Do animals think rationally?

Previous studies have shown that animals can remember specific events, use tools and solve problems. But exactly what that means remains a matter of scientific dispute. Now one researcher suggests the evidence shows a wide range of animal species exhibit so-called ‘executive control’ when it comes to making decisions, consciously considering their goals and ways to satisfy those goals before acting.

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take out the word rational, so elevated by humans, drop the idea that an organic creature is necessarily going to maximize rationality.

millions of years of evolution’s not going to lend much to the evolution of stupid.

everything conforms to the laws of physics, so you know there are lots of things that sorta universally make sense.

even when mechanisms are involved, it extends to them.

there’s nothing especially rational about humans

transition said:

everything conforms to the laws of physics, so you know there are lots of things that sorta universally make sense.

even when mechanisms are involved, it extends to them.

there’s nothing especially rational about humans

I think we pump ourselves up too much.

transition said:

take out the word rational, so elevated by humans, drop the idea that an organic creature is necessarily going to maximize rationality.

millions of years of evolution’s not going to lend much to the evolution of stupid.

I think animals make what appears to us as rational decision making to aid their survival.

Tau.Neutrino said:

transition said:

take out the word rational, so elevated by humans, drop the idea that an organic creature is necessarily going to maximize rationality.

millions of years of evolution’s not going to lend much to the evolution of stupid.

I think animals make what appears to us as rational decision making to aid their survival.

Food, sex, any threats around decisions .

roughbarked said:

transition said:

everything conforms to the laws of physics, so you know there are lots of things that sorta universally make sense.

even when mechanisms are involved, it extends to them.

there’s nothing especially rational about humans

I think we pump ourselves up too much.

I think we deflate ourselves too much.

Other animals too.

The Rev Dodgson said:

roughbarked said:

transition said:

everything conforms to the laws of physics, so you know there are lots of things that sorta universally make sense.

even when mechanisms are involved, it extends to them.

there’s nothing especially rational about humans

I think we pump ourselves up too much.

I think we deflate ourselves too much.

Other animals too.

Like Cats

The Rev Dodgson said:

roughbarked said:

transition said:

everything conforms to the laws of physics, so you know there are lots of things that sorta universally make sense.

even when mechanisms are involved, it extends to them.

there’s nothing especially rational about humans

I think we pump ourselves up too much.

I think we deflate ourselves too much.

Other animals too.

:) there are always two sides to the coin, yes.

roughbarked said:

transition said:

everything conforms to the laws of physics, so you know there are lots of things that sorta universally make sense.

even when mechanisms are involved, it extends to them.

there’s nothing especially rational about humans

I think we pump ourselves up too much.

who’s we, oh you’re continuing on with the generalization, as you saw it, I see.

well, you gotta have an ego I guess.

trouble with ideas (and words), enthusiasms such, generated by the bulb on the shoulders, is it does a good job of convincing one most of everything is the work of mind/s, more than is.

fortunately there’s a physics out there that does stuff with no input from (human) minds at all. It’d be a sanctuary, a nature, minus the enthusiasm, overshoot that way.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

transition said:

take out the word rational, so elevated by humans, drop the idea that an organic creature is necessarily going to maximize rationality.

millions of years of evolution’s not going to lend much to the evolution of stupid.

I think animals make what appears to us as rational decision making to aid their survival.

Food, sex, any threats around decisions .

Yes, animals obviously behave differently under different conditions.

Those whose actions lead to the survival of their offspring in the greatest number will have the greatest number of offspring.

So evolution will inevitably lead to rational behaviour.

At least so long as the environmental and cultural conditions remain largely unchanged.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

transition said:

take out the word rational, so elevated by humans, drop the idea that an organic creature is necessarily going to maximize rationality.

millions of years of evolution’s not going to lend much to the evolution of stupid.

I think animals make what appears to us as rational decision making to aid their survival.

Food, sex, any threats around decisions .

Yes, animals obviously behave differently under different conditions.

Those whose actions lead to the survival of their offspring in the greatest number will have the greatest number of offspring.

So evolution will inevitably lead to rational behaviour.

At least so long as the environmental and cultural conditions remain largely unchanged.

humans are animals, by the way.

dumber than my pet sheep apparently when trying to distinguish themselves as otherwise.

for the birds

There’s a fair bit about animals v humans and rational thinking and duty of care in the Bible.
I’ll come back and unpack that in more detail when I have more time.

transition said:

humans are animals, by the way.

dumber than my pet sheep apparently when trying to distinguish themselves as otherwise.

Did anyone suggest otherwise?

About humans being animals that is.

I don’t know how intelligent your sheep is, so I can’t comment on that.

Cats and dogs at least think rationally, I’ve seen a couple of documentaries about it, cats are mostly evil trying to take over the world and the dogs have to stop them, all without most humans even being aware of it.

At least all animal predators have a “theory of mind” that builds a mental model of what prey would do in a given situation. This includes mosquitos among predators.

Consider this mind map of intelligence in humans.

Animals sometimes have extra facets to intelligence seldom found in humans, such as “disarm opponent”.
Animals rational thought includes everything on and below the horizontal line except “search a database”.
Cephalopods and mice are famous for using trial and error.

Different animals of the same species think differently, as anyone who has owned two animals will attest. For instance, my first cat had trouble figuring out why we should feed her because she had never heard of “altruism”. At one stage she thought we were keeping her to train our daughter in the techniques of hunting.

mollwollfumble said:

Different animals of the same species think differently, as anyone who has owned two animals will attest. For instance, my first cat had trouble figuring out why we should feed her because she had never heard of “altruism”. At one stage she thought we were keeping her to train our daughter in the techniques of hunting.

Yes I mentioned this the other day, two rabbits brother and sister, raised together, both quite different especially in regards to food preferences.

“A couple of days ago there was some press interest in the UK in a newly-published book of the maps that the Soviet Union had prepared over a 40-year period in readiness to take over the UK. I was particularly struck by a map of southeast England in Polish.

From where I’m sitting (viz. between Dzylynem and Czetem) it’s retrospectively downright frightening how well the place names are rendered in Polish orthography. It’s not just that whoever prepared the transliterations had a perfect grasp of the English schwa, eclipsed H and un-sounded R: more than that, they actually knew how to pronounce Wrotham and West Malling, which I honestly wouldn’t expect anyone outside Kent to know how to do. (Root’m and West Mawling, which our Cold Warrior has correctly rendered as Rutem and Łest-Molyng.) This map would be dead useful for any Polish plumber coming to work in the area today.

BTW, you have to peer quite closely at the map to see this, but a lot of examples of what looks like the letter L are actually the Polish letter Ł, which is pronounced like an English W. Keep that in mind, as otherwise many names are hard to work out.

“

SAUFEND lol

dv said:

“A couple of days ago there was some press interest in the UK in a newly-published book of the maps that the Soviet Union had prepared over a 40-year period in readiness to take over the UK. I was particularly struck by a map of southeast England in Polish.

From where I’m sitting (viz. between Dzylynem and Czetem) it’s retrospectively downright frightening how well the place names are rendered in Polish orthography. It’s not just that whoever prepared the transliterations had a perfect grasp of the English schwa, eclipsed H and un-sounded R: more than that, they actually knew how to pronounce Wrotham and West Malling, which I honestly wouldn’t expect anyone outside Kent to know how to do. (Root’m and West Mawling, which our Cold Warrior has correctly rendered as Rutem and Łest-Molyng.) This map would be dead useful for any Polish plumber coming to work in the area today.

BTW, you have to peer quite closely at the map to see this, but a lot of examples of what looks like the letter L are actually the Polish letter Ł, which is pronounced like an English W. Keep that in mind, as otherwise many names are hard to work out.

“

SAUFEND lol

Can animals decipher the map

mollwollfumble said:

At least all animal predators have a “theory of mind” that builds a mental model of what prey would do in a given situation. This includes mosquitos among predators.

Consider this mind map of intelligence in humans.

Animals sometimes have extra facets to intelligence seldom found in humans, such as “disarm opponent”.
Animals rational thought includes everything on and below the horizontal line except “search a database”.
Cephalopods and mice are famous for using trial and error.

Different animals of the same species think differently, as anyone who has owned two animals will attest. For instance, my first cat had trouble figuring out why we should feed her because she had never heard of “altruism”. At one stage she thought we were keeping her to train our daughter in the techniques of hunting.

Good to see GS coming back from time to time.

I wonder if “sleeping on it” affects non-human animal behaviour to any great extent.

The Rev Dodgson said:

mollwollfumble said:

At least all animal predators have a “theory of mind” that builds a mental model of what prey would do in a given situation. This includes mosquitos among predators.

Consider this mind map of intelligence in humans.

Animals sometimes have extra facets to intelligence seldom found in humans, such as “disarm opponent”.
Animals rational thought includes everything on and below the horizontal line except “search a database”.
Cephalopods and mice are famous for using trial and error.

Different animals of the same species think differently, as anyone who has owned two animals will attest. For instance, my first cat had trouble figuring out why we should feed her because she had never heard of “altruism”. At one stage she thought we were keeping her to train our daughter in the techniques of hunting.

Good to see GS coming back from time to time.

I wonder if “sleeping on it” affects non-human animal behaviour to any great extent.

I imagine tired animals would be at less that optimal performance when hunting or avoiding being hunted

The Rev Dodgson said:

mollwollfumble said:

At least all animal predators have a “theory of mind” that builds a mental model of what prey would do in a given situation. This includes mosquitos among predators.

Consider this mind map of intelligence in humans.

Animals sometimes have extra facets to intelligence seldom found in humans, such as “disarm opponent”.
Animals rational thought includes everything on and below the horizontal line except “search a database”.
Cephalopods and mice are famous for using trial and error.

Different animals of the same species think differently, as anyone who has owned two animals will attest. For instance, my first cat had trouble figuring out why we should feed her because she had never heard of “altruism”. At one stage she thought we were keeping her to train our daughter in the techniques of hunting.

Good to see GS coming back from time to time.

I wonder if “sleeping on it” affects non-human animal behaviour to any great extent.

As in rethinking a situation when gotten a good nights sleep.
Perhaps I shouldn’t chew masters expensive shoes, I’ll sleep on it

Cymek said:

As in rethinking a situation when gotten a good nights sleep.
Perhaps I shouldn’t chew masters expensive shoes, I’ll sleep on it

Yes, or suburban fox works out how to get into the hen coop over a good night’s sleep.

Do humans think rationally…

Chick Flicks and the Straight Female Gaze: Sexual Objectification and Sex Negativity in New Moon, Forgetting Sarah Marshall, Magic Mike, and Fool’s Gold
Perfetti-Oates, Natalie. Gender Forum; Köln Iss. 51, (2015): N_A.

dv said:

Do humans think rationally…

Maybe sometimes.

Depends how you define “rational” of course.

So me thinking the ferret stealing random objects and hiding them is irrational but in actual fact it’s a well thought out plan and she is planning to build something with them (hopefully not a super weapon)

dv said:

Do humans think rationally…

the notion inhabits minds, just as God does

Does anything think rationally? I think not, otherwise we wouldn’t last long in a predator/prey world.

PermeateFree said:

Does anything think rationally? I think not, otherwise we wouldn’t last long in a predator/prey world.

Do animals act stupid?

Tau.Neutrino said:

PermeateFree said:

Does anything think rationally? I think not, otherwise we wouldn’t last long in a predator/prey world.

Do animals act stupid?

No more than people.

Tau.Neutrino said:

PermeateFree said:

Does anything think rationally? I think not, otherwise we wouldn’t last long in a predator/prey world.

Do animals act stupid?

Depends on the animal & the breed
Pheasant Coucals have a death wish as well as being very poor flyers. Corvids are smart.
With dogs Afghans are stupid. Kelpies are smart.

dv said:

Do humans think rationally…

Ever tried arguing rationally with a god botherer,anti vaxer,right to lifer, etc?

gaghalfrunt said:

dv said:

Do humans think rationally…

Ever tried arguing rationally with a god botherer,anti vaxer,right to lifer, etc?

Rationally, yes. Successfully, no.