Date: 28/10/2017 13:47:52
From: dv
ID: 1139343
Subject: Interstellar rock

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/astronomers-spot-first-ever-space-rock-from-another-star/

Astronomers Spot First-Ever Space Rock from Another Star
As it departs the inner solar system, scientists are racing to study the object before it fades from view

For the first time ever, an asteroid or comet from another star has been caught hurtling through our solar system, astronomers announced late Thursday. Provisionally designated A/2017 U1, the object appears to be less than a half-kilometer in diameter and is traveling at just over 40 kilometers per second—faster than humanity’s speediest outbound space probes. Because this is the first object of its type to be found, there are as yet no official rules for naming it, and its discoverers have balked at suggesting anything besides “Interstellar.” Whatever one might call it, though, it is presently racing away from the sun and has sparked a stampede of astronomers rushing to observe it before it fades entirely from view in the darkness of interstellar space.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 14:04:35
From: Michael V
ID: 1139350
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

Very interesting. Thanks.:)

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 14:57:52
From: dv
ID: 1139362
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

Michael V said:


Very interesting. Thanks.:)

I can’t take all the credit

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 15:12:19
From: Arts
ID: 1139364
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

I remember when rock was young.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 15:17:07
From: dv
ID: 1139366
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

Arts said:


I remember when rock was young.

Issa Michuzi had so much fun

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 15:20:18
From: Michael V
ID: 1139368
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

dv said:


Michael V said:

Very interesting. Thanks.:)

I can’t take all the credit

Thanks for posting and thereby bringing this interesting article to my attention.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 15:22:59
From: roughbarked
ID: 1139369
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

Michael V said:


dv said:

Michael V said:

Very interesting. Thanks.:)

I can’t take all the credit

Thanks for posting and thereby bringing this interesting article to my attention.

+1

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 15:26:54
From: sibeen
ID: 1139370
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

It was in todays’ Guardian. DV didn’t assist me in any way, shape or form I’m sad to say.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 15:38:58
From: dv
ID: 1139374
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

Michael V said:


dv said:

Michael V said:

Very interesting. Thanks.:)

I can’t take all the credit

Thanks for posting and thereby bringing this interesting article to my attention.

I live but to serve

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 15:39:29
From: dv
ID: 1139375
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

sibeen said:


It was in todays’ Guardian. DV didn’t assist me in any way, shape or form I’m sad to say.

Well that’s a relief

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 15:40:49
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1139377
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

dv said:


Michael V said:

dv said:

I can’t take all the credit

Thanks for posting and thereby bringing this interesting article to my attention.

I live but to serve

do you cook and clean too?

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 15:41:56
From: dv
ID: 1139378
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

ChrispenEvan said:


dv said:

Michael V said:

Thanks for posting and thereby bringing this interesting article to my attention.

I live but to serve

do you cook and clean too?

Yes

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 17:59:04
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1139462
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

> For the first time ever, an asteroid or comet from another star has been caught hurtling through our solar system, astronomers announced late Thursday. Provisionally designated A/2017 U1, the object appears to be less than a half-kilometer in diameter.

Yippee.

Do you have any idea how long I’ve been waiting for this?
Initially waiting impatiently – lately waiting grimly.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 18:03:54
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1139465
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

mollwollfumble said:


> For the first time ever, an asteroid or comet from another star has been caught hurtling through our solar system, astronomers announced late Thursday. Provisionally designated A/2017 U1, the object appears to be less than a half-kilometer in diameter.

Yippee.

Do you have any idea how long I’ve been waiting for this?
Initially waiting impatiently – lately waiting grimly.

Two questions:

1) How do they know this rock is from another solar system?

2) What is so exciting about it?

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 18:09:38
From: sibeen
ID: 1139466
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

The Rev Dodgson said:


mollwollfumble said:

> For the first time ever, an asteroid or comet from another star has been caught hurtling through our solar system, astronomers announced late Thursday. Provisionally designated A/2017 U1, the object appears to be less than a half-kilometer in diameter.

Yippee.

Do you have any idea how long I’ve been waiting for this?
Initially waiting impatiently – lately waiting grimly.

Two questions:

1) How do they know this rock is from another solar system?

2) What is so exciting about it?

1. The orbit has been calculated to be hyperbolic, so it comes from out of the solar system.

2. The vibe.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 18:25:38
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1139468
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

The Rev Dodgson said:


mollwollfumble said:

> For the first time ever, an asteroid or comet from another star has been caught hurtling through our solar system, astronomers announced late Thursday. Provisionally designated A/2017 U1, the object appears to be less than a half-kilometer in diameter.

Yippee.

Do you have any idea how long I’ve been waiting for this?
Initially waiting impatiently – lately waiting grimly.

Two questions:

1) How do they know this rock is from another solar system?

2) What is so exciting about it?

They know the rock is from another solar system because of its velocity, or to be more precise, the eccentricity of its orbit.

The comets we all know and love are either in elliptical orbits or are in orbits extremely close to parabolic. Have a look at the eccentricity column in this table https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_hyperbolic_comets. Objects that come in from the outer solar system can, because of of the the pressure of sunlight and the solar wind, have orbits that are very slightly beyond parabolic. From 1.0 to about 1.003. But the relative motion of local stars would result in a hyperbolic orbit of any incoming interstellar object with an eccentricity way higher than 1.003.

2017 U1’s hyperbolic orbital eccentricity is 1.192 which is way too large to have an origin within the Oort cloud. It has to come from another solar system.

It’s doubly exciting because the composition won’t be the composition of the solar system. For example, the oxygen isotope ratios of asteroids and comets within the solar system are very well known and that gives us certain hypotheses about the formation of the solar system. Even a single data point from an object that originated outside the solar system could have a big effect on our theories about how the solar system formed.

And also exciting because hitching a ride on it would take us out of the solar system into interstellar space very much faster than hitching a ride on a comet with a near-parabolic eccentricity. Those with a near-parabolic eccentricity crawl to almost a stop before they get anywhere near the outer edge of the solar system.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 18:45:07
From: dv
ID: 1139472
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

mollwollfumble said:


> For the first time ever, an asteroid or comet from another star has been caught hurtling through our solar system, astronomers announced late Thursday. Provisionally designated A/2017 U1, the object appears to be less than a half-kilometer in diameter.

Yippee.

Do you have any idea how long I’ve been waiting for this?
Initially waiting impatiently – lately waiting grimly.

54 years

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 18:46:18
From: dv
ID: 1139473
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

The Rev Dodgson said:

1) How do they know this rock is from another solar system?

It is coming in from way the fuck out of the plane of the galaxy at ridic high speed.

2) What is so exciting about it?

It’s not, it’s all very boring.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 18:49:02
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1139475
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

dv said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

1) How do they know this rock is from another solar system?

It is coming in from way the fuck out of the plane of the galaxy at ridic high speed.

2) What is so exciting about it?

It’s not, it’s all very boring.

40km sec

wonder where its going to?

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 18:50:28
From: dv
ID: 1139476
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

Tau.Neutrino said:


dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

1) How do they know this rock is from another solar system?

It is coming in from way the fuck out of the plane of the galaxy at ridic high speed.

2) What is so exciting about it?

It’s not, it’s all very boring.

40km sec

wonder where its going to?

Back

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 18:52:07
From: roughbarked
ID: 1139478
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

Tau.Neutrino said:


dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

1) How do they know this rock is from another solar system?

It is coming in from way the fuck out of the plane of the galaxy at ridic high speed.

2) What is so exciting about it?

It’s not, it’s all very boring.

40km sec

wonder where its going to?

Somewhere.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 19:19:06
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1139496
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

My one free Saturday paper story this week.
—-

The request from Christopher Pyne was simple but unexpected. Malcolm Turnbull’s leadership was in trouble, and he was hoping GetUp! might help do numbers for him.

It was the last Saturday of November in 2009 and the phone call was to Simon Sheikh, then national director of the activist group.

“He complained that conservative organisations, particularly the Australian Christian Lobby, were contacting MPs to advocate support for Abbott,” Sheikh says. “He asked if I could organise for people to email or call MPs in support of Turnbull.”

Pyne had specifics in mind. He offered to provide GetUp! with a list of about 10 undecided MPs, whose votes might be swayed by a lobbying campaign. Given the events of this week, it seems particularly curious in hindsight.

Sheikh and Pyne had established a reasonable relationship, although the MP had expressed his frustration that GetUp! did not sufficiently distinguish between moderate Liberals such as himself and the party’s conservatives.
“The 2016 targeting of the hard right was actually a pro-Turnbull campaign. It was designed to make him a more effective prime minister by removing the hard-right people from his party.”

But Sheikh had some sympathy for Pyne’s request: the progressive agenda of GetUp! would likely fare better under Turnbull’s continued leadership than it would under Tony Abbott’s.

Ultimately, however, Sheikh declined. As an excuse, he said GetUp! could not organise it in the available time. The truth was he didn’t want GetUp! involved in the Liberal Party’s internal machinations. A few days later, on Tuesday, December 1, Abbott won the leadership by just one vote.

In retrospect, Sheikh thinks he made the right call.

“I doubt that GetUp! could have had any impact,” he says, but concedes also that given “how bad” the Abbott government subsequently proved to be, he sometimes wonders “if we should have done anything we could”.

The call did plant the seed of an idea, however. The following year, GetUp! first contemplated a strategy of targeting individual politicians. They got as far as drawing up a hit list of those they saw as “holding back change”.

According to Sheikh, the list was not bound by party: “We identified people like Martin Ferguson in the Labor Party as well as some in the Coalition.”

But the organisation had other priorities at the time, and the targeting campaign went on the backburner. Five years and two directors later, though, the current head of the organisation, Paul Oosting, revived it. Once again, factional tension within the Coalition provided the impetus.

Shortly after Turnbull seized back the Liberal leadership – and the prime ministership – from Abbott in September 2016, the organisation polled its members on their views.

“We found something like 70 per cent of our members preferred Turnbull and 12 per cent preferred Bill Shorten,” Oosting says.

The thing that struck Oosting was that Turnbull and his previously articulated progressive views did not enjoy nearly such strong support within the government as they did with the general public and with GetUp! members. Turnbull had only beaten Abbott 54-44, and had been forced to adopt more right-wing positions to get the numbers.

So the targeting strategy was dusted off. The rationale was simple: the Turnbull government would be better if there were fewer right-wingers in it. Before last year’s federal election, GetUp! identified a dozen seats held by “hard right” Coalition MPs: Bass, Dickson, Dawson, Macquarie, Macarthur, Deakin, Mayo, Cowper, Page, Braddon, Grey, Gilmore and, to a lesser extent, New England.

What began was the biggest campaign ever undertaken by an organisation not affiliated with a political party. It involved 40,000 phone calls – not robo-calls but live conversations – as well as extensive doorknocking, letterboxing, online advertising et cetera.

In almost all the targeted seats, the swings against the government were higher than the national average. The government lost Bass, Braddon, Macarthur, Macquarie and Mayo. GetUp! went close to claiming another very significant scalp, in Immigration Minister Peter Dutton’s seat of Dickson, where the margin was slashed from 6.7 to 1.6 per cent.

Tasmanian Liberal Senator Eric Abetz, whose fiefdom of hard-right loyalists was particularly hard-hit by the loss of Bass and Braddon, called the GetUp! campaigners “grubs”. He has since devoted great energy and significant parliamentary time to alleging non-existent conspiracies involving GetUp! and various dark, anti-democratic international forces.

There is little evidence of this. Nonetheless, GetUp! is in a fair measure of difficulty right now, largely as a consequence of its intervention in the 2016 election.

This week’s story begins on Tuesday, when 13 federal police officers raided the Sydney and Melbourne offices of the union Bill Shorten used to lead, the Australian Workers’ Union (AWU), in search of documents that could show the union had disbursed funds improperly. The raids were ordered by the government’s new Registered Organisations Commission (ROC) – set up after a $46 million royal commission failed to find any dirt on Shorten – which in turn was acting on a referral by Employment Minister Michaelia Cash.

The timing was unfortunate, given the raids happened on the same day that Australian Federal Police (AFP) commissioner Andrew Colvin told a senate estimates committee that the police had been forced to cut back on investigations into organised crime, fraud, anti-corruption and child exploitation in the face of a $184 million budget cut.

Things quickly got worse for the government. Someone had tipped off media, so they were waiting at the AWU offices when the police arrived. Labor’s Anthony Albanese subsequently claimed Cash’s office had been “ringing around media organisations” informing them of the pending raids. The crucial senate crossbencher, Nick Xenophon, labelled the raids an abuse and a “political witch-hunt” and called for an independent inquiry into the leak.

Apparently, the police were looking for evidence that a series of donations by the union, made about a decade ago, were not signed off by the union’s national executive. Several went to fund Labor candidates, including $25,000 to Bill Shorten’s 2007 campaign. There was also $100,000, given to help establish GetUp!

Labor and the union maintain all were lawful donations, declared at the time and cleared according to proper process. The AWU began a Federal Court challenge over the seizure of documents, and insists in any case that the relevant documents had already been provided to the trade unions royal commission.

In estimates on Wednesday, Cash said on at least five occasions that neither she nor her office staff had alerted the media to the raids. Indeed, she said they were not even aware in advance that the raids were to happen. Turnbull gave similar assurances to the house, on Cash’s advice. She also insisted there were “very serious questions for Mr Shorten to answer”. The Registered Organisations Commission itself later said the investigation was not into Shorten, but into the union.

Cash’s denial of involvement in alerting the media was not true. That evening, she confessed a member of her staff had told journalists, and had resigned. She is in deep trouble over her apparent misleading of parliament. The convention used to be that ministers took responsibility for the actions of their staff, and Labor is demanding her resignation.

To sum up: the AWU may or may not be in trouble, but Cash definitely is. While it is conceivable that a staffer could leak information without her knowledge, it stretches credulity that he knew the raids were happening but did not tell her. The whole stunt appears to have backfired badly on the government and the commission.

As for GetUp!, the government and its surrogates, particularly in the Murdoch media, continue to claim the donation as evidence that the activist group is actually a cat’s paw for the Labor Party and the Greens.

This presents a real problem for the organisation. It has always pitched itself as progressive but not partisan in a traditional political sense. The threat comes not from the ROC, but from another statutory body, the Australian Electoral Commission (AEC).

For several months the electoral commission has been examining whether GetUp! should be classified under the Electoral Act as an “associated entity” of a political party. Extraordinarily, the commission is considering whether GetUp! should be considered an associated entity of two parties, Labor and the Greens.

Since late June, the commission and the organisation have been engaged in voluminous correspondence, arguing over whether GetUp! qualifies. No determination has been made, but if it were determined that the group was an associated entity it would force GetUp! to lodge financial disclosure returns with the commission.

It is not the disclosure, per se, to which GetUp! objects, but the classification. It argues that it is driven by the values and issues of its supporters, fully independent of party loyalties. Classification as an associated entity would stigmatise it.

Says Oosting: “We want to make it clear to the electoral commission we have no issue with financial transparency. We disclose all the information required of a political party or an associated entity. But we simply are not an associated entity, and to be treated as one would risk our independence. We have been established to operate outside of the political mechanisms. We are here to give a voice to people’s concerns, through non-party- political means.”

Experts in electoral law say GetUp! has a strong argument, but the commission is under enormous pressure from the Coalition parties to declare the organisation an associate of Labor and the Greens. That is the only way the Coalition can see to hit back at an organisation that is unique in its capacity to do damage to conservative politics.

Most other civil society groups, such as the major conservation organisations, rely on tax-deductible donations from their supporters. But the Charities Act forbids them from partisan political campaigning. They can advocate on issues within their remit, but if they try to tell people how to vote they risk losing their tax-deductible status. In its war on dissent – many aspects of which this paper has published on previously – the government is seeking to tighten the rules further, to limit the capacity of such groups to engage even in general advocacy of their causes.

But GetUp! has never sought charitable status.

Many organisations, such as legal aid organisations, also receive some funding from government to support their operations, and there too the government has sought to close down debate by making funding contingent on agreement not to engage in inconvenient advocacy.

But GetUp! gets no money from government.

The reality is that GetUp! is immune to the kinds of pressure an increasingly authoritarian government seeks to apply to other civil society groups. Hence the pressure on the electoral commission to have it declared an associated entity.

The rules around associated entities were formulated to try to catch parties dodging the edges of disclosure laws, typically by taking money from or giving money to other organisations set up to assist with their campaigning.

The electoral commission has a number of tests it uses to identify associated entities. To qualify they must: be controlled by one or more registered political parties; be a financial member of a registered political party; be an entity on whose behalf another person is a financial member of a party; have voting rights in a political party; or, be an entity on whose behalf another person has voting rights in a party.

GetUp! fulfils none of those criteria. It neither takes money from nor gives money to any party. It has no voting rights and represents no one with voting rights. It has no formal links of any kind with any party.

The only criterion the electoral commission could point to as being a relevant consideration in its letters to GetUp! was that the organisation might be seen as “an entity that operates wholly, or to a significant extent for the benefit of one or more political parties”.

But that is a highly subjective test, as the commission conceded in its first letter to GetUp! back in June. The mere fact an organisation had what it called a “left” agenda did not necessarily mean it was operating “for the benefit of all ‘left’ political parties”, it said.

The commission noted, however, that over the past year or so GetUp! had actively campaigned against Liberal and National Party members, and all the issues on which it campaigned appeared to be “in direct alignment with either the Australian Labor Party or the Australian Greens”.

But even if that were correct, the fact that the policy positions taken by GetUp! aligned with certain political parties did not mean it colluded with them.

The same test might equally be applied to a large number of other entities.

Consider, for example, the Murdoch media, which campaigns relentlessly against Labor at election time. Arguably a banner headline, such as The Daily Telegraph’s “Kick This Mob Out”, published during the 2013 federal election campaign, marks it as being every bit as partisan as GetUp!

Why is the AEC not investigating the declaration of News Corp as an associated entity of the Liberal Party? Or, for that matter, the Minerals Council or the Australian Christian Lobby, or the right-wing talkback hosts on commercial radio, whose campaigning might equally be seen as directed “wholly, or to a significant extent for the benefit” of the conservative parties?

As Professor Graeme Orr, an expert in electoral law at the University of Queensland, told the ABC this week:

“GetUp! might exist to a significant extent to benefit the progressive side of politics … but it doesn’t co-ordinate with political parties. So there’s no reason to think GetUp! is an associated entity of a party.

“Merely existing to advance progressive politics, to pull the political centre to the left, does not mean someone is associated with or co-ordinating with one or more political parties. If the government wants greater disclosure from anyone, whether it be News Ltd, through its newspapers, the IPA or GetUp!, it should probably amend the law.”

There’s no chance at all of that happening, which seems to leave the electoral commission in the position of not knowing what to do about GetUp!. It leaves the government and its associated entities in the media with no option but to fling what dirt it can find about the organisation.

There’s precious little of that. The fact is, the people who set up and supported GetUp! personify the kind of entrepreneurial, tech-savvy, agile attributes Malcolm Turnbull usually admires.

Amanda Tattersall is one of the three main founders of GetUp!. She says the idea for the organisation came in response to political events of 2004. One was John Kerry’s loss to George W. Bush in the United States presidential election. The other was Mark Latham’s huge loss to John Howard in the Australian election, which saw the conservatives control both houses of parliament.

Clearly the progressive agenda could not be pursued through the usual political channels.

Another founder was Jeremy Heimans, who had graduated Sydney Boys High with a score of 99.95, gone on to Sydney University, and then to Oxford University and Harvard’s John F. Kennedy School of Government, where he completed a master’s degree in public policy. He went on to work for the management consultants McKinsey.

At Harvard, Heimans met another bright young man, David Madden, a former army officer and graduate of arts law at the University of NSW, who was there on a scholarship and also studying for a public policy masters.

The pair were politically active, and inspired by Move On, an organisation set up in 1998 by a couple of Silicon Valley software entrepreneurs, harnessing sophisticated online techniques to advocate progressive causes and to raise money for the Democratic Party.

On their return to Australia, the two connected with Tattersall, who had a history in various community advocacy groups and who was then working at Unions New South Wales. In December 2004, in an Oxford Street cafe in Sydney, they discussed what she calls “the cool, digital stuff” that was happening in America. They wanted to establish something more independent of formal party politics than Move On, and so they did.

Tattersall persuaded John Robertson, then secretary of Unions NSW, to kick in $50,000 in seed funding. Three other major donors also committed: Evan Thornley, Joe Skrzynski and Julian Knights. All came from an entrepreneurial private equity or venture capital background.

Simon Sheikh – who also defies the usual activist stereotypes, having begun his career in the NSW treasury – says the early donors had a big influence on the structure of the organisation.

“It worked from the start very much on a venture capital model. They set various metrics – money, membership, campaign success – that had to be met in return for ongoing funding.

“The consequence is GetUp! has continued to be very data driven. The pattern is: try something, fail quickly, always measure data, move on and learn. It is exactly the type of model Malcolm Turnbull advocates.”

It also is very member driven. The organisation regularly surveys its supporters on the issues and even the tactics it should run.

The AWU also donated $100,000, and Bill Shorten was briefly on the GetUp! board, but Sheikh and others insist the organisation “never saw it as our job to barrack for a party, but to be fiercely issue-based, because politicians are apt to disappoint as soon as they get into government”.

At least initially, GetUp! also had pretty good relations with some Liberals, including Turnbull, and even worked with them on some issues.

“The relationship with Turnbull developed over the issue of internet censorship,” Sheikh says. “There was an interesting coalition between Scott Ludlam, ourselves, Electronic Frontiers Australia and Turnbull, fighting Labor’s plans to stop what people could see on the free internet. There’s a long list of issues on which we have opposed Labor.”

GetUp! co-operated with other conservatives, including Tony Abbott, whose mental-health strategy it endorsed as being superior to Labor’s at the 2010 election.

But the relationship between GetUp! and the Coalition parties quickly soured, for various reasons. And it has been absolutely poisonous since last year’s election.

According to Sheikh, who now runs a fossil-fuel-free super fund called Future Super, the organisation’s focus remains single-mindedly on advancing progressive issues. Indeed, he argues that the 2016 election, where GetUp! campaigned against those right-wing MPs, exemplifies that.

“GetUp! has never gone out and said, ‘Don’t vote Liberal’,” he says, “But it has gone out and said, ‘Don’t vote Peter Dutton’.”

It’s a fine but significant distinction, made even more strongly by Amanda Tattersall.

“The 2016 targeting of the hard right was actually a pro-Turnbull campaign,” she says. “It was designed to make him a more effective prime minister by removing the hard-right people from his party. Sure, Eric Abetz didn’t like it. But Eric Abetz is part of that faction that wanted to undermine Malcolm Turnbull.”

Of course, Turnbull does not see it that way. Or if he does, he could never afford to admit it.

As for Christopher Pyne – he is not happy the world now knows about his phone call to Sheikh. In a curt statement, sent as Michaelia Cash faced a further session of questions in the senate, he said: “In the 2009 leadership contest I supported Malcolm Turnbull as leader of the Liberal Party and encouraged all those around me to do the same, including stakeholders and lobby groups such as GetUp.”

The decision not to use the group’s exclamation point was his own. Presumably, he doesn’t feel like shouting it.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 19:26:13
From: sibeen
ID: 1139502
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

sarahs mum said:


My one free Saturday paper story this week.
—-

The request from Christopher Pyne was simple but unexpected. Malcolm Turnbull’s leadership was in trouble, and he was hoping GetUp! might help do numbers for him.

It was the last Saturday of November in 2009 and the phone call was to Simon Sheikh, then national director of the activist group.

“He complained that conservative organisations, particularly the Australian Christian Lobby, were contacting MPs to advocate support for Abbott,” Sheikh says. “He asked if I could organise for people to email or call MPs in support of Turnbull.”

Pyne had specifics in mind. He offered to provide GetUp! with a list of about 10 undecided MPs, whose votes might be swayed by a lobbying campaign. Given the events of this week, it seems particularly curious in hindsight.

Sheikh and Pyne had established a reasonable relationship, although the MP had expressed his frustration that GetUp! did not sufficiently distinguish between moderate Liberals such as himself and the party’s conservatives.
“The 2016 targeting of the hard right was actually a pro-Turnbull campaign. It was designed to make him a more effective prime minister by removing the hard-right people from his party.”

But Sheikh had some sympathy for Pyne’s request: the progressive agenda of GetUp! would likely fare better under Turnbull’s continued leadership than it would under Tony Abbott’s.

Ultimately, however, Sheikh declined. As an excuse, he said GetUp! could not organise it in the available time. The truth was he didn’t want GetUp! involved in the Liberal Party’s internal machinations. A few days later, on Tuesday, December 1, Abbott won the leadership by just one vote.

In retrospect, Sheikh thinks he made the right call.

“I doubt that GetUp! could have had any impact,” he says, but concedes also that given “how bad” the Abbott government subsequently proved to be, he sometimes wonders “if we should have done anything we could”.

The call did plant the seed of an idea, however. The following year, GetUp! first contemplated a strategy of targeting individual politicians. They got as far as drawing up a hit list of those they saw as “holding back change”.

According to Sheikh, the list was not bound by party: “We identified people like Martin Ferguson in the Labor Party as well as some in the Coalition.”

But the organisation had other priorities at the time, and the targeting campaign went on the backburner. Five years and two directors later, though, the current head of the organisation, Paul Oosting, revived it. Once again, factional tension within the Coalition provided the impetus.

Shortly after Turnbull seized back the Liberal leadership – and the prime ministership – from Abbott in September 2016, the organisation polled its members on their views.

Gee, that year has certainly dragged on. It feels much longer than that.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 19:54:41
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1139510
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

mollwollfumble said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

mollwollfumble said:

> For the first time ever, an asteroid or comet from another star has been caught hurtling through our solar system, astronomers announced late Thursday. Provisionally designated A/2017 U1, the object appears to be less than a half-kilometer in diameter.

Yippee.

Do you have any idea how long I’ve been waiting for this?
Initially waiting impatiently – lately waiting grimly.

Two questions:

1) How do they know this rock is from another solar system?

2) What is so exciting about it?

They know the rock is from another solar system because of its velocity, or to be more precise, the eccentricity of its orbit.

The comets we all know and love are either in elliptical orbits or are in orbits extremely close to parabolic. Have a look at the eccentricity column in this table https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_hyperbolic_comets. Objects that come in from the outer solar system can, because of of the the pressure of sunlight and the solar wind, have orbits that are very slightly beyond parabolic. From 1.0 to about 1.003. But the relative motion of local stars would result in a hyperbolic orbit of any incoming interstellar object with an eccentricity way higher than 1.003.

2017 U1’s hyperbolic orbital eccentricity is 1.192 which is way too large to have an origin within the Oort cloud. It has to come from another solar system.

It’s doubly exciting because the composition won’t be the composition of the solar system. For example, the oxygen isotope ratios of asteroids and comets within the solar system are very well known and that gives us certain hypotheses about the formation of the solar system. Even a single data point from an object that originated outside the solar system could have a big effect on our theories about how the solar system formed.

And also exciting because hitching a ride on it would take us out of the solar system into interstellar space very much faster than hitching a ride on a comet with a near-parabolic eccentricity. Those with a near-parabolic eccentricity crawl to almost a stop before they get anywhere near the outer edge of the solar system.

Thanks.

All makes sense.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 20:01:13
From: sibeen
ID: 1139511
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

The Rev Dodgson said:


mollwollfumble said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Two questions:

1) How do they know this rock is from another solar system?

2) What is so exciting about it?

They know the rock is from another solar system because of its velocity, or to be more precise, the eccentricity of its orbit.

The comets we all know and love are either in elliptical orbits or are in orbits extremely close to parabolic. Have a look at the eccentricity column in this table https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_hyperbolic_comets. Objects that come in from the outer solar system can, because of of the the pressure of sunlight and the solar wind, have orbits that are very slightly beyond parabolic. From 1.0 to about 1.003. But the relative motion of local stars would result in a hyperbolic orbit of any incoming interstellar object with an eccentricity way higher than 1.003.

2017 U1’s hyperbolic orbital eccentricity is 1.192 which is way too large to have an origin within the Oort cloud. It has to come from another solar system.

It’s doubly exciting because the composition won’t be the composition of the solar system. For example, the oxygen isotope ratios of asteroids and comets within the solar system are very well known and that gives us certain hypotheses about the formation of the solar system. Even a single data point from an object that originated outside the solar system could have a big effect on our theories about how the solar system formed.

And also exciting because hitching a ride on it would take us out of the solar system into interstellar space very much faster than hitching a ride on a comet with a near-parabolic eccentricity. Those with a near-parabolic eccentricity crawl to almost a stop before they get anywhere near the outer edge of the solar system.

Thanks.

All makes sense.

I don’t understand the hitching a ride part. If you can get up to a velocity to math the object then you don’t need to use the object.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 20:02:44
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1139513
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

mollwollfumble said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

mollwollfumble said:

> For the first time ever, an asteroid or comet from another star has been caught hurtling through our solar system, astronomers announced late Thursday. Provisionally designated A/2017 U1, the object appears to be less than a half-kilometer in diameter.

Yippee.

Do you have any idea how long I’ve been waiting for this?
Initially waiting impatiently – lately waiting grimly.

Two questions:

1) How do they know this rock is from another solar system?

2) What is so exciting about it?

They know the rock is from another solar system because of its velocity, or to be more precise, the eccentricity of its orbit.

The comets we all know and love are either in elliptical orbits or are in orbits extremely close to parabolic. Have a look at the eccentricity column in this table https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_hyperbolic_comets. Objects that come in from the outer solar system can, because of of the the pressure of sunlight and the solar wind, have orbits that are very slightly beyond parabolic. From 1.0 to about 1.003. But the relative motion of local stars would result in a hyperbolic orbit of any incoming interstellar object with an eccentricity way higher than 1.003.

2017 U1’s hyperbolic orbital eccentricity is 1.192 which is way too large to have an origin within the Oort cloud. It has to come from another solar system.

It’s doubly exciting because the composition won’t be the composition of the solar system. For example, the oxygen isotope ratios of asteroids and comets within the solar system are very well known and that gives us certain hypotheses about the formation of the solar system. Even a single data point from an object that originated outside the solar system could have a big effect on our theories about how the solar system formed.

And also exciting because hitching a ride on it would take us out of the solar system into interstellar space very much faster than hitching a ride on a comet with a near-parabolic eccentricity. Those with a near-parabolic eccentricity crawl to almost a stop before they get anywhere near the outer edge of the solar system.

Very interesting.

It would be great to get a probe to one, we need to have AI’s look for them.

Say the probe was already built and already in space.

Perhaps a network of probes to cover the sky to get to one within reach that’s been observed?

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 20:03:30
From: Michael V
ID: 1139514
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

Lasso.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 20:04:41
From: sibeen
ID: 1139515
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

Michael V said:


Lasso.

Jerk.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 20:04:46
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1139516
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

Michael V said:


Lasso.

what would lasso do?

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 20:09:04
From: Michael V
ID: 1139517
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

sibeen said:


Michael V said:

Lasso.

Jerk.

Stretchy.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 20:09:07
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1139518
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

sibeen said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

mollwollfumble said:

They know the rock is from another solar system because of its velocity, or to be more precise, the eccentricity of its orbit.

The comets we all know and love are either in elliptical orbits or are in orbits extremely close to parabolic. Have a look at the eccentricity column in this table https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_hyperbolic_comets. Objects that come in from the outer solar system can, because of of the the pressure of sunlight and the solar wind, have orbits that are very slightly beyond parabolic. From 1.0 to about 1.003. But the relative motion of local stars would result in a hyperbolic orbit of any incoming interstellar object with an eccentricity way higher than 1.003.

2017 U1’s hyperbolic orbital eccentricity is 1.192 which is way too large to have an origin within the Oort cloud. It has to come from another solar system.

It’s doubly exciting because the composition won’t be the composition of the solar system. For example, the oxygen isotope ratios of asteroids and comets within the solar system are very well known and that gives us certain hypotheses about the formation of the solar system. Even a single data point from an object that originated outside the solar system could have a big effect on our theories about how the solar system formed.

And also exciting because hitching a ride on it would take us out of the solar system into interstellar space very much faster than hitching a ride on a comet with a near-parabolic eccentricity. Those with a near-parabolic eccentricity crawl to almost a stop before they get anywhere near the outer edge of the solar system.

Thanks.

All makes sense.

I don’t understand the hitching a ride part. If you can get up to a velocity to math the object then you don’t need to use the object.

My understanding is,

The object is already there and can be used as a carrier.

You just send a probe to the object to deliverer a task or science experiment, the probe then can be re tasked to visit other objects.

These kinds of objects can be used for lots of tasks.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 20:14:18
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1139519
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

sibeen said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

mollwollfumble said:

They know the rock is from another solar system because of its velocity, or to be more precise, the eccentricity of its orbit.

The comets we all know and love are either in elliptical orbits or are in orbits extremely close to parabolic. Have a look at the eccentricity column in this table https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_hyperbolic_comets. Objects that come in from the outer solar system can, because of of the the pressure of sunlight and the solar wind, have orbits that are very slightly beyond parabolic. From 1.0 to about 1.003. But the relative motion of local stars would result in a hyperbolic orbit of any incoming interstellar object with an eccentricity way higher than 1.003.

2017 U1’s hyperbolic orbital eccentricity is 1.192 which is way too large to have an origin within the Oort cloud. It has to come from another solar system.

It’s doubly exciting because the composition won’t be the composition of the solar system. For example, the oxygen isotope ratios of asteroids and comets within the solar system are very well known and that gives us certain hypotheses about the formation of the solar system. Even a single data point from an object that originated outside the solar system could have a big effect on our theories about how the solar system formed.

And also exciting because hitching a ride on it would take us out of the solar system into interstellar space very much faster than hitching a ride on a comet with a near-parabolic eccentricity. Those with a near-parabolic eccentricity crawl to almost a stop before they get anywhere near the outer edge of the solar system.

Thanks.

All makes sense.

I don’t understand the hitching a ride part. If you can get up to a velocity to math the object then you don’t need to use the object.

Similar idea to a planetary sling-shot I think.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 20:16:22
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1139520
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

Tau.Neutrino said:


sibeen said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Thanks.

All makes sense.

I don’t understand the hitching a ride part. If you can get up to a velocity to math the object then you don’t need to use the object.

My understanding is,

The object is already there and can be used as a carrier.

You just send a probe to the object to deliverer a task or science experiment, the probe then can be re tasked to visit other objects.

These kinds of objects can be used for lots of tasks.

Say you had a space telescope network.

You could place a radio telescope on the Interstellar object and extend the range and resolution of the network.

If we had known more in advance we could have done it to this passing one.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 20:17:08
From: dv
ID: 1139521
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

sibeen said:


sarahs mum said:

My one free Saturday paper story this week.
—-

The request from Christopher Pyne was simple but unexpected. Malcolm Turnbull’s leadership was in trouble, and he was hoping GetUp! might help do numbers for him.

It was the last Saturday of November in 2009 and the phone call was to Simon Sheikh, then national director of the activist group.

“He complained that conservative organisations, particularly the Australian Christian Lobby, were contacting MPs to advocate support for Abbott,” Sheikh says. “He asked if I could organise for people to email or call MPs in support of Turnbull.”

Pyne had specifics in mind. He offered to provide GetUp! with a list of about 10 undecided MPs, whose votes might be swayed by a lobbying campaign. Given the events of this week, it seems particularly curious in hindsight.

Sheikh and Pyne had established a reasonable relationship, although the MP had expressed his frustration that GetUp! did not sufficiently distinguish between moderate Liberals such as himself and the party’s conservatives.
“The 2016 targeting of the hard right was actually a pro-Turnbull campaign. It was designed to make him a more effective prime minister by removing the hard-right people from his party.”

But Sheikh had some sympathy for Pyne’s request: the progressive agenda of GetUp! would likely fare better under Turnbull’s continued leadership than it would under Tony Abbott’s.

Ultimately, however, Sheikh declined. As an excuse, he said GetUp! could not organise it in the available time. The truth was he didn’t want GetUp! involved in the Liberal Party’s internal machinations. A few days later, on Tuesday, December 1, Abbott won the leadership by just one vote.

In retrospect, Sheikh thinks he made the right call.

“I doubt that GetUp! could have had any impact,” he says, but concedes also that given “how bad” the Abbott government subsequently proved to be, he sometimes wonders “if we should have done anything we could”.

The call did plant the seed of an idea, however. The following year, GetUp! first contemplated a strategy of targeting individual politicians. They got as far as drawing up a hit list of those they saw as “holding back change”.

According to Sheikh, the list was not bound by party: “We identified people like Martin Ferguson in the Labor Party as well as some in the Coalition.”

But the organisation had other priorities at the time, and the targeting campaign went on the backburner. Five years and two directors later, though, the current head of the organisation, Paul Oosting, revived it. Once again, factional tension within the Coalition provided the impetus.

Shortly after Turnbull seized back the Liberal leadership – and the prime ministership – from Abbott in September 2016, the organisation polled its members on their views.

Gee, that year has certainly dragged on. It feels much longer than that.

lol

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 20:18:32
From: dv
ID: 1139522
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

sibeen said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

mollwollfumble said:

They know the rock is from another solar system because of its velocity, or to be more precise, the eccentricity of its orbit.

The comets we all know and love are either in elliptical orbits or are in orbits extremely close to parabolic. Have a look at the eccentricity column in this table https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_hyperbolic_comets. Objects that come in from the outer solar system can, because of of the the pressure of sunlight and the solar wind, have orbits that are very slightly beyond parabolic. From 1.0 to about 1.003. But the relative motion of local stars would result in a hyperbolic orbit of any incoming interstellar object with an eccentricity way higher than 1.003.

2017 U1’s hyperbolic orbital eccentricity is 1.192 which is way too large to have an origin within the Oort cloud. It has to come from another solar system.

It’s doubly exciting because the composition won’t be the composition of the solar system. For example, the oxygen isotope ratios of asteroids and comets within the solar system are very well known and that gives us certain hypotheses about the formation of the solar system. Even a single data point from an object that originated outside the solar system could have a big effect on our theories about how the solar system formed.

And also exciting because hitching a ride on it would take us out of the solar system into interstellar space very much faster than hitching a ride on a comet with a near-parabolic eccentricity. Those with a near-parabolic eccentricity crawl to almost a stop before they get anywhere near the outer edge of the solar system.

Thanks.

All makes sense.

I don’t understand the hitching a ride part. If you can get up to a velocity to math the object then you don’t need to use the object.

An exception to your reasoning would be if the rock had some resources that could be used to power a craft, or if it was so massive that its gravitational field could do part of the work for us, but in this case that seems doubtful.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 20:20:56
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1139523
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

The probes would also collect interstellar rock samples for return.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 20:21:22
From: AwesomeO
ID: 1139524
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

dv said:


sibeen said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Thanks.

All makes sense.

I don’t understand the hitching a ride part. If you can get up to a velocity to math the object then you don’t need to use the object.

An exception to your reasoning would be if the rock had some resources that could be used to power a craft, or if it was so massive that its gravitational field could do part of the work for us, but in this case that seems doubtful.

How about if you anchored it and payed out a loooong tether line with the payload on the end. As it circled back the payload would slowly accelerate and at maximum point cut the line.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 20:21:44
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1139525
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

Multitasking probes, just like multitasking satellites.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 20:23:41
From: dv
ID: 1139526
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

Although we do get some hyperbolic comets now and again (oncers)…

1/ they are always roughly in the plane of the solar system, since they’ve been deflected by one of the gas giants
2/ they are never anywhere near as fast as this, ie they don’t have anywhere near the total heliocentric energy (PE + KE) to mass ratio

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 20:24:53
From: AwesomeO
ID: 1139527
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

Then again thinking about it it wouldn’t work. They would be in the same speed and would share the same gravitational pull, albeit a tiny difference for the smaller size but I don’t think any length of tether is going to help that.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 20:31:00
From: dv
ID: 1139528
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

Alternatively, if you could get in front of this thing and then crash into it and survive (but not bounce off), you wouldn’t have to match its velocity.

In this particular case, that ship has sailed. Also LOL@ crashing into it at 40000 km per second and surviving. No aerobraking, remember.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 20:37:58
From: AwesomeO
ID: 1139529
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

dv said:


Alternatively, if you could get in front of this thing and then crash into it and survive (but not bounce off), you wouldn’t have to match its velocity.

In this particular case, that ship has sailed. Also LOL@ crashing into it at 40000 km per second and surviving. No aerobraking, remember.

You just build a nano matter web which has tightly coiled poly elastic tethers to absorb the shock.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 20:51:44
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1139537
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

Rocket engines and ion engines could be used as aero braking system in front the object, plus parachute system at the back of the object

Just have one or more rockets in front of the object, depending on its size and density work out how many rockets could slow down a smallish rock, there would be a size/density speed point where the rockets parachute wouldn’t slow down the object to be useful.

Getting large rocks to turn in space would be a useful experiment, the rocket positions would have to be pushing in a certain direction

hopefully to keep the object in an orbit around our system

If a probe is unable to match the objects speed then yes crashing into it is the next way to retrieve debris for collection.

A mission would need crash probe and retrieval probe.

Excited!

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 20:53:13
From: sibeen
ID: 1139540
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

AwesomeO said:


dv said:

Alternatively, if you could get in front of this thing and then crash into it and survive (but not bounce off), you wouldn’t have to match its velocity.

In this particular case, that ship has sailed. Also LOL@ crashing into it at 40000 km per second and surviving. No aerobraking, remember.

You just build a nano matter web which has tightly coiled poly elastic tethers to absorb the shock.

You could spread them out with an extensive drone network.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 20:54:40
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1139541
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

Tau.Neutrino said:


Rocket engines and ion engines could be used as aero braking system in front the object, plus parachute system at the back of the object

Just have one or more rockets in front of the object, depending on its size and density work out how many rockets could slow down a smallish rock, there would be a size/density speed point where the rockets parachute wouldn’t slow down the object to be useful.

Getting large rocks to turn in space would be a useful experiment, the rocket positions would have to be pushing in a certain direction

hopefully to keep the object in an orbit around our system

If a probe is unable to match the objects speed then yes crashing into it is the next way to retrieve debris for collection.

A mission would need crash probe and retrieval probe.

Excited!

no air so no aero braking or parachutes. mars has an atmosphere and that is hard to land on because it is so thin. this rock wont have one at all.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 20:58:51
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1139543
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

ChrispenEvan said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Rocket engines and ion engines could be used as aero braking system in front the object, plus parachute system at the back of the object

Just have one or more rockets in front of the object, depending on its size and density work out how many rockets could slow down a smallish rock, there would be a size/density speed point where the rockets parachute wouldn’t slow down the object to be useful.

Getting large rocks to turn in space would be a useful experiment, the rocket positions would have to be pushing in a certain direction

hopefully to keep the object in an orbit around our system

If a probe is unable to match the objects speed then yes crashing into it is the next way to retrieve debris for collection.

A mission would need crash probe and retrieval probe.

Excited!

no air so no aero braking or parachutes. mars has an atmosphere and that is hard to land on because it is so thin. this rock wont have one at all.

Wasn’t there discussion on using nukes shock waves as areobraking?

Maybe use all methods that can work in unison.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 21:06:25
From: dv
ID: 1139544
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

Tau.Neutrino said:


Rocket engines and ion engines could be used as aero braking system in front the object, plus parachute system at the back of the object

Aerobraking is the use of an atmosphere to brake. This thing is about 160 metres across. It has no atmosphere

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 21:09:16
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1139545
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

Tau.Neutrino said:


ChrispenEvan said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Rocket engines and ion engines could be used as aero braking system in front the object, plus parachute system at the back of the object

Just have one or more rockets in front of the object, depending on its size and density work out how many rockets could slow down a smallish rock, there would be a size/density speed point where the rockets parachute wouldn’t slow down the object to be useful.

Getting large rocks to turn in space would be a useful experiment, the rocket positions would have to be pushing in a certain direction

hopefully to keep the object in an orbit around our system

If a probe is unable to match the objects speed then yes crashing into it is the next way to retrieve debris for collection.

A mission would need crash probe and retrieval probe.

Excited!

no air so no aero braking or parachutes. mars has an atmosphere and that is hard to land on because it is so thin. this rock wont have one at all.

Wasn’t there discussion on using nukes shock waves as areobraking?

Maybe use all methods that can work in unison.

for example

have nukes go off in front

the shock waves are shaped towards the object

rockets in front of the probe would self correct as the shock wave passes over them

then another series of nukes go off

a series of nukes one after the other timed every minute

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 21:10:36
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1139546
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

dv said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Rocket engines and ion engines could be used as aero braking system in front the object, plus parachute system at the back of the object

Aerobraking is the use of an atmosphere to brake. This thing is about 160 metres across. It has no atmosphere

If you kick an object in the vacuum of space what happens?

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 21:12:11
From: dv
ID: 1139547
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

Tau.Neutrino said:


dv said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Rocket engines and ion engines could be used as aero braking system in front the object, plus parachute system at the back of the object

Aerobraking is the use of an atmosphere to brake. This thing is about 160 metres across. It has no atmosphere

If you kick an object in the vacuum of space what happens?

Answer: not fucking aerobraking

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 21:13:00
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1139548
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

Tau.Neutrino said:


dv said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Rocket engines and ion engines could be used as aero braking system in front the object, plus parachute system at the back of the object

Aerobraking is the use of an atmosphere to brake. This thing is about 160 metres across. It has no atmosphere

If you kick an object in the vacuum of space what happens?

it will move if the mass difference between the kicker and kickee isn’t too great.

shockwaves in space wont really happen for this purpose. no medium dense enough to propagate them.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 21:18:57
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1139550
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

Size is important.

Not all rocks in space are 160 meters or 6 kilometers wide.

To start off work with small rocks are 20 meters across and smaller.

These are ones to slow down and work with at the beginning and work up gradually to much larger objects.

What about a 50 meter object.

There would be range of objects that can be influenced into another direction, and other much larger objects that cannot be.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 21:21:10
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1139552
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

dv said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

dv said:

Aerobraking is the use of an atmosphere to brake. This thing is about 160 metres across. It has no atmosphere

If you kick an object in the vacuum of space what happens?

Answer: not fucking aerobraking

Use Solar sails, rockets ion engines and nuke blasts to turn a rock

Yes there is no fucking atmosphere in fucking space.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 21:21:13
From: sibeen
ID: 1139553
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

ChrispenEvan said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

dv said:

Aerobraking is the use of an atmosphere to brake. This thing is about 160 metres across. It has no atmosphere

If you kick an object in the vacuum of space what happens?

it will move if the mass difference between the kicker and kickee isn’t too great.

shockwaves in space wont really happen for this purpose. no medium dense enough to propagate them.

We could use the aether.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 21:22:21
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1139554
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

sibeen said:


ChrispenEvan said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

If you kick an object in the vacuum of space what happens?

it will move if the mass difference between the kicker and kickee isn’t too great.

shockwaves in space wont really happen for this purpose. no medium dense enough to propagate them.

We could use the aether.

Don’t be an aethole.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 21:23:15
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1139555
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

Tau.Neutrino said:


dv said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

If you kick an object in the vacuum of space what happens?

Answer: not fucking aerobraking

Use Solar sails, rockets ion engines and nuke blasts to turn a rock

Yes there is no fucking atmosphere in fucking space.

and having no fucking atmosphere still means you still can turn a fucking rock in fucking space

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 21:24:43
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1139557
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

weren’t we talking about landing on one?

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 21:25:06
From: dv
ID: 1139558
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

Tau.Neutrino said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

dv said:

Answer: not fucking aerobraking

Use Solar sails, rockets ion engines and nuke blasts to turn a rock

Yes there is no fucking atmosphere in fucking space.

and having no fucking atmosphere still means you still can turn a fucking rock in fucking space

You’re trying to trick physics.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 21:34:33
From: dv
ID: 1139562
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

ChrispenEvan said:


weren’t we talking about landing on one?

Yes, we’re discussing the possibility, and usefulness, of “hitching a ride” on a high speed interstellar rock.

Summary:

If you can velocity match this rock, it means you already have the means to accelerate the craft on a high speed interstellar trajectory, so you don’t need the rock.

If you can’t velocity match the rock, then you’ve basically got to attach yourself to it some how, so at some point there is going to be a change to your craft’s speed, brought about by the rock, of tens of thousands of metres per second.

And then what have you got: you’ve still got thousands of years to wait til it is near another star.

Of course, there are other reasons for visiting interstellar rocks than “hitching a ride”. It would be interesting to study in its own right. But you’d have to be very ready to go, I mean by the time this thing was discovered it was already on its way out.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 21:45:20
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1139565
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

sibeen said:


ChrispenEvan said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

If you kick an object in the vacuum of space what happens?

it will move if the mass difference between the kicker and kickee isn’t too great.

shockwaves in space wont really happen for this purpose. no medium dense enough to propagate them.

We could use the aether.

aether or…

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 21:45:55
From: dv
ID: 1139566
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

ChrispenEvan said:


sibeen said:

ChrispenEvan said:

it will move if the mass difference between the kicker and kickee isn’t too great.

shockwaves in space wont really happen for this purpose. no medium dense enough to propagate them.

We could use the aether.

aether or…

Much more of this and I’ll need to use ether

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Date: 28/10/2017 21:46:31
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1139567
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

These Asteroids in our system will have ships that will visit mine and return.

Asterank is a scientific and economic database of over 600,000 asteroids.

http://www.asterank.com/

Being able to control the orbits of these asteroids would be very useful .

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Date: 28/10/2017 21:48:21
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1139568
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

The Plan to Bring an Asteroid to Earth

This may sound like a crazy plan, but it was discussed quite seriously last week by a group of scientists and engineers at the California Institute of Technology. The four-day workshop was dedicated to investigating the feasibility and requirements of capturing a near-Earth asteroid, bringing it closer to our planet and using it as a base for future manned spaceflight missions.

more…

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Date: 28/10/2017 21:49:56
From: dv
ID: 1139570
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

Tau.Neutrino said:


The Plan to Bring an Asteroid to Earth

This may sound like a crazy plan, but it was discussed quite seriously last week by a group of scientists and engineers at the California Institute of Technology. The four-day workshop was dedicated to investigating the feasibility and requirements of capturing a near-Earth asteroid, bringing it closer to our planet and using it as a base for future manned spaceflight missions.

more…

Makes sense

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Date: 28/10/2017 22:06:04
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1139571
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

Tau.Neutrino said:


These Asteroids in our system will have ships that will visit mine and return.

Asterank is a scientific and economic database of over 600,000 asteroids.

http://www.asterank.com/

Being able to control the orbits of these asteroids would be very useful .

Lots of asteroids worth over 100 trillion

http://www.asterank.com/

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Date: 28/10/2017 22:08:38
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1139572
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

Related links
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asteroid_mining
http://deepspaceindustries.com/mining/
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-30/asteroid-mining-part-of-industrial-space-age/8572250
https://www.nasa.gov/content/goddard/new-nasa-mission-to-help-us-learn-how-to-mine-asteroids
http://www.wired.co.uk/article/asteroid-space-mining-phoenix-mars-chris-lewicki-planetary-resources
http://www.news.com.au/technology/science/space/the-first-asteroid-mining-and-resource-transaction-could-take-place-in-space-within-the-next-decade/news-story/b3ad4e4dae7709b53b5f36e24d84f91e
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/floating-treasure-space-law-needs-to-catch-up-with-asteroid-mining/

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 22:29:52
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1139581
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

How big could you build rockets?

Could you build rocket that’s 50 meters across, 100 meters across?

What is the upper limit ?

Big engines this size would use lots of fuel, which would have to be collected in space or the moon or mars or from other asteroids.

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Date: 28/10/2017 22:30:55
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1139582
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

Tau.Neutrino said:


How big could you build rockets?

Could you build rocket that’s 50 meters across, 100 meters across?

What is the upper limit ?

Big engines this size would use lots of fuel, which would have to be collected in space or the moon or mars or from other asteroids.


the saturn V would be a good guide to whats possible in reality

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 22:32:04
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1139583
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

wookiemeister said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

How big could you build rockets?

Could you build rocket that’s 50 meters across, 100 meters across?

What is the upper limit ?

Big engines this size would use lots of fuel, which would have to be collected in space or the moon or mars or from other asteroids.


the saturn V would be a good guide to whats possible in reality


they were going to send a crew to for a venus flyby using the saturn V, instead they decided to win the vietnam war instead.

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Date: 28/10/2017 22:34:39
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1139584
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

werner von braun had plans to land a gigantic spacecraft on the moon in a mayflower approach where the crew might be 50 people living on the moon for months

trying to land a huge rocket arse end on a far away planet / moon is risky, they were thinking of doing this for the moon missions.

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Date: 28/10/2017 22:40:05
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1139585
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

Interesting Reads

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacecraft_propulsion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket_engine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrically_powered_spacecraft_propulsion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_energy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_electric_rocket

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Date: 28/10/2017 22:48:02
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1139587
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

I was wondering about rockets only used in space what their size limit is.

And rockets taking off from Earth and what their Size Limit is?

What about a hybrid system of using rocket and mag lev propulsion or rocket rail, or rocket catapult system talking off from Earth.

Or using many different propulsion systems together to take off from Earth.

Mining companies will need to think about this stuff and more.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 22:48:21
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1139589
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

wookiemeister said:


werner von braun had plans to land a gigantic spacecraft on the moon in a mayflower approach where the crew might be 50 people living on the moon for months

trying to land a huge rocket arse end on a far away planet / moon is risky, they were thinking of doing this for the moon missions.

With a very long ladder down to the surface.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 22:52:44
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1139592
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

Tau.Neutrino said:


I was wondering about rockets only used in space what their size limit is.

And rockets taking off from Earth and what their Size Limit is?

What about a hybrid system of using rocket and mag lev propulsion or rocket rail, or rocket catapult system talking off from Earth.

Or using many different propulsion systems together to take off from Earth.

Mining companies will need to think about this stuff and more.


the saturn V engines were as big as they come

if you want to see the real way of getting into space….

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skylon_(spacecraft)

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 22:59:39
From: tauto
ID: 1139597
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

Tau.Neutrino said:


I was wondering about rockets only used in space what their size limit is.

And rockets taking off from Earth and what their Size Limit is?

What about a hybrid system of using rocket and mag lev propulsion or rocket rail, or rocket catapult system talking off from Earth.

Or using many different propulsion systems together to take off from Earth.

Mining companies will need to think about this stuff and more.

—-

Sunshine, it has been 45 years since we last set foot on the moon.
45 years ago I watched black and white TV and Bill Gates was a teenager.
Sad.
First we have to get back there before we go further.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 22:59:56
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1139598
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

Tau.Neutrino said:


I was wondering about rockets only used in space what their size limit is.

And rockets taking off from Earth and what their Size Limit is?

What about a hybrid system of using rocket and mag lev propulsion or rocket rail, or rocket catapult system talking off from Earth.

Or using many different propulsion systems together to take off from Earth.

Mining companies will need to think about this stuff and more.

easiest and most efficient way of getting a rocket into space is straight uppish. rocket engine work best out of the atmosphere so the sooner you get it to altitude the better.

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Date: 28/10/2017 23:02:13
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1139600
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9CWnV7aqgU

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 23:12:49
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1139608
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

How large and what thrust could an ion engine get up to?

Could you build one, one square kilometer across or even larger, 10 square kilometers or 50km or more using robots.

Could you take big rocket engines like the Space Shuttle engine – Aerojet Rocketdyne RS-25, Saturn V – Rocketdyne F-1 engine or the Space Launch System Engine and scale them by a factor of say 100 times or more bigger?

What could they move ?

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Date: 28/10/2017 23:24:02
From: dv
ID: 1139612
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

Of course, steering an near-earth asteroid (which has a fairly low velocity relative to earth) a few metres across into lunar orbit is a bit easier than redirecting something 160 metres across zipping past at 40 000 metres per second…

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Date: 28/10/2017 23:29:55
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1139616
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

https://www.wired.com/2011/10/asteroid-moving/

A network of asteroids to distribute / move things would be very useful.

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Date: 28/10/2017 23:31:03
From: dv
ID: 1139618
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

Tau.Neutrino said:


How large and what thrust could an ion engine get up to?

Could you build one, one square kilometer across or even larger, 10 square kilometers or 50km or more using robots.

Could you take big rocket engines like the Space Shuttle engine – Aerojet Rocketdyne RS-25, Saturn V – Rocketdyne F-1 engine or the Space Launch System Engine and scale them by a factor of say 100 times or more bigger?

What could they move ?

If money and resources were no issue, then yeah, what the fuck.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 23:33:53
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1139619
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

ion engines are high efficiency low thrust they are used mainly correctional thrust only

Reply Quote

Date: 28/10/2017 23:35:36
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1139622
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

Tau.Neutrino said:


How large and what thrust could an ion engine get up to?

Could you build one, one square kilometer across or even larger, 10 square kilometers or 50km or more using robots.

Could you take big rocket engines like the Space Shuttle engine – Aerojet Rocketdyne RS-25, Saturn V – Rocketdyne F-1 engine or the Space Launch System Engine and scale them by a factor of say 100 times or more bigger?

What could they move ?

A rocket has to consist of 85-90% fuel in order to reach Earth orbit. And the remaining 10-15% rocket has to be strong enough to control all that burning fuel without falling apart. So doubtless there would be all kinds of engineering constraints in regard to practical rocket sizes.

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Date: 28/10/2017 23:40:58
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1139623
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

The Tyranny of the Rocket Equation

by NASA flight engineer Don Pettit

https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/station/expeditions/expedition30/tryanny.html

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Date: 28/10/2017 23:45:19
From: dv
ID: 1139626
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

wookiemeister said:


ion engines are high efficiency low thrust they are used mainly correctional thrust only

Dawn was the first craft to travel from Earth to another celestial body, orbit, then depart and orbit another celestial body. Its propulsion system used three xenon ion thrusters.

Total delta-V (propulsive change in velocity) for the mission so far is 12000 metres/second. The total possible delta-V it can achieve is 13600 metres/second.

Despite the fact that thrust is low, you can achieve much greater delta-V from ion engines than from chemical rockets because the exhaust speed is so much higher. Exhaust speed from these ion engines used on Dawn are around 30000 metres/second, compared to around 4500 metres/second you could get from liquid hydrogen/liquid oxygen, or 2800 m/s from kerosene/liquid oxygen.

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Date: 28/10/2017 23:45:28
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1139627
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

dv said:


Of course, steering an near-earth asteroid (which has a fairly low velocity relative to earth) a few metres across into lunar orbit is a bit easier than redirecting something 160 metres across zipping past at 40 000 metres per second…

Yes, larger and faster objects too.

Still would be good to place a radio telescope on one passing by.

Say a hundred meter asteroid, place a radio telescope in front of it matching its speed then land on it.

The radio telescope has a long cable that trails out as the asteroid moves the cable gets wrapped around the asteroid, at the cable end is the transmitter which is earth visible.

Or land the telescope with rockets on the asteroid but still earth visible.

Or a number of scopes on the same asteroid getting a bigger view.

Something like that.

Reply Quote

Date: 29/10/2017 00:16:57
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1139649
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

dv said:


wookiemeister said:

ion engines are high efficiency low thrust they are used mainly correctional thrust only

Dawn was the first craft to travel from Earth to another celestial body, orbit, then depart and orbit another celestial body. Its propulsion system used three xenon ion thrusters.

Total delta-V (propulsive change in velocity) for the mission so far is 12000 metres/second. The total possible delta-V it can achieve is 13600 metres/second.

Despite the fact that thrust is low, you can achieve much greater delta-V from ion engines than from chemical rockets because the exhaust speed is so much higher. Exhaust speed from these ion engines used on Dawn are around 30000 metres/second, compared to around 4500 metres/second you could get from liquid hydrogen/liquid oxygen, or 2800 m/s from kerosene/liquid oxygen.


you extend the “burn” time

yes high efficiency

Reply Quote

Date: 29/10/2017 00:22:44
From: dv
ID: 1139652
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

wookiemeister said:


dv said:

wookiemeister said:

ion engines are high efficiency low thrust they are used mainly correctional thrust only

Dawn was the first craft to travel from Earth to another celestial body, orbit, then depart and orbit another celestial body. Its propulsion system used three xenon ion thrusters.

Total delta-V (propulsive change in velocity) for the mission so far is 12000 metres/second. The total possible delta-V it can achieve is 13600 metres/second.

Despite the fact that thrust is low, you can achieve much greater delta-V from ion engines than from chemical rockets because the exhaust speed is so much higher. Exhaust speed from these ion engines used on Dawn are around 30000 metres/second, compared to around 4500 metres/second you could get from liquid hydrogen/liquid oxygen, or 2800 m/s from kerosene/liquid oxygen.


you extend the “burn” time

yes high efficiency

Of course, you can’t use it for launching to low earth orbit.

Reply Quote

Date: 29/10/2017 00:50:59
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1139657
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

dv said:


wookiemeister said:

dv said:

Dawn was the first craft to travel from Earth to another celestial body, orbit, then depart and orbit another celestial body. Its propulsion system used three xenon ion thrusters.

Total delta-V (propulsive change in velocity) for the mission so far is 12000 metres/second. The total possible delta-V it can achieve is 13600 metres/second.

Despite the fact that thrust is low, you can achieve much greater delta-V from ion engines than from chemical rockets because the exhaust speed is so much higher. Exhaust speed from these ion engines used on Dawn are around 30000 metres/second, compared to around 4500 metres/second you could get from liquid hydrogen/liquid oxygen, or 2800 m/s from kerosene/liquid oxygen.


you extend the “burn” time

yes high efficiency

Of course, you can’t use it for launching to low earth orbit.


best used in space

Reply Quote

Date: 29/10/2017 08:27:28
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1139682
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

How about a probe rocket assisted sling shot from the moon?

Or a rail assisted rocket or mag lev assisted rocket also located on the moon?

How long would a rail or mag lev have to be?

What speeds could be achieved?

Reply Quote

Date: 29/10/2017 08:56:29
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1139694
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

Tau.Neutrino said:


How about a probe rocket assisted sling shot from the moon?

Or a rail assisted rocket or mag lev assisted rocket also located on the moon?

How long would a rail or mag lev have to be?

What speeds could be achieved?

Or perhaps build a mag lev assisted rocket in space, no gravity to slow things down.

Reply Quote

Date: 29/10/2017 09:13:39
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1139704
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

Tau.Neutrino said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

How about a probe rocket assisted sling shot from the moon?

Or a rail assisted rocket or mag lev assisted rocket also located on the moon?

How long would a rail or mag lev have to be?

What speeds could be achieved?

Or perhaps build a mag lev assisted rocket in space, no gravity to slow things down.

think about newtons laws, especially the one that states that for every action there is an equal but opposite reaction.

Reply Quote

Date: 29/10/2017 09:17:59
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1139706
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

ChrispenEvan said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

How about a probe rocket assisted sling shot from the moon?

Or a rail assisted rocket or mag lev assisted rocket also located on the moon?

How long would a rail or mag lev have to be?

What speeds could be achieved?

Or perhaps build a mag lev assisted rocket in space, no gravity to slow things down.

think about newtons laws, especially the one that states that for every action there is an equal but opposite reaction.

Just use dark matter for your reaction.

Reply Quote

Date: 29/10/2017 09:24:43
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1139707
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

The Rev Dodgson said:


ChrispenEvan said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Or perhaps build a mag lev assisted rocket in space, no gravity to slow things down.

think about newtons laws, especially the one that states that for every action there is an equal but opposite reaction.

Just use dark matter for your reaction.

How far out could one extend a rail system or mag lev or electric catapult system from the moons surface out into space?

Any advantages?

Reply Quote

Date: 29/10/2017 09:30:31
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1139709
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

Tau.Neutrino said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

ChrispenEvan said:

think about newtons laws, especially the one that states that for every action there is an equal but opposite reaction.

Just use dark matter for your reaction.

How far out could one extend a rail system or mag lev or electric catapult system from the moons surface out into space?

You could build an orbiting space elevator type structure that would go out quite a long way. Mollwoll will do the numbers tomorrow.

Tau.Neutrino said:


Any advantages?

Could well be.

I’m surprised we don’t hear this discussed more.

Reply Quote

Date: 30/10/2017 13:59:02
From: dv
ID: 1140216
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

Sadly, the Asteroid Redirect Mission was cancelled in June of this year.
http://spacenews.com/nasa-closing-out-asteroid-redirect-mission/

Pity, it sounded cool

Reply Quote

Date: 30/10/2017 14:22:52
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1140228
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

Bubblecar said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

How large and what thrust could an ion engine get up to?

Could you build one, one square kilometer across or even larger, 10 square kilometers or 50km or more using robots.

Could you take big rocket engines like the Space Shuttle engine – Aerojet Rocketdyne RS-25, Saturn V – Rocketdyne F-1 engine or the Space Launch System Engine and scale them by a factor of say 100 times or more bigger?

What could they move ?

A rocket has to consist of 85-90% fuel in order to reach Earth orbit. And the remaining 10-15% rocket has to be strong enough to control all that burning fuel without falling apart. So doubtless there would be all kinds of engineering constraints in regard to practical rocket sizes.

Yes

But imagine building rockets in space which don’t have to lift off from earth.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/11/2017 23:21:30
From: dv
ID: 1152253
Subject: re: Interstellar rock

https://www.space.com/38838-interstellar-asteroid-oumuamua-space-cigar.html

 1st Interstellar Asteroid Is a Spinning Space Cigar
—-

Astronomers have determined that the mysterious object — which has been named ‘Oumuamua and given the official scientific designation 1I/2017 U1 — looped around the sun on Sept. 9 and made its closest pass by Earth on Oct. 14. ‘Oumuamua (whose name means “a messenger from afar arriving first” in Hawaiian) is now about 124 million miles (200 million kilometers) from Earth and is zooming away from us at about 85,700 mph (137,900 km/h) relative to the sun, NASA officials said.

Researchers scrambled to get some good looks of the interstellar interloper, which have revealed that this object is very special indeed. In fact, it’s like nothing we’ve ever seen before.

—-

Credit: K. Meech et al./ESO

With colleagues from UCLA and the National Optical Astronomy Observatory (NOAO), Kotulla’s team captured some of the first images of U1 using the 11.5-foot (3.5 meters) WIYN Telescope on Kitt Peak in Arizona. These first images confirmed that the object doesn’t have a coma — the cloud of dust and gas that fizzes from a comet as it approaches the sun — and is therefore an irregularly shaped asteroid.

Now, in a study published today (Nov. 20) in the journal Nature, astronomers using the European Southern Observatory’s (ESO) Very Large Telescope (VLT) in Chile describe the strange characteristics of U1.

—-

The VLT’s FORS instrument was able to make very precise spectroscopic measurements of ‘Oumuamua’s brightness and color. By combining the VLT observations with those made by other telescopes, astronomers found that ‘Oumuamua’s brightness varies by a factor of 10 as it spins on its axis every 7.3 hours.

“This unusually large variation in brightness means that the object is highly elongated: about 10 times as long as it is wide, with a complex, convoluted shape,” astronomer Karen Meech, of the Institute for Astronomy in Hawaii, said in another statement, this one put out by ESO. “We also found that it has a dark red color, similar to objects in the outer solar system, and confirmed that it is completely inert, without the faintest hint of dust around it.”

—-

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