Have cracked some metal while installing an awning. It’s only about 1 mm thick and is taking a hefty compression force, the risk is that it’s unsupported sideways so the crack could slip sideways and collapse. Even without glue it hasn’t slipped sideways yet, but I haven’t put full load on it.
Which glue? Silicone, epoxy, cyanoacrylate, builders adhesive, other?
mollwollfumble said:
Have cracked some metal while installing an awning. It’s only about 1 mm thick and is taking a hefty compression force, the risk is that it’s unsupported sideways so the crack could slip sideways and collapse. Even without glue it hasn’t slipped sideways yet, but I haven’t put full load on it.Which glue? Silicone, epoxy, cyanoacrylate, builders adhesive, other?
White colour preferred.
mollwollfumble said:
Have cracked some metal while installing an awning. It’s only about 1 mm thick and is taking a hefty compression force, the risk is that it’s unsupported sideways so the crack could slip sideways and collapse. Even without glue it hasn’t slipped sideways yet, but I haven’t put full load on it.Which glue? Silicone, epoxy, cyanoacrylate, builders adhesive, other?
sikaflex, they use it to hold cars together.
http://aus.sika.com/en/solutions_products/02/02a024/02a024sa08/02a024sa08100/02a024sa08101.html
mollwollfumble said:
Have cracked some metal while installing an awning. It’s only about 1 mm thick and is taking a hefty compression force, the risk is that it’s unsupported sideways so the crack could slip sideways and collapse. Even without glue it hasn’t slipped sideways yet, but I haven’t put full load on it.Which glue? Silicone, epoxy, cyanoacrylate, builders adhesive, other?
you could probably do with a smallish piece of metal to glue onto it as well to help reinforce the join.
mollwollfumble said:
Have cracked some metal while installing an awning. It’s only about 1 mm thick and is taking a hefty compression force, the risk is that it’s unsupported sideways so the crack could slip sideways and collapse. Even without glue it hasn’t slipped sideways yet, but I haven’t put full load on it.Which glue? Silicone, epoxy, cyanoacrylate, builders adhesive, other?
JB Weld.
Bogsnorkler said:
mollwollfumble said:
Have cracked some metal while installing an awning. It’s only about 1 mm thick and is taking a hefty compression force, the risk is that it’s unsupported sideways so the crack could slip sideways and collapse. Even without glue it hasn’t slipped sideways yet, but I haven’t put full load on it.Which glue? Silicone, epoxy, cyanoacrylate, builders adhesive, other?
sikaflex, they use it to hold cars together.
But even duct tape will do that. ;-)
Checks Sikaflex on web – “Sikaflex-PRO is a one component, thixotropic, polyurethane based joint sealant. It cures under the influence of atmospheric moisture to form an elastomeric material with adhesive properties”.
One website suggests soldering?
Picture of crack, at bottom of picture.
https://www.jbweld.com/collections/metal
mollwollfumble said:
Bogsnorkler said:
mollwollfumble said:
Have cracked some metal while installing an awning. It’s only about 1 mm thick and is taking a hefty compression force, the risk is that it’s unsupported sideways so the crack could slip sideways and collapse. Even without glue it hasn’t slipped sideways yet, but I haven’t put full load on it.Which glue? Silicone, epoxy, cyanoacrylate, builders adhesive, other?
sikaflex, they use it to hold cars together.
But even duct tape will do that. ;-)
Checks Sikaflex on web – “Sikaflex-PRO is a one component, thixotropic, polyurethane based joint sealant. It cures under the influence of atmospheric moisture to form an elastomeric material with adhesive properties”.One website suggests soldering?
Picture of crack, at bottom of picture.
get a new support. too little surface area for a good fix.
mollwollfumble said:
Bogsnorkler said:
mollwollfumble said:
Have cracked some metal while installing an awning. It’s only about 1 mm thick and is taking a hefty compression force, the risk is that it’s unsupported sideways so the crack could slip sideways and collapse. Even without glue it hasn’t slipped sideways yet, but I haven’t put full load on it.Which glue? Silicone, epoxy, cyanoacrylate, builders adhesive, other?
sikaflex, they use it to hold cars together.
But even duct tape will do that. ;-)
Checks Sikaflex on web – “Sikaflex-PRO is a one component, thixotropic, polyurethane based joint sealant. It cures under the influence of atmospheric moisture to form an elastomeric material with adhesive properties”.One website suggests soldering?
Picture of crack, at bottom of picture.
mr kii says it’s cast, which means that “soldering is not gonna do any good….y’all.”
I’d replace that part.
Better still, move to a house with awnings already installed – the new owners of your old place can sort out that issue…
kii said:
mollwollfumble said:
Bogsnorkler said:sikaflex, they use it to hold cars together.
But even duct tape will do that. ;-)
Checks Sikaflex on web – “Sikaflex-PRO is a one component, thixotropic, polyurethane based joint sealant. It cures under the influence of atmospheric moisture to form an elastomeric material with adhesive properties”.One website suggests soldering?
Picture of crack, at bottom of picture.
mr kii says it’s cast, which means that “soldering is not gonna do any good….y’all.”
yep, that was my thought too.
furious said:
- Picture of crack, at bottom of picture.
I’d replace that part.
Better still, move to a house with awnings already installed – the new owners of your old place can sort out that issue…
Excellent idea!
I was going to suggest knocking the awning and wall down and starting from scratch.
kii said:
mollwollfumble said:
Have cracked some metal while installing an awning. It’s only about 1 mm thick and is taking a hefty compression force, the risk is that it’s unsupported sideways so the crack could slip sideways and collapse. Even without glue it hasn’t slipped sideways yet, but I haven’t put full load on it.Which glue? Silicone, epoxy, cyanoacrylate, builders adhesive, other?
JB Weld.
I have some JB Weld, a couple of years old. But isn’t that just an epoxy with silver colouring added?
Reinforce with structural integrity field
mollwollfumble said:
kii said:
mollwollfumble said:
Have cracked some metal while installing an awning. It’s only about 1 mm thick and is taking a hefty compression force, the risk is that it’s unsupported sideways so the crack could slip sideways and collapse. Even without glue it hasn’t slipped sideways yet, but I haven’t put full load on it.Which glue? Silicone, epoxy, cyanoacrylate, builders adhesive, other?
JB Weld.
I have some JB Weld, a couple of years old. But isn’t that just an epoxy with silver colouring added?
I have no idea.
I’ve had a gin and lime juice cordial. I might need to go pass out some place soft.
furious said:
- Picture of crack, at bottom of picture.
I’d replace that part.
I don’t happen to have a spare $250.
mollwollfumble said:
furious said:
- Picture of crack, at bottom of picture.
I’d replace that part.
I don’t happen to have a spare $250.
Sell a body part
It would look ugly but would some sort of resin covering the entire part work
mollwollfumble said:
furious said:
- Picture of crack, at bottom of picture.
I’d replace that part.
I don’t happen to have a spare $250.
That part is $250? Heck, that’s a rip off. You could easily get a new bit made at the local fitter and turner’s shop for way less than that.
It might be possible to make and apply a complete wrap-around external patch to repair it, but being a one-off repair, I’d need to try to do it myself. And I don’t live near Melbourne to assist you. Sorry.
you could try gluing it, then wrap thin metal around it gluing that as you go around it
temp fix until a new part can be found
A new part would be better
As MV said.
Take the part to the local fitter and turner’s shop.
How difficult would it be to get a block of metal and cut it to that shape?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moran_Fridman
Israel’s answer to Morgan Freeman
Tau.Neutrino said:
As MV said.Take the part to the local fitter and turner’s shop.
Fitter and turner shops don’t exist any more. Did they ever exist or is that just a myth?
Have JB Welded the part together, and lightly clamped the part. Takes overnight to dry fully.
JB Weld must be the messiest glue ever. Black everywhere. Not sure I was able to get the correct 50 50 ratio of glue to hardener.
Sikaflex tends to come in 310 ml containers, which is way too much for this job.
Tau.Neutrino said:
How difficult would it be to get a block of metal and cut it to that shape?
Impossible. I could do it in wood, eventually, perhaps, but that woodn’t be strong enough.
Yes they do. They may be called “fabricating engineers”. I’ve never had trouble finding one when I needed one.
Fitter and turner shops don’t exist any more. Did they ever exist or is that just a myth?
Yes they still exist, try > Yellow Pages > Fitter Turner, Shop Fitter etc
A milling machine could do that little job in no time.
Michael V said:
eg this mob, found by a tiny bit of googling: fitter and turner shop melbourne -jobs
Yes they do. They may be called “fabricating engineers”. I’ve never had trouble finding one when I needed one.
Dajer Engineering Pty Ltd – Engineering, Fitter Turner & Machining
www.dajerengineering.com.au/
Servicing the Mornington Peninsula, Bayside and South East Suburbs of Melbourne in the State of Victoria, Australia, including but not limited the Bayside, Dandenong, Frankston and Mornington Peninsula regions. We are specialists in Metal Fitter and Turning, mechanical engineering, metalworking, lathe and milling, …
Perfect job for a 3D printer…
How about cutting an inch or so off each side of the break. Get a piece of steel manufactured or ground down to fit internally… heap of glue… Or else do that in 2 pieces and then weld at the right angle.
On second thoughts that shape is too difficult… I’d go for the duct tape.
HTH
Michael V said:
Michael V said:eg this mob, found by a tiny bit of googling: fitter and turner shop melbourne -jobs
Yes they do. They may be called “fabricating engineers”. I’ve never had trouble finding one when I needed one.
Dajer Engineering Pty Ltd – Engineering, Fitter Turner & Machining
www.dajerengineering.com.au/
Servicing the Mornington Peninsula, Bayside and South East Suburbs of Melbourne in the State of Victoria, Australia, including but not limited the Bayside, Dandenong, Frankston and Mornington Peninsula regions. We are specialists in Metal Fitter and Turning, mechanical engineering, metalworking, lathe and milling, …
Ta, I could really have done with a place like that when I was trying to improve on existing rocket motors.
Worth a visit perhaps next time I’m in the area.
furious said:
- A milling machine could do that little job in no time
Perfect job for a 3D printer…
No.
Well, in that case, it is a piece of crap awning and if it broke during installation I would make sure your public liability insurance is up to date if you insist on keeping it on the wall…
On third thoughts plumbers use Araldite in place of solder. You’d have to dismantle the bracket so that you could have the broken corner pointing down so that the glue stays in the corner.
I can offer no advice.
I think it will go 4-Fs sooner or later so I would be resigned to saving up for a new one. Patch the old one up as much as possible and hope it holds out for a while, but can’t see it being a permanent fix.
I’d make one myself.
Aluminum block.
Cut and drill it to shape.
something like this might work?
FiberFix Total Repair, its a resin based glue by the look of it
https://www.homedepot.com/p/FiberFix-18-oz-Total-Repair-Adhesive-857101004440/301232093
put some of that in
\then wrap some of this around it
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FiberFix-Ridiculously-Strong-Repair-Wrap-Fiber-Fix-2-x-50/162856786808?hash=item25eb055b78:g:Z7IAAOSwEzxYQtX6
mollwollfumble said:
furious said:
- A milling machine could do that little job in no time
Perfect job for a 3D printer…
No.
really? when i know 3d printer users that make parts for race cars from carbon fibre based filaments? I reckon it would work fine. just have to be careful with the orientation you print it at.
Well, one piece of Dutton related news is reasonable. Turnbull decided that the new attorney general should decide rootin’ tootin’ Roman Quaedvlieg’s fate, rather than Dutton doing so. Border Farce, thanks Dutton.
Bogsnorkler said:
mollwollfumble said:furious said:
- A milling machine could do that little job in no time
Perfect job for a 3D printer…
No.
really? when i know 3d printer users that make parts for race cars from carbon fibre based filaments? I reckon it would work fine. just have to be careful with the orientation you print it at.
Who prints carbon fibre? I’d still have to machine the surfaces afterwards. Which rather defeats the purpose.
Golly, I definitely should have asked here about how to build rocket motors.
ruby said:
Well, one piece of Dutton related news is reasonable. Turnbull decided that the new attorney general should decide rootin’ tootin’ Roman Quaedvlieg’s fate, rather than Dutton doing so. Border Farce, thanks Dutton.
Need lots of glue to fix Duttons neural network
Probably un fixable, better to throw Dutton away
Can you brace it from both sides to reinforce it
Tau.Neutrino said:
ruby said:
Well, one piece of Dutton related news is reasonable. Turnbull decided that the new attorney general should decide rootin’ tootin’ Roman Quaedvlieg’s fate, rather than Dutton doing so. Border Farce, thanks Dutton.
Need lots of glue to fix Duttons neural network
Probably un fixable, better to throw Dutton away
I’ll drink to that. raises glass of beetroot juice
mollwollfumble said:
Bogsnorkler said:
mollwollfumble said:No.
really? when i know 3d printer users that make parts for race cars from carbon fibre based filaments? I reckon it would work fine. just have to be careful with the orientation you print it at.
Who prints carbon fibre? I’d still have to machine the surfaces afterwards. Which rather defeats the purpose.
Golly, I definitely should have asked here about how to build rocket motors.
it wont fix itself
your options
1 glue it wrap it and more glue
2 replace the part
3 get a new part made
4 make one yourself
mollwollfumble said:
Bogsnorkler said:
mollwollfumble said:No.
really? when i know 3d printer users that make parts for race cars from carbon fibre based filaments? I reckon it would work fine. just have to be careful with the orientation you print it at.
Who prints carbon fibre? I’d still have to machine the surfaces afterwards. Which rather defeats the purpose.
Golly, I definitely should have asked here about how to build rocket motors.
quite a few people use filaments with carbon fibre in them. excellent finish.
Tau.Neutrino said:
mollwollfumble said:
Bogsnorkler said:really? when i know 3d printer users that make parts for race cars from carbon fibre based filaments? I reckon it would work fine. just have to be careful with the orientation you print it at.
Who prints carbon fibre? I’d still have to machine the surfaces afterwards. Which rather defeats the purpose.
Golly, I definitely should have asked here about how to build rocket motors.
it wont fix itself
your options
1 glue it wrap it and more glue
2 replace the part
3 get a new part made
4 make one yourself
Done number 1. Epoxy it with slow epoxy and lightly clamp it over night until it reaches maximum strength.
If that fails when I put maximum load on it then try 2, 3, 4 in turn.
One advantage of the wishbone design is that if one side fails, the other side may be strong enough to take the whole compressive load on its own.
Bogsnorkler said:
mollwollfumble said:
Bogsnorkler said:really? when i know 3d printer users that make parts for race cars from carbon fibre based filaments? I reckon it would work fine. just have to be careful with the orientation you print it at.
Who prints carbon fibre? I’d still have to machine the surfaces afterwards. Which rather defeats the purpose.
Golly, I definitely should have asked here about how to build rocket motors.
quite a few people use filaments with carbon fibre in them. excellent finish.
carbon fibre filament print. what machining is required?
mollwollfumble said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
mollwollfumble said:Who prints carbon fibre? I’d still have to machine the surfaces afterwards. Which rather defeats the purpose.
Golly, I definitely should have asked here about how to build rocket motors.
it wont fix itself
your options
1 glue it wrap it and more glue
2 replace the part
3 get a new part made
4 make one yourself
Done number 1. Epoxy it with slow epoxy and lightly clamp it over night until it reaches maximum strength.
If that fails when I put maximum load on it then try 2, 3, 4 in turn.
One advantage of the wishbone design is that if one side fails, the other side may be strong enough to take the whole compressive load on its own.
can you drill a small hole in each side? about 1/16” should do, put a bolt through with a large washer on either side, tighten together to take the strain off of where the crack is
Bogsnorkler said:
Bogsnorkler said:
mollwollfumble said:Who prints carbon fibre? I’d still have to machine the surfaces afterwards. Which rather defeats the purpose.
Golly, I definitely should have asked here about how to build rocket motors.
quite a few people use filaments with carbon fibre in them. excellent finish.
carbon fibre filament print. what machining is required?
That’s a really sexy part that is.
Tau.Neutrino said:
Bogsnorkler said:
Bogsnorkler said:quite a few people use filaments with carbon fibre in them. excellent finish.
carbon fibre filament print. what machining is required?
That’s a really sexy part that is.
Nice finish too, bet it feels like a woman’s bum
Nice and smooth but with a discernible texture
whats that cable for???
I it fails again, I’d look at getting a short offcut of square steel tubing, sized to slip tightly over the whole lot. Cut two slots out to correspond with the existing slots between the fingers, drill two holes where the bolt goes and fit a longer bolt. Maybe drill a couple of small holes down where the strut is and fit a couple of screws to clamp the original tube to the new bit
Anyone withe a grinder and hand drill should be able to knock it up in under ten minutes
boppa said:
whats that cable for???I it fails again, I’d look at getting a short offcut of square steel tubing, sized to slip tightly over the whole lot. Cut two slots out to correspond with the existing slots between the fingers, drill two holes where the bolt goes and fit a longer bolt. Maybe drill a couple of small holes down where the strut is and fit a couple of screws to clamp the original tube to the new bit
Anyone withe a grinder and hand drill should be able to knock it up in under ten minutes
Or a caution sign placed near it and do nothing else
White duct tape.
Rule 303 said:
White duct tape.
No true handyman ever used white duct tape
party_pants said:
Rule 303 said:
White duct tape.
No true handyman ever used white duct tape
Pfffft.
Had a vehicle shoot a spring base over its retaining lugs on a McPherson strut when I hit a washout on the great top road at 90km/hr. Couple of hose clamps and a dozen wraps of duct tape late, we were back on the road.
The stuff has serious mechanical properties, and it stiffens over time. The tape was still there when we sold the vehicle 18 months later.
:-)
Had a look at your pic Moll
Glue will only work if you can pry the crack open a bit and get it into the opposing surfaces …. without causing more damage . Most any epoxy will work but will not be runny enough but Loctite 401 comes in small dropper sizes with a fine nozzle would be my pick.
It looks like powder coated cast ally , you will not successfully weld or solder it , maybe braze but unlikely.
I don’t think glue will be a permanent fix. But if you have room to dill a small hole either side and bolt it together without fouling the wire rope , that and a loctite should do .
It looks like 1/19 lay 3.2mm wire . If so , I think you will have room for a bolt.
Brett
Thomo said:
Had a look at your pic Moll
Glue will only work if you can pry the crack open a bit and get it into the opposing surfaces …. without causing more damage . Most any epoxy will work but will not be runny enough but Loctite 401 comes in small dropper sizes with a fine nozzle would be my pick.
It looks like powder coated cast ally , you will not successfully weld or solder it , maybe braze but unlikely.
I don’t think glue will be a permanent fix. But if you have room to dill a small hole either side and bolt it together without fouling the wire rope , that and a loctite should do .
It looks like 1/19 lay 3.2mm wire . If so , I think you will have room for a bolt.Brett
> Glue will only work if you can pry the crack open a bit and get it into the opposing surfaces …. without causing more damage .
I did that. It was already completely severed (which I hadn’t realised earlier) so partial disassembly widened the crack without causing more damage. Also, it’s thicker than I had expected, the crack is about 5 mm wide.
Did the epoxy thing with JB Weld.
Have now loaded it up to working load (haven’t tried maximum load yet) and it’s performed beautifully. The load is compressive but the crack is at 45 degrees meaning that it’s in shear. The roughnesses of the surfaces of the crack helps it to resist shear, and the second half of the wishbone is probably taking the lions share of the load.
Thanks for the advice everyone. Wire rope looks like my next best bet if the glue fails. Then trying to find a replacement part.
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Bogsnorkler said:carbon fibre filament print. what machining is required?
That’s a really sexy part that is.
Nice finish too, bet it feels like a woman’s bum
Nice and smooth but with a discernible texture
Yes. The texture is why it would need machining to get a perfectly flat rotating joint. Much prettier than I expected. With one exception, the 3-D printing that I’ve seen is always rough on the mm scale. Who does work like this? I have to get them to print out a rocket nozzle for me.
mollwollfumble said:
Picture of crack, at bottom of picture.
> What’s the cable for?
The cable is attached to a spring, a really strong one. So strong that with a 10 cm lever arm it’s impossible to extend it by hand. With a one metre lever arm it applies about 3 kg of force.
It’s the spring that provides the compression through the joint.
Have also just tried gluing metal (keyring) to acrylic (immitation diamond). Although 5 minute epoxy is still tacky after 30 mins.
Making a giant diamond ring for Missy’s birthday.
