Date: 1/01/2018 23:06:40
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1168155
Subject: Beyond Electricity

Beyond Electricity.

Thoughts?

What will replace the current electricity system we have?

Some kind of pure superconducting plasma?

Something less ambitious?

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Date: 1/01/2018 23:10:06
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1168157
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

Meet the microgrid, the technology poised to transform electricity

This is the path to a cleaner, more reliable, more resilient energy grid.

more..

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Date: 1/01/2018 23:11:38
From: Michael V
ID: 1168158
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

nfi, sorry.

Plasmas take truckloads of energy to form and maintain, so there’d be a lot of waste that way.

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Date: 1/01/2018 23:14:50
From: party_pants
ID: 1168159
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

Can’t see anything changing too drastically, we are already making the transition to renewables and decentralised generation and storage, micro grids and the like.

Perhaps more battery technology, power tools are starting to come with bigger batteries and more power that will start to replace small petrols motors, but once again that move is already well underway.

I can’t see an alternative energy form to electricity.

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Date: 1/01/2018 23:29:50
From: Michael V
ID: 1168160
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

party_pants said:


Can’t see anything changing too drastically, we are already making the transition to renewables and decentralised generation and storage, micro grids and the like.

Perhaps more battery technology, power tools are starting to come with bigger batteries and more power that will start to replace small petrols motors, but once again that move is already well underway.

I can’t see an alternative energy form to electricity.

Agree.

In fact, the grid we are on is just an interconnected series of microgrids and was built that way from the start.

My grandfather came to Australia to set up (diesel) generation systems for individual towns and cities. These systems are now part of the grid. All of the small generation plants he set up are now redundant and have been replaced by more efficient large coal-fired plants. We are now finding other ways to manage interconnected microgrids. Especially with modern switching systems.

Sibeen is the forum expert on this, and you (tau.neutrino) should consult with him about this stuff.

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Date: 1/01/2018 23:47:14
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1168165
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

Michael V said:


party_pants said:

Can’t see anything changing too drastically, we are already making the transition to renewables and decentralised generation and storage, micro grids and the like.

Perhaps more battery technology, power tools are starting to come with bigger batteries and more power that will start to replace small petrols motors, but once again that move is already well underway.

I can’t see an alternative energy form to electricity.

Agree.

In fact, the grid we are on is just an interconnected series of microgrids and was built that way from the start.

My grandfather came to Australia to set up (diesel) generation systems for individual towns and cities. These systems are now part of the grid. All of the small generation plants he set up are now redundant and have been replaced by more efficient large coal-fired plants. We are now finding other ways to manage interconnected microgrids. Especially with modern switching systems.

Sibeen is the forum expert on this, and you (tau.neutrino) should consult with him about this stuff.

Its just a question that came to mind.

I’m also wondering what sort of electricity/energy aliens might use.

Reply Quote

Date: 1/01/2018 23:56:43
From: Michael V
ID: 1168168
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

Tau.Neutrino said:


Michael V said:

party_pants said:

Can’t see anything changing too drastically, we are already making the transition to renewables and decentralised generation and storage, micro grids and the like.

Perhaps more battery technology, power tools are starting to come with bigger batteries and more power that will start to replace small petrols motors, but once again that move is already well underway.

I can’t see an alternative energy form to electricity.

Agree.

In fact, the grid we are on is just an interconnected series of microgrids and was built that way from the start.

My grandfather came to Australia to set up (diesel) generation systems for individual towns and cities. These systems are now part of the grid. All of the small generation plants he set up are now redundant and have been replaced by more efficient large coal-fired plants. We are now finding other ways to manage interconnected microgrids. Especially with modern switching systems.

Sibeen is the forum expert on this, and you (tau.neutrino) should consult with him about this stuff.

Its just a question that came to mind.

I’m also wondering what sort of electricity/energy aliens might use.

That’s pretty much out there.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 00:00:20
From: Michael V
ID: 1168169
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

And I’m not sure Sibeen will be able to answer that without making stuff up, but I’d be interested to hear his musings.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 00:02:01
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1168170
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

Michael V said:


And I’m not sure Sibeen will be able to answer that without making stuff up, but I’d be interested to hear his musings.

so will I!

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 03:02:13
From: transition
ID: 1168191
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

quite a discovery electricity, well, using it as humans do, not forgetting it’s been around right through the evolution of life, and before, right back at the beginning of time. I bet the singularity had some too, though can’t be sure, I wasn’t there.

purifying metals helped with it all, to make conductors and stuff, somewhere, sometime, someone put to use alternating current, transformers, made use of different voltages for different distances and size conductors. A substantial achievement.

right up there with reticulated water, the piston engine, and piping sewage away.

ubiquitous comes to mind, of electricity.

Telepathy’s always been electric :-).

doubtful there will be a beyond electricity.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 08:57:40
From: Michael V
ID: 1168218
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

Morning all.

:)

My instrument tells me it’s 26.7& deg;C, 84% RH. My eyes tell me it’s 2/8 cloud (mostly high and all thin), and calm. BoM tells me to expect 30°C tops and that there’s a good chance of rain for most of the day.

I hope to start moving the dismantled garden sheds back from across the road today, in preparation for re-erection later this month. And Woodie’ll be going home today, after his summer holiday. Pity it wasn’t so nice down the beach, so we didn’t go for a surf.

:(

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Date: 2/01/2018 08:59:56
From: Michael V
ID: 1168220
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

Whoops. Sorry.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 09:01:37
From: ruby
ID: 1168221
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

Waves to Michael V and Woodie.
A big thank you to MV for talking about orange sauce yesterday, I explored the recipe at the Omnivore’s Cookbook and am going to give their crispy chicken and orange sauce a try tonight, it sounds extra good! FSM says his version is a bite of KFC followed by a swig of Fanta. Shakes head

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Date: 2/01/2018 09:02:17
From: ruby
ID: 1168222
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

D’oh. Wrong place too!

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Date: 2/01/2018 10:10:14
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1168231
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

There is a lot of either-orist hype about going off grid or microgrids.

The fact is we need to make much better use of local generation and storage, but we also need much more long term back-up, and long range supply, which both require a large scale grid.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 11:45:46
From: transition
ID: 1168247
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

The Rev Dodgson said:


There is a lot of either-orist hype about going off grid or microgrids.

The fact is we need to make much better use of local generation and storage, but we also need much more long term back-up, and long range supply, which both require a large scale grid.

i’m sensing a commitment to the growing we, and wondering of the distractions

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 11:51:07
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1168249
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

transition said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

There is a lot of either-orist hype about going off grid or microgrids.

The fact is we need to make much better use of local generation and storage, but we also need much more long term back-up, and long range supply, which both require a large scale grid.

i’m sensing a commitment to the growing we, and wondering of the distractions

I’m afraid I’m not understanding your banter old chap.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 11:52:19
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1168250
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

transition said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

There is a lot of either-orist hype about going off grid or microgrids.

The fact is we need to make much better use of local generation and storage, but we also need much more long term back-up, and long range supply, which both require a large scale grid.

i’m sensing a commitment to the growing we, and wondering of the distractions

that’s probably because you don’t understand english conventions.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 11:53:08
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1168251
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

The Rev Dodgson said:


transition said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

There is a lot of either-orist hype about going off grid or microgrids.

The fact is we need to make much better use of local generation and storage, but we also need much more long term back-up, and long range supply, which both require a large scale grid.

i’m sensing a commitment to the growing we, and wondering of the distractions

I’m afraid I’m not understanding your banter old chap.

it is your use of “we”, transition has a bugbear about this word for some reason.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 11:58:30
From: transition
ID: 1168255
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

ChrispenEvan said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

i’m sensing a commitment to the growing we, and wondering of the distractions

I’m afraid I’m not understanding your banter old chap.

it is your use of “we”, transition has a bugbear about this word for some reason.

no, I was thinking of the conversations that substitute for, or more displace conversations about overpopulation (unsustainable consumption).

the obliviation.

the commitment to the growing we seems part of the force.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 12:00:24
From: Michael V
ID: 1168256
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

ChrispenEvan said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

i’m sensing a commitment to the growing we, and wondering of the distractions

I’m afraid I’m not understanding your banter old chap.

it is your use of “we”, transition has a bugbear about this word for some reason.

He’s not a socialist. He’s a farmer.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 12:01:02
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1168257
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

transition said:


ChrispenEvan said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

I’m afraid I’m not understanding your banter old chap.

it is your use of “we”, transition has a bugbear about this word for some reason.

no, I was thinking of the conversations that substitute for, or more displace conversations about overpopulation (unsustainable consumption).

the obliviation.

the commitment to the growing we seems part of the force.

well “we” also might have to do something about overpopulation but that is another matter. this topic is about electricity supply etc.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 12:02:51
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1168258
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

transition said:


ChrispenEvan said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

I’m afraid I’m not understanding your banter old chap.

it is your use of “we”, transition has a bugbear about this word for some reason.

no, I was thinking of the conversations that substitute for, or more displace conversations about overpopulation (unsustainable consumption).

the obliviation.

the commitment to the growing we seems part of the force.

We might need more and better-provided electricity even without any population growth.

For a start there’ll be all those electric car batteries to keep recharging, before long.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 12:04:56
From: Cymek
ID: 1168259
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

The Rev Dodgson said:


There is a lot of either-orist hype about going off grid or microgrids.

The fact is we need to make much better use of local generation and storage, but we also need much more long term back-up, and long range supply, which both require a large scale grid.

Is it possible to long term store electricity.
Also I do wonder how much power is used to light up cities buildings at night for what appears no practical purpose

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 12:14:03
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1168261
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

transition said:


ChrispenEvan said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

I’m afraid I’m not understanding your banter old chap.

it is your use of “we”, transition has a bugbear about this word for some reason.

no, I was thinking of the conversations that substitute for, or more displace conversations about overpopulation (unsustainable consumption).

the obliviation.

the commitment to the growing we seems part of the force.

OK, but what I said neither stated nor implied any commitment to the growing we.

We (that is the great majority of the people living in Australia) will benefit from continuing provision of a broad-based electricity grid whether the population is declining, static or growing.

Even those who live in places where it makes sense not to be connected to the grid will continue to benefit from it.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 12:15:32
From: transition
ID: 1168262
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

ChrispenEvan said:


transition said:

ChrispenEvan said:

it is your use of “we”, transition has a bugbear about this word for some reason.

no, I was thinking of the conversations that substitute for, or more displace conversations about overpopulation (unsustainable consumption).

the obliviation.

the commitment to the growing we seems part of the force.

well “we” also might have to do something about overpopulation but that is another matter. this topic is about electricity supply etc.

i’d disagree, it’s not another matter, it’s one of the conversations that is had instead of the conversation about overpopulation, and growth driven by consumption.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 12:18:19
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1168263
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

Cymek said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

There is a lot of either-orist hype about going off grid or microgrids.

The fact is we need to make much better use of local generation and storage, but we also need much more long term back-up, and long range supply, which both require a large scale grid.

Is it possible to long term store electricity.

Yes. Pumped storage for instance is a good way to do it (in effect).

Cymek said:


Also I do wonder how much power is used to light up cities buildings at night for what appears no practical purpose

We also need to make energy use more efficient, but that applies whether we continue with a state/national grid or try and switch to micro grids.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 12:25:05
From: transition
ID: 1168264
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

>OK, but what I said neither stated nor implied any commitment to the growing we.

dunno, I got larger social organism out of we, trending toward delusions of super organism.

it hasn’t passed me by that if some other conscious species evolved here on earth (no hope), or landed on the planet from elsewhere, and wanted to use the resources like the we do, pretensions and all, that humans would war over it.

:-)

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 12:28:16
From: Cymek
ID: 1168266
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

transition said:


>OK, but what I said neither stated nor implied any commitment to the growing we.

dunno, I got larger social organism out of we, trending toward delusions of super organism.

it hasn’t passed me by that if some other conscious species evolved here on earth (no hope), or landed on the planet from elsewhere, and wanted to use the resources like the we do, pretensions and all, that humans would war over it.

:-)

I imagine we have enough resources to give everyone on the planet a decent lifestyle and minimise environmental damage if as a species we gave a damn and the powers that be implemented such a program

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 12:29:49
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1168268
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

ChrispenEvan said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

i’m sensing a commitment to the growing we, and wondering of the distractions

I’m afraid I’m not understanding your banter old chap.

it is your use of “we”, transition has a bugbear about this word for some reason.

“We” is the plural of “I”, from that point on I’m lost.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 12:34:38
From: AwesomeO
ID: 1168269
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

Instead of batteries for starting the engine and running the battery when the engine is off why don’t car petrol engines use a capacitator? No more four yearly or so battery changes.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 12:34:50
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1168270
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

Tau.Neutrino said:

“We” is the plural of “I”, from that point on I’m lost.

Englishman to in France to a local: Can you help me. I am new around here.

Frenchman: No, ‘we’ is ‘nous’ around here.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 12:34:59
From: AwesomeO
ID: 1168271
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

AwesomeO said:


Instead of batteries for starting the engine and running the battery when the engine is off why don’t car petrol engines use a capacitator? No more four yearly or so battery changes.

Oops, running the radio I meant.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 12:40:04
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1168273
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

The Rev Dodgson said:


Cymek said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

There is a lot of either-orist hype about going off grid or microgrids.

The fact is we need to make much better use of local generation and storage, but we also need much more long term back-up, and long range supply, which both require a large scale grid.

Is it possible to long term store electricity.

Yes. Pumped storage for instance is a good way to do it (in effect).

Cymek said:


Also I do wonder how much power is used to light up cities buildings at night for what appears no practical purpose

We also need to make energy use more efficient, but that applies whether we continue with a state/national grid or try and switch to micro grids.

What if an an extremely more efficient energy system lies in another future technology?

Wouldn’t “you” want to go looking for it or leave it ?

Swap if with we for the plural.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 12:41:12
From: btm
ID: 1168274
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

AwesomeO said:


Instead of batteries for starting the engine and running the battery when the engine is off why don’t car petrol engines use a capacitator? No more four yearly or so battery changes.

Assuming you mean capacitor rather than capacitator, you’d need one much larger than a battery to store enough energy to start the engine. They’re also much more leaky than a battery.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 12:42:20
From: Michael V
ID: 1168276
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

AwesomeO said:


Instead of batteries for starting the engine and running the battery when the engine is off why don’t car petrol engines use a capacitator? No more four yearly or so battery changes.
I guess because batteries are better at the storage game. If not, why did Mr Musk and the SA government install batteries for the grid back-up in South Australia?

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 12:43:44
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1168278
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

Cymek said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

There is a lot of either-orist hype about going off grid or microgrids.

The fact is we need to make much better use of local generation and storage, but we also need much more long term back-up, and long range supply, which both require a large scale grid.

Is it possible to long term store electricity.
Also I do wonder how much power is used to light up cities buildings at night for what appears no practical purpose

Light pollution effects astronomy

Light pollution also effects birds and other wildlife

So directing light to where its needed would be more efficient than sending into space etc

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 12:45:17
From: transition
ID: 1168279
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

Tau.Neutrino said:


ChrispenEvan said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

I’m afraid I’m not understanding your banter old chap.

it is your use of “we”, transition has a bugbear about this word for some reason.

“We” is the plural of “I”, from that point on I’m lost.

:) that’s funny

I guess you’re talking about the we that outlives you, that probably even anticipated you before you were born.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 12:47:46
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1168280
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

AwesomeO said:


AwesomeO said:

Instead of batteries for starting the engine and running the battery when the engine is off why don’t car petrol engines use a capacitator? No more four yearly or so battery changes.

Oops, running the radio I meant.

Perhaps you could use a magneto, but you’d have to go back to hand-cranking the engine. And i don’t think that’d be very easy, with modern high-compression engines.

If you used a capacitor, you’d have big leakage probs, as someone said, and how many tries at starting would it give you? Maybe not ideal on a cold morning.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 12:59:51
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1168281
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 13:02:20
From: Stumpy_seahorse
ID: 1168282
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

AwesomeO said:


AwesomeO said:

Instead of batteries for starting the engine and running the battery when the engine is off why don’t car petrol engines use a capacitator? No more four yearly or so battery changes.

Oops, running the radio I meant.

Capacitor technology isn’t good enough yet.

at present, they power your power windows a couple of times when the ignition i switched off and that’s it..

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 13:06:23
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1168283
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

The Rev Dodgson said:


Cymek said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

There is a lot of either-orist hype about going off grid or microgrids.

The fact is we need to make much better use of local generation and storage, but we also need much more long term back-up, and long range supply, which both require a large scale grid.

Is it possible to long term store electricity.

Yes. Pumped storage for instance is a good way to do it (in effect).

Cymek said:


Also I do wonder how much power is used to light up cities buildings at night for what appears no practical purpose

We also need to make energy use more efficient, but that applies whether we continue with a state/national grid or try and switch to micro grids.

What a bleak future it is, city lights having to be turned off to husband scarce power, electric cars in garages hardly used because the electricity is rationed and too expensive, abandoned electric vehicles strew along the highways and discarded batteries polluting or rivers and waterways, ugly wind turbines on every ridge and mountain top draining the atmosphere of it’s energy the consequences of which could be catastrophic.
Struggling farming families being raided in the middle of the night by masked officers in flack jackets from the Department of Excise and Energy for distilling fuel for their old tractors that they have hidden form being impounded and books on the internal combustion engine being burnt in the street by eco fundamentalists.
Still it wont affect me, I’ve had a pretty good life thanks to fossil fuel.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 13:08:55
From: Stumpy_seahorse
ID: 1168284
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

Peak Warming Man said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

Cymek said:

We also need to make energy use more efficient, but that applies whether we continue with a state/national grid or try and switch to micro grids.

What a bleak future it is, city lights having to be turned off to husband scarce power, electric cars in garages hardly used because the electricity is rationed and too expensive, abandoned electric vehicles strew along the highways and discarded batteries polluting or rivers and waterways, ugly wind turbines on every ridge and mountain top draining the atmosphere of it’s energy the consequences of which could be catastrophic.
Struggling farming families being raided in the middle of the night by masked officers in flack jackets from the Department of Excise and Energy for distilling fuel for their old tractors that they have hidden form being impounded and books on the internal combustion engine being burnt in the street by eco fundamentalists.
Still it wont affect me, I’ve had a pretty good life thanks to fossil fuel.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 13:09:55
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1168285
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

The Rev Dodgson said:


There is a lot of either-orist hype about going off grid or microgrids.

The fact is we need to make much better use of local generation and storage, but we also need much more long term back-up, and long range supply, which both require a large scale grid.

What if every building had its own solar panel / battery storage system, along with other power generation providers?

Then a scaleable power management system that could talk to any electrical device, it would require a super computer of what capacity? It would be talking to hundreds of billions of devices at once.

Then all the things that could be done with a single device that can talk to billions of devices.

Lots of information processing similar to radio astronomy data collecting and analyzing.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 13:11:12
From: Cymek
ID: 1168286
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

Peak Warming Man said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

Cymek said:

We also need to make energy use more efficient, but that applies whether we continue with a state/national grid or try and switch to micro grids.

What a bleak future it is, city lights having to be turned off to husband scarce power, electric cars in garages hardly used because the electricity is rationed and too expensive, abandoned electric vehicles strew along the highways and discarded batteries polluting or rivers and waterways, ugly wind turbines on every ridge and mountain top draining the atmosphere of it’s energy the consequences of which could be catastrophic.
Struggling farming families being raided in the middle of the night by masked officers in flack jackets from the Department of Excise and Energy for distilling fuel for their old tractors that they have hidden form being impounded and books on the internal combustion engine being burnt in the street by eco fundamentalists.
Still it wont affect me, I’ve had a pretty good life thanks to fossil fuel.

What does it cost to light up a skyscraper at night surely it would save the owners large amounts of money to not light them up
Why is it done ?

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 13:11:13
From: Michael V
ID: 1168287
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

Peak Warming Man said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

Cymek said:

We also need to make energy use more efficient, but that applies whether we continue with a state/national grid or try and switch to micro grids.

What a bleak future it is, city lights having to be turned off to husband scarce power, electric cars in garages hardly used because the electricity is rationed and too expensive, abandoned electric vehicles strew along the highways and discarded batteries polluting or rivers and waterways, ugly wind turbines on every ridge and mountain top draining the atmosphere of it’s energy the consequences of which could be catastrophic.
Struggling farming families being raided in the middle of the night by masked officers in flack jackets from the Department of Excise and Energy for distilling fuel for their old tractors that they have hidden form being impounded and books on the internal combustion engine being burnt in the street by eco fundamentalists.
Still it wont affect me, I’ve had a pretty good life thanks to fossil fuel.

lol

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 13:13:31
From: Stumpy_seahorse
ID: 1168289
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

Tau.Neutrino said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

There is a lot of either-orist hype about going off grid or microgrids.

The fact is we need to make much better use of local generation and storage, but we also need much more long term back-up, and long range supply, which both require a large scale grid.

What if every building had its own solar panel / battery storage system, along with other power generation providers?

Then a scaleable power management system that could talk to any electrical device, it would require a super computer of what capacity? It would be talking to hundreds of billions of devices at once.

Then all the things that could be done with a single device that can talk to billions of devices.

Lots of information processing similar to radio astronomy data collecting and analyzing.

what if,
what if,
what if…
what if frogs had wings.. they wouldn’t bump their arse when they hopped….

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 13:23:59
From: Cymek
ID: 1168291
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

What we need is portable batteries that can power our houses and hide them under the desk at work and charge them there

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 13:24:51
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1168292
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

LED lights could be more efficiently directed. I think science development needs to increase in this field.

We are seeing WIFI transmissions being more efficiently directed using science and technology.

Maybe something could be learnt from that in directing light wavesmore efficiently?

Waves in a sea of other waves, can be the cause of a lot of radio pollution.

One example would be changing a wifi transmission from omni directional to just maybe a few line of sight transmissions where its used etc then the amount of power can be reduced.

Technology in directing light waves is out there.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 13:31:16
From: Michael V
ID: 1168295
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

Stumpy_seahorse said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

There is a lot of either-orist hype about going off grid or microgrids.

The fact is we need to make much better use of local generation and storage, but we also need much more long term back-up, and long range supply, which both require a large scale grid.

What if every building had its own solar panel / battery storage system, along with other power generation providers?

Then a scaleable power management system that could talk to any electrical device, it would require a super computer of what capacity? It would be talking to hundreds of billions of devices at once.

Then all the things that could be done with a single device that can talk to billions of devices.

Lots of information processing similar to radio astronomy data collecting and analyzing.

what if,
what if,
what if…
what if frogs had wings.. they wouldn’t bump their arse when they hopped….

:)

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 13:32:28
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1168296
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

What if, what if, what if…
what if we could go to the moon…
what if frogs had wings.. .

What if, what if, what if…
what if we could go to the moon…
what if frogs had wings.. .

What if, what if, what if…
what if we could go to the moon…
what if frogs had wings…

they wouldn’t bump their arse when they hopped….
they wouldn’t sit around and wait for other frogs to do it for them…
they would use their wings…
get off their arse and do things….

What if, what if, what if…
what if we could go to the moon…
what if frogs had wings…

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 13:42:24
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1168299
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

Cymek said:

What does it cost to light up a skyscraper at night surely it would save the owners large amounts of money to not light them up
Why is it done ?

cleaners etc. i reckon.

AwesomeO said:


Instead of batteries for starting the engine and running the battery when the engine is off why don’t car petrol engines use a capacitator? No more four yearly or so battery changes.

they are looking at super capacitor technology for just this use.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 13:52:07
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1168300
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

ChrispenEvan said:


Cymek said:

What does it cost to light up a skyscraper at night surely it would save the owners large amounts of money to not light them up
Why is it done ?

cleaners etc. i reckon.

AwesomeO said:


Instead of batteries for starting the engine and running the battery when the engine is off why don’t car petrol engines use a capacitator? No more four yearly or so battery changes.

they are looking at super capacitor technology for just this use.

Mercedes is electrifying its vehicles. Super capacitors would fit in nicely with what they are doing.

https://techcrunch.com/2017/09/11/mercedes-benz-will-electrify-its-entire-car-lineup-by-2022/

Some new models already have this now.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 13:55:31
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1168303
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

Tau.Neutrino said:


ChrispenEvan said:

Cymek said:

What does it cost to light up a skyscraper at night surely it would save the owners large amounts of money to not light them up
Why is it done ?

cleaners etc. i reckon.

AwesomeO said:


Instead of batteries for starting the engine and running the battery when the engine is off why don’t car petrol engines use a capacitator? No more four yearly or so battery changes.

they are looking at super capacitor technology for just this use.

Mercedes is electrifying its vehicles. Super capacitors would fit in nicely with what they are doing.

https://techcrunch.com/2017/09/11/mercedes-benz-will-electrify-its-entire-car-lineup-by-2022/

Some new models already have this now.

https://newatlas.com/mercedes-48-volt-m264-engine/52026/

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 14:02:08
From: dv
ID: 1168304
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

Note that electricity does already compete with other forms of energy transfer, including physical transportation of fuel (natural gas, oil).

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 14:02:28
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1168305
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

transition said:


>OK, but what I said neither stated nor implied any commitment to the growing we.

dunno, I got larger social organism out of we, trending toward delusions of super organism.

Let me now what word you would like in place of “we” when I want to talk about some group of people that I am a part of, but without any implications of super organisms.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 14:04:57
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1168306
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

The Rev Dodgson said:


transition said:

>OK, but what I said neither stated nor implied any commitment to the growing we.

dunno, I got larger social organism out of we, trending toward delusions of super organism.

Let me now what word you would like in place of “we” when I want to talk about some group of people that I am a part of, but without any implications of super organisms.

“we three kings or orient far…” not very super just three.

;-)

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 14:05:18
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1168307
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

ChrispenEvan said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

>OK, but what I said neither stated nor implied any commitment to the growing we.

dunno, I got larger social organism out of we, trending toward delusions of super organism.

Let me now what word you would like in place of “we” when I want to talk about some group of people that I am a part of, but without any implications of super organisms.

“we three kings of orient far…” not very super just three.

;-)

fixed

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 14:05:54
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1168308
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

Tau.Neutrino said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

Cymek said:

We also need to make energy use more efficient, but that applies whether we continue with a state/national grid or try and switch to micro grids.

What if an an extremely more efficient energy system lies in another future technology?

Wouldn’t “you” want to go looking for it or leave it ?

Swap if with we for the plural.

Strange question. Why wouldn’t we use it?

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 14:07:34
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1168310
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

The Rev Dodgson said:


transition said:

>OK, but what I said neither stated nor implied any commitment to the growing we.

dunno, I got larger social organism out of we, trending toward delusions of super organism.

Let me now what word you would like in place of “we” when I want to talk about some group of people that I am a part of, but without any implications of super organisms.

You could simply have said:

The fact is that non-super-organism-we need to make much better use of local generation and storage, but non-super-organism-we also need much more long term back-up, and long range supply, which both require a large scale grid.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 14:09:09
From: dv
ID: 1168314
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

It will be simpler if we just continue to use English conventionally. That way, we’ll understand each other.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 14:09:35
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1168315
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

Tau.Neutrino said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

There is a lot of either-orist hype about going off grid or microgrids.

The fact is we need to make much better use of local generation and storage, but we also need much more long term back-up, and long range supply, which both require a large scale grid.

What if every building had its own solar panel / battery storage system, along with other power generation providers?

Then a scaleable power management system that could talk to any electrical device, it would require a super computer of what capacity? It would be talking to hundreds of billions of devices at once.

Then all the things that could be done with a single device that can talk to billions of devices.

Lots of information processing similar to radio astronomy data collecting and analyzing.

You are over-complicating it, but yes, that is one advantage of a big grid.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 14:11:12
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1168316
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

dv said:


It will be simpler if we just continue to use English conventionally. That way, we’ll understand each other.

What you mean ‘we’, paleface?

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 14:12:05
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1168319
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

dv said:


Note that electricity does already compete with other forms of energy transfer, including physical transportation of fuel (natural gas, oil).

Yes, but they have a habit of running out. but there are still lots of reserves around. Especially in space.

Someone could mine all this hydrogen, helium and other space gases and bring it to Earth.

Wonders how the stock market would look with space resources, the same, a bit bigger here and there?

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 14:13:42
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1168320
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

Bubblecar said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

>OK, but what I said neither stated nor implied any commitment to the growing we.

dunno, I got larger social organism out of we, trending toward delusions of super organism.

Let me now what word you would like in place of “we” when I want to talk about some group of people that I am a part of, but without any implications of super organisms.

You could simply have said:

The fact is that non-super-organism-we need to make much better use of local generation and storage, but non-super-organism-we also need much more long term back-up, and long range supply, which both require a large scale grid.

Could I get away with nsowe instead?

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 14:14:29
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1168321
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

Tau.Neutrino said:

Wonders how the stock market would look with space resources, the same, a bit bigger here and there?

Never mind that, think of the futures market!

Whole new areas in which to bet with other peoples’ money on the value of things that do not exist, have never existed, and, in all likelihood, never will exist!

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 14:16:20
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1168322
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

The Rev Dodgson said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

There is a lot of either-orist hype about going off grid or microgrids.

The fact is we need to make much better use of local generation and storage, but we also need much more long term back-up, and long range supply, which both require a large scale grid.

What if every building had its own solar panel / battery storage system, along with other power generation providers?

Then a scaleable power management system that could talk to any electrical device, it would require a super computer of what capacity? It would be talking to hundreds of billions of devices at once.

Then all the things that could be done with a single device that can talk to billions of devices.

Lots of information processing similar to radio astronomy data collecting and analyzing.

You are over-complicating it, but yes, that is one advantage of a big grid.

Space stations on the moon and on Mars will require very smart scaleable power grids.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 14:17:52
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1168324
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

Tau.Neutrino said:


dv said:

Note that electricity does already compete with other forms of energy transfer, including physical transportation of fuel (natural gas, oil).

Yes, but they have a habit of running out. but there are still lots of reserves around. Especially in space.

Someone could mine all this hydrogen, helium and other space gases and bring it to Earth.

Wonders how the stock market would look with space resources, the same, a bit bigger here and there?

I could be wrong, but it seems very improbable to me that mining hydrogen from space will prove to be a more efficient option than mining hydrogen here on Earth, combined with using solar power directly without introducing hydrogen.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 14:19:00
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1168326
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

Tau.Neutrino said:

Space stations on the moon and on Mars will require very smart scaleable power grids.

The ones on Mars will only have to work for a limited time.

Once people realise that there’s no point in making a one-way trip to an airless, lifeless desert shit-hole, and the first ones die off, there’ll be no need for electricity on Mars.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 14:21:20
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1168327
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

Tau.Neutrino said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

What if every building had its own solar panel / battery storage system, along with other power generation providers?

Then a scaleable power management system that could talk to any electrical device, it would require a super computer of what capacity? It would be talking to hundreds of billions of devices at once.

Then all the things that could be done with a single device that can talk to billions of devices.

Lots of information processing similar to radio astronomy data collecting and analyzing.

You are over-complicating it, but yes, that is one advantage of a big grid.

Space stations on the moon and on Mars will require very smart scaleable power grids.

Really large space craft like the Death Star would also require smart scalable grids

Perhaps the death star wouldn’t have been able to have been blown up by luke skywalker if it had used micro grids

The ISS uses scaleable grids doesn’t it?

They can add or remove modules to it.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 14:24:36
From: Michael V
ID: 1168328
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

Tau.Neutrino said:


dv said:

Note that electricity does already compete with other forms of energy transfer, including physical transportation of fuel (natural gas, oil).

Yes, but they have a habit of running out. but there are still lots of reserves around. Especially in space.

Someone could mine all this hydrogen, helium and other space gases and bring it to Earth.

Wonders how the stock market would look with space resources, the same, a bit bigger here and there?

I’m not putting money into space Helium for energy use. For making funny voices and filling balloons, maybe. Even then it’d have to be a whole lot scarcer than it is now (and I know it already is scarce).

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 14:25:57
From: Michael V
ID: 1168329
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

captain_spalding said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Space stations on the moon and on Mars will require very smart scaleable power grids.

The ones on Mars will only have to work for a limited time.

Once people realise that there’s no point in making a one-way trip to an airless, lifeless desert shit-hole, and the first ones die off, there’ll be no need for electricity on Mars.

:)

Well put!

:)

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 14:33:13
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1168330
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

Michael V said:


captain_spalding said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Space stations on the moon and on Mars will require very smart scaleable power grids.

The ones on Mars will only have to work for a limited time.

Once people realise that there’s no point in making a one-way trip to an airless, lifeless desert shit-hole, and the first ones die off, there’ll be no need for electricity on Mars.

:)

Well put!

:)

Robots for mining stuff on Mars will still require power to do so.

Humans going to Mars, would be for ultra rich space tourists which might filter down to the masses over time.

For the Moon. Both a central and individual power grid built into the moon caves would be essential I would think.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 14:35:41
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1168332
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

Tau.Neutrino said:


Michael V said:

captain_spalding said:

The ones on Mars will only have to work for a limited time.

Once people realise that there’s no point in making a one-way trip to an airless, lifeless desert shit-hole, and the first ones die off, there’ll be no need for electricity on Mars.

:)

Well put!

:)

Robots for mining stuff on Mars will still require power to do so.

Humans going to Mars, would be for ultra rich space tourists which might filter down to the masses over time.

For the Moon. Both a central and individual power grid built into the moon caves would be essential I would think.

If one was designing a new city from scratch many different technologies could be used together.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 14:48:34
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1168337
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

Tau.Neutrino said:


Meet the microgrid, the technology poised to transform electricity

This is the path to a cleaner, more reliable, more resilient energy grid.

more..

Further reading

One of us will be writing more about microgrids soon. In the meantime, there are a gazillion reports floating around. A selection:

GTM: U.S. Microgrids 2017: Market Drivers, Analysis and Forecast

Institute for Local Self-Reliance: Mighty Microgrids

Navigant Research: “Market Data: Microgrids and Military Microgrids

NEMA: Powering Microgrids for the 21st-Century Electrical System

Alireza Aram, Energy Solutions Division, Hitachi America: Microgrid Market in the USAPDF

DOE: The U.S. Department of Energy’s Microgrid Initiative – PDF

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 14:49:38
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1168338
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

Virtual power plant

A virtual power plant (VPP) is a cloud-based distributed power plant that aggregates the capacities of heterogeneous Distributed Energy Resources (DERs) for the purposes of enhancing power generation, as well as trading or selling power on the open market. Examples of virtual power plants exist in the United States, Europe, and Australia.

more…

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 15:05:22
From: Cymek
ID: 1168343
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

I wonder if you could use biological movement to generate power for battery storage

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 15:09:04
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1168346
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

Cymek said:


I wonder if you could use biological movement to generate power for battery storage

Like using virus and bacteria, other ways?

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 15:14:12
From: Cymek
ID: 1168347
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

Tau.Neutrino said:


Cymek said:

I wonder if you could use biological movement to generate power for battery storage

Like using virus and bacteria, other ways?

I was thinking putting harnesses on animals (cows, sheep, etc) and their movement generates power but I was being somewhat silly

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 15:50:44
From: transition
ID: 1168354
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

The Rev Dodgson said:


transition said:

>OK, but what I said neither stated nor implied any commitment to the growing we.

dunno, I got larger social organism out of we, trending toward delusions of super organism.

Let me now what word you would like in place of “we” when I want to talk about some group of people that I am a part of, but without any implications of super organisms.

let we have us our fun

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 15:57:46
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1168357
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

Tau.Neutrino said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

What if every building had its own solar panel / battery storage system, along with other power generation providers?

Then a scaleable power management system that could talk to any electrical device, it would require a super computer of what capacity? It would be talking to hundreds of billions of devices at once.

Then all the things that could be done with a single device that can talk to billions of devices.

Lots of information processing similar to radio astronomy data collecting and analyzing.

You are over-complicating it, but yes, that is one advantage of a big grid.

Space stations on the moon and on Mars will require very smart scaleable power grids.

Hard thing to do on Mars, harder than trying to work out Boris’ zodiac sign.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 17:59:04
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1168392
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

Tau.Neutrino said:


Beyond Electricity.

Thoughts?

What will replace the current electricity system we have?

Some kind of pure superconducting plasma?

Something less ambitious?

Not quite on topic but close enough.

I’ve been thinking on and off about utility supply to houses. in addition to what we have now.

For starters – 1.5 Volt DC supply would do away with all those transformers around the house. Direct supply for computer equipment, phones and lighting.
Greywater supply – to be used for washing and garden watering.
Hot water supply – no more water heaters needed for houses.
Emergency oxygen supply to houses. For use when there are breathing difficulties, as well as for welding.
Demineralised water supply to all houses.
Petrol supply line to fill up the car at home.
“Gas and air” nitrous oxide supply for emergency pain relief.
Welding gases – argon & acetylene.
Compressed air supply.
Pneumatic tube for fast deliveries of letters and small parcels, replaces “meals on wheels”.
Dry chemical, foam, carbon dioxide or halon supply for extinguishing fires rapidly.
Cold supply – to replace air conditioners and refrigerators.
Vacuum – for cleaning just plug into the wall socket.

Is that enough?

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 17:59:57
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1168394
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

Cymek said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Cymek said:

I wonder if you could use biological movement to generate power for battery storage

Like using virus and bacteria, other ways?

I was thinking putting harnesses on animals (cows, sheep, etc) and their movement generates power but I was being somewhat silly

I wonder if horses could pull an efficient dynamo round a track? Probably already been tried.

Wonders what latest technology could do?

They could have had dynamos fitted to horse drawn carriages, probably someone has done it.

I dont think it took off.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 18:08:37
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1168400
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

For starters – 1.5 Volt DC supply would do away with all those transformers around the house. Direct supply for computer equipment, phones and lighting.

5V is more common.

Emergency oxygen supply to houses. For use when there are breathing difficulties, as well as for welding.

great in a house fire.

Petrol supply line to fill up the car at home.

Great in a house fire.

“Gas and air” nitrous oxide supply for emergency pain relief.

Hmmmm abused much?

Welding gases – argon & acetylene.

Cost re any leakage and great in a house fire.

Dry chemical, foam, carbon dioxide or halon supply for extinguishing fires rapidly.

Halon would be a health problem for occupants.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 18:16:31
From: Michael V
ID: 1168405
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

mollwollfumble said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Beyond Electricity.

Thoughts?

What will replace the current electricity system we have?

Some kind of pure superconducting plasma?

Something less ambitious?

Not quite on topic but close enough.

I’ve been thinking on and off about utility supply to houses. in addition to what we have now.

For starters – 1.5 Volt DC supply would do away with all those transformers around the house. Direct supply for computer equipment, phones and lighting.
Greywater supply – to be used for washing and garden watering.
Hot water supply – no more water heaters needed for houses.
Emergency oxygen supply to houses. For use when there are breathing difficulties, as well as for welding.
Demineralised water supply to all houses.
Petrol supply line to fill up the car at home.
“Gas and air” nitrous oxide supply for emergency pain relief.
Welding gases – argon & acetylene.
Compressed air supply.
Pneumatic tube for fast deliveries of letters and small parcels, replaces “meals on wheels”.
Dry chemical, foam, carbon dioxide or halon supply for extinguishing fires rapidly.
Cold supply – to replace air conditioners and refrigerators.
Vacuum – for cleaning just plug into the wall socket.

Is that enough?

LOL
I want them. Now, right now.

:)

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 18:18:05
From: Michael V
ID: 1168406
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

Tau.Neutrino said:


Cymek said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Like using virus and bacteria, other ways?

I was thinking putting harnesses on animals (cows, sheep, etc) and their movement generates power but I was being somewhat silly

I wonder if horses could pull an efficient dynamo round a track? Probably already been tried.

Wonders what latest technology could do?

They could have had dynamos fitted to horse drawn carriages, probably someone has done it.

I dont think it took off.

Horse gear. I had a friend who had two. One for a single horse, one for three horses.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 18:25:37
From: party_pants
ID: 1168408
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

mollwollfumble said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Beyond Electricity.

Thoughts?

What will replace the current electricity system we have?

Some kind of pure superconducting plasma?

Something less ambitious?

Not quite on topic but close enough.

I’ve been thinking on and off about utility supply to houses. in addition to what we have now.

For starters – 1.5 Volt DC supply would do away with all those transformers around the house. Direct supply for computer equipment, phones and lighting.
Greywater supply – to be used for washing and garden watering.
Hot water supply – no more water heaters needed for houses.
Emergency oxygen supply to houses. For use when there are breathing difficulties, as well as for welding.
Demineralised water supply to all houses.
Petrol supply line to fill up the car at home.
“Gas and air” nitrous oxide supply for emergency pain relief.
Welding gases – argon & acetylene.
Compressed air supply.
Pneumatic tube for fast deliveries of letters and small parcels, replaces “meals on wheels”.
Dry chemical, foam, carbon dioxide or halon supply for extinguishing fires rapidly.
Cold supply – to replace air conditioners and refrigerators.
Vacuum – for cleaning just plug into the wall socket.

Is that enough?

Probably a 5V DV USB system would be better. I would be worried about transmission losses (even within a house) if you had a separate grid for them. Easiest thing to do would be to replace the current standard double wall power points with one that includes a built-in USB transformer. They make them already, I was offered them as an option when building my house but they were a bit exxy.

Petrol. welding gases etc – not necessary for the average household.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 18:29:46
From: transition
ID: 1168413
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

>For starters – 1.5 Volt DC supply would do away with all those transformers around the house

you can lose 1.5V in a length of wire/cable real easy

I see 1.5V+ a few more disappear and turn into heat all the time, does no work at all, and that’s when I started with 240 of them, in which case it hardly matters, using a modest wire cross sectional diameter.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 18:33:43
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1168415
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

captain_spalding said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Wonders how the stock market would look with space resources, the same, a bit bigger here and there?

Never mind that, think of the futures market!

Whole new areas in which to bet with other peoples’ money on the value of things that do not exist, have never existed, and, in all likelihood, never will exist!

You sound misinformed. Futues markets have real and tangible benefits.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 18:35:17
From: transition
ID: 1168416
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

transition said:


>For starters – 1.5 Volt DC supply would do away with all those transformers around the house

you can lose 1.5V in a length of wire/cable real easy

I see 1.5V+ a few more disappear and turn into heat all the time, does no work at all, and that’s when I started with 240 of them, in which case it hardly matters, using a modest wire cross sectional diameter.

using a modest wire cross sectional diameter.

should read cross sectional area

get it right

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 18:37:56
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1168419
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

Witty Rejoinder said:


captain_spalding said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Wonders how the stock market would look with space resources, the same, a bit bigger here and there?

Never mind that, think of the futures market!

Whole new areas in which to bet with other peoples’ money on the value of things that do not exist, have never existed, and, in all likelihood, never will exist!

You sound misinformed. Futues markets have real and tangible benefits.

OK, but my premise still holds.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 18:41:25
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1168421
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

captain_spalding said:


Witty Rejoinder said:

captain_spalding said:

Never mind that, think of the futures market!

Whole new areas in which to bet with other peoples’ money on the value of things that do not exist, have never existed, and, in all likelihood, never will exist!

You sound misinformed. Futues markets have real and tangible benefits.

OK, but my premise still holds.

What premise is that?

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 18:44:14
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1168424
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

I recall an instance in the futures market some years back when, through some oversight, something was about to fall due , and it appeared that someone, somewhere would have to produce the items which had been touted – i recall it was live steers, of a certain age and minimum weight, with a thickness of fat of so many mm at the nth rib, etc. etc.

Lots of people in expensive suits were getting extremely emotional as the day approached, but somehow a solution was found, and the contracts were extended considerably.

Whew!

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 18:46:29
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1168426
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

Tau.Neutrino said:


Beyond Electricity.

Thoughts?

What will replace the current electricity system we have?

Some kind of pure superconducting plasma?

Something less ambitious?

Thought process starting.

Let’s start by going back 2,000 years.

Utilities back then were:

Electricity is nice because electrons are stable (don’t decay like neutrons and muons, and plasmas), lightweight so cheap to move, and high grade (unlike for example mechanical or thermal energy). High grade means that electricity can be converted into mechanical and thermal energy without significant loss whereas the opposite is not true.

Could optical fibres replace electric power? Photons are also stable, lightweight, cheap to move. But so far there are energy losses in converting photons into electricity – or are there – energy losses for the conversion of monochromatic light to electricity may be reducible to near zero. What about energy losses for transmission over long distances? With improved technology not too different between optic fibre and electric power.

Could I efficiently run my microwave oven off the power from an optic fibre?

Could I efficiently run a 150 kW three phase motor from an optical fibre?

I can’t see any real reason why not, give improvements in photonic technology. Whereas few optic fibres now carry power at a greater intensity than 0.001 Watts, “An ultrafast laser pulse can have peak power of around 10 15 watts, and will happily go down an optical fibre if you spread it in directions orthogonal to the beam such that it has low enough intensity to avoid destroying the fibre. This might require a slightly wider core than standard, but is routinely done.” from https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/4lp6on/how_much_power_can_an_optical_fiber_carry/

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 18:49:23
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1168427
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

The futures market is founded on the basis that you never expect to take ownership of the specified items. Your goal is to sell the putative ownership of the items (which almost certainly do not yet exist) to some other sucker at a profit.

The bet is that you’ll find that sucker before the date on which the items will allegedly be produced – otherwise, you’ll be down a lot of dosh, and there’ll quite likely be nothing to show for it.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 18:51:50
From: AwesomeO
ID: 1168430
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

captain_spalding said:


The futures market is founded on the basis that you never expect to take ownership of the specified items. Your goal is to sell the putative ownership of the items (which almost certainly do not yet exist) to some other sucker at a profit.

The bet is that you’ll find that sucker before the date on which the items will allegedly be produced – otherwise, you’ll be down a lot of dosh, and there’ll quite likely be nothing to show for it.

I thought it was founded on pork and sellers securing a market before they went to the trouble of breeding the pigs which they would sell to a guaranteed buyer…in the future.

In fact it was mostly an agricultural initiative and it was risk management from the farmer.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 18:54:37
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1168432
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

Witty Rejoinder said:


captain_spalding said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

You sound misinformed. Futues markets have real and tangible benefits.

OK, but my premise still holds.

What premise is that?

That the future does not exist.

Something like that I think.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 18:55:56
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1168433
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

AwesomeO said:

I thought it was founded on pork and sellers securing a market before they went to the trouble of breeding the pigs which they would sell to a guaranteed buyer…in the future.

In fact it was mostly an agricultural initiative and it was risk management from the farmer.

That was the idea. But, then some smart people realised that they might find a buyer for the ‘ownership’ of those yet-to-be-born pigs to whom they coud sell the rights at a profit, and never have to actually deal with the pigs.

Once that idea took hold, there was suddenly futures markets for lots of things, and few people cared if the specified items ever came into existence. The physical goods were secondary to the profits from the sale of their future ownership.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 19:03:04
From: btm
ID: 1168436
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

mollwollfumble said:


Not quite on topic but close enough.

I’ve been thinking on and off about utility supply to houses. in addition to what we have now.

For starters – 1.5 Volt DC supply would do away with all those transformers around the house.

Stops reading.

You do know why Tesla invented AC, don’t you?

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 19:05:46
From: AwesomeO
ID: 1168439
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

btm said:


mollwollfumble said:

Not quite on topic but close enough.

I’ve been thinking on and off about utility supply to houses. in addition to what we have now.

For starters – 1.5 Volt DC supply would do away with all those transformers around the house.

Stops reading.

You do know why Tesla invented AC, don’t you?

Death rays? Actually I do know, read it the other day, big voltages can be sent through wires then stepped down to 110 (in America). Previously with DC, the houses at one end of the street would have blazing lights and the one at the end would have a dim yellow glow. And you would need a generating station on every block.

Or so is my understanding.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 19:06:16
From: Stumpy_seahorse
ID: 1168440
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

btm said:


mollwollfumble said:

Not quite on topic but close enough.

I’ve been thinking on and off about utility supply to houses. in addition to what we have now.

For starters – 1.5 Volt DC supply would do away with all those transformers around the house.

Stops reading.

You do know why Tesla invented AC, don’t you?

Bon Scott needed a longer band name?

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 19:07:04
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1168441
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

btm said:


mollwollfumble said:

Not quite on topic but close enough.

I’ve been thinking on and off about utility supply to houses. in addition to what we have now.

For starters – 1.5 Volt DC supply would do away with all those transformers around the house.

Stops reading.

You do know why Tesla invented AC, don’t you?

he didn’t, but i think you know that.

:-)

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 19:07:58
From: AwesomeO
ID: 1168443
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

Stumpy_seahorse said:


btm said:

mollwollfumble said:

Not quite on topic but close enough.

I’ve been thinking on and off about utility supply to houses. in addition to what we have now.

For starters – 1.5 Volt DC supply would do away with all those transformers around the house.

Stops reading.

You do know why Tesla invented AC, don’t you?

Bon Scott needed a longer band name?

I seem to recall as AC/DC they had a different lead singer before Bon.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 19:09:54
From: dv
ID: 1168444
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

Hippolyte Pixii was the first person to build an AC generator. That was in 1832.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 19:17:14
From: Cymek
ID: 1168446
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

AwesomeO said:


captain_spalding said:

The futures market is founded on the basis that you never expect to take ownership of the specified items. Your goal is to sell the putative ownership of the items (which almost certainly do not yet exist) to some other sucker at a profit.

The bet is that you’ll find that sucker before the date on which the items will allegedly be produced – otherwise, you’ll be down a lot of dosh, and there’ll quite likely be nothing to show for it.

I thought it was founded on pork and sellers securing a market before they went to the trouble of breeding the pigs which they would sell to a guaranteed buyer…in the future.

In fact it was mostly an agricultural initiative and it was risk management from the farmer.

These guys got burnt by the futures market

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 19:18:50
From: Cymek
ID: 1168447
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

AwesomeO said:


btm said:

mollwollfumble said:

Not quite on topic but close enough.

I’ve been thinking on and off about utility supply to houses. in addition to what we have now.

For starters – 1.5 Volt DC supply would do away with all those transformers around the house.

Stops reading.

You do know why Tesla invented AC, don’t you?

Death rays? Actually I do know, read it the other day, big voltages can be sent through wires then stepped down to 110 (in America). Previously with DC, the houses at one end of the street would have blazing lights and the one at the end would have a dim yellow glow. And you would need a generating station on every block.

Or so is my understanding.

Isn’t that how the NBN works

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 19:20:36
From: Michael V
ID: 1168450
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

dv said:


Hippolyte Pixii was the first person to build an AC generator. That was in 1832.
Thanks.

What a name, eh?

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 19:22:06
From: sibeen
ID: 1168451
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

Michael V said:


dv said:

Hippolyte Pixii was the first person to build an AC generator. That was in 1832.
Thanks.

What a name, eh?

It’s the major reason that electrical engineers are considered to be away with the pixiis.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 19:26:44
From: Michael V
ID: 1168458
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

sibeen said:


Michael V said:

dv said:

Hippolyte Pixii was the first person to build an AC generator. That was in 1832.
Thanks.

What a name, eh?

It’s the major reason that electrical engineers are considered to be away with the pixiis.

:)

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 21:59:42
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1168572
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

sibeen said:


Michael V said:

dv said:

Hippolyte Pixii was the first person to build an AC generator. That was in 1832.
Thanks.

What a name, eh?

It’s the major reason that electrical engineers are considered to be away with the pixiis.

From more recent thread:
“For example, they could track the decline of steam and corresponding rise of electricity – the opposing trajectories crossed each other in 1898.”

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 22:59:26
From: transition
ID: 1168600
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

should mention, to rev, and neutrino I think it was (call it an apology), that I don’t have a problem with the use of the term we, their use, uses, whatever, it’s more some aspects of the force of culture, of those pretensions not to be a force also.

frankly a bit more useful we would be good.

ambivalence is what I have about the force of culture, well, the many, the work of the dominant species, dominance.

unqualified inclusive terms spook me.

there has always been comfort/s in numbers, the expanding human population being no exception, to a point.

i’m staying with the view that many conversations are had in this age instead of conversations about overpopulation. The workarounds the taboo.

like you know what Australians do for energy (now and into the future) is influenced by carbon emissions elsewhere in the world (which is related to population growth, rates now and projections).

on the subject of the evolution of the power grid, it will more trend toward a distributed source, which is really load sharing I guess. Smart management of power systems will become commonplace, within and over different scales.

i’m not sure how they’re going to do the grunt base load though, in a system that needs to harden against a failure somewhere bringing down more than a minimum of the network. I might be wrong, but that sort of redundancy requires more wire etc, more complexity, more base load provisioning (more medium size supplies).

somewhere down the track i’d expect Australia will be using nuclear power.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_Australia

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 23:09:43
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1168604
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

there isn’t much we can do about overpopulation. we can do stuff about power generation.

what conversations do you want to have about overpopulation? what are you solutions?

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 23:13:52
From: roughbarked
ID: 1168605
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

ChrispenEvan said:


there isn’t much we can do about overpopulation. we can do stuff about power generation.

what conversations do you want to have about overpopulation? what are you solutions?

Overpopulation will probably sort itself out by killing us off?

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 23:15:28
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1168606
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

roughbarked said:


ChrispenEvan said:

there isn’t much we can do about overpopulation. we can do stuff about power generation.

what conversations do you want to have about overpopulation? what are you solutions?

Overpopulation will probably sort itself out by killing us off?

so no need to do anything then? good, we can concentrate on working on power generation.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 23:17:34
From: transition
ID: 1168608
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

>there isn’t much we can do about overpopulation.

there ya go

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 23:19:26
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1168610
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

transition said:


>there isn’t much we can do about overpopulation.

there ya go

so that is the level of the conversation you have? nothing more? Come on you keep banging on about it add something.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 23:19:27
From: party_pants
ID: 1168611
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

ChrispenEvan said:


roughbarked said:

ChrispenEvan said:

there isn’t much we can do about overpopulation. we can do stuff about power generation.

what conversations do you want to have about overpopulation? what are you solutions?

Overpopulation will probably sort itself out by killing us off?

so no need to do anything then? good, we can concentrate on working on power generation.

sticking to what we know and all that, sound strategy :)

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 23:21:35
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1168613
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

thing is there are plenty of people actually doing something about overpopulation. educating women in developing countries so then they earn better income and so need fewer kids. better health, so fewer kids. raising the standard of living, so fewer kids.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 23:24:45
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1168614
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

ChrispenEvan said:


thing is there are plenty of people actually doing something about overpopulation. educating women in developing countries so then they earn better income and so need fewer kids. better health, so fewer kids. raising the standard of living, so fewer kids.

so i guess if you don’t bother to read about such things you can then pretend that there isn’t a “conversation”.

the decline in the world’s birthrate is attributable to these programs. Plus a decline in the fertility rate. we’ve talked about these quite a few times here.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 23:25:59
From: roughbarked
ID: 1168615
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

ChrispenEvan said:


thing is there are plenty of people actually doing something about overpopulation. educating women in developing countries so then they earn better income and so need fewer kids. better health, so fewer kids. raising the standard of living, so fewer kids.

Yes. Though we still have to get through the period that is upon us now where overpopulation is reaching its peak effect. By that I wasn’t speaking of a peak in population but a peak in the effect that overpopulation has had.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 23:27:16
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1168616
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

roughbarked said:


ChrispenEvan said:

thing is there are plenty of people actually doing something about overpopulation. educating women in developing countries so then they earn better income and so need fewer kids. better health, so fewer kids. raising the standard of living, so fewer kids.

Yes. Though we still have to get through the period that is upon us now where overpopulation is reaching its peak effect. By that I wasn’t speaking of a peak in population but a peak in the effect that overpopulation has had.

so, what are your suggestions?

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 23:29:25
From: transition
ID: 1168618
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

ChrispenEvan said:


transition said:

>there isn’t much we can do about overpopulation.

there ya go

so that is the level of the conversation you have? nothing more? Come on you keep banging on about it add something.

oh, I misread you, I struggled to find any encouragement in there isn’t much we can do about overpopulation, for a moment I thought i’d ventured too close to a black hole. You’re safe company now.

bump me tomorrow, if your enthusiasm stays.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 23:29:54
From: roughbarked
ID: 1168619
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

ChrispenEvan said:


ChrispenEvan said:

thing is there are plenty of people actually doing something about overpopulation. educating women in developing countries so then they earn better income and so need fewer kids. better health, so fewer kids. raising the standard of living, so fewer kids.

so i guess if you don’t bother to read about such things you can then pretend that there isn’t a “conversation”.

the decline in the world’s birthrate is attributable to these programs. Plus a decline in the fertility rate. we’ve talked about these quite a few times here.


So overpopulation is killing off the problem? Or is there another definition?

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 23:31:11
From: roughbarked
ID: 1168621
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

ChrispenEvan said:


roughbarked said:

ChrispenEvan said:

thing is there are plenty of people actually doing something about overpopulation. educating women in developing countries so then they earn better income and so need fewer kids. better health, so fewer kids. raising the standard of living, so fewer kids.

Yes. Though we still have to get through the period that is upon us now where overpopulation is reaching its peak effect. By that I wasn’t speaking of a peak in population but a peak in the effect that overpopulation has had.

so, what are your suggestions?

As to getting through this period? Apart from the option of sticking your head between your legs and kissing your arse goodbye?

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 23:31:23
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1168622
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

roughbarked said:


ChrispenEvan said:

ChrispenEvan said:

thing is there are plenty of people actually doing something about overpopulation. educating women in developing countries so then they earn better income and so need fewer kids. better health, so fewer kids. raising the standard of living, so fewer kids.

so i guess if you don’t bother to read about such things you can then pretend that there isn’t a “conversation”.

the decline in the world’s birthrate is attributable to these programs. Plus a decline in the fertility rate. we’ve talked about these quite a few times here.


So overpopulation is killing off the problem? Or is there another definition?

how did you get that from my post?

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 23:31:51
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1168624
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

roughbarked said:


ChrispenEvan said:

roughbarked said:

Yes. Though we still have to get through the period that is upon us now where overpopulation is reaching its peak effect. By that I wasn’t speaking of a peak in population but a peak in the effect that overpopulation has had.

so, what are your suggestions?

As to getting through this period? ….

yes

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 23:34:05
From: roughbarked
ID: 1168626
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

ChrispenEvan said:


roughbarked said:

ChrispenEvan said:

so i guess if you don’t bother to read about such things you can then pretend that there isn’t a “conversation”.

the decline in the world’s birthrate is attributable to these programs. Plus a decline in the fertility rate. we’ve talked about these quite a few times here.


So overpopulation is killing off the problem? Or is there another definition?

how did you get that from my post?

Have they put a tag on what is causing the decline in fertility?

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 23:35:03
From: roughbarked
ID: 1168627
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

ChrispenEvan said:


roughbarked said:

ChrispenEvan said:

so, what are your suggestions?

As to getting through this period? ….

yes

Well it is going to be difficult. Even for the Indian who wants to put 800 million young people to work.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 23:37:33
From: roughbarked
ID: 1168631
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

roughbarked said:


ChrispenEvan said:

roughbarked said:

As to getting through this period? ….

yes

Well it is going to be difficult. Even for the Indian who wants to put 800 million young people to work.

and er, why am I supposed to be the one with suggestions?
We could all eat less meat, plant more trees, give ourselves work to do instead of play computer games and bash people.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 23:39:24
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1168634
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

roughbarked said:


ChrispenEvan said:

roughbarked said:

So overpopulation is killing off the problem? Or is there another definition?

how did you get that from my post?

Have they put a tag on what is causing the decline in fertility?

family planning programs appears to be one of the major causes.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 23:40:22
From: roughbarked
ID: 1168636
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

ChrispenEvan said:


roughbarked said:

ChrispenEvan said:

how did you get that from my post?

Have they put a tag on what is causing the decline in fertility?

family planning programs appears to be one of the major causes.

I was talking about fertility. They are different things.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 23:41:15
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1168637
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

roughbarked said:


ChrispenEvan said:

roughbarked said:

Have they put a tag on what is causing the decline in fertility?

family planning programs appears to be one of the major causes.

I was talking about fertility. They are different things.

yes. take the pill and that affects fertility.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 23:41:50
From: roughbarked
ID: 1168639
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

ChrispenEvan said:


roughbarked said:

ChrispenEvan said:

family planning programs appears to be one of the major causes.

I was talking about fertility. They are different things.

yes. take the pill and that affects fertility.

You are trying to pull my chain and you know it.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 23:44:17
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1168641
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

https://ourworldindata.org/fertility-rate#family-planning

section II.5 Family planning.

mentions contraceptives.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 23:45:23
From: roughbarked
ID: 1168643
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

ChrispenEvan said:


https://ourworldindata.org/fertility-rate#family-planning

section II.5 Family planning.

mentions contraceptives.

I was referring to the loss of fertility in males.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 23:48:16
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1168645
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

roughbarked said:


ChrispenEvan said:

https://ourworldindata.org/fertility-rate#family-planning

section II.5 Family planning.

mentions contraceptives.

I was referring to the loss of fertility in males.

does that have much of an impact?

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 23:49:41
From: roughbarked
ID: 1168646
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

ChrispenEvan said:


roughbarked said:

ChrispenEvan said:

https://ourworldindata.org/fertility-rate#family-planning

section II.5 Family planning.

mentions contraceptives.

I was referring to the loss of fertility in males.

does that have much of an impact?

I don’t really know yet(which is why I asked the question) but there has been a significant decrease in male fertility rates.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 23:52:30
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1168647
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

fertility rates are the measure of the number of children a woman has over her life. the site i linked to explain this definition. it also gives reasons. male fertility doesn’t get a mention.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 23:56:28
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1168648
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3253726/

Fertility and the Aging Male

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 23:58:09
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1168649
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-26/sperm-concentrations-in-western-men-declined-over-40yrs-study/8743020

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 23:58:22
From: roughbarked
ID: 1168650
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

ChrispenEvan said:


fertility rates are the measure of the number of children a woman has over her life. the site i linked to explain this definition. it also gives reasons. male fertility doesn’t get a mention.

sperm counts then?

Reply Quote

Date: 2/01/2018 23:58:45
From: roughbarked
ID: 1168651
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

ChrispenEvan said:


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3253726/

Fertility and the Aging Male

No. The decline was in young males.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/01/2018 00:00:07
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1168653
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

ChrispenEvan said:


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-26/sperm-concentrations-in-western-men-declined-over-40yrs-study/8743020

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/sperm-count-west-men-health-drop-60-per-cent-years-modern-life-a7859491.html

Reply Quote

Date: 3/01/2018 00:04:35
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1168654
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

ChrispenEvan said:


ChrispenEvan said:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-26/sperm-concentrations-in-western-men-declined-over-40yrs-study/8743020

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/sperm-count-west-men-health-drop-60-per-cent-years-modern-life-a7859491.html

so, going by those figures western men only are affected and the west already had a lower fertility rate in women.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/01/2018 00:08:00
From: roughbarked
ID: 1168656
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

ChrispenEvan said:


ChrispenEvan said:

ChrispenEvan said:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-26/sperm-concentrations-in-western-men-declined-over-40yrs-study/8743020

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/sperm-count-west-men-health-drop-60-per-cent-years-modern-life-a7859491.html

so, going by those figures western men only are affected and the west already had a lower fertility rate in women.

OK. I was under the impression world wide meant all men but if it is only worldwide western men then that could possibly account for all the coffee coloured people in the great big melting pot.

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Date: 3/01/2018 00:35:52
From: roughbarked
ID: 1168667
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

ChrispenEvan said:

how did you get that from my post?

Well isn’t it because of overpopulation that family planning programs were put in place?

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Date: 3/01/2018 00:39:33
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1168669
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

roughbarked said:


ChrispenEvan said:

ChrispenEvan said:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/sperm-count-west-men-health-drop-60-per-cent-years-modern-life-a7859491.html

so, going by those figures western men only are affected and the west already had a lower fertility rate in women.

OK. I was under the impression world wide meant all men but if it is only worldwide western men then that could possibly account for all the coffee coloured people in the great big melting pot.

*sings

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Date: 3/01/2018 00:42:34
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1168670
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

roughbarked said:

ChrispenEvan said:

how did you get that from my post?

Well isn’t it because of overpopulation that family planning programs were put in place?

well family planning didn’t start out for that reason. it was mainly to stop women dying in illegal abortions and death in childbirth. in the early days contraceptives were uncommon and unreliable. Plus there were family financial reasons.

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Date: 3/01/2018 00:46:06
From: roughbarked
ID: 1168674
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

sarahs mum said:


roughbarked said:

ChrispenEvan said:

so, going by those figures western men only are affected and the west already had a lower fertility rate in women.

OK. I was under the impression world wide meant all men but if it is only worldwide western men then that could possibly account for all the coffee coloured people in the great big melting pot.

*sings

:) Lyrics fill my head.

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Date: 3/01/2018 00:46:50
From: roughbarked
ID: 1168675
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

ChrispenEvan said:


roughbarked said:

ChrispenEvan said:

how did you get that from my post?

Well isn’t it because of overpopulation that family planning programs were put in place?

well family planning didn’t start out for that reason. it was mainly to stop women dying in illegal abortions and death in childbirth. in the early days contraceptives were uncommon and unreliable. Plus there were family financial reasons.

Yes but there are more incentives now.

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Date: 3/01/2018 00:48:21
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1168678
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

roughbarked said:


ChrispenEvan said:

roughbarked said:

Well isn’t it because of overpopulation that family planning programs were put in place?

well family planning didn’t start out for that reason. it was mainly to stop women dying in illegal abortions and death in childbirth. in the early days contraceptives were uncommon and unreliable. Plus there were family financial reasons.

Yes but there are more incentives now.

maybe, but those reasons are still the main goals of family planning, not reducing world population.

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Date: 3/01/2018 00:49:47
From: roughbarked
ID: 1168680
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

ChrispenEvan said:


roughbarked said:

ChrispenEvan said:

well family planning didn’t start out for that reason. it was mainly to stop women dying in illegal abortions and death in childbirth. in the early days contraceptives were uncommon and unreliable. Plus there were family financial reasons.

Yes but there are more incentives now.

maybe, but those reasons are still the main goals of family planning, not reducing world population.

Yes but you are saying that this is reducing world population. Or you were.

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Date: 3/01/2018 00:53:10
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1168686
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

roughbarked said:


ChrispenEvan said:

roughbarked said:

Yes but there are more incentives now.

maybe, but those reasons are still the main goals of family planning, not reducing world population.

Yes but you are saying that this is reducing world population. Or you were.

it is. but that is not the reason it is implemented. it is more to do with women’s health and reducing the world’s population is an added benefit. can you imagine going to women in a poor area and just telling them not to have so many kids because the world doesn’t need them?

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Date: 3/01/2018 00:55:09
From: roughbarked
ID: 1168689
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

ChrispenEvan said:


roughbarked said:

ChrispenEvan said:

maybe, but those reasons are still the main goals of family planning, not reducing world population.

Yes but you are saying that this is reducing world population. Or you were.

it is. but that is not the reason it is implemented. it is more to do with women’s health and reducing the world’s population is an added benefit. can you imagine going to women in a poor area and just telling them not to have so many kids because the world doesn’t need them?

ha ha. Yes. Well you do have a point there.
But the greatest impact of overpopulation at least in the production area, is upon the females.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/01/2018 22:58:01
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1169211
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

Tau.Neutrino said:


Beyond Electricity.

Thoughts?

What will replace the current electricity system we have?

Some kind of pure superconducting plasma?

Something less ambitious?

A little more thought.

If photons in optic fibres (photonics) replace electrons in wires (electricity) then the photons don’t have to be in the visible range. So what EM frequency would be best?

Higher frequencies carry more energy. X-rays tend to be scattered too easily by atomic spacings. Ultraviolet would require special elements that don’t adsorb photons by jumping electrons up to a higher quantum levels – not impossible.

But glass doesn’t do so well for UV transmission. What about a small micron diameter vacuum tube with mirrored inner surface for transmitting EM frequencies other than in the visible range.

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Date: 3/01/2018 23:09:48
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1169213
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

For UV near the visible range we have “The recent fabrication of rare earth-doped fluoro-zirconate (ZBLAN) glass fiber has spurred the development of a family of visible and ultraviolet fiber lasers pumped by upconversion. The performance of CW room temperature devices demonstrated to date is reviewed with emphasis on the recently reported Nd-doped ZBLAN fiber laser operating in the ultraviolet at 381 nm.”

But that’s still glass fibre. I’m thinking more like this type of holey fibre. This may work at shorter wavelengths.

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Date: 3/01/2018 23:15:02
From: sibeen
ID: 1169214
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

mollwollfumble said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Beyond Electricity.

Thoughts?

What will replace the current electricity system we have?

Some kind of pure superconducting plasma?

Something less ambitious?

A little more thought.

If photons in optic fibres (photonics) replace electrons in wires (electricity) then the photons don’t have to be in the visible range. So what EM frequency would be best?

Higher frequencies carry more energy. X-rays tend to be scattered too easily by atomic spacings. Ultraviolet would require special elements that don’t adsorb photons by jumping electrons up to a higher quantum levels – not impossible.

But glass doesn’t do so well for UV transmission. What about a small micron diameter vacuum tube with mirrored inner surface for transmitting EM frequencies other than in the visible range.

I think I’ll stick with wire for the foreseeable* future.






































*Where foreseeable probably means up until the heat death of the universe.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2018 01:50:43
From: transition
ID: 1169218
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

I guess one could instead take beyond electricity to mean using less of it, it’s not exactly a modest electrification that’s fueling human civilization.

I’m thinking some better use of energy gradients (produced very local to wherever put to work) , thermal energy gradients(IR, and visible light), the sun’s energy, day/night cycles for example.

Fairly much all of life exploits energy gradients, amongst it, part of it

Probably spawned life (abiogenesis), and drove evolution.

So, if I thought outside my electrified, ideological view of life, I might return for a moment to organic life.

Sever the umbilical cord, the grid, the gadgets etc, remind myself of the switch flickers paradise, the mirage.

Reminding myself there is another grid, that’s organic, riding the thermal gradients of past and present, and those gradients over time embedded order, structure. I’m thinkng Prigogene, maybe, without looking it up. Dissipative structures.

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Date: 4/01/2018 07:07:18
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1169232
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

transition said:


I guess one could instead take beyond electricity to mean using less of it, it’s not exactly a modest electrification that’s fueling human civilization.

I’m thinking some better use of energy gradients (produced very local to wherever put to work) , thermal energy gradients(IR, and visible light), the sun’s energy, day/night cycles for example.

Fairly much all of life exploits energy gradients, amongst it, part of it

Probably spawned life (abiogenesis), and drove evolution.

So, if I thought outside my electrified, ideological view of life, I might return for a moment to organic life.

Sever the umbilical cord, the grid, the gadgets etc, remind myself of the switch flickers paradise, the mirage.

Reminding myself there is another grid, that’s organic, riding the thermal gradients of past and present, and those gradients over time embedded order, structure. I’m thinkng Prigogene, maybe, without looking it up. Dissipative structures.

Could do that I suppose.

Or could just put a price on electricity that made people less inclined to waste it.

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Date: 4/01/2018 07:48:01
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1169234
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

The Rev Dodgson said:


transition said:

I guess one could instead take beyond electricity to mean using less of it, it’s not exactly a modest electrification that’s fueling human civilization.

I’m thinking some better use of energy gradients (produced very local to wherever put to work) , thermal energy gradients(IR, and visible light), the sun’s energy, day/night cycles for example.

Fairly much all of life exploits energy gradients, amongst it, part of it

Probably spawned life (abiogenesis), and drove evolution.

So, if I thought outside my electrified, ideological view of life, I might return for a moment to organic life.

Sever the umbilical cord, the grid, the gadgets etc, remind myself of the switch flickers paradise, the mirage.

Reminding myself there is another grid, that’s organic, riding the thermal gradients of past and present, and those gradients over time embedded order, structure. I’m thinkng Prigogene, maybe, without looking it up. Dissipative structures.

Could do that I suppose.

Or could just put a price on electricity that made people less inclined to waste it.

Or could just generate it using hydrogen bombs.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2018 08:48:19
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1169244
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

mollwollfumble said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

I guess one could instead take beyond electricity to mean using less of it, it’s not exactly a modest electrification that’s fueling human civilization.

I’m thinking some better use of energy gradients (produced very local to wherever put to work) , thermal energy gradients(IR, and visible light), the sun’s energy, day/night cycles for example.

Fairly much all of life exploits energy gradients, amongst it, part of it

Probably spawned life (abiogenesis), and drove evolution.

So, if I thought outside my electrified, ideological view of life, I might return for a moment to organic life.

Sever the umbilical cord, the grid, the gadgets etc, remind myself of the switch flickers paradise, the mirage.

Reminding myself there is another grid, that’s organic, riding the thermal gradients of past and present, and those gradients over time embedded order, structure. I’m thinkng Prigogene, maybe, without looking it up. Dissipative structures.

Could do that I suppose.

Or could just put a price on electricity that made people less inclined to waste it.

Or could just generate it using hydrogen bombs.

More seriously, asking people not to use electricity is like asking them not to use the sewer system. Alternatives exist, but are not desirable.

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Date: 4/01/2018 10:13:39
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1169263
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

mollwollfumble said:


mollwollfumble said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Could do that I suppose.

Or could just put a price on electricity that made people less inclined to waste it.

Or could just generate it using hydrogen bombs.

More seriously, asking people not to use electricity is like asking them not to use the sewer system. Alternatives exist, but are not desirable.

I think you’ll find that I didn’t suggest that people should be asked not to use electricity.

I suggested that it should be priced to discourage wastage, which implies that people will continue to use it.

All that is required is that the price of electricity should recognise all costs in generating and delivering it, including the best estimate of future costs resulting from mining, climate change, long term waste storage, and the like.

Failure to do that does not make any sense at all.

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Date: 4/01/2018 10:16:25
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1169267
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

The Rev Dodgson said:

All that is required is that the price of electricity should recognise all costs in generating and delivering it, including the best estimate of future costs resulting from mining, climate change, long term waste storage, and the like.

You left out “…and provide sufficient return to energy-company shareholders as to safeguard the executives’ bonuses”.

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Date: 4/01/2018 10:18:26
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1169270
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

captain_spalding said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

All that is required is that the price of electricity should recognise all costs in generating and delivering it, including the best estimate of future costs resulting from mining, climate change, long term waste storage, and the like.

You left out “…and provide sufficient return to energy-company shareholders as to safeguard the executives’ bonuses”.

That’s part of the cost of generating and delivering.

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Date: 4/01/2018 10:23:52
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1169275
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

The Rev Dodgson said:


captain_spalding said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

All that is required is that the price of electricity should recognise all costs in generating and delivering it, including the best estimate of future costs resulting from mining, climate change, long term waste storage, and the like.

You left out “…and provide sufficient return to energy-company shareholders as to safeguard the executives’ bonuses”.

That’s part of the cost of generating and delivering.

And the part which is subject entirely to the narcissistic whims of the executive caste.

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Date: 4/01/2018 10:30:14
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1169277
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

Here’s some more of my favourite pics of Barnaby holding things that look smarter than he does:

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Date: 4/01/2018 10:43:48
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1169283
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

captain_spalding said:


Here’s some more of my favourite pics of Barnaby holding things that look smarter than he does:

That’s when they first became suspicious that he might be a kiwi.

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Date: 4/01/2018 11:23:26
From: AwesomeO
ID: 1169295
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

captain_spalding said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

captain_spalding said:

You left out “…and provide sufficient return to energy-company shareholders as to safeguard the executives’ bonuses”.

That’s part of the cost of generating and delivering.

And the part which is subject entirely to the narcissistic whims of the executive caste.

There is an article in the ABC opinion pages on the breakdown of electricity costs and the cause of high prices.

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Date: 4/01/2018 11:26:44
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1169297
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

AwesomeO said:


captain_spalding said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

That’s part of the cost of generating and delivering.

And the part which is subject entirely to the narcissistic whims of the executive caste.

There is an article in the ABC opinion pages on the breakdown of electricity costs and the cause of high prices.

I’d rather have one computer that does all the billing for all of Australia, not hundreds of these billing companies with all their bloat costs

Chew a cigar on that one fat greddy CEO’s.

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Date: 4/01/2018 13:48:18
From: transition
ID: 1169394
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

>Or could just put a price on electricity that made people less inclined to waste it.

yes, I was thinking that’d be quite expensive if present climate dysruption (the total of, including recent history), and loss of species diversity and habitat etc were factored into costs.

anyway, my point earlier was organic life is an energy conversion and transport system.

and, that it’s possible to say after electricity (grid power dominance), organic life would likely persist, doing as it always has done.

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Date: 4/01/2018 22:12:55
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1169628
Subject: re: Beyond Electricity

my home is powered by 100 percent wishful thinking

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