BREAKING: Complex Organic Molecules Discovered on Enceladus For The First Time

The plumes of salty water shooting out of Saturn’s ocean moon Enceladus have just ponied up one of the most significant ingredients for habitability: large organic molecules rich in carbon.

more…

Tau.Neutrino said:

BREAKING: Complex Organic Molecules Discovered on Enceladus For The First Time

The plumes of salty water shooting out of Saturn’s ocean moon Enceladus have just ponied up one of the most significant ingredients for habitability: large organic molecules rich in carbon.

more…

Given that Cassini is dead, they kept that quiet.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-018-0246-4

“Identified organic mass lines of individual HMOC spectra.” OK, so they measured mass spectra in both the Enceladus plume and in Saturn’s E ring, not chemical elements individually.

I count the peak at 191 mass units as 15 carbon atoms.

The ratio of carbon to other elements (eg. 1 carbon to 0.73 hydrogen atoms) suggests it has to be either high in double bonds or in rings.

!5 carbon atoms, 191 mass units is much bigger than anything else found in space
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_interstellar_and_circumstellar_molecules#Ten_or_more_atoms_(17)
other than fullerene.

mollwollfumble said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

BREAKING: Complex Organic Molecules Discovered on Enceladus For The First Time

The plumes of salty water shooting out of Saturn’s ocean moon Enceladus have just ponied up one of the most significant ingredients for habitability: large organic molecules rich in carbon.

more…

Given that Cassini is dead, they kept that quiet.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-018-0246-4

“Identified organic mass lines of individual HMOC spectra.” OK, so they measured mass spectra in both the Enceladus plume and in Saturn’s E ring, not chemical elements individually.

I count the peak at 191 mass units as 15 carbon atoms.

The ratio of carbon to other elements (eg. 1 carbon to 0.73 hydrogen atoms) suggests it has to be either high in double bonds or in rings.

!5 carbon atoms, 191 mass units is much bigger than anything else found in space
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_interstellar_and_circumstellar_molecules#Ten_or_more_atoms_(17)
other than fullerene.

Anthracene has 14 carbon atoms and a mass of 178. An exact match for the second last peak. These are PAH molecules.

Naphthelene has 10 carbon atoms and a mass of 128. Darn close to the peak at a mass of 129.

Unfortunately, PAH molecules like anthracene and naphthalene relatively easily produced abiologically. Heat any carbon containing compound in a vacuum.

But in Enceladus case, where did the heat come from? And it’s fair to assume that these were produced subsurface, where there’s no vacuum.

For carbonaceous meteorites, the presence of PAH molecules like anthracene and naphthalene is much easier to understand.

eg. “Polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs) in C1 and C2 Carbonaceous Chondrites appear to be the product of a high-temperature synthesis. This observation counters a prevailing view that PAHs in meteorites are a thermal alteration product of preexisting aliphatic compounds, which in turn required the presence of low-temperature mineral phases such as magnetite and hydrated phyllosilicates for their formation.”

mollwollfumble said:

Unfortunately, PAH molecules like anthracene and naphthalene relatively easily produced abiologically. Heat any carbon containing compound in a vacuum.

But in Enceladus case, where did the heat come from? And it’s fair to assume that these were produced subsurface, where there’s no vacuum.

For carbonaceous meteorites, the presence of PAH molecules like anthracene and naphthalene is much easier to understand.

eg. “Polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs) in C1 and C2 Carbonaceous Chondrites appear to be the product of a high-temperature synthesis. This observation counters a prevailing view that PAHs in meteorites are a thermal alteration product of preexisting aliphatic compounds, which in turn required the presence of low-temperature mineral phases such as magnetite and hydrated phyllosilicates for their formation.”

There is another way to make anthracene, one that is somewhat more promising. Heat a carbohydrate like sugar in an aqueous environment. Sugar would be a good sign of life.

The key to making anthracene is to have some way to remove the hydrogen, a water environment with an excess of oxygen over hydrogen will do this. As will a vacuum.

mollwollfumble said:

mollwollfumble said:

Unfortunately, PAH molecules like anthracene and naphthalene relatively easily produced abiologically. Heat any carbon containing compound in a vacuum.

But in Enceladus case, where did the heat come from? And it’s fair to assume that these were produced subsurface, where there’s no vacuum.

For carbonaceous meteorites, the presence of PAH molecules like anthracene and naphthalene is much easier to understand.

eg. “Polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs) in C1 and C2 Carbonaceous Chondrites appear to be the product of a high-temperature synthesis. This observation counters a prevailing view that PAHs in meteorites are a thermal alteration product of preexisting aliphatic compounds, which in turn required the presence of low-temperature mineral phases such as magnetite and hydrated phyllosilicates for their formation.”

There is another way to make anthracene, one that is somewhat more promising. Heat a carbohydrate like sugar in an aqueous environment. Sugar would be a good sign of life.

The key to making anthracene is to have some way to remove the hydrogen, a water environment with an excess of oxygen over hydrogen will do this. As will a vacuum.

So the water of Endeladus would have to be alkaline, not acid or neutral, to mop up any stray hydrogen atoms. What non-organic element, when added to neutral water, makes that water alkaline?

mollwollfumble said:

mollwollfumble said:

mollwollfumble said:

Unfortunately, PAH molecules like anthracene and naphthalene relatively easily produced abiologically. Heat any carbon containing compound in a vacuum.

But in Enceladus case, where did the heat come from? And it’s fair to assume that these were produced subsurface, where there’s no vacuum.

For carbonaceous meteorites, the presence of PAH molecules like anthracene and naphthalene is much easier to understand.

eg. “Polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs) in C1 and C2 Carbonaceous Chondrites appear to be the product of a high-temperature synthesis. This observation counters a prevailing view that PAHs in meteorites are a thermal alteration product of preexisting aliphatic compounds, which in turn required the presence of low-temperature mineral phases such as magnetite and hydrated phyllosilicates for their formation.”

There is another way to make anthracene, one that is somewhat more promising. Heat a carbohydrate like sugar in an aqueous environment. Sugar would be a good sign of life.

The key to making anthracene is to have some way to remove the hydrogen, a water environment with an excess of oxygen over hydrogen will do this. As will a vacuum.

So the water of Endeladus would have to be alkaline, not acid or neutral, to mop up any stray hydrogen atoms. What non-organic element, when added to neutral water, makes that water alkaline?

Does it have to be non organic (its the most likely scenario) but organic alkaline would be much more interesting