In light of the SSM debates and with AFL supporting yes veruy openly and warmly, it was interesting to hear discussion on this on Gruen last week. We only watched it last night. Todd Sampson had suggested that the discussion is vitally important to take place about people on the field. By that he was referring to gay and lesbian people coming out.

A friend turned to me and said “you used to play footy. How would you have felt about getting changed next to someone attracted to your sex if you aren’t the same way inclined?”

And I think my teen – twenty something me would have been okay with it, but I’m not really sure. I imagine the average woman in a mixed touch football team being comfortable changing in front of men in the same team – and rightly so.

Is male male change rooms different when one is gay and one straight? Could a straight guy feel potentially violated by having a gay person stare at them when changing? I imagine some men’s egos would love it, but some more gentle souls would not. Likewise with women women dressing rooms.

How should this be tackled by the major codes if players start coming out and some straight players aren’t comfortable with it? I think this might become a more serious debate in time as people become more open and assertive about their sexuality at a younger age?

What is PC for the more reserved people who might feel intimidated by having to change with someone who might ogle them?

I’m guessing some women may say it’s about time men got a taste of their own medicine, but it may affect women, too.

I really can’t type.

“I imagine the average woman in a mixed touch football team being comfortable changing in front of men in the same team – and rightly so.”

= I can’t imagine the average woman in a mixed touch football team being comfortable changing in front of men in the same team – and rightly so.

>Is male male change rooms different when one is gay and one straight?

I’d imagine it depends on the individuals. As a (gay) high school student I didn’t like having to change and shower with the other boys, but managed to find a more private area of the changing shed, where I was later joined by another boy who had similar reservations.

Because of this (and because we disliked sport) one of the nasty PE teachers often referred to us as “you two girls”.

No out AFL players yet but homosexuals have been accepted in the army since 1992. IME camaraderie trumps uncomfortable feelings when it comes to close-knit groups like team sports.

Bubblecar said:

Because of this (and because we disliked sport) one of the nasty PE teachers often referred to us as “you two girls”.

That must have been tough. You seem like a gentle soul and maybe at that time didn’t have the coping skills to fire off a few remarks back to the teacher. I had a mate in early high school who was a big unit for his age. A teacher always referred to him as “big moose.” That spread like wide fire and everyone just asumed because he was a big guy he could handle the name… He didn’t handle it well at all.

Witty Rejoinder said:

IME camaraderie trumps uncomfortable feelings when it comes to close-knit groups like team sports.

So would mixed teams be okay with unisex shower rooms?

Witty Rejoinder said:

No out AFL players yet but homosexuals have been accepted in the army since 1992. IME camaraderie trumps uncomfortable feelings when it comes to close-knit groups like team sports.

Maybe not publicly, but I am sure there have been plenty of gay footballers and most of their team-mates would have known it.

stan101 said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

IME camaraderie trumps uncomfortable feelings when it comes to close-knit groups like team sports.

So would mixed teams be okay with unisex shower rooms?

No. I can’t see much ogling happening in single-sex showers even when some are gay. I wouldn’t say the same for unisex showers.

party_pants said:

Maybe not publicly, but I am sure there have been plenty of gay footballers and most of their team-mates would have known it.

Aye.

I’m not comfortable with this assumption that if you are a gay male then you want to be with all men, gay or not, and won’t be able to control yourself in the presence of other men, especially when it’s in a dressing room for a sport.

I might be totally wrong here, but surely the rules of attraction still apply, as do the rules of rejection on approach.

I don’t see too many of any sexual orientation forcing themselves on those who reject them.. or throwing themselves at anyone who is of their preferred attraction gender. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, but it’s pretty rare.

• I don’t see too many of any sexual orientation forcing themselves on those who reject them..

I don’t think the question is about people forcing themselves on others. It is about changing in front of people. For example, would you play a mixed sport and then shower and change and all that in front of your name team mates?

• your name team mates?

Where “name” should be “male”…

Arts said:

I’m not comfortable with this assumption that if you are a gay male then you want to be with all men, gay or not, and won’t be able to control yourself in the presence of other men, especially when it’s in a dressing room for a sport.

I’m not sure that assumption is coming from this thread. Where is that assumption coming from?

But I am reasonably confident the majority of women would not be comfortable undressing in the change rooms with male players present because men would be accused of wandering eyes or ogling. If that is the case why would gay men in same sex change rooms not be capable of oggling also?

And if that is the case, how would hetro men feel about being perved on?

furious said:

• I don’t see too many of any sexual orientation forcing themselves on those who reject them..

I don’t think the question is about people forcing themselves on others. It is about changing in front of people. For example, would you play a mixed sport and then shower and change and all that in front of your name team mates?

sure, during my first life career I participated in a number of low budget plays where we had to change in front of our cast mates all the time… it never occurred to me that it is a problem

stan101 said:

And if that is the case, how would hetro men feel about being perved on?

that’s my point.. are they being ‘perved’ on? are they really?

to be fair, i can’t answer… as a relatively straight hetero female.

We would have to ask the homosexual contingent of the forum if they do actually perv on the straight males in their team sport locker room and then the hetero contingent if they feel intimidated or uncomfortable by this.

I know that they are there to do a ‘job’ (where job = plays sport)

does the hetero female physio in the changeroom perv on the players?

Arts said:

to be fair, i can’t answer… as a relatively straight hetero female.

We would have to ask the homosexual contingent of the forum if they do actually perv on the straight males in their team sport locker room and then the hetero contingent if they feel intimidated or uncomfortable by this.

I know that they are there to do a ‘job’ (where job = plays sport)

does the hetero female physio in the changeroom perv on the players?

Arts said:

stan101 said:

And if that is the case, how would hetro men feel about being perved on?

that’s my point.. are they being ‘perved’ on? are they really?

Men are men. Straight or gay.

And I too have been in the odd theatre restaurant and melodrama. I never recall any of the cast or ensemble being fully naked and showering in good lighting when changing in the wings.

Men are men. Straight or gay. How many women would be comfortable showering in front of men in a change room?

Witty Rejoinder said:

stan101 said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

IME camaraderie trumps uncomfortable feelings when it comes to close-knit groups like team sports.

So would mixed teams be okay with unisex shower rooms?

No. I can’t see much ogling happening in single-sex showers even when some are gay. I wouldn’t say the same for unisex showers.

What’s the difference? Are you saying straight men are ogglers yet gay men aren’t? I am really and truly trying to understand this but I can’t. When I was in the dating scene and going out a lot, most of the gay men we would meet socially with other friends could hold their own in the bawdy talk and ‘ratings systems’ in play in that environment.

Why would it be different in unisex?

Arts said:

to be fair, i can’t answer… as a relatively straight hetero female.

We would have to ask the homosexual contingent of the forum if they do actually perv on the straight males in their team sport locker room and then the hetero contingent if they feel intimidated or uncomfortable by this.

I know that they are there to do a ‘job’ (where job = plays sport)

does the hetero female physio in the changeroom perv on the players?

Yes, they do the job on the paddock. Then after the game, there is the beer, the talk and the usual carry on..

Of the one female physio I know who was working for a super rugby club, she often regaled some stories about the locker room when talk turned in that direction. small sample set.

But Arts, if you were in a room with 5 women and 7 guys in full light would you be comfortable being naked and walking around?

stan101 said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

stan101 said:

So would mixed teams be okay with unisex shower rooms?

No. I can’t see much ogling happening in single-sex showers even when some are gay. I wouldn’t say the same for unisex showers.

What’s the difference? Are you saying straight men are ogglers yet gay men aren’t? I am really and truly trying to understand this but I can’t. When I was in the dating scene and going out a lot, most of the gay men we would meet socially with other friends could hold their own in the bawdy talk and ‘ratings systems’ in play in that environment.

Why would it be different in unisex?

I think bathroom etiquette is a learned response so that is why gay men in showers don’t stare at other men. If bathrooms suddenly became unisex men might not be able to resist staring but if bathrooms had always been that way men would learn not to stare.

Witty Rejoinder said:

No out AFL players yet but homosexuals have been accepted in the army since 1992. IME camaraderie trumps uncomfortable feelings when it comes to close-knit groups like team sports.

there is this… but in my experience footy changing rooms aren’t really the sexiest of places either…

stan I think you may have watched Porky’s a few too many times…

Perhaps most gay men are less likely to perv at other men getting changed as either they don’t want to be outed, or they are out and don’t perv as it’s the decent thing to do as it may make their team mates uncomfortable and outright perving is not usually socially acceptable gay or not. Of course you may get gay men who do perv but they may just not be nice people and them being gay is irrelevant

There have been openly gay Australian rules players (inc Jason Ball) but not at the AFL level.

this conversation started as how would straight men react to a gay man in a changing room..

it wouldn’t worry me to change in front of a homosexual female.

I wouldn’t worry me to change in front of males who are on a sporting team with me

It does worry me that stan thinks men can’t or won’t control themselves in this situation

At the maritime school there was a female in the barracks, at first there was a sign that flipped over on the SAL but that didn’t work, blokes all waiting for a shower and morning routine whilst one female did her stuff, eventually a solution arose, she had the last shower stall so no one had to walk past hers (she eventually ended up personalising it) and a bit of common dog with wearing towels whilst standing at the sinks shaving.

As I indicated in my earlier post, far from “ogling” anyone, many gay men would feel quite self-conscious in such situations.

But as others have pointed out, professional sports people are well accustomed to changing together without any problems arising.

Arts said:

this conversation started as how would straight men react to a gay man in a changing room..

it wouldn’t worry me to change in front of a homosexual female.

I wouldn’t worry me to change in front of males who are on a sporting team with me

It does worry me that stan thinks men can’t or won’t control themselves in this situation

Trying not to be crude but I think OP’s line of reasoning is that a gay man in the locker rooms might get aroused, and his team mates would notice it.

Bubblecar said:

As I indicated in my earlier post, far from “ogling” anyone, many gay men would feel quite self-conscious in such situations.

But as others have pointed out, professional sports people are well accustomed to changing together without any problems arising.

Would men get changed quickly so the wang visibility time is small or would they walk around swinging it about so the wang visibility time is high and open to more perving

Bubblecar said:

As I indicated in my earlier post, far from “ogling” anyone, many gay men would feel quite self-conscious in such situations.

But as others have pointed out, professional sports people are well accustomed to changing together without any problems arising.

you mean the guys aren’t frolicking around flicking each others with towels??

Bubblecar said:

>Is male male change rooms different when one is gay and one straight?

I’d imagine it depends on the individuals. As a (gay) high school student I didn’t like having to change and shower with the other boys, but managed to find a more private area of the changing shed, where I was later joined by another boy who had similar reservations.

Because of this (and because we disliked sport) one of the nasty PE teachers often referred to us as “you two girls”.

Bubblecar, this is a personal question and I will understand if you don’t answer it. I am asking because in light of the current debate I’m hearing a lot about how gays are constantly discriminated against and it’s something I (as a straight person) don’t really see happening all that much. I know people who are gay, I see them interacting with other people and in general I just don’t see examples of homophobia other than extremely rarely.

My question to you, based on the PE teacher referring to you as a “girl” in high school, were you offended or angered or anything when people here were teasing you for having bought a “girl’s bike”? Like, is there a connection in your mind between the high school stuff and stuff that happens these days?

When I saw your post about the PE teacher, my first impulse was to write a post teasing you about the long hair and the girls bike. But then I thought “Wait, what if this is one of those microaggression things or what if I am actually being, in some way, homophobic towards Bubblecar by typing something like this to him.” Is it and would I have been?

esselte said:

Bubblecar said:

>Is male male change rooms different when one is gay and one straight?

I’d imagine it depends on the individuals. As a (gay) high school student I didn’t like having to change and shower with the other boys, but managed to find a more private area of the changing shed, where I was later joined by another boy who had similar reservations.

Because of this (and because we disliked sport) one of the nasty PE teachers often referred to us as “you two girls”.

Bubblecar, this is a personal question and I will understand if you don’t answer it. I am asking because in light of the current debate I’m hearing a lot about how gays are constantly discriminated against and it’s something I (as a straight person) don’t really see happening all that much. I know people who are gay, I see them interacting with other people and in general I just don’t see examples of homophobia other than extremely rarely.

My question to you, based on the PE teacher referring to you as a “girl” in high school, were you offended or angered or anything when people here were teasing you for having bought a “girl’s bike”? Like, is there a connection in your mind between the high school stuff and stuff that happens these days?

When I saw your post about the PE teacher, my first impulse was to write a post teasing you about the long hair and the girls bike. But then I thought “Wait, what if this is one of those microaggression things or what if I am actually being, in some way, homophobic towards Bubblecar by typing something like this to him.” Is it and would I have been?

The thing I don’t understand is how people can’t see the blatant discrimination that is leveled against LGBTIQ people

diddly-squat said:

esselte said:

Bubblecar said:

>Is male male change rooms different when one is gay and one straight?

I’d imagine it depends on the individuals. As a (gay) high school student I didn’t like having to change and shower with the other boys, but managed to find a more private area of the changing shed, where I was later joined by another boy who had similar reservations.

Because of this (and because we disliked sport) one of the nasty PE teachers often referred to us as “you two girls”.

Bubblecar, this is a personal question and I will understand if you don’t answer it. I am asking because in light of the current debate I’m hearing a lot about how gays are constantly discriminated against and it’s something I (as a straight person) don’t really see happening all that much. I know people who are gay, I see them interacting with other people and in general I just don’t see examples of homophobia other than extremely rarely.

My question to you, based on the PE teacher referring to you as a “girl” in high school, were you offended or angered or anything when people here were teasing you for having bought a “girl’s bike”? Like, is there a connection in your mind between the high school stuff and stuff that happens these days?

When I saw your post about the PE teacher, my first impulse was to write a post teasing you about the long hair and the girls bike. But then I thought “Wait, what if this is one of those microaggression things or what if I am actually being, in some way, homophobic towards Bubblecar by typing something like this to him.” Is it and would I have been?

The thing I don’t understand is how people can’t see the blatant discrimination that is leveled against LGBTIQ people

I suppose it might come down to who you hang out with, I work in the public service and can’t say I’ve noticed any discrimination against the above, it’s just a non issue, friends have no issue and my children either, parents and inlaws I am not sure and don’t ask

diddly-squat said:

eople can’t see the blatant discrimination that is leveled against LGBTIQ people

I do see discrimination in a cultural and legal sense, most obviously with the question of SSM. What I don’t see in day-to-day life is individuals openly discriminating against or harassing homosexuals for being gay.

Maybe it’s just my social circle, maybe I just don’t know many of the people who are out there discriminating against gays regularly.

esselte said:

diddly-squat said:

eople can’t see the blatant discrimination that is leveled against LGBTIQ people

I do see discrimination in a cultural and legal sense, most obviously with the question of SSM. What I don’t see in day-to-day life is individuals openly discriminating against or harassing homosexuals for being gay.

Maybe it’s just my social circle, maybe I just don’t know many of the people who are out there discriminating against gays regularly.

from my perspective it’s the pervasive cultural and legal discrimination that is the worst kind because it’s largely dismissed as being “normal”

diddly-squat said:

esselte said:

diddly-squat said:

eople can’t see the blatant discrimination that is leveled against LGBTIQ people

I do see discrimination in a cultural and legal sense, most obviously with the question of SSM. What I don’t see in day-to-day life is individuals openly discriminating against or harassing homosexuals for being gay.

Maybe it’s just my social circle, maybe I just don’t know many of the people who are out there discriminating against gays regularly.

from my perspective it’s the pervasive cultural and legal discrimination that is the worst kind because it’s largely dismissed as being “normal”

In a way it is quite similar to anyone who says openly that they are vegetarian. The carnivores all feel that they are normal and the vegetarian is abnormal. The real reason is that they fear the vegetarian. In the same way they fear SSM.

esselte said:

Bubblecar said:

>Is male male change rooms different when one is gay and one straight?

I’d imagine it depends on the individuals. As a (gay) high school student I didn’t like having to change and shower with the other boys, but managed to find a more private area of the changing shed, where I was later joined by another boy who had similar reservations.

Because of this (and because we disliked sport) one of the nasty PE teachers often referred to us as “you two girls”.

Bubblecar, this is a personal question and I will understand if you don’t answer it. I am asking because in light of the current debate I’m hearing a lot about how gays are constantly discriminated against and it’s something I (as a straight person) don’t really see happening all that much. I know people who are gay, I see them interacting with other people and in general I just don’t see examples of homophobia other than extremely rarely.

My question to you, based on the PE teacher referring to you as a “girl” in high school, were you offended or angered or anything when people here were teasing you for having bought a “girl’s bike”? Like, is there a connection in your mind between the high school stuff and stuff that happens these days?

When I saw your post about the PE teacher, my first impulse was to write a post teasing you about the long hair and the girls bike. But then I thought “Wait, what if this is one of those microaggression things or what if I am actually being, in some way, homophobic towards Bubblecar by typing something like this to him.” Is it and would I have been?

Nah, it’s just good-humoured banter in this place.

As a long-haired teen I was sometimes genuinely mistaken for a girl, but there hasn’t been any danger of that for a long while :)

As a big fat bearded bloke I seldom cop homophobic remarks (although occasionally did in Hobart, just for dressing nicely).

I’m well aware that I look rather eccentric on my bike BUT I JUST DON’T CARE!

:)

I dunno much about sweaty changeroom but I watched that macklemicklemore dude and I haven’t fucked one bloke since…

I think the danger is overrated.

Dropbear said:

I dunno much about sweaty changeroom but I watched that macklemicklemore dude and I haven’t fucked one bloke since…

I think the danger is overrated.

Don’t I count ?

diddly-squat said:

esselte said:

diddly-squat said:

eople can’t see the blatant discrimination that is leveled against LGBTIQ people

I do see discrimination in a cultural and legal sense, most obviously with the question of SSM. What I don’t see in day-to-day life is individuals openly discriminating against or harassing homosexuals for being gay.

Maybe it’s just my social circle, maybe I just don’t know many of the people who are out there discriminating against gays regularly.

from my perspective it’s the pervasive cultural and legal discrimination that is the worst kind because it’s largely dismissed as being “normal”

Whilst I’ve already agreed that cultural and legal discrimination against gays exists, I’m not sure I would call it “pervasive”.

esselte said:

diddly-squat said:

eople can’t see the blatant discrimination that is leveled against LGBTIQ people

I do see discrimination in a cultural and legal sense, most obviously with the question of SSM. What I don’t see in day-to-day life is individuals openly discriminating against or harassing homosexuals for being gay.

Maybe it’s just my social circle, maybe I just don’t know many of the people who are out there discriminating against gays regularly.

yeh I’m not sure there is a whole lot of legal discrimination left really, other than the bleeding obvious elephant in the room

roughbarked said:

In a way it is quite similar to anyone who says openly that they are vegetarian. The carnivores all feel that they are normal and the vegetarian is abnormal. The real reason is that they fear the vegetarian. In the same way they fear SSM.

jesus christ…..

roughbarked said:

diddly-squat said:

esselte said:

I do see discrimination in a cultural and legal sense, most obviously with the question of SSM. What I don’t see in day-to-day life is individuals openly discriminating against or harassing homosexuals for being gay.

Maybe it’s just my social circle, maybe I just don’t know many of the people who are out there discriminating against gays regularly.

from my perspective it’s the pervasive cultural and legal discrimination that is the worst kind because it’s largely dismissed as being “normal”

In a way it is quite similar to anyone who says openly that they are vegetarian. The carnivores all feel that they are normal and the vegetarian is abnormal. The real reason is that they fear the vegetarian. In the same way they fear SSM.

I’m not sure I’d go so far as to compare homophobia and hate against vegetarians

diddly-squat said:

roughbarked said:

diddly-squat said:

from my perspective it’s the pervasive cultural and legal discrimination that is the worst kind because it’s largely dismissed as being “normal”

In a way it is quite similar to anyone who says openly that they are vegetarian. The carnivores all feel that they are normal and the vegetarian is abnormal. The real reason is that they fear the vegetarian. In the same way they fear SSM.

I’m not sure I’d go so far as to compare homophobia and hate against vegetarians

I don’t fear vegetarians you can kill them the same way you do with vampires, a steak

diddly-squat said:

roughbarked said:

diddly-squat said:

from my perspective it’s the pervasive cultural and legal discrimination that is the worst kind because it’s largely dismissed as being “normal”

In a way it is quite similar to anyone who says openly that they are vegetarian. The carnivores all feel that they are normal and the vegetarian is abnormal. The real reason is that they fear the vegetarian. In the same way they fear SSM.

I’m not sure I’d go so far as to compare homophobia and hate against vegetarians

I think what Roughie is trying to say is that vegetarians have rights and that they are often bullied by white straight male Christian omnivores.

• I don’t fear vegetarians you can kill them the same way you do with vampires, a steak

Vegetarians and Meat Eaters can inter-marry but only a vegan can marry another vegan…

furious said:

• I don’t fear vegetarians you can kill them the same way you do with vampires, a steak

Vegetarians and Meat Eaters can inter-marry but only a vegan can marry another vegan…

I think when two vegetarians mate, they produce a vegan, which is a sterile offspring .. at least that’s what I heard.

we need to support the VVPGFQ movement

vegetarian, vegan, paleo, gluten free and questioning

Dropbear said:

furious said:

• I don’t fear vegetarians you can kill them the same way you do with vampires, a steak

Vegetarians and Meat Eaters can inter-marry but only a vegan can marry another vegan…

I think when two vegetarians mate, they produce a vegan, which is a sterile offspring .. at least that’s what I heard.

what do two Pescartaians produce?

diddly-squat said:

Dropbear said:

furious said:

• I don’t fear vegetarians you can kill them the same way you do with vampires, a steak

Vegetarians and Meat Eaters can inter-marry but only a vegan can marry another vegan…

I think when two vegetarians mate, they produce a vegan, which is a sterile offspring .. at least that’s what I heard.

what do two Pescartaians produce?

heavy metal poisoning

diddly-squat said:

esselte said:

diddly-squat said:

eople can’t see the blatant discrimination that is leveled against LGBTIQ people

I do see discrimination in a cultural and legal sense, most obviously with the question of SSM. What I don’t see in day-to-day life is individuals openly discriminating against or harassing homosexuals for being gay.

Maybe it’s just my social circle, maybe I just don’t know many of the people who are out there discriminating against gays regularly.

from my perspective it’s the pervasive cultural and legal discrimination that is the worst kind because it’s largely dismissed as being “normal”

Just popping in.

I’m not saying I disagree, but could you give some examples. Other than the obvious marriage issue, I’m not sure what the legal discrimination against gays is. On the cultural level, I guess there is pervasive low level discrimination, and also some much higher level discrimination, but I don’t see that as being pervasive.

“Meanwhile…”

Arts said:

I wouldn’t worry me to change in front of males who are on a sporting team with me

It does worry me that stan thinks men can’t or won’t control themselves in this situation

Well Arts I am going to say that I feel you are in the minority if you think women would be happy to change and shower with straight men. With gay men maybe less so as the natural primal fears might be alleviated if they know the guy does not have the woman in the radar as a mating target in the primal sense.

I only think that because society has set those rules, Arts. If it didn’t happen there would be no need for segregated change rooms for men and women. And I am at the moment leaning toward that also being the same in a team environment. If you think the majority of straigt ( or gay for that matter) men would not be taking a glimpse of of women they deem attractive I think you are not in the norm in this regard.

What exactly do you mean by “control themselves”? Some women and men are not confident around people of the opposite sexual persuasion whether the other people are controlling themselves or not? By controlling here I mean something as innocent as a glance or even standing in a certain direction toward the intimidated one.

If you for a second think I have in any way said men can’t control their physical sexual urges then you have drawn a very long bow indeed, Arts.

I think a very valid point that was raised by Todd Sampson on Gruen and this subject is a direct result of what he said.

Bubblecar said:

As I indicated in my earlier post, far from “ogling” anyone, many gay men would feel quite self-conscious in such situations.

I believe there would be a whole bunch of users on Grindr as well as those that don’t use Grindr that disagree with you there, Bubblecar. What is your sample size?

https://www.datingsitesreviews.com/staticpages/index.php?page=grindr-statistics-facts-history

party_pants said:

Trying not to be crude but I think OP’s line of reasoning is that a gay man in the locker rooms might get aroused, and his team mates would notice it.

Well you would be wrong. Bubblecar has said he was intimidated in a change room. Not meaning to call you out here Bubblecar. But is it too much of a stretch to have a straight person intimidated by a more outgoing gay man? Just using men here for example, but females examples would be similar I would assume.

stan101 said:

party_pants said:

Trying not to be crude but I think OP’s line of reasoning is that a gay man in the locker rooms might get aroused, and his team mates would notice it.

Well you would be wrong. Bubblecar has said he was intimidated in a change room. Not meaning to call you out here Bubblecar. But is it too much of a stretch to have a straight person intimidated by a more outgoing gay man? Just using men here for example, but females examples would be similar I would assume.

People may feel intimated in a change room if their body doesn’t match up to the others, skinny/fat man amongst all muscular men

I avoided the whole change room scenario at school by having a dr cert saying I wasn’t allowed to do PE.

Divine Angel said:

I avoided the whole change room scenario at school by having a dr cert saying I wasn’t allowed to do PE.

I went to a public school… we didn’t have to change for PE

Divine Angel said:

I avoided the whole change room scenario at school by having a dr cert saying I wasn’t allowed to do PE.

How’d you get one of those. I’d‘ve loved that.

(I did get out of sport by going to Sydney Symphony Orchestra rehearsals on Wednesday arvos. The school had gotten sick of me being beaten up at sport.)

Peak Warming Man said:

diddly-squat said:

roughbarked said:

In a way it is quite similar to anyone who says openly that they are vegetarian. The carnivores all feel that they are normal and the vegetarian is abnormal. The real reason is that they fear the vegetarian. In the same way they fear SSM.

I’m not sure I’d go so far as to compare homophobia and hate against vegetarians

I think what Roughie is trying to say is that vegetarians have rights and that they are often bullied by white straight male Christian omnivores.

hot tea came out out the nose right there.

Michael V said:

Divine Angel said:

I avoided the whole change room scenario at school by having a dr cert saying I wasn’t allowed to do PE.

How’d you get one of those. I’d‘ve loved that.

(I did get out of sport by going to Sydney Symphony Orchestra rehearsals on Wednesday arvos. The school had gotten sick of me being beaten up at sport.)

I busted my knee when I was 11, and it was an ongoing issue, enough for the dr to give me a certificate exempting me from sport. I was allowed to go to the library with the girl who’d had scoliosis and rods put in her back. A short story I wrote about sport was nominated for some competition the school did. I think it won third prize. It was laughably stupid, even back then.

Sport and woodwork were the highlight of the school week. Generally used to have sports last thing in the afternoon, so while there was changing there was no need for showering because you were going straight home anyway.

AwesomeO said:

At the maritime school there was a female in the barracks, at first there was a sign that flipped over on the SAL but that didn’t work, blokes all waiting for a shower and morning routine whilst one female did her stuff, eventually a solution arose, she had the last shower stall so no one had to walk past hers (she eventually ended up personalising it) and a bit of common dog with wearing towels whilst standing at the sinks shaving.

common dog eh

party_pants said:

Sport and woodwork were the highlight of the school week. Generally used to have sports last thing in the afternoon, so while there was changing there was no need for showering because you were going straight home anyway.

how to go home straight… wow, the things school use to teach you…

stan101 said:

Bubblecar said:

As I indicated in my earlier post, far from “ogling” anyone, many gay men would feel quite self-conscious in such situations.

I believe there would be a whole bunch of users on Grindr as well as those that don’t use Grindr that disagree with you there, Bubblecar. What is your sample size?

https://www.datingsitesreviews.com/staticpages/index.php?page=grindr-statistics-facts-history

Um, Grindr is a gay dating site, not a team change room in which most members can be expected to be straight.

diddly-squat said:

party_pants said:

Sport and woodwork were the highlight of the school week. Generally used to have sports last thing in the afternoon, so while there was changing there was no need for showering because you were going straight home anyway.

how to go home straight… wow, the things school use to teach you…

Now it’s all “my son might decide he’s a girl” and learning “radical gay sex” in the classroom.

Bubblecar said:

stan101 said:

Bubblecar said:

As I indicated in my earlier post, far from “ogling” anyone, many gay men would feel quite self-conscious in such situations.

I believe there would be a whole bunch of users on Grindr as well as those that don’t use Grindr that disagree with you there, Bubblecar. What is your sample size?

https://www.datingsitesreviews.com/staticpages/index.php?page=grindr-statistics-facts-history

Um, Grindr is a gay dating site, not a team change room in which most members can be expected to be straight.

roffle… straight members…

>But is it too much of a stretch to have a straight person intimidated by a more outgoing gay man?

What do you mean by “outgoing”? Do you really think a lone gay team member is going to turn exhibitionist in a changing room full of straight team mates?

Divine Angel said:

Michael V said:

Divine Angel said:

I avoided the whole change room scenario at school by having a dr cert saying I wasn’t allowed to do PE.

How’d you get one of those. I’d‘ve loved that.

(I did get out of sport by going to Sydney Symphony Orchestra rehearsals on Wednesday arvos. The school had gotten sick of me being beaten up at sport.)

I busted my knee when I was 11, and it was an ongoing issue, enough for the dr to give me a certificate exempting me from sport. I was allowed to go to the library with the girl who’d had scoliosis and rods put in her back. A short story I wrote about sport was nominated for some competition the school did. I think it won third prize. It was laughably stupid, even back then.

Ah, the old “busted bones to get out of sport” trick. I didn’t like pain, so I never went down that route.

I have heard about that new “Group Tinder” app or Grinder

Divine Angel said:

diddly-squat said:

party_pants said:

Sport and woodwork were the highlight of the school week. Generally used to have sports last thing in the afternoon, so while there was changing there was no need for showering because you were going straight home anyway.

how to go home straight… wow, the things school use to teach you…

Now it’s all “my son might decide he’s a girl” and learning “radical gay sex” in the classroom.

Dress wearing as well

Divine Angel said:

diddly-squat said:

party_pants said:

Sport and woodwork were the highlight of the school week. Generally used to have sports last thing in the afternoon, so while there was changing there was no need for showering because you were going straight home anyway.

how to go home straight… wow, the things school use to teach you…

Now it’s all “my son might decide he’s a girl” and learning “radical gay sex” in the classroom.

can’t they just learn good old paedophilia like in wholesome christian schools?

bone spurs

• Dress wearing as well

Now all the boys want to wear skirts and all the girls want to wear shorts so they can do cartwheels again, or something…

Anyway the solution to any such problems, real or imagined, is easy – just design sports change/shower rooms that afford everyone a greater degree of privacy.

Bubblecar said:

Anyway the solution to any such problems, real or imagined, is easy – just design sports change/shower rooms that afford everyone a greater degree of privacy.

I remember in Starship Troopers it was communal showering

Bubblecar said:

stan101 said:

Bubblecar said:

As I indicated in my earlier post, far from “ogling” anyone, many gay men would feel quite self-conscious in such situations.

I believe there would be a whole bunch of users on Grindr as well as those that don’t use Grindr that disagree with you there, Bubblecar. What is your sample size?

https://www.datingsitesreviews.com/staticpages/index.php?page=grindr-statistics-facts-history

Um, Grindr is a gay dating site, not a team change room in which most members can be expected to be straight.

So people on grindr don’t play sport? i think it is fair to say that a whole bunch of professional sportspeople use dating apps. Tinder is popular for hetrosexual and Grindr popular for homosexual. I think my point is very relevant and think that a decent proportion of gay sportspeople would use it. I don’t know about the lesbian app of choice so i did not mention it.

Bubblecar said:

>But is it too much of a stretch to have a straight person intimidated by a more outgoing gay man?

What do you mean by “outgoing”? Do you really think a lone gay team member is going to turn exhibitionist in a changing room full of straight team mates?

Yes, if they are an outgoing person.. The straight guys I played sport with would? What makes a straight guy different to a gay guy besides sexual orientation?

And based on what Todd Sampson suggested there wouldn’t be a lone gay guy in a pro team..

stan101 said:

Bubblecar said:

stan101 said:

I believe there would be a whole bunch of users on Grindr as well as those that don’t use Grindr that disagree with you there, Bubblecar. What is your sample size?

https://www.datingsitesreviews.com/staticpages/index.php?page=grindr-statistics-facts-history

Um, Grindr is a gay dating site, not a team change room in which most members can be expected to be straight.

So people on grindr don’t play sport? i think it is fair to say that a whole bunch of professional sportspeople use dating apps. Tinder is popular for hetrosexual and Grindr popular for homosexual. I think my point is very relevant and think that a decent proportion of gay sportspeople would use it. I don’t know about the lesbian app of choice so i did not mention it.

Carpeter is the lesbian dating app

Cymek said:

Bubblecar said:

Anyway the solution to any such problems, real or imagined, is easy – just design sports change/shower rooms that afford everyone a greater degree of privacy.

I remember in Starship Troopers it was communal showering

Utopia. All descendants of Arts, maybe? ;)

• I think my point is very relevant and think that a decent proportion of gay sportspeople would use it.

There was a thing during, I think, the Rio olympics where some “journalist” was using grindr to get the scoop on athletes…

stan101 said:

Bubblecar said:

stan101 said:

I believe there would be a whole bunch of users on Grindr as well as those that don’t use Grindr that disagree with you there, Bubblecar. What is your sample size?

https://www.datingsitesreviews.com/staticpages/index.php?page=grindr-statistics-facts-history

Um, Grindr is a gay dating site, not a team change room in which most members can be expected to be straight.

So people on grindr don’t play sport? i think it is fair to say that a whole bunch of professional sportspeople use dating apps. Tinder is popular for hetrosexual and Grindr popular for homosexual. I think my point is very relevant and think that a decent proportion of gay sportspeople would use it. I don’t know about the lesbian app of choice so i did not mention it.

They may well use it, but they would recognise the difference between meeting people via Grindr, and appropriate behaviour when changing in their team change room.

stan101 said:

Bubblecar said:

>But is it too much of a stretch to have a straight person intimidated by a more outgoing gay man?

What do you mean by “outgoing”? Do you really think a lone gay team member is going to turn exhibitionist in a changing room full of straight team mates?

Yes, if they are an outgoing person.. The straight guys I played sport with would? What makes a straight guy different to a gay guy besides sexual orientation?

And based on what Todd Sampson suggested there wouldn’t be a lone gay guy in a pro team..

Well maybe you mix with rather wild types of people :)

Seriously, if there was a real problem with gay team members behaving inappropriately towards straight players in the change rooms, we’d have heard plenty about it by now.

Bubblecar said:

stan101 said:

Bubblecar said:

Um, Grindr is a gay dating site, not a team change room in which most members can be expected to be straight.

So people on grindr don’t play sport? i think it is fair to say that a whole bunch of professional sportspeople use dating apps. Tinder is popular for hetrosexual and Grindr popular for homosexual. I think my point is very relevant and think that a decent proportion of gay sportspeople would use it. I don’t know about the lesbian app of choice so i did not mention it.

They may well use it, but they would recognise the difference between meeting people via Grindr, and appropriate behaviour when changing in their team change room.

the other difference in being a sportsing team changeroom, is the testosterone…

where a women might say “he ogled me, I feel violated…”

a guy might say.. “WOOOOOO no handed helicopter!!!!!”

stan101 said:

Bubblecar said:

stan101 said:

I believe there would be a whole bunch of users on Grindr as well as those that don’t use Grindr that disagree with you there, Bubblecar. What is your sample size?

https://www.datingsitesreviews.com/staticpages/index.php?page=grindr-statistics-facts-history

Um, Grindr is a gay dating site, not a team change room in which most members can be expected to be straight.

So people on grindr don’t play sport? i think it is fair to say that a whole bunch of professional sportspeople use dating apps. Tinder is popular for hetrosexual and Grindr popular for homosexual. I think my point is very relevant and think that a decent proportion of gay sportspeople would use it. I don’t know about the lesbian app of choice so i did not mention it.

roffle…

there are many gay people on Tinder… Grindr is probably more geared towards hookups, than finding “love” per se

Bubblecar said:

stan101 said:

Bubblecar said:

>But is it too much of a stretch to have a straight person intimidated by a more outgoing gay man?

What do you mean by “outgoing”? Do you really think a lone gay team member is going to turn exhibitionist in a changing room full of straight team mates?

Yes, if they are an outgoing person.. The straight guys I played sport with would? What makes a straight guy different to a gay guy besides sexual orientation?

And based on what Todd Sampson suggested there wouldn’t be a lone gay guy in a pro team..

Well maybe you mix with rather wild types of people :)

Seriously, if there was a real problem with gay team members behaving inappropriately towards straight players in the change rooms, we’d have heard plenty about it by now.

I think you’ll find you’re underestimating the social change that will occur if SSM is legalised – it is a slippery slope afterall

make SSM legal and them gays will be locker room towel flicking to their heart’s content…

diddly-squat said:

Bubblecar said:

stan101 said:

Yes, if they are an outgoing person.. The straight guys I played sport with would? What makes a straight guy different to a gay guy besides sexual orientation?

And based on what Todd Sampson suggested there wouldn’t be a lone gay guy in a pro team..

Well maybe you mix with rather wild types of people :)

Seriously, if there was a real problem with gay team members behaving inappropriately towards straight players in the change rooms, we’d have heard plenty about it by now.

I think you’ll find you’re underestimating the social change that will occur if SSM is legalised – it is a slippery slope afterall

make SSM legal and them gays will be locker room towel flicking to their heart’s content…

They’ll be trying to roger straight kids like a catholic priest in the locker room.

Bubblecar said:

stan101 said:

Bubblecar said:

>But is it too much of a stretch to have a straight person intimidated by a more outgoing gay man?

What do you mean by “outgoing”? Do you really think a lone gay team member is going to turn exhibitionist in a changing room full of straight team mates?

Yes, if they are an outgoing person.. The straight guys I played sport with would? What makes a straight guy different to a gay guy besides sexual orientation?

And based on what Todd Sampson suggested there wouldn’t be a lone gay guy in a pro team..

Well maybe you mix with rather wild types of people :)

Seriously, if there was a real problem with gay team members behaving inappropriately towards straight players in the change rooms, we’d have heard plenty about it by now.

The gay part would be irrelevant wouldn’t it, that behaviour isn’t appropriate at all, it’s sexual harassment

I can assure you that even in gay saunas, although plenty of ogling goes on in various ordinary communal areas, there are rules and regulations that ensure everyone’s autonomy (and privacy, if they wish) is respected.

http://357.com.au/rules/

Bubblecar said:

stan101 said:

Bubblecar said:

>But is it too much of a stretch to have a straight person intimidated by a more outgoing gay man?

What do you mean by “outgoing”? Do you really think a lone gay team member is going to turn exhibitionist in a changing room full of straight team mates?

Yes, if they are an outgoing person.. The straight guys I played sport with would? What makes a straight guy different to a gay guy besides sexual orientation?

And based on what Todd Sampson suggested there wouldn’t be a lone gay guy in a pro team..

Well maybe you mix with rather wild types of people :)

Seriously, if there was a real problem with gay team members behaving inappropriately towards straight players in the change rooms, we’d have heard plenty about it by now.

What do you mean by inappropriately? I’m talking about someone feeling uncomfortable changing in a room with other people who’s sexual orientation is toward their sex. This works both ways, Bubblecar. And besides there apparently there are no pro male players in the AFL and Ian Roberts is the only NRL player I know of. I have no idea in union or soccer.

BTW, your idea on more private lockers might be whats required if enough people deem they are intimidated.

Bubblecar said:

I can assure you that even in gay saunas, although plenty of ogling goes on in various ordinary communal areas, there are rules and regulations that ensure everyone’s autonomy (and privacy, if they wish) is respected.

http://357.com.au/rules/

slow down poindexter… you mean gay people are just like straight people but instead of liking people of the opposite sex, they like people of the same sex…

wow … it seems the Police Academy movie franchise lied to me…

Stumpy_seahorse said:

Bubblecar said:

stan101 said:

So people on grindr don’t play sport? i think it is fair to say that a whole bunch of professional sportspeople use dating apps. Tinder is popular for hetrosexual and Grindr popular for homosexual. I think my point is very relevant and think that a decent proportion of gay sportspeople would use it. I don’t know about the lesbian app of choice so i did not mention it.

They may well use it, but they would recognise the difference between meeting people via Grindr, and appropriate behaviour when changing in their team change room.

the other difference in being a sportsing team changeroom, is the testosterone…

where a women might say “he ogled me, I feel violated…”

a guy might say.. “WOOOOOO no handed helicopter!!!!!”

Very true. And by some that very act of the helicopter might be seen as a sexual one by someone as less outgoing.

diddly-squat said:

stan101 said:

Bubblecar said:

Um, Grindr is a gay dating site, not a team change room in which most members can be expected to be straight.

So people on grindr don’t play sport? i think it is fair to say that a whole bunch of professional sportspeople use dating apps. Tinder is popular for hetrosexual and Grindr popular for homosexual. I think my point is very relevant and think that a decent proportion of gay sportspeople would use it. I don’t know about the lesbian app of choice so i did not mention it.

roffle…

there are many gay people on Tinder… Grindr is probably more geared towards hookups, than finding “love” per se

I never said mutually exclusive. But I take your point. I don’t know how many people look on Tinder for “love” per se, either.

stan… what exactly is your issue here??

are you really worried that straight men will be made to feel uncomfortable if they have to use the same change room as a gay man?? I mean seriously, how would you even know if you did share a change room with something that was gay?

Cymek said:

Bubblecar said:

Anyway the solution to any such problems, real or imagined, is easy – just design sports change/shower rooms that afford everyone a greater degree of privacy.

I remember in Starship Troopers it was communal showering

showering guarantees citizenship

diddly-squat said:

stan… what exactly is your issue here??

are you really worried that straight men will be made to feel uncomfortable if they have to use the same change room as a gay man?? I mean seriously, how would you even know if you did share a change room with something that was gay?

that time you undressed me with your eyes, Diddly.

• how would you even know if you did share a change room with something that was gay?

The original post referred directly to sharing a change room with someone (not something) who had “come out”…

Dropbear said:

Cymek said:

Bubblecar said:

Anyway the solution to any such problems, real or imagined, is easy – just design sports change/shower rooms that afford everyone a greater degree of privacy.

I remember in Starship Troopers it was communal showering

showering guarantees citizenship

Exactly

Dropbear said:

Cymek said:

Bubblecar said:

Anyway the solution to any such problems, real or imagined, is easy – just design sports change/shower rooms that afford everyone a greater degree of privacy.

I remember in Starship Troopers it was communal showering

showering guarantees citizenship*

*unless you’re in kweensland…

Stumpy_seahorse said:

Dropbear said:

Cymek said:

I remember in Starship Troopers it was communal showering

showering guarantees citizenship*

*unless you’re in kweensland…

extra incentive to shower more up in the northern moistitudes

Dropbear said:

diddly-squat said:

stan… what exactly is your issue here??

are you really worried that straight men will be made to feel uncomfortable if they have to use the same change room as a gay man?? I mean seriously, how would you even know if you did share a change room with something that was gay?

that time you undressed me with your eyes, Diddly.

It’s a stick and twisted fantasy – but we always want what we can’t have

diddly-squat said:

Dropbear said:

diddly-squat said:

stan… what exactly is your issue here??

are you really worried that straight men will be made to feel uncomfortable if they have to use the same change room as a gay man?? I mean seriously, how would you even know if you did share a change room with something that was gay?

that time you undressed me with your eyes, Diddly.

It’s a stick and twisted fantasy – but we always want what we can’t have

Lucky for both of you the things done in Fiji stay in Fiji, wink

diddly-squat said:

stan… what exactly is your issue here??

are you really worried that straight men will be made to feel uncomfortable if they have to use the same change room as a gay man?? I mean seriously, how would you even know if you did share a change room with something that was gay?

It has nothing to do with me directly, I am not an elite athlete though I openly change on a regular basis in front of the gay couple who finish swimming at my apartment pool at closing time like I do most nights.

The country I work in openly has a third sex here and have no issue at all. I don’t think homophobic people from other countries would last too long in this country by choice.

It is not just about men. I don’t know why you think that. I have mentioned women enough times. Other will not see it as the way you describe it and the point is that whether you think it is right or wrong there will be gay and lesbian sports people coming out. This raises the question of the ramifications of people right to do so. Change rooms is one scenario.

In general I think it is safe to say that women would not feel comfortable changing and showering with men and I would imagine that is due to the consciously or subconsciously reasoning that women see them selves as procreative mates for males and that makes them uncomfortable if that male is not there special person.

So would it also stand to reason that some percentage of both males and females might feel uncomfortable in such circumstances when they are in the company of people who’s sexual orientation, in their mind at least, makes them a potential sexual mate.

Now I am not saying people are going to throw themselves at others so please do not misconstrue this. But how many times have you heard of women saying, even in team environments that “the way that person looks at me gives me the creeps” or words to that effect. Now I realise most pro sports players have a higher self esteem in general because of their position, popularity and self worth but if you feel uncomfortable you feel uncomfortable.

I’m saying that I believe sportspeople will come out. I am saying that this scenario will be possible. And I thought I would get some serious discussion (as well as some delightful side humour like the vego – vegan stuff hehe) on how it will / should / could be handled. Seems I am a bad judge of some rooms.

I am absolutely surprised few, if anyone who has commented in this thread could not potentially see this as a scenario arising where someone feels uncomfortable in being in that environment.

stan101 said:

diddly-squat said:

stan… what exactly is your issue here??

are you really worried that straight men will be made to feel uncomfortable if they have to use the same change room as a gay man?? I mean seriously, how would you even know if you did share a change room with something that was gay?

It has nothing to do with me directly, I am not an elite athlete though I openly change on a regular basis in front of the gay couple who finish swimming at my apartment pool at closing time like I do most nights.

The country I work in openly has a third sex here and have no issue at all. I don’t think homophobic people from other countries would last too long in this country by choice.

It is not just about men. I don’t know why you think that. I have mentioned women enough times. Other will not see it as the way you describe it and the point is that whether you think it is right or wrong there will be gay and lesbian sports people coming out. This raises the question of the ramifications of people right to do so. Change rooms is one scenario.

In general I think it is safe to say that women would not feel comfortable changing and showering with men and I would imagine that is due to the consciously or subconsciously reasoning that women see them selves as procreative mates for males and that makes them uncomfortable if that male is not there special person.

So would it also stand to reason that some percentage of both males and females might feel uncomfortable in such circumstances when they are in the company of people who’s sexual orientation, in their mind at least, makes them a potential sexual mate.

Now I am not saying people are going to throw themselves at others so please do not misconstrue this. But how many times have you heard of women saying, even in team environments that “the way that person looks at me gives me the creeps” or words to that effect. Now I realise most pro sports players have a higher self esteem in general because of their position, popularity and self worth but if you feel uncomfortable you feel uncomfortable.

I’m saying that I believe sportspeople will come out. I am saying that this scenario will be possible. And I thought I would get some serious discussion (as well as some delightful side humour like the vego – vegan stuff hehe) on how it will / should / could be handled. Seems I am a bad judge of some rooms.

I am absolutely surprised few, if anyone who has commented in this thread could not potentially see this as a scenario arising where someone feels uncomfortable in being in that environment.

let me get this straight..

your apartment block has a pool, and instead of wrapping yourself in a towel and strolling back to your apartment to change, you down trow in public inf\front of a couple.. and you’re wondering if you should feel violated by their sideways glances?

stan101 said:

diddly-squat said:

stan… what exactly is your issue here??

are you really worried that straight men will be made to feel uncomfortable if they have to use the same change room as a gay man?? I mean seriously, how would you even know if you did share a change room with something that was gay?

It has nothing to do with me directly, I am not an elite athlete though I openly change on a regular basis in front of the gay couple who finish swimming at my apartment pool at closing time like I do most nights.

The country I work in openly has a third sex here and have no issue at all. I don’t think homophobic people from other countries would last too long in this country by choice.

It is not just about men. I don’t know why you think that. I have mentioned women enough times. Other will not see it as the way you describe it and the point is that whether you think it is right or wrong there will be gay and lesbian sports people coming out. This raises the question of the ramifications of people right to do so. Change rooms is one scenario.

In general I think it is safe to say that women would not feel comfortable changing and showering with men and I would imagine that is due to the consciously or subconsciously reasoning that women see them selves as procreative mates for males and that makes them uncomfortable if that male is not there special person.

So would it also stand to reason that some percentage of both males and females might feel uncomfortable in such circumstances when they are in the company of people who’s sexual orientation, in their mind at least, makes them a potential sexual mate.

Now I am not saying people are going to throw themselves at others so please do not misconstrue this. But how many times have you heard of women saying, even in team environments that “the way that person looks at me gives me the creeps” or words to that effect. Now I realise most pro sports players have a higher self esteem in general because of their position, popularity and self worth but if you feel uncomfortable you feel uncomfortable.

I’m saying that I believe sportspeople will come out. I am saying that this scenario will be possible. And I thought I would get some serious discussion (as well as some delightful side humour like the vego – vegan stuff hehe) on how it will / should / could be handled. Seems I am a bad judge of some rooms.

I am absolutely surprised few, if anyone who has commented in this thread could not potentially see this as a scenario arising where someone feels uncomfortable in being in that environment.

They might but you’d hope the people in question would act appropriately even if they are attracted to a person in a locker room. Is it any different to sexual harassment between members of the opposite sex

Stumpy_seahorse said:

stan101 said:

diddly-squat said:

stan… what exactly is your issue here??

are you really worried that straight men will be made to feel uncomfortable if they have to use the same change room as a gay man?? I mean seriously, how would you even know if you did share a change room with something that was gay?

It has nothing to do with me directly, I am not an elite athlete though I openly change on a regular basis in front of the gay couple who finish swimming at my apartment pool at closing time like I do most nights.

The country I work in openly has a third sex here and have no issue at all. I don’t think homophobic people from other countries would last too long in this country by choice.

It is not just about men. I don’t know why you think that. I have mentioned women enough times. Other will not see it as the way you describe it and the point is that whether you think it is right or wrong there will be gay and lesbian sports people coming out. This raises the question of the ramifications of people right to do so. Change rooms is one scenario.

In general I think it is safe to say that women would not feel comfortable changing and showering with men and I would imagine that is due to the consciously or subconsciously reasoning that women see them selves as procreative mates for males and that makes them uncomfortable if that male is not there special person.

So would it also stand to reason that some percentage of both males and females might feel uncomfortable in such circumstances when they are in the company of people who’s sexual orientation, in their mind at least, makes them a potential sexual mate.

Now I am not saying people are going to throw themselves at others so please do not misconstrue this. But how many times have you heard of women saying, even in team environments that “the way that person looks at me gives me the creeps” or words to that effect. Now I realise most pro sports players have a higher self esteem in general because of their position, popularity and self worth but if you feel uncomfortable you feel uncomfortable.

I’m saying that I believe sportspeople will come out. I am saying that this scenario will be possible. And I thought I would get some serious discussion (as well as some delightful side humour like the vego – vegan stuff hehe) on how it will / should / could be handled. Seems I am a bad judge of some rooms.

I am absolutely surprised few, if anyone who has commented in this thread could not potentially see this as a scenario arising where someone feels uncomfortable in being in that environment.

let me get this straight..

your apartment block has a pool, and instead of wrapping yourself in a towel and strolling back to your apartment to change, you down trow in public inf\front of a couple.. and you’re wondering if you should feel violated by their sideways glances?

Does seem a bit queer.

You could get George R. R. Martin involved but his obsession seems to be floppy wieners.

Stumpy_seahorse said:

stan101 said:

diddly-squat said:

stan… what exactly is your issue here??

are you really worried that straight men will be made to feel uncomfortable if they have to use the same change room as a gay man?? I mean seriously, how would you even know if you did share a change room with something that was gay?

It has nothing to do with me directly, I am not an elite athlete though I openly change on a regular basis in front of the gay couple who finish swimming at my apartment pool at closing time like I do most nights.

The country I work in openly has a third sex here and have no issue at all. I don’t think homophobic people from other countries would last too long in this country by choice.

It is not just about men. I don’t know why you think that. I have mentioned women enough times. Other will not see it as the way you describe it and the point is that whether you think it is right or wrong there will be gay and lesbian sports people coming out. This raises the question of the ramifications of people right to do so. Change rooms is one scenario.

In general I think it is safe to say that women would not feel comfortable changing and showering with men and I would imagine that is due to the consciously or subconsciously reasoning that women see them selves as procreative mates for males and that makes them uncomfortable if that male is not there special person.

So would it also stand to reason that some percentage of both males and females might feel uncomfortable in such circumstances when they are in the company of people who’s sexual orientation, in their mind at least, makes them a potential sexual mate.

Now I am not saying people are going to throw themselves at others so please do not misconstrue this. But how many times have you heard of women saying, even in team environments that “the way that person looks at me gives me the creeps” or words to that effect. Now I realise most pro sports players have a higher self esteem in general because of their position, popularity and self worth but if you feel uncomfortable you feel uncomfortable.

I’m saying that I believe sportspeople will come out. I am saying that this scenario will be possible. And I thought I would get some serious discussion (as well as some delightful side humour like the vego – vegan stuff hehe) on how it will / should / could be handled. Seems I am a bad judge of some rooms.

I am absolutely surprised few, if anyone who has commented in this thread could not potentially see this as a scenario arising where someone feels uncomfortable in being in that environment.

let me get this straight..

your apartment block has a pool, and instead of wrapping yourself in a towel and strolling back to your apartment to change, you down trow in public inf\front of a couple.. and you’re wondering if you should feel violated by their sideways glances?

Nice attempt but it lacked a few aspects to make is cutting or humorous.. But I find it interesting you don’t think that some elite players will not feel uncomfortable in such situations.

poikilotherm said:

Stumpy_seahorse said:

stan101 said:

It has nothing to do with me directly, I am not an elite athlete though I openly change on a regular basis in front of the gay couple who finish swimming at my apartment pool at closing time like I do most nights.

The country I work in openly has a third sex here and have no issue at all. I don’t think homophobic people from other countries would last too long in this country by choice.

It is not just about men. I don’t know why you think that. I have mentioned women enough times. Other will not see it as the way you describe it and the point is that whether you think it is right or wrong there will be gay and lesbian sports people coming out. This raises the question of the ramifications of people right to do so. Change rooms is one scenario.

In general I think it is safe to say that women would not feel comfortable changing and showering with men and I would imagine that is due to the consciously or subconsciously reasoning that women see them selves as procreative mates for males and that makes them uncomfortable if that male is not there special person.

So would it also stand to reason that some percentage of both males and females might feel uncomfortable in such circumstances when they are in the company of people who’s sexual orientation, in their mind at least, makes them a potential sexual mate.

Now I am not saying people are going to throw themselves at others so please do not misconstrue this. But how many times have you heard of women saying, even in team environments that “the way that person looks at me gives me the creeps” or words to that effect. Now I realise most pro sports players have a higher self esteem in general because of their position, popularity and self worth but if you feel uncomfortable you feel uncomfortable.

I’m saying that I believe sportspeople will come out. I am saying that this scenario will be possible. And I thought I would get some serious discussion (as well as some delightful side humour like the vego – vegan stuff hehe) on how it will / should / could be handled. Seems I am a bad judge of some rooms.

I am absolutely surprised few, if anyone who has commented in this thread could not potentially see this as a scenario arising where someone feels uncomfortable in being in that environment.

let me get this straight..

your apartment block has a pool, and instead of wrapping yourself in a towel and strolling back to your apartment to change, you down trow in public inf\front of a couple.. and you’re wondering if you should feel violated by their sideways glances?

Does seem a bit queer.

Sounds like you are on the No vote.

stan101 said:

Stumpy_seahorse said:

stan101 said:

It has nothing to do with me directly, I am not an elite athlete though I openly change on a regular basis in front of the gay couple who finish swimming at my apartment pool at closing time like I do most nights.

The country I work in openly has a third sex here and have no issue at all. I don’t think homophobic people from other countries would last too long in this country by choice.

It is not just about men. I don’t know why you think that. I have mentioned women enough times. Other will not see it as the way you describe it and the point is that whether you think it is right or wrong there will be gay and lesbian sports people coming out. This raises the question of the ramifications of people right to do so. Change rooms is one scenario.

In general I think it is safe to say that women would not feel comfortable changing and showering with men and I would imagine that is due to the consciously or subconsciously reasoning that women see them selves as procreative mates for males and that makes them uncomfortable if that male is not there special person.

So would it also stand to reason that some percentage of both males and females might feel uncomfortable in such circumstances when they are in the company of people who’s sexual orientation, in their mind at least, makes them a potential sexual mate.

Now I am not saying people are going to throw themselves at others so please do not misconstrue this. But how many times have you heard of women saying, even in team environments that “the way that person looks at me gives me the creeps” or words to that effect. Now I realise most pro sports players have a higher self esteem in general because of their position, popularity and self worth but if you feel uncomfortable you feel uncomfortable.

I’m saying that I believe sportspeople will come out. I am saying that this scenario will be possible. And I thought I would get some serious discussion (as well as some delightful side humour like the vego – vegan stuff hehe) on how it will / should / could be handled. Seems I am a bad judge of some rooms.

I am absolutely surprised few, if anyone who has commented in this thread could not potentially see this as a scenario arising where someone feels uncomfortable in being in that environment.

let me get this straight..

your apartment block has a pool, and instead of wrapping yourself in a towel and strolling back to your apartment to change, you down trow in public inf\front of a couple.. and you’re wondering if you should feel violated by their sideways glances?

Nice attempt but it lacked a few aspects to make is cutting or humorous.. But I find it interesting you don’t think that some elite players will not feel uncomfortable in such situations.

I have no doubt that the couple could find you dropping your drawers in front of them very confronting..

stan101 said:

Stumpy_seahorse said:

stan101 said:

It has nothing to do with me directly, I am not an elite athlete though I openly change on a regular basis in front of the gay couple who finish swimming at my apartment pool at closing time like I do most nights.

The country I work in openly has a third sex here and have no issue at all. I don’t think homophobic people from other countries would last too long in this country by choice.

It is not just about men. I don’t know why you think that. I have mentioned women enough times. Other will not see it as the way you describe it and the point is that whether you think it is right or wrong there will be gay and lesbian sports people coming out. This raises the question of the ramifications of people right to do so. Change rooms is one scenario.

In general I think it is safe to say that women would not feel comfortable changing and showering with men and I would imagine that is due to the consciously or subconsciously reasoning that women see them selves as procreative mates for males and that makes them uncomfortable if that male is not there special person.

So would it also stand to reason that some percentage of both males and females might feel uncomfortable in such circumstances when they are in the company of people who’s sexual orientation, in their mind at least, makes them a potential sexual mate.

Now I am not saying people are going to throw themselves at others so please do not misconstrue this. But how many times have you heard of women saying, even in team environments that “the way that person looks at me gives me the creeps” or words to that effect. Now I realise most pro sports players have a higher self esteem in general because of their position, popularity and self worth but if you feel uncomfortable you feel uncomfortable.

I’m saying that I believe sportspeople will come out. I am saying that this scenario will be possible. And I thought I would get some serious discussion (as well as some delightful side humour like the vego – vegan stuff hehe) on how it will / should / could be handled. Seems I am a bad judge of some rooms.

I am absolutely surprised few, if anyone who has commented in this thread could not potentially see this as a scenario arising where someone feels uncomfortable in being in that environment.

let me get this straight..

your apartment block has a pool, and instead of wrapping yourself in a towel and strolling back to your apartment to change, you down trow in public inf\front of a couple.. and you’re wondering if you should feel violated by their sideways glances?

Nice attempt but it lacked a few aspects to make is cutting or humorous.. But I find it interesting you don’t think that some elite players will not feel uncomfortable in such situations.

When you towel off do they use you as a towel rack

stan101 said:

Nice attempt but it lacked a few aspects to make is cutting or humorous.. But I find it interesting you don’t think that some elite players will not feel uncomfortable in such situations.

Some may feel uncomfortable (some people feel uncomfortable with any kind of communal nudity) but as I said, the simple solution is to provide more privacy (separate cubicles etc) in changing rooms.

Bubblecar said:

stan101 said:

Nice attempt but it lacked a few aspects to make is cutting or humorous.. But I find it interesting you don’t think that some elite players will not feel uncomfortable in such situations.

Some may feel uncomfortable (some people feel uncomfortable with any kind of communal nudity) but as I said, the simple solution is to provide more privacy (separate cubicles etc) in changing rooms.

And as I said before I agree with you that might be a scenario…

But I’m just starting to be mocked here so I’ll just say watch this space… It may be interesting in sports teams in time to come.

Dropbear said:

roughbarked said:

In a way it is quite similar to anyone who says openly that they are vegetarian. The carnivores all feel that they are normal and the vegetarian is abnormal. The real reason is that they fear the vegetarian. In the same way they fear SSM.

jesus christ…..

Don’t think he had a viewpoint.

diddly-squat said:

roughbarked said:

diddly-squat said:

from my perspective it’s the pervasive cultural and legal discrimination that is the worst kind because it’s largely dismissed as being “normal”

In a way it is quite similar to anyone who says openly that they are vegetarian. The carnivores all feel that they are normal and the vegetarian is abnormal. The real reason is that they fear the vegetarian. In the same way they fear SSM.

I’m not sure I’d go so far as to compare homophobia and hate against vegetarians

It is all phobia.

I think it is probably fair to say that there are a lot of heterosexual men in their thirties and older who are somewhat unprepared for dealing with queers as people rather than as a threat.

This kind of abnormalisation is not common among young people, though, so we can probably hope that forty years from now this awkward phase will be pretty much dealt with.

Peak Warming Man said:

diddly-squat said:

roughbarked said:

In a way it is quite similar to anyone who says openly that they are vegetarian. The carnivores all feel that they are normal and the vegetarian is abnormal. The real reason is that they fear the vegetarian. In the same way they fear SSM.

I’m not sure I’d go so far as to compare homophobia and hate against vegetarians

I think what Roughie is trying to say is that vegetarians have rights and that they are often bullied by white straight male Christian omnivores.

I’d venture to say that SSM people have less to fear than vegetarians.

furious said:

• I don’t fear vegetarians you can kill them the same way you do with vampires, a steak

Vegetarians and Meat Eaters can inter-marry but only a vegan can marry another vegan…

Yeah well, vegans are a special bunch.

Dropbear said:

furious said:

• I don’t fear vegetarians you can kill them the same way you do with vampires, a steak

Vegetarians and Meat Eaters can inter-marry but only a vegan can marry another vegan…

I think when two vegetarians mate, they produce a vegan, which is a sterile offspring .. at least that’s what I heard.

Hearsay ain’t evidence.

roughbarked said:

Peak Warming Man said:

diddly-squat said:

I’m not sure I’d go so far as to compare homophobia and hate against vegetarians

I think what Roughie is trying to say is that vegetarians have rights and that they are often bullied by white straight male Christian omnivores.

I’d venture to say that SSM people have less to fear than vegetarians.

Oh geeze

AwesomeO said:

roughbarked said:

Peak Warming Man said:

I think what Roughie is trying to say is that vegetarians have rights and that they are often bullied by white straight male Christian omnivores.

I’d venture to say that SSM people have less to fear than vegetarians.

Oh geeze

Well it’s true that same sex marriage doesn’t cause B12 deficiency

dv said:

I think it is probably fair to say that there are a lot of heterosexual men in their thirties and older who are somewhat unprepared for dealing with queers as people rather than as a threat.

This kind of abnormalisation is not common among young people, though, so we can probably hope that forty years from now this awkward phase will be pretty much dealt with.

I disagree. I’ve had homosexual friends for forty years and more.

roughbarked said:

dv said:

I think it is probably fair to say that there are a lot of heterosexual men in their thirties and older who are somewhat unprepared for dealing with queers as people rather than as a threat.

This kind of abnormalisation is not common among young people, though, so we can probably hope that forty years from now this awkward phase will be pretty much dealt with.

I disagree. I’ve had homosexual friends for forty years and more.

Well I wasn’t talking about you specifically. I said “a lot”.

stan101 said:

Bubblecar said:

stan101 said:

Nice attempt but it lacked a few aspects to make is cutting or humorous.. But I find it interesting you don’t think that some elite players will not feel uncomfortable in such situations.

Some may feel uncomfortable (some people feel uncomfortable with any kind of communal nudity) but as I said, the simple solution is to provide more privacy (separate cubicles etc) in changing rooms.

And as I said before I agree with you that might be a scenario…

But I’m just starting to be mocked here so I’ll just say watch this space… It may be interesting in sports teams in time to come.

Wouldn’t the scenario already exist with gay sportspeople in locker rooms, SSM won’t change anything.

dv said:

AwesomeO said:

roughbarked said:

I’d venture to say that SSM people have less to fear than vegetarians.

Oh geeze

Well it’s true that same sex marriage doesn’t cause B12 deficiency

It is also true that same sex marriage doesn’t include many vegetarians.

dv said:

AwesomeO said:

roughbarked said:

I’d venture to say that SSM people have less to fear than vegetarians.

Oh geeze

Well it’s true that same sex marriage doesn’t cause B12 deficiency

And anyway you can get that from nuts.

dv said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

I think it is probably fair to say that there are a lot of heterosexual men in their thirties and older who are somewhat unprepared for dealing with queers as people rather than as a threat.

This kind of abnormalisation is not common among young people, though, so we can probably hope that forty years from now this awkward phase will be pretty much dealt with.

I disagree. I’ve had homosexual friends for forty years and more.

Well I wasn’t talking about you specifically. I said “a lot”.

Fair enough then. ;)

roughbarked said:

dv said:

I think it is probably fair to say that there are a lot of heterosexual men in their thirties and older who are somewhat unprepared for dealing with queers as people rather than as a threat.

This kind of abnormalisation is not common among young people, though, so we can probably hope that forty years from now this awkward phase will be pretty much dealt with.

I disagree. I’ve had homosexual friends for forty years and more.

Well there ya go. No problem then.

roughbarked said:

dv said:

I think it is probably fair to say that there are a lot of heterosexual men in their thirties and older who are somewhat unprepared for dealing with queers as people rather than as a threat.

This kind of abnormalisation is not common among young people, though, so we can probably hope that forty years from now this awkward phase will be pretty much dealt with.

I disagree. I’ve had homosexual friends for forty years and more.

I’ve never thought as gay people as a threat and most people my age are all for SSM.
I’ve always told my children its perfectly fine to be that way and not to judge them for it and they don’t.

Peak Warming Man said:

dv said:

AwesomeO said:

Oh geeze

Well it’s true that same sex marriage doesn’t cause B12 deficiency

And anyway you can get that from nuts.

wahey matron

AwesomeO said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

I think it is probably fair to say that there are a lot of heterosexual men in their thirties and older who are somewhat unprepared for dealing with queers as people rather than as a threat.

This kind of abnormalisation is not common among young people, though, so we can probably hope that forty years from now this awkward phase will be pretty much dealt with.

I disagree. I’ve had homosexual friends for forty years and more.

Well there ya go. No problem then.

My point is that the bigger problem comes from those of younger generations that have deep seated religious indoctrination.

Cymek said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

I think it is probably fair to say that there are a lot of heterosexual men in their thirties and older who are somewhat unprepared for dealing with queers as people rather than as a threat.

This kind of abnormalisation is not common among young people, though, so we can probably hope that forty years from now this awkward phase will be pretty much dealt with.

I disagree. I’ve had homosexual friends for forty years and more.

I’ve never thought as gay people as a threat and most people my age are all for SSM.
I’ve always told my children its perfectly fine to be that way and not to judge them for it and they don’t.

It isn’t about us and them. We are all people. Some of us dare to be different, is all.

dv said:

Peak Warming Man said:

dv said:

Well it’s true that same sex marriage doesn’t cause B12 deficiency

And anyway you can get that from nuts.

wahey matron

It is a long way to Brazil.

roughbarked said:

AwesomeO said:

roughbarked said:

I disagree. I’ve had homosexual friends for forty years and more.

Well there ya go. No problem then.

My point is that the bigger problem comes from those of younger generations that have deep seated religious indoctrination.

LOL! That was your point? Oh geeze.

AwesomeO said:

roughbarked said:

AwesomeO said:

Well there ya go. No problem then.

My point is that the bigger problem comes from those of younger generations that have deep seated religious indoctrination.

LOL! That was your point? Oh geeze.

Well, it certainly isn’t from those who have grown up in this environment. It is only true of those who have never ventured out of their indoctrinated space.

roughbarked said:

Cymek said:

roughbarked said:

I disagree. I’ve had homosexual friends for forty years and more.

I’ve never thought as gay people as a threat and most people my age are all for SSM.
I’ve always told my children its perfectly fine to be that way and not to judge them for it and they don’t.

It isn’t about us and them. We are all people. Some of us dare to be different, is all.

Yes

roughbarked said:

dv said:

Peak Warming Man said:

And anyway you can get that from nuts.

wahey matron

It is a long way to Brazil.

AwesomeO said:

roughbarked said:

AwesomeO said:

Well there ya go. No problem then.

My point is that the bigger problem comes from those of younger generations that have deep seated religious indoctrination.

LOL! That was your point? Oh geeze.

Something I think could happen is that if it passed as law, some religious organisation will shut shop instead of being made to marry them. A Mormon church in the USA did exactly this, closed a temple instead of being made to marry gay people even though it was now law.

dv said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

wahey matron

It is a long way to Brazil.

There’s something not right about that bloke.
Have a look at the size of his ear.

roughbarked said:

AwesomeO said:

roughbarked said:

My point is that the bigger problem comes from those of younger generations that have deep seated religious indoctrination.

LOL! That was your point? Oh geeze.

Well, it certainly isn’t from those who have grown up in this environment. It is only true of those who have never ventured out of their indoctrinated space.

You misunderstand, your point didn’t follow from your initial statement. Maybe next time start with your point.

AwesomeO said:

roughbarked said:

AwesomeO said:

LOL! That was your point? Oh geeze.

Well, it certainly isn’t from those who have grown up in this environment. It is only true of those who have never ventured out of their indoctrinated space.

You misunderstand, your point didn’t follow from your initial statement. Maybe next time start with your point.

lol

Peak Warming Man said:

dv said:

roughbarked said:

It is a long way to Brazil.

There’s something not right about that bloke.
Have a look at the size of his ear.

earshopped

Cymek said:

Something I think could happen is that if it passed as law, some religious organisation will shut shop instead of being made to marry them. A Mormon church in the USA did exactly this, closed a temple instead of being made to marry gay people even though it was now law.

No, churches have always been free to pick and choose the weddings they conduct. That’s not going to change with marriage equality legislation.

dv said:

Peak Warming Man said:

dv said:

There’s something not right about that bloke.
Have a look at the size of his ear.

earshopped

Or a ratman.

Bubblecar said:

Cymek said:

Something I think could happen is that if it passed as law, some religious organisation will shut shop instead of being made to marry them. A Mormon church in the USA did exactly this, closed a temple instead of being made to marry gay people even though it was now law.

No, churches have always been free to pick and choose the weddings they conduct. That’s not going to change with marriage equality legislation.

Besides. Only a small handful of people of same sex persuasion are going to want to be married in a church.

dv said:

I think it is probably fair to say that there are a lot of heterosexual men in their thirties and older who are somewhat unprepared for dealing with queers as people rather than as a threat.

This kind of abnormalisation is not common among young people, though, so we can probably hope that forty years from now this awkward phase will be pretty much dealt with.

I’d hope so but there will always be younger generations that have quite right wing values. Young people still support Hanson, vote no, and on and on.. I think that awkward phase will always be there. It was there in Roman times no doubt and never left.

Cymek said:

stan101 said:

Bubblecar said:

Some may feel uncomfortable (some people feel uncomfortable with any kind of communal nudity) but as I said, the simple solution is to provide more privacy (separate cubicles etc) in changing rooms.

And as I said before I agree with you that might be a scenario…

But I’m just starting to be mocked here so I’ll just say watch this space… It may be interesting in sports teams in time to come.

Wouldn’t the scenario already exist with gay sportspeople in locker rooms, SSM won’t change anything.

But there are no openly gay players in locker rooms in elite sport in Australia according to Todd Sampson… That aspect makes a hell of a lot of difference, wouldn’t you think..

stan101 said:

dv said:

I think it is probably fair to say that there are a lot of heterosexual men in their thirties and older who are somewhat unprepared for dealing with queers as people rather than as a threat.

This kind of abnormalisation is not common among young people, though, so we can probably hope that forty years from now this awkward phase will be pretty much dealt with.

I’d hope so but there will always be younger generations that have quite right wing values. Young people still support Hanson, vote no, and on and on.. I think that awkward phase will always be there. It was there in Roman times no doubt and never left.

Is the younger generation against SSM and gay people in general, wouldn’t it be normal and part of culture through pop culture and no big deal as they have grown up with it. You get SS kissing on tv shows aimed at younger people I assuming because they have no problem with it

Cymek said:

stan101 said:

Stumpy_seahorse said:

let me get this straight..

your apartment block has a pool, and instead of wrapping yourself in a towel and strolling back to your apartment to change, you down trow in public inf\front of a couple.. and you’re wondering if you should feel violated by their sideways glances?

Nice attempt but it lacked a few aspects to make is cutting or humorous.. But I find it interesting you don’t think that some elite players will not feel uncomfortable in such situations.

When you towel off do they use you as a towel rack

Jealous you couldn’t garner such attention? I might show the fellow swimmers the photo of your ass from the Car Broken Down thread… Their facial expressions might be priceless.

Cymek said:

stan101 said:

dv said:

I think it is probably fair to say that there are a lot of heterosexual men in their thirties and older who are somewhat unprepared for dealing with queers as people rather than as a threat.

This kind of abnormalisation is not common among young people, though, so we can probably hope that forty years from now this awkward phase will be pretty much dealt with.

I’d hope so but there will always be younger generations that have quite right wing values. Young people still support Hanson, vote no, and on and on.. I think that awkward phase will always be there. It was there in Roman times no doubt and never left.

Is the younger generation against SSM and gay people in general, wouldn’t it be normal and part of culture through pop culture and no big deal as they have grown up with it. You get SS kissing on tv shows aimed at younger people I assuming because they have no problem with it

Let’s hope so.

Looking at cleavage is like looking at the sun. You don’t stare at it. It’s too risky. Ya get a sense of it and then you look away.

AwesomeO said:

Looking at cleavage is like looking at the sun. You don’t stare at it. It’s too risky. Ya get a sense of it and then you look away.

THe cleavage increases in depth from an obtuse angle of view.

Cymek said:

stan101 said:

dv said:

I think it is probably fair to say that there are a lot of heterosexual men in their thirties and older who are somewhat unprepared for dealing with queers as people rather than as a threat.

This kind of abnormalisation is not common among young people, though, so we can probably hope that forty years from now this awkward phase will be pretty much dealt with.

I’d hope so but there will always be younger generations that have quite right wing values. Young people still support Hanson, vote no, and on and on.. I think that awkward phase will always be there. It was there in Roman times no doubt and never left.

Is the younger generation against SSM and gay people in general, wouldn’t it be normal and part of culture through pop culture and no big deal as they have grown up with it. You get SS kissing on tv shows aimed at younger people I assuming because they have no problem with it

wait.. what?

stan101 said:

Cymek said:

stan101 said:

And as I said before I agree with you that might be a scenario…

But I’m just starting to be mocked here so I’ll just say watch this space… It may be interesting in sports teams in time to come.

Wouldn’t the scenario already exist with gay sportspeople in locker rooms, SSM won’t change anything.

But there are no openly gay players in locker rooms in elite sport in Australia according to Todd Sampson… That aspect makes a hell of a lot of difference, wouldn’t you think..

Todd Sampson is quite the Australian Sports expert

stan101 said:

Cymek said:

stan101 said:

Nice attempt but it lacked a few aspects to make is cutting or humorous.. But I find it interesting you don’t think that some elite players will not feel uncomfortable in such situations.

When you towel off do they use you as a towel rack

Jealous you couldn’t garner such attention? I might show the fellow swimmers the photo of your ass from the Car Broken Down thread… Their facial expressions might be priceless.

I think if you check..

that’d be my uncle’s arse…

stan101 said:

Cymek said:

stan101 said:

And as I said before I agree with you that might be a scenario…

But I’m just starting to be mocked here so I’ll just say watch this space… It may be interesting in sports teams in time to come.

Wouldn’t the scenario already exist with gay sportspeople in locker rooms, SSM won’t change anything.

But there are no openly gay players in locker rooms in elite sport in Australia according to Todd Sampson… That aspect makes a hell of a lot of difference, wouldn’t you think..

Mmm, Roberts didn’t exactly open the floodgates.

Stumpy_seahorse said:

stan101 said:

Cymek said:

When you towel off do they use you as a towel rack

Jealous you couldn’t garner such attention? I might show the fellow swimmers the photo of your ass from the Car Broken Down thread… Their facial expressions might be priceless.

I think if you check..

that’d be my uncle’s arse…

Interesting you keep such photos..hmmmm

stan101 said:

Cymek said:

stan101 said:

And as I said before I agree with you that might be a scenario…

But I’m just starting to be mocked here so I’ll just say watch this space… It may be interesting in sports teams in time to come.

Wouldn’t the scenario already exist with gay sportspeople in locker rooms, SSM won’t change anything.

But there are no openly gay players in locker rooms in elite sport in Australia according to Todd Sampson… That aspect makes a hell of a lot of difference, wouldn’t you think..

there’s a few Aussies in there (including AFL)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_LGBT_sportspeople

Brian Anderson b. 1976 American Skateboarding G
Jennifer Abshire b. 1977 American IFBB professional bodybuilding B
Graham Ackerman b. 1983 American Gymnastics G
Nicola Adams b. 1982 English Boxing B
Marilyn Agliotti b. 1979 Dutch Field hockey L
Jenny Allard b. ? American Softball L
Kye Allums b. 1989 American Basketball T
John Amaechi b. 1970 English Basketball G
Eric Anderson b. 1968 American Coach G
Rhyian Anderson-Morley b. 1990 Australian Australian rules football G
Nadine Angerer b. 1978 German Football B
Alyson Annan b. 1973 Australian Field hockey L
Rebekka Armstrong b. 1967 American Bodybuilding B
Judith Arndt b. 1976 German Cycling L
Seimone Augustus b. 1984 American Basketball L
Mianne Bagger b. 1966 Danish Golf T
Aaron Baker b. 1960 American IFBB professional bodybuilding G
Clare Balding b. 1971 English Jockey L
Jason Ball b. 1988 Australian Australian rules football G
Shawnacy Barber b. 1994 Canadian Track and field G
Nicole Bass-Fuchs 1964–2017 American IFBB professional bodybuilding B
Betty Baxter b. 1952 Canadian Volleyball L
Billy Bean b. 1964 American Baseball G
Shelley Beattie 1967–2008 American IFBB professional bodybuilding B
Mack Beggs b. 1999 American Wrestling T
Kajsa Bergqvist b. 1976 Swedish Track and field B
Thomas Berling b. 1979 Norwegian Football G
Mark Bingham 1970–2001 American Rugby G
Sue Bird b. 1980 American Basketball L
Alex Blackwell b. 1983 Australian Cricket L
John Blankenstein 1949–2006 Dutch Football G
Brian Boitano b. 1963 American Figure skating G
Tom Bosworth b. 1990 British Race walker G
Yvette Bova b. 1962 American Bodybuilding B
Sabine Braun b. 1965 German Track and field L
Ashleigh Brazill b. 1989 Australian Netball L
Belle Brockhoff b. 1993 Australian Snowboard L
Giorgia Bronzini b. 1983 Italian Cycling L
Harrison Browne b. 1993 Canadian Ice hockey T
Chantal de Bruijn b. 1976 Dutch Field hockey L
Steve Buckley b. 1956 American Journalist G
Anastasia Bucsis b. 1989 Canadian Speed skating L
Brendan Burke 1988–2010 American Ice hockey G
Glenn Burke 1952–1995 American Baseball G
Kris Burley b. 1974 Canadian Gymnast G
Balian Buschbaum b. 1980 German Track and field T
Ivan Bussens 1960–2007 English Water polo G
Jeffrey Buttle b. 1982 Canadian Figure skating G
Latasha Byears b. 1973 American Basketball L
Caitlin Cahow b. 1985 American Ice hockey L
J. P. Calderon b. 1975 American Volleyball G
Liz Carmouche b. 1984 American MMA L
Betty Carstairs 1900–1993 English Motor racing L
Isadora Cerullo b. 1991 American-Brazilian Rugby L
Parinya Charoenphol b. 1981 Thai Boxing T
Jason Collins b. 1978 American Basketball G
Sean Conroy b. 1992 American Baseball G
Natalie Cook b. 1975 Australian Beach volleyball L
Rose Cossar b. 1991 Canadian Gymnastics L
Roberta Cowell 1918–2011 British Motor racing T
Gottfried von Cramm 1909–1976 German Tennis B
Scott Cranham b. 1954 Canadian Diver G
Toller Cranston 1949–2015 Canadian Figure skating B
Lisa Cross b. 1978 English IFBB professional bodybuilding B
Orlando Cruz b. 1981 Puerto-Rican Boxing G
John Curry 1949–1994 English Figure skating G
Donal Óg Cusack b. 1977 Irish Hurling G
Lisa Dahlkvist b. 1987 Swedish Football L
Tom Daley b. 1994 English Diving G
Steven Davies b. 1986 English Cricket G
Wade Davis b. 1977 American American football G
Elena Della Donne b. 1989 American Basketball L
Casey Dellacqua b. 1985 Australian Tennis L
David Denson b. 1995 American Baseball G
Chris Dickerson b. 1939 American IFBB professional bodybuilding G
Carlien Dirkse van den Heuvel b. 1987 Dutch Field hockey L
Michael Dos Santos b. 1983 Brazilian Volleyball G
Robert Dover b. 1956 American Equestrian G
Nancy Drolet b. 1973 Canadian Ice hockey L
Michelle Duff b. 1939 Canadian Motor racing T
Christian Duffy b. 1961 American IFBB professional bodybuilding B
Michelle Dumaresq b. 1971 Canadian Mountain biking T
Imke Duplitzer b. 1975 German Fencing L
Emilia Fahlin b. 1988 Swedish Cycling L
Justin Fashanu 1961–1998 English Football G
Freda du Faur 1882–1935 Australian Mountaineering L
John Fennell b. 1995 Canadian Luge G
Gigi Fernández b. 1964 Puerto-Rican Tennis L
Nilla Fischer b. 1984 Swedish Football L
Amini Fonua b. 1989 Tongan/New Zealand Swimming G
Fallon Fox b. 1975 American MMA T
Larissa Franca b. 1982 Brazilian Beach volleyball L
Travon Free b. 1984/1985 American Basketball B
Edward Gal b. 1970 Dutch Equestrian G
Rudy Galindo b. 1969 American Figure skating G
Vicky Galindo b. 1983 American Softball B
Ed Gallagher 1958–2005 American American football G
Melanie Garside-Wight b. 1979 English Football L
Terry Garvin 1937-1998 Canadian Wrestling G
Jane Geddes b. 1960 American Golf L
Alan Gendreau b. 1989 American American football G
Derrick Gordon b. 1991 American Basketball G
Bobby Goldsmith 1946–1983 Australian Swimming G
Andrew Goldstein b. 1983 American Lacrosse G
LZ Granderson b. 1972 American Journalist G
Emile Griffith 1938–2013 American Boxing B
Brittney Griner b. 1990 American Basketball L
Joan Guetschow b. 1966 American Biathlon L
Peter Häggström b. 1976 Swedish Track and field G
Matthew Hall b. 1970 Canadian Figure skating G
Gro Hammerseng b. 1980 Norwegian Handball L
Alan Hansford b. 1968 English Cricket G
Kwame Harris b. 1982 American American football G
Kyle Hawkins b. 1970 American Lacrosse G
Bruce Hayes b. 1963 American Swimming G
Sandra Haynie b. 1943 American Golf L
Jayna Hefford b. 1977 Canadian Ice hockey L
Mathew Helm b. 1980 Australian Diving G
Isabell Herlovsen b. 1988 Norwegian Football L
Carl Hester b. 1967 British Equestrian G
Keegan Hirst b. 1988 British Rugby G
Thomas Hitzlsperger b. 1982 German Football G
Edel Therese Høiseth b. 1966 Norwegian Speed skating L
Ursula Holl b. 1982 German Football L
Erika Holst b. 1979 Swedish Ice hockey L
Laurel Hubbard b. 1978 New Zealand Weightlifting T
Karen Hultzer b. 1965 SouthAfrican Archery L
Mia Hundvin b. 1977 Norwegian Handball B
Anton Hysén b. 1990 Swedish Football G
Daniela Iraschko-Stolz b. 1983 Austrian Ski jumper L
George Ives 1867–1950 English Cricket G
Helen Jacobs 1908–1997 American Tennis L
Angela James b. 1964 Canadian Ice hockey L
Patrick Jeffrey b. 1965 American Diving G
Dorte Dalum Jensen b. 1978 Danish Football L
Barbara Jezeršek b. 1986 Slovenian Cross-country skiing L
Glory Johnson b. 1990 American Basketball L
Gus Johnston b. 1979 Australian Field hockey G
Rosie Jones b. 1959 American Golf L
Steffi Jones b. 1972 American-German Football L
Orlando Jordan b. 1974 American Wrestling B
Natasha Kai b. 1983 American Football L
Chris Kanyon 1970–2010 American Wrestling G
Maud Kaptheijns b. 1994 Dutch Cyclocross L
Peter Karlsson 1966–1995 Swedish Ice hockey G
Kathleen Kauth b. 1979 American Ice hockey L
Johan Kenkhuis b. 1980 Dutch Swimming G
Gus Kenworthy b. 1991 American Freestyle skiing G
Sanne van Kerkhof b. 1987 Dutch Speed skating L
Lotte Kiærskou b. 1975 Danish Handball L
Billie Jean King b. 1943 American Tennis L
Sandra Kirby b. 1949 Canadian Rowing L
Stine Brun Kjeldaas b. 1975 Norwegian Snowboard L
Ilana Kloss b. 1956 American Tennis L
Dominik Koll b. 1984 Austrian Swimming G
David Kopay b. 1942 American American football G
Daniel Kowalski b. 1975 Australian Swimming G
Andreas Krieger b. 1966 German Track and field T
Janae Marie Kroc b. 1972 American Powerlifting T / B
Charline Labonté b. 1982 Canadian Ice hockey L
Alexandra Lacrabère b. 1987 French Handball L
Kim Lammers b. 1981 Dutch Field hockey L
Jessica Landström b. 1984 Swedish Football L
Lauren Lappin b. 1984 American Softball L
Mark Leduc 1962–2009 Canadian Boxing G
Hedvig Lindahl b. 1983 Swedish Football L
Ylva Lindberg b. 1976 Swedish Ice hockey L
Lori Lindsey b. 1980 American Football L
Matthew Lister b. 1992 British Canoeing G
Ari-Pekka Liukkonen b. 1989 Finnish Swimming G
Joanna Lohman b. 1982 American Football L
Greg Louganis b. 1960 American Diving G
Cheryl Maas b. 1984 Dutch Snowboard L
Yusaf Mack b. 1980 American Boxing G
Liliane Maestrini b. 1987 Brazilian Beach volleyball L
Hana Mandlíková b. 1962 Czech Tennis L
Brian Marshall b. 1965 Canadian High jump G
Christy Martin b. 1968 American Boxing L
Amélie Mauresmo b. 1979 French Tennis L
Stephany Mayor b. 1991 Mexican Football B
Marnie McBean b. 1968 Canadian Rowing L
Robert McCall 1958–1991 Canadian Figure skating G
Ray McDonald 1944–1993 American American football G
Lindsy McLean b. 1938 American American football G
Linda Medalen b. 1965 Norwegian Football L
Conner Mertens b. 1994/1995 American American football B
Harriet Metcalf b. 1958 American Rowing L
Hans Peter Minderhoud b. 1973 Dutch Equestrian G
Matthew Mitcham b. 1988 Australian Diving G
Eric Mitchell b. 1992 Canadian Ski jumping G
Chris Morgan b. 1973 English Powerlifting G
Jim Morris 1936–2016 American IFBB professional bodybuilding G
Chris Mosier b. 1980 American Triathlete T
Nadine Müller b. 1985 German Discus throwing L
Martina Navratilova b. 1956 Czech-American Tennis L
Ondrej Nepela 1951–1989 Slovakian Figure skating G
Robert Newton b. 1981 English Track and field G
Bente Nordby b. 1974 Norwegian Football L
Scott Norton b. 1982 American Bowling G
Diana Nyad b. 1949 American Swimming L
Katja Nyberg b. 1979 Swedish Handball L
Graeme Obree b. 1965 Scottish Cycling G
Ryan O’Callaghan b. 1983 American American football G
Ryan O’Meara b. 1984 American Ice dancing G
Brian Orser b. 1961 Canadian Figure skating G
Nigel Owens b. 1971 Welsh Rugby G
Dave Pallone b. 1951 American Baseball G
Bob Paris b. 1959 Canadian-American IFBB professional bodybuilding G
Sandy Parker b. 1952 Canadian Wrestling L
Lily Parr 1905–1978 English Football L
Anja Pärson b. 1981 Swedish Downhill skiing L
Pat Patterson b. 1941 Canadian Wrestling G
Maartje Paumen b. 1985 Dutch Field hockey L
Lee Pearson b. 1974 English Equestrian G
Otto Peltzer 1900–1970 German Track and field G
Mike Penner 1957–2009 American Journalist T
Beate Peters b. 1959 German Track and field L
David Pichler b. 1968 American Diving G
Aslie Pitter b. 1960 English Football G
Brian Pockar 1959–1992 Canadian Figure skating G
Hope Powell b. 1966 English Football L
Lauren Powers b. 1961 American Bodybuilding B
Eric Radford b. 1985 Canadian Figure skating G
Megan Rapinoe b. 1985 American Football L
Lisa Raymond b. 1973 American Tennis L
Stephen Rhodes b. 1984 American Motor racing G
Renée Richards b. 1934 American Tennis T
Helen Richardson-Walsh b. 1981 British Field hockey L
Kate Richardson-Walsh b. 1980 British Field hockey L
Lucia Rijker b. 1967 Dutch Kickboxing B
Ian Roberts b. 1965 Australian Rugby league G
Ronald Robertson 1937–2000 American Figure skating G
Robbie Rogers b. 1987 American Football G
Petra Rossner b. 1966 German Cycling L
Olivier Rouyer b. 1955 French Football G
Matthew Rush b. 1972 American Bodybuilding G
Jaiyah Saelua b. 1988 Samoan Football T
Angela Salvagno b. 1976 American IFBB professional bodybuilding B
Michael Sam b. 1990 American American football G
Victoria Sandell Svensson b. 1977 Swedish Football L
Lianne Sanderson b. 1988 English Football L
Chip Sarafin b. ? American American football G
Christopher Saynt b. 1993 Scottish Wrestling G
Erik Schinegger b. 1948 Austrian Downhill skiing T
Dale Scott b. 1959 American Baseball G
Caroline Seger b. 1985 Swedish Football L
Jack Sexsmith b. 1992 English Wrestling P
Patty Sheehan b. 1956 American Golf L
Will Sheridan b. 1985 American Basketball G
Bianca Sierra b. 1992 American Football B
Jackie Silva b. 1962 Brazilian Beach volleyball L
Eudy Simelane 1977–2008 South African Football L
Roy Simmons 1956–2014 American American football G
Brian Sims b. 1978 American American football G
Blake Skjellerup b. 1985 New Zealander Speed skating G
Vibeke Skofterud b. 1980 Norwegian Cross country skiing B
Rikke Skov b. 1980 Danish Handball L
Jerry Smith 1943–1986 American American football B
Judy Sowinski 1940–2011 American Roller derby L
Muffin Spencer-Devlin b. 1953 American Golf L
Helen Stephens 1918–1994 American Track and field L
Casey Stoney b. 1982 English Football L
Beth Storry b. 1978 British Field hockey L
Rennae Stubbs b. 1971 Australian Tennis L
Pia Sundhage b. 1960 Swedish Football L
Stacy Sykora b. 1977 American Volleyball L
Blyth Tait b. 1961 New Zealander Equestrian G
Connor Taras b. ? Canadian Kayak G
David Testo b. 1981 American Football G
Ina-Yoko Teutenberg b. 1974 German Cycling L
Mark Tewksbury b. 1968 Canadian Swimming G
Carole Thate b. 1971 Dutch Field hockey L
Gareth Thomas b. 1974 Welsh Rugby G
Ian Thorpe b. 1982 Australian Swimming G
Bill Tilden 1893–1953 American Tennis G
Ted Tinling 1910–1990 English Tennis G
Emma Trott b. 1989 British Cycling L
Esera Tuaolo b. 1968 American American football G
Marcus Urban b. 1971 German Football G
Sarah Vaillancourt b. 1985 Canadian Ice hockey L
Michele Van Gorp b. 1977 American Basketball L
Dan Veatch b. 1965 American Swimming G
Laura Verdonschot b. 1996 Belgian Cyclocross L
Mike Verschuur b. 1987 Dutch Motor racing G
Linda Villumsen b. 1985 New Zealand Cycling L
Lisa-Marie Vizaniari b. 1971 Australian Track and field, boxing L
Chris Voth b. 1990 Canadian Indoor volleyball G
Tom Waddell 1937–1987 American Decathlon; creator of the Gay Games G
Kira Walkenhorst b. 1990 German Beach volleyball L
Jackie Walker 1950—2002 American American football G
Louisa Wall b. 1972 New Zealander Rugby L
Ji Wallace b. 1977 Australian Gymnastics G
Sarah Walsh b. 1983 Australian Football L
Abby Wambach b. 1980 American Football L
Jeffrey Wammes b. 1987 Dutch Gymnastics G
Ann Wauters b. 1980 Belgian Basketball L
Saskia Webber b. 1971 American Football L
Johnny Weir b. 1984 American Figure skating G
Rick Welts b. 1953 American Basketball executive G
Peter Wherrett 1936–2009 Australian Motor racing T
Diane Whipple 1968–2001 American Lacrosse L
Sue Wicks b. 1966 American Basketball L
Marieke Wijsman b. 1975 Dutch Speed skating L
Marlon Williams b. 1988 American American football B
David Wilson b. 1966 Canadian Figure skating G
Keelin Winters b. 1988 American Football L
Paul Wirtz 1958–2006 Canadian Figure skating G
Chris Witty b. 1975 American Speed skating L
Andrea Worrall b. 1977 Welsh Football L
Ireen Wüst b. 1986 Dutch Speed skating B
Alissa Wykes b. 1967 American American football L
Darren Young b. 1983 American Wrestling G
Sharnee Zoll-Norman b. 1986 American Basketball L

dv said:

stan101 said:

Cymek said:

Wouldn’t the scenario already exist with gay sportspeople in locker rooms, SSM won’t change anything.

But there are no openly gay players in locker rooms in elite sport in Australia according to Todd Sampson… That aspect makes a hell of a lot of difference, wouldn’t you think..

Mmm, Roberts didn’t exactly open the floodgates.

I mentioned Roberts before… And again, this was not me saying it… It was Todd Sampson.. I thought he was the bastion of all the was equal in life :)

stan101 said:

Stumpy_seahorse said:

stan101 said:

Jealous you couldn’t garner such attention? I might show the fellow swimmers the photo of your ass from the Car Broken Down thread… Their facial expressions might be priceless.

I think if you check..

that’d be my uncle’s arse…

Interesting you keep such photos..hmmmm

at least I keep my strides on around the neighbours..

Stumpy_seahorse said:

Cymek said:

stan101 said:

I’d hope so but there will always be younger generations that have quite right wing values. Young people still support Hanson, vote no, and on and on.. I think that awkward phase will always be there. It was there in Roman times no doubt and never left.

Is the younger generation against SSM and gay people in general, wouldn’t it be normal and part of culture through pop culture and no big deal as they have grown up with it. You get SS kissing on tv shows aimed at younger people I assuming because they have no problem with it

wait.. what?

People seem to think younger generations are against SSM and gay people but I’d have thought most of them would be the least against it. Shows aimed at young adults often seem to have gay relationships in them that includes kissing. If you made tv shows aimed at young adults wouldn’t you put in scenes they’d feel comfortable with.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Wherrett
Peter Wherrett wrote a memoir entitled Desirelines with his brother Richard, who died in 2001. The book recounted Peter’s interest in cross-dressing. As a child, Peter discovered their mother being abused by their father which led to an “empathy for his mother as an abused wife, and passion for women generally”. He later discovered his father was also a cross-dresser and consulted a psychiatrist who said that Peter’s behaviour was obsessive but harmless. Peter went on to write The Gender Trap which examined the “compulsive nature of cross-dressing”.
After Wherrett and Mathers separated in 2006, Peter went to live as a woman, Pip Wilson, at Lake Macquarie. Pip lived as a woman for the last two years of her life, and she described this as “my last great achievement”. Wherrett died in 2009 from prostate cancer.

Cymek said:

Stumpy_seahorse said:

Cymek said:

Is the younger generation against SSM and gay people in general, wouldn’t it be normal and part of culture through pop culture and no big deal as they have grown up with it. You get SS kissing on tv shows aimed at younger people I assuming because they have no problem with it

wait.. what?

People seem to think younger generations are against SSM and gay people but I’d have thought most of them would be the least against it. Shows aimed at young adults often seem to have gay relationships in them that includes kissing. If you made tv shows aimed at young adults wouldn’t you put in scenes they’d feel comfortable with.

I get that, but it wasn’t me kissing on tv shows.. I think i would have noticed..

Stumpy_seahorse said:

stan101 said:

Stumpy_seahorse said:

I think if you check..

that’d be my uncle’s arse…

Interesting you keep such photos..hmmmm

at least I keep my strides on around the neighbours..

If you follow your uncles genes it sounds like you don’t have any choice in the matter? Anyway, are you a bit shy to change in change rooms? You should man up a bit. It is only a body.

Stumpy_seahorse said:

Cymek said:

Stumpy_seahorse said:

wait.. what?

People seem to think younger generations are against SSM and gay people but I’d have thought most of them would be the least against it. Shows aimed at young adults often seem to have gay relationships in them that includes kissing. If you made tv shows aimed at young adults wouldn’t you put in scenes they’d feel comfortable with.

I get that, but it wasn’t me kissing on tv shows.. I think i would have noticed..

Oh SS, yeah same sex not Stumpy_seahorse

stan101 said:

Stumpy_seahorse said:

stan101 said:

Interesting you keep such photos..hmmmm

at least I keep my strides on around the neighbours..

If you follow your uncles genes it sounds like you don’t have any choice in the matter? Anyway, are you a bit shy to change in change rooms? You should man up a bit. It is only a body.

>>Anyway, are you a bit shy to change in change rooms? You should man up a bit. It is only a body.

and you have just answered your own OP..

(and good use of the incest slur the_observer)

Stumpy_seahorse said:

stan101 said:

Cymek said:

Wouldn’t the scenario already exist with gay sportspeople in locker rooms, SSM won’t change anything.

But there are no openly gay players in locker rooms in elite sport in Australia according to Todd Sampson… That aspect makes a hell of a lot of difference, wouldn’t you think..

there’s a few Aussies in there (including AFL)

There are two in that list. That’s less than a few.

And they were in 1988 and 1990 respectively. Not sure if they were openly gay when playing and guessing they haven’t been in an elite sport change room lately so I don’t think Todd would accept that answer. Go back to staying fully clothed or only changing with the lights off.

Stumpy_seahorse said:

stan101 said:

Stumpy_seahorse said:

at least I keep my strides on around the neighbours..

If you follow your uncles genes it sounds like you don’t have any choice in the matter? Anyway, are you a bit shy to change in change rooms? You should man up a bit. It is only a body.

>>Anyway, are you a bit shy to change in change rooms? You should man up a bit. It is only a body.

and you have just answered your own OP..

(and good use of the incest slur the_observer)

What incest slur? When is saying your Uncle is a bit portly and probably not attractive to my exercise loving neighbours or anyone else for that matter incestuous? So you throw the first barb and now you are all concerned and hurt? You throw them, I’ll fire them back in as much jest and mockery.

I actually thought you would be better than that..

And no I am not hat person you claim I am.

stan101 said:

Stumpy_seahorse said:

stan101 said:

But there are no openly gay players in locker rooms in elite sport in Australia according to Todd Sampson… That aspect makes a hell of a lot of difference, wouldn’t you think..

there’s a few Aussies in there (including AFL)

There are two in that list. That’s less than a few.

And they were in 1988 and 1990 respectively. Not sure if they were openly gay when playing and guessing they haven’t been in an elite sport change room lately so I don’t think Todd would accept that answer. Go back to staying fully clothed or only changing with the lights off.

and the field hockey player, the gymnast, beach volleyballer, tennis player….

Anyway, your OP doesn’t proclude other countries, Australia doesn’t have a monopoly on LGBTI sports elite..

stan101 said:

Stumpy_seahorse said:

stan101 said:

If you follow your uncles genes it sounds like you don’t have any choice in the matter? Anyway, are you a bit shy to change in change rooms? You should man up a bit. It is only a body.

>>Anyway, are you a bit shy to change in change rooms? You should man up a bit. It is only a body.

and you have just answered your own OP..

(and good use of the incest slur the_observer)

What incest slur? When is saying your Uncle is a bit portly and probably not attractive to my exercise loving neighbours or anyone else for that matter incestuous? So you throw the first barb and now you are all concerned and hurt? You throw them, I’ll fire them back in as much jest and mockery.

I actually thought you would be better than that..

And no I am not hat person you claim I am.

what barb have I thrown?
you posted a situation that you experience often, I gave my opinion on it and a different viewpoint than you.
You brought my photo into it and insinuated incest, just like the observer when he has painted himself into a corner.

Stumpy_seahorse said:

stan101 said:

Stumpy_seahorse said:

there’s a few Aussies in there (including AFL)

There are two in that list. That’s less than a few.

And they were in 1988 and 1990 respectively. Not sure if they were openly gay when playing and guessing they haven’t been in an elite sport change room lately so I don’t think Todd would accept that answer. Go back to staying fully clothed or only changing with the lights off.

and the field hockey player, the gymnast, beach volleyballer, tennis player….

Anyway, your OP doesn’t proclude other countries, Australia doesn’t have a monopoly on LGBTI sports elite..

My OP mentioned major codes. Tennis might get a call there. The others aren’t even a blip on the major Australian sports. The Australian was implied by what Todd Sampson discussed about the AFL and the follow on to that which I did mention in the OP. I’ll type slower next time so you can understand and keep up hehe. :)

What gets me is the ego on some straight men, that they think they’re such sexual magnets that gay men will just not be able to resist them. They really think that they are that irresistible that the first thing a gay man wants to do is to oggle, perv and jump their pants?

There are far better and easily accessed places to go rather than footy club change rooms.

Let’s look at gay SOP (sex on premises) venues. All standing around, in the showers, sauna or spa, or just standing against the wall, towel, or nothing clad. Nup…. nup… blyerk…. nup… nup… not that one… nup… NEXT!!!! Stuff this. Nothing here tonight. Think I’ll go home. Now let’s put a straight man in that environment. Chances are you’ll go home alone too, and have no say in the matter.

Ya not that gorgeous, ya know, that every gay man wants to jump ya pants. Get over it.

Woodie said:

What gets me is the ego on some straight men, that they think they’re such sexual magnets that gay men will just not be able to resist them. They really think that they are that irresistible that the first thing a gay man wants to do is to oggle, perv and jump their pants?

There are far better and easily accessed places to go rather than footy club change rooms.

Let’s look at gay SOP (sex on premises) venues. All standing around, in the showers, sauna or spa, or just standing against the wall, towel, or nothing clad. Nup…. nup… blyerk…. nup… nup… not that one… nup… NEXT!!!! Stuff this. Nothing here tonight. Think I’ll go home. Now let’s put a straight man in that environment. Chances are you’ll go home alone too, and have no say in the matter.

Ya not that gorgeous, ya know, that every gay man wants to jump ya pants. Get over it.

Mixed messages I’m sure. Such men only see themselves. It is all about that.

Woodie said:

What gets me is the ego on some straight men, that they think they’re such sexual magnets that gay men will just not be able to resist them. They really think that they are that irresistible that the first thing a gay man wants to do is to oggle, perv and jump their pants?

There are far better and easily accessed places to go rather than footy club change rooms.

Let’s look at gay SOP (sex on premises) venues. All standing around, in the showers, sauna or spa, or just standing against the wall, towel, or nothing clad. Nup…. nup… blyerk…. nup… nup… not that one… nup… NEXT!!!! Stuff this. Nothing here tonight. Think I’ll go home. Now let’s put a straight man in that environment. Chances are you’ll go home alone too, and have no say in the matter.

Ya not that gorgeous, ya know, that every gay man wants to jump ya pants. Get over it.

Think it is more the distastefulness of what you describe that straight people find so unpleasant.

esselte said:

diddly-squat said:

People can’t see the blatant discrimination that is leveled against LGBTIQ people

I do see discrimination in a cultural and legal sense, most obviously with the question of SSM. What I don’t see in day-to-day life is individuals openly discriminating against or harassing homosexuals for being gay.

Maybe it’s just my social circle, maybe I just don’t know many of the people who are out there discriminating against gays regularly.

You need to get out a bit more, Esselte. This was the third thing in my Facebook feed.

Cardinal Burke

….. and I’m not to sure where you’ve been over the last few weeks, with this government’s biggest, endorsed, legitimised and condoned poofter bashing exercise this country has ever seen. Diddly can see it. Why can’t you?

PermeateFree said:

Think it is more the distastefulness of what you describe that straight people find so unpleasant.

Easy solution: don’t visit gay saunas.

And don’t assume that a gay man in a sports changing room is going to think he’s in a gay sauna.

Bubblecar said:

PermeateFree said:

Think it is more the distastefulness of what you describe that straight people find so unpleasant.

Easy solution: don’t visit gay saunas.

And don’t assume that a gay man in a sports changing room is going to think he’s in a gay sauna.

…although as I pointed out, gay saunas are generally civil places with rules and a well-established etiquette.

Bubblecar said:

PermeateFree said:

Think it is more the distastefulness of what you describe that straight people find so unpleasant.

Easy solution: don’t visit gay saunas.

And don’t assume that a gay man in a sports changing room is going to think he’s in a gay sauna.

Easier solution, don’t flaunt your sexuality.

Bubblecar said:

…although as I pointed out, gay saunas are generally civil places with rules and a well-established etiquette.

Very much so.

PermeateFree said:

Bubblecar said:

PermeateFree said:

Think it is more the distastefulness of what you describe that straight people find so unpleasant.

Easy solution: don’t visit gay saunas.

And don’t assume that a gay man in a sports changing room is going to think he’s in a gay sauna.

Easier solution, don’t flaunt your sexuality.

Easier solution, realise that sexuality is unimportant any more.

PermeateFree said:

Bubblecar said:

PermeateFree said:

Think it is more the distastefulness of what you describe that straight people find so unpleasant.

Easy solution: don’t visit gay saunas.

And don’t assume that a gay man in a sports changing room is going to think he’s in a gay sauna.

Easier solution, don’t flaunt your sexuality.

Who’s “flaunting their sexuality”? We’re replying to a thread in which stan101 solicited our opinions.

Woodie said:

esselte said:

diddly-squat said:

People can’t see the blatant discrimination that is leveled against LGBTIQ people

I do see discrimination in a cultural and legal sense, most obviously with the question of SSM. What I don’t see in day-to-day life is individuals openly discriminating against or harassing homosexuals for being gay.

Maybe it’s just my social circle, maybe I just don’t know many of the people who are out there discriminating against gays regularly.

You need to get out a bit more, Esselte. This was the third thing in my Facebook feed.

Cardinal Burke

….. and I’m not to sure where you’ve been over the last few weeks, with this government’s biggest, endorsed, legitimised and condoned poofter bashing exercise this country has ever seen. Diddly can see it. Why can’t you?

Like Esselte, I haven’t noticed much poofter bashing, but I have noticed a number of Drama Queens.

Woodie said:

Bubblecar said:

…although as I pointed out, gay saunas are generally civil places with rules and a well-established etiquette.

Very much so.

Not what you said a few posts back.

PermeateFree said:

Woodie said:

esselte said:

I do see discrimination in a cultural and legal sense, most obviously with the question of SSM. What I don’t see in day-to-day life is individuals openly discriminating against or harassing homosexuals for being gay.

Maybe it’s just my social circle, maybe I just don’t know many of the people who are out there discriminating against gays regularly.

You need to get out a bit more, Esselte. This was the third thing in my Facebook feed.

Cardinal Burke

….. and I’m not to sure where you’ve been over the last few weeks, with this government’s biggest, endorsed, legitimised and condoned poofter bashing exercise this country has ever seen. Diddly can see it. Why can’t you?

Like Esselte, I haven’t noticed much poofter bashing, but I have noticed a number of Drama Queens.

sigh.

Bubblecar said:

PermeateFree said:

Bubblecar said:

Easy solution: don’t visit gay saunas.

And don’t assume that a gay man in a sports changing room is going to think he’s in a gay sauna.

Easier solution, don’t flaunt your sexuality.

Who’s “flaunting their sexuality”? We’re replying to a thread in which stan101 solicited our opinions.

Yes dear.

PermeateFree said:

Easier solution, don’t flaunt your sexuality.

Heterosexuality is flaunted at me all over the tele every night. Just got to watch the promos for Neighbours or Home and Away et al.

Woodie said:

PermeateFree said:

Easier solution, don’t flaunt your sexuality.

Heterosexuality is flaunted at me all over the tele every night. Just got to watch the promos for Neighbours or Home and Away et al.

Most of us would say, get a room.

Woodie said:

PermeateFree said:

Easier solution, don’t flaunt your sexuality.

Heterosexuality is flaunted at me all over the tele every night. Just got to watch the promos for Neighbours or Home and Away et al.

yeah, but that’s acceptable.

;-)

i doubt there is much difference between a straight nightclub and a gay one. though i have frequented the former a lot more than the latter.

ChrispenEvan said:

Woodie said:

PermeateFree said:

Easier solution, don’t flaunt your sexuality.

Heterosexuality is flaunted at me all over the tele every night. Just got to watch the promos for Neighbours or Home and Away et al.

yeah, but that’s acceptable.

;-)

i doubt there is much difference between a straight nightclub and a gay one. though i have frequented the former a lot more than the latter.

I’ve been stared at with disdain in both :)

PermeateFree said:

Woodie said:

Bubblecar said:

…although as I pointed out, gay saunas are generally civil places with rules and a well-established etiquette.

Very much so.

Not what you said a few posts back.

Have you been to a SOP venue?

Woodie said:

PermeateFree said:

Woodie said:

Very much so.

Not what you said a few posts back.

Have you been to a SOP venue?

You are the one describing what goes on there, not me.

PermeateFree said:

Woodie said:

Bubblecar said:

…although as I pointed out, gay saunas are generally civil places with rules and a well-established etiquette.

Very much so.

Not what you said a few posts back.

I invite you to visit a SOP venue with me to see for yourself the well established etiquette and rules of such places.

roughbarked said:

Woodie said:

PermeateFree said:

Easier solution, don’t flaunt your sexuality.

Heterosexuality is flaunted at me all over the tele every night. Just got to watch the promos for Neighbours or Home and Away et al.

Most of us would say, get a room.

In my time, homosexuality went from illegal to ‘only do at home’, to wherever it is now.
Heterosexuality was mostly behind closed doors as well.

Point is here, are we discussing what we are watching on TV or what we do in real life?

Our sexual lives are essentially a private matter. Unless of course you want to talk about it.
If I could get more of it, I wouldn’t tell anybody. ;)

This is generally the situation in real life everywhere. Hetero or homo.

sibeen said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Woodie said:

Heterosexuality is flaunted at me all over the tele every night. Just got to watch the promos for Neighbours or Home and Away et al.

yeah, but that’s acceptable.

;-)

i doubt there is much difference between a straight nightclub and a gay one. though i have frequented the former a lot more than the latter.

I’ve been stared at with disdain in both :)

I’m not the only one..

Woodie said:

PermeateFree said:

Woodie said:

Very much so.

Not what you said a few posts back.

I invite you to visit a SOP venue with me to see for yourself the well established etiquette and rules of such places.

Look, I am just replying you what you said in your post. If it wasn’t true, why did you say it?

ChrispenEvan said:

Woodie said:

PermeateFree said:

Easier solution, don’t flaunt your sexuality.

Heterosexuality is flaunted at me all over the tele every night. Just got to watch the promos for Neighbours or Home and Away et al.

yeah, but that’s acceptable.

;-)

i doubt there is much difference between a straight nightclub and a gay one. though i have frequented the former a lot more than the latter.

I have seen far far far far … fills page far far far more punchups in straight nightclubs and bars than gay ones. A lot due to inappropriate advances by one bloke on another bloke’s girlfriend.

Woodie said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Woodie said:

Heterosexuality is flaunted at me all over the tele every night. Just got to watch the promos for Neighbours or Home and Away et al.

yeah, but that’s acceptable.

;-)

i doubt there is much difference between a straight nightclub and a gay one. though i have frequented the former a lot more than the latter.

I have seen far far far far … fills page far far far more punchups in straight nightclubs and bars than gay ones. A lot due to inappropriate advances by one bloke on another bloke’s girlfriend.

Might have more to do with higher testosterone levels.

Woodie said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Woodie said:

Heterosexuality is flaunted at me all over the tele every night. Just got to watch the promos for Neighbours or Home and Away et al.

yeah, but that’s acceptable.

;-)

i doubt there is much difference between a straight nightclub and a gay one. though i have frequented the former a lot more than the latter.

I have seen far far far far … fills page far far far more punchups in straight nightclubs and bars than gay ones. A lot due to inappropriate advances by one bloke on another bloke’s girlfriend.

Are you saying that there aren’t punchups over another bloke’s boyfriend?

PermeateFree said:

Woodie said:

PermeateFree said:

Not what you said a few posts back.

Have you been to a SOP venue?

You are the one describing what goes on there, not me.

As I said, Mr Free. Strict code of conduct and rules of etiquette. And no big burly ten ton bouncers around at all.

PermeateFree said:

Woodie said:

ChrispenEvan said:

yeah, but that’s acceptable.

;-)

i doubt there is much difference between a straight nightclub and a gay one. though i have frequented the former a lot more than the latter.

I have seen far far far far … fills page far far far more punchups in straight nightclubs and bars than gay ones. A lot due to inappropriate advances by one bloke on another bloke’s girlfriend.

Might have more to do with higher testosterone levels.

or more to do with the lack of chicks with tits.

Woodie said:

PermeateFree said:

Woodie said:

Have you been to a SOP venue?

You are the one describing what goes on there, not me.

As I said, Mr Free. Strict code of conduct and rules of etiquette. And no big burly ten ton bouncers around at all.

Just a meat market, not for sale but for the asking.

Woodie said:

What gets me is the ego on some straight men, that they think they’re such sexual magnets that gay men will just not be able to resist them. They really think that they are that irresistible that the first thing a gay man wants to do is to oggle, perv and jump their pants?

There are far better and easily accessed places to go rather than footy club change rooms.

Let’s look at gay SOP (sex on premises) venues. All standing around, in the showers, sauna or spa, or just standing against the wall, towel, or nothing clad. Nup…. nup… blyerk…. nup… nup… not that one… nup… NEXT!!!! Stuff this. Nothing here tonight. Think I’ll go home. Now let’s put a straight man in that environment. Chances are you’ll go home alone too, and have no say in the matter.

Ya not that gorgeous, ya know, that every gay man wants to jump ya pants. Get over it.

I assume you are talking about the above Permeate Free? That was more about the internal monologue of people at saunas. We don’t actually dismiss the undesirable fellas in such harsh terms. Like Woodie says there is a very set etiquette involved.

PermeateFree said:

Woodie said:

PermeateFree said:

You are the one describing what goes on there, not me.

As I said, Mr Free. Strict code of conduct and rules of etiquette. And no big burly ten ton bouncers around at all.

Just a meat market, not for sale but for the asking.

and chicks with tits are?

PermeateFree said:

Woodie said:

PermeateFree said:

Not what you said a few posts back.

I invite you to visit a SOP venue with me to see for yourself the well established etiquette and rules of such places.

Look, I am just replying you what you said in your post. If it wasn’t true, why did you say it?

F what wasn’t true? confused

Woodie said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Woodie said:

Heterosexuality is flaunted at me all over the tele every night. Just got to watch the promos for Neighbours or Home and Away et al.

yeah, but that’s acceptable.

;-)

i doubt there is much difference between a straight nightclub and a gay one. though i have frequented the former a lot more than the latter.

I have seen far far far far … fills page far far far more punchups in straight nightclubs and bars than gay ones. A lot due to inappropriate advances by one bloke on another bloke’s girlfriend.

must say that when I went, mainly darwin, it was a long time ago, and that wasn’t such a big thing then and there.

Woodie said:

PermeateFree said:

Woodie said:

I invite you to visit a SOP venue with me to see for yourself the well established etiquette and rules of such places.

Look, I am just replying you what you said in your post. If it wasn’t true, why did you say it?

F what wasn’t true? confused

Permeate is assuming you actually went up to the men you weren’t interested in and said “blerk” :)

PermeateFree said:

Woodie said:

ChrispenEvan said:

yeah, but that’s acceptable.

;-)

i doubt there is much difference between a straight nightclub and a gay one. though i have frequented the former a lot more than the latter.

I have seen far far far far … fills page far far far more punchups in straight nightclubs and bars than gay ones. A lot due to inappropriate advances by one bloke on another bloke’s girlfriend.

Might have more to do with higher testosterone levels.

Wah??? (If that was meant to be some attempt at humour…. hehehehehe)

Woodie said:

PermeateFree said:

Woodie said:

I invite you to visit a SOP venue with me to see for yourself the well established etiquette and rules of such places.

Look, I am just replying you what you said in your post. If it wasn’t true, why did you say it?

F what wasn’t true? confused

Phil_C is on the money, if you can’t work it out, I suggest you read his post.

roughbarked said:

Woodie said:

ChrispenEvan said:

yeah, but that’s acceptable.

;-)

i doubt there is much difference between a straight nightclub and a gay one. though i have frequented the former a lot more than the latter.

I have seen far far far far … fills page far far far more punchups in straight nightclubs and bars than gay ones. A lot due to inappropriate advances by one bloke on another bloke’s girlfriend.

Are you saying that there aren’t punchups over another bloke’s boyfriend?

I’ve never seen one in 40 years of doing gay bars.

Bubblecar said:

Woodie said:

PermeateFree said:

Look, I am just replying you what you said in your post. If it wasn’t true, why did you say it?

F what wasn’t true? confused

Permeate is assuming you actually went up to the men you weren’t interested in and said “blerk” :)

No, just the checking of the meat on offer.

PermeateFree said:

Woodie said:

PermeateFree said:

Look, I am just replying you what you said in your post. If it wasn’t true, why did you say it?

F what wasn’t true? confused

Phil_C is on the money, if you can’t work it out, I suggest you read his post.

I think we all did. Glad you got it.

Woodie said:

PermeateFree said:

Woodie said:

I have seen far far far far … fills page far far far more punchups in straight nightclubs and bars than gay ones. A lot due to inappropriate advances by one bloke on another bloke’s girlfriend.

Might have more to do with higher testosterone levels.

Wah??? (If that was meant to be some attempt at humour…. hehehehehe)

Are you suggesting that is not the case?

PermeateFree said:

Bubblecar said:

Woodie said:

F what wasn’t true? confused

Permeate is assuming you actually went up to the men you weren’t interested in and said “blerk” :)

No, just the checking of the meat on offer.

What’s wrong with that? These are places for men to meet for recreational sex.

Woodie said:

roughbarked said:

Woodie said:

I have seen far far far far … fills page far far far more punchups in straight nightclubs and bars than gay ones. A lot due to inappropriate advances by one bloke on another bloke’s girlfriend.

Are you saying that there aren’t punchups over another bloke’s boyfriend?

I’ve never seen one in 40 years of doing gay bars.

As I pointed out to those who don’t comprehend. There is no central attraction of the cute chick to fight over her attentions.

Bubblecar said:

PermeateFree said:

Bubblecar said:

Permeate is assuming you actually went up to the men you weren’t interested in and said “blerk” :)

No, just the checking of the meat on offer.

What’s wrong with that? These are places for men to meet for recreational sex.

Pleased to meet you with meat to please you.

roughbarked said:

Are you saying that there aren’t punchups over another bloke’s boyfriend?

I“ll take you to the Mardi Gras Party to see for yourself. 20,000 party goers, as much grog double shots and you like, no lock outs, as much substances as possible that one can shove up ya nose, goes all night and into the next day and not one skerrick of agro, in the 20 odd Mardi Gras parties I’ve been to.

Bubblecar said:

PermeateFree said:

Bubblecar said:

Permeate is assuming you actually went up to the men you weren’t interested in and said “blerk” :)

No, just the checking of the meat on offer.

What’s wrong with that? These are places for men to meet for recreational sex.

Thing that is the problem straight people have, is you don’t see the problem and the distastefulness of it.

PermeateFree said:

Woodie said:

PermeateFree said:

You are the one describing what goes on there, not me.

As I said, Mr Free. Strict code of conduct and rules of etiquette. And no big burly ten ton bouncers around at all.

Just a meat market, not for sale but for the asking.

I’m OK with these venues being call a meat market. For the asking? Where “no” means “no” and it’s left at that.

PermeateFree said:

Bubblecar said:

PermeateFree said:

No, just the checking of the meat on offer.

What’s wrong with that? These are places for men to meet for recreational sex.

Thing that is the problem straight people have, is you don’t see the problem and the distastefulness of it.

I’m sure there are plenty of straight people who enjoy (or would like to enjoy) recreational sex.

Woodie said:

roughbarked said:

Are you saying that there aren’t punchups over another bloke’s boyfriend?

I“ll take you to the Mardi Gras Party to see for yourself. 20,000 party goers, as much grog double shots and you like, no lock outs, as much substances as possible that one can shove up ya nose, goes all night and into the next day and not one skerrick of agro, in the 20 odd Mardi Gras parties I’ve been to.

I don’t need to be convinced of anything. I’m merely asking questions in an attempt to bring all this to closure.

Bubblecar said:

PermeateFree said:

Bubblecar said:

What’s wrong with that? These are places for men to meet for recreational sex.

Thing that is the problem straight people have, is you don’t see the problem and the distastefulness of it.

I’m sure there are plenty of straight people who enjoy (or would like to enjoy) recreational sex.

Not the tacky way you seem to relish.

PermeateFree said:

Bubblecar said:

PermeateFree said:

No, just the checking of the meat on offer.

What’s wrong with that? These are places for men to meet for recreational sex.

Thing that is the problem straight people have, is you don’t see the problem and the distastefulness of it.

A heterosexual bar/sauna/whorehouse, is tasteful?

PermeateFree said:

Bubblecar said:

PermeateFree said:

Thing that is the problem straight people have, is you don’t see the problem and the distastefulness of it.

I’m sure there are plenty of straight people who enjoy (or would like to enjoy) recreational sex.

Not the tacky way you seem to relish.

Go to a singles club meet.

PermeateFree said:

Woodie said:

PermeateFree said:

Might have more to do with higher testosterone levels.

Wah??? (If that was meant to be some attempt at humour…. hehehehehe)

Are you suggesting that is not the case?

still confused Are you suggesting there are different levels of testosterone between gay and straight men?

Bubblecar said:

PermeateFree said:

Bubblecar said:

What’s wrong with that? These are places for men to meet for recreational sex.

Thing that is the problem straight people have, is you don’t see the problem and the distastefulness of it.

I’m sure there are plenty of straight people who enjoy (or would like to enjoy) recreational sex.

I reckon all sex is recreational.

Michael V said:

Bubblecar said:

PermeateFree said:

Thing that is the problem straight people have, is you don’t see the problem and the distastefulness of it.

I’m sure there are plenty of straight people who enjoy (or would like to enjoy) recreational sex.

I reckon all sex is recreational.

Those who plan it are probably misled.

PermeateFree said:

Not the tacky way you seem to relish.

I haven’t been to a gay sauna since my pleasantly misspent youth :)

But just because I’m now fat & middle-aged doesn’t mean I’m going to start harrumphing about those who do enjoy visiting saunas.

PermeateFree said:

Thing that is the problem straight people have, is you don’t see the problem and the distastefulness of it.

Are you singling out gay SOP venues in your statement? I assure you there are far far far fills page again far far far more brothels for heterosexuals where men go for recreational sex. Just that those premises involve money. If you (and “straight people”) find brothels just as distasteful, then I might accept your opinion.

roughbarked said:

Michael V said:

Bubblecar said:

I’m sure there are plenty of straight people who enjoy (or would like to enjoy) recreational sex.

I reckon all sex is recreational.

Those who plan it are probably misled.

Though I do remember my dad terlling me when he realised I was suffering from lovers balls. “the time to avoid having sex with females is when they want it the most”. His reasoning was that they were driven by their hormones and when they really want you it is because they have chosen you to be the father of their children. It was a kind of beware the risks son, thing.

Woodie said:

PermeateFree said:

Woodie said:

Wah??? (If that was meant to be some attempt at humour…. hehehehehe)

Are you suggesting that is not the case?

still confused Are you suggesting there are different levels of testosterone between gay and straight men?

Testosterone is used to make females more masculine and estrogen is used to make males more feminine. Go figure!

PermeateFree said:

Woodie said:

PermeateFree said:

Are you suggesting that is not the case?

still confused Are you suggesting there are different levels of testosterone between gay and straight men?

Testosterone is used to make females more masculine and estrogen is used to make males more feminine. Go figure!

C’mon. You told us you were a scientist.

Bubblecar said:

PermeateFree said:

Not the tacky way you seem to relish.

I haven’t been to a gay sauna since my pleasantly misspent youth :)

But just because I’m now fat & middle-aged doesn’t mean I’m going to start harrumphing about those who do enjoy visiting saunas.

I know, it is the accepted attitude of most gays of which many hetro people found distasteful.

Woodie said:

PermeateFree said:

Thing that is the problem straight people have, is you don’t see the problem and the distastefulness of it.

Are you singling out gay SOP venues in your statement? I assure you there are far far far fills page again far far far more brothels for heterosexuals where men go for recreational sex. Just that those premises involve money. If you (and “straight people”) find brothels just as distasteful, then I might accept your opinion.

Yes, a man paying a bored sex worker to pretend to find him attractive and sexually entertain him seems a lot more tacky than meeting like-minded people for mutually randy fun.

PermeateFree said:

Bubblecar said:

PermeateFree said:

Not the tacky way you seem to relish.

I haven’t been to a gay sauna since my pleasantly misspent youth :)

But just because I’m now fat & middle-aged doesn’t mean I’m going to start harrumphing about those who do enjoy visiting saunas.

I know, it is the accepted attitude of most gays of which many hetro people found distasteful.

Yes Mrs Whitehouse.

Woodie said:

PermeateFree said:

Thing that is the problem straight people have, is you don’t see the problem and the distastefulness of it.

Are you singling out gay SOP venues in your statement? I assure you there are far far far fills page again far far far more brothels for heterosexuals where men go for recreational sex. Just that those premises involve money. If you (and “straight people”) find brothels just as distasteful, then I might accept your opinion.

Sorry you are unable to see a major concern many hetro people have with gays, and because of that gay attitude is probably why they flaunt their sexuality in the same tacky way.

PermeateFree said:

Woodie said:

PermeateFree said:

Are you suggesting that is not the case?

still confused Are you suggesting there are different levels of testosterone between gay and straight men?

Testosterone is used to make females more masculine and estrogen is used to make males more feminine. Go figure!

Go figure what??? I still don’t understand. I’ll ask again. Do you consider that gay man and straight men have different levels of testosterone?

PermeateFree said:

Woodie said:

PermeateFree said:

Thing that is the problem straight people have, is you don’t see the problem and the distastefulness of it.

Are you singling out gay SOP venues in your statement? I assure you there are far far far fills page again far far far more brothels for heterosexuals where men go for recreational sex. Just that those premises involve money. If you (and “straight people”) find brothels just as distasteful, then I might accept your opinion.

Sorry you are unable to see a major concern many hetro people have with gays, and because of that gay attitude is probably why they flaunt their sexuality in the same tacky way.

Unattainable sexual proclivity can be harmful, you know?

Bubblecar said:

Woodie said:

PermeateFree said:

Thing that is the problem straight people have, is you don’t see the problem and the distastefulness of it.

Are you singling out gay SOP venues in your statement? I assure you there are far far far fills page again far far far more brothels for heterosexuals where men go for recreational sex. Just that those premises involve money. If you (and “straight people”) find brothels just as distasteful, then I might accept your opinion.

Yes, a man paying a bored sex worker to pretend to find him attractive and sexually entertain him seems a lot more tacky than meeting like-minded people for mutually randy fun.

Dare say you would. But most heterosexuals do not go with prostitutes, but most gays are happy to support the meat market.

PermeateFree said:

Dare say you would. But most heterosexuals do not go with prostitutes, but most gays are happy to support the meat market.

Ref?

Bubblecar said:

PermeateFree said:

Bubblecar said:

I haven’t been to a gay sauna since my pleasantly misspent youth :)

But just because I’m now fat & middle-aged doesn’t mean I’m going to start harrumphing about those who do enjoy visiting saunas.

I know, it is the accepted attitude of most gays of which many hetro people found distasteful.

Yes Mrs Whitehouse.

See you are totally closed minded about why many heterosexuals feel about gays, yet you expect us to understand you from your perspective. Why should we?

Woodie said:

PermeateFree said:

Woodie said:

still confused Are you suggesting there are different levels of testosterone between gay and straight men?

Testosterone is used to make females more masculine and estrogen is used to make males more feminine. Go figure!

Go figure what??? I still don’t understand. I’ll ask again. Do you consider that gay man and straight men have different levels of testosterone?

Go a do some reading Woodie.

PermeateFree said:

Bubblecar said:

Woodie said:

Are you singling out gay SOP venues in your statement? I assure you there are far far far fills page again far far far more brothels for heterosexuals where men go for recreational sex. Just that those premises involve money. If you (and “straight people”) find brothels just as distasteful, then I might accept your opinion.

Yes, a man paying a bored sex worker to pretend to find him attractive and sexually entertain him seems a lot more tacky than meeting like-minded people for mutually randy fun.

Dare say you would. But most heterosexuals do not go with prostitutes, but most gays are happy to support the meat market.

Plenty of gays never visit saunas. I daresay some even find them “distasteful”, but you seldom find them claiming to speak on behalf of the majority, as you’re doing on behalf of “most hetros” as you put it.

dv said:

PermeateFree said:

Dare say you would. But most heterosexuals do not go with prostitutes, but most gays are happy to support the meat market.

Ref?

I’m sure you could dig up some stats to support whatever view you wanted dv.

PermeateFree said:

Woodie said:

PermeateFree said:

Testosterone is used to make females more masculine and estrogen is used to make males more feminine. Go figure!

Go figure what??? I still don’t understand. I’ll ask again. Do you consider that gay man and straight men have different levels of testosterone?

Go a do some reading Woodie.

Plenty of playboys out there.

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

PermeateFree said:

Dare say you would. But most heterosexuals do not go with prostitutes, but most gays are happy to support the meat market.

Ref?

I’m sure you could dig up some stats to support whatever view you wanted dv.

But he asked you to.

Bubblecar said:

PermeateFree said:

Bubblecar said:

Yes, a man paying a bored sex worker to pretend to find him attractive and sexually entertain him seems a lot more tacky than meeting like-minded people for mutually randy fun.

Dare say you would. But most heterosexuals do not go with prostitutes, but most gays are happy to support the meat market.

Plenty of gays never visit saunas. I daresay some even find them “distasteful”, but you seldom find them claiming to speak on behalf of the majority, as you’re doing on behalf of “most hetros” as you put it.

Well being a hetero myself, I would probably have a much better idea than yourself, as you would have with the gays than me, so lets not play these silly games.

PermeateFree said:

Bubblecar said:

PermeateFree said:

Dare say you would. But most heterosexuals do not go with prostitutes, but most gays are happy to support the meat market.

Plenty of gays never visit saunas. I daresay some even find them “distasteful”, but you seldom find them claiming to speak on behalf of the majority, as you’re doing on behalf of “most hetros” as you put it.

Well being a hetero myself, I would probably have a much better idea than yourself, as you would have with the gays than me, so lets not play these silly games.

There exists no monopoly on sexuality.

roughbarked said:

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

Ref?

I’m sure you could dig up some stats to support whatever view you wanted dv.

But he asked you to.

Rb, you add absolutely NOTHING to the conversation, except being a bloody nuisance.

PermeateFree said:

Bubblecar said:

PermeateFree said:

Dare say you would. But most heterosexuals do not go with prostitutes, but most gays are happy to support the meat market.

Plenty of gays never visit saunas. I daresay some even find them “distasteful”, but you seldom find them claiming to speak on behalf of the majority, as you’re doing on behalf of “most hetros” as you put it.

Well being a hetero myself, I would probably have a much better idea than yourself, as you would have with the gays than me, so lets not play these silly games.

So you think pointing a disdainful finger at “the gayz” and saying “I find you distasteful, and so do all my straight buddies” is a sensible game?

roughbarked said:

PermeateFree said:

Bubblecar said:

Plenty of gays never visit saunas. I daresay some even find them “distasteful”, but you seldom find them claiming to speak on behalf of the majority, as you’re doing on behalf of “most hetros” as you put it.

Well being a hetero myself, I would probably have a much better idea than yourself, as you would have with the gays than me, so lets not play these silly games.

There exists no monopoly on sexuality.

There could be the “fucked if I know what you could call it but it really turns me on” sexuality.

PermeateFree said:

Dare say you would. But most heterosexuals do not go with prostitutes, but most gays are happy to support the meat market.

Evidence please.Methinks you are suffering from stereotypicalism, hearsay and blown out of proportion sensationalism. Did the last gay couple you had in your home “flaunt their sexuality” at you? Perhaps, by, just maybe holding hands? Or did they fuck full on on the couch in front of you?

Gay SOP venues are not on every street corner. Dare I say you’d be able to find, or know where your local or close by brothel is. They’re pretty close to sign posted.

Gay SOP venues do not even have a sign out the front. Usually a dimly lit door down an alley, completely out of view, and nobody, even locals would know they are there.

Some facts. There are probably three gay SOP venues in Melbourne, 3 – 4 in Sydney and two in Brisbane, and for Parpyone, NONE in Tasmania. . Now…. how many brothels are there is these major metropolises or regional areas of ours?

Bubblecar said:

PermeateFree said:

Bubblecar said:

Plenty of gays never visit saunas. I daresay some even find them “distasteful”, but you seldom find them claiming to speak on behalf of the majority, as you’re doing on behalf of “most hetros” as you put it.

Well being a hetero myself, I would probably have a much better idea than yourself, as you would have with the gays than me, so lets not play these silly games.

So you think pointing a disdainful finger at “the gayz” and saying “I find you distasteful, and so do all my straight buddies” is a sensible game?

Drama Queen Alert!!! Is this the best you can do in defending your case?

PermeateFree said:

roughbarked said:

PermeateFree said:

I’m sure you could dig up some stats to support whatever view you wanted dv.

But he asked you to.

Rb, you add absolutely NOTHING to the conversation, except being a bloody nuisance.

Nothing being no support for your argument? guilty as charged.

Your argument has nothing also to do with any science you could allude to practicing.

PermeateFree said:

Bubblecar said:

PermeateFree said:

I know, it is the accepted attitude of most gays of which many hetro people found distasteful.

Yes Mrs Whitehouse.

See you are totally closed minded about why many heterosexuals feel about gays, yet you expect us to understand you from your perspective. Why should we?

Because your perceptions are wrong, Mr Free.

PermeateFree said:

Woodie said:

PermeateFree said:

Testosterone is used to make females more masculine and estrogen is used to make males more feminine. Go figure!

Go figure what??? I still don’t understand. I’ll ask again. Do you consider that gay man and straight men have different levels of testosterone?

Go a do some reading Woodie.

I asked a very specific question of YOU, Mr Free.

Woodie said:

PermeateFree said:

Bubblecar said:

Yes Mrs Whitehouse.

See you are totally closed minded about why many heterosexuals feel about gays, yet you expect us to understand you from your perspective. Why should we?

Because your perceptions are wrong, Mr Free.

and seeing that there seems to be a majority in favour of ssm i don’t see that the majority feel the way you say.

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

PermeateFree said:

Dare say you would. But most heterosexuals do not go with prostitutes, but most gays are happy to support the meat market.

Ref?

I’m sure you could dig up some stats to support whatever view you wanted dv.

It’s you that’s making the claim, Mr Free.

Woodie said:

PermeateFree said:

Dare say you would. But most heterosexuals do not go with prostitutes, but most gays are happy to support the meat market.

Evidence please.Methinks you are suffering from stereotypicalism, hearsay and blown out of proportion sensationalism. Did the last gay couple you had in your home “flaunt their sexuality” at you? Perhaps, by, just maybe holding hands? Or did they fuck full on on the couch in front of you?

Gay SOP venues are not on every street corner. Dare I say you’d be able to find, or know where your local or close by brothel is. They’re pretty close to sign posted.

Gay SOP venues do not even have a sign out the front. Usually a dimly lit door down an alley, completely out of view, and nobody, even locals would know they are there.

Some facts. There are probably three gay SOP venues in Melbourne, 3 – 4 in Sydney and two in Brisbane, and for Parpyone, NONE in Tasmania. . Now…. how many brothels are there is these major metropolises or regional areas of ours?

Yes dear, just ignore everything that has said, Stick your fingers in your ears and go lalala. That is another reason you lack popularity.

roughbarked said:

PermeateFree said:

roughbarked said:

But he asked you to.

Rb, you add absolutely NOTHING to the conversation, except being a bloody nuisance.

Nothing being no support for your argument? guilty as charged.

Your argument has nothing also to do with any science you could allude to practicing.

Piss off fool!

PermeateFree said:

Bubblecar said:

PermeateFree said:

Well being a hetero myself, I would probably have a much better idea than yourself, as you would have with the gays than me, so lets not play these silly games.

So you think pointing a disdainful finger at “the gayz” and saying “I find you distasteful, and so do all my straight buddies” is a sensible game?

Drama Queen Alert!!! Is this the best you can do in defending your case?

Huh, what case? You’re being pointlessly rude and obnoxious, but seem to think you’re presenting some sort of argument I need to rebut.

I can but say: “PF’s disdain acknowledged and discarded” :)

PermeateFree said:

Well being a hetero myself, I would probably have a much better idea than yourself, as you would have with the gays than me, so lets not play these silly games.

I know just as many heterosexuals as you do, Mr Free, but I dare say I know a helluva lot more gay men (and lesbians) than you do.

So it seems that as well as being a bit of a nutter PF is also a little bit of a prude.

Woodie said:

PermeateFree said:

Bubblecar said:

Yes Mrs Whitehouse.

See you are totally closed minded about why many heterosexuals feel about gays, yet you expect us to understand you from your perspective. Why should we?

Because your perceptions are wrong, Mr Free.

It does not really matter if they are right or wrong, they are the perceptions people believe and they believe them to be right. So you don’t think many heterosexuals find the way you conduct yourselves as distasteful, well that is your perception too, which also maybe right or wrong.

PermeateFree said:

Yes dear, just ignore everything that has said, Stick your fingers in your ears and go lalala. That is another reason you lack popularity.

When PF starts telling popular posters they “lack popularity”, it’s time to leave him to his mutterings :)

PermeateFree said:

roughbarked said:

PermeateFree said:

Rb, you add absolutely NOTHING to the conversation, except being a bloody nuisance.

Nothing being no support for your argument? guilty as charged.

Your argument has nothing also to do with any science you could allude to practicing.

Piss off fool!

As I keep trying to tell you, I am one ot your greatest supporters. Pissing me off will lose my assistance on other issues like mallee fowl mounds.

Bubblecar said:

PermeateFree said:

Yes dear, just ignore everything that has said, Stick your fingers in your ears and go lalala. That is another reason you lack popularity.

When PF starts telling popular posters they “lack popularity”, it’s time to leave him to his mutterings :)

it’s that jealousy coming through again, bubblecar.

PermeateFree said:

Woodie said:

PermeateFree said:

Dare say you would. But most heterosexuals do not go with prostitutes, but most gays are happy to support the meat market.

Evidence please.Methinks you are suffering from stereotypicalism, hearsay and blown out of proportion sensationalism. Did the last gay couple you had in your home “flaunt their sexuality” at you? Perhaps, by, just maybe holding hands? Or did they fuck full on on the couch in front of you?

Gay SOP venues are not on every street corner. Dare I say you’d be able to find, or know where your local or close by brothel is. They’re pretty close to sign posted.

Gay SOP venues do not even have a sign out the front. Usually a dimly lit door down an alley, completely out of view, and nobody, even locals would know they are there.

Some facts. There are probably three gay SOP venues in Melbourne, 3 – 4 in Sydney and two in Brisbane, and for Parpyone, NONE in Tasmania. . Now…. how many brothels are there is these major metropolises or regional areas of ours?

Yes dear, just ignore everything that has said, Stick your fingers in your ears and go lalala. That is another reason you lack popularity.

Then you need to help our community by correcting these misconceptions amongst your peers, and put a few things into perspective.

Woodie said:

PermeateFree said:

Woodie said:

Go figure what??? I still don’t understand. I’ll ask again. Do you consider that gay man and straight men have different levels of testosterone?

Go a do some reading Woodie.

I asked a very specific question of YOU, Mr Free.

And I repeat, there is a great deal on the subject if you google it and I haven’t the time to do so.

ChrispenEvan said:

Woodie said:

PermeateFree said:

See you are totally closed minded about why many heterosexuals feel about gays, yet you expect us to understand you from your perspective. Why should we?

Because your perceptions are wrong, Mr Free.

and seeing that there seems to be a majority in favour of ssm i don’t see that the majority feel the way you say.

I think if you bother to read back on my posts you will find I said many, not all, or even the majority.

PermeateFree said:

It does not really matter if they are right or wrong, they are the perceptions people believe and they believe them to be right. So you don’t think many heterosexuals find the way you conduct yourselves as distasteful, well that is your perception too, which also maybe right or wrong.

Well, when it comes to “conducting myself”, I don’t tell people to “piss off” for a start.

Woodie said:

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

Ref?

I’m sure you could dig up some stats to support whatever view you wanted dv.

It’s you that’s making the claim, Mr Free.

Woodie, if you don’t believe me, then don’t, but I do not have the time to find something you can easily find yourself.