Could you get balloons to float into the atmospheres of the planets and moons in our solar system.
I imagine you’d need different materials and gases but would they actually float upwards in a similar manner to how they do on Earth.

• I imagine you’d need different materials and gases but would they actually float upwards in a similar manner to how they do on Earth.

I would say, if it has an atmosphere and the gas in the a balloon is lighter than the atmospheric gases, and the total density of the balloon (including materials) is less than the atmosphere then I can’t see why not…

Cymek said:

Could you get balloons to float into the atmospheres of the planets and moons in our solar system.
I imagine you’d need different materials and gases but would they actually float upwards in a similar manner to how they do on Earth.

yes

dv said:

Cymek said:

Could you get balloons to float into the atmospheres of the planets and moons in our solar system.
I imagine you’d need different materials and gases but would they actually float upwards in a similar manner to how they do on Earth.

yes

So I wonder if you could have a lander that releases a number of them with equipment attached and they send data back to the lander

Cymek said:

dv said:

Cymek said:

Could you get balloons to float into the atmospheres of the planets and moons in our solar system.
I imagine you’d need different materials and gases but would they actually float upwards in a similar manner to how they do on Earth.

yes

So I wonder if you could have a lander that releases a number of them with equipment attached and they send data back to the lander

Yes.

https://mars.nasa.gov/programmissions/missions/missiontypes/balloons/

dv said:

https://mars.nasa.gov/programmissions/missions/missiontypes/balloons/

Danke

dv said:

Cymek said:

dv said:

yes

So I wonder if you could have a lander that releases a number of them with equipment attached and they send data back to the lander

Yes.

That’s affirmative, Houston.

dv said:

Cymek said:

dv said:

yes

So I wonder if you could have a lander that releases a number of them with equipment attached and they send data back to the lander

Yes.

This has already been done on Venus. The Russians released two balloons from the lander into the clouds that took measurements there sending the data direct to an orbiter and from there back to Earth.

The combination of gases that floats balloons on Earth will work equally well in the atmospheres of Venus, Mars and Titan. For planets and moons with thinner atmospheres it becomes more difficult to lift a weight (such as the weight of the balloon itself). I think you’d have real trouble getting a balloon to fly on Pluto, Io and Triton because the atmosphere of all three is about 100,000 times thinner than Earth’s.

For Uranus and Neptune, a hydrogen balloon could work. For Jupiter and Saturn it would have to be a “hot hydrogen” balloon. In none of these four cases could you make a lander.

There is a certain neighbor I would like to tie onto a weather balloon…

Tau.Neutrino said:

There is a certain neighbor I would like to tie onto a weather balloon…

She can hear your thoughts you know. She’ll flush the toilet at three in the morning now.

> For planets and moons with thinner atmospheres it becomes more difficult to lift a weight (such as the weight of the balloon itself). I think you’d have real trouble getting a balloon to fly on Pluto, Io and Triton because the atmosphere of all three is about 100,000 times thinner than Earth’s.

Which makes me wonder which of the three would be easiest to fly a balloon in. And how difficult it would be. The ability of a balloon to fly depends on density difference (nothing to do with pressure).

A high altitude balloon on Earth managed 53 km up, where the air density is 0.00068 kg/m ³ .
That’s 1,800 times thinner than at Earth’s surface. Still a long way short of Pluto, Io and Triton.

Darn difficult to find information on the density of Pluto’s atmosphere, not a thing about it since the New Horizons visit. But did find this
which translates to a density of Pluto’s atmosphere about equivalent to 80 km up on Earth, where the air density is 80,000 times thinner than at Earth’s surface. So the estimate of 100,000 times thinner is not too far out.

So to fly on Pluto, Io or Triton, you’d need a balloon with a volume near 60,000 * 170,000 cubic metres.

That’s a diameter in the ballpark of 2.2 km.

mollwollfumble said:

So to fly on Pluto, Io or Triton, you’d need a balloon with a volume near 60,000 * 170,000 cubic metres.

That’s a diameter in the ballpark of 2.2 km.

Um, that’s based on 60,000 cubic metres from the figure above. I’m not sure how they measure that volume because volume depends strongly on altitude. So I’m not sure if that diameter is correct. But you get the idea.

mollwollfumble said:

mollwollfumble said:

So to fly on Pluto, Io or Triton, you’d need a balloon with a volume near 60,000 * 170,000 cubic metres.

That’s a diameter in the ballpark of 2.2 km.

Um, that’s based on 60,000 cubic metres from the figure above. I’m not sure how they measure that volume because volume depends strongly on altitude. So I’m not sure if that diameter is correct. But you get the idea.

Yes, i see. You’re going to need more than a few packets of party balloons.

mollwollfumble said:

The ability of a balloon to fly depends on density difference (nothing to do with pressure).

How can it have nothing to do with pressure when density is proportional to pressure?

The Rev Dodgson said:

mollwollfumble said:

The ability of a balloon to fly depends on density difference (nothing to do with pressure).

How can it have nothing to do with pressure when density is proportional to pressure?

OK. What I mean if that the lift is calculated directly from the density difference and volume.
Lift = (ρ ₁ – ρ ₂ ) * v
Where lift is in kg.

mollwollfumble said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

mollwollfumble said:

The ability of a balloon to fly depends on density difference (nothing to do with pressure).

How can it have nothing to do with pressure when density is proportional to pressure?

OK. What I mean if that the lift is calculated directly from the density difference and volume.
Lift = (ρ ₁ – ρ ₂ ) * v
Where lift is in kg.

OK, that makes sense now :)

This question has piqued my interest, how about a kite?

Jing Joh said:

This question has piqued my interest, how about a kite?

A kite. Hmm. Hadn’t thought of that.

I used to have typical wind speeds for planets somewhere. I’ve seen a kite flown startlingly high in Jamaica. At least a km high. Higher than the clouds on a sunny day.

“The highest altitude by a single kite is 4,879.54 m (16,009 ft) and was achieved by Robert Moore (Australia) in Cobar, New South Wales, Australia on 23 September 2014. The record was attempted at Cable Downs, a 50,000 acre sheep station in far western New South Wales, Australia.”

For a kite, the lift is proportional to the square of the wind speed, and proportional to the atmosphere’s density.

On Earth, wind speeds average about 5 m/s.

On Venus, wind speeds at high altitude are very fast, but not near the surface. About 1.5 m/s.

On Titan, wind speeds near the surface are even less, about
0.2 m/s.

On Mars, the wind speed on the surface averages 10 m/s over the whole year. Winds up to 30 m/s and perhaps higher have been recorded.

So kite flying would tend to be easiest on Earth, but may be feasible on Venus, Titan and Mars. Most difficult on Titan.