Date: 19/10/2017 20:00:03
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1134654
Subject: 75 percent decline in insects Germany.

This is bad news.

More than 75 percent decline over 27 years in total flying insect biomass in protected areas

More than 75 percent decline over 27 years in total flying insect biomass in protected areas
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0185809

Global declines in insects have sparked wide interest among scientists, politicians, and the general public. Loss of insect diversity and abundance is expected to provoke cascading effects on food webs and to jeopardize ecosystem services. Our understanding of the extent and underlying causes of this decline is based on the abundance of single species or taxonomic groups only, rather than changes in insect biomass which is more relevant for ecological functioning.

more…

Reply Quote

Date: 19/10/2017 20:02:05
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1134656
Subject: re: 75 percent decline in insects Germany.

Are we doing anything like this in Australia measuring insect populations every year?

Reply Quote

Date: 19/10/2017 20:11:50
From: Michael V
ID: 1134664
Subject: re: 75 percent decline in insects Germany.

That was an interesting paper. Thanks for posting it.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/10/2017 20:21:41
From: dv
ID: 1134672
Subject: re: 75 percent decline in insects Germany.

shit eh

Reply Quote

Date: 19/10/2017 20:23:57
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1134673
Subject: re: 75 percent decline in insects Germany.

Tau.Neutrino said:


This is bad news.

More than 75 percent decline over 27 years in total flying insect biomass in protected areas

More than 75 percent decline over 27 years in total flying insect biomass in protected areas
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0185809

Global declines in insects have sparked wide interest among scientists, politicians, and the general public. Loss of insect diversity and abundance is expected to provoke cascading effects on food webs and to jeopardize ecosystem services. Our understanding of the extent and underlying causes of this decline is based on the abundance of single species or taxonomic groups only, rather than changes in insect biomass which is more relevant for ecological functioning.

more…

It reads like inappropriate land management, as all habitats experienced a significant reduction of plant species, which is not attributable to any large extent, to other causes. In Australia we have the same situation where habitat management has changed since European settlement that reduced numbers of most flora and fauna, even in uncleared areas. It wasn’t so long ago in Australia, that when a rare plant species was discovered it would be fenced off so nothing could damage them. However this just enable weeds (many native) to grow unimpeded and smother the rare species.

They need to look at how these reserves were managed prior to 27 year reserve establishment and learn what has changed since. Inactivity I imagine would be the main reason and the unrestricted growth of the taller and more bushy plant species, which reduces habitat, reduces sunlight and dominates available moisture.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/10/2017 20:36:43
From: dv
ID: 1134675
Subject: re: 75 percent decline in insects Germany.

PermeateFree said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

This is bad news.

More than 75 percent decline over 27 years in total flying insect biomass in protected areas

More than 75 percent decline over 27 years in total flying insect biomass in protected areas
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0185809

Global declines in insects have sparked wide interest among scientists, politicians, and the general public. Loss of insect diversity and abundance is expected to provoke cascading effects on food webs and to jeopardize ecosystem services. Our understanding of the extent and underlying causes of this decline is based on the abundance of single species or taxonomic groups only, rather than changes in insect biomass which is more relevant for ecological functioning.

more…

It reads like inappropriate land management, as all habitats experienced a significant reduction of plant species, which is not attributable to any large extent, to other causes. In Australia we have the same situation where habitat management has changed since European settlement that reduced numbers of most flora and fauna, even in uncleared areas. It wasn’t so long ago in Australia, that when a rare plant species was discovered it would be fenced off so nothing could damage them. However this just enable weeds (many native) to grow unimpeded and smother the rare species.

They need to look at how these reserves were managed prior to 27 year reserve establishment and learn what has changed since. Inactivity I imagine would be the main reason and the unrestricted growth of the taller and more bushy plant species, which reduces habitat, reduces sunlight and dominates available moisture.

Good points.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/10/2017 20:39:19
From: roughbarked
ID: 1134677
Subject: re: 75 percent decline in insects Germany.

dv said:


PermeateFree said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

This is bad news.

More than 75 percent decline over 27 years in total flying insect biomass in protected areas

More than 75 percent decline over 27 years in total flying insect biomass in protected areas
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0185809

Global declines in insects have sparked wide interest among scientists, politicians, and the general public. Loss of insect diversity and abundance is expected to provoke cascading effects on food webs and to jeopardize ecosystem services. Our understanding of the extent and underlying causes of this decline is based on the abundance of single species or taxonomic groups only, rather than changes in insect biomass which is more relevant for ecological functioning.

more…

It reads like inappropriate land management, as all habitats experienced a significant reduction of plant species, which is not attributable to any large extent, to other causes. In Australia we have the same situation where habitat management has changed since European settlement that reduced numbers of most flora and fauna, even in uncleared areas. It wasn’t so long ago in Australia, that when a rare plant species was discovered it would be fenced off so nothing could damage them. However this just enable weeds (many native) to grow unimpeded and smother the rare species.

They need to look at how these reserves were managed prior to 27 year reserve establishment and learn what has changed since. Inactivity I imagine would be the main reason and the unrestricted growth of the taller and more bushy plant species, which reduces habitat, reduces sunlight and dominates available moisture.

Good points.

Thing is, much of nature depends upon the insects. Without them we are in serious shit.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/10/2017 20:42:52
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1134679
Subject: re: 75 percent decline in insects Germany.

roughbarked said:


dv said:

PermeateFree said:

It reads like inappropriate land management, as all habitats experienced a significant reduction of plant species, which is not attributable to any large extent, to other causes. In Australia we have the same situation where habitat management has changed since European settlement that reduced numbers of most flora and fauna, even in uncleared areas. It wasn’t so long ago in Australia, that when a rare plant species was discovered it would be fenced off so nothing could damage them. However this just enable weeds (many native) to grow unimpeded and smother the rare species.

They need to look at how these reserves were managed prior to 27 year reserve establishment and learn what has changed since. Inactivity I imagine would be the main reason and the unrestricted growth of the taller and more bushy plant species, which reduces habitat, reduces sunlight and dominates available moisture.

Good points.

Thing is, much of nature depends upon the insects. Without them we are in serious shit.

But most insects rely upon vegetation and if the plant species diversity and number is reduced, then so will the insect diversity and number.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/10/2017 20:46:17
From: Ian
ID: 1134682
Subject: re: 75 percent decline in insects Germany.

dv said:


shit eh

Shit

Reply Quote

Date: 19/10/2017 20:49:57
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1134683
Subject: re: 75 percent decline in insects Germany.

roughbarked said:


dv said:

PermeateFree said:

It reads like inappropriate land management, as all habitats experienced a significant reduction of plant species, which is not attributable to any large extent, to other causes. In Australia we have the same situation where habitat management has changed since European settlement that reduced numbers of most flora and fauna, even in uncleared areas. It wasn’t so long ago in Australia, that when a rare plant species was discovered it would be fenced off so nothing could damage them. However this just enable weeds (many native) to grow unimpeded and smother the rare species.

They need to look at how these reserves were managed prior to 27 year reserve establishment and learn what has changed since. Inactivity I imagine would be the main reason and the unrestricted growth of the taller and more bushy plant species, which reduces habitat, reduces sunlight and dominates available moisture.

Good points.

Thing is, much of nature depends upon the insects. Without them we are in serious shit.

75 percent insect reduction over 25 years must have effected frogs, birds, small reptiles, snakes, mammals and animals to a degree

Reply Quote

Date: 19/10/2017 20:51:59
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1134684
Subject: re: 75 percent decline in insects Germany.

Ian said:


dv said:

shit eh

Shit

In many parts of Europe there would have been a considerable variety of grazing animals that would have eaten and kept the environment open. They also would have provided animal fertiliser, so the posts above may not be inappropriate.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/10/2017 20:53:55
From: roughbarked
ID: 1134685
Subject: re: 75 percent decline in insects Germany.

PermeateFree said:


roughbarked said:

dv said:

Good points.

Thing is, much of nature depends upon the insects. Without them we are in serious shit.

But most insects rely upon vegetation and if the plant species diversity and number is reduced, then so will the insect diversity and number.

Yeah well we have been decimnating the diversity of plant life for centuries now.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/10/2017 20:54:43
From: roughbarked
ID: 1134686
Subject: re: 75 percent decline in insects Germany.

Tau.Neutrino said:


roughbarked said:

dv said:

Good points.

Thing is, much of nature depends upon the insects. Without them we are in serious shit.

75 percent insect reduction over 25 years must have effected frogs, birds, small reptiles, snakes, mammals and animals to a degree

To such a noticeable degree that is very alarming, yes.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/10/2017 20:55:03
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1134687
Subject: re: 75 percent decline in insects Germany.

Tau.Neutrino said:


roughbarked said:

dv said:

Good points.

Thing is, much of nature depends upon the insects. Without them we are in serious shit.

75 percent insect reduction over 25 years must have effected frogs, birds, small reptiles, snakes, mammals and animals to a degree

Certainly the ones reliant upon the insects and the missing vegetation, especially herbaceous vegetation that would account for most grazing animals. It would be a slow spiraling decline.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/10/2017 20:55:43
From: Ian
ID: 1134688
Subject: re: 75 percent decline in insects Germany.

Maybe we need to get rid of more of those ravenous birds.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/10/2017 20:56:26
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1134689
Subject: re: 75 percent decline in insects Germany.

roughbarked said:


PermeateFree said:

roughbarked said:

Thing is, much of nature depends upon the insects. Without them we are in serious shit.

But most insects rely upon vegetation and if the plant species diversity and number is reduced, then so will the insect diversity and number.

Yeah well we have been decimnating the diversity of plant life for centuries now.

Which has impacted upon all interactive fauna.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/10/2017 20:57:49
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1134690
Subject: re: 75 percent decline in insects Germany.

Are they collecting genetic samples of all these insects?

Should this be done on a global scale?

Collecting annual numbers for insect bird flora and fauna stats globally.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/10/2017 21:00:21
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1134691
Subject: re: 75 percent decline in insects Germany.

roughbarked said:


PermeateFree said:

roughbarked said:

Thing is, much of nature depends upon the insects. Without them we are in serious shit.

But most insects rely upon vegetation and if the plant species diversity and number is reduced, then so will the insect diversity and number.

Yeah well we have been decimnating the diversity of plant life for centuries now.

Is there correlation between diversity of plants and diversity of insects, or a ratio figure?

Reply Quote

Date: 19/10/2017 21:02:35
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1134692
Subject: re: 75 percent decline in insects Germany.

Tau.Neutrino said:


Are they collecting genetic samples of all these insects?

Should this be done on a global scale?

Collecting annual numbers for insect bird flora and fauna stats globally.

It has been an ongoing situation since earliest scientific investigation, but no doubt much has been lost with massive land clearing, plus with invertebrates and other small animals, there are gaping holes in our knowledge.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/10/2017 21:06:05
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1134693
Subject: re: 75 percent decline in insects Germany.

Tau.Neutrino said:


roughbarked said:

PermeateFree said:

But most insects rely upon vegetation and if the plant species diversity and number is reduced, then so will the insect diversity and number.

Yeah well we have been decimnating the diversity of plant life for centuries now.

Is there correlation between diversity of plants and diversity of insects, or a ratio figure?

Yes, there are many symbiotic relationships where if one disappears, so will the other. Even with less specialised insects, they too will disappear with land clearing along with the vegetation they require.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/10/2017 21:10:11
From: dv
ID: 1134694
Subject: re: 75 percent decline in insects Germany.

Note that this is a 75% decline in biomass, not species.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/10/2017 21:26:28
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1134702
Subject: re: 75 percent decline in insects Germany.

dv said:


Note that this is a 75% decline in biomass, not species.

It was a decline in vegetation species, which in turn will change the number and composition of the animals that relied upon them. In this type of situation it is the small herbaceous plants that are usually most affected and these species tend to be more numerous and with more insects and other animals dependent upon them

Reply Quote

Date: 19/10/2017 21:34:24
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1134710
Subject: re: 75 percent decline in insects Germany.

dv said:


Note that this is a 75% decline in biomass, not species.

Does that means overall numbers?

Reply Quote

Date: 19/10/2017 21:38:53
From: Ian
ID: 1134711
Subject: re: 75 percent decline in insects Germany.

Tau.Neutrino said:


dv said:

Note that this is a 75% decline in biomass, not species.

Does that means overall numbers?

Not necessarily.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/10/2017 21:50:43
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1134718
Subject: re: 75 percent decline in insects Germany.

Tau.Neutrino said:


dv said:

Note that this is a 75% decline in biomass, not species.

Does that means overall numbers?

Not necessarily, but in an open grazing type environment, small plant species tend to be not only more numerous, but have the greater number of species in the environment. Unless the area has been logged or otherwise cleared the plant biomass will be substantially made up of these small plants. If the environment is allowed to overgrow and smother these smaller plants, they will disappear as will the majority of animal species (and numbers).

Reply Quote

Date: 19/10/2017 21:54:09
From: dv
ID: 1134719
Subject: re: 75 percent decline in insects Germany.

Tau.Neutrino said:


dv said:

Note that this is a 75% decline in biomass, not species.

Does that means overall numbers?

No, total mass.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/10/2017 11:20:57
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1134932
Subject: re: 75 percent decline in insects Germany.

Tau.Neutrino said:


This is bad news.

More than 75 percent decline over 27 years in total flying insect biomass in protected areas

More than 75 percent decline over 27 years in total flying insect biomass in protected areas
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0185809

Global declines in insects have sparked wide interest among scientists, politicians, and the general public. Loss of insect diversity and abundance is expected to provoke cascading effects on food webs and to jeopardize ecosystem services. Our understanding of the extent and underlying causes of this decline is based on the abundance of single species or taxonomic groups only, rather than changes in insect biomass which is more relevant for ecological functioning.

more…

I can talk a little about my own experiences with insect biomass in parts of Australia (and elsewhere).

Reply Quote

Date: 20/10/2017 11:24:32
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1134934
Subject: re: 75 percent decline in insects Germany.

A lot of birds feed on insects, if you get a 75% reduction in insect population you would think that should show up in bird census.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/10/2017 11:37:59
From: AwesomeO
ID: 1134943
Subject: re: 75 percent decline in insects Germany.

Is there some sort of standard for the nets and the configurations and the times? It was over along time and I don’t think a single net would have lasted that long and maybe something like budget cuts meant that they didn’t check them at night or something, I dunno.

Maybe birds learnt how to eat the insects out of the nets?

It is probably true but I think you should be alive to other possibilities as well.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/10/2017 11:41:20
From: Cymek
ID: 1134947
Subject: re: 75 percent decline in insects Germany.

Has anyone started mass insects breeding programs to replenish their numbers ?
It would quite quick compared to breeding other animals

Reply Quote

Date: 20/10/2017 12:05:05
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1134979
Subject: re: 75 percent decline in insects Germany.

AwesomeO said:


Is there some sort of standard for the nets and the configurations and the times? It was over along time and I don’t think a single net would have lasted that long and maybe something like budget cuts meant that they didn’t check them at night or something, I dunno.

Maybe birds learnt how to eat the insects out of the nets?

It is probably true but I think you should be alive to other possibilities as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaise_trap

Reply Quote

Date: 20/10/2017 20:09:10
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1135323
Subject: re: 75 percent decline in insects Germany.

ChrispenEvan said:


AwesomeO said:

Is there some sort of standard for the nets and the configurations and the times? It was over along time and I don’t think a single net would have lasted that long and maybe something like budget cuts meant that they didn’t check them at night or something, I dunno.

Maybe birds learnt how to eat the insects out of the nets?

It is probably true but I think you should be alive to other possibilities as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaise_trap

“The malaise trap can also function as a light trap. If a lamp is placed at the end opposite of the opening, the light will attract insects into the trap.”

That could be the problem. Insects have learnt to avoid flying towards artificial lights. Because most are street lamps. And those insects that are attracted by artificial light are going to avoid the Malaise trap anyway because street lights are brighter.

Reply Quote