Electric cars are breaking our roads, here’s how

In 2018, Australia’s roads are plagued with problems: the long-term decline in the road death toll has slowed, congestion is tipped to increase and long commutes are linked to poor mental health.

more…

2 main problems

Electric cars are not paying fuel tax.

Electric cars need their own electric energy meters

Congestion, London is charging car drivers $20 to drive there.

I think wifi control of cars is the answer to congestion, then you dont get that wave effect that slows down traffic.

and rather than a central computer that can fail, have many micro computers along the routes.

‘Electric cars are not paying fuel tax.’

Governments just haven’t thought of a way to tax them yet – but, they will.

>>>I think wifi control of cars is the answer to congestion, then you dont get that wave effect that slows down traffic.

and rather than a central computer that can fail, have many micro computers along the routes.

Extending that idea further,

Everyone puts in their destination on a GPS map app, then the city wifi traffic control system does the rest, guides every car to its destination.

Much more efficient, and less frustrating.

No one can speed either.

Tau.Neutrino said:

In 2018, Australia’s roads are plagued with problems: the long-term decline in the road death toll has slowed.

Congestion, London is charging car drivers $20 to drive there.

Yeah, fucking London. I drove there – once.

The road toll is proportional to population, and that’s still increasing.

Also, I have a heck of a lot more to say about reducing the number of road accidents.

Local governments can install parking meters that have electric charging along shopping curbs and in car parks and shopping centers.

Car is charged for parking and for charging and taxed.

Get a meter company to make the new meters.

Electric cars are already inconvenient, if you make them expensive to run, (they are already expensive to buy) you might kill a market you are trying to encourage. And to preempt some, the government could of course offer financial incentives which is the way forward if you like wasteful and contradictory government expenditure.

Dammit, it’s the 21st century! We need, and should have by now, these:

Maintaining roads? Who needs to?

>>>I think wifi control of cars is the answer to congestion, then you dont get that wave effect that slows down traffic.

and rather than a central computer that can fail, have many micro computers along the routes.

Someone should model the existing traffic system, against a wifi controlled city road system, to see the improvement.

Cptn S is right.. let’s take to the sky

p

Ian said:

Cptn S is right.. let’s take to the sky

p

how is the government supposed to be able to tax that?

Arts said:

Ian said:

Cptn S is right.. let’s take to the sky

p

how is the government supposed to be able to tax that?

Exactly ;

Ian said:

Arts said:

Ian said:

Cptn S is right.. let’s take to the sky

p

how is the government supposed to be able to tax that?

Exactly ;

I wonder if he’s an overbearing parent

Arts said:

Ian said:

Cptn S is right.. let’s take to the sky

how is the government supposed to be able to tax that?

Mate, the only reason they’re not axing every breath you take is because they have yet developed a suitable meter.

captain_spalding said:

Arts said:

Ian said:

Cptn S is right.. let’s take to the sky

how is the government supposed to be able to tax that?

Mate, the only reason they’re not axing every breath you take is because they have yet developed a suitable meter.

Correction:

Mate, the only reason they’re not taxing every breath you take is because they haven’t yet developed a suitable meter.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Electric cars are breaking our roads, here’s how

In 2018, Australia’s roads are plagued with problems: the long-term decline in the road death toll has slowed, congestion is tipped to increase and long commutes are linked to poor mental health.

more…

2 main problems

Electric cars are not paying fuel tax.

Electric cars need their own electric energy meters

Congestion, London is charging car drivers $20 to drive there.

I think wifi control of cars is the answer to congestion, then you dont get that wave effect that slows down traffic.

and rather than a central computer that can fail, have many micro computers along the routes.

Articles like that really give me the shits.

How about they look at ways of reducing GHG emissions most efficiently, rather than publishing a beat-up about electric cars being only for the rich?

The Rev Dodgson said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Electric cars are breaking our roads, here’s how

In 2018, Australia’s roads are plagued with problems: the long-term decline in the road death toll has slowed, congestion is tipped to increase and long commutes are linked to poor mental health.

more…

2 main problems

Electric cars are not paying fuel tax.

Electric cars need their own electric energy meters

Congestion, London is charging car drivers $20 to drive there.

I think wifi control of cars is the answer to congestion, then you dont get that wave effect that slows down traffic.

and rather than a central computer that can fail, have many micro computers along the routes.

Articles like that really give me the shits.

How about they look at ways of reducing GHG emissions most efficiently, rather than publishing a beat-up about electric cars being only for the rich?

Yes, the thrust of the article is particularly lame.

———————

Tax breaks and free access to bus lanes should be used to help reverse Australia’s poor uptake of electric vehicles, a new report has said.

Australians remain deeply reluctant to buy electric cars, which accounted for just 0.1% of new car sales in 2015. Australia is increasingly falling behind other countries, particularly in Europe, where sales of electric cars represented 1.2% of new European Union car sales in the same year…

“Electric vehicles promise benefits to both consumers and governments,” the report said. “Nonetheless, the market for electric vehicles remains underdeveloped and progress has been slow.

“Australia’s electric vehicle market is, by international standards, a laggard. This is in no small part due to a lack of public investment in establishing the conditions necessary for growth.”

The Australia Institute said it had conducted its own survey showing majority support for policy incentives to encourage the uptake of electric vehicles.

The report recommends exempting electric vehicles from the luxury car tax, which applies to more expensive types of electric cars, including the Tesla Model S. It also calls for tax breaks to build a “visible, densely distributed network” of charging stations, to ease consumer concerns about being left stranded with a flat battery.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/oct/13/australia-lagging-on-electric-cars-and-tax-breaks-needed-to-drive-demand-report

There’s been very little acceptance of electric cars in Australia anyway. There have been 90000 Nissan Leafs sold in the USA, 12000 in the UK, 500 in Australia. 92000 Tesla Model S in the USA, 4000 in the UK, 1300 in Australia. Altogether there are fewer than 3000 plug in electric vehicles on Australia’s roads. They aren’t breaking anything.

I am not sure I should be alarmed at the slow uptake of electric cars in Australia. After all much of the electricity they need to charge the batteries will still come from fossil fuels.

Is it because people think you need an extension cord plugged into the electric car to get it to run plus the hassle of it getting tangled and have to wind it up when you are finished

Cymek said:

Is it because people think you need an extension cord plugged into the electric car to get it to run plus the hassle of it getting tangled and have to wind it up when you are finished

Design should make things easier, I was reading a review of, may have been a leaf, and the writer said he defied anyone to return the cable to the provided recess in the car. Packed nicely at the factory, never used again.

Another problem is there is still no standard on the coupling which makes it expensive for councils and parking providers to introduce the facilities.

AwesomeO said:

Cymek said:

Is it because people think you need an extension cord plugged into the electric car to get it to run plus the hassle of it getting tangled and have to wind it up when you are finished

Design should make things easier, I was reading a review of, may have been a leaf, and the writer said he defied anyone to return the cable to the provided recess in the car. Packed nicely at the factory, never used again.

Another problem is there is still no standard on the coupling which makes it expensive for councils and parking providers to introduce the facilities.

My cynical mind reckons they don’t want them easy to use or to look good, they make the cars look retarded, fossil fuel industry stooges..

AwesomeO said:

Cymek said:

Is it because people think you need an extension cord plugged into the electric car to get it to run plus the hassle of it getting tangled and have to wind it up when you are finished

Design should make things easier, I was reading a review of, may have been a leaf, and the writer said he defied anyone to return the cable to the provided recess in the car. Packed nicely at the factory, never used again.

Another problem is there is still no standard on the coupling which makes it expensive for councils and parking providers to introduce the facilities.

Well the computer industry can achieve the latter sort of thing. USB for example.

poikilotherm said:

AwesomeO said:

Cymek said:

Is it because people think you need an extension cord plugged into the electric car to get it to run plus the hassle of it getting tangled and have to wind it up when you are finished

Design should make things easier, I was reading a review of, may have been a leaf, and the writer said he defied anyone to return the cable to the provided recess in the car. Packed nicely at the factory, never used again.

Another problem is there is still no standard on the coupling which makes it expensive for councils and parking providers to introduce the facilities.

My cynical mind reckons they don’t want them easy to use or to look good, they make the cars look retarded, fossil fuel industry stooges..

My cynical mind thinks they look different because if you pay extra you want people to know it is powered by smug.

I’d assume they are for the rich as they are at present expensive to design and build, but as the technology processes this would drop significantly.

poikilotherm said:

AwesomeO said:

Cymek said:

Is it because people think you need an extension cord plugged into the electric car to get it to run plus the hassle of it getting tangled and have to wind it up when you are finished

Design should make things easier, I was reading a review of, may have been a leaf, and the writer said he defied anyone to return the cable to the provided recess in the car. Packed nicely at the factory, never used again.

Another problem is there is still no standard on the coupling which makes it expensive for councils and parking providers to introduce the facilities.

My cynical mind reckons they don’t want them easy to use or to look good, they make the cars look retarded, fossil fuel industry stooges..

The thing is … it’s really only in Australia that uptake has been poor, among OECD countries.

My local shops have a couple of recharge bays but I have no idea of the cost or type.

dv said:

poikilotherm said:

AwesomeO said:

Design should make things easier, I was reading a review of, may have been a leaf, and the writer said he defied anyone to return the cable to the provided recess in the car. Packed nicely at the factory, never used again.

Another problem is there is still no standard on the coupling which makes it expensive for councils and parking providers to introduce the facilities.

My cynical mind reckons they don’t want them easy to use or to look good, they make the cars look retarded, fossil fuel industry stooges..

The thing is … it’s really only in Australia that uptake has been poor, among OECD countries.

Many overseas countries provide incentives. This is another controvery for Tesla, which it is problematic that they are running at a profit, or that they can sell the cars without buyers recieving government subsidies.

dv said:

poikilotherm said:

AwesomeO said:

Design should make things easier, I was reading a review of, may have been a leaf, and the writer said he defied anyone to return the cable to the provided recess in the car. Packed nicely at the factory, never used again.

Another problem is there is still no standard on the coupling which makes it expensive for councils and parking providers to introduce the facilities.

My cynical mind reckons they don’t want them easy to use or to look good, they make the cars look retarded, fossil fuel industry stooges..

The thing is … it’s really only in Australia that uptake has been poor, among OECD countries.

subsidies in other countries?

The Rev Dodgson said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Electric cars are breaking our roads, here’s how

In 2018, Australia’s roads are plagued with problems: the long-term decline in the road death toll has slowed, congestion is tipped to increase and long commutes are linked to poor mental health.

more…

2 main problems

Electric cars are not paying fuel tax.

Electric cars need their own electric energy meters

Congestion, London is charging car drivers $20 to drive there.

I think wifi control of cars is the answer to congestion, then you dont get that wave effect that slows down traffic.

and rather than a central computer that can fail, have many micro computers along the routes.

Articles like that really give me the shits.

How about they look at ways of reducing GHG emissions most efficiently, rather than publishing a beat-up about electric cars being only for the rich?

Using a wifi controlled congestion system would improve traffic flow, reducing emissions, by having petrol gas / diesel / gas vehicles getting to their destination faster, especially with a city wide synchronised traffic lighting system

There is nothing new about synchronised traffic lighting systems and we know they work well so why not incorporate them on all city roads?

A wifi controlled speed system would minimize or even stop one car causing slow down waves.

Groups of cars would travel in waves or continuous stream, their speeds monitored and adjusted by the road computers, different to one car creating a wave by slowing down others.

Cars would accelerate and brake at the speed dictated by the road computers.

This wifi system could be incorporated into cruise controls using real time information and in the future use predicative technologies.

For really congested roads that is.

You can reduce emissions be having cars get to their destination much more quickly using a wifi controlled traffic system.

You can reduce emissions by by having cars not stop at any traffic light.

You can reduce emissions by creating stricter engine standards.

You can reduce local emissions by driving an electric car, thus improving air quality in the city areas.

Creating a clean air tax benefit for driving an electric car into the city.

Creating a dirty air tax for fossil fuel cars for cars driving into the city.

Must be heaps of other ways.

Create a tax for driving older cars, drivers have an option to update the engine to a newer design avoiding the old engine tax.

Tau.Neutrino said:

You can reduce emissions be having cars get to their destination much more quickly using a wifi controlled traffic system.

You can reduce emissions by by having cars not stop at any traffic light.

You can reduce emissions by creating stricter engine standards.

You can reduce local emissions by driving an electric car, thus improving air quality in the city areas.

Creating a clean air tax benefit for driving an electric car into the city.

Creating a dirty air tax for fossil fuel cars for cars driving into the city.

Must be heaps of other ways.

Create a tax for driving older cars, drivers have an option to update the engine to a newer design avoiding the old engine tax.

Look at efficiency on how to improve things.

Do people really need a 4 wheel drive truck to drive to work and back for only 1 person?

Do people really need, 5L 4L V8’s for shopping?

Summer Drum is doing this right now, and overseas countries have big subsidies according to th talking head.

AwesomeO said:

Summer Drum is doing this right now, and overseas countries have big subsidies according to th talking head.

How could they possibly have? Aren’t subsidies contrary to the ‘level playing field’ that our government so lovingly embraces?

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

You can reduce emissions be having cars get to their destination much more quickly using a wifi controlled traffic system.

You can reduce emissions by by having cars not stop at any traffic light.

You can reduce emissions by creating stricter engine standards.

You can reduce local emissions by driving an electric car, thus improving air quality in the city areas.

Creating a clean air tax benefit for driving an electric car into the city.

Creating a dirty air tax for fossil fuel cars for cars driving into the city.

Must be heaps of other ways.

Create a tax for driving older cars, drivers have an option to update the engine to a newer design avoiding the old engine tax.

Look at efficiency on how to improve things.

Do people really need a 4 wheel drive truck to drive to work and back for only 1 person?

Do people really need, 5L 4L V8’s for shopping?

Don’t oppress me, when I build my garage I am getting a six litre V8.

Discussion on The Drum cited a study in Lisbon that found that once we have autonomous cars we’ll only need one-tenth the total amount to meet our transport needs. Hooly it will be a big transition.

Phil_C said:

Discussion on The Drum cited a study in Lisbon that found that once we have autonomous cars we’ll only need one-tenth the total amount to meet our transport needs. Hooly it will be a big transition.

It might make sense to buy communal cars and have it all automated to pick numerous people up at scheduled times.
I did an online survey about something along these lines, with proposal for shared costs, etc

AwesomeO said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

You can reduce emissions be having cars get to their destination much more quickly using a wifi controlled traffic system.

You can reduce emissions by by having cars not stop at any traffic light.

You can reduce emissions by creating stricter engine standards.

You can reduce local emissions by driving an electric car, thus improving air quality in the city areas.

Creating a clean air tax benefit for driving an electric car into the city.

Creating a dirty air tax for fossil fuel cars for cars driving into the city.

Must be heaps of other ways.

Create a tax for driving older cars, drivers have an option to update the engine to a newer design avoiding the old engine tax.

Look at efficiency on how to improve things.

Do people really need a 4 wheel drive truck to drive to work and back for only 1 person?

Do people really need, 5L 4L V8’s for shopping?

Don’t oppress me, when I build my garage I am getting a six litre V8.

The government will oppress you for using a 6L V8 with an added “environment tax” and an “I dont care tax” at “every fill”.

The government will oppress you by fitting petrol bowsers with engine model ID technology.

:)

Cymek said:

Phil_C said:

Discussion on The Drum cited a study in Lisbon that found that once we have autonomous cars we’ll only need one-tenth the total amount to meet our transport needs. Hooly it will be a big transition.

It might make sense to buy communal cars and have it all automated to pick numerous people up at scheduled times.
I did an online survey about something along these lines, with proposal for shared costs, etc

It may be true for the younger generation, there is evidence they don’t care too much about cars. But there is still a car culture even among the younger generation that will prize ownership.

I see it a bit like the telecommuting predictions, didn’t really pan out despite all the advantages, didn’t take account of human behaviour.

Even now you can get away without owning a car but people prefer them, and their own property kept as they like to communal transport.

People driving electric cars are not being taxed for fuel.

So are electric cars cheaper to drive in that aspect?

and with No tax oppression.

Will ending fossil fuel for cars around 2040 be progressive instead of a sudden cut off point?

Someone in another thread pointed out that people only need a 1.3 L engine, how does that figure translate over to an electric motor?

Tau.Neutrino said:

Someone in another thread pointed out that people only need a 1.3 L engine, how does that figure translate over to an electric motor?

No straight comparison as electric motors come in different powers as well, and some have an electric motor at the gearbox, some front only, some all four wheels so multiple electric engines.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Someone in another thread pointed out that people only need a 1.3 L engine, how does that figure translate over to an electric motor?

if modest 120HP be same as 90KW+

transition said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Someone in another thread pointed out that people only need a 1.3 L engine, how does that figure translate over to an electric motor?

if modest 120HP be same as 90KW+

1.3L unlikely be 120HP, but the conversion’s probably right

transition said:

transition said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Someone in another thread pointed out that people only need a 1.3 L engine, how does that figure translate over to an electric motor?

if modest 120HP be same as 90KW+

1.3L unlikely be 120HP, but the conversion’s probably right

Didn’t make sense to me unless the + signifies something, IC cars are rated in KW as well.

horsepower = 720 Watts.

An icb knocks out it’s kws continuously as long as it has fuel.
It can pump out the same kws at the end of it’s journey as it could at the start.
Not so the batter powered car.

Peak Warming Man said:

An icb knocks out it’s kws continuously as long as it has fuel.
It can pump out the same kws at the end of it’s journey as it could at the start.
Not so the batter powered car.

plus you can’t push start a batter powered one.

ChrispenEvan said:

Peak Warming Man said:

An icb knocks out it’s kws continuously as long as it has fuel.
It can pump out the same kws at the end of it’s journey as it could at the start.
Not so the batter powered car.

plus you can’t push start a batter powered one.

or an auto ICE for that matter.

ChrispenEvan said:

Peak Warming Man said:

An icb knocks out it’s kws continuously as long as it has fuel.
It can pump out the same kws at the end of it’s journey as it could at the start.
Not so the batter powered car.

plus you can’t push start a batter powered one.

Batter powered cars would need a lot of eggs, which means a lot more battery hens.

Peak Warming Man said:

An icb knocks out it’s kws continuously as long as it has fuel.
It can pump out the same kws at the end of it’s journey as it could at the start.
Not so the batter powered car.

And this is why we never had battery powered trains because they could never compete with diesel trains.
However electric trains with a constant sourcr of energy from overhead wires can compete quite nicely with diesel trains.
Expanding that further we’re wasting our time with battery powered cars, I’ll have no truck with them.

Peak Warming Man said:

Peak Warming Man said:

An icb knocks out it’s kws continuously as long as it has fuel.
It can pump out the same kws at the end of it’s journey as it could at the start.
Not so the batter powered car.

And this is why we never had battery powered trains because they could never compete with diesel trains.
However electric trains with a constant sourcr of energy from overhead wires can compete quite nicely with diesel trains.
Expanding that further we’re wasting our time with battery powered cars, I’ll have no truck with them.

And the diesel electric… A hybrid.

ChrispenEvan said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Peak Warming Man said:

An icb knocks out it’s kws continuously as long as it has fuel.
It can pump out the same kws at the end of it’s journey as it could at the start.
Not so the batter powered car.

plus you can’t push start a batter powered one.

or an auto ICE for that matter.

I think that maybe you can – but, you have to be able to push it at something like 30 kmh.

Not something that most people can expect from one o two mates/by-standers.

AwesomeO said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Peak Warming Man said:

An icb knocks out it’s kws continuously as long as it has fuel.
It can pump out the same kws at the end of it’s journey as it could at the start.
Not so the batter powered car.

And this is why we never had battery powered trains because they could never compete with diesel trains.
However electric trains with a constant sourcr of energy from overhead wires can compete quite nicely with diesel trains.
Expanding that further we’re wasting our time with battery powered cars, I’ll have no truck with them.

And the diesel electric… A hybrid.

I’ve been fond of the idea of diesel-electric trucks for a while. Combine them with extra power off the hot gas exhaust.

Of course, I mean ultra-low-sulphur diesel. Just checking web and was surprised to see that Australia sulphur content of diesel is now as good as EU/America if not better.
2002 – 500 ppm
2006 – 50 ppm
2009 – 10 ppm

So that’s why I no longer suffer from sore eyes when standing near a truck. Parts of the former USSR still allow 5000 ppm sulphur in diesel.

mollwollfumble said:

AwesomeO said:

Peak Warming Man said:

And this is why we never had battery powered trains because they could never compete with diesel trains.
However electric trains with a constant sourcr of energy from overhead wires can compete quite nicely with diesel trains.
Expanding that further we’re wasting our time with battery powered cars, I’ll have no truck with them.

And the diesel electric… A hybrid.

I’ve been fond of the idea of diesel-electric trucks for a while. Combine them with extra power off the hot gas exhaust.

Of course, I mean ultra-low-sulphur diesel. Just checking web and was surprised to see that Australia sulphur content of diesel is now as good as EU/America if not better.
2002 – 500 ppm
2006 – 50 ppm
2009 – 10 ppm

So that’s why I no longer suffer from sore eyes when standing near a truck. Parts of the former USSR still allow 5000 ppm sulphur in diesel.

… and cruise liners (at least in Sydney) can have as much sulphur as they want.