Date: 9/06/2018 21:48:40
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1237693
Subject: origins the journey of humankind

Anyone else watching this? It leads me to ask so many questions.

Such as:
Who invented the horse shoe?
What would the world be like now if the horseshoe had never been invented?
What prompted people to make the first iron rails?
Where did the idea for the internal combustion engine come from?
Are Australian roads from say Brisbane to Darwin strong enough to take Australia’s heaviest tanks without damage?

Reply Quote

Date: 9/06/2018 21:49:58
From: buffy
ID: 1237695
Subject: re: origins the journey of humankind

>>Are Australian roads from say Brisbane to Darwin strong enough to take Australia’s heaviest tanks without damage?<<

Extrapolating from the damage to the roads around here from the B double log trucks…probly not…

Reply Quote

Date: 9/06/2018 21:55:04
From: party_pants
ID: 1237697
Subject: re: origins the journey of humankind

mollwollfumble said:


What prompted people to make the first iron rails?

they wore out less quickly than wooden rails.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/06/2018 22:09:19
From: AwesomeO
ID: 1237703
Subject: re: origins the journey of humankind

Noticed the gum trees?

Reply Quote

Date: 9/06/2018 22:14:55
From: transition
ID: 1237706
Subject: re: origins the journey of humankind

>Where did the idea for the internal combustion engine come from?

probably water pumps> steam engine types>

guessing

thinking now, that rockets and cannons predate the internal combustion engine, bit must have contributed to the development of the idea..

Reply Quote

Date: 9/06/2018 22:16:14
From: AwesomeO
ID: 1237707
Subject: re: origins the journey of humankind

transition said:


>Where did the idea for the internal combustion engine come from?

probably water pumps> steam engine types>

guessing

thinking now, that rockets and cannons predate the internal combustion engine, bit must have contributed to the development of the idea..

There was an attempt at a gun powder internal combustion engine.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/06/2018 22:31:46
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1237714
Subject: re: origins the journey of humankind

Questions such as:
How vulnerable is the hardware of the internet to enemy attack?

Reply Quote

Date: 9/06/2018 22:45:10
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1237716
Subject: re: origins the journey of humankind

mollwollfumble said:


Questions such as:
How vulnerable is the hardware of the internet to enemy attack?

Very, if its on the surface, some are deep in mountains, some are located in polar regions, some are now being located on the seafloor / under the seafloor?

Far underground, shielding etc

While lots of server farms are in big tin sheds and have very known locations some have redundancy and off site backup, some dont.

Better to keep important ones hidden, as compact as practical and able to be transported easily if possible.

Some are very noisy across the frequency spectrum and can be seen, lots can be disabled if they have poor shielding by using the frequency spectrum.

Lots require heaps of space, server sizes come down with successive generations.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/06/2018 22:46:50
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1237717
Subject: re: origins the journey of humankind

AwesomeO said:


transition said:

>Where did the idea for the internal combustion engine come from?

probably water pumps> steam engine types>

guessing

thinking now, that rockets and cannons predate the internal combustion engine, bit must have contributed to the development of the idea..

There was an attempt at a gun powder internal combustion engine.

Street – 1794
The next engine, invented by Robert Street, and for which he took out a patent (No 1983) in 1794, was a great advance. Inflammable gas was exploded in a cylinder and drove up a piston by its expansion, thus producing the first example of a practical internal combustion engine. The gas was obtained by sprinkling spirits of turpentine or petroleum at the bottom of a cylinder, and evaporating them by a fire beneath.

The up-stroke of the piston admitted a certain quantity of air, which mixed with the inflammable vapour. A flame was next sucked in from a light outside the cylinder, through a valve uncovered by the piston, and forced down the piston of a pump for raising water. In this engine many modern ideas were foreshadowed, especially the ignition by an external flame, and the admission of air by the suction of the piston during the up-stroke.

It took more than 80 years to go from that to:

1876: Nikolaus Otto, working with Gottlieb Daimler and Wilhelm Maybach, patented the compressed charge, four-stroke engine.

Gunpowder engine:

17th century: Christiaan Huygens designs gunpowder to drive water pumps, to supply 3000 cubic meters of water/day for the Versailles palace gardens, essentially creating the first idea of a rudimentary internal combustion piston engine.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/06/2018 22:53:08
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1237718
Subject: re: origins the journey of humankind

Tau.Neutrino said:


mollwollfumble said:

Questions such as:
How vulnerable is the hardware of the internet to enemy attack?

Very, if its on the surface, some are deep in mountains, some are located in polar regions, some are now being located on the seafloor / under the seafloor?

Far underground, shielding etc

While lots of server farms are in big tin sheds and have very known locations some have redundancy and off site backup, some dont.

Better to keep important ones hidden, as compact as practical and able to be transported easily if possible.

Some are very noisy across the frequency spectrum and can be seen, lots can be disabled if they have poor shielding by using the frequency spectrum.

Lots require heaps of space, server sizes come down with successive generations.

Known locations of communication towers, city exchange centers, undersea cables etc

Fake cell towers and exchanges locations can be used as decoy.

Fake undersea cables etc.

Came from fake tanks in warfare.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/06/2018 22:53:36
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1237719
Subject: re: origins the journey of humankind

Tau.Neutrino said:


mollwollfumble said:

Questions such as:
How vulnerable is the hardware of the internet to enemy attack?

Very, if its on the surface, some are deep in mountains, some are located in polar regions, some are now being located on the seafloor / under the seafloor?

Far underground, shielding etc

While lots of server farms are in big tin sheds and have very known locations some have redundancy and off site backup, some dont.

Better to keep important ones hidden, as compact as practical and able to be transported easily if possible.

Some are very noisy across the frequency spectrum and can be seen, lots can be disabled if they have poor shielding by using the frequency spectrum.

Lots require heaps of space, server sizes come down with successive generations.

Undersea cables seem especially vulnerable to trawlers. One cable between Perth and Jakarta was accidentally cut twice in six months for example.

As for on or under the seafloor. Both. On top for the flat parts of the deep sea. Under for steep terrain, shipping channels, shallow water.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/06/2018 22:55:57
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1237720
Subject: re: origins the journey of humankind

Tau.Neutrino said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

mollwollfumble said:

Questions such as:
How vulnerable is the hardware of the internet to enemy attack?

Very, if its on the surface, some are deep in mountains, some are located in polar regions, some are now being located on the seafloor / under the seafloor?

Far underground, shielding etc

While lots of server farms are in big tin sheds and have very known locations some have redundancy and off site backup, some dont.

Better to keep important ones hidden, as compact as practical and able to be transported easily if possible.

Some are very noisy across the frequency spectrum and can be seen, lots can be disabled if they have poor shielding by using the frequency spectrum.

Lots require heaps of space, server sizes come down with successive generations.

Known locations of communication towers, city exchange centers, undersea cables etc

Fake cell towers and exchanges locations can be used as decoy.

Fake undersea cables etc.

Came from fake tanks in warfare.

> Fake cell towers and undersea cables

:-))

Reply Quote

Date: 9/06/2018 23:21:45
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1237727
Subject: re: origins the journey of humankind

This program, considering the number involved is beyond description, other than to say it is hideous.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/06/2018 23:25:54
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1237728
Subject: re: origins the journey of humankind

All I know is that tanks are transported to battle zones on low loaders.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/06/2018 23:27:42
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1237730
Subject: re: origins the journey of humankind

Peak Warming Man said:


All I know is that tanks are transported to battle zones on low loaders.

Well at least you learnt something.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/06/2018 23:38:08
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1237731
Subject: re: origins the journey of humankind

PermeateFree said:


This program, considering the number involved is beyond description, other than to say it is hideous.

It would be better as a book, just dialog and still pictures, without music or sound effects.

The historical recreations are hideous.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/06/2018 23:47:20
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1237732
Subject: re: origins the journey of humankind

mollwollfumble said:


Anyone else watching this? It leads me to ask so many questions.

Such as:

Are Australian roads from say Brisbane to Darwin strong enough to take Australia’s heaviest tanks without damage?


the game plan probably isn’t to defend darwin, draw a pencil line across from brisbane and let the mosquitoes, snakes, ants and spiders do their work.

germany built heavy duty motorways to transport tanks from the factories straight out of germany to the battlefront – israel has done this too, they have heavy duty highways leading into the west bank to take soldiers, tanks and APCs to the enemy positions.

nowadays anything of any worth is already owned and operated by the enemy so moving the tanks around is really a game rather than any serious defence of the country; normally training conducted by land forces in australia is directed to training australian troops to fight in american led wars in the middle east, no fighting will ever happen here. in the event of war any enemy with a reasonably good icbm system will shut australia down in two weeks by hitting the few oil refineries australia (theres only 7 oil refineries in australia). conventional warheads will knock out the 7 refineries being knocked out will see the country descend into chaos fairly quickly as various multicultural groups gather and start to assert dominance in their own areas (the gov collapses and disappears fairly quickly). canberra is land locked and produces NOTHING of any consequence , parliament will become a empty, looted and burnt out shell by the end of say 2 months (the gov abandons the city – no oil, canberra collapses – that goes for most inland communities that rely on trucks to bring food and supplies from the coast.

major airports fall virtually silent save for military transport rushing gov personnel out of the country (somewhere nicer)

martial law is imposed but quickly collapses, law and order shrinks to say , 300m around police stations still with electricity and water

Reply Quote

Date: 9/06/2018 23:50:40
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1237733
Subject: re: origins the journey of humankind

wookiemeister said:


mollwollfumble said:

Anyone else watching this? It leads me to ask so many questions.

Such as:

Are Australian roads from say Brisbane to Darwin strong enough to take Australia’s heaviest tanks without damage?


the game plan probably isn’t to defend darwin, draw a pencil line across from brisbane and let the mosquitoes, snakes, ants and spiders do their work.

germany built heavy duty motorways to transport tanks from the factories straight out of germany to the battlefront – israel has done this too, they have heavy duty highways leading into the west bank to take soldiers, tanks and APCs to the enemy positions.

nowadays anything of any worth is already owned and operated by the enemy so moving the tanks around is really a game rather than any serious defence of the country; normally training conducted by land forces in australia is directed to training australian troops to fight in american led wars in the middle east, no fighting will ever happen here. in the event of war any enemy with a reasonably good icbm system will shut australia down in two weeks by hitting the few oil refineries australia (theres only 7 oil refineries in australia). conventional warheads will knock out the 7 refineries being knocked out will see the country descend into chaos fairly quickly as various multicultural groups gather and start to assert dominance in their own areas (the gov collapses and disappears fairly quickly). canberra is land locked and produces NOTHING of any consequence , parliament will become a empty, looted and burnt out shell by the end of say 2 months (the gov abandons the city – no oil, canberra collapses – that goes for most inland communities that rely on trucks to bring food and supplies from the coast.

major airports fall virtually silent save for military transport rushing gov personnel out of the country (somewhere nicer)

martial law is imposed but quickly collapses, law and order shrinks to say , 300m around police stations still with electricity and water

And people will pay unscrupulous redoubt owners obscene amounts of money for somewhere safe to camp.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/06/2018 23:54:32
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1237734
Subject: re: origins the journey of humankind

australia doesn’t make or invent very many things so things will collapse fast

most stuff is made in china

most stuff made in china has a short life

the australian gov likes short lived goods because every product bought means more tax revenue – if something lasts a long time then very little tax can be collected. the 900 dollars given out during the GFC is most likely now in the bank account of the gambling industry or in the rubbish tip in the form of televisions.

inventing things is fine – using things and making those things is quite another matter – the steam engine wasn’t used in a practical way for two thousand years for example

Reply Quote

Date: 10/06/2018 00:01:52
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1237735
Subject: re: origins the journey of humankind

Peak Warming Man said:


wookiemeister said:

mollwollfumble said:

Anyone else watching this? It leads me to ask so many questions.

Such as:

Are Australian roads from say Brisbane to Darwin strong enough to take Australia’s heaviest tanks without damage?


the game plan probably isn’t to defend darwin, draw a pencil line across from brisbane and let the mosquitoes, snakes, ants and spiders do their work.

germany built heavy duty motorways to transport tanks from the factories straight out of germany to the battlefront – israel has done this too, they have heavy duty highways leading into the west bank to take soldiers, tanks and APCs to the enemy positions.

nowadays anything of any worth is already owned and operated by the enemy so moving the tanks around is really a game rather than any serious defence of the country; normally training conducted by land forces in australia is directed to training australian troops to fight in american led wars in the middle east, no fighting will ever happen here. in the event of war any enemy with a reasonably good icbm system will shut australia down in two weeks by hitting the few oil refineries australia (theres only 7 oil refineries in australia). conventional warheads will knock out the 7 refineries being knocked out will see the country descend into chaos fairly quickly as various multicultural groups gather and start to assert dominance in their own areas (the gov collapses and disappears fairly quickly). canberra is land locked and produces NOTHING of any consequence , parliament will become a empty, looted and burnt out shell by the end of say 2 months (the gov abandons the city – no oil, canberra collapses – that goes for most inland communities that rely on trucks to bring food and supplies from the coast.

major airports fall virtually silent save for military transport rushing gov personnel out of the country (somewhere nicer)

martial law is imposed but quickly collapses, law and order shrinks to say , 300m around police stations still with electricity and water

And people will pay unscrupulous redoubt owners obscene amounts of money for somewhere safe to camp.


if you are not near the sea or a major highway near the sea , you’ll have problems. the redoubt will most likely by abandoned with no trucks coming. the owner of the redoubt will most likely pack his belongings onto a large vehicle and ride atop with a shotgun/ rifle. thousands of broken down vehicles litter the roads that will split and become overgrown in the coming years. mining stops as the oil stops – the mines are abandoned. all human activity withdraws to the coast. no more sprawling housing estates (the estates are abandoned as they are too far out – they too become abandoned and populated by bandits. of a night the police are forced to make culls of the gangs that form using helicopter gunships to keep them pruned. the CBDs of major cities become crowded with walls being built for protection)

3 years after the refineries were attacked all mining activity has stopped, australian subs lay idle and rusting, the enemy just turned off the oil tap.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/06/2018 00:03:32
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1237738
Subject: re: origins the journey of humankind

the solar farms are looted as energy becomes valuable or commandeered by the gov

Reply Quote

Date: 10/06/2018 00:05:10
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1237740
Subject: re: origins the journey of humankind

wookiemeister said:


Peak Warming Man said:

wookiemeister said:

the game plan probably isn’t to defend darwin, draw a pencil line across from brisbane and let the mosquitoes, snakes, ants and spiders do their work.

germany built heavy duty motorways to transport tanks from the factories straight out of germany to the battlefront – israel has done this too, they have heavy duty highways leading into the west bank to take soldiers, tanks and APCs to the enemy positions.

nowadays anything of any worth is already owned and operated by the enemy so moving the tanks around is really a game rather than any serious defence of the country; normally training conducted by land forces in australia is directed to training australian troops to fight in american led wars in the middle east, no fighting will ever happen here. in the event of war any enemy with a reasonably good icbm system will shut australia down in two weeks by hitting the few oil refineries australia (theres only 7 oil refineries in australia). conventional warheads will knock out the 7 refineries being knocked out will see the country descend into chaos fairly quickly as various multicultural groups gather and start to assert dominance in their own areas (the gov collapses and disappears fairly quickly). canberra is land locked and produces NOTHING of any consequence , parliament will become a empty, looted and burnt out shell by the end of say 2 months (the gov abandons the city – no oil, canberra collapses – that goes for most inland communities that rely on trucks to bring food and supplies from the coast.

major airports fall virtually silent save for military transport rushing gov personnel out of the country (somewhere nicer)

martial law is imposed but quickly collapses, law and order shrinks to say , 300m around police stations still with electricity and water

And people will pay unscrupulous redoubt owners obscene amounts of money for somewhere safe to camp.


if you are not near the sea or a major highway near the sea , you’ll have problems. the redoubt will most likely by abandoned with no trucks coming. the owner of the redoubt will most likely pack his belongings onto a large vehicle and ride atop with a shotgun/ rifle. thousands of broken down vehicles litter the roads that will split and become overgrown in the coming years. mining stops as the oil stops – the mines are abandoned. all human activity withdraws to the coast. no more sprawling housing estates (the estates are abandoned as they are too far out – they too become abandoned and populated by bandits. of a night the police are forced to make culls of the gangs that form using helicopter gunships to keep them pruned. the CBDs of major cities become crowded with walls being built for protection)

3 years after the refineries were attacked all mining activity has stopped, australian subs lay idle and rusting, the enemy just turned off the oil tap.

You are very perceptive of current day Qld.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/06/2018 00:12:50
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1237744
Subject: re: origins the journey of humankind

PermeateFree said:


wookiemeister said:

Peak Warming Man said:

And people will pay unscrupulous redoubt owners obscene amounts of money for somewhere safe to camp.


if you are not near the sea or a major highway near the sea , you’ll have problems. the redoubt will most likely by abandoned with no trucks coming. the owner of the redoubt will most likely pack his belongings onto a large vehicle and ride atop with a shotgun/ rifle. thousands of broken down vehicles litter the roads that will split and become overgrown in the coming years. mining stops as the oil stops – the mines are abandoned. all human activity withdraws to the coast. no more sprawling housing estates (the estates are abandoned as they are too far out – they too become abandoned and populated by bandits. of a night the police are forced to make culls of the gangs that form using helicopter gunships to keep them pruned. the CBDs of major cities become crowded with walls being built for protection)

3 years after the refineries were attacked all mining activity has stopped, australian subs lay idle and rusting, the enemy just turned off the oil tap.

You are very perceptive of current day Qld.


theres no real organisation in australia – sure there’s agencies that “organise” things but they are useless and full of lunatics promoting social change that help no one except take a hammer to proven success. all forms of any reasonable thinking has been lost. things are sinking like in the rest of western civilization but not as fast as europe.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/06/2018 00:16:58
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1237747
Subject: re: origins the journey of humankind

going back to inventing – its nothing without real capacity to bring into actual practical use

capacity to produce relies on training / education in real subjects

the only way to head off the potential disaster of oil supply is to electrify transport. even if oil is shut off the highways still function until smaller oil producing units can be created

Reply Quote

Date: 10/06/2018 00:17:29
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1237748
Subject: re: origins the journey of humankind

wookiemeister said:


PermeateFree said:

wookiemeister said:

if you are not near the sea or a major highway near the sea , you’ll have problems. the redoubt will most likely by abandoned with no trucks coming. the owner of the redoubt will most likely pack his belongings onto a large vehicle and ride atop with a shotgun/ rifle. thousands of broken down vehicles litter the roads that will split and become overgrown in the coming years. mining stops as the oil stops – the mines are abandoned. all human activity withdraws to the coast. no more sprawling housing estates (the estates are abandoned as they are too far out – they too become abandoned and populated by bandits. of a night the police are forced to make culls of the gangs that form using helicopter gunships to keep them pruned. the CBDs of major cities become crowded with walls being built for protection)

3 years after the refineries were attacked all mining activity has stopped, australian subs lay idle and rusting, the enemy just turned off the oil tap.

You are very perceptive of current day Qld.


theres no real organisation in australia – sure there’s agencies that “organise” things but they are useless and full of lunatics promoting social change that help no one except take a hammer to proven success. all forms of any reasonable thinking has been lost. things are sinking like in the rest of western civilization but not as fast as europe.

I blame it on the weather.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/06/2018 00:18:16
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1237750
Subject: re: origins the journey of humankind

PermeateFree said:


wookiemeister said:

PermeateFree said:

You are very perceptive of current day Qld.


theres no real organisation in australia – sure there’s agencies that “organise” things but they are useless and full of lunatics promoting social change that help no one except take a hammer to proven success. all forms of any reasonable thinking has been lost. things are sinking like in the rest of western civilization but not as fast as europe.

I blame it on the weather.


blame it on the boogie

Reply Quote

Date: 10/06/2018 00:24:19
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1237751
Subject: re: origins the journey of humankind

wookiemeister said:


PermeateFree said:

wookiemeister said:

theres no real organisation in australia – sure there’s agencies that “organise” things but they are useless and full of lunatics promoting social change that help no one except take a hammer to proven success. all forms of any reasonable thinking has been lost. things are sinking like in the rest of western civilization but not as fast as europe.

I blame it on the weather.


blame it on the boogie

While you’re at it Wook, will Kim and Trump solve the North Korean problem. Will China fight to defend its island integrity in the China Sea?

Reply Quote

Date: 10/06/2018 00:36:14
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1237754
Subject: re: origins the journey of humankind

PermeateFree said:


wookiemeister said:

PermeateFree said:

I blame it on the weather.


blame it on the boogie

While you’re at it Wook, will Kim and Trump solve the North Korean problem. Will China fight to defend its island integrity in the China Sea?


anyone’s guess

i don’t see how a man that has assassinated his brother recently can be rehabilitated – most likely he’s playing for time, preparing etc. the russians are building a proper road to north korea

the area might actually be sandbagging , playing for time , keeping the yanks occupied. trump keeps threatening nuclear war. any treaty signed with the yanks is toilet paper when it doesn’t suit them. sun tzu – land is the essence of the state – building land is good. china seizes easy land , no one has the resources to chase them off the oceans, they invaded tibet without a whimper from the UN, easy pickings – not armed etc. the fifth column – the art of war – bribe the ministers of the gov to do your bidding – its cheaper than going to war, better to pay millions of dollars to ministers and bureaucrats than waste trillions fighting a war. china doesn’t go to war with armed peoples, they use bribery, corruption and infiltration to destroy enemy states. you want to understand china – read the art of war.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/06/2018 00:54:34
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1237756
Subject: re: origins the journey of humankind

wookiemeister said:


PermeateFree said:

wookiemeister said:

blame it on the boogie

While you’re at it Wook, will Kim and Trump solve the North Korean problem. Will China fight to defend its island integrity in the China Sea?


anyone’s guess

i don’t see how a man that has assassinated his brother recently can be rehabilitated – most likely he’s playing for time, preparing etc. the russians are building a proper road to north korea

the area might actually be sandbagging , playing for time , keeping the yanks occupied. trump keeps threatening nuclear war. any treaty signed with the yanks is toilet paper when it doesn’t suit them. sun tzu – land is the essence of the state – building land is good. china seizes easy land , no one has the resources to chase them off the oceans, they invaded tibet without a whimper from the UN, easy pickings – not armed etc. the fifth column – the art of war – bribe the ministers of the gov to do your bidding – its cheaper than going to war, better to pay millions of dollars to ministers and bureaucrats than waste trillions fighting a war. china doesn’t go to war with armed peoples, they use bribery, corruption and infiltration to destroy enemy states. you want to understand china – read the art of war.

An interesting scenario, but what if the Americans and allies continue to pass through their declared sovereignty zone?

Reply Quote

Date: 10/06/2018 04:21:40
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1237782
Subject: re: origins the journey of humankind

wookiemeister said:


Peak Warming Man said:

wookiemeister said:

the game plan probably isn’t to defend darwin, draw a pencil line across from brisbane and let the mosquitoes, snakes, ants and spiders do their work.

germany built heavy duty motorways to transport tanks from the factories straight out of germany to the battlefront – israel has done this too, they have heavy duty highways leading into the west bank to take soldiers, tanks and APCs to the enemy positions.

nowadays anything of any worth is already owned and operated by the enemy so moving the tanks around is really a game rather than any serious defence of the country; normally training conducted by land forces in australia is directed to training australian troops to fight in american led wars in the middle east, no fighting will ever happen here. in the event of war any enemy with a reasonably good icbm system will shut australia down in two weeks by hitting the few oil refineries australia (theres only 7 oil refineries in australia). conventional warheads will knock out the 7 refineries being knocked out will see the country descend into chaos fairly quickly as various multicultural groups gather and start to assert dominance in their own areas (the gov collapses and disappears fairly quickly). canberra is land locked and produces NOTHING of any consequence , parliament will become a empty, looted and burnt out shell by the end of say 2 months (the gov abandons the city – no oil, canberra collapses – that goes for most inland communities that rely on trucks to bring food and supplies from the coast.

major airports fall virtually silent save for military transport rushing gov personnel out of the country (somewhere nicer)

martial law is imposed but quickly collapses, law and order shrinks to say , 300m around police stations still with electricity and water

And people will pay unscrupulous redoubt owners obscene amounts of money for somewhere safe to camp.


if you are not near the sea or a major highway near the sea , you’ll have problems. the redoubt will most likely by abandoned with no trucks coming. the owner of the redoubt will most likely pack his belongings onto a large vehicle and ride atop with a shotgun/ rifle. thousands of broken down vehicles litter the roads that will split and become overgrown in the coming years. mining stops as the oil stops – the mines are abandoned. all human activity withdraws to the coast. no more sprawling housing estates (the estates are abandoned as they are too far out – they too become abandoned and populated by bandits. of a night the police are forced to make culls of the gangs that form using helicopter gunships to keep them pruned. the CBDs of major cities become crowded with walls being built for protection)

3 years after the refineries were attacked all mining activity has stopped, australian subs lay idle and rusting, the enemy just turned off the oil tap.

Wow. I close my eyes for a few minutes …

I was thinking along the lines of a real life fake coup. In a military exercise many years ago the participants were to have a go at taking over an Australian city. A few participants went beyond the guidelines and captured, in real life, the radio stations, which stopped Australians from knowing what had happened. It was a success, but the top brass was not pleased.

That wouldn’t work now. But attacking internet communications might work. Starting by cutting major cables, and most connections to Google. The populace will think it’s just another overload problem.

Next step would be introducing biological or chemical weapons into the water supply.

Third step would be attack by sea.

> germany built heavy duty motorways to transport tanks from the factories straight out of germany to the battlefront – israel has done this too, they have heavy duty highways leading into the west bank to take soldiers, tanks and APCs to the enemy positions.

The USA did this too. As pointed out in “Origins the journey of humankind” as soon a WWII was over, Eisenhower built the interstate system of freeways made from “8 inches of concrete” in immitation of the German autobahns specifically to transport military convoys in a hurry.

But I was wrong about attack by sea as being Step 3, wasn’t I. wookiemeister is right in that taking out the 7 oil refineries would come next, before attack by sea. That would cripple the army and airforce.

What about airports as a target?

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Date: 10/06/2018 09:23:58
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1237814
Subject: re: origins the journey of humankind

I see the military engineers have hi-jacked this civil engineering thread.

Oh well.

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Date: 10/06/2018 09:56:28
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1237834
Subject: re: origins the journey of humankind

Apologies. Please feel free to bring it back on track.

How many episodes of this series are there and what do they cover? Last night’s pair were about transportation and communication.

I like the way they get short discussions from individual experts on each phase of technological development. Who in turn choose to regale us with facts that are not generally known.

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Date: 10/06/2018 10:25:36
From: transition
ID: 1237847
Subject: re: origins the journey of humankind

>the game plan probably isn’t to defend darwin.

seems somewhat unnecessary, hundred year lease in the port and all.

there’s only so much you can do with guns, tanks etc. You can do so much more with money/investment, and trade.

I guess there’s some currency in the siege thing, being at war, if only in your head, suddenly all your special gifts might be required for the war effort, such great urgency, the immediacy of it.

I get a similar experience when a thunder storm rolls in, the thought of getting struck by lightning, or blown away by the wind.

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Date: 10/06/2018 10:27:02
From: roughbarked
ID: 1237848
Subject: re: origins the journey of humankind

transition said:


>the game plan probably isn’t to defend darwin.

seems somewhat unnecessary, hundred year lease in the port and all.

there’s only so much you can do with guns, tanks etc. You can do so much more with money/investment, and trade.

I guess there’s some currency in the siege thing, being at war, if only in your head, suddenly all your special gifts might be required for the war effort, such great urgency, the immediacy of it.

I get a similar experience when a thunder storm rolls in, the thought of getting struck by lightning, or blown away by the wind.

None of that has ever bothered me.

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Date: 10/06/2018 12:18:48
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1237881
Subject: re: origins the journey of humankind

1 “Spark of civilization”
The ability to harness the power of fire and control it gave humans the power to create, transform and destroy. Firepower has transformed us from living as early nomadic tribes to a species with the ability to undertake space voyages.

2 “Cheating death”
Throughout evolution, the human species has been battling diseases — conditions initially unknown but in the process of finding a cure was discovered to have been spread by microscopic biological organisms. Medical science has helped humans make a huge progress in fighting modern-day plagues.

3 “Power of money”
Expansion of societies led to the proliferation of trade routes. As commerce flourished, the barter system prevalent in inter-societal trades gave way to the currency system that led to the modern day global economy.

4 “The writing on the wall”
Interaction within a species is indispensable for their survival. Communication between humans began with sign languages, cave paintings and hieroglyphs. With time, this led to the development of complex languages with expressive forms that connected them with civilizations from other parts of the globe.

5 “Progress of war”
The human species has developed in many ways and warfare is no exception. From the early humans’ need of self-protection from hostile conditions in the wilderness, to wars fought between humans themselves, it has been the forefront for many inventions.
6 “Building the future”

The journey from being nomadic hunter-gatherers to building modern day skyscrapers has been a great human achievement. Our homes are not just a dwelling place; they represent our perpetual desire for a more complex world.

7 “Into the unknown”
The human desire for exploration has led us to the depths of sea and farness of our moon. Our curiosity of the unknown has been the driving force behind new inventions.

8 “The road ahead”
The human pursuit for travel led to the exchange of ideas which in turn resulted in innovations, facilitating new modes of transport. Animals used in early civilizations have been replaced by engines used in vehicles that transport us over great distances within short periods of time.

Wikipedia reference for this is … ugh … the JB HI-FI website.

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Date: 10/06/2018 12:22:47
From: transition
ID: 1237882
Subject: re: origins the journey of humankind

>Our homes are not just a dwelling place; they represent our perpetual desire for a more complex world.

not sure about that statement, sounds more like ideology.

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