The only essential nutrient that humans cannot obtain from plants is B12.

We don’t need much of it: only 2 micrograms a day. But we definitely do need it, as it is required for the creation of RNA, DNA and neurotransmitters. A complete lack of B12 will lead to permanent damage to the brain and nervous system, and other organ failures. Even a low intake will cause severe problems will several physical systems.

No multicellular critter (plant, animal, fungus) can create B12. To our knowledge, B12 is only made by certain kinds of bacteria and archaea.

It is common for mammals to have B12-making bacteria in their intestines.

Some animals, such as cows, have a digestive system that allows this B12 to be used internally. They are “foregut fermenters”.

Some animals, such as humans and other primates, rodents and rabbits, do not. We are “hindgut fermenters”: our bacteria live in the colon, too far from the small intestine which would be able to actually deal with the B12.

So, if you’re a foregut fermenter, you’re fine.

If you’re hindgut fermenter, you have a few options.

Firstly, you can eat the flesh of foregut fermenters, and carnivores often do this.

Secondly, you can drink the milk of foregut fermenters. This option of domesticating an animal for this purpose only arose recently due to cultural and technological advancement.

Thirdly, you can eat the faeces of anything. Some animals eat a bit of their own faeces directly (rabbits). Some animals (such as chimps) eat small animals more or less whole and get a bit of faeces that way.

Fourthly, you can eat the eggs, milk, flesh of any animal using any of the above methods.

Fifthly, you can use bacterial cultures in a laboratory to produce B12 directly, and then eat that in a tablet or eat food that has been fortified with it. This too is a fairly recent technological phenomenon.

Vegans object to eating flesh, milk and eggs, and some have philosophical objections to taking supplements. On the other hand, most people don’t want to eat faeces.

It seems to me that there is a sixth option: use a long colonoscopic device to push a small amount of a person’s faeces from the colon past the ileum into the small intestine. Given the minute quantity of B12 required, a very small amount of faeces would be needed. Would this be viable? Would it cause any problems?

dv said:

The only essential nutrient that humans cannot obtain from plants is B12.

We don’t need much of it: only 2 micrograms a day. But we definitely do need it, as it is required for the creation of RNA, DNA and neurotransmitters. A complete lack of B12 will lead to permanent damage to the brain and nervous system, and other organ failures. Even a low intake will cause severe problems will several physical systems.

No multicellular critter (plant, animal, fungus) can create B12. To our knowledge, B12 is only made by certain kinds of bacteria and archaea.

It is common for mammals to have B12-making bacteria in their intestines.

Some animals, such as cows, have a digestive system that allows this B12 to be used internally. They are “foregut fermenters”.

Some animals, such as humans and other primates, rodents and rabbits, do not. We are “hindgut fermenters”: our bacteria live in the colon, too far from the small intestine which would be able to actually deal with the B12.

So, if you’re a foregut fermenter, you’re fine.

If you’re hindgut fermenter, you have a few options.

Firstly, you can eat the flesh of foregut fermenters, and carnivores often do this.

Secondly, you can drink the milk of foregut fermenters. This option of domesticating an animal for this purpose only arose recently due to cultural and technological advancement.

Thirdly, you can eat the faeces of anything. Some animals eat a bit of their own faeces directly (rabbits). Some animals (such as chimps) eat small animals more or less whole and get a bit of faeces that way.

Fourthly, you can eat the eggs, milk, flesh of any animal using any of the above methods.

Fifthly, you can use bacterial cultures in a laboratory to produce B12 directly, and then eat that in a tablet or eat food that has been fortified with it. This too is a fairly recent technological phenomenon.

Vegans object to eating flesh, milk and eggs, and some have philosophical objections to taking supplements. On the other hand, most people don’t want to eat faeces.

It seems to me that there is a sixth option: use a long colonoscopic device to push a small amount of a person’s faeces from the colon past the ileum into the small intestine. Given the minute quantity of B12 required, a very small amount of faeces would be needed. Would this be viable? Would it cause any problems?

Might be a problem getting past the colon, especially doing it yourself.

Mushrooms, seaweeds.

Thinking back to my vegetarian days (ovo-lacto vegetarian)

Was it an absorption thing? Or a combination problem?

No time to read this..
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4042564/

Talk about another way of saying put a rod up your….;).

Vegemite on wholegrain toast might be a more palatable option.

Although some people lack the gut and colon flora for digestion and there is a treatment where by they put another persons faeces into the colon to rectify some bowels issues with success apparently.

Eat shit and live.

Have been a vego for forty years. It seems that I’m living proof that dv doiesn’t always know everything.

dv said:

It seems to me that there is a sixth option: use a long colonoscopic device to push a small amount of a person’s faeces from the colon past the ileum into the small intestine. Given the minute quantity of B12 required, a very small amount of faeces would be needed. Would this be viable? Would it cause any problems?

“…serious complications can follow colonoscopy including death, hospitalization, perforation, major bleeding, diverticulitis, cardiovascular events, and/or serious abdominal pain.”

Apart from that, to ‘see’ where you’re going with a scope, you’d need the person to be relatively empty of shit, so probably best to bring some you prepared earlier.

poikilotherm said:

dv said:

It seems to me that there is a sixth option: use a long colonoscopic device to push a small amount of a person’s faeces from the colon past the ileum into the small intestine. Given the minute quantity of B12 required, a very small amount of faeces would be needed. Would this be viable? Would it cause any problems?

“…serious complications can follow colonoscopy including death, hospitalization, perforation, major bleeding, diverticulitis, cardiovascular events, and/or serious abdominal pain.”

Apart from that, to ‘see’ where you’re going with a scope, you’d need the person to be relatively empty of shit, so probably best to bring some you prepared earlier.

picolax.

Vegemite is made from vegetables. The B12 added?

“Vegans object to eating flesh, milk and eggs, and some have philosophical objections to taking supplements.”

Do they?

What is the philosophical basis of this objection?

“Vegans object to eating flesh, milk and eggs, and some have philosophical objections to taking supplements.”

Do they?

What is the philosophical basis of this objection?

The Rev Dodgson said:

“Vegans object to eating flesh, milk and eggs, and some have philosophical objections to taking supplements.”

Do they?

What is the philosophical basis of this objection?

Bing doesn’t provide any information on this.

Google might, but I have a philosophical objection to Googling.

The Rev Dodgson said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

“Vegans object to eating flesh, milk and eggs, and some have philosophical objections to taking supplements.”

Do they?

What is the philosophical basis of this objection?

Bing doesn’t provide any information on this.

Google might, but I have a philosophical objection to Googling.

I feel the same.

> No multicellular critter (plant, animal, fungus) can create B12. To our knowledge, B12 is only made by certain kinds of bacteria and archaea.

Fungi?

Certainly single celled fungi produce B12. Yeasts.

Aren’t mushrooms also a good source of B12? And a few plants?

mollwollfumble said:

> No multicellular critter (plant, animal, fungus) can create B12. To our knowledge, B12 is only made by certain kinds of bacteria and archaea.

Fungi?

Certainly single celled fungi produce B12. Yeasts.

Aren’t mushrooms also a good source of B12? And a few plants?

We could GE/GM a common food and get it that way perhaps

“ Fungi and yeasts do not appear to synthesize vitamin B12, although it may be present in some edible fungi due to vitamin B12 absorption from the fungi’s substrate (see Bito) and an excellent, exhaustive discussion on whether plant foods and soil contamination of food can meet vitamin B12 requirements from Norris.”

Ah, so vegetarians can get sufficient B12 from soil contamination if they’re lucky. Remember not to wash your veges.

mollwollfumble said:

> No multicellular critter (plant, animal, fungus) can create B12. To our knowledge, B12 is only made by certain kinds of bacteria and archaea.

Fungi?

Certainly single celled fungi produce B12. Yeasts.

Aren’t mushrooms also a good source of B12? And a few plants?

Mushrooms are a minor source of B12, due to the bacteria some of them host. (IIRC)

Tempeh

poikilotherm said:

Tempeh

That the name of that yummy stuff!

Michael V said:

mollwollfumble said:

> No multicellular critter (plant, animal, fungus) can create B12. To our knowledge, B12 is only made by certain kinds of bacteria and archaea.

Fungi?

Certainly single celled fungi produce B12. Yeasts.

Aren’t mushrooms also a good source of B12? And a few plants?

Mushrooms are a minor source of B12, due to the bacteria some of them host. (IIRC)

Basically because of their contamination by manure…

Note that yeast doesn’t produce B12, though yeast (like other fungus) can host bacteria that produce B12.

Vitamin B12-Containing Plant Food Sources for Vegetarians

Fumio Watanabe,* Yukinori Yabuta, Tomohiro Bito, and Fei Teng

Nutrients. 2014 May; 6(5): 1861–1873.

Published online 2014 May 5. doi: 10.3390/nu6051861

This paper recommends vegans eat purple laver and green laver (seaweeds) for B12. Green laver is readily available as nori – Japanese seaweed used for wrapping sushi. Interestingly, the wiki page on laver does not show the B12 content of this seaweed indicated in this paper.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4042564/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laver_(seaweed)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porphyra

On Southern Cross Radio they were talking with a recovering vegan a couple of days ago on their drive time segment.
She was excited about the whole new culinary world she was moving into but doctors had told her it had to be baby steps.

Most animals and plants are unable to produce vitamin B12 directly. The vitamin is produced naturally by bacteria, and it is also produced as a byproduct of activated charcoal production (in the form of cyanocobalamin). Many animals have bacteria in their digestive systems that produce B12, and some algae, such as chlorella, receive B12 from a symbiotic relationship with bacteria. However, humans generally do not have these bacteria and therefore need to consume it from other sources.

The scientific name for vitamin B12 is cobalamin, which is produced by bacteria. There are several forms of the vitamin, including hydroxocobalamin, methylcobalamin and cyanocobalamin, the latter of which is often used as a supplement.

Foods with Vitamin B12

The best sources of vitamin B12 are from animal products. As a result, many vegans and vegetarians may not get enough B12 in their diets.

The most common significant sources of vitamin B12 include:

Fish and shellfish Meat, poultry and eggs Milk and dairy products

Some research how shown that algae like chlorella and spirulina may be good sources of B12; however, additional studies are needed to verify early results.
B12 Fortification and Supplementation

Because there are so few food sources of vitamin B12, other foods may be fortified with the vitamin. Examples of frequently fortified foods include:

Breakfast cereals Soy products Energy bars Nutritional yeasts Energy drinks and shots

B12 also can be taken as a supplement in pill form, as well as injections and patches directly applied to the skin. These methods may be reserved for cases where the digestive system is not functioning properly or when someone develops a severe vitamin B12 deficiency.
Vitamin B12 Nutrition Information

Vitamin B12 is an essential nutrient that helps both the nervous system and production of healthy blood cells.

As with other B vitamins, B12 is water-soluble, which means it cannot be stored by the body. It must be ingested on a regular basis to avoid deficiency.

Vitamin B12 Deficiency

Because of the role vitamin B12 plays in the function of nerves and memory, low levels of the vitamin in the blood can lead to a number of detrimental effects, including:

Decreased thinking abilities Personality shifts including depression, irritability and psychosis Poor reflexes or diminished muscle response and functionality Inflammation of the tongue and reduced taste sense Lower fertility

In addition to not eating enough B12-rich foods, deficiency of vitamin B12 can be caused by one or more of the following factors:

Pernicious anemia: This form of megaloblastic anemia is an autoimmune condition that destroys gastric parietal cells, which produce a protein (intrinsic factor) that helps the body absorb vitamin B12. If enough parietal cells are killed, the body will be unable to take in an adequate supply of the vitamin, ultimately leading to a deficiency. Pernicious anemia is the most common cause of B12 deficiency in adults.

Pancreatitis: The pancreas produces a number of gastric enzymes that help to break down macronutrients like carbohydrates and proteins. Chronic inflammation of the pancreas can lead to an inability to process food appropriately – including the meat and dairy sources that provide the largest supply of vitamin B12 to the body.

Parasites: Intestinal parasites can steal much-needed nutrients from the host’s body, including essential vitamins like B12.

Other, less common conditions and diseases may also lead to vitamin B12 deficiency.
Medical Uses of Vitamin B12

The primary medical use of vitamin B12 is to combat deficiency as described above. Low-level deficiencies can be treated with a B12 supplement pill or injection.

Other medical uses include:

Cyanide poisoning – Hydroxocobalamin, which binds directly with cyanide ions, is used to treat people who may have been poisoned with cyanide. This use was approved by the FDA in 2006.

Mental function – Higher levels of vitamin B12 may help protect against brain atrophy and may help prevent degenerative mental diseases such as Alzheimer’s.

Since 1974 I haven’t eaten virtually all sources of B12. I was into eating brewers yeast at one period but that was decades ago. Mine must come as accidental extras on my home grown food. I have always used manures and seaweed as fertilisers. I suffer from none of the maladies that a B12 deficiency could give me. No medical practitioner has ever suggested that I need to take supplements. I might have half a dozen eggs per year.

You know, on the information given, this seems like an over reaction. Of course there is only one side given in this article, but it seems flimsy to me.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/nov/29/garrison-keillor-fired-minnesota-public-radio-allegations-improper-behavior

https://www.healthbeckon.com/vitamin-b12-rich-foods/

From this list though they picture almonds, they mention nothing about nuts.

I’d say if anything, I’d get my B12 from cheeses.

roughbarked said:

https://www.healthbeckon.com/vitamin-b12-rich-foods/

From this list though they picture almonds, they mention nothing about nuts.

I’d say if anything, I’d get my B12 from cheeses.

Dairy and eggs are a fine source of B12.

Sorry

roughbarked said:

https://www.healthbeckon.com/vitamin-b12-rich-foods/

From this list though they picture almonds, they mention nothing about nuts.

I’d say if anything, I’d get my B12 from cheeses.

Yes. This. B12 from cheeses.

:)

Peak Warming Man said:

On Southern Cross Radio they were talking with a recovering vegan a couple of days ago on their drive time segment.
She was excited about the whole new culinary world she was moving into but doctors had told her it had to be baby steps.

Veganism (as distinct from vegetarianism) is linked with depression and suicide.

dv said:

roughbarked said:

https://www.healthbeckon.com/vitamin-b12-rich-foods/

From this list though they picture almonds, they mention nothing about nuts.

I’d say if anything, I’d get my B12 from cheeses.

Dairy and eggs are a fine source of B12.

I do eat a fair amount of cheeses. I definitely don’t eat foods fortified with B12 other than Vegemite. I eat no breakfast cereals other than a handful of rolled oats now and again. Hate Soya milk.

roughbarked said:

dv said:

roughbarked said:

https://www.healthbeckon.com/vitamin-b12-rich-foods/

From this list though they picture almonds, they mention nothing about nuts.

I’d say if anything, I’d get my B12 from cheeses.

Dairy and eggs are a fine source of B12.

I do eat a fair amount of cheeses. I definitely don’t eat foods fortified with B12 other than Vegemite. I eat no breakfast cereals other than a handful of rolled oats now and again. Hate Soya milk.

Perhaps you are in denial :)

I have a dash of milk in coffee but otherwise can’t stand stuff made from milk, other than cheese.

Cymek said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

Dairy and eggs are a fine source of B12.

I do eat a fair amount of cheeses. I definitely don’t eat foods fortified with B12 other than Vegemite. I eat no breakfast cereals other than a handful of rolled oats now and again. Hate Soya milk.

Perhaps you are in denial :)

No I’m here on the banks of the Murrumbidgee.

roughbarked said:

dv said:

roughbarked said:

https://www.healthbeckon.com/vitamin-b12-rich-foods/

From this list though they picture almonds, they mention nothing about nuts.

I’d say if anything, I’d get my B12 from cheeses.

Dairy and eggs are a fine source of B12.

I do eat a fair amount of cheeses. I definitely don’t eat foods fortified with B12 other than Vegemite. I eat no breakfast cereals other than a handful of rolled oats now and again. Hate Soya milk.

Then you should be right as rain…

The amount of B12 you need per day really is miniscule. In solid crystalline form, the daily requirement would make a spec about 10 microns wide. You’d barely be able to see it.

dv said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

Dairy and eggs are a fine source of B12.

I do eat a fair amount of cheeses. I definitely don’t eat foods fortified with B12 other than Vegemite. I eat no breakfast cereals other than a handful of rolled oats now and again. Hate Soya milk.

Then you should be right as rain…

The amount of B12 you need per day really is miniscule. In solid crystalline form, the daily requirement would make a spec about 10 microns wide. You’d barely be able to see it.

And cheses have plenty of it.

roughbarked said:

Cymek said:

roughbarked said:

Perhaps you are in denial :)

No I’m here on the banks of the Murrumbidgee.

…and I’m “up the creek…” O-8=

I have no colon!
(running orf to the nearest pharmacy)

Ogmog said:

roughbarked said:

Cymek said:

roughbarked said:

Perhaps you are in denial :)

No I’m here on the banks of the Murrumbidgee.

…and I’m “up the creek…” O-8=

I have no colon!
(running orf to the nearest pharmacy)

In FACT,
I don’t even have a semi-colon.

Ogmog said:

Ogmog said:

roughbarked said:

No I’m here on the banks of the Murrumbidgee.

…and I’m “up the creek…” O-8=

I have no colon!
(running orf to the nearest pharmacy)

In FACT,
I don’t even have a semi-colon.

here you go. : ;

The ABC site has now given 47 seats to the ALP but the Electoral Commission has gone quiet.

dv said:

The ABC site has now given 47 seats to the ALP but the Electoral Commission has gone quiet.

the AEC’s probably been out in the sun too much

One thing I’ve learned while investigating this is that not eating any animals at is a very rare trait among primates. Some eat adult insects, spiders, centipedes, milipedes. Others eat only larva, lizards, snakes, worms, birds, eggs. There are those that snails or crabs, and baboons eat quite large mammals. But almost all of them get some of their nutrition from animals.

I’ve highlighted the exceptions below in red.

About half the species of lemur in Madagascar are strict herbivores.
The lutungs and langurs of east Asia are mostly strict herbivores as are a handful of related Asian monkeys in the “Odd nosed group” (proboscis monkey, snub nosed monkey).
Of all the New World monkeys, only the muriqui are strict herbivores.
The only strictly herbivorous African primates are the colobus monkeys.

It’s not a typical primate trait.

direct link

dv said:

One thing I’ve learned while investigating this is that not eating any animals at is a very rare trait among primates. Some eat adult insects, spiders, centipedes, milipedes. Others eat only larva, lizards, snakes, worms, birds, eggs. There are those that snails or crabs, and baboons eat quite large mammals. But almost all of them get some of their nutrition from animals.

I’ve highlighted the exceptions below in red.

About half the species of lemur in Madagascar are strict herbivores.
The lutungs and langurs of east Asia are mostly strict herbivores as are a handful of related Asian monkeys in the “Odd nosed group” (proboscis monkey, snub nosed monkey).
Of all the New World monkeys, only the muriqui are strict herbivores.
The only strictly herbivorous African primates are the colobus monkeys.

It’s not a typical primate trait.

direct link

An increasing degree of meat eating is very probably associated with the reduction of the hominin jaw and expansion of the cranium.

There is a great deal of difference between sampling a few grasshoppers during a locust plague and knocking down the world’s trees to fatten cows.

Ogmog said:

Ogmog said:

roughbarked said:

No I’m here on the banks of the Murrumbidgee.

…and I’m “up the creek…” O-8=

I have no colon!
(running orf to the nearest pharmacy)

In FACT,
I don’t even have a semi-colon.

No Shit!

What’s most disturbing,
even though the operation was done at a University Hospital (UMDNJ)
University of Medicine & Dentistry by a Teaching Professor/ Doctor
and seen my several Nutritionists since, NOT ONE OF THEM
EVER Suggested that I SUPPLIMENT MY DIET as lately
as last month (4 years post operative) even though I
was showing signs of suicidal depression, marked
lack of energy, and loss of short-term memory.

WTF? :-/

btw, I just took my first dose of Time-Released Vitamin B12
…letz c wot happens…

of

You should be very careful taking vitamin B12

It has cyanide in it

Cyanide is bad

wookiemeister said:

You should be very careful taking vitamin B12

It has cyanide in it

Cyanide is bad

Apples have cyanide in them, too.

Beware of apples.

captain_spalding said:

wookiemeister said:

You should be very careful taking vitamin B12

It has cyanide in it

Cyanide is bad

Apples have cyanide in them, too.

Beware of apples.

Beware the ides of bananas

But seriously

B12 shouldnt be taken by anyone because its got cyanide in it

wookiemeister said:

You should be very careful taking vitamin B12

It has cyanide in it

Cyanide is bad

B12 does not have cyanide in it…

wookiemeister said:

captain_spalding said:

wookiemeister said:

You should be very careful taking vitamin B12

It has cyanide in it

Cyanide is bad

Apples have cyanide in them, too.

Beware of apples.

Beware the ides of bananas

But seriously

B12 shouldnt be taken by anyone because its got cyanide in it

B12 is in your milk and eggs, wookie.

dv said:

wookiemeister said:

captain_spalding said:

Apples have cyanide in them, too.

Beware of apples.

Beware the ides of bananas

But seriously

B12 shouldnt be taken by anyone because its got cyanide in it

B12 is in your milk and eggs, wookie.

Vitamin B12 is actually used in treating cyanide poisoning.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8440119

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroxocobalamin

“Hydroxocobalamin has also been used in the treatment of cyanide poisoning. Cyanide displaces the hydroxo ligand forming a stable cyanocobalamin.”

dv said:

wookiemeister said:

captain_spalding said:

Apples have cyanide in them, too.

Beware of apples.

Beware the ides of bananas

But seriously

B12 shouldnt be taken by anyone because its got cyanide in it

B12 is in your milk and eggs, wookie.

And vitamin B17

captain_spalding said:

dv said:

wookiemeister said:

Beware the ides of bananas

But seriously

B12 shouldnt be taken by anyone because its got cyanide in it

B12 is in your milk and eggs, wookie.

Vitamin B12 is actually used in treating cyanide poisoning.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8440119

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroxocobalamin

“Hydroxocobalamin has also been used in the treatment of cyanide poisoning. Cyanide displaces the hydroxo ligand forming a stable cyanocobalamin.”

I’m leading you up the garden path

dv said:

wookiemeister said:

You should be very careful taking vitamin B12

It has cyanide in it

Cyanide is bad

B12 does not have cyanide in it…

http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/99-vitamin-b12-market-contains-cyanide

wookiemeister said:

dv said:

wookiemeister said:

Beware the ides of bananas

But seriously

B12 shouldnt be taken by anyone because its got cyanide in it

B12 is in your milk and eggs, wookie.

And vitamin B17

There’s no vitamin B17. Some cranks were trying to market amygdalin under that name but it has been shown not to be effective for any treatment.

wookiemeister said:

dv said:

wookiemeister said:

You should be very careful taking vitamin B12

It has cyanide in it

Cyanide is bad

B12 does not have cyanide in it…

http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/99-vitamin-b12-market-contains-cyanide

no

dv said:

wookiemeister said:

captain_spalding said:

Apples have cyanide in them, too.

Beware of apples.

Beware the ides of bananas

But seriously

B12 shouldnt be taken by anyone because its got cyanide in it

B12 is in your milk and eggs, wookie.

Plus B1 and B2 are in pyjamas.

dv said:

wookiemeister said:

dv said:

B12 is in your milk and eggs, wookie.

And vitamin B17

There’s no vitamin B17. Some cranks were trying to market amygdalin under that name but it has been shown not to be effective for any treatment.

From what little i’ve seen it seems to work

wookiemeister said:

I’m leading you up the garden path

Well, there’s good value in warnings to not overdose on any vitamin or supplement.

A classic case is Douglas Mawson, trying to find his way back to base after his companions had perished.

They’d been eating the husky dogs that they’d been forced to kill, and they thought that the dogs’ livers would be very nutritious.

Unfortunately, husky livers are just jam-packed full of vitamin A, and they all got A-vitaminosis. Mawson went practically blind, had terrible sores all over, and the skin from the soles of his feet came off, remaining in his sock when he took them off.

wookiemeister said:

dv said:

wookiemeister said:

And vitamin B17

There’s no vitamin B17. Some cranks were trying to market amygdalin under that name but it has been shown not to be effective for any treatment.

From what little i’ve seen it seems to work

Tell me about the clinical trials you ran for it involving thousands of people, because that’s what you would need to trump the evidence that it does nothing.

dv said:

wookiemeister said:

dv said:

B12 does not have cyanide in it…

http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/99-vitamin-b12-market-contains-cyanide

no

DV i hope you aren’t arguing against science again, the mods here have warned you are on thin ice.

The cyanocobalamin form of B12 is hardly used outside of the United States.

In any case, it’s very stable, and would pose no risk to anyone who’s not already got lots of cyanide in them e.g. very heavy smokers.

The US does a lot of funny things – your dentist can double as a cosmetic surgeon, if he gets the urge.

As the name implies, cyanocobalamin contains a cyanide molecule. Most people are familiar with cyanide as a poisonous substance. Although the amount of cyanide in a normal B12 supplement is small and from a toxicology point, viewed as insignificant, your body will still need to remove and eliminate this compound.Feb 7, 2004

wookiemeister said:

As the name implies, cyanocobalamin contains a cyanide molecule. Most people are familiar with cyanide as a poisonous substance. Although the amount of cyanide in a normal B12 supplement is small and from a toxicology point, viewed as insignificant, your body will still need to remove and eliminate this compound.Feb 7, 2004

So, just go and get some of the hydroxocobalamin form of B12, and take that instead. You still get your vitamin, and it soaks up the cyanide.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persipan

According to the U.S. Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry the following foods naturally contain cyanide:
almonds.
millet sprouts.
lima beans.
soy.
spinach.
bamboo shoots.
cassava.

wookiemeister said:

According to the U.S. Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry the following foods naturally contain cyanide:
almonds.
millet sprouts.
lima beans.
soy.
spinach.
bamboo shoots.
cassava.

OK, i’m sold. Anything that gives me an excuse to not eat lima beans or spinach has to be true.

Theres poisonous stuff in almost everything we eat

Carrots have MORE of the same poison than in rhubarb leaves