Date: 5/07/2018 12:37:58
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1248520
Subject: Scott and Scurvy

poikilotherm said:


Seems scurvy was cured…then it wasn’t…

http://idlewords.com/2010/03/scott_and_scurvy.htm


> Scott’s 1911 expedition to the South Pole … Atkinson inclined to Almroth Wright’s theory that scurvy is due to an acid intoxication of the blood caused by bacteria… Now, I had been taught in school that scurvy had been conquered in 1747, when the Scottish physician James Lind proved in one of the first controlled medical experiments that citrus fruits were an effective cure for the disease. From that point on, we were told, the Royal Navy had required a daily dose of lime juice to be mixed in with sailors’ grog, and scurvy ceased to be a problem on long ocean voyages.

> In 1799, all Royal Navy ships on foreign service were ordered to serve lemon juice … when the Admiralty began to replace lemon juice with an ineffective substitute in 1860, it took a long time for anyone to notice. In that year, naval authorities switched procurement from Mediterranean lemons to West Indian limes. … A 1918 animal experiment using representative samples of lime juice from the navy and merchant marine showed that the ‘preventative’ often lacked any antiscorbutic power at all. By the 1870s, therefore, most British ships were sailing without protection against scurvy. Only speed and improved nutrition on land were preventing sailors from getting sick.

All I can tell you off-hand is that, if I remember correctly, one of the reasons for he great successes of Captain Cook circa 1770 was in his successful treatment of scurvy on board.

There was another incident, I can’t remember precisely who, but it involved one of the first ship visits to the Barents Sea. The ship was badly affected by scurvy when the scientist on board discovered on an island they were visiting a plant that had ascorbic acid. He returned to the ship extremely excited. The crew refused to eat it, complaining of its taste and saying that the scientist was trying to poison them. He finally convinced the captain to eat it, but not the crew. A lot of sailors died of scurvy on that voyage, but not the scientist or captain.

Reply Quote

Date: 5/07/2018 12:47:57
From: transition
ID: 1248528
Subject: re: Scott and Scurvy

mollwollfumble said:


poikilotherm said:

Seems scurvy was cured…then it wasn’t…

http://idlewords.com/2010/03/scott_and_scurvy.htm


> Scott’s 1911 expedition to the South Pole … Atkinson inclined to Almroth Wright’s theory that scurvy is due to an acid intoxication of the blood caused by bacteria… Now, I had been taught in school that scurvy had been conquered in 1747, when the Scottish physician James Lind proved in one of the first controlled medical experiments that citrus fruits were an effective cure for the disease. From that point on, we were told, the Royal Navy had required a daily dose of lime juice to be mixed in with sailors’ grog, and scurvy ceased to be a problem on long ocean voyages.

> In 1799, all Royal Navy ships on foreign service were ordered to serve lemon juice … when the Admiralty began to replace lemon juice with an ineffective substitute in 1860, it took a long time for anyone to notice. In that year, naval authorities switched procurement from Mediterranean lemons to West Indian limes. … A 1918 animal experiment using representative samples of lime juice from the navy and merchant marine showed that the ‘preventative’ often lacked any antiscorbutic power at all. By the 1870s, therefore, most British ships were sailing without protection against scurvy. Only speed and improved nutrition on land were preventing sailors from getting sick.

All I can tell you off-hand is that, if I remember correctly, one of the reasons for he great successes of Captain Cook circa 1770 was in his successful treatment of scurvy on board.

There was another incident, I can’t remember precisely who, but it involved one of the first ship visits to the Barents Sea. The ship was badly affected by scurvy when the scientist on board discovered on an island they were visiting a plant that had ascorbic acid. He returned to the ship extremely excited. The crew refused to eat it, complaining of its taste and saying that the scientist was trying to poison them. He finally convinced the captain to eat it, but not the crew. A lot of sailors died of scurvy on that voyage, but not the scientist or captain.

just reading, quite interesting…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scurvy

Reply Quote

Date: 5/07/2018 12:51:52
From: transition
ID: 1248530
Subject: re: Scott and Scurvy

transition said:


mollwollfumble said:

poikilotherm said:

Seems scurvy was cured…then it wasn’t…

http://idlewords.com/2010/03/scott_and_scurvy.htm


> Scott’s 1911 expedition to the South Pole … Atkinson inclined to Almroth Wright’s theory that scurvy is due to an acid intoxication of the blood caused by bacteria… Now, I had been taught in school that scurvy had been conquered in 1747, when the Scottish physician James Lind proved in one of the first controlled medical experiments that citrus fruits were an effective cure for the disease. From that point on, we were told, the Royal Navy had required a daily dose of lime juice to be mixed in with sailors’ grog, and scurvy ceased to be a problem on long ocean voyages.

> In 1799, all Royal Navy ships on foreign service were ordered to serve lemon juice … when the Admiralty began to replace lemon juice with an ineffective substitute in 1860, it took a long time for anyone to notice. In that year, naval authorities switched procurement from Mediterranean lemons to West Indian limes. … A 1918 animal experiment using representative samples of lime juice from the navy and merchant marine showed that the ‘preventative’ often lacked any antiscorbutic power at all. By the 1870s, therefore, most British ships were sailing without protection against scurvy. Only speed and improved nutrition on land were preventing sailors from getting sick.

All I can tell you off-hand is that, if I remember correctly, one of the reasons for he great successes of Captain Cook circa 1770 was in his successful treatment of scurvy on board.

There was another incident, I can’t remember precisely who, but it involved one of the first ship visits to the Barents Sea. The ship was badly affected by scurvy when the scientist on board discovered on an island they were visiting a plant that had ascorbic acid. He returned to the ship extremely excited. The crew refused to eat it, complaining of its taste and saying that the scientist was trying to poison them. He finally convinced the captain to eat it, but not the crew. A lot of sailors died of scurvy on that voyage, but not the scientist or captain.

just reading, quite interesting…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scurvy

“In the resulting confusion, a new hypothesis was proposed, following the new germ theory of disease – that scurvy was caused by ptomaine, a waste product of bacteria, particularly in tainted tinned meat.

Infantile scurvy emerged in the late 19th century because children were being fed pasteurized cow’s milk, particularly in the urban upper class. While pasteurization killed bacteria, it also destroyed vitamin C. This was eventually resolved by supplementing with onion juice or cooked potatoes.
20th century

By the early 20th century, when Robert Falcon Scott made his first expedition to the Antarctic (1901–1904), the prevailing theory was that scurvy was caused by “ptomaine poisoning”, particularly in tinned meat. However, Scott discovered that a diet of fresh meat from Antarctic seals cured scurvy before any fatalities occurred.

In 1907, an animal model which would eventually help to isolate and identify the “antiscorbutic factor” was discovered. Axel Holst and Theodor Frølich, two Norwegian physicians studying shipboard beriberi contracted by ship’s crews in the Norwegian Fishing Fleet, wanted a small test mammal to substitute for the pigeons then used in beriberi research. They fed guinea pigs their test diet of grains and flour, which had earlier produced beriberi in their pigeons, and were surprised when classic scurvy resulted instead. This was a serendipitous choice of animal. Until that time, scurvy had not been observed in any organism apart from humans and had been considered an exclusively human disease. Certain birds, mammals, and fish are susceptible to scurvy, but pigeons are unaffected, since they can synthesize ascorbic acid internally. Holst and Frølich found they could cure scurvy in guinea pigs with the addition of various fresh foods and extracts. This discovery of an animal experimental model for scurvy, which was made even before the essential idea of “vitamins” in foods had been put forward, has been called the single most important piece of vitamin C research”

Reply Quote

Date: 5/07/2018 12:54:20
From: Cymek
ID: 1248533
Subject: re: Scott and Scurvy

Did they give the cure to those poor dogs owned by pirates

Reply Quote

Date: 5/07/2018 13:01:17
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1248538
Subject: re: Scott and Scurvy

Cymek said:


Did they give the cure to those poor dogs owned by pirates

That was Johnson’s snakebite antidote.
Could you explain the question in more detail please?

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Date: 5/07/2018 13:06:53
From: Cymek
ID: 1248541
Subject: re: Scott and Scurvy

mollwollfumble said:


Cymek said:

Did they give the cure to those poor dogs owned by pirates

That was Johnson’s snakebite antidote.
Could you explain the question in more detail please?

You know pirates always going on about scurvy dogs

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Date: 5/07/2018 13:13:18
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1248549
Subject: re: Scott and Scurvy

Cymek said:


mollwollfumble said:

Cymek said:

Did they give the cure to those poor dogs owned by pirates

That was Johnson’s snakebite antidote.
Could you explain the question in more detail please?

You know pirates always going on about scurvy dogs

Got it.

Reply Quote

Date: 5/07/2018 18:36:46
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1248787
Subject: re: Scott and Scurvy

“A major hospital in western Sydney recently reported a number of diabetes patients were suffering from scurvy”.

“Some people are more at risk of scurvy than others. Those at high risk are usually elderly people who may have difficulty chewing vitamin C-rich foods, and those with a diet devoid of fresh fruits and vegetables due to low incomes, ignorance or excessively restrictive diets, for example as a result of allergies.”

> There was another incident, I can’t remember precisely who, but it involved one of the first ship visits to the Barents Sea. The ship was badly affected by scurvy when the scientist on board discovered on an island they were visiting a plant that had ascorbic acid. He returned to the ship extremely excited. The crew refused to eat it, complaining of its taste and saying that the scientist was trying to poison them. He finally convinced the captain to eat it, but not the crew. A lot of sailors died of scurvy on that voyage, but not the scientist or captain.

Not in the Barents Sea. Possibly north of the Bering Strait.

“The Royal Society has been honouring scientific curiosity. Captain James Cook, … winners of the Society’s Copley Medal for
outstanding achievements in research. … Captain Cook received his medal for the methods he used to protect his crew from scurvy.”

“Cook is best remembered as a sci
entist and navigator. Less well
known is that Cook was commended
by the Royal Society for his work on
improving the health of seamen.
Had it not been for Cook’s aware
ness of the benefits of health main
tenance and disease prevention, we
might all be speaking French instead
of English. La Perouse ran a close
second in the race to claim our
shores.
When Cook provisioned the En-
deavour in 1768 there was generally
little understanding of the import
ance of nutrition.
In the 18th century the diet of the
men at sea left a lot to be desired.
According to Admiralty Regulations
of the time, each man was allowed
lib of biscuits and a gallon of beer
every day. Beef or pork was available
four days a week, and oatmeal and
cheese on the remaining three.
Some of these provisions were far
from appetising. Banks wrote in his
journal that thousands of “vermin”
could be shaken out of a single bis-
cuit.
Taste apart, the food on board ship
was unsatisfactory because of the
lack of fresh fruit and vegetables. The
diet was deficient in vitamins, espe-
cially Vitamin C.
Scurvy, the resultant disease, often
caused the death of the majority of
the crew on an extended sea voyage.
Cook was” one who believed that
certain foodstuffs would prevent the
onset of scurvy, or even cure it in the
early stages.
The Endeavour was provided with
several items which were believed to
be effective in this way. These includ
ed malt, sauerkraut, portable soup (a
dehydrated product) and a concen
trate of oranges and lemons.
It is now known, of course, that
aqueous solution of Vitamin C are
relatively unstable and the citrus
juice taken on board when the ship
sailed in 1768 would have been of
little benefit in 1770.
Nevertheless, Cook’s insistence on
obtaining fresh food supplies when
ever possible kept his men fit and
healthy. By the time the Endeavour
reached Batavia (now Indonesia), al-
though there had been signs of scur-
vy, remarkably no-one had died of
the disease.”

“Bligh and his
men had covered 1600km since the
main mutiny on April 28 near the
island of Tofua in Tonga. They had
sore bottoms, cuts that would not
heal and leg cramps. They were
heavily tanned, none had scurvy”.

“But Sturt was unwilling to concede defeat.
In January, 1845, after almost losing all the
bullocks amongst waterless sand ridges, the
party encamped at Depot Glen (50 kilometres
south of Tibooburra). There the entire party
was trapped for six months by drought: the
creek fell steadily, the raucous flights of
cockatoos departed, the provisions were cut,
scurvy broke out. … He finally was
persuaded to eat the shiny red berries
of the ruby salt bush, abundant with
vitamin C”.

“the First Fleet’s scurvy problems in 1788”

“16 Aboriginal infant deaths in Collarenebri since 1957 due to scurvy – cause of death not recognised at the time”.

From 1960. “There were 29 cases of scurvy in N.S.W. last year”.

Reply Quote

Date: 5/07/2018 18:48:39
From: Michael V
ID: 1248796
Subject: re: Scott and Scurvy

“16 Aboriginal infant deaths in Collarenebri since 1957 due to scurvy – cause of death not recognised at the time”.

—————————————————————————————-

Take care. Archie Kalokerinos was a first order charlatan, who “believed” in the Linus Pauling notion that massive ongoing Vitamin C doses was the cure-all for diseases.

Reply Quote

Date: 5/07/2018 18:53:56
From: roughbarked
ID: 1248803
Subject: re: Scott and Scurvy

Michael V said:


“16 Aboriginal infant deaths in Collarenebri since 1957 due to scurvy – cause of death not recognised at the time”.

—————————————————————————————-

Take care. Archie Kalokerinos was a first order charlatan, who “believed” in the Linus Pauling notion that massive ongoing Vitamin C doses was the cure-all for diseases.

The opal miner cum charlatan quack?

Yeah. That’s the one.

Look he did say some things that were true but most opal miners I know are whacko jobs.

Reply Quote

Date: 6/07/2018 02:54:03
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1248979
Subject: re: Scott and Scurvy

roughbarked said:


Michael V said:

“16 Aboriginal infant deaths in Collarenebri since 1957 due to scurvy – cause of death not recognised at the time”.

—————————————————————————————-

Take care. Archie Kalokerinos was a first order charlatan, who “believed” in the Linus Pauling notion that massive ongoing Vitamin C doses was the cure-all for diseases.

The opal miner cum charlatan quack?

Yeah. That’s the one.

Look he did say some things that were true but most opal miners I know are whacko jobs.

Thanks a million for that heads up.

Reply Quote

Date: 7/07/2018 22:16:21
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1249686
Subject: re: Scott and Scurvy

no one thought to ask cook exactly how he kept scurvy at bay when he returned

(the royal navy probably knew diet was responsible for scurvy, it was cheaper feeding sailors rotten biscuits and rum than proper food which was expensive)

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Date: 7/07/2018 22:37:22
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1249688
Subject: re: Scott and Scurvy

The early Antarctic explorers suffered a lot from vitamin A poisoning from eating the livers of their sled dogs.

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