I’d love some advice about shading veggies during hot weather.

Last year, throwing sheets over beds on days that were 30+ worked well.
This year we lost nearly almost everything.

I’ve been trying to read up on shadecloth, but it’s hard to get an overall idea.
I don’t want anything permanent, like a sail.
I’d like something that I could put up when the bad days start
and easily take down when it’s cooler.
I don’t know whether leaving it up for an extended period would be bad for the plants.

I don’t know anything about the different densities of shadecloth,
or whether it’s better to have it high or right on top of beds.
With sheets, having them right on top seems to conserve a bit of moisture.

OK. I think I’ve made it obvious that I don’t have a clue.
Maybe backyard veggies just aren’t going to work out at all any more and I should just give up?

Thanks for any advice, success stories or ideas.

Sorry about the “nearly almost” :-)

deadly earnest said:

I’d love some advice about shading veggies during hot weather.

Last year, throwing sheets over beds on days that were 30+ worked well.
This year we lost nearly almost everything.

I’ve been trying to read up on shadecloth, but it’s hard to get an overall idea.
I don’t want anything permanent, like a sail.
I’d like something that I could put up when the bad days start
and easily take down when it’s cooler.
I don’t know whether leaving it up for an extended period would be bad for the plants.

I don’t know anything about the different densities of shadecloth,
or whether it’s better to have it high or right on top of beds.
With sheets, having them right on top seems to conserve a bit of moisture.

OK. I think I’ve made it obvious that I don’t have a clue.
Maybe backyard veggies just aren’t going to work out at all any more and I should just give up?

Thanks for any advice, success stories or ideas.

I wouldn’t put yourself down .. You do have clues.
sheets is agood idea actually. paper straw cardboard lawn clippings anything to shade the soil is an advantage.

Yes in the case of things like tomatoes and beans.. both of which fail misearbly if the sun is too hot., shadecloth roll out over a light moveable frame will work well.

One orchid grower i know had 75% and 50% shade cloth doubled up and he said .. that should be 120% how come I still have light enough?

What RoughBarked said, keeping the root run cool is the main thing…just a temporary rough and ready structure will do the plants won’t care…

I would guess, about 3-4 feet off the ground? You will need to allow for air circulation especially on hot muggy days…if the days are windy you could throw water over the shadecloth to prevent windburn…

As to thickness, I think you would need to ask the advice of a good local hardware / gardening supplies store. don’t guess.

I think the shadecloth I use might be 75%, but we have hot sunlight from September to end April, most years…it would appear that further down south, the shadecloth is a more open weave as the sunlight is not so strong (usually)…

Thank you, roughbarked.

I’ll start working on the shadecloth idea, then.

I sort of feel that the light-coloured would work better than the green?

I have no grass to speak of, but plenty of oak leaves and bamboo leaves.
I did mulch with those last year, but this year used a commercial product—coconut fibre.
Possibly that was less effective. I don’t know.
The soil under it did seem dryer faster, but the temps were higher.
I thought that maybe the leaves might make the ground too acid if I kept using them year after year.

deadly earnest said:

Thank you, roughbarked.

I’ll start working on the shadecloth idea, then.

I sort of feel that the light-coloured would work better than the green?

I have no grass to speak of, but plenty of oak leaves and bamboo leaves.
I did mulch with those last year, but this year used a commercial product—coconut fibre.
Possibly that was less effective. I don’t know.
The soil under it did seem dryer faster, but the temps were higher.
I thought that maybe the leaves might make the ground too acid if I kept using them year after year.

Deadly, I hope you are in for the long haul on this forum…

Dinetta said:

What RoughBarked said, keeping the root run cool is the main thing…just a temporary rough and ready structure will do the plants won’t care…

I would guess, about 3-4 feet off the ground? You will need to allow for air circulation especially on hot muggy days…if the days are windy you could throw water over the shadecloth to prevent windburn…

As to thickness, I think you would need to ask the advice of a good local hardware / gardening supplies store. don’t guess.

I think the shadecloth I use might be 75%, but we have hot sunlight from September to end April, most years…it would appear that further down south, the shadecloth is a more open weave as the sunlight is not so strong (usually)…

In my summer 75% isn’t good enough for orchids. It all depends on how tight it is stretched and hwat height above the plant it is. A lot of the problems come from hot winds so shade cloth fences are good ideas to slow the movement of air and provide shade breaks.

In my summer 75% isn’t good enough for orchids.

+++++++++

That’s interesting! You learn something nearly every day here!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

It all depends on how tight it is stretched and what height above the plant it is. A lot of the problems come from hot winds so shade cloth fences are good ideas to slow the movement of air and provide shade breaks.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

And this is why they have shade- or bush- houses up here…I don’t bother (too lazy to build one) preferring to use the shade of the trees I have plus I also prefer plants that don’t need fussing when the mercury climbs…

With the orchids, do they have shadecloth all around the structure, or do they only have 3 walls, or do they have a space up top for the hot air to escape?

when you consider that orchids mostly come from cool, damp rainforests, the shade consideration makes sense…

Thee’s next door neighbour has a shadecloth “roof” on a frame permanently over his tomatoes – high enough to walk under. One side is also protected by the fence.

Thank you Dinetta.
What you say about the sunlight here—just east of Melbourne—used to be true, but things have changed horribly.
December was lovely. I used no mains water at all.
In January we had plenty of 30+ and some 40+ days.
No humidity to speak of, and no rain.
Everything turned brown and fruit shrivelled and dropped.
That happened mostly all in one day. Really awful!

Years ago I carefully selected a part of the garden that has no tree shade.
That seems to be no longer ideal.
My neighbour, always frustrated because she has too much tree shade, fared far better than I.

deadly earnest said:

Thank you Dinetta.
What you say about the sunlight here—just east of Melbourne—used to be true, but things have changed horribly.
December was lovely. I used no mains water at all.
In January we had plenty of 30+ and some 40+ days.
No humidity to speak of, and no rain.
Everything turned brown and fruit shrivelled and dropped.
That happened mostly all in one day. Really awful!

Years ago I carefully selected a part of the garden that has no tree shade.
That seems to be no longer ideal.
My neighbour, always frustrated because she has too much tree shade, fared far better than I.

I’m SE Melbourne ‘burbs. Same situation. Every thing is brown, especially in the vege patch! No rain to speak of and apparently nothing significant coming up in the next few months either. I am wondering if it will be worth planting anything for Autumn/Winter myself as without the water it is going to be difficult to keep alive. However shop supplies of fresh veg are going to be strained also what with floods, fire and drought around the country, so maybe it will be worth the extra effort for some proper fresh veg!!

Thanks, bluegreen. I have been playing with the idea of something highish, because with sheets on beds I’ve had to take them off before the bucketting act—shower water—and then put them back next day.

On the other hand, there’d probably be more room for evaporation.

High would certainly cut down on labour!

Dinetta said:

In my summer 75% isn’t good enough for orchids.

+++++++++

That’s interesting! You learn something nearly every day here!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

It all depends on how tight it is stretched and what height above the plant it is. A lot of the problems come from hot winds so shade cloth fences are good ideas to slow the movement of air and provide shade breaks.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

And this is why they have shade- or bush- houses up here…I don’t bother (too lazy to build one) preferring to use the shade of the trees I have plus I also prefer plants that don’t need fussing when the mercury climbs…

With the orchids, do they have shadecloth all around the structure, or do they only have 3 walls, or do they have a space up top for the hot air to escape?

when you consider that orchids mostly come from cool, damp rainforests, the shade consideration makes sense…

In summer here orchids would require shade all over but it depends .. if there are other walls to lean up against then these can be used as a back wall. and a heat bank for winter can get frosty too.

Every thing is brown, especially in the vege patch!
————————————————————————————————
Exactly! In the front, which is overshadowed, I haven’t watered at all, but things are hanging on.

The vegetables, hosed twice a week and bucketted most other days, are an exercise in shades of beige.

I do feel sorry for you Melburnites, your summer has been appalling…

why don’t you go for gardens in boxes for the time being? They had an article on this in the Feb issue of Gardening Australia…

I was a stryrofoam box gardener for yonks, until I finally got the front garden bed worked out…

You can move the boxes around until they find a situation that suits, and you can group them together…

I do a lot of foam box gardening. mainly seedlings and cuttings in tubes in a box but also things like salad greens can easily be grown in foam boxes. and just cut them with scissors to eat.. allow them to regrow..

Dinetta said:
Why don’t you go for gardens in boxes for the time being?
————————————————————————————————————
I have tried with pots, but I haven’t been a big success.
I have herbs in pots, and they get on very well, but anything bigger has been pretty disappointing.
I’ll try to find the article you referred to and see if I get some ideas.

It’s a shame to see the back yard go to waste, though. It’s always been such a nice part to walk in and gather food.

deadly earnest said:

Dinetta said:
Why don’t you go for gardens in boxes for the time being?
————————————————————————————————————
I have tried with pots, but I haven’t been a big success.
I have herbs in pots, and they get on very well, but anything bigger has been pretty disappointing.
I’ll try to find the article you referred to and see if I get some ideas.

It’s a shame to see the back yard go to waste, though. It’s always been such a nice part to walk in and gather food.

It is the same here.. :( My yard has always been a sight for sore eyes in a dry landscape.. but this year and for the last two or three it has been going bckwards rapidly. I have probably cut down forty trees because they were dead and full of borers. some may shoot again but only if it rains big time.

tomatoes boil one the vine and the stems and leaves burn too.

Beans wither in a day.

So as such with corn barely making it to a metre tall I am waiting for winter rains and hoping to try again.

Yes, roughbarked, the boiled tomatoes are so sad!
You say you’ll try again in cooler months. That interests me.
My gardening guide has always been a Dep Ag book from the year dot, and all the planting times must be way wrong now.
My corn was high and cobs were full—about a week before the silk should’ve shrivelled.
So should I ignore all the stuff I “know” and start experimenting?

And I’m very, very sorry about your trees, roughbarked.
That’d be far worse than one season’s veggies.

deadly earnest said:

Yes, roughbarked, the boiled tomatoes are so sad!
You say you’ll try again in cooler months. That interests me.
My gardening guide has always been a Dep Ag book from the year dot, and all the planting times must be way wrong now.
My corn was high and cobs were full—about a week before the silk should’ve shrivelled.
So should I ignore all the stuff I “know” and start experimenting?

Well DE.. In my lifetime.. there have been many years where I have had tomatoes and beans when they should have been frosted.

Other years the frosts come early. but have seed and have a plan and will travel.

All year I have some seedlings and cuttnins of the essentials growing in foam boxes in a shadier place usually under a tree that also needs the water.. until a weather break happens. I will shove out whatever plants I have potted up and hardened off .. so that if the seaon is kind.. I haven’t wasted my time.

deadly earnest said:

And I’m very, very sorry about your trees, roughbarked.
That’d be far worse than one season’s veggies.

I usually have more trees growing in tubes somewhere in the yard.. awaiting a weather break.. so i ca plant them out. ;)

as long as I can still do the work.. it will be allright in the long run.

OK! I’ll give it a go, roughbarked.
I’ll start some seeds now and wait for the temps to go down and stay down, then plant out and see what happens.

I feel encouraged. Thank you!

And thanks to everyone who offered info. I have a lot more ideas to go on and also it’s good to know that others are wrestling with the same frustrations.

deadly earnest said:

OK! I’ll give it a go, roughbarked.
I’ll start some seeds now and wait for the temps to go down and stay down, then plant out and see what happens.

I feel encouraged. Thank you!

And thanks to everyone who offered info. I have a lot more ideas to go on and also it’s good to know that others are wrestling with the same frustrations.

Also.. have a look at existing tmatoes and other plants.. see if they do have or are trying tomake.. new shoots at the base.. cut away all the dead brown stuff and pour whatever water and love you have into those.. you may get a harvest of a sort yet. if the weather breaks.

have a look at existing tmatoes and other plants.. see if they do have or are trying tomake.. new shoots at the base
———————————————————————————————
Oh, that’s a splendid thought, and I’ve had a demonstration already.
Two young currant plants looked quite dead, but have now sprouted little green bits with some leaves.
I wouldn’t‘ve considered thinking that was a possibility with tomatoes.

deadly earnest said:

have a look at existing tmatoes and other plants.. see if they do have or are trying tomake.. new shoots at the base
———————————————————————————————
Oh, that’s a splendid thought, and I’ve had a demonstration already.
Two young currant plants looked quite dead, but have now sprouted little green bits with some leaves.
I wouldn’t‘ve considered thinking that was a possibility with tomatoes.

It can be done with tomatoes. all plants love being pruned at the right time.. so yes don’t do it in the hot sun nor without additional care, water etc. but everything in your home garden is worth every effort you can put into it. Sometimes that ends up in you scrapping the whole bed rebuilding it and planning a winter garden for it./
Some spots in the yard will be better for summer others better for winter.

g’day deadly ernest – we love questions here – so welcome.

i’m not using shade material and on the hottest days my pumpkins and toms just frazzled.
however my corn, watermelon, dwarf beans and herbs grew well in the same temps.
probably many crops will withstand the heat provided -

- the soil is fertile, thickly mulched and damp
- the garden is sheltered from the worst winds (north winds mainly here)
- the leaves are toughened with fortnightly seaweed foliant spray
- the plants are sunlovers in the first place.

pepe said:

g’day deadly ernest – we love questions here – so welcome.

i’m not using shade material and on the hottest days my pumpkins and toms just frazzled.
however my corn, watermelon, dwarf beans and herbs grew well in the same temps.
probably many crops will withstand the heat provided -

- the soil is fertile, thickly mulched and damp
- the garden is sheltered from the worst winds (north winds mainly here)
- the leaves are toughened with fortnightly seaweed foliant spray
- the plants are sunlovers in the first place.

all good advice pepe..
um.. I suppose it should be pointed out that careful thought in layout of garden acording to solar paths and hot spots.. by planting shelter rows of say corn to protect other, softer plants. The only problem with that is that you have to have the water for the corn.. ;)

sorghum acts as agreat shelter plant on less water than corn. Can be cut as mulch as well.

All good advice. I can’t add anything to that. But it got me thinking too with how to save my mini orchard from one day scorchers that wipe the fruit out.
I was thinking possibly a shade sail , a sort that I can take the sail off for most of the year, and add it when extreme heat is expected. Or a sort of frame where I can thread shadecloth on with eyelets, roll and tie the thing back under the eve when not needed.. hmmm.

Hi pepe. Thanks for the welcome.

I can attend to all that you say except for wind. That’s been pretty fierce on several days and I can’t see that I could do much about it.

I did dig in bags of manure in spring, but you wouldn’t know that now. The soil has become fine grey dust.

Interestingly, some peppers that were put in at the same time as the tomatoes, and in the same bed, took ages to get going, but are now green and fresh and have a couple of fruit. I thought maybe the taller tomatoes had somehow given them some protection, even though they’re spaced out and get the same amount of sun. I wonder if it was the wind, then, rather than the sun, that did the most damage.

deadly earnest said:

Hi pepe. Thanks for the welcome.

I can attend to all that you say except for wind. That’s been pretty fierce on several days and I can’t see that I could do much about it.

I did dig in bags of manure in spring, but you wouldn’t know that now. The soil has become fine grey dust.

Interestingly, some peppers that were put in at the same time as the tomatoes, and in the same bed, took ages to get going, but are now green and fresh and have a couple of fruit. I thought maybe the taller tomatoes had somehow given them some protection, even though they’re spaced out and get the same amount of sun. I wonder if it was the wind, then, rather than the sun, that did the most damage.

My mother in law said once that the wind dries washing on the line faster and better than a hot sunny day, and I thought “oH! come on!” but I have been paying attention and she is right. A good stiff breeze on a cloudy day will dry your laundry better than during a still, hot sultry fine day…

Bit Off Topic I know but the point is there: wind dries and sometimes you don’t realize this until the next day when your lovely green leaves are still green but crumble in your fingers…

Happy Potter said:

All good advice. I can’t add anything to that. But it got me thinking too with how to save my mini orchard from one day scorchers that wipe the fruit out.
I was thinking possibly a shade sail , a sort that I can take the sail off for most of the year, and add it when extreme heat is expected. Or a sort of frame where I can thread shadecloth on with eyelets, roll and tie the thing back under the eve when not needed.. hmmm.

Yes. there are many ways to achieve such contraptions.. a solid foundation framework can be set down.. with concretefoundations posts laid out to accept a modular bush house frame.. set bolts into these in ground concrete posts and drop your frame on and bolt it down for the duration of that bed’s crops. The wind does not bugger everything up this way.

Another is to build a frame on wheels.. one where the shade is clipped on.. and rolled off so that the lot can be disassembled and put away during winter. In fact the clip on method is good for any standard frame. bolted, wheeled or otherwise.

A portable frame.. rigid but easy to carry and move is als a fine idea.. can be made from light materials say poly pipe and clip on shade.. just make sure you have it weighted down .. same with the wheeled contraption above.

Wind can be nasty. We had a wheeled contraption big enough for a team of grafters to be budding trees under. the wind picked it up and threw it over the nursery landing upsde down on several rows of trees each time it rolled over.

roughbarked said:

Wind can be nasty. We had a wheeled contraption big enough for a team of grafters to be budding trees under. the wind picked it up and threw it over the nursery landing upsde down on several rows of trees each time it rolled over.

oooh, that was nasty!

deadly earnest said:

Hi pepe. Thanks for the welcome.

I can attend to all that you say except for wind. That’s been pretty fierce on several days and I can’t see that I could do much about it.

I did dig in bags of manure in spring, but you wouldn’t know that now. The soil has become fine grey dust.

Interestingly, some peppers that were put in at the same time as the tomatoes, and in the same bed, took ages to get going, but are now green and fresh and have a couple of fruit. I thought maybe the taller tomatoes had somehow given them some protection, even though they’re spaced out and get the same amount of sun. I wonder if it was the wind, then, rather than the sun, that did the most damage.

peppers.. we call them capsicums .. are hardier than tomatoes by a long shot.

deadly earnest said:

Hi pepe. Thanks for the welcome. I can attend to all that you say except for wind. That’s been pretty fierce on several days and I can’t see that I could do much about it. I did dig in bags of manure in spring, but you wouldn’t know that now. The soil has become fine grey dust.
Interestingly, some peppers that were put in at the same time as the tomatoes, and in the same bed, took ages to get going, but are now green and fresh and have a couple of fruit. I thought maybe the taller tomatoes had somehow given them some protection, even though they’re spaced out and get the same amount of sun. I wonder if it was the wind, then, rather than the sun, that did the most damage.

you write well – were you a member of the old ABC forum?
yes my capsicums are ok too – as are the eggplants.
my soil is clayrock and nothing short of a totally soaking will revive it. so i can’t possibly plant anything untill the rain comes.
the hot north wind and the whistling westerlies are absolutely deadly to most plants and will dwarf them if it doesn’t break and dry them out. my beans and zuchini are totally protected by sheds to the west and several layers of trees to the north. the beans, zuchini and watermelon all self shade their own roots when they reach naturity.

pepe said:

deadly earnest said:

Hi pepe. Thanks for the welcome. I can attend to all that you say except for wind. That’s been pretty fierce on several days and I can’t see that I could do much about it. I did dig in bags of manure in spring, but you wouldn’t know that now. The soil has become fine grey dust.
Interestingly, some peppers that were put in at the same time as the tomatoes, and in the same bed, took ages to get going, but are now green and fresh and have a couple of fruit. I thought maybe the taller tomatoes had somehow given them some protection, even though they’re spaced out and get the same amount of sun. I wonder if it was the wind, then, rather than the sun, that did the most damage.

you write well – were you a member of the old ABC forum?
yes my capsicums are ok too – as are the eggplants.
my soil is clayrock and nothing short of a totally soaking will revive it. so i can’t possibly plant anything untill the rain comes.
the hot north wind and the whistling westerlies are absolutely deadly to most plants and will dwarf them if it doesn’t break and dry them out. my beans and zuchini are totally protected by sheds to the west and several layers of trees to the north. the beans, zuchini and watermelon all self shade their own roots when they reach naturity.

es it is pleasurable to read well written work.

We are all in the same bot by the way. Our water table was seen to be a serious problem back between ’85 and ’90. Yet that was when I could grow a great garden with little water. From Jan 91 to today it has done nothing other than disappear further away.. gone completely.. Deadly Earnest talks of grey dust.. pepe talks of dry clayrock.. I have calcrete .. scads of it. I garden on top of the fine white clay that breaks down to.. All my decades of mulch.. beautiful moist mulch that once held at least 50mm of water.. is now dust.

you write well – were you a member of the old ABC forum?
——————————————————————————————————————
Thank you. No, I couldn’t find my way around it very well.

yes my capsicums are ok too – as are the eggplants.
——————————————————————————————————
My eggplants are healthy but not very advanced. I’d been using worm water and the directions say not to use it when high temps are expected—which means they’ve had no tucker for a long time.

i can’t possibly plant anything untill the rain comes.
—————————————————————————————————————
So far the forecasts are not encouraging.

my beans and zuchini are totally protected ———————————————————————————— Those were first to go here. Obviously the wind had a lot to do with it, then. The zucchini looked almost frost-bitten. They had lots of leaves and had already produced quite a lot of good fruit and then they were dead in one day.

Cucumbers struggled on, but produced fruit the size of ping-pong balls.

Happy Potter said:

All good advice. I can’t add anything to that. But it got me thinking too with how to save my mini orchard from one day scorchers that wipe the fruit out.
I was thinking possibly a shade sail , a sort that I can take the sail off for most of the year, and add it when extreme heat is expected. Or a sort of frame where I can thread shadecloth on with eyelets, roll and tie the thing back under the eve when not needed.. hmmm.

something that you can roll back under the eaves sounds good (if only I were that clever)

deadly earnest said:

My eggplants are healthy but not very advanced. I’d been using worm water and the directions say not to use it when high temps are expected—which means they’ve had no tucker for a long time.

I’ve never heard of that before – I wonder what the reasoning behind it is? If anything, I give my garden more worm wee than usual when the weather’s hot, I just wait until late evening to apply it. I would rather do it early morning, but I can’t fit any gardening in before work.

bon008 said:

deadly earnest said:

My eggplants are healthy but not very advanced. I’d been using worm water and the directions say not to use it when high temps are expected—which means they’ve had no tucker for a long time.

I’ve never heard of that before – I wonder what the reasoning behind it is? If anything, I give my garden more worm wee than usual when the weather’s hot, I just wait until late evening to apply it. I would rather do it early morning, but I can’t fit any gardening in before work.

I agree Bon do it in the late evening or early morning.. and.. water it in with fresh water if you have any..

deadly earnest said:

Interestingly, some peppers that were put in at the same time as the tomatoes, and in the same bed, took ages to get going, but are now green and fresh and have a couple of fruit. I thought maybe the taller tomatoes had somehow given them some protection, even though they’re spaced out and get the same amount of sun. I wonder if it was the wind, then, rather than the sun, that did the most damage.

generally speaking peppers like hotter weather than tomatoes although they are related, so they get going later and will thrive in hotter weather. But even the sun lovers have limits!!

Cucumbers struggled on, but produced fruit the size of ping-pong balls.
————
it all sounds familiar.
rather than worm wee you can place fertiliser pellets (rooster booster $12 for 25 kilos here at present) on the soil, add mulch and water in. that seems to strengthen plants.

the old forum i was referring to was prior to the new ‘message board’ ( which we all agree is as dull as dishwater).

roughbarked said:

bon008 said:

deadly earnest said:

My eggplants are healthy but not very advanced. I’d been using worm water and the directions say not to use it when high temps are expected—which means they’ve had no tucker for a long time.

I’ve never heard of that before – I wonder what the reasoning behind it is? If anything, I give my garden more worm wee than usual when the weather’s hot, I just wait until late evening to apply it. I would rather do it early morning, but I can’t fit any gardening in before work.

I agree Bon do it in the late evening or early morning.. and.. water it in with fresh water if you have any..

I usually dilute it to a “weak tea” colour – think I picked up that rule of thumb from a GA presenter??

bluegreen said:

Happy Potter said:

All good advice. I can’t add anything to that. But it got me thinking too with how to save my mini orchard from one day scorchers that wipe the fruit out.
I was thinking possibly a shade sail , a sort that I can take the sail off for most of the year, and add it when extreme heat is expected. Or a sort of frame where I can thread shadecloth on with eyelets, roll and tie the thing back under the eve when not needed.. hmmm.

something that you can roll back under the eaves sounds good (if only I were that clever)

My mother used roll up blinds made of hessian.. long before shadecloth was invented.

bon008 said:

roughbarked said:

bon008 said:

deadly earnest said:

My eggplants are healthy but not very advanced. I’d been using worm water and the directions say not to use it when high temps are expected—which means they’ve had no tucker for a long time.

I’ve never heard of that before – I wonder what the reasoning behind it is? If anything, I give my garden more worm wee than usual when the weather’s hot, I just wait until late evening to apply it. I would rather do it early morning, but I can’t fit any gardening in before work.

I agree Bon do it in the late evening or early morning.. and.. water it in with fresh water if you have any..

I usually dilute it to a “weak tea” colour – think I picked up that rule of thumb from a GA presenter??

Weak tea is correct yeah..

weekly dose of weak tea is recommended ;)

I think the idea of a sail over fruit trees sounds good, Happy Potter.
It should make a huge difference.

Oh, thank you very much, bon008.

I was given a second-hand worm farm without an instruction sheet. Looked for directions on the web and obviously paid attention to the wrong page. Well, now I know!

deadly earnest said:

I think the idea of a sail over fruit trees sounds good, Happy Potter.
It should make a huge difference.

Sails are the same as the clip on shade cloth whichyou would have to make up otr get someone to make.. in that you can unclip and reclip.. even in differing positions.. The unboltable poles I mentioned earlier can be useful also to save on poles and.. to be able to put them out of the weather when not needed so that the garden looks prettier. ;)

deadly earnest said:

I think the idea of a sail over fruit trees sounds good, Happy Potter.
It should make a huge difference.

Yes it sounds good, the dozen fruit trees (more to come in this 6 mt by 5 mt bed ) are all dwarf ,so anything I build would be permanant.
Only problem hubby said, is the wind. The bed is north facing and the structure would have to tolerate northerly gale force winds. He is thinking instead of a soild sailcloth the woven shadecloth might be better. Not something we could build ourselves he said.
Oh and welcome by the way, Deadly Earnest :)

(that show used to give me nightmares when I was little lol)

deadly earnest said:

Oh, thank you very much, bon008.

I was given a second-hand worm farm without an instruction sheet. Looked for directions on the web and obviously paid attention to the wrong page. Well, now I know!

Oh most of us here have worms LOL.
ask anything.

Happy Potter said:

deadly earnest said:

Oh, thank you very much, bon008.

I was given a second-hand worm farm without an instruction sheet. Looked for directions on the web and obviously paid attention to the wrong page. Well, now I know!

Oh most of us here have worms LOL.
ask anything.

Yeh, I certainly don’t claim to be any kind of expert :) Usually my knowledge is a bit less relevant than everyone else’s, because my worm farm at home is used to process dog poop, so it runs a bit differently than the normal kind. But I’m getting better with the food scraps system too, as we have two of them running at work.

roughbarked said:

deadly earnest said:

I think the idea of a sail over fruit trees sounds good, Happy Potter.
It should make a huge difference.

Sails are the same as the clip on shade cloth whichyou would have to make up otr get someone to make.. in that you can unclip and reclip.. even in differing positions.. The unboltable poles I mentioned earlier can be useful also to save on poles and.. to be able to put them out of the weather when not needed so that the garden looks prettier. ;)

Thanks Rough B too, I’m taking notes on all this :)

Happy Potter said:

deadly earnest said:

I think the idea of a sail over fruit trees sounds good, Happy Potter.
It should make a huge difference.

Yes it sounds good, the dozen fruit trees (more to come in this 6 mt by 5 mt bed ) are all dwarf ,so anything I build would be permanant.
Only problem hubby said, is the wind. The bed is north facing and the structure would have to tolerate northerly gale force winds. He is thinking instead of a soild sailcloth the woven shadecloth might be better. Not something we could build ourselves he said.
Oh and welcome by the way, Deadly Earnest :)

(that show used to give me nightmares when I was little lol)

yeah.. where’s my manners .. welcome Deadly Earnest ;)

if you have fruit trees which are permanent.. then a few blocks of concrete with bolts sticking up thrown in to the ground in strategic positions can have a sturdy post with a flat plate welded on bottom holes dilled to accept bolts(use a template so they fit each post or place the bolts in concrete by the one template,.. so they are interchangeable..) This sturdy post will resist wind.. and the resyt is about angle to he wind and if your sail or shade has eyelets.. enough and postioins on posts enough.. such angles may be alterable on the day.

^ only caveat to that plan is that the bolts in the concrete will have to be well covered from weather.. and bare feet.. when not covered by a pole..

roughbarked said:

^ only caveat to that plan is that the bolts in the concrete will have to be well covered from weather.. and bare feet.. when not covered by a pole..

in fact.. by writing(in places badly.. but it is my keyboard that makes the smelling pistakes) ;) I have welded a plan in mind for repairing a section of my yard which has fallen into dissuse.. partly or mostly due to the cost of town water..
There exists a bushouse within this area which is indeed bolted to above mentioned in ground concrete piers. At present it has been overgrown by the walnut tree I grafted and moved so I could put the bushhouse there(originally for orchids).
Adjacent to that is a recycled ware glasshouse(old window frames) of which most of the wood has rotted away. In front(northern side) is completely full of a sunken tube nursery.. still intact just unused.
Possibilities exist to use rainwater off shed to help with water supply and strategically placed concrete piers to move the one existing shade house.. around on the one patch.. just divide it into quarters with the concrete piers.. Thanks guys it is always great to use one’s brain. ;)

(that show used to give me nightmares when I was little lol)
———————————————————————————————————————
Oh dear! I just googled “Deadly Earnest”. I didn’t know there had been a tv show called that.
When I was little the scary show was “The Creaking Door” on steam radio.

One orchid grower i know had 75% and 50% shade cloth doubled up and he said .. that should be 120% how come I still have light enough?

Now that’s a thought. That must be why they don’t make a 100% shade cloth. Stuff won’t grow in the dark. LOL.

Dinetta said:

In my summer 75% isn’t good enough for orchids.

+++++++++

That’s interesting! You learn something nearly every day here!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

It all depends on how tight it is stretched and what height above the plant it is. A lot of the problems come from hot winds so shade cloth fences are good ideas to slow the movement of air and provide shade breaks.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

And this is why they have shade- or bush- houses up here…I don’t bother (too lazy to build one) preferring to use the shade of the trees I have plus I also prefer plants that don’t need fussing when the mercury climbs…

With the orchids, do they have shadecloth all around the structure, or do they only have 3 walls, or do they have a space up top for the hot air to escape?

when you consider that orchids mostly come from cool, damp rainforests, the shade consideration makes sense…

Damp, shade maybe but a lot of rainforests are thickly humid as well. Probably depends on the type of orchid.

deadly earnest said:

Thank you Dinetta.
What you say about the sunlight here—just east of Melbourne—used to be true, but things have changed horribly.
December was lovely. I used no mains water at all.
In January we had plenty of 30+ and some 40+ days.
No humidity to speak of, and no rain.
Everything turned brown and fruit shrivelled and dropped.
That happened mostly all in one day. Really awful!

Years ago I carefully selected a part of the garden that has no tree shade.
That seems to be no longer ideal.
My neighbour, always frustrated because she has too much tree shade, fared far better than I.

This gardening obsession we all seem to have can be a right pain in the butt can’t it? One season you can get it all spot on. The next season things turn upside down and your back to square one again. And what do we do? We try again the next year and pray.

roughbarked said:

deadly earnest said:

OK! I’ll give it a go, roughbarked.
I’ll start some seeds now and wait for the temps to go down and stay down, then plant out and see what happens.

I feel encouraged. Thank you!

And thanks to everyone who offered info. I have a lot more ideas to go on and also it’s good to know that others are wrestling with the same frustrations.

Also.. have a look at existing tmatoes and other plants.. see if they do have or are trying tomake.. new shoots at the base.. cut away all the dead brown stuff and pour whatever water and love you have into those.. you may get a harvest of a sort yet. if the weather breaks.

That’s what I’m doing. My tomato plants fried when the fruit was only little, I put shade cloth up but too late I fear. I got only a small harvest of mini fruit. Mine are in pots still from the house move. I didn’t want to disturb them by planting them out – by the time I’d prepared a suitable bed they were too established in their pots. I pruned off all the dead brown foliage and have Seasoled and aquarium watered the remaining green lateral shoots, which are looking healthy and green but so far stubbornly refusing to bear flowers. I had just about given up on them ‘til I read this advice, Thanks Roughbarked.

Deadly Earnest, you’re not the only one struggling believe me. I was starting to think I suck at growing edibles! But I’m going to keep trying, keep learning and keep experimenting. I’ve kept a few tommies so hopefully they’ll perform better in the ground, I must admit in past years I’ve always found growing tomatoes a good ‘beginner’ task so this year has been a bit of an eye opener for me.

roughbarked said:

pepe said:

deadly earnest said:

Hi pepe. Thanks for the welcome. I can attend to all that you say except for wind. That’s been pretty fierce on several days and I can’t see that I could do much about it. I did dig in bags of manure in spring, but you wouldn’t know that now. The soil has become fine grey dust.
Interestingly, some peppers that were put in at the same time as the tomatoes, and in the same bed, took ages to get going, but are now green and fresh and have a couple of fruit. I thought maybe the taller tomatoes had somehow given them some protection, even though they’re spaced out and get the same amount of sun. I wonder if it was the wind, then, rather than the sun, that did the most damage.

you write well – were you a member of the old ABC forum?
yes my capsicums are ok too – as are the eggplants.
my soil is clayrock and nothing short of a totally soaking will revive it. so i can’t possibly plant anything untill the rain comes.
the hot north wind and the whistling westerlies are absolutely deadly to most plants and will dwarf them if it doesn’t break and dry them out. my beans and zuchini are totally protected by sheds to the west and several layers of trees to the north. the beans, zuchini and watermelon all self shade their own roots when they reach naturity.

es it is pleasurable to read well written work.

We are all in the same bot by the way. Our water table was seen to be a serious problem back between ’85 and ’90. Yet that was when I could grow a great garden with little water. From Jan 91 to today it has done nothing other than disappear further away.. gone completely.. Deadly Earnest talks of grey dust.. pepe talks of dry clayrock.. I have calcrete .. scads of it. I garden on top of the fine white clay that breaks down to.. All my decades of mulch.. beautiful moist mulch that once held at least 50mm of water.. is now dust.

I have sand, not soil, not dust, but sand. Keeps things interesting. :)