New Brain Preservation Technique Could Be A Path To Mind Uploading

Using a technique developed three years ago, researchers from MIT and 21st Century Medicine have shown that it’s possible to preserve the microscopic structures contained within a large mammalian brain. The breakthrough means scientists now have the means to store and study samples of the human brain over longer timescales – but the method could eventually, maybe, be used to resurrect the dead.

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Are memories chemical?

Maybe applying electricity to the brain can resurrect those memories.

What levels of electricity ?

Tau.Neutrino said:

New Brain Preservation Technique Could Be A Path To Mind Uploading

Using a technique developed three years ago, researchers from MIT and 21st Century Medicine have shown that it’s possible to preserve the microscopic structures contained within a large mammalian brain. The breakthrough means scientists now have the means to store and study samples of the human brain over longer timescales – but the method could eventually, maybe, be used to resurrect the dead.

more…

From link: “Aldehyde-Stabilised Cryopreservation (ASC)”

“The process involves immersing a mammalian brain with a chemical stabiliser (a glutaraldehyde-based fixative) and cryoprotectants (to prevent damage while cooling), then bringing it down to -135C for long-term storage. In the event that scientists want to study the preserved brain, either a few months or a few centuries from now, all they have to do is warm the brain and remove the cryopreservants. The end result is not a biological substance, but a plastic-like object that still (theoretically) contains all of the information that was packed inside the brain at the moment of death.”

“Conceivably, slices of these preserved brains could be digitised and reconfigured in a computer to reconstruct a person’s connectome – the totality of a brain’s specific internal wirings.”

Good. It had to be something like that. Neither chemical preservation nor cryopreservation suffices on its own. Glutaraldehyde is a disinfectant – keeps it from attack by bacteria and fungi.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Are memories chemical?

Maybe applying electricity to the brain can resurrect those memories.

What levels of electricity ?

Yes. Unlikely. Ask Dr Frankenstein.

Tau.Neutrino said:

New Brain Preservation Technique Could Be A Path To Mind Uploading

Using a technique developed three years ago, researchers from MIT and 21st Century Medicine have shown that it’s possible to preserve the microscopic structures contained within a large mammalian brain. The breakthrough means scientists now have the means to store and study samples of the human brain over longer timescales – but the method could eventually, maybe, be used to resurrect the dead.

more…

Jaysus, the MIT media unit has gone above and beyond with this one.

mollwollfumble said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Are memories chemical?

Maybe applying electricity to the brain can resurrect those memories.

What levels of electricity ?

Yes. Unlikely. Ask Dr Frankenstein.

Yes, I realize that.

But I wonder if they can they improve memory retention by applying electricity using that process?

Tau.Neutrino said:

mollwollfumble said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Are memories chemical?

Maybe applying electricity to the brain can resurrect those memories.

What levels of electricity ?

Yes. Unlikely. Ask Dr Frankenstein.

Yes, I realize that.

But I wonder if they can they improve memory retention by applying electricity using that process?

Why would that help – when you preserve something you don’t want to have it fluctuating during the preservation process.

mollwollfumble said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

mollwollfumble said:

Yes. Unlikely. Ask Dr Frankenstein.

Yes, I realize that.

But I wonder if they can they improve memory retention by applying electricity using that process?

Why would that help – when you preserve something you don’t want to have it fluctuating during the preservation process.

ok

well what about bear hibernation

does bear hibernation reduce elecro chemical activity in their brains or does it stay the same?

it don’t mean normal levels of electricity in the brain

bring it right down to a trickle

dear God it’s chilly in here, where’s the love.

enjoy the blood flow while you can, pressurized, oxygenated and all.

we’ve all stood up too quick at some stage, beware.

Tau.Neutrino said:

mollwollfumble said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Are memories chemical?

Maybe applying electricity to the brain can resurrect those memories.

What levels of electricity ?

Yes. Unlikely. Ask Dr Frankenstein.

Yes, I realize that.

But I wonder if they can they improve memory retention by applying electricity using that process?

Zapping your testicles for example during torture so you remember the answers to the questions they are asking you

Tau.Neutrino said:

Maybe applying electricity to the brain can resurrect those memories.

What levels of electricity ?

That experiment has been under way for almost a century. Look up electroconvulsive therapy (also known (somewhat jocularly) as Edison Medicine.) A study published in 2001 found that, “In some patients the recovery from retrograde amnesia will be incomplete, and evidence has shown that ECT can result in persistent or permanent memory loss.” [American Psychiatric Association; Committee on Electroconvulsive Therapy; Richard D. Weiner (chairperson); et al. (2001). The practice of electroconvulsive therapy: recommendations for treatment, training, and privileging (2nd ed.). Washington, DC: American Psychiatric Publishing. ISBN 978-0-89042-206-9.]

So the evidence seems to indicate rather the opposite of what you suggest.

transition said:

dear God it’s chilly in here, where’s the love.

enjoy the blood flow while you can, pressurized, oxygenated and all.

we’ve all stood up too quick at some stage, beware.

Hehe

But where are the memories stored, can doctors point to a part of the btain and say “memories live there”
And how are they stored and would it ever be remotely possible to retrieve them.

Imagine a future world many many years into the future where fusion power is only a few decades away.
Imagine a high powered entertainer accused of a heinous crime and a Judge who has just signed an order for the accused to have his memory read but only as far back as the crime itself’
The case has caused headlines around Earth and Mars and other plaitarian colonies.
The accused walks into a room clothed only in a white robe and is given a calming sedative.
The accused is asked his name but he stares blankly at the wall and does not answer.
The surgeons go in to start the memory download but……………………but they find nothing, his whole memory has been completely wiped. Someone has already been there but who?
The Mayor puts down the phone and looks solemnly at the assembled press, “That was Batman on the phone he……………he thinks it was The Penguin.

Tau.Neutrino said:

well what about bear hibernation

does bear hibernation reduce elecro chemical activity in their brains or does it stay the same?

it don’t mean normal levels of electricity in the brain

bring it right down to a trickle

I’m not sure about bear hibernation. But hibernation of the Weta has to take brain electrochemical activity all the way down to zero.

Checking up Google Scholar, there are a lot of scientific papers about brain activity during hibernation. Let’s see.

Electrochemical brain activity in ground squirrels drops off almost to zero during hibernation, for periods of two to three weeks at a time.

mollwollfumble said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

well what about bear hibernation

does bear hibernation reduce elecro chemical activity in their brains or does it stay the same?

it don’t mean normal levels of electricity in the brain

bring it right down to a trickle

I’m not sure about bear hibernation. But hibernation of the Weta has to take brain electrochemical activity all the way down to zero.

Checking up Google Scholar, there are a lot of scientific papers about brain activity during hibernation. Let’s see.

Electrochemical brain activity in ground squirrels drops off almost to zero during hibernation, for periods of two to three weeks at a time.

probably the autonomic system just ticking over

Peak Warming Man said:

transition said:

dear God it’s chilly in here, where’s the love.

enjoy the blood flow while you can, pressurized, oxygenated and all.

we’ve all stood up too quick at some stage, beware.

Hehe

But where are the memories stored, can doctors point to a part of the btain and say “memories live there”
And how are they stored and would it ever be remotely possible to retrieve them.

Imagine a future world many many years into the future where fusion power is only a few decades away.
Imagine a high powered entertainer accused of a heinous crime and a Judge who has just signed an order for the accused to have his memory read but only as far back as the crime itself’
The case has caused headlines around Earth and Mars and other plaitarian colonies.
The accused walks into a room clothed only in a white robe and is given a calming sedative.
The accused is asked his name but he stares blankly at the wall and does not answer.
The surgeons go in to start the memory download but……………………but they find nothing, his whole memory has been completely wiped. Someone has already been there but who?
The Mayor puts down the phone and looks solemnly at the assembled press, “That was Batman on the phone he……………he thinks it was The Penguin.

Hold on, at this point doesn’t Robin have to slide down a pole?

If memories are electro chemical based maybe they could brought to life using an targeted electro chemical procedure.

How to do this?

A set of volunteers memorizes specific things visual auditory on a fMRI scanner.

The areas in the brain where the memories are stored are recorded.

After the volunteer dies, the brain is prepared, then the memories might be bought back using targeted electrochemical procedure in the same area in the brain.

Possible? I know they are a lot of other things to consider.

Specific electro chemicals, more understanding of the electro chemical processes in the brain.

Keeping a human brain in hibernation would be interesting.

Keeping a human brain in hibernation.

That might be the next step.

Tau.Neutrino said:

If memories are electro chemical based maybe they could brought to life using an targeted electro chemical procedure.

How to do this?

A set of volunteers memorizes specific things visual auditory on a fMRI scanner.

The areas in the brain where the memories are stored are recorded.

After the volunteer dies, the brain is prepared, then the memories might be bought back using targeted electrochemical procedure in the same area in the brain.

Possible? I know they are a lot of other things to consider.

Specific electro chemicals, more understanding of the electro chemical processes in the brain.

Keeping a human brain in hibernation would be interesting.

It would need to be stimulated I imagine as even if alive it could atrophy by not being exercised/used

barking

Tau.Neutrino said:

If memories are electro chemical based maybe they could brought to life using an targeted electro chemical procedure.

How to do this?

A set of volunteers memorizes specific things visual auditory on a fMRI scanner.

The areas in the brain where the memories are stored are recorded.

After the volunteer dies, the brain is prepared, then the memories might be bought back using targeted electrochemical procedure in the same area in the brain.

Possible? I know they are a lot of other things to consider.

Specific electro chemicals, more understanding of the electro chemical processes in the brain.

Keeping a human brain in hibernation would be interesting.

That might be the next step.

Removing the brain from the skull is quite a traumatic experience. Ditto putting a brain i9nto a new skull. That’s why heads are saved in cryonics rather than brains.

> If memories are electrochemical based

I think the whole point of the work here is the “connectome”, the physical connection between brain cells. If this is the way that memory are stored then it is not electrochemical but physical. Or to put it another way, by thinly slicing a preserved brain a copy would be transferred to computer. And with better software the computer could then recall those memories.

The preservation method makes further useful electrochemical activity in the brain impossible.

> A set of volunteers memorizes specific things visual auditory on a fMRI scanner.

fMRI actually only measures blood flow, it doesn’t measure brain activity directly.

mollwollfumble said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

If memories are electro chemical based maybe they could brought to life using an targeted electro chemical procedure.

How to do this?

A set of volunteers memorizes specific things visual auditory on a fMRI scanner.

The areas in the brain where the memories are stored are recorded.

After the volunteer dies, the brain is prepared, then the memories might be bought back using targeted electrochemical procedure in the same area in the brain.

Possible? I know they are a lot of other things to consider.

Specific electro chemicals, more understanding of the electro chemical processes in the brain.

Keeping a human brain in hibernation would be interesting.

That might be the next step.

Removing the brain from the skull is quite a traumatic experience. Ditto putting a brain i9nto a new skull. That’s why heads are saved in cryonics rather than brains.

> If memories are electrochemical based

I think the whole point of the work here is the “connectome”, the physical connection between brain cells. If this is the way that memory are stored then it is not electrochemical but physical. Or to put it another way, by thinly slicing a preserved brain a copy would be transferred to computer. And with better software the computer could then recall those memories.

The preservation method makes further useful electrochemical activity in the brain impossible.

> A set of volunteers memorizes specific things visual auditory on a fMRI scanner.

fMRI actually only measures blood flow, it doesn’t measure brain activity directly.

Ok,

then hibernation looks more appealing

as another alternative

and makes retrieval of memories possible

Could it be possible to put the human brain in hibernation.

For how long?

Useful for long space flights.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Could it be possible to put the human brain in hibernation.

For how long?

Useful for long space flights.

I would love to know the answer to that. The best method I know is an extreme overdose of sulphur dioxide. A big difficulty is getting the brain to shut down suddenly all at once, a slow shutdown causes everything to go out of sync which causes severe degradation. By “extreme overdose” I mean many times the fatal concentration. It’s an extremely risky procedure.

I would even more love to know how long a fertilized human ovum could be safely stored for a long space flight. 1,000 years? 10,000 years? Even frozen human sperm has a “use by date”.

generally i’d expect brains aren’t just, or even primarily about memory, some people half jokingly call the function the forgetory, which has a truth about it, you know there are mental states to maintain, the home in the head.

point being there is a soft structure, more globally of mind, adaptive that way, in fact it’s almost what mind is.

whatever, memory, experience of the computational apparatus, needs to be not too much of an insult to the wetware.

something tells me the experience of consciousness, and mental states, is an organic experience, including, or involving oxygenated sugar-fueled blood, and more.

i’m not convinced brains, or minds, are mostly about memory.

for all I know half the effervescence of this experience, these feel-good brain bubbles i’m suspended in could be nitrous oxide or something. Dunno.

transition said:

generally i’d expect brains aren’t just, or even primarily about memory, some people half jokingly call the function the forgetory, which has a truth about it, you know there are mental states to maintain, the home in the head.

point being there is a soft structure, more globally of mind, adaptive that way, in fact it’s almost what mind is.

whatever, memory, experience of the computational apparatus, needs to be not too much of an insult to the wetware.

something tells me the experience of consciousness, and mental states, is an organic experience, including, or involving oxygenated sugar-fueled blood, and more.

i’m not convinced brains, or minds, are mostly about memory.

for all I know half the effervescence of this experience, these feel-good brain bubbles i’m suspended in could be nitrous oxide or something. Dunno.

One way to look at the brain is to see it as an orchestra

instruments for

breathing
heart pulse
nerve signals
visual processing
auditory processing
smell processing
touch processing
taste processing
walking
balance
memory recall
sensing the external world through perceptions
threat assessment
decision making
awareness of self
ability to plan ahead
emotional response
controlling emotions
emotional intelligence
organ management
sexual urges
awareness of other people
awareness of positive and negative values.
ability to self teach, ethical logic thinking, human rights, modern values

heaps of others…..

The brain is hundreds of instruments working together like an orchestra
A lot can overlap such as all the auto functional parts of the body, but the idea is that all these things can change, the music can change, the instruments can change.

Step back a bit further and society can look like an orchestra, millions of people doing millions of different things all together in space time.

That’s one way to look it, heaps of other ways to look at it.

well, nitric oxide, maybe

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_functions_of_nitric_oxide