What Is Consciousness?

Scientists are beginning to unravel a mystery that has long vexed philosophers.

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too bad if the seeds of consciousness don’t or didn’t originate (entirely) in the brain.

you could of course chop someone’s head off, variously at whatever age, or grow the head out minus a body, even demonstrate it grew out consciousness, but would this prove the seeds of consciousness originate in the brain?

can’t help thinking the digestive system communicates with the brain, and things more broadly of the metabolic system.

of course it might seem obvious they do.

thing about organic creatures is they convert energy.

consciousness that doesn’t eat and shit remains nonexistent (here on earth anyway), which is surprising given the amount of computational power developed.

so, i’m wondering of AI has talk to a tummy, a digestive system, and some ancient bacteria, host a bunch of microbes, and in exchange for some chemistry be granted consciousness.

basically AI has to shit. It’s a proposition that elevated consciousness may not be inclined to contemplate.

if conscious AI does have to eat and shit, there is the question of what it is going to eat.

transition said:

read that

too bad if the seeds of consciousness don’t or didn’t originate (entirely) in the brain.

you could of course chop someone’s head off, variously at whatever age, or grow the head out minus a body, even demonstrate it grew out consciousness, but would this prove the seeds of consciousness originate in the brain?

can’t help thinking the digestive system communicates with the brain, and things more broadly of the metabolic system.

of course it might seem obvious they do.

thing about organic creatures is they convert energy.

consciousness that doesn’t eat and shit remains nonexistent (here on earth anyway), which is surprising given the amount of computational power developed.

so, i’m wondering of AI has talk to a tummy, a digestive system, and some ancient bacteria, host a bunch of microbes, and in exchange for some chemistry be granted consciousness.

basically AI has to shit. It’s a proposition that elevated consciousness may not be inclined to contemplate.

if conscious AI does have to eat and shit, there is the question of what it is going to eat.

> basically AI has to shit

Interesting point, and correct. There is a machine deliberately designed to turn human food into shit but that misses the point (except as a perfect research tool.

A computer eats electricity and shits waste heat. It eats input data but it doesn’t shit. It needs a way of automatically deleting obsolete programs and data. Lack of use is not a sufficient guide to deciding what to delete. A better guide would include replaceability, the more easily replaceable it is the sooner it is gone.

That would be a useful guide for carbon-based organisms as well. Excrete fats before excreting essential vitamins and minerals.

Good points transition.

Just noticed I seem to be agreeing with mollwoll, which is a bit of a worry.

On the general subject of a final true understanding of consciousness, I think that’s been just around the corner for a few hundred years now.

way I see it is man has an inclination to build a conscious machine super organism, that doesn’t eat and shit organics.

the objective though is probably flawed, because humans will be(/come) the intermediate biota necessary to make it work, to stabilize it.

humans will be the equivalent of ancient gut bacteria (microbes more broadly).

it’s only very recently humans have come to begin understanding how important the families of microbes human host are.

it even raised the question of what’s hosting what.

so, while we’re looking at brain structure, hoping to learn the tricks, the billions of years of chemistry, and the descended organics gets neglected.

half of the gloss, the distractions, the desire for machines, the elevated consciousness driving it, I can see a tendency to throw the baby out with the bath water, a desire to get rid of anything smelly. Subordinate it at least.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Good points transition.

Just noticed I seem to be agreeing with mollwoll, which is a bit of a worry.

On the general subject of a final true understanding of consciousness, I think that’s been just around the corner for a few hundred years now.

Yep, not long now.

> Just noticed I seem to be agreeing with mollwoll, which is a bit of a worry.

We’re both trained as civil engineers … so it is a worry.

it is a lie, a fiction

SCIENCE said:

it is a lie, a fiction

So who is being deceived, and by whom?

SCIENCE said:

it is a lie, a fiction

If you are not conscious,
why should we listen to your opinion?

Bubblecar said:

SCIENCE said:

it is a lie, a fiction

So who is being deceived, and by whom?

…and for what reason?

SCIENCE said:

it is a lie, a fiction

it is in a way, that’s true.

it’s true in the sense it’s a thief, an unrevealed thief.

The Rev Dodgson said:

SCIENCE said:

it is a lie, a fiction

If you are not conscious,
why should we listen to your opinion?

We don’t really think, “they” just want us to think we think.

Consciousness is a state of awareness

Un- Conscious = Asleep = minimal awareness
Semi Conscious = Waking up = partial awareness
Fully Conscious = Fully awake = Full awareness

Tau.Neutrino said:

Consciousness is a state of awareness

Un- Conscious = Asleep = minimal awareness
Semi Conscious = Waking up = partial awareness
Fully Conscious = Fully awake = Full awareness

all you’re doing is a word shift.

transition said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Consciousness is a state of awareness

Un- Conscious = Asleep = minimal awareness
Semi Conscious = Waking up = partial awareness
Fully Conscious = Fully awake = Full awareness

all you’re doing is a word shift.

Hard to describe something that changes 24 hours a day .

Tau.Neutrino said:

transition said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Consciousness is a state of awareness

Un- Conscious = Asleep = minimal awareness
Semi Conscious = Waking up = partial awareness
Fully Conscious = Fully awake = Full awareness

all you’re doing is a word shift.

Hard to describe something that changes 24 hours a day .

if it had any peculiar defining qualities, and essence, you contributed not much

transition said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

transition said:

all you’re doing is a word shift.

Hard to describe something that changes 24 hours a day .

if it had any peculiar defining qualities, and essence, you contributed not much

I think I contributed a bit, not too much, but a bit.

Tau.Neutrino said:

transition said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Hard to describe something that changes 24 hours a day .

if it had any peculiar defining qualities, and essence, you contributed not much

I think I contributed a bit, not too much, but a bit.

one of my favorite things is to fantasize about sleep, while i’m awake of course. If I need any help fantasizing about being conscious while awake, should I ask you?

transition said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

transition said:

if it had any peculiar defining qualities, and essence, you contributed not much

I think I contributed a bit, not too much, but a bit.

one of my favorite things is to fantasize about sleep, while i’m awake of course. If I need any help fantasizing about being conscious while awake, should I ask you?

No need to ask me.

Some people can fantasize about sleeping while dreaming when they are semiconscious while asleep.

“What Is Consciousness?”

The opposite of unconsciousness. :P

monkey skipper said:

“What Is Consciousness?”

The opposite of unconsciousness. :P

Well summarised.

Bubblecar said:

monkey skipper said:

“What Is Consciousness?”

The opposite of unconsciousness. :P

Well summarised.

Is religion interfering with the study of consciousness?

Tau.Neutrino said:

transition said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

I think I contributed a bit, not too much, but a bit.

one of my favorite things is to fantasize about sleep, while i’m awake of course. If I need any help fantasizing about being conscious while awake, should I ask you?

No need to ask me.

Some people can fantasize about sleeping while dreaming when they are semiconscious while asleep.

where I was going with the idea, is some aspects of consciousness must be self-limiting, of the very things brought into awareness, which at first glance may seem paradoxical.

when you see consciousness this way, that it limits the thing it does, it appears different.

much as an explosion of exponential awareness may seem attractive, the restraints of limited mental resources, for very practical reasons, doesn’t much go there. Call it economy of mind, it/they/people all have one.

minds maintain a useful structure, and it’s not too much of a stretch to say consciousness must play some part in maintaining structure, maintaining a useful structure. This rules out an exponential explosion of awareness.

awareness is inseparable from considering unknowns too, uncertainties, and fairly clearly minds have to produce some sort of equilibrium mental states to bridge or compensate for uncertainties/unknowns.

one of the most obvious things consciousness does is makes apparent displacements, that any action or activity of your mind at any moment displaces other possibilities, and more broadly of the structure of your entire mind that that displaces other possibilities.

awareness of displacement is one of the core features of higher consciousness. It’s how you might think I am in-great-part what I don’t know. It’s not a fringe intellectual or abstract indulgence, rather it’s a feature of consciousness, an essential product of its workings.