What sort of things would life education cover ?

Does life education get taught in schools?

Tau.Neutrino said:

What sort of things would life education cover ?

Does life education get taught in schools?

Tax returns, filling out of government forms, not being a social media victim, atheism and logical thinking

Cymek said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

What sort of things would life education cover ?

Does life education get taught in schools?

Tax returns, filling out of government forms, not being a social media victim, atheism and logical thinking

Home maintenance, changing the tyres, making things, symptoms of mental illness, addiction and how to avoid it, saving money, self defence, finding a partner, hospitals and how to avoid them.

mollwollfumble said:

Cymek said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

What sort of things would life education cover ?

Does life education get taught in schools?

Tax returns, filling out of government forms, not being a social media victim, atheism and logical thinking

Home maintenance, changing the tyres, making things, symptoms of mental illness, addiction and how to avoid it, saving money, self defence, finding a partner, hospitals and how to avoid them.

Or even having a partner isn’t essential and don’t become obsessed by it, self reliance, for males learn how to run a house, it isn’t hard

Sounds like parenting…

The ancient Romans had the Trivium and Quadrivium.

Grammar, Logic, Rhetoric

Arithmetic, Geometry, Music, Astronomy

mollwollfumble thinks Rhetoric and Logic would come in handy.

schools teach kids how to sit in rows/cubicles, eat lunch at a certain time, regulate toilet breaks and go home when they are told to. All valuable life skills for an office worker.

poikilotherm said:

Sounds like parenting…

Quite similar yes

Never stop learning try it every day if you can.
Question authority, rules, tradition, etc often used to maintain the status quo, don’t be dumb about it though and just become a criminal

Arts said:

schools teach kids how to sit in rows/cubicles, eat lunch at a certain time, regulate toilet breaks and go home when they are told to. All valuable life skills for an office worker.

ipads teach them how to stare and sit still.

Always use sunscreen

Do the hard moral thinking for yourself, DON’T let religion tell you what is wrong or right

Cymek said:

Always use sunscreen

..and a condom

Ian said:

Cymek said:

Always use sunscreen

..and a condom

Yes

Ian said:

Cymek said:

Always use sunscreen

..and a condom

at the same time?

Ian said:

Cymek said:

Always use sunscreen

..and a condom

Sheesh, sex ed has changed since I was a teen.

Learning from past experience, not buying the same thing over and over that you know will break down.
Putting the right fuel in your vehicle.
The benefits of a six pack and a cooked chook.
That sort of thing.

The lesson we learn from Santa Claus is “pretending to believe a lie can be financially rewarding”.

and a cooked chook.
—

And having the power to reheat it any time that a hot reheated chook craving may strike.

Peak Warming Man said:

Putting the right fuel in your vehicle.

So you don’t use the lefty unleaded crap?

Peak Warming Man said:

Learning from past experience, not buying the same thing over and over that you know will break down.
Putting the right fuel in your vehicle.
The benefits of a six pack and a cooked chook.
That sort of thing.

Gold.

Peak Warming Man said:

Learning from past experience, not buying the same thing over and over that you know will break down.
Putting the right fuel in your vehicle.
The benefits of a six pack and a cooked chook.
That sort of thing.

Could be covered in one afternoon :)

Ian said:

Cymek said:

Always use sunscreen

..and a condom

Condoms should be used on every conceivable occasion.

btm said:

Ian said:

Cymek said:

Always use sunscreen

..and a condom

Condoms should be used on every conceivable occasion.

what about going to the podiatrist?

life ed’ hey

how’s that start, well there are the mind tools you’re gifted with courtesy quite a few million years of evolution, nobody can say they’re not tested. Over the last ~300,000+ years they haven’t altered much.

if the DNA recombination goes alright, and everything goes well in the womb, then there is the traversal of the birth canal, following that if you get plenty of oxygen and the whole thing’s functioning properly your chances of survival are looking alright, so long as infection doesn’t kill you.

at some point there’s breast feeding, and it can be said that this is where life education starts.

yes, that early.

later there will be talking and crawling, then walking, and the little learning machines are well on their way.

btm said:

Ian said:

Cymek said:

Always use sunscreen

..and a condom

Condoms should be used on every conceivable occasion.

LOL

Ian said:

:)

poikilotherm said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Putting the right fuel in your vehicle.

So you don’t use the lefty unleaded crap?

My car can only run on 93% unleaded, according to the manual and the label on the fuel filling hole.

If put the right fuel in I’d have to import it from America.

poikilotherm said:

Arts said:

schools teach kids how to sit in rows/cubicles, eat lunch at a certain time, regulate toilet breaks and go home when they are told to. All valuable life skills for an office worker.

ipads teach them how to stare and sit still.

it’s a perfect world!

mollwollfumble said:

poikilotherm said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Putting the right fuel in your vehicle.

So you don’t use the lefty unleaded crap?

My car can only run on 93% unleaded, according to the manual and the label on the fuel filling hole.

If put the right fuel in I’d have to import it from America.

What?

What’s the other 7% supposed to be? Ethanol?

Are you sure it’s not 93 RON?

Michael V said:

mollwollfumble said:

poikilotherm said:

So you don’t use the lefty unleaded crap?

My car can only run on 93% unleaded, according to the manual and the label on the fuel filling hole.

If put the right fuel in I’d have to import it from America.

What?

What’s the other 7% supposed to be? Ethanol?

Are you sure it’s not 93 RON?

I must have % on the brain. I’m supposed to be calculating relative humidities right now.

Was just meaning to point out that right fuel is not a life education skill.

mollwollfumble said:

Michael V said:

mollwollfumble said:

My car can only run on 93% unleaded, according to the manual and the label on the fuel filling hole.

If put the right fuel in I’d have to import it from America.

What?

What’s the other 7% supposed to be? Ethanol?

Are you sure it’s not 93 RON?

I must have % on the brain. I’m supposed to be calculating relative humidities right now.

Family get me hot under the collar too

mollwollfumble said:

Michael V said:

mollwollfumble said:

My car can only run on 93% unleaded, according to the manual and the label on the fuel filling hole.

If put the right fuel in I’d have to import it from America.

What?

What’s the other 7% supposed to be? Ethanol?

Are you sure it’s not 93 RON?

I must have % on the brain. I’m supposed to be calculating relative humidities right now.

Was just meaning to point out that right fuel is not a life education skill.

Knowing not to put diesel fuel in a petrol engine’s fuel tank or vice-versa is something important. PWM learnt this relatively recently, I believe.

mollwollfumble said:

I’m supposed to be calculating relative humidities right now.

Life education taught me that Einstein had a theory about that.

Assembling flat-pack furniture.
Folding a fitted sheet

Woodie said:

mollwollfumble said:

I’m supposed to be calculating relative humidities right now.

Life education taught me that Einstein had a theory about that.

I’ll bet his general theory wasn’t so special after all.

mollwollfumble said:

Michael V said:

mollwollfumble said:

My car can only run on 93% unleaded, according to the manual and the label on the fuel filling hole.

If put the right fuel in I’d have to import it from America.

What?

What’s the other 7% supposed to be? Ethanol?

Are you sure it’s not 93 RON?

I must have % on the brain. I’m supposed to be calculating relative humidities right now.

Was just meaning to point out that right fuel is not a life education skill.

I reckon knowing to not put unleaded into a diesel tank is pretty important

I can’t believe fiVe beat me to it

party_pants said:

Assembling flat-pack furniture.
Folding a fitted sheet

you just roll them up into a ball don’t you?

Arts said:

party_pants said:

Assembling flat-pack furniture.
Folding a fitted sheet

you just roll them up into a ball don’t you?

Me personally? No, I have taken to learning how to fold them. I’m not that good at it yet, but they take up much less space when folded.

party_pants said:

Arts said:

party_pants said:

Assembling flat-pack furniture.
Folding a fitted sheet

you just roll them up into a ball don’t you?

Me personally? No, I have taken to learning how to fold them. I’m not that good at it yet, but they take up much less space when folded.

I only have two per bed.. so it’s really only one in storage at a time.. and each one goes into a different cupboard.. so.. proper folding doesn’t bother me…

Arts said:

I can’t believe fiVe beat me to it

:)

party_pants said:

Arts said:

party_pants said:

Assembling flat-pack furniture.
Folding a fitted sheet

you just roll them up into a ball don’t you?

Me personally? No, I have taken to learning how to fold them. I’m not that good at it yet, but they take up much less space when folded.

Yes, yes they do.

Arts said:

party_pants said:

Arts said:

you just roll them up into a ball don’t you?

Me personally? No, I have taken to learning how to fold them. I’m not that good at it yet, but they take up much less space when folded.

I only have two per bed.. so it’s really only one in storage at a time.. and each one goes into a different cupboard.. so.. proper folding doesn’t bother me…

Me too, and I have only two beds. So I don’t get much practice. But it is just another little skill I have learned.

Another skill to add to the list – everyone should know how to use a battery drill for holes or screws.

Michael V said:

party_pants said:

Arts said:

you just roll them up into a ball don’t you?

Me personally? No, I have taken to learning how to fold them. I’m not that good at it yet, but they take up much less space when folded.

Yes, yes they do.

just put an encyclopedia on it

party_pants said:

Arts said:

party_pants said:

Me personally? No, I have taken to learning how to fold them. I’m not that good at it yet, but they take up much less space when folded.

I only have two per bed.. so it’s really only one in storage at a time.. and each one goes into a different cupboard.. so.. proper folding doesn’t bother me…

Me too, and I have only two beds. So I don’t get much practice. But it is just another little skill I have learned.

Another skill to add to the list – everyone should know how to use a battery drill for holes or screws.

life skills and skills to have are two different things.. I mean, not knowing how to fold a fitted sheet isn’t going to impact you as much as not knowing the type of fuel your car takes, or not knowing how to fill out a form for a loan application/job/dole (what do they even call it these days?) etc….

party_pants said:

Arts said:

party_pants said:

Assembling flat-pack furniture.
Folding a fitted sheet

you just roll them up into a ball don’t you?

Me personally? No, I have taken to learning how to fold them. I’m not that good at it yet, but they take up much less space when folded.

I learnt that too. And they are a lot neater and less crinkled when you use them. Occasionally I fold a single one….they are a lot smaller than queen size ones!

Arts said:

party_pants said:

Arts said:

I only have two per bed.. so it’s really only one in storage at a time.. and each one goes into a different cupboard.. so.. proper folding doesn’t bother me…

Me too, and I have only two beds. So I don’t get much practice. But it is just another little skill I have learned.

Another skill to add to the list – everyone should know how to use a battery drill for holes or screws.

life skills and skills to have are two different things.. I mean, not knowing how to fold a fitted sheet isn’t going to impact you as much as not knowing the type of fuel your car takes, or not knowing how to fill out a form for a loan application/job/dole (what do they even call it these days?) etc….

I think many of the skills listed here are something that could be taught in under 10 minutes.

I think PWM was taking the piss anyway, with his little list. I think, I might be wrong.

I’m not dissing your skills.. I’m not dissing it at all, if having neat cupboards are your thing and it makes you happy, then knock yourself out, fold like there’s no tomorrow.. .. I just don’t agree that they are essential ‘life skills’.. life education type skills… if you get my drift

to me life skills are those that will help you go forward in life.. get a job, keep it, not have to spend money on avoidable things, live within your means (note: I don’t even necessarily thing that being rich is a goal of life skills, but being able to live within what you have is) socializing plays a small role.. not necessarily being a social butterfly, but being able to work with cooperatively others.. negotiations and knowing how to lose sometimes.

Arts said:

… negotiations and knowing how to lose sometimes.

s’if.

ChrispenEvan said:

Arts said:

… negotiations and knowing how to lose sometimes.

s’if.

well, we aren’t talking about the anomaly that is this forum’s members.. we are all the best drivers, scientists and always right even in the face of facts to the contrary… it’s hardly my problem if the facts haven’t caught up yet, is it?

Arts said:

I’m not dissing your skills.. I’m not dissing it at all, if having neat cupboards are your thing and it makes you happy, then knock yourself out, fold like there’s no tomorrow.. .. I just don’t agree that they are essential ‘life skills’.. life education type skills… if you get my drift

to me life skills are those that will help you go forward in life.. get a job, keep it, not have to spend money on avoidable things, live within your means (note: I don’t even necessarily thing that being rich is a goal of life skills, but being able to live within what you have is) socializing plays a small role.. not necessarily being a social butterfly, but being able to work with cooperatively others.. negotiations and knowing how to lose sometimes.

>>not have to spend money on avoidable things, <<

Like voluntary speeding taxes.

Arts said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Arts said:

… negotiations and knowing how to lose sometimes.

s’if.

well, we aren’t talking about the anomaly that is this forum’s members.. we are all the best drivers, scientists and always right even in the face of facts to the contrary… it’s hardly my problem if the facts haven’t caught up yet, is it?

It’s hardly our fault if we are all early adopters. (Except me. I’m a Selective Luddite)

party_pants said:

Arts said:

party_pants said:

Me too, and I have only two beds. So I don’t get much practice. But it is just another little skill I have learned.

Another skill to add to the list – everyone should know how to use a battery drill for holes or screws.

life skills and skills to have are two different things.. I mean, not knowing how to fold a fitted sheet isn’t going to impact you as much as not knowing the type of fuel your car takes, or not knowing how to fill out a form for a loan application/job/dole (what do they even call it these days?) etc….

I think many of the skills listed here are something that could be taught in under 10 minutes.

I think PWM was taking the piss anyway, with his little list. I think, I might be wrong.

Ah, that clears things up.

I was thinking that learning life skills could be taught in … about a year if it all. Skills like “making things”. Home maintenance would be a bit easier. Even logic could take quite a few weeks to learn, because there are literally dozens of pitfalls for the unwary. And rhetoric. And recognising symptoms of mental illness. Even “staying out of hospital” couldn’t be taught in under 10 minutes. Addiction and its avoidance would take several days, some people require years.

“Filling in forms” in 10 minutes perhaps, but cripes I have to learn this anew every tax statement and employment application. And now I’m struggling trying to fill in an “instructions to executors” section of my will form.

What does my local community centre teach in regards to life skills, I’ll just look it up. http://www.chelt.com.au/life-skills.html

• Improve Reading and Writing. Improve your literacy and numeracy.
• Literacy for Living. A life education program for adults with a mild intellectual disability covering literacy, numeracy and social interaction.
• Money handling. Class content will include budgeting and saving, denominations, making change and comparing prices.

Employment related courses include

• Food service. Terminology, occupational health and safety, customer service and engagement skills.
• Retail. Terminology, occupational health and safety, customer service and engagement skills.

Computer related courses include

• Ipads, Tablets and More. Learn how to use your iPad, Android tablet or phone. Discover the world of Facebook, Skype and Pinterest.
• Computers. Windows icons and the Start Menu, Word, file management and USB stick.
• Computers. Word, PowerPoint and Excel, computer terminology, software, file management, email, internet access and searching.

PS. I note that the community centre puts “Cooking” under “Recreation” not under “Life Skills”.

I heard recently that children are not taught cursive writing in school any more.

mollwollfumble said:

I heard recently that children are not taught cursive writing in school any more.

it’s a weird sort of part cursive part printing style.. but I am ok with that.. they just need to have the fine motor skills to write, but the future is about computers and keyboards…. almost all of them will end up in a job where they type.. so learning grammar and communication through language is more appropriate than being able to script beautifully.

I would question filling out forms too.

These days just about everything is going online. Even selecting your suburb and postcode is forced by way of a dropbox. Lots of questions are designed as selections from a list.

Tau.Neutrino said:

What sort of things would life education cover ?

Does life education get taught in schools?

How to apply for Newstart Allowance.

KJW said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

What sort of things would life education cover ?

Does life education get taught in schools?

How to apply for Newstart Allowance.

Case in point. I think it needs to be done online via the MyGov website.

party_pants said:

Arts said:

party_pants said:

Me too, and I have only two beds. So I don’t get much practice. But it is just another little skill I have learned.

Another skill to add to the list – everyone should know how to use a battery drill for holes or screws.

life skills and skills to have are two different things.. I mean, not knowing how to fold a fitted sheet isn’t going to impact you as much as not knowing the type of fuel your car takes, or not knowing how to fill out a form for a loan application/job/dole (what do they even call it these days?) etc….

I think many of the skills listed here are something that could be taught in under 10 minutes.

I think PWM was taking the piss anyway, with his little list. I think, I might be wrong.

PWM?

Taking the piss?

Surely not?

How to cheat on your taxes and get away with it.

btm said:

How to cheat on your taxes and get away with it.

btm wins

buffy said:

Arts said:

ChrispenEvan said:

s’if.

well, we aren’t talking about the anomaly that is this forum’s members.. we are all the best drivers, scientists and always right even in the face of facts to the contrary… it’s hardly my problem if the facts haven’t caught up yet, is it?

It’s hardly our fault if we are all early adopters. (Except me. I’m a Selective Luddite)

Selective Luddite – I like that.

I think mobile phones are evil, and won’t use them unless actually forced to by my bank or hardware store.
I actually still use an “Exercise book” made of real paper to take notes.
I’m not an early adopter of political policies, clothing styles, fidget spinners, computer technology.
My TV is still a CRT, and the remote for it hasn’t worked for years.
I still haven’t accepted QWERTY, I use an ABCDE keyboard.
I still do all serious programming in the 1977 vintage of FORTRAN, with only a few features from 1990.
Until a few years ago I carried a pocket calculator wherever I went.
I prefer pre-1900 classical music.
I won’t eat any food that has an advertisement.
I’m still on Windows 7 and 32 bit.
I’ve never played an “online game” or used the cloud.
I don’t netflix, skype, or buy music or games off the internet.

I think that categorises me as a selective Luddite.

Unfortunately, I seem to have forgotten how to read books for pleasure. :-(

A while ago, thinking about what I was or wasn’t taught at school, it occurred to me that I wasn’t taught that I need a licence to drive a car. Somehow, I managed to come across that piece of knowledge, but what if I hadn’t? My point is that being a law-abiding citizen rests on assumptions if schools do not explicitly teach how to be a law-abiding citizen. But note that a person might not even think to ask if there are any legal considerations to consider when for example starting a business. So the mere availability of lawyers isn’t enough if a person isn’t aware that they might be necessary. And because ignorance of the law is not a defence against breaking the law, I think our education system should do a better job of protecting us against being ignorant of the law.

party_pants said:

I would question filling out forms too.

These days just about everything is going online. Even selecting your suburb and postcode is forced by way of a dropbox. Lots of questions are designed as selections from a list.

the electrified species, you’re online, on the grid, the network.

fucken Borg, mate

KJW said:

A while ago, thinking about what I was or wasn’t taught at school, it occurred to me that I wasn’t taught that I need a licence to drive a car. Somehow, I managed to come across that piece of knowledge, but what if I hadn’t? My point is that being a law-abiding citizen rests on assumptions if schools do not explicitly teach how to be a law-abiding citizen. But note that a person might not even think to ask if there are any legal considerations to consider when for example starting a business. So the mere availability of lawyers isn’t enough if a person isn’t aware that they might be necessary. And because ignorance of the law is not a defence against breaking the law, I think our education system should do a better job of protecting us against being ignorant of the law.

Yeah. If we had an ducation system that concentrated solely on providing education.

KJW said:

A while ago, thinking about what I was or wasn’t taught at school, it occurred to me that I wasn’t taught that I need a licence to drive a car. Somehow, I managed to come across that piece of knowledge, but what if I hadn’t? My point is that being a law-abiding citizen rests on assumptions if schools do not explicitly teach how to be a law-abiding citizen. But note that a person might not even think to ask if there are any legal considerations to consider when for example starting a business. So the mere availability of lawyers isn’t enough if a person isn’t aware that they might be necessary. And because ignorance of the law is not a defence against breaking the law, I think our education system should do a better job of protecting us against being ignorant of the law.

Knowledge of the law. An excellent one.

I’m not afraid of embracing technology.

Arts said:

I’m not afraid of embracing technology.

Depends. Most of the tech on offer is complete unnecessary shyte.

mollwollfumble said:

buffy said:

Arts said:

well, we aren’t talking about the anomaly that is this forum’s members.. we are all the best drivers, scientists and always right even in the face of facts to the contrary… it’s hardly my problem if the facts haven’t caught up yet, is it?

It’s hardly our fault if we are all early adopters. (Except me. I’m a Selective Luddite)

Selective Luddite – I like that.

I think mobile phones are evil, and won’t use them unless actually forced to by my bank or hardware store.
I actually still use an “Exercise book” made of real paper to take notes.
I’m not an early adopter of political policies, clothing styles, fidget spinners, computer technology.
My TV is still a CRT, and the remote for it hasn’t worked for years.
I still haven’t accepted QWERTY, I use an ABCDE keyboard.
I still do all serious programming in the 1977 vintage of FORTRAN, with only a few features from 1990.
Until a few years ago I carried a pocket calculator wherever I went.
I prefer pre-1900 classical music.
I won’t eat any food that has an advertisement.
I’m still on Windows 7 and 32 bit.
I’ve never played an “online game” or used the cloud.
I don’t netflix, skype, or buy music or games off the internet.

I think that categorises me as a selective Luddite.

Unfortunately, I seem to have forgotten how to read books for pleasure. :-(

I thought I was a bit of a selective Luddite. But it seems not.

Arts said:

I’m not afraid of embracing technology.

it’s a mutual thing, i’m sure it’s embracing you too.

wonder what our ancestors called it, like a new spear head, or whatever.

probably had a grunt for it I suppose, something shorter than technology.

I mumbling the word, trying to get an idea.

KJW said:

A while ago, thinking about what I was or wasn’t taught at school, it occurred to me that I wasn’t taught that I need a licence to drive a car. Somehow, I managed to come across that piece of knowledge, but what if I hadn’t? My point is that being a law-abiding citizen rests on assumptions if schools do not explicitly teach how to be a law-abiding citizen. But note that a person might not even think to ask if there are any legal considerations to consider when for example starting a business. So the mere availability of lawyers isn’t enough if a person isn’t aware that they might be necessary. And because ignorance of the law is not a defence against breaking the law, I think our education system should do a better job of protecting us against being ignorant of the law.

Were all they other kids as ignorant. You will be asking the teachers to wipe their bums next.

Arts said:

I’m not afraid of embracing technology.

Your idiosyncrasy quotient is lacking.

KJW said:

A while ago, thinking about what I was or wasn’t taught at school, it occurred to me that I wasn’t taught that I need a licence to drive a car. Somehow, I managed to come across that piece of knowledge, but what if I hadn’t? My point is that being a law-abiding citizen rests on assumptions if schools do not explicitly teach how to be a law-abiding citizen. But note that a person might not even think to ask if there are any legal considerations to consider when for example starting a business. So the mere availability of lawyers isn’t enough if a person isn’t aware that they might be necessary. And because ignorance of the law is not a defence against breaking the law, I think our education system should do a better job of protecting us against being ignorant of the law.

>…/cut/…it occurred to me that I wasn’t taught that I need a licence to drive a car…/cut/…

going from pencil to biro in grade 3, getting your biro license, is not a bad introduction to the idea of license, and licensing.

it’s an interesting concept license, covers quite some territory. If you were only acquainted with the definition as if it were something issued from external, that’d be a type of poverty. Maybe it happens.

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects!

sibeen said:

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects!

and tell a good joke.

sibeen said:

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects!

Well I wouldn’t give all specialisation to insects but otherwise, yep.

ChrispenEvan said:

sibeen said:

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects!

and tell a good joke.

or at least try.

sibeen said:

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects!

a diaper? diaper? jesus fuck Shebs…

Arts said:

sibeen said:

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects!

a diaper? diaper? jesus fuck Shebs…

;)

transition said:

KJW said:

A while ago, thinking about what I was or wasn’t taught at school, it occurred to me that I wasn’t taught that I need a licence to drive a car. Somehow, I managed to come across that piece of knowledge, but what if I hadn’t? My point is that being a law-abiding citizen rests on assumptions if schools do not explicitly teach how to be a law-abiding citizen. But note that a person might not even think to ask if there are any legal considerations to consider when for example starting a business. So the mere availability of lawyers isn’t enough if a person isn’t aware that they might be necessary. And because ignorance of the law is not a defence against breaking the law, I think our education system should do a better job of protecting us against being ignorant of the law.

>…/cut/…it occurred to me that I wasn’t taught that I need a licence to drive a car…/cut/…

going from pencil to biro in grade 3, getting your biro license, is not a bad introduction to the idea of license, and licensing.

it’s an interesting concept license, covers quite some territory. If you were only acquainted with the definition as if it were something issued from external, that’d be a type of poverty. Maybe it happens.

Come to think of it, just about any efforts of justification in some way involve license. So that covers a lot of reasoning.

The law (in free countries) promotes (responsible) self-licensing of behaviors (it can be said), within the law, a space for. That our culture promotes differentiated or individuated personalities and behaviors is to do with license, something analogous anyway.

Fairly clearly there’s a concept that preceded or precedes the other formal thing.

Same of many things. The concept of trespass for example must have preceded the idea of trespassing on property.

transition said:

The concept of trespass for example must have preceded the idea of trespassing on property.

Intellectual property?

transition said:

transition said:

KJW said:

A while ago, thinking about what I was or wasn’t taught at school, it occurred to me that I wasn’t taught that I need a licence to drive a car. Somehow, I managed to come across that piece of knowledge, but what if I hadn’t? My point is that being a law-abiding citizen rests on assumptions if schools do not explicitly teach how to be a law-abiding citizen. But note that a person might not even think to ask if there are any legal considerations to consider when for example starting a business. So the mere availability of lawyers isn’t enough if a person isn’t aware that they might be necessary. And because ignorance of the law is not a defence against breaking the law, I think our education system should do a better job of protecting us against being ignorant of the law.

>…/cut/…it occurred to me that I wasn’t taught that I need a licence to drive a car…/cut/…

going from pencil to biro in grade 3, getting your biro license, is not a bad introduction to the idea of license, and licensing.

it’s an interesting concept license, covers quite some territory. If you were only acquainted with the definition as if it were something issued from external, that’d be a type of poverty. Maybe it happens.

Come to think of it, just about any efforts of justification in some way involve license. So that covers a lot of reasoning.

The law (in free countries) promotes (responsible) self-licensing of behaviors (it can be said), within the law, a space for. That our culture promotes differentiated or individuated personalities and behaviors is to do with license, something analogous anyway.

Fairly clearly there’s a concept that preceded or precedes the other formal thing.

Same of many things. The concept of trespass for example must have preceded the idea of trespassing on property.

every license is a license to kill, or at least to maim.

Hunting license – in charge of a deadly weapon
Gun license – ditto
Drivers license – ditto
Law license – ditto
Liquor license – ditto
Medical license – ditto
Pilots license – ditto
Marriage license – well, sometimes

mollwollfumble said:

transition said:

transition said:

>…/cut/…it occurred to me that I wasn’t taught that I need a licence to drive a car…/cut/…

going from pencil to biro in grade 3, getting your biro license, is not a bad introduction to the idea of license, and licensing.

it’s an interesting concept license, covers quite some territory. If you were only acquainted with the definition as if it were something issued from external, that’d be a type of poverty. Maybe it happens.

Come to think of it, just about any efforts of justification in some way involve license. So that covers a lot of reasoning.

The law (in free countries) promotes (responsible) self-licensing of behaviors (it can be said), within the law, a space for. That our culture promotes differentiated or individuated personalities and behaviors is to do with license, something analogous anyway.

Fairly clearly there’s a concept that preceded or precedes the other formal thing.

Same of many things. The concept of trespass for example must have preceded the idea of trespassing on property.

every license is a license to kill, or at least to maim.

Hunting license – in charge of a deadly weapon
Gun license – ditto
Drivers license – ditto
Law license – ditto
Liquor license – ditto
Medical license – ditto
Pilots license – ditto
Marriage license – well, sometimes

the marriage one is a certificate.. you don’t need to pass any tests to get married. and a pen license is not really killing anything but the language you use to write it in.. and a 007 license is… oh wait that one is actually a license to kill

sibeen said:

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects!

You really think that?

I tend to take the opposing view. I frequently and fervently wished that I had been allowed to specialise in primary school. It isn’t just gymnasts who should be allowed to specialise early.

Generalism should only come with age.

Divine Angel said:

No, no, no……!!
That dorky giraffe in a caravan on school property!

Since we’re talking “life education”, this is relevent.

Psychotherapist Creates Brutally Honest Self-Help ‘Books’ Inspired By His Patients

Change is hard, improvements happen unevenly, involve many steps and take a lot of time. Nothing even remotely close to what the self-help reads are preaching. Luckily, Johan Deckmann has something that’s way better. By day, Deckmann analyzes the human behavior; by night, he writes down his observations as titles for fictional self-help publications.

I meet many people who suffer from a circumstance that they themselves have created but they choose not to take action. It’s tragicomic that underneath our frustration and self-slavery lies this beautiful opportunity.

For example:

mollwollfumble said:

sibeen said:

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects!

You really think that?

I tend to take the opposing view. I frequently and fervently wished that I had been allowed to specialise in primary school. It isn’t just gymnasts who should be allowed to specialise early.

Generalism should only come with age.

What would have been your preferred specialisation in primary school?

mollwollfumble said:

sibeen said:

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects!

You really think that?

I tend to take the opposing view. I frequently and fervently wished that I had been allowed to specialise in primary school. It isn’t just gymnasts who should be allowed to specialise early.

Generalism should only come with age.

It’s a verbatim quote from a well-known (but IMHO inferior) science fiction writer.

btm said:

mollwollfumble said:

sibeen said:

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects!

You really think that?

I tend to take the opposing view. I frequently and fervently wished that I had been allowed to specialise in primary school. It isn’t just gymnasts who should be allowed to specialise early.

Generalism should only come with age.

It’s a verbatim quote from a well-known (but IMHO inferior) science fiction writer.

Who? Save me looking it up. Please.

btm said:

mollwollfumble said:

sibeen said:

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects!

You really think that?

I tend to take the opposing view. I frequently and fervently wished that I had been allowed to specialise in primary school. It isn’t just gymnasts who should be allowed to specialise early.

Generalism should only come with age.

It’s a verbatim quote from a well-known (but IMHO inferior) science fiction writer.

Ray Bradbury strikes again?

buffy said:

btm said:

mollwollfumble said:

You really think that?

I tend to take the opposing view. I frequently and fervently wished that I had been allowed to specialise in primary school. It isn’t just gymnasts who should be allowed to specialise early.

Generalism should only come with age.

It’s a verbatim quote from a well-known (but IMHO inferior) science fiction writer.

Who? Save me looking it up. Please.

Robert A. Heinlein.

btm said:

buffy said:

btm said:

It’s a verbatim quote from a well-known (but IMHO inferior) science fiction writer.

Who? Save me looking it up. Please.

Robert A. Heinlein.

Jesus, I thought everyone knew that, it’s from the notebook of Lazarus Long.

btm said:

buffy said:

btm said:

It’s a verbatim quote from a well-known (but IMHO inferior) science fiction writer.

Who? Save me looking it up. Please.

Robert A. Heinlein.

Oh. One I haven’t read.

buffy said:

btm said:

buffy said:

Who? Save me looking it up. Please.

Robert A. Heinlein.

Oh. One I haven’t read.

It’s in a book called Time Enough for Love. Don’t bother reading it; it’s pretty crap.

btm said:

buffy said:

btm said:

Robert A. Heinlein.

Oh. One I haven’t read.

It’s in a book called Time Enough for Love. Don’t bother reading it; it’s pretty crap.

YOU WASH YOUR MOUTH OUT!

roughbarked said:

transition said:

The concept of trespass for example must have preceded the idea of trespassing on property.

Intellectual property?

anything imposing, threatening, you know warnings from a barking gheko, you see such things across other species.

privacy’s related, lots of creatures maintain an operating space, which is related territorial behaviors.

examples are many, over different scales.

individuals (of humans, here) limit the impositions of groups (or excessively powerful individuals) on individuals (limit the power over), demonstrated in ideas that approximate an egalitarian ethic.

the idea of trespass gets a mention in the bible too as recall.

transition said:

roughbarked said:

transition said:

The concept of trespass for example must have preceded the idea of trespassing on property.

Intellectual property?

anything imposing, threatening, you know warnings from a barking gheko, you see such things across other species.

privacy’s related, lots of creatures maintain an operating space, which is related territorial behaviors.

examples are many, over different scales.

individuals (of humans, here) limit the impositions of groups (or excessively powerful individuals) on individuals (limit the power over), demonstrated in ideas that approximate an egalitarian ethic.

the idea of trespass gets a mention in the bible too as recall.

you know (of humans) there’s mischievous intrigue, wandering intrigue, inclined by wandering comparison, commonly motivated by envy and jealousy, which can probably be said be universal across the species. This sort of stuff is warned about in the bible, but the imperfections of the/a thinking machine, the paradoxes were well known by our ancestors, going back tens of thousands of years.

Death and taxes?

What various occupations actually do? Long periods of boredom punctuated by terror seems to describe many occupations.

The starting point for teaching logic is:

Robert Thouless “Straight and crooked thinking”. It contains 38 logical fallacies to avoid.

But even then, it doesn’t cover them all. It misses:

• The texas sharpshooter problem
• Confirmation bias
• Cherry picking data. eg. a doubling over 10 years can be identical to a fall over 5 years.
• Synonyms with slightly different connotations: he couldn’t talk about vs he wouldn’t talk about vs he refused to talk about vs he didn’t talk about.

mollwollfumble said:

The starting point for teaching logic is:

Robert Thouless “Straight and crooked thinking”. It contains 38 logical fallacies to avoid.

But even then, it doesn’t cover them all. It misses:

• The texas sharpshooter problem
• Confirmation bias
• Cherry picking data. eg. a doubling over 10 years can be identical to a fall over 5 years.
• Synonyms with slightly different connotations: he couldn’t talk about vs he wouldn’t talk about vs he refused to talk about vs he didn’t talk about.
  

Oops, it does cover cherry picking data, and misuse of synonyms.

mollwollfumble said:

Death and taxes?

What various occupations actually do? Long periods of boredom punctuated by terror seems to describe many occupations.

i’d guess most people work for $$$, it’s highly convertible, and to do that they need instrumental desires (another type of conversion). Even if you detest work, it’s I want to go to work to earn the money to buy a new car, sort of thing.

of boredom, related anyway, you can see the money reward as payment for the job displacing other possibilities, as you could be doing something else.

transition said:

mollwollfumble said:

Death and taxes?

What various occupations actually do? Long periods of boredom punctuated by terror seems to describe many occupations.

i’d guess most people work for $$$, it’s highly convertible, and to do that they need instrumental desires (another type of conversion). Even if you detest work, it’s I want to go to work to earn the money to buy a new car, sort of thing.

of boredom, related anyway, you can see the money reward as payment for the job displacing other possibilities, as you could be doing something else.

I go to work because I enjoy it. Nice to be useful

transition said:

mollwollfumble said:

Death and taxes?

What various occupations actually do? Long periods of boredom punctuated by terror seems to describe many occupations.

i’d guess most people work for $$$, it’s highly convertible, and to do that they need instrumental desires (another type of conversion). Even if you detest work, it’s I want to go to work to earn the money to buy a new car, sort of thing.

of boredom, related anyway, you can see the money reward as payment for the job displacing other possibilities, as you could be doing something else.

There’s a TV ad for some employment agency that asks ‘do you love the job you’re doing?’ (i.e. is it the job of your dreams).

Well, no. That’s why i insist on being paid for it on a regular basis. In return for devoting my time to something that i’d rather not be doing, i want money. If my employers ever got the idea that i was doing it because i love it, they’d undoubtedly try to pay me less.

Stumpy_seahorse said:

transition said:

mollwollfumble said:

Death and taxes?

What various occupations actually do? Long periods of boredom punctuated by terror seems to describe many occupations.

i’d guess most people work for $$$, it’s highly convertible, and to do that they need instrumental desires (another type of conversion). Even if you detest work, it’s I want to go to work to earn the money to buy a new car, sort of thing.

of boredom, related anyway, you can see the money reward as payment for the job displacing other possibilities, as you could be doing something else.

I go to work because I enjoy it. Nice to be useful

Same here.

Still, it’s nice to be paid as well.

captain_spalding said:

transition said:

mollwollfumble said:

Death and taxes?

What various occupations actually do? Long periods of boredom punctuated by terror seems to describe many occupations.

i’d guess most people work for $$$, it’s highly convertible, and to do that they need instrumental desires (another type of conversion). Even if you detest work, it’s I want to go to work to earn the money to buy a new car, sort of thing.

of boredom, related anyway, you can see the money reward as payment for the job displacing other possibilities, as you could be doing something else.

There’s a TV ad for some employment agency that asks ‘do you love the job you’re doing?’ (i.e. is it the job of your dreams).

Well, no. That’s why i insist on being paid for it on a regular basis. In return for devoting my time to something that i’d rather not be doing, i want money. If my employers ever got the idea that i was doing it because i love it, they’d undoubtedly try to pay me less.

Would they?

I think most employers who pay more than the legal minimum do so because they want to keep their employees working for them, rather than to make up for the lack of job satisfaction.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Stumpy_seahorse said:

transition said:

i’d guess most people work for $$$, it’s highly convertible, and to do that they need instrumental desires (another type of conversion). Even if you detest work, it’s I want to go to work to earn the money to buy a new car, sort of thing.

of boredom, related anyway, you can see the money reward as payment for the job displacing other possibilities, as you could be doing something else.

I go to work because I enjoy it. Nice to be useful

Same here.

Still, it’s nice to be paid as well.

of course.. being paid is great.
but it’s not the sole reason I work

Stumpy_seahorse said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Stumpy_seahorse said:

I go to work because I enjoy it. Nice to be useful

Same here.

Still, it’s nice to be paid as well.

of course.. being paid is great.
but it’s not the sole reason I work

work sets you free.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Stumpy_seahorse said:

transition said:

i’d guess most people work for $$$, it’s highly convertible, and to do that they need instrumental desires (another type of conversion). Even if you detest work, it’s I want to go to work to earn the money to buy a new car, sort of thing.

of boredom, related anyway, you can see the money reward as payment for the job displacing other possibilities, as you could be doing something else.

I go to work because I enjoy it. Nice to be useful

Same here.

Still, it’s nice to be paid as well.

rev’d be happy to go back to barter.

transition said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Stumpy_seahorse said:

I go to work because I enjoy it. Nice to be useful

Same here.

Still, it’s nice to be paid as well.

rev’d be happy to go back to barter.

I don’t think that would be very good for us..
Mrs SS and I are no good at haggling.

Bloke near fell off his chair last week when we paid him his asking price for the car last week

transition said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Stumpy_seahorse said:

I go to work because I enjoy it. Nice to be useful

Same here.

Still, it’s nice to be paid as well.

rev’d be happy to go back to barter.

meaning the conversion qualities of money do facilitate a broad range of instrumental desires (that sort of conversion), which’d require some degree of dismissing to then say I work because I enjoy it, more than the value of money.

transition said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Stumpy_seahorse said:

I go to work because I enjoy it. Nice to be useful

Same here.

Still, it’s nice to be paid as well.

rev’d be happy to go back to barter.

Barter’s OK if you can convince other people to go along with it, but it doesn’t always work.

For instance, I got my next door neighbour to renovate my bathroom for me, but I had to pay him with money because for some reason the bastard didn’t need any bridge beams designing.

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Same here.

Still, it’s nice to be paid as well.

rev’d be happy to go back to barter.

Barter’s OK if you can convince other people to go along with it, but it doesn’t always work.

For instance, I got my next door neighbour to renovate my bathroom for me, but I had to pay him with money because for some reason the bastard didn’t need any bridge beams designing.

trying to undermine our currency and tax system

smack

:-)

Once again, i stand chastised before my betters.

In mitigation, i plead that i’m a victim of circumstance, and the mercenary traditions of my family.