Date: 12/02/2018 11:47:20
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1187365
Subject: What Fate for Mungo Man?

First a skull, then a torso and eventually an entire skeleton emerged from the sands of south-west New South Wales.

When the bones of Australia’s oldest and most complete human were unearthed in the 1970s it rewrote history.

Dubbed Mungo Man after the dried-up lake basin where he was found, the skeleton dates back about 42,000 years.

But his removal from his burial site to a Canberra university 43 years ago caused his traditional owners great angst.

He’s now been returned to his country, but there’s a fresh dilemma to be resolved: Should Mungo Man be interred forever or should his remains still be accessible to science?

It’s a fraught question which goes to the heart of who owns the rights to access Mungo Man’s history.

Next month, traditional owners of the Willandra Lakes world heritage region — the Mutthi Mutthi, Ngyiampaa and Paakantyi/Barkandji peoples — will meet to begin discussions on his ultimate resting place.

“My preferred option is to bury him and put a nice plaque on him, rather than have him lying in a box waiting for someone to come and poke him again,” Ngyiampaa elder Roy Kennedy said, adding researchers “have had him long enough”.

But many scientists fear burying Mungo Man will close off any chance of future research.

“Future techniques may become available that will tell us so much more about the story of Mungo Man,” said Dr Jim Bowler, the geologist who found the skeleton.

“The prospect of possible future access must be resolved.”

Full report

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Date: 12/02/2018 11:50:03
From: Rule 303
ID: 1187367
Subject: re: What Fate for Mungo Man?

Can’t they just keep a leg bone, or something?

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Date: 12/02/2018 12:07:44
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1187368
Subject: re: What Fate for Mungo Man?

“…the skeleton dates back about 42,000 years.”

“…Ngyiampaa elder Roy Kennedy said, adding researchers “have had him long enough”.”

Surely he’s already been buried long enough?

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Date: 12/02/2018 12:12:31
From: Cymek
ID: 1187369
Subject: re: What Fate for Mungo Man?

Replace it with a replica and keep the real skeleton

Reply Quote

Date: 12/02/2018 12:17:07
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1187371
Subject: re: What Fate for Mungo Man?

Cymek said:


Replace it with a replica and keep the real skeleton

It was all that i had in the cupboard.

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Date: 12/02/2018 12:19:28
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1187373
Subject: re: What Fate for Mungo Man?

I wonder what Mungo man would have wanted?

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Date: 12/02/2018 15:35:25
From: Tamb
ID: 1187445
Subject: re: What Fate for Mungo Man?

Tau.Neutrino said:


I wonder what Mungo man would have wanted?

Religious beliefs getting in the way again.
He’s dead people.

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Date: 12/02/2018 15:41:13
From: Cymek
ID: 1187449
Subject: re: What Fate for Mungo Man?

Tamb said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

I wonder what Mungo man would have wanted?

Religious beliefs getting in the way again.
He’s dead people.

I suppose religious belief scorn doesn’t extend to your countries native population as it come across as offensive even if silly

Reply Quote

Date: 12/02/2018 15:45:54
From: Tamb
ID: 1187451
Subject: re: What Fate for Mungo Man?

Cymek said:


Tamb said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

I wonder what Mungo man would have wanted?

Religious beliefs getting in the way again.
He’s dead people.

I suppose religious belief scorn doesn’t extend to your countries native population as it come across as offensive even if silly

After 42000 years he’s just scientific. Nothing to do with native or otherwise.
Maybe they don’t want too much study done as it might turn out that he’s not aboriginal.

Reply Quote

Date: 12/02/2018 15:47:58
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1187452
Subject: re: What Fate for Mungo Man?

Tamb said:


Cymek said:

Tamb said:

Religious beliefs getting in the way again.
He’s dead people.

I suppose religious belief scorn doesn’t extend to your countries native population as it come across as offensive even if silly

After 42000 years he’s just scientific. Nothing to do with native or otherwise.
Maybe they don’t want too much study done as it might turn out that he’s not aboriginal.

The British really did get here first.

Reply Quote

Date: 12/02/2018 15:49:01
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1187454
Subject: re: What Fate for Mungo Man?

Cymek said:


Tamb said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

I wonder what Mungo man would have wanted?

Religious beliefs getting in the way again.
He’s dead people.

I suppose religious belief scorn doesn’t extend to your countries native population as it come across as offensive even if silly

Culture might be a better word, rather than religious.

Reply Quote

Date: 12/02/2018 15:49:05
From: party_pants
ID: 1187455
Subject: re: What Fate for Mungo Man?

Cymek said:


Tamb said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

I wonder what Mungo man would have wanted?

Religious beliefs getting in the way again.
He’s dead people.

I suppose religious belief scorn doesn’t extend to your countries native population as it come across as offensive even if silly

I am perfectly happy to disregard native population beliefs just as much as I disregard other religions.

Reply Quote

Date: 12/02/2018 15:49:18
From: Tamb
ID: 1187456
Subject: re: What Fate for Mungo Man?

PermeateFree said:


Tamb said:

Cymek said:

I suppose religious belief scorn doesn’t extend to your countries native population as it come across as offensive even if silly

After 42000 years he’s just scientific. Nothing to do with native or otherwise.
Maybe they don’t want too much study done as it might turn out that he’s not aboriginal.

The British really did get here first.

Martians.

Reply Quote

Date: 12/02/2018 15:49:35
From: poikilotherm
ID: 1187457
Subject: re: What Fate for Mungo Man?

Tamb said:


Cymek said:

Tamb said:

Religious beliefs getting in the way again.
He’s dead people.

I suppose religious belief scorn doesn’t extend to your countries native population as it come across as offensive even if silly

After 42000 years he’s just scientific. Nothing to do with native or otherwise.
Maybe they don’t want too much study done as it might turn out that he’s not aboriginal.

By definition he is aboriginal…unless from outer space.

Reply Quote

Date: 12/02/2018 15:50:48
From: Cymek
ID: 1187459
Subject: re: What Fate for Mungo Man?

PermeateFree said:


Cymek said:

Tamb said:

Religious beliefs getting in the way again.
He’s dead people.

I suppose religious belief scorn doesn’t extend to your countries native population as it come across as offensive even if silly

Culture might be a better word, rather than religious.

True

Reply Quote

Date: 12/02/2018 15:51:51
From: Cymek
ID: 1187460
Subject: re: What Fate for Mungo Man?

poikilotherm said:


Tamb said:

Cymek said:

I suppose religious belief scorn doesn’t extend to your countries native population as it come across as offensive even if silly

After 42000 years he’s just scientific. Nothing to do with native or otherwise.
Maybe they don’t want too much study done as it might turn out that he’s not aboriginal.

By definition he is aboriginal…unless from outer space.

I’d think it would be interesting for Aboriginal to find out about him, real information

Reply Quote

Date: 12/02/2018 15:52:50
From: Tamb
ID: 1187462
Subject: re: What Fate for Mungo Man?

poikilotherm said:


Tamb said:

Cymek said:

I suppose religious belief scorn doesn’t extend to your countries native population as it come across as offensive even if silly

After 42000 years he’s just scientific. Nothing to do with native or otherwise.
Maybe they don’t want too much study done as it might turn out that he’s not aboriginal.

By definition he is aboriginal…unless from outer space.

But possibly not the same ace as the present aboriginals. He may not even be Indigenous.

Reply Quote

Date: 12/02/2018 15:53:51
From: Tamb
ID: 1187464
Subject: re: What Fate for Mungo Man?

Cymek said:


PermeateFree said:

Cymek said:

I suppose religious belief scorn doesn’t extend to your countries native population as it come across as offensive even if silly

Culture might be a better word, rather than religious.

True

I think in aboriginal culture the two are one & the same.

Reply Quote

Date: 12/02/2018 15:53:56
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1187465
Subject: re: What Fate for Mungo Man?

>>The DNA analysis, published today in Nature, again confirms modern Aboriginal Australians are descended from one founding population that arrived about 50,000 years ago when the continent was still connected to New Guinea.

But lead researcher Professor Alan Cooper of the Australian Centre for Ancient DNA said the study shows the first people then “rocketed” around the west and east coasts, meeting somewhere in southern Australia around 2,000 years later.

The analysis indicated some populations stayed in specific areas during that continental migration and have been continuously present in those same regions ever since — having connection to country for as long as 50,000 years.

“We can see a very pronounced and distinct pattern of genetic types around Australia that clearly says Aboriginal people haven’t moved ,” Professor Cooper said.<<

http://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2017-03-09/dna-confirms-aboriginals-have-long-lasting-connection-to-country/8336284

Reply Quote

Date: 12/02/2018 15:54:09
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1187466
Subject: re: What Fate for Mungo Man?

poikilotherm said:


Tamb said:

Cymek said:

I suppose religious belief scorn doesn’t extend to your countries native population as it come across as offensive even if silly

After 42000 years he’s just scientific. Nothing to do with native or otherwise.
Maybe they don’t want too much study done as it might turn out that he’s not aboriginal.

By definition he is aboriginal…unless from outer space.

But present day aboriginal people might be descended from a different ethnic group from Mungo Man.

Although why that would be a problem for anybody, I don’t know.

Reply Quote

Date: 12/02/2018 15:54:30
From: poikilotherm
ID: 1187467
Subject: re: What Fate for Mungo Man?

Tamb said:


poikilotherm said:

Tamb said:

After 42000 years he’s just scientific. Nothing to do with native or otherwise.
Maybe they don’t want too much study done as it might turn out that he’s not aboriginal.

By definition he is aboriginal…unless from outer space.

But possibly not the same ace as the present aboriginals. He may not even be Indigenous.

zomg.

Reply Quote

Date: 12/02/2018 15:55:20
From: poikilotherm
ID: 1187470
Subject: re: What Fate for Mungo Man?

The Rev Dodgson said:


poikilotherm said:

Tamb said:

After 42000 years he’s just scientific. Nothing to do with native or otherwise.
Maybe they don’t want too much study done as it might turn out that he’s not aboriginal.

By definition he is aboriginal…unless from outer space.

But present day aboriginal people might be descended from a different ethnic group from Mungo Man.

Although why that would be a problem for anybody, I don’t know.

yea that

Reply Quote

Date: 12/02/2018 15:55:35
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1187471
Subject: re: What Fate for Mungo Man?

Tamb said:


poikilotherm said:

Tamb said:

After 42000 years he’s just scientific. Nothing to do with native or otherwise.
Maybe they don’t want too much study done as it might turn out that he’s not aboriginal.

By definition he is aboriginal…unless from outer space.

But possibly not the same ace as the present aboriginals. He may not even be Indigenous.

??

Doesn’t the fact that he was living here 40,000 years ago make him indigenous?

Reply Quote

Date: 12/02/2018 15:56:05
From: Tamb
ID: 1187472
Subject: re: What Fate for Mungo Man?

poikilotherm said:


Tamb said:

poikilotherm said:

By definition he is aboriginal…unless from outer space.

But possibly not the same ace as the present aboriginals. He may not even be Indigenous.

zomg.

ace = race

Reply Quote

Date: 12/02/2018 15:58:20
From: Tamb
ID: 1187477
Subject: re: What Fate for Mungo Man?

The Rev Dodgson said:


Tamb said:

poikilotherm said:

By definition he is aboriginal…unless from outer space.

But possibly not the same ace as the present aboriginals. He may not even be Indigenous.

??

Doesn’t the fact that he was living here 40,000 years ago make him indigenous?

He may have arrived not long before he died.

Reply Quote

Date: 12/02/2018 15:59:02
From: poikilotherm
ID: 1187479
Subject: re: What Fate for Mungo Man?

The Rev Dodgson said:


Tamb said:

poikilotherm said:

By definition he is aboriginal…unless from outer space.

But possibly not the same ace as the present aboriginals. He may not even be Indigenous.

??

Doesn’t the fact that he was living here 40,000 years ago make him indigenous?

Maybe he just flew in for visit then was heading back to Timbuktu but got caught up dieing in the middle of fkn nowhere.

Reply Quote

Date: 12/02/2018 16:02:34
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1187482
Subject: re: What Fate for Mungo Man?

I think we can take it for granted that he was a member of the population living in the region in which he died.

As for what happens to him now, that’s up to his custodians, which seems fair enough to me.

Who knows, they may decide to make him available for future study.

Reply Quote

Date: 12/02/2018 16:22:05
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1187502
Subject: re: What Fate for Mungo Man?

Bubblecar said:


I think we can take it for granted that he was a member of the population living in the region in which he died.

As for what happens to him now, that’s up to his custodians, which seems fair enough to me.

Who knows, they may decide to make him available for future study.

Going on dna evidence it would seem they did not move around much from where they first settled and present day Aboriginals from the same regions are directly related to them. However, 42,000 years is a very long time and when should their concerns lessen to permit scientific study? There are some Aboriginal groups that are very interested in finding out as much as they can about their origins, but like different groups anywhere some will have a different opinion, which is why the fate of Mungo Man is such a difficult decision to make. It would be foolish to think Mungo Man could never reveal other important information concerning early man and the first settlement of Australia.

Reply Quote

Date: 12/02/2018 16:45:52
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1187510
Subject: re: What Fate for Mungo Man?

> But his removal from his burial site to a Canberra university 43 years ago caused his traditional owners great angst.

Bullshit. It wasn’t until American black rights activists started preaching to the white Aborigines many years later that they ever thought about it.

Off topic but still relevent is an interesting tree burial custom of the aborigines of SE Australia. A dead man would be deposited in a tree hollow. When the ants have completely stripped the meat off the bone, the widow would have to take the bones out of the tree and was forced to carry them everywhere around with her. After the allotted time expired, the widow disposed of the bones.

Thank goodness aboriginal customs such as this have died out.

Reply Quote

Date: 12/02/2018 16:49:13
From: Cymek
ID: 1187511
Subject: re: What Fate for Mungo Man?

mollwollfumble said:


> But his removal from his burial site to a Canberra university 43 years ago caused his traditional owners great angst.

Bullshit. It wasn’t until American black rights activists started preaching to the white Aborigines many years later that they ever thought about it.

Off topic but still relevent is an interesting tree burial custom of the aborigines of SE Australia. A dead man would be deposited in a tree hollow. When the ants have completely stripped the meat off the bone, the widow would have to take the bones out of the tree and was forced to carry them everywhere around with her. After the allotted time expired, the widow disposed of the bones.

Thank goodness aboriginal customs such as this have died out.

Burial practices realistically should be as environmentally and cost friendly as possible after all usable organs have been taken

Reply Quote

Date: 12/02/2018 16:49:19
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1187513
Subject: re: What Fate for Mungo Man?

mollwollfumble said:


> But his removal from his burial site to a Canberra university 43 years ago caused his traditional owners great angst.

Bullshit. It wasn’t until American black rights activists started preaching to the white Aborigines many years later that they ever thought about it.

Leaving aside the question of what colour aboriginal people are, how do you know that?

Reply Quote

Date: 12/02/2018 16:51:14
From: Tamb
ID: 1187514
Subject: re: What Fate for Mungo Man?

Cymek said:


mollwollfumble said:

> But his removal from his burial site to a Canberra university 43 years ago caused his traditional owners great angst.

Bullshit. It wasn’t until American black rights activists started preaching to the white Aborigines many years later that they ever thought about it.

Off topic but still relevent is an interesting tree burial custom of the aborigines of SE Australia. A dead man would be deposited in a tree hollow. When the ants have completely stripped the meat off the bone, the widow would have to take the bones out of the tree and was forced to carry them everywhere around with her. After the allotted time expired, the widow disposed of the bones.

Thank goodness aboriginal customs such as this have died out.

Burial practices realistically should be as environmentally and cost friendly as possible after all usable organs have been taken

I have told people that I’d like to be donated to the Meaty Bites people to make some dogs happy.

Reply Quote

Date: 12/02/2018 16:55:55
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1187520
Subject: re: What Fate for Mungo Man?

The Rev Dodgson said:


mollwollfumble said:

> But his removal from his burial site to a Canberra university 43 years ago caused his traditional owners great angst.

Bullshit. It wasn’t until American black rights activists started preaching to the white Aborigines many years later that they ever thought about it.

Leaving aside the question of what colour aboriginal people are, how do you know that?

Sometime Moll just makes stuff up. Part and parcel of very intelligent people confusing their opinions with facts.

Reply Quote

Date: 12/02/2018 17:25:32
From: dv
ID: 1187539
Subject: re: What Fate for Mungo Man?

Rule 303 said:


Can’t they just keep a leg bone, or something?

Or, better, samples from over the entire skellington

Reply Quote

Date: 12/02/2018 17:27:50
From: dv
ID: 1187541
Subject: re: What Fate for Mungo Man?

The Rev Dodgson said:


Tamb said:

poikilotherm said:

By definition he is aboriginal…unless from outer space.

But possibly not the same ace as the present aboriginals. He may not even be Indigenous.

??

Doesn’t the fact that he was living here 40,000 years ago make him indigenous?

Not trying to be funny: he could literally have been born outside Australia.

I would consider this very unlikely.

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