Hi, I am a voluntary Ethics teacher at my local primary school and during the lesson this week one of the kids asked me (they know I am a science geek) “What colour is the sun”. I said that Dr Karl says it is white. Bang! Big discussion on whether it is white, yellow or orange. One kid said that hydrogen burns orange (I looked it up when I got home, apparently it has a weak orange flame). Is hydrogen actually “burning” in the sun though? Isn’t it energy from fusion? I could look it up but any guidance appreciated.

The exciting bit was when I threw a figurative grenade into the discussion by posing the question “OK, what colour is an orange in the dark”? Hoo boy! What fun!
Orange! Black! Grey! No colour!

Good times.
(these kids are year 5 and 6)

it is called burning but it is a nuclear reaction rather than chemical.

I now think it is red

“There are painters who transform the sun to a yellow spot, but there are others who with the help of their art and their intelligence, transform a yellow spot into sun”

Pablo Picasso

so, clearly, it’s yellow

ChrispenEvan said:

it is called burning but it is a nuclear reaction rather than chemical.

the Sun is essentially all colors mixed together

appears as white

Tau.Neutrino said:

ChrispenEvan said:

it is called burning but it is a nuclear reaction rather than chemical.

the Sun is essentially all colors mixed together

appears as white

sorry about that CE

Arts said:

“There are painters who transform the sun to a yellow spot, but there are others who with the help of their art and their intelligence, transform a yellow spot into sun”

Pablo Picasso

so, clearly, it’s yellow

what colour is the sun in the dark?..

Stumpy_seahorse said:

Arts said:

“There are painters who transform the sun to a yellow spot, but there are others who with the help of their art and their intelligence, transform a yellow spot into sun”

Pablo Picasso

so, clearly, it’s yellow

what colour is the sun in the dark?..

Arts said:

Stumpy_seahorse said:

Arts said:

“There are painters who transform the sun to a yellow spot, but there are others who with the help of their art and their intelligence, transform a yellow spot into sun”

Pablo Picasso

so, clearly, it’s yellow

what colour is the sun in the dark?..

chrome orange in that pic.

Sun at ultra violet

Arts said:

Stumpy_seahorse said:

Arts said:

“There are painters who transform the sun to a yellow spot, but there are others who with the help of their art and their intelligence, transform a yellow spot into sun”

Pablo Picasso

so, clearly, it’s yellow

what colour is the sun in the dark?..

Man if you look at that for a short while it looks like it’s moving.

podzol said:

Hi, I am a voluntary Ethics teacher at my local primary school and during the lesson this week one of the kids asked me (they know I am a science geek) “What colour is the sun”. I said that Dr Karl says it is white. Bang! Big discussion on whether it is white, yellow or orange.

a better question is why the sun is white, and not that it emits all colours so that it appears white, but why it emits all colours.

https://www.quora.com/Why-does-the-sun-appear-white

looks an ok answer.

sarahs mum said:

Arts said:

Stumpy_seahorse said:

what colour is the sun in the dark?..

!https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2017/08/solar-eclipse-2.jpg

chrome orange in that pic.

well, it’s dark

Peak Warming Man said:

Arts said:

Stumpy_seahorse said:

what colour is the sun in the dark?..

Man if you look at that for a short while it looks like it’s moving.

everything in the universe is moving, man.

Peak Warming Man said:

Arts said:

Stumpy_seahorse said:

what colour is the sun in the dark?..

Man if you look at that for a short while it looks like it’s moving.

I’ll have what he’s having

Peak Warming Man said:

Arts said:

Stumpy_seahorse said:

what colour is the sun in the dark?..

Man if you look at that for a short while it looks like it’s moving.

give Tau back his gear… man..

> “OK, what colour is an orange in the dark”?

the perhaps unexciting answer to that Q is that’s IR

On one hand:
The colour we call “white” is the combination of the light direct from the sun with the blue light scattered from the rest of the sky. So the light coming direct from the sun is white minus some blue, so it is yellow.

On the other hand:
Artificial lights that we call “white” are much yellower than the light coming direct from the sun, so the sun must be white.

Hope that helps.

The Rev Dodgson said:

On one hand:
The colour we call “white” is the combination of the light direct from the sun with the blue light scattered from the rest of the sky. So the light coming direct from the sun is white minus some blue, so it is yellow.

On the other hand:
Artificial lights that we call “white” are much yellower than the light coming direct from the sun, so the sun must be white.

Hope that helps.

Some artificial light is not yellow. the incandescent stuff is.
Fluro’s are tending blue so photos will come out green.
If you want to grow indoor plants under fluro, you need GrowLux which emits a balanced light between blue and red.

LED’s can get closer to white.

i’ve got quales in my head

transition said:

i’ve got quales in my head

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualia

transition said:

transition said:

i’ve got quales in my head

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualia

Nice.. want to tell us about them?

transition said:

transition said:

i’ve got quales in my head

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualia

Send in the quale catchers.

podzol said:

Hi, I am a voluntary Ethics teacher at my local primary school and during the lesson this week one of the kids asked me (they know I am a science geek) “What colour is the sun”. I said that Dr Karl says it is white. Bang! Big discussion on whether it is white, yellow or orange. One kid said that hydrogen burns orange (I looked it up when I got home, apparently it has a weak orange flame). Is hydrogen actually “burning” in the sun though? Isn’t it energy from fusion? I could look it up but any guidance appreciated.

The exciting bit was when I threw a figurative grenade into the discussion by posing the question “OK, what colour is an orange in the dark”? Hoo boy! What fun!
Orange! Black! Grey! No colour!

Good times.
(these kids are year 5 and 6)

Looks better than any conversation I’ve had in decades, forumites excepted of course. I hope you don’t leave out Bentham, Moore and unitarians in your ethics. Do you think I should try to become a voluntary Ethics teacher?

> Is hydrogen actually “burning” in the sun though?

The colour doesn’t depend on whether the light is from chemical or nuclear sources, but it does depend on temperature. As the temperature increases the colour goes from yellow to white to blue.

Or to put it another way, there are two separate parts to the colour – the colour from the spectral lines, of hydrogen in this case. And the colour from the continuous part of the spectrum, the blackbody radiation. As the temperature increases the proportion due to blackbody radiation increases.

mollwollfumble said:

podzol said:

Hi, I am a voluntary Ethics teacher at my local primary school and during the lesson this week one of the kids asked me (they know I am a science geek) “What colour is the sun”. I said that Dr Karl says it is white. Bang! Big discussion on whether it is white, yellow or orange. One kid said that hydrogen burns orange (I looked it up when I got home, apparently it has a weak orange flame). Is hydrogen actually “burning” in the sun though? Isn’t it energy from fusion? I could look it up but any guidance appreciated.

The exciting bit was when I threw a figurative grenade into the discussion by posing the question “OK, what colour is an orange in the dark”? Hoo boy! What fun!
Orange! Black! Grey! No colour!

Good times.
(these kids are year 5 and 6)

Looks better than any conversation I’ve had in decades, forumites excepted of course. I hope you don’t leave out Bentham, Moore and unitarians in your ethics. Do you think I should try to become a voluntary Ethics teacher?

> Is hydrogen actually “burning” in the sun though?

The colour doesn’t depend on whether the light is from chemical or nuclear sources, but it does depend on temperature. As the temperature increases the colour goes from yellow to white to blue.

Or to put it another way, there are two separate parts to the colour – the colour from the spectral lines, of hydrogen in this case. And the colour from the continuous part of the spectrum, the blackbody radiation. As the temperature increases the proportion due to blackbody radiation increases.

Well there you go.

mollwollfumble said:

podzol said:

Hi, I am a voluntary Ethics teacher at my local primary school and during the lesson this week one of the kids asked me (they know I am a science geek) “What colour is the sun”. I said that Dr Karl says it is white. Bang! Big discussion on whether it is white, yellow or orange. One kid said that hydrogen burns orange (I looked it up when I got home, apparently it has a weak orange flame). Is hydrogen actually “burning” in the sun though? Isn’t it energy from fusion? I could look it up but any guidance appreciated.

The exciting bit was when I threw a figurative grenade into the discussion by posing the question “OK, what colour is an orange in the dark”? Hoo boy! What fun!
Orange! Black! Grey! No colour!

Good times.
(these kids are year 5 and 6)

Looks better than any conversation I’ve had in decades, forumites excepted of course. I hope you don’t leave out Bentham, Moore and unitarians in your ethics. Do you think I should try to become a voluntary Ethics teacher?

> Is hydrogen actually “burning” in the sun though?

The colour doesn’t depend on whether the light is from chemical or nuclear sources, but it does depend on temperature. As the temperature increases the colour goes from yellow to white to blue.

Or to put it another way, there are two separate parts to the colour – the colour from the spectral lines, of hydrogen in this case. And the colour from the continuous part of the spectrum, the blackbody radiation. As the temperature increases the proportion due to blackbody radiation increases.

Its not yellow when viewed from other planetary bodies is it

Cymek said:

Its not yellow when viewed from other planetary bodies is it

Mars often has blueish sunsets.

Bubblecar said:

Cymek said:

Its not yellow when viewed from other planetary bodies is it

Mars often has blueish sunsets.

Do they have any photos from mars of the night sky with earth in it?

Mars has some quite spectacular and beautiful landscapes

Peak Warming Man said:

Do they have any photos from mars of the night sky with earth in it?

Yes, but not nearly as bright as it would appear to the human eye.

Bright ‘Evening Star’ Seen from Mars is Earth

This view of the twilight sky and Martian horizon taken by NASA’s Curiosity Mars rover includes Earth as the brightest point of light in the night sky. Earth is a little left of center in the image, and our moon is just below Earth.

Researchers used the left eye camera of Curiosity’s Mast Camera (Mastcam) to capture this scene about 80 minutes after sunset on the 529th Martian day, or sol, of the rover’s work on Mars (Jan. 31, 2014). The image has been processed to remove effects of cosmic rays.

A human observer with normal vision, if standing on Mars, could easily see Earth and the moon as two distinct, bright “evening stars.”

NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division of the California Institute of Technology, Pasadena, manages the Mars Science Laboratory Project for NASA’s Science Mission Directorate, Washington. JPL designed and built the project’s Curiosity rover. Malin Space Science Systems, San Diego, built and operates the rover’s Mastcam.

https://www.nasa.gov/jpl/msl/earth-view-from-mars-pia17936

Peak Warming Man said:

mollwollfumble said:

podzol said:

Hi, I am a voluntary Ethics teacher at my local primary school and during the lesson this week one of the kids asked me (they know I am a science geek) “What colour is the sun”. I said that Dr Karl says it is white. Bang! Big discussion on whether it is white, yellow or orange. One kid said that hydrogen burns orange (I looked it up when I got home, apparently it has a weak orange flame). Is hydrogen actually “burning” in the sun though? Isn’t it energy from fusion? I could look it up but any guidance appreciated.

The exciting bit was when I threw a figurative grenade into the discussion by posing the question “OK, what colour is an orange in the dark”? Hoo boy! What fun!
Orange! Black! Grey! No colour!

Good times.
(these kids are year 5 and 6)

Looks better than any conversation I’ve had in decades, forumites excepted of course. I hope you don’t leave out Bentham, Moore and unitarians in your ethics. Do you think I should try to become a voluntary Ethics teacher?

> Is hydrogen actually “burning” in the sun though?

The colour doesn’t depend on whether the light is from chemical or nuclear sources, but it does depend on temperature. As the temperature increases the colour goes from yellow to white to blue.

Or to put it another way, there are two separate parts to the colour – the colour from the spectral lines, of hydrogen in this case. And the colour from the continuous part of the spectrum, the blackbody radiation. As the temperature increases the proportion due to blackbody radiation increases.

Well there you go.

Yes, the colour of the Sun is mainly black.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Peak Warming Man said:

mollwollfumble said:

Looks better than any conversation I’ve had in decades, forumites excepted of course. I hope you don’t leave out Bentham, Moore and unitarians in your ethics. Do you think I should try to become a voluntary Ethics teacher?

> Is hydrogen actually “burning” in the sun though?

The colour doesn’t depend on whether the light is from chemical or nuclear sources, but it does depend on temperature. As the temperature increases the colour goes from yellow to white to blue.

Or to put it another way, there are two separate parts to the colour – the colour from the spectral lines, of hydrogen in this case. And the colour from the continuous part of the spectrum, the blackbody radiation. As the temperature increases the proportion due to blackbody radiation increases.

Well there you go.

Yes, the colour of the Sun is mainly black.

which is why you can’t see it at night.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Yes, the colour of the Sun is mainly black.

Yes. this is one QI question where I would have got the wrong answer. The sun is a lousy “blackbody”, so bad that nobody could even give it an approximate black body temperature until it was observed from space telescopes in UV and IR. Space observations allowed us to give it a precise temperature of 5777 K.

But despite the Sun being such a lousy blackbody, it’s a much better blackbody than anything else in the solar system.

The Rev Dodgson said:

On one hand:
The colour we call “white” is the combination of the light direct from the sun with the blue light scattered from the rest of the sky. So the light coming direct from the sun is white minus some blue, so it is yellow.

So above the atmosphere, what colour does the sun appear?

Divine Angel said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

On one hand:
The colour we call “white” is the combination of the light direct from the sun with the blue light scattered from the rest of the sky. So the light coming direct from the sun is white minus some blue, so it is yellow.

So above the atmosphere, what colour does the sun appear?

White.

Bubblecar said:

Divine Angel said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

On one hand:
The colour we call “white” is the combination of the light direct from the sun with the blue light scattered from the rest of the sky. So the light coming direct from the sun is white minus some blue, so it is yellow.

So above the atmosphere, what colour does the sun appear?

White.

Note that the eye, ocular nerve and brain are pretty flexible and automatically does white-balancing. The sun will look white, fluorescent light will look white, incandescent bulb light will look white: as look as there is a broad spectral coverage, your eye can handle it.

The yellow here is the spectrum of sunlight above the atmosphere, the red is the spectrum at earth’s surface. They are different from each other and neither of them is flat, but they both will basically look white to you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectral_sensitivity

transition said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectral_sensitivity

http://www.cems.uvm.edu/~tlakoba/AppliedUGMath/notes/Spectral%20Sensitivity%20of%20the%20Eye.htm

podzol said:

Hi, I am a voluntary Ethics teacher at my local primary school and during the lesson this week one of the kids asked me (they know I am a science geek) “What colour is the sun”. I said that Dr Karl says it is white. Bang! Big discussion on whether it is white, yellow or orange. One kid said that hydrogen burns orange (I looked it up when I got home, apparently it has a weak orange flame). Is hydrogen actually “burning” in the sun though? Isn’t it energy from fusion? I could look it up but any guidance appreciated.

The exciting bit was when I threw a figurative grenade into the discussion by posing the question “OK, what colour is an orange in the dark”? Hoo boy! What fun!
Orange! Black! Grey! No colour!

Good times.
(these kids are year 5 and 6)

in practical terms the sun is yellow

yellow is the predominant part of the visible spectrum – half of the energy is visible half of it invisible to us

our eyes have developed to pick up yellow because of this

and before you complain

colour is a human construct and our eyes and brains have developed important frequencies of light that aid survival

Mr Dutton, first question … how can a person be an “arrival”?

in the same way that an orange in the dark is still orange, we can see the colour with our mind with the absence of reflected light

wookiemeister said:

podzol said:

Hi, I am a voluntary Ethics teacher at my local primary school and during the lesson this week one of the kids asked me (they know I am a science geek) “What colour is the sun”. I said that Dr Karl says it is white. Bang! Big discussion on whether it is white, yellow or orange. One kid said that hydrogen burns orange (I looked it up when I got home, apparently it has a weak orange flame). Is hydrogen actually “burning” in the sun though? Isn’t it energy from fusion? I could look it up but any guidance appreciated.

The exciting bit was when I threw a figurative grenade into the discussion by posing the question “OK, what colour is an orange in the dark”? Hoo boy! What fun!
Orange! Black! Grey! No colour!

Good times.
(these kids are year 5 and 6)

in practical terms the sun is yellow

yellow is the predominant part of the visible spectrum – half of the energy is visible half of it invisible to us

our eyes have developed to pick up yellow because of this

Actually, the human retina is most sensitive to a particular green. Sort of grass green. 555nm.

Despite its long history, the answer to the “orange in the dark” question has a simple answer.

It is that the word “colour” has two different meanings, when applied to an object.

Sometimes it refers to the light that is emitted or reflected from the object (so it is a property of the light), and sometimes it refers to the light that would be reflected if the object was illuminated with “white” light (so it is a property of the object).

Unfortunately it is not always clear which meaning is intended, but clearly both are perfectly reasonable interpretations, so we have to judge from the context or ask.

I wonder if there are languages where these two meanings of colour have different words.

that it’s IR in the dark is the safest answer, saves all the whatever.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/03/stunned-farmer-finds-flock-sheep-home-thanks-overzealous-sheepdog/

transition said:

that it’s IR in the dark is the safest answer, saves all the whatever.

No, insisting that there is only one correct or one best answer is exactly what causes the whatever.

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

that it’s IR in the dark is the safest answer, saves all the whatever.

No, insisting that there is only one correct or one best answer is exactly what causes the whatever.

well, there is the point it is IR in the dark

transition said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

that it’s IR in the dark is the safest answer, saves all the whatever.

No, insisting that there is only one correct or one best answer is exactly what causes the whatever.

well, there is the point it is IR in the dark

Which is why that answer is just as good as the other one.

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

No, insisting that there is only one correct or one best answer is exactly what causes the whatever.

well, there is the point it is IR in the dark

Which is why that answer is just as good as the other one.

it’s a dumb question, that’s persisted way past its usefulness.

why would it emit IR if it has no internal heat source and is at the same temp as the surroundings?

ChrispenEvan said:

why would it emit IR if it has no internal heat source and is at the same temp as the surroundings?

Might be a clockwork one.

ChrispenEvan said:

why would it emit IR if it has no internal heat source and is at the same temp as the surroundings?

there’s that point

ChrispenEvan said:

why would it emit IR if it has no internal heat source and is at the same temp as the surroundings?

Because everything with a temperature greater than that of party_pants emits em radiation.

The Rev Dodgson said:

ChrispenEvan said:

why would it emit IR if it has no internal heat source and is at the same temp as the surroundings?

Because everything with a temperature greater than that of party_pants emits em radiation.

maybe, but is that emission in the IR thermal band?

ChrispenEvan said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

ChrispenEvan said:

why would it emit IR if it has no internal heat source and is at the same temp as the surroundings?

Because everything with a temperature greater than that of party_pants emits em radiation.

maybe, but is that emission in the IR thermal band?

Yes.

The Rev Dodgson said:

ChrispenEvan said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Because everything with a temperature greater than that of party_pants emits em radiation.

maybe, but is that emission in the IR thermal band?

Yes.

sooooo to see it then it must be warmer than the surrounding air. or is it in a vacuum?

ChrispenEvan said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

ChrispenEvan said:

maybe, but is that emission in the IR thermal band?

Yes.

sooooo to see it then it must be warmer than the surrounding air. or is it in a vacuum?

??

You can’t see IR anyway, but the temperature of the surrounding air (if any) does not affect the radiation from the orange.

The Rev Dodgson said:

ChrispenEvan said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Yes.

sooooo to see it then it must be warmer than the surrounding air. or is it in a vacuum?

??

You can’t see IR anyway, but the temperature of the surrounding air (if any) does not affect the radiation from the orange.

but if it is the same temp then you wont see the orange.

the proposition is not of whether you can see the object (orange fruit in this example) to differentiate it from whatever else, it’s rather quite simply what colour is it in the dark.

and the answer is IR

transition said:

the proposition is not of whether you can see the object (orange fruit in this example) to differentiate it from whatever else, it’s rather quite simply what colour is it in the dark.

and the answer is IR

if you can’t “see” it how can you measure it?

:-)

ChrispenEvan said:

transition said:

the proposition is not of whether you can see the object (orange fruit in this example) to differentiate it from whatever else, it’s rather quite simply what colour is it in the dark.

and the answer is IR

if you can’t “see” it how can you measure it?

:-)

also IR isn’t a colour, as we don’t have receptors for it.

ChrispenEvan said:

transition said:

the proposition is not of whether you can see the object (orange fruit in this example) to differentiate it from whatever else, it’s rather quite simply what colour is it in the dark.

and the answer is IR

if you can’t “see” it how can you measure it?

:-)

i’m developing an appreciation of stealth oranges

ChrispenEvan said:

ChrispenEvan said:

transition said:

the proposition is not of whether you can see the object (orange fruit in this example) to differentiate it from whatever else, it’s rather quite simply what colour is it in the dark.

and the answer is IR

if you can’t “see” it how can you measure it?

:-)

also IR isn’t a colour, as we don’t have receptors for it.

yes that’s thinking point, that goes to the heart of it.

mollwollfumble said:

podzol said:

Hi, I am a voluntary Ethics teacher at my local primary school and during the lesson this week one of the kids asked me (they know I am a science geek) “What colour is the sun”. I said that Dr Karl says it is white. Bang! Big discussion on whether it is white, yellow or orange. One kid said that hydrogen burns orange (I looked it up when I got home, apparently it has a weak orange flame). Is hydrogen actually “burning” in the sun though? Isn’t it energy from fusion? I could look it up but any guidance appreciated.

The exciting bit was when I threw a figurative grenade into the discussion by posing the question “OK, what colour is an orange in the dark”? Hoo boy! What fun!
Orange! Black! Grey! No colour!

Good times.
(these kids are year 5 and 6)

Looks better than any conversation I’ve had in decades, forumites excepted of course. I hope you don’t leave out Bentham, Moore and unitarians in your ethics. Do you think I should try to become a voluntary Ethics teacher?

> Is hydrogen actually “burning” in the sun though?

The colour doesn’t depend on whether the light is from chemical or nuclear sources, but it does depend on temperature. As the temperature increases the colour goes from yellow to white to blue.

Or to put it another way, there are two separate parts to the colour – the colour from the spectral lines, of hydrogen in this case. And the colour from the continuous part of the spectrum, the blackbody radiation. As the temperature increases the proportion due to blackbody radiation increases.

Thanks for the answers and great discussion.

Mollwollfumble: are you in NSW? If so, you should definitely become an ethics teacher! Ethics is now an option during the scripture half hour. I love the critical thinking component of the subject and through collaborative discussion many ethical dilemmas are often not simply black and white. There is a strict syllabus volunteer teachers must follow and a two day training course.

https://primaryethics.com.au/