Would it be possible to physically simulate solar dynamics on Earth?

Phenomena like this?

https://youtu.be/3Ghaf2du-XM

If I have a magnetic fluid, either plasma or iron filings suspended in liquid. And if I suddenly switch on an electromagnet. Could I generate phenomena like this? Filmed in slow motion of course, the entire action would last a fraction of a second.

If not, then perhaps start with a bubble blown by an air jet that is suddenly switched on?

In the video, the solar plasma loop starts out hot and cools, causing it to rain back on the Sun over a period of 10 hours.

mollwollfumble said:

Would it be possible to physically simulate solar dynamics on Earth?

Phenomena like this?

https://youtu.be/3Ghaf2du-XM

If I have a magnetic fluid, either plasma or iron filings suspended in liquid. And if I suddenly switch on an electromagnet. Could I generate phenomena like this? Filmed in slow motion of course, the entire action would last a fraction of a second.

If not, then perhaps start with a bubble blown by an air jet that is suddenly switched on?

In the video, the solar plasma loop starts out hot and cools, causing it to rain back on the Sun over a period of 10 hours.

Video from https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap180527.html

Nice video, I was wondering how it was taken as it didn’t look like CGI effects, it looked real, and it is.

“On July 19, 2012, an eruption occurred on the sun that produced all three. A moderately powerful solar flare exploded on the Sun’s lower right hand limb, sending out light and radiation. Next came a CME, which shot off to the right out into space. And then, the Sun treated viewers to one of its dazzling magnetic displays — a phenomenon known as coronal rain.

Over the course of the next day, hot plasma in the corona cooled and condensed along strong magnetic fields in the region. Magnetic fields, themselves, are invisible, but the charged plasma is forced to move along the lines, showing up brightly in the extreme ultraviolet wavelength of 304 Angstroms, which highlights material at a temperature of about 50,000 Kelvin. This plasma acts as a tracer, helping scientists watch the dance of magnetic fields on the Sun, outlining the fields as it slowly falls back to the solar surface.

The footage in this video was collected by the Solar Dynamics Observatory’s AIA instrument. SDO collected one frame every 12 seconds, and the movie plays at 30 frames per second, so each second in this video corresponds to 6 minutes of real time. The video covers 12:30 a.m. EDT to 10:00 p.m. EDT on July 19, 2012.”

Thank you. That was amazing. And huge.

> If I have a magnetic fluid, either plasma or iron filings suspended in liquid.

If simulated using a liquid, I’d want either a very large size or a very low (kinematic) viscosity. Trouble is, without going to a superfluid, I can’t really get much lower than the viscosity of water. To beat the viscosity of water at room temperature, heat it up to near boiling point and the viscosity drops to 30%.

But I’ve had a quick look at everything from acetone, carbon disulphide, mercury, and liquid aluminium to liquid hydrogen, and none of these beats the kinematic viscosity of water near boiling point by more than about a factor of two. Annoying. Perhaps there’s a fundamental law of physics involved here that I don’t know about.

If making using a plasma, ionisation of gas at a cathode could be used but then the force of gravity is very much weaker than the electrostatic repulsion. But on the Sun, the electrostatic repulsion is very much weaker than gravity. Perhaps I can use electrostatic attraction as a replacement for gravity.

With a liquid, my best physical simulation method looks like running a strong electromagnet under a bath of molten metal near boiling point. Choosing metal in order to get the electric contuctivity. High temperature to get low kinematic viscosity. Here are some boiling points of metals.

Metal, boiling point (K)
Mercury, 630
Potassium, 1032
Zinc, 1180
Rubidium, 961
Cadmium, 1040

So it looks like hot mercury. I could hold that temperature in pyrex, but none of the others. What would happen if I suddenly switched a large electrmagnet on under a bath of hot mercury? Could I generate something similar to a coronal loop?

mollwollfumble said:

If making using a plasma, ionisation of gas at a cathode could be used but then the force of gravity is very much weaker than the electrostatic repulsion. But on the Sun, the electrostatic repulsion is very much weaker than gravity. Perhaps I can use electrostatic attraction as a replacement for gravity.

With a liquid, my best physical simulation method looks like running a strong electromagnet under a bath of molten metal near boiling point. Choosing metal in order to get the electric contuctivity. High temperature to get low kinematic viscosity. Here are some boiling points of metals.

Metal, boiling point (K)
Mercury, 630
Potassium, 1032
Zinc, 1180
Rubidium, 961
Cadmium, 1040

So it looks like hot mercury. I could hold that temperature in pyrex, but none of the others. What would happen if I suddenly switched a large electrmagnet on under a bath of hot mercury? Could I generate something similar to a coronal loop?

It doesn’t sound overly safe

Cymek said:

It doesn’t sound overly safe

Safer than experimenting with Sarin.

And I don’t think hot mercury will catch fire.

mollwollfumble said:

If making using a plasma, ionisation of gas at a cathode could be used but then the force of gravity is very much weaker than the electrostatic repulsion. But on the Sun, the electrostatic repulsion is very much weaker than gravity. Perhaps I can use electrostatic attraction as a replacement for gravity.

With a liquid, my best physical simulation method looks like running a strong electromagnet under a bath of molten metal near boiling point. Choosing metal in order to get the electric contuctivity. High temperature to get low kinematic viscosity. Here are some boiling points of metals.

Metal, boiling point (K)
Mercury, 630
Potassium, 1032
Zinc, 1180
Rubidium, 961
Cadmium, 1040

So it looks like hot mercury. I could hold that temperature in pyrex, but none of the others. What would happen if I suddenly switched a large electrmagnet on under a bath of hot mercury? Could I generate something similar to a coronal loop?

Why would you need to hold it in boro-silicate glass? Why not another metal? Or metal carbide? (I realise there could be auto-alloying problems with some metals.)

Michael V said:

mollwollfumble said:

If making using a plasma, ionisation of gas at a cathode could be used but then the force of gravity is very much weaker than the electrostatic repulsion. But on the Sun, the electrostatic repulsion is very much weaker than gravity. Perhaps I can use electrostatic attraction as a replacement for gravity.

With a liquid, my best physical simulation method looks like running a strong electromagnet under a bath of molten metal near boiling point. Choosing metal in order to get the electric contuctivity. High temperature to get low kinematic viscosity. Here are some boiling points of metals.

Metal, boiling point (K)
Mercury, 630
Potassium, 1032
Zinc, 1180
Rubidium, 961
Cadmium, 1040

So it looks like hot mercury. I could hold that temperature in pyrex, but none of the others. What would happen if I suddenly switched a large electrmagnet on under a bath of hot mercury? Could I generate something similar to a coronal loop?

Why would you need to hold it in boro-silicate glass? Why not another metal? Or metal carbide? (I realise there could be auto-alloying problems with some metals.)

I would (hypothetically) be looking for interactions between transient electric currents in the mercury and transient magnetic fields from the electromagnet. Putting another metal in between would complicate the results due to electric currents within the metal.

Metal carbide would be fine, but more expensive than glass. For metals at higher temperature such as those listed above, porcelain may suffice. If not then alumina or magnesia.

mollwollfumble said:

Michael V said:

mollwollfumble said:

If making using a plasma, ionisation of gas at a cathode could be used but then the force of gravity is very much weaker than the electrostatic repulsion. But on the Sun, the electrostatic repulsion is very much weaker than gravity. Perhaps I can use electrostatic attraction as a replacement for gravity.

With a liquid, my best physical simulation method looks like running a strong electromagnet under a bath of molten metal near boiling point. Choosing metal in order to get the electric contuctivity. High temperature to get low kinematic viscosity. Here are some boiling points of metals.

Metal, boiling point (K)
Mercury, 630
Potassium, 1032
Zinc, 1180
Rubidium, 961
Cadmium, 1040

So it looks like hot mercury. I could hold that temperature in pyrex, but none of the others. What would happen if I suddenly switched a large electrmagnet on under a bath of hot mercury? Could I generate something similar to a coronal loop?

Why would you need to hold it in boro-silicate glass? Why not another metal? Or metal carbide? (I realise there could be auto-alloying problems with some metals.)

I would (hypothetically) be looking for interactions between transient electric currents in the mercury and transient magnetic fields from the electromagnet. Putting another metal in between would complicate the results due to electric currents within the metal.

Metal carbide would be fine, but more expensive than glass. For metals at higher temperature such as those listed above, porcelain may suffice. If not then alumina or magnesia.

Fair enough. Considered agate? It’s used in mortars and pestles. Ground into bowls. Silica has a high melting point.

Reproducing Type II White-Light Solar Flare Observations with Electron and Proton Beam Simulations
https://arxiv.org/pdf/1806.00249

Nah, just simulations, not physical simulations.