>>In 2011 I made an uncomfortable discovery about my family history. I had a famous great-great-great uncle, I learned: Angus McMillan. He was an explorer of early Australia, but in recent years he has also been identified as the man responsible for a series of massacres of the Gunai (sometimes referred to as the Gunaikurnai) people of Gippsland in the south-eastern state of Victoria.

These attacks were cold-blooded and without mercy. Men with guns descended upon unsuspecting encampments, killing men, women and children; they were killed, as one settler wrote later, “whenever can be met with”. In the first 10 years of settlement in Gippsland, the Gunai population fell by more than 90%, to little more than 100 individuals.

McMillan had fled Scotland during the time of the Highland Clearances but, in a cruel irony, he went on to enact brutal clearances of his own upon his new country, the worst at Warrigal Creek in 1843, where 80 to 200 members of the Bratowooloong clan were killed in revenge for the murder of a single white settler.<<

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/may/21/aboriginal-sorry-day-massacre-gunai

I don’t think amends can be made. It is a bit too late for that.

party_pants said:

I don’t think amends can be made. It is a bit too late for that.

No its not, the people are still suffering, whilst the descendants of the perpetrators have done very well.

PermeateFree said:

>>In 2011 I made an uncomfortable discovery about my family history. I had a famous great-great-great uncle, I learned: Angus McMillan. He was an explorer of early Australia, but in recent years he has also been identified as the man responsible for a series of massacres of the Gunai (sometimes referred to as the Gunaikurnai) people of Gippsland in the south-eastern state of Victoria.

These attacks were cold-blooded and without mercy. Men with guns descended upon unsuspecting encampments, killing men, women and children; they were killed, as one settler wrote later, “whenever can be met with”. In the first 10 years of settlement in Gippsland, the Gunai population fell by more than 90%, to little more than 100 individuals.

McMillan had fled Scotland during the time of the Highland Clearances but, in a cruel irony, he went on to enact brutal clearances of his own upon his new country, the worst at Warrigal Creek in 1843, where 80 to 200 members of the Bratowooloong clan were killed in revenge for the murder of a single white settler.<<

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/may/21/aboriginal-sorry-day-massacre-gunai

I should add these people were we organised and were known as the Highland Brigade as they were mainly Scots. Angus McMillan their leader and was known as the “Butcher of Gippsland”. Scottish ancestry in Australia like so many others is nothing to be proud about.

When i was younger, i had a number of Jewish friends in Sydney, and became acquainted with their parents and older members of the Jewish community. That included some Holocaust survivors, of course.

I was talking with one of those survivors, and i asked if we could talk about what happened to him. He was fine with that. Eventually, i asked him how he felt about Germans today.

He said something along the lines of how the people who could be punished had been mostly been punished, but he didn’t hate Germans – populations have been misled and exploited before, and will be again.

I asked him whether he thought young Germans had any responsibility. He looked puzzled, and said ‘why should they? They weren’t even born then. They’re different people.’ He said they should know what happened, and be responsible for making sure nothing like it happened again. And so should we all.

Some Australian tribes have official representatives. Perhaps there’s one for the Gunai that you can ask.

Checking wikipedia.

The Gunai, often now referred to as the Gunaikurnai, is an Indigenous Australian nation of south-east Australia whose territory occupies most of present-day Gippsland and much of the southern slopes of the Victorian Alps. The Gunaikurnai nation is composed of five major clans. Many of the Gunaikurnai people resisted early European squatting and subsequent settlement during the nineteenth century, resulting in a number of deadly confrontations between Europeans and the Gunai/Kurnai. There are about 3,000 Gunai/Kurnai people alive today, predominantly living in Gippsland.

Notable Gunaikurnai people

John Gorrie PSM (1950-), public servant
Albert Mullet (1933-2014), community leader and craftsman
Lidia Thorpe, Victorian MP

Perhaps if you send a letter to Lidia Thorpe. She’s a member of the Greens and was voted in Nov 2017.

There’s a negligible chance that any pureblood Gunai still live.

Lidia Thorpe. This woman.

Website https://greens.org.au/vic/mps/lidia-thorpe

captain_spalding said:

When i was younger, i had a number of Jewish friends in Sydney, and became acquainted with their parents and older members of the Jewish community. That included some Holocaust survivors, of course.

I was talking with one of those survivors, and i asked if we could talk about what happened to him. He was fine with that. Eventually, i asked him how he felt about Germans today.

He said something along the lines of how the people who could be punished had been mostly been punished, but he didn’t hate Germans – populations have been misled and exploited before, and will be again.

I asked him whether he thought young Germans had any responsibility. He looked puzzled, and said ‘why should they? They weren’t even born then. They’re different people.’ He said they should know what happened, and be responsible for making sure nothing like it happened again. And so should we all.

The trouble with your assessment is that the perpetrators and their descendants have never been brought to justice and the abuse of Aborigines continues to this day. They have been killed, humiliated, imprisoned, treated like slaves, their land stolen, etc., that is a fu#king lot to just pretend it never happened and that the descendants of the perpetrators still treat them like shit.

PermeateFree said:

captain_spalding said:

When i was younger, i had a number of Jewish friends in Sydney, and became acquainted with their parents and older members of the Jewish community. That included some Holocaust survivors, of course.

I was talking with one of those survivors, and i asked if we could talk about what happened to him. He was fine with that. Eventually, i asked him how he felt about Germans today.

He said something along the lines of how the people who could be punished had been mostly been punished, but he didn’t hate Germans – populations have been misled and exploited before, and will be again.

I asked him whether he thought young Germans had any responsibility. He looked puzzled, and said ‘why should they? They weren’t even born then. They’re different people.’ He said they should know what happened, and be responsible for making sure nothing like it happened again. And so should we all.

The trouble with your assessment is that the perpetrators and their descendants have never been brought to justice and the abuse of Aborigines continues to this day. They have been killed, humiliated, imprisoned, treated like slaves, their land stolen, etc., that is a fu#king lot to just pretend it never happened and that the descendants of the perpetrators still treat them like shit.

Has anyone sat own with Aboriginal people and had an honest frank discussion about is that how they what their lives to be (dv, substance abuse, unemployed, poor health compared to most others) and if not what can we all do to improve them.

Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

captain_spalding said:

When i was younger, i had a number of Jewish friends in Sydney, and became acquainted with their parents and older members of the Jewish community. That included some Holocaust survivors, of course.

I was talking with one of those survivors, and i asked if we could talk about what happened to him. He was fine with that. Eventually, i asked him how he felt about Germans today.

He said something along the lines of how the people who could be punished had been mostly been punished, but he didn’t hate Germans – populations have been misled and exploited before, and will be again.

I asked him whether he thought young Germans had any responsibility. He looked puzzled, and said ‘why should they? They weren’t even born then. They’re different people.’ He said they should know what happened, and be responsible for making sure nothing like it happened again. And so should we all.

The trouble with your assessment is that the perpetrators and their descendants have never been brought to justice and the abuse of Aborigines continues to this day. They have been killed, humiliated, imprisoned, treated like slaves, their land stolen, etc., that is a fu#king lot to just pretend it never happened and that the descendants of the perpetrators still treat them like shit.

Has anyone sat own with Aboriginal people and had an honest frank discussion about is that how they what their lives to be (dv, substance abuse, unemployed, poor health compared to most others) and if not what can we all do to improve them.

You cannot just take what is going on today without taking into account their history that has led to what they are now. There is a great deal of history that should not be swept under the carpet just so most of the population can feel better and ignore it all. The greatest thing that could possibly happen is to grant them the freedom of self determination, so they can plan and control their own lives and future.

Heard Warren Mundine on the radio today saying that sexual abuse of children in aboriginal communities is rife and they should be removed for their own protection.
He said it was one of the reasons they were turning to drugs and crime.

Peak Warming Man said:

Heard Warren Mundine on the radio today saying that sexual abuse of children in aboriginal communities is rife and they should be removed for their own protection.
He said it was one of the reasons they were turning to drugs and crime.

Going by what I see through the courts in WA they has quite a lot of truth to it and you often see really young Aboriginal girls with babies/children kind of stifles their ability to better themselves through education when they are a mother. They seem to be taken advantage of by the men even without outright sexual abuse

Peak Warming Man said:

Heard Warren Mundine on the radio today saying that sexual abuse of children in aboriginal communities is rife and they should be removed for their own protection.
He said it was one of the reasons they were turning to drugs and crime.

Our own history is exceptionally ripe in regards to sexual abuse of children, drugs and crime. If they could control the outcome of their own communities including policing and punishment, they could then take pride in themselves and their community. People need hope for the future, not continual government control and regulation.

PermeateFree said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Heard Warren Mundine on the radio today saying that sexual abuse of children in aboriginal communities is rife and they should be removed for their own protection.
He said it was one of the reasons they were turning to drugs and crime.

Our own history is exceptionally ripe in regards to sexual abuse of children, drugs and crime. If they could control the outcome of their own communities including policing and punishment, they could then take pride in themselves and their community. People need hope for the future, not continual government control and regulation.

Getting them jobs helps as well, not reliant on welfare and less time to be bored and get into trouble.
I wonder if tribal punishment would sort out some of the misdeeds that go on, not advocating violence but DV and sexual abuse aren’t acceptable no matter who you are and something needs to stop it.

PermeateFree said:

captain_spalding said:

When i was younger, i had a number of Jewish friends in Sydney, and became acquainted with their parents and older members of the Jewish community. That included some Holocaust survivors, of course.

I was talking with one of those survivors, and i asked if we could talk about what happened to him. He was fine with that. Eventually, i asked him how he felt about Germans today.

He said something along the lines of how the people who could be punished had been mostly been punished, but he didn’t hate Germans – populations have been misled and exploited before, and will be again.

I asked him whether he thought young Germans had any responsibility. He looked puzzled, and said ‘why should they? They weren’t even born then. They’re different people.’ He said they should know what happened, and be responsible for making sure nothing like it happened again. And so should we all.

The trouble with your assessment is that the perpetrators and their descendants have never been brought to justice and the abuse of Aborigines continues to this day. They have been killed, humiliated, imprisoned, treated like slaves, their land stolen, etc., that is a fu#king lot to just pretend it never happened and that the descendants of the perpetrators still treat them like shit.

The descendants should be bought to justice? That’s a new one.

Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Heard Warren Mundine on the radio today saying that sexual abuse of children in aboriginal communities is rife and they should be removed for their own protection.
He said it was one of the reasons they were turning to drugs and crime.

Our own history is exceptionally ripe in regards to sexual abuse of children, drugs and crime. If they could control the outcome of their own communities including policing and punishment, they could then take pride in themselves and their community. People need hope for the future, not continual government control and regulation.

Getting them jobs helps as well, not reliant on welfare and less time to be bored and get into trouble.
I wonder if tribal punishment would sort out some of the misdeeds that go on, not advocating violence but DV and sexual abuse aren’t acceptable no matter who you are and something needs to stop it.

Just what you you bloody well think goes on in these communities? There are people there that want what is right, they dson’t want the bullies in their community doing what they like, but they can nothing about it. They need the power to have their own police force and an y punishment determined by the elders of the community. You make it sound like communities are a brothel on steroids, they are not, but the power to control the situation will not work when determined by outsiders. These people managed themselves for tens of thousands of years, now in our arrogance think we think we are the only ones who can solve the problems we have created.

sibeen said:

PermeateFree said:

captain_spalding said:

When i was younger, i had a number of Jewish friends in Sydney, and became acquainted with their parents and older members of the Jewish community. That included some Holocaust survivors, of course.

I was talking with one of those survivors, and i asked if we could talk about what happened to him. He was fine with that. Eventually, i asked him how he felt about Germans today.

He said something along the lines of how the people who could be punished had been mostly been punished, but he didn’t hate Germans – populations have been misled and exploited before, and will be again.

I asked him whether he thought young Germans had any responsibility. He looked puzzled, and said ‘why should they? They weren’t even born then. They’re different people.’ He said they should know what happened, and be responsible for making sure nothing like it happened again. And so should we all.

The trouble with your assessment is that the perpetrators and their descendants have never been brought to justice and the abuse of Aborigines continues to this day. They have been killed, humiliated, imprisoned, treated like slaves, their land stolen, etc., that is a fu#king lot to just pretend it never happened and that the descendants of the perpetrators still treat them like shit.

The descendants should be bought to justice? That’s a new one.

Must be difficult for you to think out of your square sibeen, but at least try.

PermeateFree said:

Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

Our own history is exceptionally ripe in regards to sexual abuse of children, drugs and crime. If they could control the outcome of their own communities including policing and punishment, they could then take pride in themselves and their community. People need hope for the future, not continual government control and regulation.

Getting them jobs helps as well, not reliant on welfare and less time to be bored and get into trouble.
I wonder if tribal punishment would sort out some of the misdeeds that go on, not advocating violence but DV and sexual abuse aren’t acceptable no matter who you are and something needs to stop it.

Better tidy it up a little.

Just what do you bloody well think goes on in these communities? There are people there that want what is right, they don’t want the bullies in their community doing what they like, but they can do nothing about it. They need the power to have their own police force and any punishment determined by the elders of the community. You make it sound like communities are a brothel on steroids, they are not, but the power to control the situation will not work when determined by outsiders. These people have managed themselves for tens of thousands of years, now in our arrogance we think we are the only ones who can solve the problems we have created.

Amends can be made by changing the name of the electorate of MacMillan. And by telling the stories.

Descendants need not make amends. Most of them aren’t aware.

It is three years more or less since I handed in my exegesis so I am unsure of my references. But I did read somewhere that the cleared highlanders formed the camp that felt empathy for aborigines re dispossession and even mingled… horror! and the camp of highlanders who felt justified in taking land by force because that had happened to them.

The powers that be decided there were too many wild highlander types and pursued the immigration of more lowlanders that were of a hard working and more docile type.

sarahs mum said:

Amends can be made by changing the name of the electorate of MacMillan. And by telling the stories.

Descendants need not make amends. Most of them aren’t aware.

It is three years more or less since I handed in my exegesis so I am unsure of my references. But I did read somewhere that the cleared highlanders formed the camp that felt empathy for aborigines re dispossession and even mingled… horror! and the camp of highlanders who felt justified in taking land by force because that had happened to them.

The powers that be decided there were too many wild highlander types and pursued the immigration of more lowlanders that were of a hard working and more docile type.

I think the Aborigines were also pushed out from where ever they were, by whoever wanted their land. Nigger hunts were common.

Self determination is ideal but unfortunately some communities are so dysfunctional outside intervention is necessary. What must be done is to use the example of sucessful communities as a guide as to how to go about intervening in less sucessful ones.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Self determination is ideal but unfortunately some communities are so dysfunctional outside intervention is necessary. What must be done is to use the example of sucessful communities as a guide as to how to go about intervening in less sucessful ones.

You sum up what is wrong with our thinking.

I did see one of MacMillan’s direct rellies interviewed a few years back. She discussed the good and bad of MacMillan. I thought she needed her scales adjusted.

Somewhere in my exegesis I wrote about MacMillan’s art commissions. The genre of Aussie bush art goes back to there.

PermeateFree said:

sarahs mum said:

Amends can be made by changing the name of the electorate of MacMillan. And by telling the stories.

Descendants need not make amends. Most of them aren’t aware.

It is three years more or less since I handed in my exegesis so I am unsure of my references. But I did read somewhere that the cleared highlanders formed the camp that felt empathy for aborigines re dispossession and even mingled… horror! and the camp of highlanders who felt justified in taking land by force because that had happened to them.

The powers that be decided there were too many wild highlander types and pursued the immigration of more lowlanders that were of a hard working and more docile type.

I think the Aborigines were also pushed out from where ever they were, by whoever wanted their land. Nigger hunts were common.

Sure were.

I am in Tasmania. It has been very darkly written upon.

PermeateFree said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Self determination is ideal but unfortunately some communities are so dysfunctional outside intervention is necessary. What must be done is to use the example of sucessful communities as a guide as to how to go about intervening in less sucessful ones.

You sum up what is wrong with our thinking.

IMO it is morally indefensible to subject women and children to lawlessness and neglect in the name of some foolish ideal that what’s best for Aboriginals is to be free of outside intervention. The communities that work are those that have taken guidance from both black and white Australia.

sarahs mum said:

PermeateFree said:

sarahs mum said:

Amends can be made by changing the name of the electorate of MacMillan. And by telling the stories.

Descendants need not make amends. Most of them aren’t aware.

It is three years more or less since I handed in my exegesis so I am unsure of my references. But I did read somewhere that the cleared highlanders formed the camp that felt empathy for aborigines re dispossession and even mingled… horror! and the camp of highlanders who felt justified in taking land by force because that had happened to them.

The powers that be decided there were too many wild highlander types and pursued the immigration of more lowlanders that were of a hard working and more docile type.

I think the Aborigines were also pushed out from where ever they were, by whoever wanted their land. Nigger hunts were common.

Sure were.

I am in Tasmania. It has been very darkly written upon.

The real problem is, we do not know about Aboriginal history, you have to look very hard to find it because it is so disturbing to examine. We prefer to take newspaper headlines of the worst kind and apply them to all situations involving Aborigines. Yes there are bad people within communities, these tend to be family groups that are not the majority, but are physically powerful within the community. These people are not liked, even by other Aborigines, but nothing can be done about it under white mans law, which has never worked, and generally makes the situation worse by protecting the trouble makers.

Witty Rejoinder said:

PermeateFree said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Self determination is ideal but unfortunately some communities are so dysfunctional outside intervention is necessary. What must be done is to use the example of sucessful communities as a guide as to how to go about intervening in less sucessful ones.

You sum up what is wrong with our thinking.

IMO it is morally indefensible to subject women and children to lawlessness and neglect in the name of some foolish ideal that what’s best for Aboriginals is to be free of outside intervention. The communities that work are those that have taken guidance from both black and white Australia.

Yes that is your opinion and it is wrong!

PermeateFree said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

PermeateFree said:

You sum up what is wrong with our thinking.

IMO it is morally indefensible to subject women and children to lawlessness and neglect in the name of some foolish ideal that what’s best for Aboriginals is to be free of outside intervention. The communities that work are those that have taken guidance from both black and white Australia.

Yes that is your opinion and it is wrong!

Yes dear.

Witty Rejoinder said:

PermeateFree said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

IMO it is morally indefensible to subject women and children to lawlessness and neglect in the name of some foolish ideal that what’s best for Aboriginals is to be free of outside intervention. The communities that work are those that have taken guidance from both black and white Australia.

Yes that is your opinion and it is wrong!

Yes dear.

You are a fool Witty, the only problem is you don’t know it.

PermeateFree said:

PermeateFree said:

Cymek said:

Getting them jobs helps as well, not reliant on welfare and less time to be bored and get into trouble.
I wonder if tribal punishment would sort out some of the misdeeds that go on, not advocating violence but DV and sexual abuse aren’t acceptable no matter who you are and something needs to stop it.

Better tidy it up a little.

Just what do you bloody well think goes on in these communities? There are people there that want what is right, they don’t want the bullies in their community doing what they like, but they can do nothing about it. They need the power to have their own police force and any punishment determined by the elders of the community. You make it sound like communities are a brothel on steroids, they are not, but the power to control the situation will not work when determined by outsiders. These people have managed themselves for tens of thousands of years, now in our arrogance we think we are the only ones who can solve the problems we have created.

They are rife with domestic violence I know that from the people through the court everyday for the last 18 years.

PermeateFree said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

PermeateFree said:

You sum up what is wrong with our thinking.

IMO it is morally indefensible to subject women and children to lawlessness and neglect in the name of some foolish ideal that what’s best for Aboriginals is to be free of outside intervention. The communities that work are those that have taken guidance from both black and white Australia.

Yes that is your opinion and it is wrong!

Self responsibility is one thing that could be done, are white ….. to blame because an Aboriginal person breaks the law, I’d get the same punishment they do

PermeateFree said:

You are a fool Witty, the only problem is you don’t know it.

Sorry i forgot you are a self-appointed expert in everything.

Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

IMO it is morally indefensible to subject women and children to lawlessness and neglect in the name of some foolish ideal that what’s best for Aboriginals is to be free of outside intervention. The communities that work are those that have taken guidance from both black and white Australia.

Yes that is your opinion and it is wrong!

Certain behaviours aren’t negated, minimised or acceptable no matter who you are or your past, might isn’t right.

Self responsibility is one thing that could be done, are white ….. to blame because an Aboriginal person breaks the law, I’d get the same punishment they do

Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

PermeateFree said:

Better tidy it up a little.

Just what do you bloody well think goes on in these communities? There are people there that want what is right, they don’t want the bullies in their community doing what they like, but they can do nothing about it. They need the power to have their own police force and any punishment determined by the elders of the community. You make it sound like communities are a brothel on steroids, they are not, but the power to control the situation will not work when determined by outsiders. These people have managed themselves for tens of thousands of years, now in our arrogance we think we are the only ones who can solve the problems we have created.

They are rife with domestic violence I know that from the people through the court everyday for the last 18 years.

Yes, feuding families, and nothing came done unless they have their own law enforcement. The whitemans way has clearly not worked and will never work, so instead of continually beating your head against the wall, you should try a different and better way.

Witty Rejoinder said:

PermeateFree said:

You are a fool Witty, the only problem is you don’t know it.

Sorry i forgot you are a self-appointed expert in everything.

+1

Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

IMO it is morally indefensible to subject women and children to lawlessness and neglect in the name of some foolish ideal that what’s best for Aboriginals is to be free of outside intervention. The communities that work are those that have taken guidance from both black and white Australia.

Yes that is your opinion and it is wrong!

Self responsibility is one thing that could be done, are white ….. to blame because an Aboriginal person breaks the law, I’d get the same punishment they do

You need to go back a long, long way in their history. Have you already forgotten the OP?

Witty Rejoinder said:

PermeateFree said:

You are a fool Witty, the only problem is you don’t know it.

Sorry i forgot you are a self-appointed expert in everything.

You don’t need to be an expert to determine you are a fool Witty, it is only too obvious.

PermeateFree said:

Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

Yes that is your opinion and it is wrong!

Self responsibility is one thing that could be done, are white ….. to blame because an Aboriginal person breaks the law, I’d get the same punishment they do

You need to go back a long, long way in their history. Have you already forgotten the OP?

One can’t be responsible for the sins of ancestors only descendants, you can make amends that is true.
I suppose unless you can adapt to the dominant culture nothing much will change, history proves this most of the time.
Aboriginal people shouldn’t have to assimilate but create a new culture combining their own and mainstream society

ChrispenEvan said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

PermeateFree said:

You are a fool Witty, the only problem is you don’t know it.

Sorry i forgot you are a self-appointed expert in everything.

+1

Lets get some facts right here, I only post to a handful of environmental subjects of which I do think I have some expertise. I apologise if some of the points I raise you find disturbing.

PermeateFree said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

PermeateFree said:

You are a fool Witty, the only problem is you don’t know it.

Sorry i forgot you are a self-appointed expert in everything.

You don’t need to be an expert to determine you are a fool Witty, it is only too obvious.

Yet you’ve been proven ignorant time and time again on this forum more than most. Won’t some one think of the Papuan New Guinea echidnas in there fight against el nino and meteorite impact?

Witty Rejoinder said:

PermeateFree said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Sorry i forgot you are a self-appointed expert in everything.

You don’t need to be an expert to determine you are a fool Witty, it is only too obvious.

Yet you’ve been proven ignorant time and time again on this forum more than most. Won’t some one think of the Papuan New Guinea echidnas in there fight against el nino and meteorite impact?

ha.

Seems to be human nature to exploit the weaker so probably nothing much will change

Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

Cymek said:

Self responsibility is one thing that could be done, are white ….. to blame because an Aboriginal person breaks the law, I’d get the same punishment they do

You need to go back a long, long way in their history. Have you already forgotten the OP?

One can’t be responsible for the sins of ancestors only descendants, you can make amends that is true.
I suppose unless you can adapt to the dominant culture nothing much will change, history proves this most of the time.
Aboriginal people shouldn’t have to assimilate but create a new culture combining their own and mainstream society

You have absolutely no idea what I have been taking about. You belong to a culture that has stolen everything from these people and you wonder why some are now so dysfunctional.

poikilotherm said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

PermeateFree said:

You don’t need to be an expert to determine you are a fool Witty, it is only too obvious.

Yet you’ve been proven ignorant time and time again on this forum more than most. Won’t some one think of the Papuan New Guinea echidnas in there fight against el nino and meteorite impact?

ha.

+1

Witty Rejoinder said:

PermeateFree said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Sorry i forgot you are a self-appointed expert in everything.

You don’t need to be an expert to determine you are a fool Witty, it is only too obvious.

Yet you’ve been proven ignorant time and time again on this forum more than most. Won’t some one think of the Papuan New Guinea echidnas in there fight against el nino and meteorite impact?

You have mentioned that before and I proved you wrong, it just goes to prove that you are a fool to keep bringing it up.

Witty Rejoinder said:

PermeateFree said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Sorry i forgot you are a self-appointed expert in everything.

You don’t need to be an expert to determine you are a fool Witty, it is only too obvious.

Yet you’ve been proven ignorant time and time again on this forum more than most. Won’t some one think of the Papuan New Guinea echidnas in there fight against el nino and meteorite impact?

ROFL

Witty Rejoinder said:

PermeateFree said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Sorry i forgot you are a self-appointed expert in everything.

You don’t need to be an expert to determine you are a fool Witty, it is only too obvious.

Yet you’ve been proven ignorant time and time again on this forum more than most. Won’t some one think of the Papuan New Guinea echidnas in there fight against el nino and meteorite impact?

THEIR

sibeen being even handed :)

PermeateFree said:

Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

You need to go back a long, long way in their history. Have you already forgotten the OP?

One can’t be responsible for the sins of ancestors only descendants, you can make amends that is true.
I suppose unless you can adapt to the dominant culture nothing much will change, history proves this most of the time.
Aboriginal people shouldn’t have to assimilate but create a new culture combining their own and mainstream society

You have absolutely no idea what I have been taking about. You belong to a culture that has stolen everything from these people and you wonder why some are now so dysfunctional.

Do their parents have any responsibility, you seem to find any excuse to justify violence and sexual abuse as being white mans fault and the Aboriginals just victims. That behaviour isn’t acceptable and no excuses.

poikilotherm said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

PermeateFree said:

You don’t need to be an expert to determine you are a fool Witty, it is only too obvious.

Yet you’ve been proven ignorant time and time again on this forum more than most. Won’t some one think of the Papuan New Guinea echidnas in there fight against el nino and meteorite impact?

ha.

You are like someone who sits on a high balcony and spits on people passing by that you don’t like. You are a coward Poik and I have little time for you.

sibeen said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

PermeateFree said:

You don’t need to be an expert to determine you are a fool Witty, it is only too obvious.

Yet you’ve been proven ignorant time and time again on this forum more than most. Won’t some one think of the Papuan New Guinea echidnas in there fight against el nino and meteorite impact?

THEIR

sibeen being even handed :)

crawler.

Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

Cymek said:

One can’t be responsible for the sins of ancestors only descendants, you can make amends that is true.
I suppose unless you can adapt to the dominant culture nothing much will change, history proves this most of the time.
Aboriginal people shouldn’t have to assimilate but create a new culture combining their own and mainstream society

You have absolutely no idea what I have been taking about. You belong to a culture that has stolen everything from these people and you wonder why some are now so dysfunctional.

Do their parents have any responsibility, you seem to find any excuse to justify violence and sexual abuse as being white mans fault and the Aboriginals just victims. That behaviour isn’t acceptable and no excuses.

Aboriginal people are racist as well you know, blame it all on others and add the white in front on an insult.

sibeen said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

PermeateFree said:

You don’t need to be an expert to determine you are a fool Witty, it is only too obvious.

Yet you’ve been proven ignorant time and time again on this forum more than most. Won’t some one think of the Papuan New Guinea echidnas in there fight against el nino and meteorite impact?

THEIR

sibeen being even handed :)

Lets get this right too. Boris, sibeen and some others have made it quite clear that you don’t want me on the forum and try to annoy me so I will lose my temper and then you can say to the other members, see he should not be here. You are the people who do the deeds of DO, just because he buys you a beer. How pathetic is that?

PermeateFree said:

sibeen said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Yet you’ve been proven ignorant time and time again on this forum more than most. Won’t some one think of the Papuan New Guinea echidnas in there fight against el nino and meteorite impact?

THEIR

sibeen being even handed :)

Lets get this right too. Boris, sibeen and some others have made it quite clear that you don’t want me on the forum and try to annoy me so I will lose my temper and then you can say to the other members, see he should not be here. You are the people who do the deeds of DO, just because he buys you a beer. How pathetic is that?

I admit it. I am a humble lackey of DO. All the more impressive since I’ve never met him and had very little to do with him on the forum back in the day. He moves in mysterious ways.

Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

Cymek said:

One can’t be responsible for the sins of ancestors only descendants, you can make amends that is true.
I suppose unless you can adapt to the dominant culture nothing much will change, history proves this most of the time.
Aboriginal people shouldn’t have to assimilate but create a new culture combining their own and mainstream society

You have absolutely no idea what I have been taking about. You belong to a culture that has stolen everything from these people and you wonder why some are now so dysfunctional.

Do their parents have any responsibility, you seem to find any excuse to justify violence and sexual abuse as being white mans fault and the Aboriginals just victims. That behaviour isn’t acceptable and no excuses.

Where have you been for Gods sake? Haven’t you heard about all the child sexual abuse that we have done? Are you saying the Aborigines are the only ones to have this problem? Yes there are dysfunctional people in some communities, nobody is saying that is ok, but the other Aboriginals can do nothing about unless they are given the power to do so.

PermeateFree said:

sibeen said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Yet you’ve been proven ignorant time and time again on this forum more than most. Won’t some one think of the Papuan New Guinea echidnas in there fight against el nino and meteorite impact?

THEIR

sibeen being even handed :)

Lets get this right too. Boris, sibeen and some others have made it quite clear that you don’t want me on the forum and try to annoy me so I will lose my temper and then you can say to the other members, see he should not be here. You are the people who do the deeds of DO, just because he buys you a beer. How pathetic is that?

That’s not true, you get really angry we don’t agree with you, you seem to think everything is black and white and no shades of grey. This thread for example, I don’t think people should always be excused for criminal behaviour and violence because of the past, you get chances that for sure but as some point greater society needs to be protected. I’m not racist towards Aboriginal people, its a pretty awful life for many of them but certain behaviours needs to be stopped regardless and its not always someone else’s fault

Cymek said:

Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

You have absolutely no idea what I have been taking about. You belong to a culture that has stolen everything from these people and you wonder why some are now so dysfunctional.

Do their parents have any responsibility, you seem to find any excuse to justify violence and sexual abuse as being white mans fault and the Aboriginals just victims. That behaviour isn’t acceptable and no excuses.

Aboriginal people are racist as well you know, blame it all on others and add the white in front on an insult.

Now we see where you are coming from! No wonder you are not interested in the facts.

PermeateFree said:

sibeen said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Yet you’ve been proven ignorant time and time again on this forum more than most. Won’t some one think of the Papuan New Guinea echidnas in there fight against el nino and meteorite impact?

THEIR

sibeen being even handed :)

Lets get this right too. Boris, sibeen and some others have made it quite clear that you don’t want me on the forum and try to annoy me so I will lose my temper and then you can say to the other members, see he should not be here. You are the people who do the deeds of DO, just because he buys you a beer. How pathetic is that?

LOL. Annoy you by telling you that you are wrong? oh diddums. you and roughie should start a Victims of HF club.

PermeateFree said:

Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

You have absolutely no idea what I have been taking about. You belong to a culture that has stolen everything from these people and you wonder why some are now so dysfunctional.

Do their parents have any responsibility, you seem to find any excuse to justify violence and sexual abuse as being white mans fault and the Aboriginals just victims. That behaviour isn’t acceptable and no excuses.

Where have you been for Gods sake? Haven’t you heard about all the child sexual abuse that we have done? Are you saying the Aborigines are the only ones to have this problem? Yes there are dysfunctional people in some communities, nobody is saying that is ok, but the other Aboriginals can do nothing about unless they are given the power to do so.

Of course I have and the cover-ups as one of our greatest shames. No excuse for institutionalised abuse either and people should be jailed

Witty Rejoinder said:

PermeateFree said:

sibeen said:

THEIR

sibeen being even handed :)

Lets get this right too. Boris, sibeen and some others have made it quite clear that you don’t want me on the forum and try to annoy me so I will lose my temper and then you can say to the other members, see he should not be here. You are the people who do the deeds of DO, just because he buys you a beer. How pathetic is that?

I admit it. I am a humble lackey of DO. All the more impressive since I’ve never met him and had very little to do with him on the forum back in the day. He moves in mysterious ways.

No you are down the line and are influenced by his sycophants. Like I have said for a long time, you are a camp follower.

PermeateFree said:

Cymek said:

Cymek said:

Do their parents have any responsibility, you seem to find any excuse to justify violence and sexual abuse as being white mans fault and the Aboriginals just victims. That behaviour isn’t acceptable and no excuses.

Aboriginal people are racist as well you know, blame it all on others and add the white in front on an insult.

Now we see where you are coming from! No wonder you are not interested in the facts.

So only majority races are racist, when I get called a white c for not giving someone money is that racist or not.
When they get caught stealing and bash someone screaming out racial insults that OK

PermeateFree said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

PermeateFree said:

Lets get this right too. Boris, sibeen and some others have made it quite clear that you don’t want me on the forum and try to annoy me so I will lose my temper and then you can say to the other members, see he should not be here. You are the people who do the deeds of DO, just because he buys you a beer. How pathetic is that?

I admit it. I am a humble lackey of DO. All the more impressive since I’ve never met him and had very little to do with him on the forum back in the day. He moves in mysterious ways.

No you are down the line and are influenced by his sycophants. Like I have said for a long time, you are a camp follower.

DO as in Dark Orange ?
I met him once if that’s who you are referring to is he even on here under that name

Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

sibeen said:

THEIR

sibeen being even handed :)

Lets get this right too. Boris, sibeen and some others have made it quite clear that you don’t want me on the forum and try to annoy me so I will lose my temper and then you can say to the other members, see he should not be here. You are the people who do the deeds of DO, just because he buys you a beer. How pathetic is that?

That’s not true, you get really angry we don’t agree with you, you seem to think everything is black and white and no shades of grey. This thread for example, I don’t think people should always be excused for criminal behaviour and violence because of the past, you get chances that for sure but as some point greater society needs to be protected. I’m not racist towards Aboriginal people, its a pretty awful life for many of them but certain behaviours needs to be stopped regardless and its not always someone else’s fault

Well I be buggered, here was me thinking I was providing information and am usually in the grey because things are never as simple as they might seem, and here you are obviously with problems against Aboriginal people telling me that I am only black and white. Now that is a big, big laugh.

ChrispenEvan said:

PermeateFree said:

sibeen said:

THEIR

sibeen being even handed :)

Lets get this right too. Boris, sibeen and some others have made it quite clear that you don’t want me on the forum and try to annoy me so I will lose my temper and then you can say to the other members, see he should not be here. You are the people who do the deeds of DO, just because he buys you a beer. How pathetic is that?

LOL. Annoy you by telling you that you are wrong? oh diddums. you and roughie should start a Victims of HF club.

You see what I mean people? How many people has Boris driven from the forum now? Guess it would be quite a record.

PermeateFree said:

Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

Lets get this right too. Boris, sibeen and some others have made it quite clear that you don’t want me on the forum and try to annoy me so I will lose my temper and then you can say to the other members, see he should not be here. You are the people who do the deeds of DO, just because he buys you a beer. How pathetic is that?

That’s not true, you get really angry we don’t agree with you, you seem to think everything is black and white and no shades of grey. This thread for example, I don’t think people should always be excused for criminal behaviour and violence because of the past, you get chances that for sure but as some point greater society needs to be protected. I’m not racist towards Aboriginal people, its a pretty awful life for many of them but certain behaviours needs to be stopped regardless and its not always someone else’s fault

Well I be buggered, here was me thinking I was providing information and am usually in the grey because things are never as simple as they might seem, and here you are obviously with problems against Aboriginal people telling me that I am only black and white. Now that is a big, big laugh.

I have a problem when someone being Aboriginal is an excuse for anything they do wrong.
You think that’s OK, Aboriginal man bashes his wife, that OK white man made him do it, don’t lock him up let him do it again.
Should Aboriginal people be allowed to hurt others because of the past

Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

Cymek said:

Aboriginal people are racist as well you know, blame it all on others and add the white in front on an insult.

Now we see where you are coming from! No wonder you are not interested in the facts.

So only majority races are racist, when I get called a white c for not giving someone money is that racist or not.
When they get caught stealing and bash someone screaming out racial insults that OK

You just haven’t taken anything in have you? Just try putting yourself in the shoes of an Aborigine and knowing how your people have treated. I think they have been remarkably tolerant and forgiving, but are condemned in your mind by those that don’t think we are their salvation and resort to violence and verbal abuse. Your problem Cymek it you have only seen the bad and judge them all by that standard. Using the same comparison, do you think all whites are bastards too?

PermeateFree said:

sibeen said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Yet you’ve been proven ignorant time and time again on this forum more than most. Won’t some one think of the Papuan New Guinea echidnas in there fight against el nino and meteorite impact?

THEIR

sibeen being even handed :)

Lets get this right too. Boris, sibeen and some others have made it quite clear that you don’t want me on the forum and try to annoy me so I will lose my temper and then you can say to the other members, see he should not be here. You are the people who do the deeds of DO, just because he buys you a beer. How pathetic is that?

He bought me a very, very nice beer. A Westvleteren 12, considered by many to be the best beer ever made, and quite difficult to get in Australia.

Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

Cymek said:

That’s not true, you get really angry we don’t agree with you, you seem to think everything is black and white and no shades of grey. This thread for example, I don’t think people should always be excused for criminal behaviour and violence because of the past, you get chances that for sure but as some point greater society needs to be protected. I’m not racist towards Aboriginal people, its a pretty awful life for many of them but certain behaviours needs to be stopped regardless and its not always someone else’s fault

Well I be buggered, here was me thinking I was providing information and am usually in the grey because things are never as simple as they might seem, and here you are obviously with problems against Aboriginal people telling me that I am only black and white. Now that is a big, big laugh.

I have a problem when someone being Aboriginal is an excuse for anything they do wrong.
You think that’s OK, Aboriginal man bashes his wife, that OK white man made him do it, don’t lock him up let him do it again.
Should Aboriginal people be allowed to hurt others because of the past

That is NOT an excuse, but a reason why certain things have taken place and why there is so much dysfunction in their communities. When it is suggested how the problem could be improved, you automatically think they are incapable of doing so. Cymek, it is you who is the resist.

sibeen said:

PermeateFree said:

sibeen said:

THEIR

sibeen being even handed :)

Lets get this right too. Boris, sibeen and some others have made it quite clear that you don’t want me on the forum and try to annoy me so I will lose my temper and then you can say to the other members, see he should not be here. You are the people who do the deeds of DO, just because he buys you a beer. How pathetic is that?

He bought me a very, very nice beer. A Westvleteren 12, considered by many to be the best beer ever made, and quite difficult to get in Australia.

Last time I saw him he forgot his bloody wallet and I ended up paying for both lunch and drinks.

sibeen said:

PermeateFree said:

sibeen said:

THEIR

sibeen being even handed :)

Lets get this right too. Boris, sibeen and some others have made it quite clear that you don’t want me on the forum and try to annoy me so I will lose my temper and then you can say to the other members, see he should not be here. You are the people who do the deeds of DO, just because he buys you a beer. How pathetic is that?

He bought me a very, very nice beer. A Westvleteren 12, considered by many to be the best beer ever made, and quite difficult to get in Australia.

he bought me an BU a bacon flavoured beer in a pink bottle. fucking awful it was.

party_pants said:

sibeen said:

PermeateFree said:

Lets get this right too. Boris, sibeen and some others have made it quite clear that you don’t want me on the forum and try to annoy me so I will lose my temper and then you can say to the other members, see he should not be here. You are the people who do the deeds of DO, just because he buys you a beer. How pathetic is that?

He bought me a very, very nice beer. A Westvleteren 12, considered by many to be the best beer ever made, and quite difficult to get in Australia.

Last time I saw him he forgot his bloody wallet and I ended up paying for both lunch and drinks.

takes notes.

PermeateFree said:

Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

Now we see where you are coming from! No wonder you are not interested in the facts.

So only majority races are racist, when I get called a white c for not giving someone money is that racist or not.
When they get caught stealing and bash someone screaming out racial insults that OK

You just haven’t taken anything in have you? Just try putting yourself in the shoes of an Aborigine and knowing how your people have treated. I think they have been remarkably tolerant and forgiving, but are condemned in your mind by those that don’t think we are their salvation and resort to violence and verbal abuse. Your problem Cymek it you have only seen the bad and judge them all by that standard. Using the same comparison, do you think all whites are bastards too?

I’ve meant lovely Aboriginal people and have no problem with them, I don’t judge them by that standard or try not to.
I’m never abused an Aboriginal person I treat everyone the same in my job, help them as much as I can.
Certain behaviours seem to be excused and I think that’s wrong.
Aboriginal men, men and children have the same right of protection from violence and abuse as everyone else and it seems that its actual racist to excuse the perpetrators as you are saying the victims are less important

sibeen said:

PermeateFree said:

sibeen said:

THEIR

sibeen being even handed :)

Lets get this right too. Boris, sibeen and some others have made it quite clear that you don’t want me on the forum and try to annoy me so I will lose my temper and then you can say to the other members, see he should not be here. You are the people who do the deeds of DO, just because he buys you a beer. How pathetic is that?

He bought me a very, very nice beer. A Westvleteren 12, considered by many to be the best beer ever made, and quite difficult to get in Australia.

And now you can’t do enough for him can do? DO does not get involved, he gets people like you and Boris to be his bidding and he just sits back and laughs. You two are so easily taken in.

PermeateFree said:

Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

Well I be buggered, here was me thinking I was providing information and am usually in the grey because things are never as simple as they might seem, and here you are obviously with problems against Aboriginal people telling me that I am only black and white. Now that is a big, big laugh.

I have a problem when someone being Aboriginal is an excuse for anything they do wrong.
You think that’s OK, Aboriginal man bashes his wife, that OK white man made him do it, don’t lock him up let him do it again.
Should Aboriginal people be allowed to hurt others because of the past

That is NOT an excuse, but a reason why certain things have taken place and why there is so much dysfunction in their communities. When it is suggested how the problem could be improved, you automatically think they are incapable of doing so. Cymek, it is you who is the resist.

I don’t education and job is the best way to improve you life and self autonomy if possible but the worry is the powerful prey on the weak and that’s human nature it seems.

PermeateFree said:

sibeen said:

PermeateFree said:

Lets get this right too. Boris, sibeen and some others have made it quite clear that you don’t want me on the forum and try to annoy me so I will lose my temper and then you can say to the other members, see he should not be here. You are the people who do the deeds of DO, just because he buys you a beer. How pathetic is that?

He bought me a very, very nice beer. A Westvleteren 12, considered by many to be the best beer ever made, and quite difficult to get in Australia.

And now you can’t do enough for him can do? DO does not get involved, he gets people like you and Boris to be his bidding and he just sits back and laughs. You two are so easily taken in.

Who is DO ?

Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

sibeen said:

He bought me a very, very nice beer. A Westvleteren 12, considered by many to be the best beer ever made, and quite difficult to get in Australia.

And now you can’t do enough for him can do? DO does not get involved, he gets people like you and Boris to be his bidding and he just sits back and laughs. You two are so easily taken in.

Who is DO ?

Dark Orange.

Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

Cymek said:

So only majority races are racist, when I get called a white c for not giving someone money is that racist or not.
When they get caught stealing and bash someone screaming out racial insults that OK

You just haven’t taken anything in have you? Just try putting yourself in the shoes of an Aborigine and knowing how your people have treated. I think they have been remarkably tolerant and forgiving, but are condemned in your mind by those that don’t think we are their salvation and resort to violence and verbal abuse. Your problem Cymek it you have only seen the bad and judge them all by that standard. Using the same comparison, do you think all whites are bastards too?

I’ve meant lovely Aboriginal people and have no problem with them, I don’t judge them by that standard or try not to.
I’m never abused an Aboriginal person I treat everyone the same in my job, help them as much as I can.
Certain behaviours seem to be excused and I think that’s wrong.
Aboriginal men, men and children have the same right of protection from violence and abuse as everyone else and it seems that its actual racist to excuse the perpetrators as you are saying the victims are less important

I’ll give you an example I remember an Aboriginal man who was put on a community order he didn’t complete for throwing boiling water on his partner who was in the shower, he did this a number of times, she was quite badly burnt. Is that an acceptable outcome to protect that women.

ChrispenEvan said:

Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

And now you can’t do enough for him can do? DO does not get involved, he gets people like you and Boris to be his bidding and he just sits back and laughs. You two are so easily taken in.

Who is DO ?

Dark Orange.

That’s what I thought, does he post on here under that name or am I being thick and don’t know his handle

Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

Cymek said:

So only majority races are racist, when I get called a white c for not giving someone money is that racist or not.
When they get caught stealing and bash someone screaming out racial insults that OK

You just haven’t taken anything in have you? Just try putting yourself in the shoes of an Aborigine and knowing how your people have treated. I think they have been remarkably tolerant and forgiving, but are condemned in your mind by those that don’t think we are their salvation and resort to violence and verbal abuse. Your problem Cymek it you have only seen the bad and judge them all by that standard. Using the same comparison, do you think all whites are bastards too?

I’ve meant lovely Aboriginal people and have no problem with them, I don’t judge them by that standard or try not to.
I’m never abused an Aboriginal person I treat everyone the same in my job, help them as much as I can.
Certain behaviours seem to be excused and I think that’s wrong.
Aboriginal men, men and children have the same right of protection from violence and abuse as everyone else and it seems that its actual racist to excuse the perpetrators as you are saying the victims are less important

I am saying no such thing, only if you really want to protect them and change attitudes, then they must be given the permission to act for themselves. It is people like you who with your self-righteous platitudes that deny them the protection their community could provide if given the right.

Cymek said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Cymek said:

Who is DO ?

Dark Orange.

That’s what I thought, does he post on here under that name or am I being thick and don’t know his handle

he doesn’t post here. he doesn’t post much on FB that i see.

Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

Cymek said:

I have a problem when someone being Aboriginal is an excuse for anything they do wrong.
You think that’s OK, Aboriginal man bashes his wife, that OK white man made him do it, don’t lock him up let him do it again.
Should Aboriginal people be allowed to hurt others because of the past

That is NOT an excuse, but a reason why certain things have taken place and why there is so much dysfunction in their communities. When it is suggested how the problem could be improved, you automatically think they are incapable of doing so. Cymek, it is you who is the resist.

I don’t education and job is the best way to improve you life and self autonomy if possible but the worry is the powerful prey on the weak and that’s human nature it seems.

How long do you think that has been tried and failed? Get real!

PermeateFree said:

Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

You just haven’t taken anything in have you? Just try putting yourself in the shoes of an Aborigine and knowing how your people have treated. I think they have been remarkably tolerant and forgiving, but are condemned in your mind by those that don’t think we are their salvation and resort to violence and verbal abuse. Your problem Cymek it you have only seen the bad and judge them all by that standard. Using the same comparison, do you think all whites are bastards too?

I’ve meant lovely Aboriginal people and have no problem with them, I don’t judge them by that standard or try not to.
I’m never abused an Aboriginal person I treat everyone the same in my job, help them as much as I can.
Certain behaviours seem to be excused and I think that’s wrong.
Aboriginal men, men and children have the same right of protection from violence and abuse as everyone else and it seems that its actual racist to excuse the perpetrators as you are saying the victims are less important

I am saying no such thing, only if you really want to protect them and change attitudes, then they must be given the permission to act for themselves. It is people like you who with your self-righteous platitudes that deny them the protection their community could provide if given the right.

Are you talking tribal law ?

So MacMillan overtook Strezlecki’s party. Strezlecki went on to discover Australia’s second highest mountain and named it Kosciusko. MacMillan found Gippsland.

Later Mt Kosciusko and Mt Townsend had their names swapped.

ChrispenEvan said:

Cymek said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Dark Orange.

That’s what I thought, does he post on here under that name or am I being thick and don’t know his handle

he doesn’t post here. he doesn’t post much on FB that i see.

So how is anyone his lackey

PermeateFree said:

Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

That is NOT an excuse, but a reason why certain things have taken place and why there is so much dysfunction in their communities. When it is suggested how the problem could be improved, you automatically think they are incapable of doing so. Cymek, it is you who is the resist.

I don’t education and job is the best way to improve you life and self autonomy if possible but the worry is the powerful prey on the weak and that’s human nature it seems.

How long do you think that has been tried and failed? Get real!

It’s true though, no job or education gets you nothing no matter who you are

Cymek said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Cymek said:

That’s what I thought, does he post on here under that name or am I being thick and don’t know his handle

he doesn’t post here. he doesn’t post much on FB that i see.

So how is anyone his lackey

god knows. PF has this “thing” about him.

Cymek said:

Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

You just haven’t taken anything in have you? Just try putting yourself in the shoes of an Aborigine and knowing how your people have treated. I think they have been remarkably tolerant and forgiving, but are condemned in your mind by those that don’t think we are their salvation and resort to violence and verbal abuse. Your problem Cymek it you have only seen the bad and judge them all by that standard. Using the same comparison, do you think all whites are bastards too?

I’ve meant lovely Aboriginal people and have no problem with them, I don’t judge them by that standard or try not to.
I’m never abused an Aboriginal person I treat everyone the same in my job, help them as much as I can.
Certain behaviours seem to be excused and I think that’s wrong.
Aboriginal men, men and children have the same right of protection from violence and abuse as everyone else and it seems that its actual racist to excuse the perpetrators as you are saying the victims are less important

I’ll give you an example I remember an Aboriginal man who was put on a community order he didn’t complete for throwing boiling water on his partner who was in the shower, he did this a number of times, she was quite badly burnt. Is that an acceptable outcome to protect that women.

Don’t be so bloody stupid, of course it is not right. I have repeatedly said there are many problem with many dysfunctional people and all you offer to stop it is more of the same.

Cymek said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Cymek said:

That’s what I thought, does he post on here under that name or am I being thick and don’t know his handle

he doesn’t post here. he doesn’t post much on FB that i see.

So how is anyone his lackey

Westvleteren 12…just saying.

There is no future or value in preserving obsolete cultures and traditions, whether they be Aboriginal or Victorian era – British Empire values, they have no future value.

Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

Cymek said:

I’ve meant lovely Aboriginal people and have no problem with them, I don’t judge them by that standard or try not to.
I’m never abused an Aboriginal person I treat everyone the same in my job, help them as much as I can.
Certain behaviours seem to be excused and I think that’s wrong.
Aboriginal men, men and children have the same right of protection from violence and abuse as everyone else and it seems that its actual racist to excuse the perpetrators as you are saying the victims are less important

I am saying no such thing, only if you really want to protect them and change attitudes, then they must be given the permission to act for themselves. It is people like you who with your self-righteous platitudes that deny them the protection their community could provide if given the right.

Are you talking tribal law ?

To a degree for what is functional in this age. I don’t think spearing in the leg etc, would be suitable, but judgement by the elders is very important and was the basis of their culture. Aboriginal teenagers who currently run wild have no respect for whitemans law, but they react very differently when being judged by their elders.

Cymek said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Cymek said:

That’s what I thought, does he post on here under that name or am I being thick and don’t know his handle

he doesn’t post here. he doesn’t post much on FB that i see.

So how is anyone his lackey

Like everything else you need to know the history, because without it you know very little and can be easily manipulated by those who wish to benefit.

ChrispenEvan said:

Cymek said:

ChrispenEvan said:

he doesn’t post here. he doesn’t post much on FB that i see.

So how is anyone his lackey

god knows. PF has this “thing” about him.

I not as forgiving as most Aborigines, he has lied and done his utmost to destroy me, often with the help of some here. He is a psychopath that can charm others into doing his bidding.

party_pants said:

There is no future or value in preserving obsolete cultures and traditions, whether they be Aboriginal or Victorian era – British Empire values, they have no future value.

Most likely not which is why you adapt and combine them with the dominant culture to survive

Please be kind to PermeateFree. It must be hell for him to find out that a relative was a mass murderer, and of aboriginal people too.

I have enough trouble coping with fact that some of my direct ancestors owned slaves and one (thankfully by marriage and not by blood) was famous for violently abusing her slaves. But none of my ancestors are infamous to the same extent as Angus McMillan.

PermeateFree said:

Cymek said:

ChrispenEvan said:

he doesn’t post here. he doesn’t post much on FB that i see.

So how is anyone his lackey

Like everything else you need to know the history, because without it you know very little and can be easily manipulated by those who wish to benefit.

I’ve been around since 2005 and don’t remember him being a tool

PermeateFree said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Cymek said:

So how is anyone his lackey

god knows. PF has this “thing” about him.

I not as forgiving as most Aborigines, he has lied and done his utmost to destroy me, often with the help of some here. He is a psychopath that can charm others into doing his bidding.

When was this, I don’t remember him posting here at all

Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

Cymek said:

So how is anyone his lackey

Like everything else you need to know the history, because without it you know very little and can be easily manipulated by those who wish to benefit.

I’ve been around since 2005 and don’t remember him being a tool

and Cymek has met me and others in our Perth group so I reckon he would have a better handle on what we are like.

mollwollfumble said:

Please be kind to PermeateFree. It must be hell for him to find out that a relative was a mass murderer, and of aboriginal people too.

I have enough trouble coping with fact that some of my direct ancestors owned slaves and one (thankfully by marriage and not by blood) was famous for violently abusing her slaves. But none of my ancestors are infamous to the same extent as Angus McMillan.

You aren’t responsible for the actions of relatives long before you were born

party_pants said:

There is no future or value in preserving obsolete cultures and traditions, whether they be Aboriginal or Victorian era – British Empire values, they have no future value.

I am amazed! We have done everything to destroy their culture. They were driven into missions to save them from being shot by the settlers, but they were not saved, as their culture was ripped from them leaving them only Jesus. Some exchange.

sibeen said:

Cymek said:

ChrispenEvan said:

he doesn’t post here. he doesn’t post much on FB that i see.

So how is anyone his lackey

Westvleteren 12…just saying.

So he’s paying tribute to you? Certainly knows which side his bread is buttered…

mollwollfumble said:

Please be kind to PermeateFree. It must be hell for him to find out that a relative was a mass murderer, and of aboriginal people too.

I have enough trouble coping with fact that some of my direct ancestors owned slaves and one (thankfully by marriage and not by blood) was famous for violently abusing her slaves. But none of my ancestors are infamous to the same extent as Angus McMillan.

You again misread the original article. Angus McMillan has nothing to do with me, nor do I with the Scots.

Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

Cymek said:

So how is anyone his lackey

Like everything else you need to know the history, because without it you know very little and can be easily manipulated by those who wish to benefit.

I’ve been around since 2005 and don’t remember him being a tool

That’s because he is regarded as someone special here, because he can charm people so well that they like him therefore giving him influence over them. This is what this guy does for amusement and he is very good at it. There is only one person in this world and that is himself, others are just there to serve.

Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

ChrispenEvan said:

god knows. PF has this “thing” about him.

I not as forgiving as most Aborigines, he has lied and done his utmost to destroy me, often with the help of some here. He is a psychopath that can charm others into doing his bidding.

When was this, I don’t remember him posting here at all

Goes back a long way to SSSF

PermeateFree said:

mollwollfumble said:

Please be kind to PermeateFree. It must be hell for him to find out that a relative was a mass murderer, and of aboriginal people too.

I have enough trouble coping with fact that some of my direct ancestors owned slaves and one (thankfully by marriage and not by blood) was famous for violently abusing her slaves. But none of my ancestors are infamous to the same extent as Angus McMillan.

You again misread the original article. Angus McMillan has nothing to do with me, nor do I with the Scots.

> I had a famous great-great-great uncle, I learned: Angus McMillan

Oh, you were quoting the Guardian. My apologies.

Cymek said:

mollwollfumble said:

Please be kind to PermeateFree. It must be hell for him to find out that a relative was a mass murderer, and of aboriginal people too.

I have enough trouble coping with fact that some of my direct ancestors owned slaves and one (thankfully by marriage and not by blood) was famous for violently abusing her slaves. But none of my ancestors are infamous to the same extent as Angus McMillan.

You aren’t responsible for the actions of relatives long before you were born

You are if your ancestors brought a people to its knees and who remain there thanks to the ignorance and arrogance and couldn’t give a stuff of their descendants.

ChrispenEvan said:

sibeen said:

PermeateFree said:

Lets get this right too. Boris, sibeen and some others have made it quite clear that you don’t want me on the forum and try to annoy me so I will lose my temper and then you can say to the other members, see he should not be here. You are the people who do the deeds of DO, just because he buys you a beer. How pathetic is that?

He bought me a very, very nice beer. A Westvleteren 12, considered by many to be the best beer ever made, and quite difficult to get in Australia.

he bought me an BU a bacon flavoured beer in a pink bottle. fucking awful it was.

so… it’s not all about the beer?

Arts said:

ChrispenEvan said:

sibeen said:

He bought me a very, very nice beer. A Westvleteren 12, considered by many to be the best beer ever made, and quite difficult to get in Australia.

he bought me an BU a bacon flavoured beer in a pink bottle. fucking awful it was.

so… it’s not all about the beer?

he’d have to lift his game is all i’m saying.

PermeateFree said:

Cymek said:

mollwollfumble said:

Please be kind to PermeateFree. It must be hell for him to find out that a relative was a mass murderer, and of aboriginal people too.

I have enough trouble coping with fact that some of my direct ancestors owned slaves and one (thankfully by marriage and not by blood) was famous for violently abusing her slaves. But none of my ancestors are infamous to the same extent as Angus McMillan.

You aren’t responsible for the actions of relatives long before you were born

You are if your ancestors brought a people to its knees and who remain there thanks to the ignorance and arrogance and couldn’t give a stuff of their descendants.

I think that if you try to do better, then you are on the right track.

Arts said:

ChrispenEvan said:

sibeen said:

He bought me a very, very nice beer. A Westvleteren 12, considered by many to be the best beer ever made, and quite difficult to get in Australia.

he bought me an BU a bacon flavoured beer in a pink bottle. fucking awful it was.

so… it’s not all about the beer?

falls off chair

Unfortunately perhaps unless Aboriginal culture adapts nothing will change and probably get worse as the world is heading towards an even more dog eat dog mentality. Culture dies and history is littered with examples

ChrispenEvan said:

Arts said:

ChrispenEvan said:

he bought me an BU a bacon flavoured beer in a pink bottle. fucking awful it was.

so… it’s not all about the beer?

he’d have to lift his game is all i’m saying.

It doesn’t really matter how he charms you, just as long as you think him a good friend and like friends everywhere you will help him if possible, which is what DO attempts to do. However, you may think he is your friend, but you are not his. You are only important if you boost his ego and can do his bidding. He does not need to befriend all, he just needs to influence the most influential within the group, who will then influence the others. Simple and quite brilliant really.

Cymek said:

Unfortunately perhaps unless Aboriginal culture adapts nothing will change and probably get worse as the world is heading towards an even more dog eat dog mentality. Culture dies and history is littered with examples

You know absolutely nothing about Aboriginal culture, you don’t even know what we did with it and you are not interested in finding out. In fact Cymek you are like most people in this country.

PermeateFree said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Arts said:

so… it’s not all about the beer?

he’d have to lift his game is all i’m saying.

It doesn’t really matter how he charms you, just as long as you think him a good friend and like friends everywhere you will help him if possible, which is what DO attempts to do. However, you may think he is your friend, but you are not his. You are only important if you boost his ego and can do his bidding. He does not need to befriend all, he just needs to influence the most influential within the group, who will then influence the others. Simple and quite brilliant really.

you give him a lot of credit

Arts said:

PermeateFree said:

ChrispenEvan said:

he’d have to lift his game is all i’m saying.

It doesn’t really matter how he charms you, just as long as you think him a good friend and like friends everywhere you will help him if possible, which is what DO attempts to do. However, you may think he is your friend, but you are not his. You are only important if you boost his ego and can do his bidding. He does not need to befriend all, he just needs to influence the most influential within the group, who will then influence the others. Simple and quite brilliant really.

you give him a lot of credit

Don’t make us sanction you with re-education!

Arts said:

PermeateFree said:

ChrispenEvan said:

he’d have to lift his game is all i’m saying.

It doesn’t really matter how he charms you, just as long as you think him a good friend and like friends everywhere you will help him if possible, which is what DO attempts to do. However, you may think he is your friend, but you are not his. You are only important if you boost his ego and can do his bidding. He does not need to befriend all, he just needs to influence the most influential within the group, who will then influence the others. Simple and quite brilliant really.

you give him a lot of credit

He’s The Prince.

Arts said:

PermeateFree said:

ChrispenEvan said:

he’d have to lift his game is all i’m saying.

It doesn’t really matter how he charms you, just as long as you think him a good friend and like friends everywhere you will help him if possible, which is what DO attempts to do. However, you may think he is your friend, but you are not his. You are only important if you boost his ego and can do his bidding. He does not need to befriend all, he just needs to influence the most influential within the group, who will then influence the others. Simple and quite brilliant really.

you give him a lot of credit

delusional if you ask me.

sibeen said:

Arts said:

PermeateFree said:

It doesn’t really matter how he charms you, just as long as you think him a good friend and like friends everywhere you will help him if possible, which is what DO attempts to do. However, you may think he is your friend, but you are not his. You are only important if you boost his ego and can do his bidding. He does not need to befriend all, he just needs to influence the most influential within the group, who will then influence the others. Simple and quite brilliant really.

you give him a lot of credit

He’s The Prince.

Lucas?

PermeateFree said:

Cymek said:

Unfortunately perhaps unless Aboriginal culture adapts nothing will change and probably get worse as the world is heading towards an even more dog eat dog mentality. Culture dies and history is littered with examples

You know absolutely nothing about Aboriginal culture, you don’t even know what we did with it and you are not interested in finding out. In fact Cymek you are like most people in this country.

Probably. Have either of you read the book “The Aborigines of south-eastern Australia”, 1971.
I highly recommend it, I found it to be an extremely enlightening book.

Arts said:

PermeateFree said:

ChrispenEvan said:

he’d have to lift his game is all i’m saying.

It doesn’t really matter how he charms you, just as long as you think him a good friend and like friends everywhere you will help him if possible, which is what DO attempts to do. However, you may think he is your friend, but you are not his. You are only important if you boost his ego and can do his bidding. He does not need to befriend all, he just needs to influence the most influential within the group, who will then influence the others. Simple and quite brilliant really.

you give him a lot of credit

He deserves it, he is very good.

ChrispenEvan said:

Arts said:

PermeateFree said:

It doesn’t really matter how he charms you, just as long as you think him a good friend and like friends everywhere you will help him if possible, which is what DO attempts to do. However, you may think he is your friend, but you are not his. You are only important if you boost his ego and can do his bidding. He does not need to befriend all, he just needs to influence the most influential within the group, who will then influence the others. Simple and quite brilliant really.

you give him a lot of credit

delusional if you ask me.

What else would you say. :)))

mollwollfumble said:

PermeateFree said:

Cymek said:

Unfortunately perhaps unless Aboriginal culture adapts nothing will change and probably get worse as the world is heading towards an even more dog eat dog mentality. Culture dies and history is littered with examples

You know absolutely nothing about Aboriginal culture, you don’t even know what we did with it and you are not interested in finding out. In fact Cymek you are like most people in this country.

Probably. Have either of you read the book “The Aborigines of south-eastern Australia”, 1971.
I highly recommend it, I found it to be an extremely enlightening book.

I have the latest account in Aboriginal Biocultural Knowlege in South-eastern Australia 2018, plus I have read many others.

For some reason books about aboriginal history are always expensive.

AwesomeO said:

For some reason books about aboriginal history are always expensive.

Not all are. I have a fw thta were only $2 ach.

Michael V said:

sibeen said:

Arts said:

you give him a lot of credit

He’s The Prince.

Lucas?

Machiavelli.

sibeen said:

Michael V said:

sibeen said:

He’s The Prince.

Lucas?

Machiavelli.

according to PF, Charming.

ChrispenEvan said:

sibeen said:

Michael V said:

Lucas?

Machiavelli.

according to PF, Charming.

Psychopaths tend to be like that in order to get what they want.

PermeateFree said:

ChrispenEvan said:

sibeen said:

Machiavelli.

according to PF, Charming.

Psychopaths tend to be like that in order to get what they want.

Some of them.

I think the ministry that handles aboriginal affairs should be a bipartisan appointment at both state and federal levels.
The minister could come from any of the parties or independents and sit in on cabinet discussion pertaining to their portfolio and be appointed by the speaker or maybe by the governors or governor general.
That would go some way to stop aboriginal affairs being a political football and being about the welfare of first nation people.
The person appointed would still have to be an elected representative in the usual manner.

PermeateFree said:

party_pants said:

There is no future or value in preserving obsolete cultures and traditions, whether they be Aboriginal or Victorian era – British Empire values, they have no future value.

I am amazed! We have done everything to destroy their culture. They were driven into missions to save them from being shot by the settlers, but they were not saved, as their culture was ripped from them leaving them only Jesus. Some exchange.

Jesus is a load of shit too. We need to come up with some new and modern post-traditional, post-Christian culture that everyone can participate in. There is no future in trying to set up some sort of bubble to restore Aboriginal lands and culture to exactly what they were before European settlement and preserve them from outside influence and contamination for perpetuity. You can only make amends by making a better future, not by recreating the past.

mollwollfumble said:

PermeateFree said:

Cymek said:

Unfortunately perhaps unless Aboriginal culture adapts nothing will change and probably get worse as the world is heading towards an even more dog eat dog mentality. Culture dies and history is littered with examples

You know absolutely nothing about Aboriginal culture, you don’t even know what we did with it and you are not interested in finding out. In fact Cymek you are like most people in this country.

Probably. Have either of you read the book “The Aborigines of south-eastern Australia”, 1971.
I highly recommend it, I found it to be an extremely enlightening book.

Thanks for telling me what I know about, how about it comes down to evolution and survival of the fittest, adapt or die out. Look at history more extinct cultures than ones currently in existence, if you don’t change and adapt you become obsolete. You can’t go back to the ways of the past, change is an universal constant. We can help people adopt a new culture and no it doesn’t have to be like ours, you need money to survive in this world it doesn’t have to rule you but it is needed

party_pants said:

PermeateFree said:

party_pants said:

There is no future or value in preserving obsolete cultures and traditions, whether they be Aboriginal or Victorian era – British Empire values, they have no future value.

I am amazed! We have done everything to destroy their culture. They were driven into missions to save them from being shot by the settlers, but they were not saved, as their culture was ripped from them leaving them only Jesus. Some exchange.

Jesus is a load of shit too. We need to come up with some new and modern post-traditional, post-Christian culture that everyone can participate in. There is no future in trying to set up some sort of bubble to restore Aboriginal lands and culture to exactly what they were before European settlement and preserve them from outside influence and contamination for perpetuity. You can only make amends by making a better future, not by recreating the past.

No body is asking to restore Aboriginal lands to what they were, what they are asking for is to have some say on issues that affect them. What is so bad about that?

PermeateFree said:

party_pants said:

PermeateFree said:

I am amazed! We have done everything to destroy their culture. They were driven into missions to save them from being shot by the settlers, but they were not saved, as their culture was ripped from them leaving them only Jesus. Some exchange.

Jesus is a load of shit too. We need to come up with some new and modern post-traditional, post-Christian culture that everyone can participate in. There is no future in trying to set up some sort of bubble to restore Aboriginal lands and culture to exactly what they were before European settlement and preserve them from outside influence and contamination for perpetuity. You can only make amends by making a better future, not by recreating the past.

No body is asking to restore Aboriginal lands to what they were, what they are asking for is to have some say on issues that affect them. What is so bad about that?

It is bad that it has taken this long not to happen.

PermeateFree said:

party_pants said:

PermeateFree said:

I am amazed! We have done everything to destroy their culture. They were driven into missions to save them from being shot by the settlers, but they were not saved, as their culture was ripped from them leaving them only Jesus. Some exchange.

Jesus is a load of shit too. We need to come up with some new and modern post-traditional, post-Christian culture that everyone can participate in. There is no future in trying to set up some sort of bubble to restore Aboriginal lands and culture to exactly what they were before European settlement and preserve them from outside influence and contamination for perpetuity. You can only make amends by making a better future, not by recreating the past.

No body is asking to restore Aboriginal lands to what they were, what they are asking for is to have some say on issues that affect them. What is so bad about that?

That was not the question. The question was what can you do to make amends for the deeds of your ancestor.

PermeateFree said:

party_pants said:

PermeateFree said:

I am amazed! We have done everything to destroy their culture. They were driven into missions to save them from being shot by the settlers, but they were not saved, as their culture was ripped from them leaving them only Jesus. Some exchange.

Jesus is a load of shit too. We need to come up with some new and modern post-traditional, post-Christian culture that everyone can participate in. There is no future in trying to set up some sort of bubble to restore Aboriginal lands and culture to exactly what they were before European settlement and preserve them from outside influence and contamination for perpetuity. You can only make amends by making a better future, not by recreating the past.

No body is asking to restore Aboriginal lands to what they were, what they are asking for is to have some say on issues that affect them. What is so bad about that?

I know from AAACAP they were consulted out the ying yang. Didn’t do any good, after the return the following year consensuson the ground was fuckem.

Cymek said:

mollwollfumble said:

PermeateFree said:

You know absolutely nothing about Aboriginal culture, you don’t even know what we did with it and you are not interested in finding out. In fact Cymek you are like most people in this country.

Probably. Have either of you read the book “The Aborigines of south-eastern Australia”, 1971.
I highly recommend it, I found it to be an extremely enlightening book.

Thanks for telling me what I know about, how about it comes down to evolution and survival of the fittest, adapt or die out. Look at history more extinct cultures than ones currently in existence, if you don’t change and adapt you become obsolete. You can’t go back to the ways of the past, change is an universal constant. We can help people adopt a new culture and no it doesn’t have to be like ours, you need money to survive in this world it doesn’t have to rule you but it is needed

Lets get a little understanding here. If you can imagine the worst public bar in the worst pub in the worst suburb, their customers are unlikely to be educated, morally pure or of high intellect, yet these people were regarded as being above the Aboriginal and even have the right to kill them and rape their women, just imagine having to survive with such people, but that aside, it this what you are referring to as a superior culture? Evolution is not about the survival of the fittest, but the best adaptive to the environment. We have still not adapted to the environment, but have largely slaughtered it. It is just about those drunken thugs coming down with more effective weapons that won, yes the thugs won and yes they were British.

Aborigines had a very good culture well adapted to this land and we could have learnt so much from them, instead we did as we felt like doing and largely destroyed the place. We were not superior and did not have a superior culture, we were like some alien getting rid of an irritant so we could more easily grab what we wanted.

We have Koori Court in Victoria. Do other states have something like that?

https://www.magistratescourt.vic.gov.au/koori-court

party_pants said:

PermeateFree said:

party_pants said:

Jesus is a load of shit too. We need to come up with some new and modern post-traditional, post-Christian culture that everyone can participate in. There is no future in trying to set up some sort of bubble to restore Aboriginal lands and culture to exactly what they were before European settlement and preserve them from outside influence and contamination for perpetuity. You can only make amends by making a better future, not by recreating the past.

No body is asking to restore Aboriginal lands to what they were, what they are asking for is to have some say on issues that affect them. What is so bad about that?

That was not the question. The question was what can you do to make amends for the deeds of your ancestor.

Understand and treat them with respect, let them live their lives under their own direction. You can help to do this by learning about their history to make them and their achievements real and not just some troublesome blacks that should be locked up.

PermeateFree said:

party_pants said:

PermeateFree said:

No body is asking to restore Aboriginal lands to what they were, what they are asking for is to have some say on issues that affect them. What is so bad about that?

That was not the question. The question was what can you do to make amends for the deeds of your ancestor.

Understand and treat them with respect, let them live their lives under their own direction. You can help to do this by learning about their history to make them and their achievements real and not just some troublesome blacks that should be locked up.

it depends on what they want.

buffy said:

We have Koori Court in Victoria. Do other states have something like that?

https://www.magistratescourt.vic.gov.au/koori-court

That is an intermediate advisory step towards granting them the rights to maintain control and judge what happens to their own people in their own communities. This is not going to let people off, it is to teach the offender and stop them from re-offending. They are not going to just give them a tap on the wrist and let them go, they can be a lot tougher if they need to be, but have a very different way of doing so.

party_pants said:

PermeateFree said:

party_pants said:

That was not the question. The question was what can you do to make amends for the deeds of your ancestor.

Understand and treat them with respect, let them live their lives under their own direction. You can help to do this by learning about their history to make them and their achievements real and not just some troublesome blacks that should be locked up.

it depends on what they want.

Self determination, they don’t want your house and garden.

buffy said:

We have Koori Court in Victoria. Do other states have something like that?

https://www.magistratescourt.vic.gov.au/koori-court

WA has Aboriginal Community Court

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aboriginal_Community_Court

but both serve under he justice department and are sentencing influence only… a lot of the issue involved in over representation has to do with arrest and current court procedure…

PermeateFree said:

party_pants said:

PermeateFree said:

Understand and treat them with respect, let them live their lives under their own direction. You can help to do this by learning about their history to make them and their achievements real and not just some troublesome blacks that should be locked up.

it depends on what they want.

Self determination, they don’t want your house and garden.

Can I sail a boat on Lake Eyre, or fly in a plane over Lake Disappointment?

PermeateFree said:

>>In 2011 I made an uncomfortable discovery about my family history. I had a famous great-great-great uncle, I learned: Angus McMillan. He was an explorer of early Australia, but in recent years he has also been identified as the man responsible for a series of massacres of the Gunai (sometimes referred to as the Gunaikurnai) people of Gippsland in the south-eastern state of Victoria.

These attacks were cold-blooded and without mercy. Men with guns descended upon unsuspecting encampments, killing men, women and children; they were killed, as one settler wrote later, “whenever can be met with”. In the first 10 years of settlement in Gippsland, the Gunai population fell by more than 90%, to little more than 100 individuals.

McMillan had fled Scotland during the time of the Highland Clearances but, in a cruel irony, he went on to enact brutal clearances of his own upon his new country, the worst at Warrigal Creek in 1843, where 80 to 200 members of the Bratowooloong clan were killed in revenge for the murder of a single white settler.<<

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/may/21/aboriginal-sorry-day-massacre-gunai

Yes, Go back To Scotland.

party_pants said:

PermeateFree said:

party_pants said:

it depends on what they want.

Self determination, they don’t want your house and garden.

Can I sail a boat on Lake Eyre, or fly in a plane over Lake Disappointment?

That is not on their land so I don’t see why not. Nothing needs to change other than permitting them to make comment on any new government legislation affecting them, and to establish an indigenous policing environment run by themselves in their communities, which will only affect their people. They also need to be able to fully manage the land under their control.

Tau.Neutrino said:

PermeateFree said:

>>In 2011 I made an uncomfortable discovery about my family history. I had a famous great-great-great uncle, I learned: Angus McMillan. He was an explorer of early Australia, but in recent years he has also been identified as the man responsible for a series of massacres of the Gunai (sometimes referred to as the Gunaikurnai) people of Gippsland in the south-eastern state of Victoria.

These attacks were cold-blooded and without mercy. Men with guns descended upon unsuspecting encampments, killing men, women and children; they were killed, as one settler wrote later, “whenever can be met with”. In the first 10 years of settlement in Gippsland, the Gunai population fell by more than 90%, to little more than 100 individuals.

McMillan had fled Scotland during the time of the Highland Clearances but, in a cruel irony, he went on to enact brutal clearances of his own upon his new country, the worst at Warrigal Creek in 1843, where 80 to 200 members of the Bratowooloong clan were killed in revenge for the murder of a single white settler.<<

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/may/21/aboriginal-sorry-day-massacre-gunai

Yes, Go back To Scotland.

To whom do you refer; the highlanders I hope.

Maybe ABC 4 Corners could do a special on all decedents of mass murderers and their guilty consciousness will sent them all back to where they came from.

Must be off.

No time to talk to descendants of mass murders tonight, to busy shaking the tree outside.

PermeateFree said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

PermeateFree said:

>>In 2011 I made an uncomfortable discovery about my family history. I had a famous great-great-great uncle, I learned: Angus McMillan. He was an explorer of early Australia, but in recent years he has also been identified as the man responsible for a series of massacres of the Gunai (sometimes referred to as the Gunaikurnai) people of Gippsland in the south-eastern state of Victoria.

These attacks were cold-blooded and without mercy. Men with guns descended upon unsuspecting encampments, killing men, women and children; they were killed, as one settler wrote later, “whenever can be met with”. In the first 10 years of settlement in Gippsland, the Gunai population fell by more than 90%, to little more than 100 individuals.

McMillan had fled Scotland during the time of the Highland Clearances but, in a cruel irony, he went on to enact brutal clearances of his own upon his new country, the worst at Warrigal Creek in 1843, where 80 to 200 members of the Bratowooloong clan were killed in revenge for the murder of a single white settler.<<

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/may/21/aboriginal-sorry-day-massacre-gunai

Yes, Go back To Scotland.

To whom do you refer; the highlanders I hope.

The population of Scotland is around 5 mill. The diaspora is reckoned on being 30 to 70 mill. with most guesses coming in at around 50 mill.

sarahs mum said:

PermeateFree said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Yes, Go back To Scotland.

To whom do you refer; the highlanders I hope.

The population of Scotland is around 5 mill. The diaspora is reckoned on being 30 to 70 mill. with most guesses coming in at around 50 mill.

Comparable to Ireland.

sarahs mum said:

PermeateFree said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Yes, Go back To Scotland.

To whom do you refer; the highlanders I hope.

The population of Scotland is around 5 mill. The diaspora is reckoned on being 30 to 70 mill. with most guesses coming in at around 50 mill.

A few descendants of mass murderers wouldn’t make much difference.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Maybe ABC 4 Corners could do a special on all decedents of mass murderers and their guilty consciousness will sent them all back to where they came from.

All people should be educated about their history, they have been greatly maligned. We might then understand were they are coming from and realise our involvement in their plight, which should then lead to respect for them that is surely lacking.

My family (Irish origins) have an extensive history of mercenary soldiering. Something to do between potato crops, or while waiting for the whiskey to mature, i suppose.

We’d happily kill whoever you paid us to kill. No politics, no prejudices, just whoever was hiring at the time. If the other side came up with a better offer, no problem, we’d kill you, nothing personal, just business.

Did their bit for Ireland’s gene pool, too, it seems. Marrying nice Catholic girls from around the various parts of Europe, and bringing them home.

PermeateFree said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Maybe ABC 4 Corners could do a special on all decedents of mass murderers and their guilty consciousness will sent them all back to where they came from.

All people should be educated about their history, they have been greatly maligned. We might then understand were they are coming from and realise our involvement in their plight, which should then lead to respect for them that is surely lacking.

All of which should have been attended to long ago. At least these days, science wants to do that.

Tau.Neutrino said:

sarahs mum said:

PermeateFree said:

To whom do you refer; the highlanders I hope.

The population of Scotland is around 5 mill. The diaspora is reckoned on being 30 to 70 mill. with most guesses coming in at around 50 mill.

A few descendants of mass murderers wouldn’t make much difference.

how can you punish people for the crimes their ancestors did? where do you draw the line? probably at a point where it might affect you i imagine.

ChrispenEvan said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

sarahs mum said:

The population of Scotland is around 5 mill. The diaspora is reckoned on being 30 to 70 mill. with most guesses coming in at around 50 mill.

A few descendants of mass murderers wouldn’t make much difference.

how can you punish people for the crimes their ancestors did? where do you draw the line? probably at a point where it might affect you i imagine.

From my earlier post, which also applies to the descendants.

>>All people should be educated about their history, they have been greatly maligned. We might then understand were they are coming from and realise our involvement in their plight, which should then lead to respect for them that is surely lacking.<<

It is about understanding and respect Boris, something you seem to take for granted.

ChrispenEvan said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

sarahs mum said:

The population of Scotland is around 5 mill. The diaspora is reckoned on being 30 to 70 mill. with most guesses coming in at around 50 mill.

A few descendants of mass murderers wouldn’t make much difference.

how can you punish people for the crimes their ancestors did? where do you draw the line? probably at a point where it might affect you i imagine.

Justice! Send any descendants of mass murderers to jail for crimes that their ancestors got away with.

Then deport them back to where they came from.

Folds Arms.

PermeateFree said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

A few descendants of mass murderers wouldn’t make much difference.

how can you punish people for the crimes their ancestors did? where do you draw the line? probably at a point where it might affect you i imagine.

From my earlier post, which also applies to the descendants.

>>All people should be educated about their history, they have been greatly maligned. We might then understand were they are coming from and realise our involvement in their plight, which should then lead to respect for them that is surely lacking.<<

It is about understanding and respect Boris, something you seem to take for granted.

that has no connection to what i posted. try again.

Tau.Neutrino said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

A few descendants of mass murderers wouldn’t make much difference.

how can you punish people for the crimes their ancestors did? where do you draw the line? probably at a point where it might affect you i imagine.

Justice! Send any descendants of mass murderers to jail for crimes that their ancestors got away with.

Then deport them back to where they came from.

Folds Arms.

fuck sake. place is full of halfwits.

Tau.Neutrino said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

A few descendants of mass murderers wouldn’t make much difference.

how can you punish people for the crimes their ancestors did? where do you draw the line? probably at a point where it might affect you i imagine.

Justice! Send any descendants of mass murderers to jail for crimes that their ancestors got away with.

Then deport them back to where they came from.

Folds Arms.

Do you hav a local vigilantes posse you can join?

Tau.Neutrino said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

A few descendants of mass murderers wouldn’t make much difference.

how can you punish people for the crimes their ancestors did? where do you draw the line? probably at a point where it might affect you i imagine.

Justice! Send any descendants of mass murderers to jail for crimes that their ancestors got away with.

Then deport them back to where they came from.

Folds Arms.

I can see one of your pointless lists coming up; as a matter of interest Tau, has Boris filled you with a load of crap to get you asking stupid questions?

ChrispenEvan said:

PermeateFree said:

ChrispenEvan said:

how can you punish people for the crimes their ancestors did? where do you draw the line? probably at a point where it might affect you i imagine.

From my earlier post, which also applies to the descendants.

>>All people should be educated about their history, they have been greatly maligned. We might then understand were they are coming from and realise our involvement in their plight, which should then lead to respect for them that is surely lacking.<<

It is about understanding and respect Boris, something you seem to take for granted.

that has no connection to what i posted. try again.

It has everything to do with your post, only you cannot see it.

He is asking how can he make amends.

I’m offering a few suggestions.

He can buy a boat and go back to Scotland.

He can offer to put himself in Jail.

He can do community work in Aboriginal communities riding a push generator for the local street lighting.

He can offer to drive Aboriginals around in his can at his expense.

I can write a longer list if he is really interested.

PermeateFree said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

ChrispenEvan said:

how can you punish people for the crimes their ancestors did? where do you draw the line? probably at a point where it might affect you i imagine.

Justice! Send any descendants of mass murderers to jail for crimes that their ancestors got away with.

Then deport them back to where they came from.

Folds Arms.

I can see one of your pointless lists coming up; as a matter of interest Tau, has Boris filled you with a load of crap to get you asking stupid questions?

poor old PF, mental as anything.

Tau.Neutrino said:

He is asking how can he make amends.

I’m offering a few suggestions.

He can buy a boat and go back to Scotland.

He can offer to put himself in Jail.

He can do community work in Aboriginal communities riding a push generator for the local street lighting.

He can offer to drive Aboriginals around in his can at his expense.

I can write a longer list if he is really interested.

another mental deficient.

ChrispenEvan said:

PermeateFree said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Justice! Send any descendants of mass murderers to jail for crimes that their ancestors got away with.

Then deport them back to where they came from.

Folds Arms.

I can see one of your pointless lists coming up; as a matter of interest Tau, has Boris filled you with a load of crap to get you asking stupid questions?

poor old PF, mental as anything.

Trouble with you Boris you are capable of anything.

ChrispenEvan said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

He is asking how can he make amends.

I’m offering a few suggestions.

He can buy a boat and go back to Scotland.

He can offer to put himself in Jail.

He can do community work in Aboriginal communities riding a push generator for the local street lighting.

He can offer to drive Aboriginals around in his can at his expense.

I can write a longer list if he is really interested.

another mental deficient.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWdgiFzpolA

Write a letter to some local Aboriginal Communities and ask kindly for their opinions.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Write a letter to some local Aboriginal Communities and ask kindly for their opinions.

Write a letter to the editorial section of some local newspapers.

Sit back and see what other people say.

ChrispenEvan said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

He is asking how can he make amends.

I’m offering a few suggestions.

He can buy a boat and go back to Scotland.

He can offer to put himself in Jail.

He can do community work in Aboriginal communities riding a push generator for the local street lighting.

He can offer to drive Aboriginals around in his can at his expense.

I can write a longer list if he is really interested.

another mental deficient.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWdgiFzpolA

You really are a nasty character Boris, don’t know why people give you their time. You are just rubbish, probably spent too much time with DO.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Write a letter to some local Aboriginal Communities and ask kindly for their opinions.

They have doing that for decades, the problem is people like you don’t listen.

PermeateFree said:

ChrispenEvan said:

PermeateFree said:

I can see one of your pointless lists coming up; as a matter of interest Tau, has Boris filled you with a load of crap to get you asking stupid questions?

poor old PF, mental as anything.

Trouble with you Boris you are capable of anything.

Which is actually a compliment.

John Cleese – How To Irritate People

roughbarked said:

PermeateFree said:

ChrispenEvan said:

poor old PF, mental as anything.

Trouble with you Boris you are capable of anything.

Which is actually a compliment.

Depends if you think him a hero or an arsehole.

PermeateFree said:

ChrispenEvan said:

ChrispenEvan said:

another mental deficient.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWdgiFzpolA

You really are a nasty character Boris, don’t know why people give you their time. You are just rubbish, probably spent too much time with DO.

Probably more with BU and other stout companions.

Tau.Neutrino said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

A few descendants of mass murderers wouldn’t make much difference.

how can you punish people for the crimes their ancestors did? where do you draw the line? probably at a point where it might affect you i imagine.

Justice! Send any descendants of mass murderers to jail for crimes that their ancestors got away with.

Then deport them back to where they came from.

Folds Arms.

Not that many people can fit in the rift valley.

sarahs mum said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

ChrispenEvan said:

how can you punish people for the crimes their ancestors did? where do you draw the line? probably at a point where it might affect you i imagine.

Justice! Send any descendants of mass murderers to jail for crimes that their ancestors got away with.

Then deport them back to where they came from.

Folds Arms.

Not that many people can fit in the rift valley.

fair.

sarahs mum said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

ChrispenEvan said:

how can you punish people for the crimes their ancestors did? where do you draw the line? probably at a point where it might affect you i imagine.

Justice! Send any descendants of mass murderers to jail for crimes that their ancestors got away with.

Then deport them back to where they came from.

Folds Arms.

Not that many people can fit in the rift valley.

They can make a artificial island off the coast of Scotland, then they can live there.

sarahs mum said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

ChrispenEvan said:

how can you punish people for the crimes their ancestors did? where do you draw the line? probably at a point where it might affect you i imagine.

Justice! Send any descendants of mass murderers to jail for crimes that their ancestors got away with.

Then deport them back to where they came from.

Folds Arms.

Not that many people can fit in the rift valley.

It’s got bigger over the last half-million years

Tau.Neutrino said:

sarahs mum said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Justice! Send any descendants of mass murderers to jail for crimes that their ancestors got away with.

Then deport them back to where they came from.

Folds Arms.

Not that many people can fit in the rift valley.

They can make a artificial island off the coast of Scotland, then they can live there.

You don’t get my drift. To blame the highlanders is to blame the english. If you keep reapportioning the blame you can go way back.

sarahs mum said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

sarahs mum said:

Not that many people can fit in the rift valley.

They can make a artificial island off the coast of Scotland, then they can live there.

You don’t get my drift. To blame the highlanders is to blame the english. If you keep reapportioning the blame you can go way back.

It all goes back to the Romans. Fucking miserable lot they were.

PermeateFree said:

ChrispenEvan said:

PermeateFree said:

I can see one of your pointless lists coming up; as a matter of interest Tau, has Boris filled you with a load of crap to get you asking stupid questions?

poor old PF, mental as anything.

Trouble with you Boris you are capable of anything.

Jaysus, I wouldn’t go that far.

Can you jump 2 metres vertically from a standing start, Boris?

sarahs mum said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

sarahs mum said:

Not that many people can fit in the rift valley.

They can make a artificial island off the coast of Scotland, then they can live there.

You don’t get my drift. To blame the highlanders is to blame the english. If you keep reapportioning the blame you can go way back.

yep, like i said, one does that until just before the point where it affects you personally. (not you SM)

sibeen said:

PermeateFree said:

ChrispenEvan said:

poor old PF, mental as anything.

Trouble with you Boris you are capable of anything.

Jaysus, I wouldn’t go that far.

Can you jump 2 metres vertically from a standing start, Boris?

if you give me a good reason i probably could.

ChrispenEvan said:

sibeen said:

PermeateFree said:

Trouble with you Boris you are capable of anything.

Jaysus, I wouldn’t go that far.

Can you jump 2 metres vertically from a standing start, Boris?

if you give me a good reason i probably could.

Standing on a brown snake realisation of the standing start position?

>>Linda Burney MP, speaking days after President Michael D Higgins recognised during a speech in Western Australia the role the Irish in injustices against the Aboriginal people, said that Irish were among those who maltreated the country’s indigenous people during Australia’s colonial period.

“I don’t think a lot of people make that connection,” she told The Irish Times ahead of a reception in Canberra’s Parliament House yesterday for Mr Higgins as part of his State visit to Australia.

“There’s the British, the Scottish, the Irish were all part of and participated in massacres and many other atrocities against Aboriginal people.”<<

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/irish-played-part-in-atrocities-against-aboriginal-people-australian-mp-1.3259993

Good morning everyone.

16.8°C, 84% RH, thick fog and calm. BoM tells me to expect a top of 25°C, (the fog’d better burn off quickly or that’ll be unachievable) and that there’s a small chance of rain this evening.