Moving an asteroid

The Plan to Bring an Asteroid to Earth | WIRED
https://www.wired.com/2011/10/asteroid-moving/

Say you had 1km by 1km square array of ion engines or larger.

A 1 km asteroid is on a colliosn path so needs to be nudged a bit.

The array is fixed to on the side of the asteroid and fired up.

Would that be enough to steer the asteroid.

Ion thruster

Asteroid

How many ion thrusters would it take to move a 1km asteroid assuming its density and weight is also known.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Say you had 1km by 1km square array of ion engines or larger.

A 1 km asteroid is on a colliosn path so needs to be nudged a bit.

The array is fixed to on the side of the asteroid and fired up.

Would that be enough to steer the asteroid.

Ion thruster

Asteroid

How many ion thrusters would it take to move a 1km asteroid assuming its density and weight is also known.

Obviously, this would depend on its speed and the amount of deflection needed.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Moving an asteroid

The Plan to Bring an Asteroid to Earth | WIRED
https://www.wired.com/2011/10/asteroid-moving/

Say you had 1km by 1km square array of ion engines or larger.

A 1 km asteroid is on a colliosn path so needs to be nudged a bit.

The array is fixed to on the side of the asteroid and fired up.

Would that be enough to steer the asteroid.

Ion thruster

Asteroid

How many ion thrusters would it take to move a 1km asteroid assuming its density and weight is also known.

You need the mass of the asteroid, not weight.

Force in N = Acceleration in m/s/s * mass in kg

So if you know the mass, and the acceleration you need, and the force per thruster, then it’s pretty easy to work out how many you need.

My rough estimate would be “lots”.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Moving an asteroid

The Plan to Bring an Asteroid to Earth | WIRED
https://www.wired.com/2011/10/asteroid-moving/

Say you had 1km by 1km square array of ion engines or larger.

A 1 km asteroid is on a colliosn path so needs to be nudged a bit.

The array is fixed to on the side of the asteroid and fired up.

Would that be enough to steer the asteroid.

Ion thruster

Asteroid

How many ion thrusters would it take to move a 1km asteroid assuming its density and weight is also known.

You need the mass of the asteroid, not weight.

Force in N = Acceleration in m/s/s * mass in kg

So if you know the mass, and the acceleration you need, and the force per thruster, then it’s pretty easy to work out how many you need.

My rough estimate would be “lots”.

is that in imperial or metric ?

diddly-squat said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Moving an asteroid

The Plan to Bring an Asteroid to Earth | WIRED
https://www.wired.com/2011/10/asteroid-moving/

Say you had 1km by 1km square array of ion engines or larger.

A 1 km asteroid is on a colliosn path so needs to be nudged a bit.

The array is fixed to on the side of the asteroid and fired up.

Would that be enough to steer the asteroid.

Ion thruster

Asteroid

How many ion thrusters would it take to move a 1km asteroid assuming its density and weight is also known.

You need the mass of the asteroid, not weight.

Force in N = Acceleration in m/s/s * mass in kg

So if you know the mass, and the acceleration you need, and the force per thruster, then it’s pretty easy to work out how many you need.

My rough estimate would be “lots”.

is that in imperial or metric ?

:)

One system for changing an asteroids direction is to let one fly into a net straight on.

The net then wraps around the asteroid leaving rope trails behind it.

A space tug then pulls the ropes in its direction.

Like the article said start off with small ones and then work up to the larger ones.

Tau.Neutrino said:

One system for changing an asteroids direction is to let one fly into a net straight on.

The net then wraps around the asteroid leaving rope trails behind it.

A space tug then pulls the ropes in its direction.

Like the article said start off with small ones and then work up to the larger ones.

probably have to stop any spin first.

ChrispenEvan said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

One system for changing an asteroids direction is to let one fly into a net straight on.

The net then wraps around the asteroid leaving rope trails behind it.

A space tug then pulls the ropes in its direction.

Like the article said start off with small ones and then work up to the larger ones.

probably have to stop any spin first.

That’s the idea of Dave Warner’s big thick bat.

Michael V said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

One system for changing an asteroids direction is to let one fly into a net straight on.

The net then wraps around the asteroid leaving rope trails behind it.

A space tug then pulls the ropes in its direction.

Like the article said start off with small ones and then work up to the larger ones.

probably have to stop any spin first.

That’s the idea of Dave Warner’s big thick bat.

dave is just a suburban boy.

ChrispenEvan said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

One system for changing an asteroids direction is to let one fly into a net straight on.

The net then wraps around the asteroid leaving rope trails behind it.

A space tug then pulls the ropes in its direction.

Like the article said start off with small ones and then work up to the larger ones.

probably have to stop any spin first.

that could be modeled on a computer

have a few counter spin rocket bots (big ones)

Tau.Neutrino said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

One system for changing an asteroids direction is to let one fly into a net straight on.

The net then wraps around the asteroid leaving rope trails behind it.

A space tug then pulls the ropes in its direction.

Like the article said start off with small ones and then work up to the larger ones.

probably have to stop any spin first.

that could be modeled on a computer

have a few counter spin rocket bots (big ones)

Can rockets can be made much larger in space?

Like scale up the SLS ten times or more.

Have a fleet of them in space waiting to move for rogue asteroids.

dv said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Say you had 1km by 1km square array of ion engines or larger.

A 1 km asteroid is on a colliosn path so needs to be nudged a bit.

The array is fixed to on the side of the asteroid and fired up.

Would that be enough to steer the asteroid.

Ion thruster

Asteroid

How many ion thrusters would it take to move a 1km asteroid assuming its density and weight is also known.

Obviously, this would depend on its speed and the amount of deflection needed.

Okay well you haven’t specified so I’ll ball park it for you. Suppose this asteroid is going at a slowish clip of 5000 m/s and we noticed it early enough that only a 1 degree deviation in its path will be enough to avoid catastrophe.

This means we need to impart an 87 m/s delta-v on it.

You’ve said it is a 1 km asteroid. So, ballpark, a mass of 1600 000 000 000 kg, 1.6 × 10^12 kg.

You’ve asked “how many” ion rockets you’d need to effect this, but that depends on how big they are.

Let us assume they are the xenon kind used on the Dawn mission.

One good thing about them is that they have an amazing wet to dry ratio. Including feeders, propellent storage, reaction chambers etc, the dry mass only makes up 5%.

You’d need 29 million of these in order to apply the required shift to this asteroid.

The total amount of hardware you’d need to launch would be about 4 800 000 000 kg, let’s say 5 billion kg, 5 million tonnes.

Of course, you also need to get this fucking thing from the earth’s surface to low earth orbit, and from low earth orbit to a trans-path to the asteroid, and then slow down at the asteroid to match its speed. Allowing for the rocketry to achieve this, you’d need about 20 million tonnes at low earth orbit.

Given this is a pretty big order you might get quite a sweet per kg deal on launch to LEO, say 6000 dollars per kg, so the launch might only cost around 120 trillion dollars.

Of course, the manufacturing costs would be higher than that, and building them would take the entire population decades, and there is also the problem that there is not that much xenon on the whole planet, but hey, there are no problems, only challenges.

Could a shaped line of gas deflect an asteroid?

Say the trajectory of the asteroid is known and its density etc

Create a line of gas in space which the asteroid flies up into or perhaps positioned just on one half side of the asteroid ?

How would the continued presence of the gas on one side of the asteroid or directly in its path effect the asteroids trajectory, act as brake or an attractor ?

Could you use a line of gas in space to steer an asteroid?

Or what about using a line of water ice or oil

Tau.Neutrino said:

Could a shaped line of gas deflect an asteroid?

Say the trajectory of the asteroid is known and its density etc

Create a line of gas in space which the asteroid flies up into or perhaps positioned just on one half side of the asteroid ?

How would the continued presence of the gas on one side of the asteroid or directly in its path effect the asteroids trajectory, act as brake or an attractor ?

Could you use a line of gas in space to steer an asteroid?

Or what about using a line of water ice or oil

Sure, all of that, but you’re still bumping up against the fact that you would need to launch millions of tonnes of the stuff.

dv said:

dv said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Say you had 1km by 1km square array of ion engines or larger.

A 1 km asteroid is on a colliosn path so needs to be nudged a bit.

The array is fixed to on the side of the asteroid and fired up.

Would that be enough to steer the asteroid.

Ion thruster

Asteroid

How many ion thrusters would it take to move a 1km asteroid assuming its density and weight is also known.

Obviously, this would depend on its speed and the amount of deflection needed.

Okay well you haven’t specified so I’ll ball park it for you. Suppose this asteroid is going at a slowish clip of 5000 m/s and we noticed it early enough that only a 1 degree deviation in its path will be enough to avoid catastrophe.

This means we need to impart an 87 m/s delta-v on it.

You’ve said it is a 1 km asteroid. So, ballpark, a mass of 1600 000 000 000 kg, 1.6 × 10^12 kg.

You’ve asked “how many” ion rockets you’d need to effect this, but that depends on how big they are.

Let us assume they are the xenon kind used on the Dawn mission.

One good thing about them is that they have an amazing wet to dry ratio. Including feeders, propellent storage, reaction chambers etc, the dry mass only makes up 5%.

You’d need 29 million of these in order to apply the required shift to this asteroid.

The total amount of hardware you’d need to launch would be about 4 800 000 000 kg, let’s say 5 billion kg, 5 million tonnes.

Of course, you also need to get this fucking thing from the earth’s surface to low earth orbit, and from low earth orbit to a trans-path to the asteroid, and then slow down at the asteroid to match its speed. Allowing for the rocketry to achieve this, you’d need about 20 million tonnes at low earth orbit.

Given this is a pretty big order you might get quite a sweet per kg deal on launch to LEO, say 6000 dollars per kg, so the launch might only cost around 120 trillion dollars.

Of course, the manufacturing costs would be higher than that, and building them would take the entire population decades, and there is also the problem that there is not that much xenon on the whole planet, but hey, there are no problems, only challenges.

So with a bit of grit and determination it is doable then.

dv said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Could a shaped line of gas deflect an asteroid?

Say the trajectory of the asteroid is known and its density etc

Create a line of gas in space which the asteroid flies up into or perhaps positioned just on one half side of the asteroid ?

How would the continued presence of the gas on one side of the asteroid or directly in its path effect the asteroids trajectory, act as brake or an attractor ?

Could you use a line of gas in space to steer an asteroid?

Or what about using a line of water ice or oil

Sure, all of that, but you’re still bumping up against the fact that you would need to launch millions of tonnes of the stuff.

Yeah, we need to make things in space

find iron asteroids and drag them to the moon

the moon has helium and other stuff

place an iron ore factory on the moon

have one those rocket rail or space elevator launch pads on the moon

start building some huge rocket engine bots above the moon

these then could be reused over and over

To start off,

Much larger rocket engines could be assembled in space.

Build a robot operated rocket assembly platform in space.

Start taking rocket parts up.

Then work out the best way to get one from one asteroid to another working outwards sending material to the moon.

Asteroid Database

http://www.asterank.com/

Tau.Neutrino said:

Could a shaped line of gas deflect an asteroid?

Say the trajectory of the asteroid is known and its density etc

Create a line of gas in space which the asteroid flies up into or perhaps positioned just on one half side of the asteroid ?

How would the continued presence of the gas on one side of the asteroid or directly in its path effect the asteroids trajectory, act as brake or an attractor ?

Could you use a line of gas in space to steer an asteroid?

Or what about using a line of water ice or oil

water could be collected from the moon or elsewhere is space, plenty of small icy asteroids

a spacecraft could make the water ice line in front of the asteroid and make adjustments on the go

the ideal size of the ice hail would have to be worked out

another space craft could collect the water steam from behind the asteroid

Tau

The things you are discussing are possible, on very long time lines, like hundreds of years. We are not at the epoch of civilisation yet where we can do those things. Too much energy required, too much labour, too much money, compared to the scale of the world economy.

I just moved six sleepers, solid ones that had been set in the ground for a while, a matter of two feet, along their entire length. Around corners too.

dv said:

Tau

The things you are discussing are possible, on very long time lines, like hundreds of years. We are not at the epoch of civilisation yet where we can do those things. Too much energy required, too much labour, too much money, compared to the scale of the world economy.

If a collision asteroid is detected how long will it take to get to it and move it?

The space hardware needs to be carefully designed so it can be re tasked to another job.

Roll out times need to speed up.

Engineering massive projects needs to speed up.

Computers and robots can do things really fast.

Task supercomputers to design the roll out.

Ants can carry 10 – 50 times their body weight on Earth.

Moving things around in space is different though.

I know this is future stuff

Rome was not built in a day

nor was the first ion ore factory on the moon

Tau.Neutrino said:

I know this is future stuff

Rome was not built in a day

nor was the first ion ore factory on the moon

——

The Caves of Marius….

I don’t know how a roll out into space would finally look like, it might change on the fly as it goes

but I imagine one possible rollout would look like this.

A few space stations

A few robot rocket assembly platforms in space These will assemble large rockets that can move smaller asteroids

these automated robot rockets will fly off into space attach to asteroids and then bring them back

A colony on Moon built into the underground caves to establish underground greenhouses etc support infrastructure.

Most of the fabrication material will be 3D printed moon material.

Then collection and refining areas built also in underground caves for moon resources such as helium and water etc can be established

While that is going on rocket bots will wait for the best position in space to then chase and bring back asteroids

These will be parked in an orbit possibly around the moon for future processing

Eventfully a multi metal refinery will be built on the moon

This will then allow for a larger spacecraft assembly platform orbiting around the moon

Very large spacecraft can then be built which cannot be built on earth.

Set up a space network of communication (NASA are doing one now) across the solar system

Then colonize Mars starting with robots that build underground facilities for future missions with people

future things to consider would be manufacture a multi material factory than can make all kinds of different materials

Bit like a star trek instant coffee machine but for manufacturing materials that makes 3d printed stuff

Something like that, but bigger.

once enough of these mining rocket robots are built to tug asteroids

they could also deal with earth collision asteroids

then go back to the asteroid belt

etc

A ring of asteroids in their orbit around the moon would be visible from Earth.

roughbarked said:

I just moved six sleepers, solid ones that had been set in the ground for a while, a matter of two feet, along their entire length. Around corners too.

I’ve just looked at it again and maybe I should have pushed it another two inches.

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

I just moved six sleepers, solid ones that had been set in the ground for a while, a matter of two feet, along their entire length. Around corners too.

I’ve just looked at it again and maybe I should have pushed it another two inches.

But I did leave room for that and now I have unstuck them all, that part will be a breeze.

maybe hybrid powered ion engines and rocket engines will push the asteroids from their orbit to the moon

like automated mining trucks

Tau.Neutrino said:

maybe hybrid powered ion engines and rocket engines will push the asteroids from their orbit to the moon

like automated mining trucks

We could be at the stage where we could do small asteroids with lasers?

roughbarked said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

maybe hybrid powered ion engines and rocket engines will push the asteroids from their orbit to the moon

like automated mining trucks

We could be at the stage where we could do small asteroids with lasers?

I wonder where hard light is at the moment, that’s another technology just starting off.

Tau.Neutrino said:

roughbarked said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

maybe hybrid powered ion engines and rocket engines will push the asteroids from their orbit to the moon

like automated mining trucks

We could be at the stage where we could do small asteroids with lasers?

I wonder where hard light is at the moment, that’s another technology just starting off.

Scientists Create Solid Light
http://www.iflscience.com/physics/crystallized-light-reveals-potential/

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

roughbarked said:

We could be at the stage where we could do small asteroids with lasers?

I wonder where hard light is at the moment, that’s another technology just starting off.

Scientists Create Solid Light
http://www.iflscience.com/physics/crystallized-light-reveals-potential/

Maybe target a earth collision asteroid with Solid Light missiles

Yes lasers could be used in space mining for sure

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

I wonder where hard light is at the moment, that’s another technology just starting off.

Scientists Create Solid Light
http://www.iflscience.com/physics/crystallized-light-reveals-potential/

Maybe target a earth collision asteroid with Solid Light missiles

Yes lasers could be used in space mining for sure

Well we could start with the shit we have already put up there.

The world’s most powerful laser weapon — blasts a car from a mile away!

Scale up a few of these to hit an asteroid

lasers are fired from a rocket propelled platform

I would like to join in this dircussion, but where to start, so much has been said already. But on the other hand not nearly enough has been said so far.

deevs, could you please show your workings on the 29 million ion thrusters required,

sibeen said:

deevs, could you please show your workings on the 29 million ion thrusters required,

F=MA.

sibeen said:

deevs, could you please show your workings on the 29 million ion thrusters required,

Yep, give me a mo

sibeen said:

deevs, could you please show your workings on the 29 million ion thrusters required,

“Okay well you haven’t specified so I’ll ball park it for you. Suppose this asteroid is going at a slowish clip of 5000 m/s and we noticed it early enough that only a 1 degree deviation in its path will be enough to avoid catastrophe.
This means we need to impart an 87 m/s delta-v on it.”

5000 x sin(1 deg) = 87.3

“You’ve said it is a 1 km asteroid. So, ballpark, a mass of 1600 000 000 000 kg, 1.6 × 10^12 kg.”

I don’t know what shape this thing is, but for a random ‘roid, a volume of 2/3 time max-dimension cubes is a reasonable number, and 2400 kg / m^3 is a normal sort of number for an S class asteroid. 2/3*1000^3*2400 = 1.6 × 10^12

Now, formally I should just Tsiolkovsky’s formula but in this case the final mass is going to be so much larger than the expended mass that you can use simple conservation of momentum. (I can redo it with Tsiolkovsky if you want but the answer will be basically the same).

The exhaust speed for each of the three Xenon ion rockets used on Dawn is 30000 m/s. Each of them can put out 160 m/s of exhaust (which is the same as the amount of propellent they each carry).

1.6 × 10^12 * 87 / 30000 / 160 = 29 million

So pretty much as this point in time unless we had many decades notice we’d be in real trouble if an asteroid was going to hit us.
I’m assuming we’d need to convert a significant percentage of the world economy to something similar to a major war manufacturing capacity to build anything’s to divert it.

Would impacting hundred/thousands of rockets against it be a better option to divert its path or its that too inaccurate

Cymek said:

So pretty much as this point in time unless we had many decades notice we’d be in real trouble if an asteroid was going to hit us.
I’m assuming we’d need to convert a significant percentage of the world economy to something similar to a major war manufacturing capacity to build anything’s to divert it.

Would impacting hundred/thousands of rockets against it be a better option to divert its path or its that too inaccurate

Tau suggested a 1 km asteroid.

It’s pretty rare for a 1 km asteroid to hit earth, maybe once in a million years. It’s not a major risk for us. There’s a bigger risk that some bozo will destroy the earth in a nuclear holocaust than that we’ll be hit by a 1 km asteroid.

Something closer to 100 metres across might be worth thinking about. That’s a “once in a few thousand years” thing, a significant risk that would do major damage.

I don’t think ion rockets would be the way to go: even if we only need 29000 rather than 29000000 of them, we’d need a lot of lead time to manufacture that.

Our entire nuclear arsenal could put a significant deflection on a 100 metre asteroid, and it already exists. You’d need to boost the rocketry, a lot, to turn nuclear missiles into nuclear rockets intercepting an asteroid, but you could do it with solid rocket boosters. It would still be a ridiculously momentous task that would need a major sector of the economy to produce all these solid rocket boosters: maybe doable with a decade’s lead time or so.

Morning punters and correctors.
Today will probably involve a trip to Bunnings (blessing and peace be upon it) to negotiate the vending of a reciprocating saw.

dv said:

sibeen said:

deevs, could you please show your workings on the 29 million ion thrusters required,

“Okay well you haven’t specified so I’ll ball park it for you. Suppose this asteroid is going at a slowish clip of 5000 m/s and we noticed it early enough that only a 1 degree deviation in its path will be enough to avoid catastrophe.
This means we need to impart an 87 m/s delta-v on it.”

5000 x sin(1 deg) = 87.3

“You’ve said it is a 1 km asteroid. So, ballpark, a mass of 1600 000 000 000 kg, 1.6 × 10^12 kg.”

I don’t know what shape this thing is, but for a random ‘roid, a volume of 2/3 time max-dimension cubes is a reasonable number, and 2400 kg / m^3 is a normal sort of number for an S class asteroid. 2/3*1000^3*2400 = 1.6 × 10^12

Now, formally I should just Tsiolkovsky’s formula but in this case the final mass is going to be so much larger than the expended mass that you can use simple conservation of momentum. (I can redo it with Tsiolkovsky if you want but the answer will be basically the same).

The exhaust speed for each of the three Xenon ion rockets used on Dawn is 30000 m/s. Each of them can put out 160 m/s of exhaust (which is the same as the amount of propellent they each carry).

1.6 × 10^12 * 87 / 30000 / 160 = 29 million

Ta. I got the 87 m/s, but was unsure how you calculated the rest.

You are a gentleman and a scholar :)

I wonder if you could intercept it way out and then mine it so not much is left by the time its meant to impact us.

Peak Warming Man said:

Morning punters and correctors.
Today will probably involve a trip to Bunnings (blessing and peace be upon it) to negotiate the vending of a reciprocating saw.

But how will you get it to the asteroid?

Peak Warming Man said:

Morning punters and correctors.
Today will probably involve a trip to Bunnings (blessing and peace be upon it) to negotiate the vending of a reciprocating saw.

is that you plan? cut up the asteroid into little pieces?

Peak Warming Man said:

Morning punters and correctors.
Today will probably involve a trip to Bunnings (blessing and peace be upon it) to negotiate the vending of a reciprocating saw.

Got a decent price on Xenon ion rockets?

Probably easier to rebadge an asteroid impact as the chance for a new beginning
Become a warlord in post-apocalypse Earth

Have you considered the problem of attaching thrusters to a place where the asteroid’s spin is going to throw them off into outer space even before they touch down, like it did with both Hayabusa and Philae?

The initial landing on the spin axis is relatively simple, you can easily and accurately match spacecraft speed to asteroid speed. But to stop the rotation two thrusters must be attached as far from the spin axis as possible, which is very unsimple.

Another concern is the type of asteroid. Not a common chondrite. You want either a carbonaceous chondrite or, at the opposite end of the scale, either an iron or stony iron. Each poses extra difficulties in terms of surface fragility or density.

Then there’s the issue of initial orbit. It has to be a near-Earth object not a main belt asteroid. This strongly suggests an Apollo, Amor or Aten asteroid. Probably best to avoid Amor asteroids as they aren“t Earth-crossing.

So add to that NEO mass constraints, not too big or too small. And add constraints due to orbital inclination and maximum rotation speed and you have your mission.

I can’t help wondering about Cruithne. Do we know enough to rule it in or out?

5 km diameter is darn big to be pushing around. A 27 hour rotation period isn’t too bad. It has a high orbital eccentricity of 0.51, and an orbital inclination of 20 degrees. It’s probably an ordinary chondrite. All together not a good combination.

Other coorbitals include 54509 YORP, (85770) 1998 UP1, 2002 AA29, and 2009 BD which exist in resonant orbits similar to Cruithne’s. 2010 TK7 is the first and so far only identified Earth trojan.

Let’s just look at the first. 54509 YORP has a size of 150×128×93 m, better, a spin period of 12.2 min, worse, an eccentricity of 0.23, better, an orbital inclination of 1.8 degrees, better, and a composition of not sure. A better bet overall but may still be much too large.

how about a hybrid rocket / ion thruster

once in orbit the rocket fires its rocket thruster in the direction of the incoming asteroid

then switches off the rocket, then turns on the ion engine which surrounds the rocket casing

the ion engine is used for the trip to the asteroid

send as many rockets as required

once at the asteroid, the rockets position themselves to move the asteroid

anchor pins are then fired into the asteroid

the rocket then hauls itself in

once all rockets are positioned

they fire up, and steer the asteroid elsewhere

once there job is done they detach from the anchor pins

the rockets then use their ion engines to get back

something like that

maybe a fleet of ten to twenty or more rockets depending on how big the asteroid is

NASA weighs asteroid TIME

How to Weigh an Asteroid — and Why You Should Care

Of all the things you don’t give a hoot about, the weight of asteroid 1999 RQ36 would probably rank high. But suppose you knew that the giant space rock is predicted to have eight close — and potentially deadly — encounters with Earth from 2169 to 2199. Suppose you knew that calculating its exact weight and mass will help scientists better track its path, not to mention determine how bad the damage would be if we actually did get clobbered. Would you care then?

Asteroid 1999 RQ36, which measures 1,800 ft. (560 m) across, is what’s known as a near-Earth asteroid,

It weights around 60 million metric tons

ok how many SLS rockets would it take move it in a vacuum of space?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Launch_System

Three versions of the SLS launch vehicle are planned: Block 1, Block 1B, and Block 2. Each will use the same core stage with four main engines, but Block 1B will feature a more powerful second stage called the Exploration Upper Stage (EUS), and Block 2 will combine the EUS with upgraded boosters. Block 1 has a baseline LEO payload capacity of 70 metric tons (77 short tons) and Block 1B has a baseline of 105 metric tons (116 short tons). The proposed Block 2 will have lift capacity of 130 metric tons (140 short tons), which is similar to that of the Saturn V. Some sources state this would make the SLS the most capable heavy lift vehicle built; although the Saturn V lifted approximately 140 metric tons (150 short tons) to LEO in the Apollo 17 mission.

Tau.Neutrino said:

NASA weighs asteroid TIME

How to Weigh an Asteroid — and Why You Should Care

Of all the things you don’t give a hoot about, the weight of asteroid 1999 RQ36 would probably rank high. But suppose you knew that the giant space rock is predicted to have eight close — and potentially deadly — encounters with Earth from 2169 to 2199. Suppose you knew that calculating its exact weight and mass will help scientists better track its path, not to mention determine how bad the damage would be if we actually did get clobbered. Would you care then?

Asteroid 1999 RQ36, which measures 1,800 ft. (560 m) across, is what’s known as a near-Earth asteroid,

It weights around 60 million metric tons

ok how many SLS rockets would it take move it in a vacuum of space?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Launch_System

Three versions of the SLS launch vehicle are planned: Block 1, Block 1B, and Block 2. Each will use the same core stage with four main engines, but Block 1B will feature a more powerful second stage called the Exploration Upper Stage (EUS), and Block 2 will combine the EUS with upgraded boosters. Block 1 has a baseline LEO payload capacity of 70 metric tons (77 short tons) and Block 1B has a baseline of 105 metric tons (116 short tons). The proposed Block 2 will have lift capacity of 130 metric tons (140 short tons), which is similar to that of the Saturn V. Some sources state this would make the SLS the most capable heavy lift vehicle built; although the Saturn V lifted approximately 140 metric tons (150 short tons) to LEO in the Apollo 17 mission.

And you reckon I’m not realistic

Elvis_Rieu said:

And you reckon I’m not realistic

They should have spent more money on your 3d rendering

dv said:

Elvis_Rieu said:

And you reckon I’m not realistic

They should have spent more money on your 3d rendering

They dropped a cool 10 mill on it already

Elvis_Rieu said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

NASA weighs asteroid TIME

How to Weigh an Asteroid — and Why You Should Care

Of all the things you don’t give a hoot about, the weight of asteroid 1999 RQ36 would probably rank high. But suppose you knew that the giant space rock is predicted to have eight close — and potentially deadly — encounters with Earth from 2169 to 2199. Suppose you knew that calculating its exact weight and mass will help scientists better track its path, not to mention determine how bad the damage would be if we actually did get clobbered. Would you care then?

Asteroid 1999 RQ36, which measures 1,800 ft. (560 m) across, is what’s known as a near-Earth asteroid,

It weights around 60 million metric tons

ok how many SLS rockets would it take move it in a vacuum of space?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Launch_System

Three versions of the SLS launch vehicle are planned: Block 1, Block 1B, and Block 2. Each will use the same core stage with four main engines, but Block 1B will feature a more powerful second stage called the Exploration Upper Stage (EUS), and Block 2 will combine the EUS with upgraded boosters. Block 1 has a baseline LEO payload capacity of 70 metric tons (77 short tons) and Block 1B has a baseline of 105 metric tons (116 short tons). The proposed Block 2 will have lift capacity of 130 metric tons (140 short tons), which is similar to that of the Saturn V. Some sources state this would make the SLS the most capable heavy lift vehicle built; although the Saturn V lifted approximately 140 metric tons (150 short tons) to LEO in the Apollo 17 mission.

And you reckon I’m not realistic

The naysayers are over there >

The real shakers, movers and scientists are here.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Elvis_Rieu said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

NASA weighs asteroid TIME

How to Weigh an Asteroid — and Why You Should Care

Of all the things you don’t give a hoot about, the weight of asteroid 1999 RQ36 would probably rank high. But suppose you knew that the giant space rock is predicted to have eight close — and potentially deadly — encounters with Earth from 2169 to 2199. Suppose you knew that calculating its exact weight and mass will help scientists better track its path, not to mention determine how bad the damage would be if we actually did get clobbered. Would you care then?

Asteroid 1999 RQ36, which measures 1,800 ft. (560 m) across, is what’s known as a near-Earth asteroid,

It weights around 60 million metric tons

ok how many SLS rockets would it take move it in a vacuum of space?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Launch_System

Three versions of the SLS launch vehicle are planned: Block 1, Block 1B, and Block 2. Each will use the same core stage with four main engines, but Block 1B will feature a more powerful second stage called the Exploration Upper Stage (EUS), and Block 2 will combine the EUS with upgraded boosters. Block 1 has a baseline LEO payload capacity of 70 metric tons (77 short tons) and Block 1B has a baseline of 105 metric tons (116 short tons). The proposed Block 2 will have lift capacity of 130 metric tons (140 short tons), which is similar to that of the Saturn V. Some sources state this would make the SLS the most capable heavy lift vehicle built; although the Saturn V lifted approximately 140 metric tons (150 short tons) to LEO in the Apollo 17 mission.

And you reckon I’m not realistic

The naysayers are over there >

The real shakers, movers and scientists are here.

Buddy I’m head of the real scientist club

Your not launching 60 million metric tons into space from earth.

Your moving it in space which is very different.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Your not launching 60 million metric tons into space from earth.

Your moving it in space which is very different.

The question is still valid

also

larger rockets can be assembled in space if required

If a impact with a large enough asteroid is predicted, given enough lead-time, it might be cheaper to devote our efforts to surviving the hit through artificial food production for the years where natural cultivation would be impossible. All it would require would be massive amounts of electricity.

Witty Rejoinder said:

If a impact with a large enough asteroid is predicted, given enough lead-time, it might be cheaper to devote our efforts to surviving the hit through artificial food production for the years where natural cultivation would be impossible. All it would require would be massive amounts of electricity.

You could harvest the lightning bolts.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Your not launching 60 million metric tons into space from earth.

Your moving it in space which is very different.

The question is still valid

also

larger rockets can be assembled in space if required

Yeah.

I still believe in air launched rockets carried to decent altitude by some specially designed kickarse conventional aeroplane. You could maybe launch a few in quick succession and assemble them in LEO.

party_pants said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Your not launching 60 million metric tons into space from earth.

Your moving it in space which is very different.

The question is still valid

also

larger rockets can be assembled in space if required

Yeah.

I still believe in air launched rockets carried to decent altitude by some specially designed kickarse conventional aeroplane. You could maybe launch a few in quick succession and assemble them in LEGO.

fixed.

PermeateFree said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

If a impact with a large enough asteroid is predicted, given enough lead-time, it might be cheaper to devote our efforts to surviving the hit through artificial food production for the years where natural cultivation would be impossible. All it would require would be massive amounts of electricity.

You could harvest the lightning bolts.

I wonder if you entice lightning with liquid metal?

Tau.Neutrino said:

PermeateFree said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

If a impact with a large enough asteroid is predicted, given enough lead-time, it might be cheaper to devote our efforts to surviving the hit through artificial food production for the years where natural cultivation would be impossible. All it would require would be massive amounts of electricity.

You could harvest the lightning bolts.

I wonder if you entice lightning with liquid metal?

If you put a bit of honey on it…

mcgoon said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

PermeateFree said:

You could harvest the lightning bolts.

I wonder if you entice lightning with liquid metal?

If you put a bit of honey on it…

if you like it, then you shoulda put a ring on it…

I’ve been asked to help on this scenario by a number of space agencies

Tau.Neutrino said:

Your not launching 60 million metric tons into space from earth.

Your moving it in space which is very different.

Can you be more specific?

Elvis_Rieu said:

I’ve been asked to help on this scenario by a number of space agencies

zero is a number…

Stumpy_seahorse said:

mcgoon said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

I wonder if you entice lightning with liquid metal?

If you put a bit of honey on it…

if you like it, then you shoulda put a ring on it…

Saturn’s got the ring(s).

Stumpy_seahorse said:

Elvis_Rieu said:

I’ve been asked to help on this scenario by a number of space agencies

zero is a number…

This jealousy of my importance is dissapointing

Stumpy_seahorse said:

Elvis_Rieu said:

I’ve been asked to help on this scenario by a number of space agencies

zero is a number…

so is negative one

dv said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Your not launching 60 million metric tons into space from earth.

Your moving it in space which is very different.

Can you be more specific?

An asteroid weights 60 million metric tons.

One SLS rocket has a thrust of 110.1 kN (24,800 lbf).

How many rockets are needed?

Me at NASA

Tau.Neutrino said:

dv said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Your not launching 60 million metric tons into space from earth.

Your moving it in space which is very different.

Can you be more specific?

An asteroid weights 60 million metric tons.

One SLS rocket has a thrust of 110.1 kN (24,800 lbf).

How many rockets are needed?

At least 1. Quite possibly more.

Tau.Neutrino said:

dv said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Your not launching 60 million metric tons into space from earth.

Your moving it in space which is very different.

Can you be more specific?

An asteroid weights 60 million metric tons.

One SLS rocket has a thrust of 110.1 kN (24,800 lbf).

How many rockets are needed?

How much deflection are we trying to achieve?

dv said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

dv said:

Can you be more specific?

An asteroid weights 60 million metric tons.

One SLS rocket has a thrust of 110.1 kN (24,800 lbf).

How many rockets are needed?

How much deflection are we trying to achieve?

depends for different near Earth asteroids

the further away the less deflection

the closer they are more defection is needed

for this one say its in the vicinity of Jupiter’s orbit

Tau.Neutrino said:

dv said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

An asteroid weights 60 million metric tons.

One SLS rocket has a thrust of 110.1 kN (24,800 lbf).

How many rockets are needed?

How much deflection are we trying to achieve?

depends for different near Earth asteroids

the further away the less deflection

the closer they are more defection is needed

for this one say its in the vicinity of Jupiter’s orbit

a nudge that far out would be enough

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

dv said:

How much deflection are we trying to achieve?

depends for different near Earth asteroids

the further away the less deflection

the closer they are more defection is needed

for this one say its in the vicinity of Jupiter’s orbit

a nudge that far out would be enough

so say a meter or two, at Jupiter distance with a few sls rockets

the Asteroid is 1,800 ft. (560 m) across

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

depends for different near Earth asteroids

the further away the less deflection

the closer they are more defection is needed

for this one say its in the vicinity of Jupiter’s orbit

a nudge that far out would be enough

so say a meter or two, at Jupiter distance with a few sls rockets

the Asteroid is 1,800 ft. (560 m) across

You mean a metre or two per second? What we’re imparting is a velocity, not a distance. If this is an asteroid that crosses Jupiter orbit and also Earth orbit, it probably has a heliocentric speed of something in the vicinity of 6000 metres per second. A 2 m/s change could change its direction by maybe 0.02 degrees. Oookay … at that distance, that could indeed be the difference between an Earth collision and a miss, so I’ll pay that.

Also if this thing is at Jupiter, then we don’t have the ability to launch these rockets to it. So first we need to design the launch craft to get an SLS rocket to Jupiter, let alone speed-match an asteroid.

I like you, man, I like your enthusiasm. Let’s work back from the requirements and see what we can do.

Sorry I got confused between asteroid and haemorroid and asteroid I’m the NASA expert on the former

dv said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

a nudge that far out would be enough

so say a meter or two, at Jupiter distance with a few sls rockets

the Asteroid is 1,800 ft. (560 m) across

You mean a metre or two per second? What we’re imparting is a velocity, not a distance. If this is an asteroid that crosses Jupiter orbit and also Earth orbit, it probably has a heliocentric speed of something in the vicinity of 6000 metres per second. A 2 m/s change could change its direction by maybe 0.02 degrees. Oookay … at that distance, that could indeed be the difference between an Earth collision and a miss, so I’ll pay that.

Also if this thing is at Jupiter, then we don’t have the ability to launch these rockets to it. So first we need to design the launch craft to get an SLS rocket to Jupiter, let alone speed-match an asteroid.

I like you, man, I like your enthusiasm. Let’s work back from the requirements and see what we can do.

Then we need to build a rocket assembly platform in space somewhere

It could be started from the ISS by astronauts then robots could take over its final construction

Then get all the bits and fuel to it

I would imagine the craft would end up as a kind of reusable multi tool on a hybrid rocket ion engine in space

rockets would be used for an initial burst in the asteroids direction

then by ion engines take over to cover the long distance

once at the asteroid rockets are used to match asteroid speed if possible ,otherwise use a net in front of the asteroid with long wires that can wrap around the asteroid

so depending on whether the rockets can land they do otherwise the rockets grab the end of the wires from the net (which is in front of the asteroid) then use thrust

or another way could be found to connect rockets to the asteroid

if successful the rocket multi tool anchors itself to the asteroid then hauls itself in

ion engine is then switched off

once all rocket crafts are in position

then they fire their rockets all together to move it a few meters or more

after the asteroid is moved they then detach

they then re position in space to come back

rockets are then turn off

ion engines are then turned on again get the multi tool back for another job

something like that

After the rocket ion controlled multi tools move near earth asteroids, they could then be reused for space mining.

They could be fitted with all kinds of tools and sensors.

design the hybrid ion rocket component

design the multi tool competent

design the anchoring pins that are fired into the asteroid

design an asteroid sample collection system

design the rocket assembly platform on earth

then get robots to build one on earth

then send the robots up to the space station to start building one

once the assembly platform is built start constructing the hybrid ion rocket engine, then the multi tool module is fitted etc

First international asteroid tracking exercise proves a success

An international team led by NASA has tested the International Asteroid Warning Network, which successfully tracked a potentially dangerous asteroid as it made a close flyby of the Earth in October. Billed as the first global exercise using a real asteroid to test global response capabilities, the TC4 Observation Campaign observed and plotted the orbit of the asteroid 012 TC4 as it passed within 27,200 mi (43,780 km) of the Earth.

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