it strikes me that this will be the likely cause of the end of human civilization (as known), it won’t be an asteroid.

is the information age inclining humans toward a greater familiarity with optimal structure (optimizing structure), or is it detaching humans from it.

are humans more and more dealing with the echoes of recursion (living in it), and it passes for useful knowledge, at the expense of structure.

transition said:

it strikes me that this will be the likely cause of the end of human civilization (as known), it won’t be an asteroid.

is the information age inclining humans toward a greater familiarity with optimal structure (optimizing structure), or is it detaching humans from it.

are humans more and more dealing with the echoes of recursion (living in it), and it passes for useful knowledge, at the expense of structure.

Totally agree. detaching.

transition said:

are humans more and more dealing with the echoes of recursion (living in it), and it passes for useful knowledge, at the expense of structure.

I don’t know.

Can you give an example?

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

are humans more and more dealing with the echoes of recursion (living in it), and it passes for useful knowledge, at the expense of structure.

I don’t know.

Can you give an example?

Memes referencing other memes.
Circular series of hyperlinks (eg. involving Wikipedia).
Newspaper articles quoting one another.

mollwollfumble said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

are humans more and more dealing with the echoes of recursion (living in it), and it passes for useful knowledge, at the expense of structure.

I don’t know.

Can you give an example?

Memes referencing other memes.
Circular series of hyperlinks (eg. involving Wikipedia).
Newspaper articles quoting one another.

Ah, OK, the stuff that’s always happened, but now we are more aware of it then.

mollwollfumble said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

are humans more and more dealing with the echoes of recursion (living in it), and it passes for useful knowledge, at the expense of structure.

I don’t know.

Can you give an example?

Memes referencing other memes.
Circular series of hyperlinks (eg. involving Wikipedia).
Newspaper articles quoting one another.

Do people want useful knowledge especially say if its bad news, what passes for news today is mostly distraction and the inane lives of the rich and famous

The Rev Dodgson said:

mollwollfumble said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

I don’t know.

Can you give an example?

Memes referencing other memes.
Circular series of hyperlinks (eg. involving Wikipedia).
Newspaper articles quoting one another.

Ah, OK, the stuff that’s always happened, but now we are more aware of it then.

The more things change they more they stay the same, human nature I imagine

mollwollfumble said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

are humans more and more dealing with the echoes of recursion (living in it), and it passes for useful knowledge, at the expense of structure.

I don’t know.

Can you give an example?

Memes referencing other memes.
Circular series of hyperlinks (eg. involving Wikipedia).
Newspaper articles quoting one another.

they’re good examples, movies too, news, advertizing, but was getting to habits of mind

and the possibility that oneday (on offer now, many have accepted) people will inhabit a space of recursion, live in the echoes of it, while unknown to them be denied structure.

Religion can detach people from Nature. religion can have corrupted views on sex, human rights logic and ethics.

Other things that can detach people from nature are politics, work, family, sport, drugs, music, meditation, sex, movies, games, TV, radio, internet and reading books etc.

transition said:

mollwollfumble said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

I don’t know.

Can you give an example?

Memes referencing other memes.
Circular series of hyperlinks (eg. involving Wikipedia).
Newspaper articles quoting one another.

they’re good examples, movies too, news, advertizing, but was getting to habits of mind

and the possibility that oneday (on offer now, many have accepted) people will inhabit a space of recursion, live in the echoes of it, while unknown to them be denied structure.

But by that definition, it is only in the last 100 years or so that there has been any reduction in the absolute recursion that used to exist in all civilised societies, and there is probably less recursion now than there has ever been.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Religion can detach people from Nature. religion can have corrupted views on sex, human rights logic and ethics.

Other things that can detach people from nature are politics, work, family, sport, drugs, music, meditation, sex, movies, games, TV, radio, internet and reading books etc.

Other things that can detach people from nature are politics, work, family, sport, drugs, music, meditation, sex, movies, games, TV, radio, internet, reading books, schools, living in suburbs, and supermarkets etc.

Fixed

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

mollwollfumble said:

Memes referencing other memes.
Circular series of hyperlinks (eg. involving Wikipedia).
Newspaper articles quoting one another.

they’re good examples, movies too, news, advertizing, but was getting to habits of mind

and the possibility that oneday (on offer now, many have accepted) people will inhabit a space of recursion, live in the echoes of it, while unknown to them be denied structure.

But by that definition, it is only in the last 100 years or so that there has been any reduction in the absolute recursion that used to exist in all civilised societies, and there is probably less recursion now than there has ever been.

yeah, well, i’m thinking about it, you may be right.

I dunno.

worth a thinkies, quite possibly not, but’ll do’t anyway.

The collective doesn’t progress the human condition.
It’s individuals who question the received wisdom.
People like Copernicus who dared question the flat earth scientific consensus of the time.

transition said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

they’re good examples, movies too, news, advertizing, but was getting to habits of mind

and the possibility that oneday (on offer now, many have accepted) people will inhabit a space of recursion, live in the echoes of it, while unknown to them be denied structure.

But by that definition, it is only in the last 100 years or so that there has been any reduction in the absolute recursion that used to exist in all civilised societies, and there is probably less recursion now than there has ever been.

yeah, well, i’m thinking about it, you may be right.

I dunno.

worth a thinkies, quite possibly not, but’ll do’t anyway.

I’d agree with that :)

Personally I think it is highly unlikely. Most people if they bother to check facts at all, will only do so once or twice and usually only then on what they personally believe (people are reluctant to change their acquired ideology of life). However, with the multitude of information at their fingertips, they will form strong opinions that may not be correct.

The big problem with more generated individuals, is they are difficult to influence or control for the good of the community, therefore you will have vast numbers of people, with extremely dangerous ideas that are detrimental to everyone else. Already what politicians could get away with a generation ago, now are discovered in hours or days and the politicians discredited. This transfers power to the groups, which like ISIS can be extremely dangerous and destructive. I would say you are going to get greater human diversity of which, opinion and ideology will take greater precedence than science and rational thought.

i’m troubled by the déjà vu i’m not experiencing.

there was a time, before the electric light – and TV etc are fancy lights really – when the end of the day came with dwindling light, there was twilight, and colour turned to silhouettes, a time before the question of what colour is an orange in the dark.

a time too when children played with mirrors, saw recursion, and soon got rightly bored with it.

then came technology.

possibly, being inclined to perceive and conceive the world, of experience, in hyper-relative terms, comparison, constant calibration this way, inhabiting it, updating so, this might invite a churn of recursion.