imagine the universe, the expanding universe you’re in, was set going sort of as a computational apparatus. It’s not being directed, just the conditions and ingredients to get it started.

it was initiated to solve some problems.

consider the possibility there are hints of another physics in this universe, of an elsewhere that isn’t properly an elsewhere as the most apparent (dominant) physics in this universe would inform. It’s in some way not an elsewhere because this universe is in it.

perhaps one of many computers.

looking at the experiment running its course, from the perspective of the (hypothetical) experimenter, what has come from it so far?

if life evolved to this extent, with consciousness, what might be extracted from human endeavors that hints at the experimenters problems to be solved?

if there are any hints of the problem/s at all, I mean this universe may be one of many that has completely missed it so far. Yielded no answer, no bridge perhaps.

transition said:

imagine the universe, the expanding universe you’re in, was set going sort of as a computational apparatus. It’s not being directed, just the conditions and ingredients to get it started.

it was initiated to solve some problems.

consider the possibility there are hints of another physics in this universe, of an elsewhere that isn’t properly an elsewhere as the most apparent (dominant) physics in this universe would inform. It’s in some way not an elsewhere because this universe is in it.

perhaps one of many computers.

looking at the experiment running its course, from the perspective of the (hypothetical) experimenter, what has come from it so far?

if life evolved to this extent, with consciousness, what might be extracted from human endeavors that hints at the experimenters problems to be solved?

if there are any hints of the problem/s at all, I mean this universe may be one of many that has completely missed it so far. Yielded no answer, no bridge perhaps.

> it was initiated to solve some problems. From the perspective of the (hypothetical) experimenter, what has come from it so far?

I wrote an extremely bad science fiction story with this premise many years ago.

In my story, our universe was created with the aim of maximising the number of neutron stars produced. On theory some years ago, neutron stars can’t exist because any star heavy enough to collapse into a neutron star will go past that stage and collapse directly into a black hole. It’s only recently that we’ve started to get an understanding of the way that supernovas work to produce neutron stars.

In the story, human life is just an unintended side-effect.

I blame the mice.

buffy said:

I blame the mice.

Yes.

mollwollfumble said:

buffy said:

I blame the mice.

Yes.

little buggers have a hand in everything.

42

I think i might be a coding error.

call it a free-running discovery machine

creates possibility space, and happens upon order.

transition said:

call it a free-running discovery machine

creates possibility space, and happens upon order.

i’m thinking it takes a lot of time to extract useful structures from possibility space.

like take self-replicating dissipative structures, or organic life here on earth, including proto-life. Biogenisis.

time’s a constraint, a limitation.

hence the need for a discovery machine, a computer of sorts, perhaps many of them.

these bubbles the experiment runs in are in something else, and they need to be insulated in some way, so billions of years in the bubble is a very much shorter period outside it.

the trick might be in expansion, or a hint of, and there’s another physics external insulating this physics, then the view, or possibilities from external probably can’t be known to us.

there’s no bidirectionality of view, in fact the experimenter may not be able to extract information until the experiment has been terminated, or the act of extracting the (or any) information terminates the experiment.

it’s a bullshit idea, granted, just thinking this stuff makes me feel like I need antipsychotics.

there is no evidence or reason though to think such a thing impossible, or unlikely.

the scale of universe is 9/10ths illusion, generated from my human perspective and being in it, a product of, a product of the constraints of this physics.

it’s not aliens or God i’m contemplating, it can more just be an accident. Projections though are inescapable.

in a very obvious way organic life is a free-running discovery machine.

so my question is…

what do you need to do outside this bubble to make billions of years inside the bubble pass in a much shorter time from outside the bubble?

here on earth humans want faster computation, more parallel computation, and for whatever reason getting to another solar system seems to occupy some peoples minds.

clearly the seeds of computation didn’t originate with humans, there’s evidence of it more broadly in organic life. If you see replicators as being involved in try and test, apply a sort of systems theory(selection, evolution etc), conceptualize it so, you see what appears to be elements of computation.

clearly there are favorable energy gradients here on earth for it to happen.

so, if there is an outside, how does our time look from there? If our thermodynamics is sort of insulated.

transition said:

i’m thinking it takes a lot of time to extract useful structures from possibility space.

like take self-replicating dissipative structures, or organic life here on earth, including proto-life. Biogenisis.

time’s a constraint, a limitation.

hence the need for a discovery machine, a computer of sorts, perhaps many of them.

these bubbles the experiment runs in are in something else, and they need to be insulated in some way, so billions of years in the bubble is a very much shorter period outside it.

the trick might be in expansion, or a hint of, and there’s another physics external insulating this physics, then the view, or possibilities from external probably can’t be known to us.

there’s no bidirectionality of view, in fact the experimenter may not be able to extract information until the experiment has been terminated, or the act of extracting the (or any) information terminates the experiment.

it’s a bullshit idea, granted, just thinking this stuff makes me feel like I need antipsychotics.

there is no evidence or reason though to think such a thing impossible, or unlikely.

the scale of universe is 9/10ths illusion, generated from my human perspective and being in it, a product of, a product of the constraints of this physics.

it’s not aliens or God i’m contemplating, it can more just be an accident. Projections though are inescapable.

in a very obvious way organic life is a free-running discovery machine.

so my question is…

All this makes perfect sense to me. I agree completely.

> what do you need to do outside this bubble to make billions of years inside the bubble pass in a much shorter time from outside the bubble?

If we think of thermodynamics as “time’s arrow”, then by slowing down the thermodynamics, time can be made to pass more slowly from an intelligence point of view. Ie. cool your observers outside the bubble to a fraction of a degree above absolute zero.

transition said:

here on earth humans want faster computation, more parallel computation, and for whatever reason getting to another solar system seems to occupy some peoples minds.

clearly the seeds of computation didn’t originate with humans, there’s evidence of it more broadly in organic life. If you see replicators as being involved in try and test, apply a sort of systems theory(selection, evolution etc), conceptualize it so, you see what appears to be elements of computation.

clearly there are favorable energy gradients here on earth for it to happen.

so, if there is an outside, how does our time look from there? If our thermodynamics is sort of insulated.

You got it.

mollwollfumble said:

transition said:

i’m thinking it takes a lot of time to extract useful structures from possibility space.

like take self-replicating dissipative structures, or organic life here on earth, including proto-life. Biogenisis.

time’s a constraint, a limitation.

hence the need for a discovery machine, a computer of sorts, perhaps many of them.

these bubbles the experiment runs in are in something else, and they need to be insulated in some way, so billions of years in the bubble is a very much shorter period outside it.

the trick might be in expansion, or a hint of, and there’s another physics external insulating this physics, then the view, or possibilities from external probably can’t be known to us.

there’s no bidirectionality of view, in fact the experimenter may not be able to extract information until the experiment has been terminated, or the act of extracting the (or any) information terminates the experiment.

it’s a bullshit idea, granted, just thinking this stuff makes me feel like I need antipsychotics.

there is no evidence or reason though to think such a thing impossible, or unlikely.

the scale of universe is 9/10ths illusion, generated from my human perspective and being in it, a product of, a product of the constraints of this physics.

it’s not aliens or God i’m contemplating, it can more just be an accident. Projections though are inescapable.

in a very obvious way organic life is a free-running discovery machine.

so my question is…

All this makes perfect sense to me. I agree completely.

> what do you need to do outside this bubble to make billions of years inside the bubble pass in a much shorter time from outside the bubble?

If we think of thermodynamics as “time’s arrow”, then by slowing down the thermodynamics, time can be made to pass more slowly from an intelligence point of view. Ie. cool your observers outside the bubble to a fraction of a degree above absolute zero.

transition said:

here on earth humans want faster computation, more parallel computation, and for whatever reason getting to another solar system seems to occupy some peoples minds.

clearly the seeds of computation didn’t originate with humans, there’s evidence of it more broadly in organic life. If you see replicators as being involved in try and test, apply a sort of systems theory(selection, evolution etc), conceptualize it so, you see what appears to be elements of computation.

clearly there are favorable energy gradients here on earth for it to happen.

so, if there is an outside, how does our time look from there? If our thermodynamics is sort of insulated.

You got it.

How so Moll? The OP ends with a question.

my experimental universe is the expanding black disc, and the red cones the other physics (call it the antiverse). With the help of some naive license i’m calling two cones positioned so the opposite of a single disc positioned so (a balance of forces). The collapse of forces on one side of the cones results in the folding of all the structure (transformation) of the previously suspended universe into the remaining side, followed by a new singularity and new expansion (a flip-flop).

transition said:

my experimental universe is the expanding black disc, and the red cones the other physics (call it the antiverse). With the help of some naive license i’m calling two cones positioned so the opposite of a single disc positioned so (a balance of forces). The collapse of forces on one side of the cones results in the folding of all the structure (transformation) of the previously suspended universe into the remaining side, followed by a new singularity and new expansion (a flip-flop).

think that’s rather good.

(nearly submitted rather god)

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

my experimental universe is the expanding black disc, and the red cones the other physics (call it the antiverse). With the help of some naive license i’m calling two cones positioned so the opposite of a single disc positioned so (a balance of forces). The collapse of forces on one side of the cones results in the folding of all the structure (transformation) of the previously suspended universe into the remaining side, followed by a new singularity and new expansion (a flip-flop).

think that’s rather good.

(nearly submitted rather god)

tempted as I am to do the supporting math and post it here, I won’t because part of the theory is that as soon as anything inside explains this universe it collapses, and i’m not bastard that way.

:)

transition said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

my experimental universe is the expanding black disc, and the red cones the other physics (call it the antiverse). With the help of some naive license i’m calling two cones positioned so the opposite of a single disc positioned so (a balance of forces). The collapse of forces on one side of the cones results in the folding of all the structure (transformation) of the previously suspended universe into the remaining side, followed by a new singularity and new expansion (a flip-flop).

think that’s rather good.

(nearly submitted rather god)

tempted as I am to do the supporting math and post it here, I won’t because part of the theory is that as soon as anything inside explains this universe it collapses, and i’m not bastard that way.

:)

I believe thts there is a circumstance circumspect here somewhere.