been pondering the idea of consciousness as thief for a while, the possibility it might be characterized so, as a thought experiment.

it’s yielded SFA to-date. In fact it seems to have disappeared into the woods. It’s hiding.

I don’t get the same experience if I say consciousness is an altruist, it doesn’t slowly retreat and vanish, no, it’s happy to stay around advertising and confirming its good work, even elaborating on the idea.

it’s not even that I have a negative concept of thief, so can’t explain it that way. Or maybe I do, who knows.

anyway I popped an imaginary antipsychotic earlier, and thought why not have a go, and here we are.

what’s the most rudimentary example of a thief you can conjure, even if it barely qualifies? Of living creatures, or, if you can think of something that might qualify for pinching something that’s by way of something generally accepted as inanimate, or non-living, well, i’d be impressed, possibly it might even blow my mind.

so what’s the essence of pinching stuff? And hiding it or being stealthy.

transition said:

been pondering the idea of consciousness as thief for a while, the possibility it might be characterized so, as a thought experiment.

it’s yielded SFA to-date. In fact it seems to have disappeared into the woods. It’s hiding.

I don’t get the same experience if I say consciousness is an altruist, it doesn’t slowly retreat and vanish, no, it’s happy to stay around advertising and confirming its good work, even elaborating on the idea.

it’s not even that I have a negative concept of thief, so can’t explain it that way. Or maybe I do, who knows.

anyway I popped an imaginary antipsychotic earlier, and thought why not have a go, and here we are.

what’s the most rudimentary example of a thief you can conjure, even if it barely qualifies? Of living creatures, or, if you can think of something that might qualify for pinching something that’s by way of something generally accepted as inanimate, or non-living, well, i’d be impressed, possibly it might even blow my mind.

so what’s the essence of pinching stuff? And hiding it or being stealthy.

You don’t have a negative concept of thief?

Why not?

But anyway, my arch-typal thief is the cuckoo.
(She’s a pretty bird, she sings as she flies).

Can’t think of inanimate thieves at the moment, but I’m sure there are lots of them.

Black hole maybe.

A bank looks like an inanimate object.

Metaphors, what can’t they do?

Procrastination is a time thief

Cymek said:

Procrastination is a time thief

you can always put off looking at the clock…

>You don’t have a negative concept of thief? Why not?

it might have all turned around after I watched a Clint Eastwood movie.

but seriously, i’m sure the box of tricks in the cranium is pinching stuff all the time and hiding its work.

transition said:

>You don’t have a negative concept of thief? Why not?

it might have all turned around after I watched a Clint Eastwood movie.

but seriously, i’m sure the box of tricks in the cranium is pinching stuff all the time and hiding its work.

OK, well in a sense it’s pinching energy all the time, in the sense that it’s not giving anything in return for it.

But in the words of the song:
You give all your brightness away,
But it only makes you brighter.

Which is quite literally true, so our crania nicking energy doesn’t actually harm the Sun at all, so is it really thieving?

The strangler fig, on the other hand, really is a thief.

And having consulted TATE, I find that may not be true:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strangler_fig

An original support tree can sometimes die, so that the strangler fig becomes a “columnar tree” with a hollow central core. However, it is also believed that the strangler fig can help the support tree survive storms.

You certainly have a strange view of consciousness Transition.

Consciousness is a state of awareness of the human brain, its not something abstract and hard to define.

Maybe religious people have bent the idea of consciousness to try and suit their view of the world.

If religious teachings interfere with understanding reality, then I guess one would expect a strange view to be held.

People get emotionally connected to something and then when questioned about it get emotional and abusive.

Most normal non religious people do not have this problem.

As for stealing things, a lot of people are greedy and greed is built into people for survival.

Greed is an emotion.

If emotional control is not taught to people then for some people that behavior will be uncontrolled.

Do they teach emotional control and emotional intelligence in schools yet? No they don’t . Why not?.

How many emotions are there?

80 + and they all can overlap and change constantly.

>Consciousness is a state of awareness of the human brain, its not something abstract and hard to define

you’re on your way to writing a best seller, and revolutionizing AI.

Tau.Neutrino said:

You certainly have a strange view of consciousness Transition.

Agreed

Tau.Neutrino said:

Consciousness is a state of awareness of the human brain, its not something abstract and hard to define.

Don’t agree. As with every other attribute that has a continuum of different levels, it is very hard to define.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Maybe religious people have bent the idea of consciousness to try and suit their view of the world.

I’m sure they have and do.

Tau.Neutrino said:

If religious teachings interfere with understanding reality, then I guess one would expect a strange view to be held.

Agreed.

Tau.Neutrino said:

People get emotionally connected to something and then when questioned about it get emotional and abusive.

They do, but I’m not sure why you raise that in response to transition, who very rarely gets abusive here, in spite of frequent provocation.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Most normal non religious people do not have this problem.

You can’t be serious.

Tau.Neutrino said:

As for stealing things, a lot of people are greedy and greed is built into people for survival.

Agreed, but so is cooperation.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Greed is an emotion.

I don’t think I’d use the word “emotion” in that sense.

Tau.Neutrino said:

If emotional control is not taught to people then for some people that behavior will be uncontrolled.

Do they teach emotional control and emotional intelligence in schools yet? No they don’t . Why not?.

How many emotions are there?

80 + and they all can overlap and change constantly.

School teaching is full or emotional control.

I’m not sure it would be productive to have specific lessons on it though.

transition said:

>Consciousness is a state of awareness of the human brain, its not something abstract and hard to define

you’re on your way to writing a best seller, and revolutionizing AI.

If it isn’t and consciousness resides elsewhere like say in one of the extra dimension of string theory but is intimately connected to a person than AI and uploading ourselves might not be possible

generally a thief deprives someone (else) of something, that’s the idea, put most simply.

there are too the territory of intangibles, which the concept must extend into, and perhaps it originates there.

clearly there are intangibles about the workings of minds, which includes consciousness.

from that, i’d assert consciousness can deprive self of something.

but the idea is more that consciousness can be characterized as a thief, as a theme, that it operates like one.

it pinches stuff, and hides its work.

transition said:

generally a thief deprives someone (else) of something, that’s the idea, put most simply.

there are too the territory of intangibles, which the concept must extend into, and perhaps it originates there.

clearly there are intangibles about the workings of minds, which includes consciousness.

from that, i’d assert consciousness can deprive self of something.

but the idea is more that consciousness can be characterized as a thief, as a theme, that it operates like one.

it pinches stuff, and hides its work.

Sorry, ISDGI.

transition said:

generally a thief deprives someone (else) of something, that’s the idea, put most simply.

there are too the territory of intangibles, which the concept must extend into, and perhaps it originates there.

clearly there are intangibles about the workings of minds, which includes consciousness.

from that, i’d assert consciousness can deprive self of something.

but the idea is more that consciousness can be characterized as a thief, as a theme, that it operates like one.

it pinches stuff, and hides its work.

Surely consciousness is a giver as it makes us who we are, without it what would we be

Cymek said:

transition said:

generally a thief deprives someone (else) of something, that’s the idea, put most simply.

there are too the territory of intangibles, which the concept must extend into, and perhaps it originates there.

clearly there are intangibles about the workings of minds, which includes consciousness.

from that, i’d assert consciousness can deprive self of something.

but the idea is more that consciousness can be characterized as a thief, as a theme, that it operates like one.

it pinches stuff, and hides its work.

Surely consciousness is a giver as it makes us who we are, without it what would we be

of course it gives, that’s evident.

think of it as a device that washes the dirty money, so to speak.

transition said:

Cymek said:

transition said:

generally a thief deprives someone (else) of something, that’s the idea, put most simply.

there are too the territory of intangibles, which the concept must extend into, and perhaps it originates there.

clearly there are intangibles about the workings of minds, which includes consciousness.

from that, i’d assert consciousness can deprive self of something.

but the idea is more that consciousness can be characterized as a thief, as a theme, that it operates like one.

it pinches stuff, and hides its work.

Surely consciousness is a giver as it makes us who we are, without it what would we be

of course it gives, that’s evident.

think of it as a device that washes the dirty money, so to speak.

Like a filter on how to behave ?

Cymek said:

transition said:

Cymek said:

Surely consciousness is a giver as it makes us who we are, without it what would we be

of course it gives, that’s evident.

think of it as a device that washes the dirty money, so to speak.

Like a filter on how to behave ?

neutrino could probably better answer that, his consciousness apparently has never deprived anyone else or himself of anything, and certainly not intentionally.

transition said:

Cymek said:

transition said:

of course it gives, that’s evident.

think of it as a device that washes the dirty money, so to speak.

Like a filter on how to behave ?

neutrino could probably better answer that, his consciousness apparently has never deprived anyone else or himself of anything, and certainly not intentionally.

Living is depriving something else often of life

Cymek said:

transition said:

Cymek said:

Like a filter on how to behave ?

neutrino could probably better answer that, his consciousness apparently has never deprived anyone else or himself of anything, and certainly not intentionally.

Living is depriving something else often of life

Hunger is a basis for greed, once fed, if eating continues to obesity then that is a form of greed.

Collect more food then necessary, that is form of greed.

As for filters, everybody has different opinions on everything, there’s 7 billion people and that equates to 7 billion different perspectives on everything, so there’s your filter.

There are also sub filters within the species as seen in groups of people who form gangs, political organizations, religions and other groups and these are all interpreted slightly differently in each person.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

You certainly have a strange view of consciousness Transition.

Agreed

Tau.Neutrino said:

Consciousness is a state of awareness of the human brain, its not something abstract and hard to define.

Don’t agree. As with every other attribute that has a continuum of different levels, it is very hard to define.

Agreed, but so is cooperation.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Greed is an emotion.

I don’t think I’d use the word “emotion” in that sense.

Tau.Neutrino said:

If emotional control is not taught to people then for some people that behavior will be uncontrolled.

Do they teach emotional control and emotional intelligence in schools yet? No they don’t . Why not?.

How many emotions are there?

80 + and they all can overlap and change constantly.

School teaching is full or emotional control.

I’m not sure it would be productive to have specific lessons on it though.

If teaching emotional control help reduce road rage, domestic violence, emotional violence, killing people and raping people then why not teach it?

I’m tired of the consciousness debate, its over, its been defined.

Tau.Neutrino said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

You certainly have a strange view of consciousness Transition.

Agreed

I don’t think I’d use the word “emotion” in that sense.

Tau.Neutrino said:

If emotional control is not taught to people then for some people that behavior will be uncontrolled.

Do they teach emotional control and emotional intelligence in schools yet? No they don’t . Why not?.

How many emotions are there?

80 + and they all can overlap and change constantly.

School teaching is full or emotional control.

I’m not sure it would be productive to have specific lessons on it though.

If teaching emotional control help reduce road rage, domestic violence, emotional violence, killing people and raping people then why not teach it?

I’m tired of the consciousness debate, its over, its been defined.

If teaching emotional control help reduce road rage, domestic violence, emotional violence, killing people and raping people then why not teach it?

When people are sentenced for the above the courts usually order them to attend a programme trying to help with emotional control. Problem I suppose is people rarely change as your core personality is already formed and it might actually be very hard to form new neural pathways that give you a better personality so to speak.

Cymek said:

If teaching emotional control help reduce road rage, domestic violence, emotional violence, killing people and raping people then why not teach it?

When people are sentenced for the above the courts usually order them to attend a programme trying to help with emotional control. Problem I suppose is people rarely change as your core personality is already formed and it might actually be very hard to form new neural pathways that give you a better personality so to speak.

The times table get taught

So why not teach the whole emotional spectrum as kids age through school ?

bulling happens at school so that one is easy to teach

Staying calm while angry, how many kids can do that ?

Staying calm while angry how many adults can do that ?

The pathway from violence usually can be traced back to loss of emotional control.

All these things,

road rage, domestic violence, emotional violence, killing people and raping people

They all can be traced back to loss of emotional control.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Cymek said:

If teaching emotional control help reduce road rage, domestic violence, emotional violence, killing people and raping people then why not teach it?

When people are sentenced for the above the courts usually order them to attend a programme trying to help with emotional control. Problem I suppose is people rarely change as your core personality is already formed and it might actually be very hard to form new neural pathways that give you a better personality so to speak.

The times table get taught

So why not teach the whole emotional spectrum as kids age through school ?

bulling happens at school so that one is easy to teach

Staying calm while angry, how many kids can do that ?

Staying calm while angry how many adults can do that ?

The pathway from violence usually can be traced back to loss of emotional control.

All these things,

road rage, domestic violence, emotional violence, killing people and raping people

They all can be traced back to loss of emotional control.

Problem seems to be is by the time they come to the attention of police/courts they are damaged.
The nature/nuture debate, mostly nuture (or lack of) and if its nature not a lot you can do except medication, often a combination of both. Its not an excuse but I do wonder if the human animal is aggressive and angry by evolution as it enabled us to be at the top of the food chain. Angry is probably an easy emotion to express but not control, the path to the dark side.

Cymek said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Cymek said:

If teaching emotional control help reduce road rage, domestic violence, emotional violence, killing people and raping people then why not teach it?

When people are sentenced for the above the courts usually order them to attend a programme trying to help with emotional control. Problem I suppose is people rarely change as your core personality is already formed and it might actually be very hard to form new neural pathways that give you a better personality so to speak.

The times table get taught

So why not teach the whole emotional spectrum as kids age through school ?

bulling happens at school so that one is easy to teach

Staying calm while angry, how many kids can do that ?

Staying calm while angry how many adults can do that ?

The pathway from violence usually can be traced back to loss of emotional control.

All these things,

road rage, domestic violence, emotional violence, killing people and raping people

They all can be traced back to loss of emotional control.

Problem seems to be is by the time they come to the attention of police/courts they are damaged.
The nature/nuture debate, mostly nuture (or lack of) and if its nature not a lot you can do except medication, often a combination of both. Its not an excuse but I do wonder if the human animal is aggressive and angry by evolution as it enabled us to be at the top of the food chain. Angry is probably an easy emotion to express but not control, the path to the dark side.

All the more reason to reach young children to stay in control when perhaps they are bullied at school or their parents loose emotional control in front of them.

They are too many things that can go wrong later in life, men rape and kill, we need to teach young males to stay in emotional control of their sexual desires. Women can rape too so it applies to both genders.

We need to teach young people to stay in emotional control when faced with life threatening situations later on in life.

People need to understand how emotional violence can damage them and we need to find ways to reduce that damage.

Tau.Neutrino said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

You certainly have a strange view of consciousness Transition.

Agreed

I don’t think I’d use the word “emotion” in that sense.

Tau.Neutrino said:

If emotional control is not taught to people then for some people that behavior will be uncontrolled.

Do they teach emotional control and emotional intelligence in schools yet? No they don’t . Why not?.

How many emotions are there?

80 + and they all can overlap and change constantly.

School teaching is full or emotional control.

I’m not sure it would be productive to have specific lessons on it though.

If teaching emotional control help reduce road rage, domestic violence, emotional violence, killing people and raping people then why not teach it?

I’m tired of the consciousness debate, its over, its been defined.

Thank goodness.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Cymek said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

The times table get taught

So why not teach the whole emotional spectrum as kids age through school ?

bulling happens at school so that one is easy to teach

Staying calm while angry, how many kids can do that ?

Staying calm while angry how many adults can do that ?

The pathway from violence usually can be traced back to loss of emotional control.

All these things,

road rage, domestic violence, emotional violence, killing people and raping people

They all can be traced back to loss of emotional control.

Problem seems to be is by the time they come to the attention of police/courts they are damaged.
The nature/nuture debate, mostly nuture (or lack of) and if its nature not a lot you can do except medication, often a combination of both. Its not an excuse but I do wonder if the human animal is aggressive and angry by evolution as it enabled us to be at the top of the food chain. Angry is probably an easy emotion to express but not control, the path to the dark side.

All the more reason to reach young children to stay in control when perhaps they are bullied at school or their parents loose emotional control in front of them.

They are too many things that can go wrong later in life, men rape and kill, we need to teach young males to stay in emotional control of their sexual desires. Women can rape too so it applies to both genders.

We need to teach young people to stay in emotional control when faced with life threatening situations later on in life.

People need to understand how emotional violence can damage them and we need to find ways to reduce that damage.

and yet you can’t control yourself and keep banging on about the same stuff day in day out. maybe take your own advice.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

School teaching is full or emotional control.

I’m not sure it would be productive to have specific lessons on it though.

If teaching emotional control help reduce road rage, domestic violence, emotional violence, killing people and raping people then why not teach it?

I’m tired of the consciousness debate, its over, its been defined.

Thank goodness.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8ukak8P2vY

Bogsnorkler said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Cymek said:

Problem seems to be is by the time they come to the attention of police/courts they are damaged.
The nature/nuture debate, mostly nuture (or lack of) and if its nature not a lot you can do except medication, often a combination of both. Its not an excuse but I do wonder if the human animal is aggressive and angry by evolution as it enabled us to be at the top of the food chain. Angry is probably an easy emotion to express but not control, the path to the dark side.

All the more reason to reach young children to stay in control when perhaps they are bullied at school or their parents loose emotional control in front of them.

They are too many things that can go wrong later in life, men rape and kill, we need to teach young males to stay in emotional control of their sexual desires. Women can rape too so it applies to both genders.

We need to teach young people to stay in emotional control when faced with life threatening situations later on in life.

People need to understand how emotional violence can damage them and we need to find ways to reduce that damage.

and yet you can’t control yourself and keep banging on about the same stuff day in day out. maybe take your own advice.

And yet I am in control .

You are choosing to read to reply, you are choosing to get emotional when you disagree with things.

Life is what you make it.

“Negative” emotions aren’t always bad, angry can be channelled, hatred less so.
I imagine they are necessary or perhaps we will evolve to be less that way

how’s that elephant

These two articles and others has lead me to believe that the problem of consciousness has been defined, but more work needs to be done.

Harvard researchers have found the source of human consciousness

There Are Three Kinds of Consciousness, And Computers Have Mastered One, Says Study

I agree that the general consensus is still a long way off.

Tau.Neutrino said:

These two articles and others has lead me to believe that the problem of consciousness has been defined, but more work needs to be done.

Harvard researchers have found the source of human consciousness

There Are Three Kinds of Consciousness, And Computers Have Mastered One, Says Study

I agree that the general consensus is still a long way off.

more articles

Why we need to figure out a theory of consciousness

Understanding the biology behind consciousness (or self-awareness) is considered by some to be the final frontier of science. And over the last decade, a fledgling community of “consciousness scientists” have gathered some interesting information about the differences between conscious and unconscious brain activity.

more…

What Is Consciousness?

Consciousness is everything you experience. It is the tune stuck in your head, the sweetness of chocolate mousse, the throbbing pain of a toothache, the fierce love for your child and the bitter knowledge that eventually all feelings will end.

more…

Why can’t the world’s greatest minds solve the mystery of consciousness?

One spring morning in Tucson, Arizona, in 1994, an unknown philosopher named David Chalmers got up to give a talk on consciousness, by which he meant the feeling of being inside your head, looking out – or, to use the kind of language that might give a neuroscientist an aneurysm, of having a soul. Though he didn’t realise it at the time, the young Australian academic was about to ignite a war between philosophers and scientists, by drawing attention to a central mystery of human life – perhaps the central mystery of human life – and revealing how embarrassingly far they were from solving it.

more…

A New Theory Explains How Consciousness Evolved

Ever since Charles Darwin published On the Origin of Species in 1859, evolution has been the grand unifying theory of biology. Yet one of our most important biological traits, consciousness, is rarely studied in the context of evolution. Theories of consciousness come from religion, from philosophy, from cognitive science, but not so much from evolutionary biology. Maybe that’s why so few theories have been able to tackle basic questions such as: What is the adaptive value of consciousness? When did it evolve and what animals have it?

more…

What Is Consciousness?

What does it mean to be conscious? It’s a question that philosophers and scientists have puzzled over perhaps since there have been philosophers and scientists.

more…

Article – What is consciousness, and could machines have it?

Paper – What is consciousness, and could machines have it?

The controversial question of whether machines may ever be conscious must be based on a careful consideration of how consciousness arises in the only physical system that undoubtedly possesses it: the human brain. We suggest that the word “consciousness” conflates two different types of information-processing computations in the brain: the selection of information for global broadcasting, thus making it flexibly available for computation and report (C1, consciousness in the first sense), and the self-monitoring of those computations, leading to a subjective sense of certainty or error (C2, consciousness in the second sense). We argue that despite their recent successes, current machines are still mostly implementing computations that reflect unconscious processing (C0) in the human brain. We review the psychological and neural science of unconscious (C0) and conscious computations (C1 and C2) and outline how they may inspire novel machine architectures.

Bogsnorkler said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Cymek said:

Problem seems to be is by the time they come to the attention of police/courts they are damaged.
The nature/nuture debate, mostly nuture (or lack of) and if its nature not a lot you can do except medication, often a combination of both. Its not an excuse but I do wonder if the human animal is aggressive and angry by evolution as it enabled us to be at the top of the food chain. Angry is probably an easy emotion to express but not control, the path to the dark side.

All the more reason to reach young children to stay in control when perhaps they are bullied at school or their parents loose emotional control in front of them.

They are too many things that can go wrong later in life, men rape and kill, we need to teach young males to stay in emotional control of their sexual desires. Women can rape too so it applies to both genders.

We need to teach young people to stay in emotional control when faced with life threatening situations later on in life.

People need to understand how emotional violence can damage them and we need to find ways to reduce that damage.

and yet you can’t control yourself and keep banging on about the same stuff day in day out. maybe take your own advice.

FFS

Just don’t read his stuff if you aren’t interested.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

These two articles and others has lead me to believe that the problem of consciousness has been defined, but more work needs to be done.

Harvard researchers have found the source of human consciousness

There Are Three Kinds of Consciousness, And Computers Have Mastered One, Says Study

I agree that the general consensus is still a long way off.

more articles

Why we need to figure out a theory of consciousness

Understanding the biology behind consciousness (or self-awareness) is considered by some to be the final frontier of science. And over the last decade, a fledgling community of “consciousness scientists” have gathered some interesting information about the differences between conscious and unconscious brain activity.

more…

What Is Consciousness?

Consciousness is everything you experience. It is the tune stuck in your head, the sweetness of chocolate mousse, the throbbing pain of a toothache, the fierce love for your child and the bitter knowledge that eventually all feelings will end.

more…

Why can’t the world’s greatest minds solve the mystery of consciousness?

One spring morning in Tucson, Arizona, in 1994, an unknown philosopher named David Chalmers got up to give a talk on consciousness, by which he meant the feeling of being inside your head, looking out – or, to use the kind of language that might give a neuroscientist an aneurysm, of having a soul. Though he didn’t realise it at the time, the young Australian academic was about to ignite a war between philosophers and scientists, by drawing attention to a central mystery of human life – perhaps the central mystery of human life – and revealing how embarrassingly far they were from solving it.

more…

A New Theory Explains How Consciousness Evolved

Ever since Charles Darwin published On the Origin of Species in 1859, evolution has been the grand unifying theory of biology. Yet one of our most important biological traits, consciousness, is rarely studied in the context of evolution. Theories of consciousness come from religion, from philosophy, from cognitive science, but not so much from evolutionary biology. Maybe that’s why so few theories have been able to tackle basic questions such as: What is the adaptive value of consciousness? When did it evolve and what animals have it?

more…

What Is Consciousness?

What does it mean to be conscious? It’s a question that philosophers and scientists have puzzled over perhaps since there have been philosophers and scientists.

more…

Article – What is consciousness, and could machines have it?

Paper – What is consciousness, and could machines have it?

The controversial question of whether machines may ever be conscious must be based on a careful consideration of how consciousness arises in the only physical system that undoubtedly possesses it: the human brain. We suggest that the word “consciousness” conflates two different types of information-processing computations in the brain: the selection of information for global broadcasting, thus making it flexibly available for computation and report (C1, consciousness in the first sense), and the self-monitoring of those computations, leading to a subjective sense of certainty or error (C2, consciousness in the second sense). We argue that despite their recent successes, current machines are still mostly implementing computations that reflect unconscious processing (C0) in the human brain. We review the psychological and neural science of unconscious (C0) and conscious computations (C1 and C2) and outline how they may inspire novel machine architectures.

It’s an extremely interesting field of research
We talk about AI being a danger but I wonder if we would be a danger to thinking machines.
Would an AI be a slave or free (with restraints ?) to what it can do. Do we hide our ugly side from it or let it view humanity warts and all.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Bogsnorkler said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

All the more reason to reach young children to stay in control when perhaps they are bullied at school or their parents loose emotional control in front of them.

They are too many things that can go wrong later in life, men rape and kill, we need to teach young males to stay in emotional control of their sexual desires. Women can rape too so it applies to both genders.

We need to teach young people to stay in emotional control when faced with life threatening situations later on in life.

People need to understand how emotional violence can damage them and we need to find ways to reduce that damage.

and yet you can’t control yourself and keep banging on about the same stuff day in day out. maybe take your own advice.

FFS

Just don’t read his stuff if you aren’t interested.

Agree, I don’t force people to talk to me.

If someone does not want to talk to me, then don’t.

Cymek said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

These two articles and others has lead me to believe that the problem of consciousness has been defined, but more work needs to be done.

Harvard researchers have found the source of human consciousness

There Are Three Kinds of Consciousness, And Computers Have Mastered One, Says Study

I agree that the general consensus is still a long way off.

more articles

Why we need to figure out a theory of consciousness

Understanding the biology behind consciousness (or self-awareness) is considered by some to be the final frontier of science. And over the last decade, a fledgling community of “consciousness scientists” have gathered some interesting information about the differences between conscious and unconscious brain activity.

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What Is Consciousness?

Consciousness is everything you experience. It is the tune stuck in your head, the sweetness of chocolate mousse, the throbbing pain of a toothache, the fierce love for your child and the bitter knowledge that eventually all feelings will end.

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Why can’t the world’s greatest minds solve the mystery of consciousness?

One spring morning in Tucson, Arizona, in 1994, an unknown philosopher named David Chalmers got up to give a talk on consciousness, by which he meant the feeling of being inside your head, looking out – or, to use the kind of language that might give a neuroscientist an aneurysm, of having a soul. Though he didn’t realise it at the time, the young Australian academic was about to ignite a war between philosophers and scientists, by drawing attention to a central mystery of human life – perhaps the central mystery of human life – and revealing how embarrassingly far they were from solving it.

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A New Theory Explains How Consciousness Evolved

Ever since Charles Darwin published On the Origin of Species in 1859, evolution has been the grand unifying theory of biology. Yet one of our most important biological traits, consciousness, is rarely studied in the context of evolution. Theories of consciousness come from religion, from philosophy, from cognitive science, but not so much from evolutionary biology. Maybe that’s why so few theories have been able to tackle basic questions such as: What is the adaptive value of consciousness? When did it evolve and what animals have it?

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What Is Consciousness?

What does it mean to be conscious? It’s a question that philosophers and scientists have puzzled over perhaps since there have been philosophers and scientists.

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Article – What is consciousness, and could machines have it?

Paper – What is consciousness, and could machines have it?

The controversial question of whether machines may ever be conscious must be based on a careful consideration of how consciousness arises in the only physical system that undoubtedly possesses it: the human brain. We suggest that the word “consciousness” conflates two different types of information-processing computations in the brain: the selection of information for global broadcasting, thus making it flexibly available for computation and report (C1, consciousness in the first sense), and the self-monitoring of those computations, leading to a subjective sense of certainty or error (C2, consciousness in the second sense). We argue that despite their recent successes, current machines are still mostly implementing computations that reflect unconscious processing (C0) in the human brain. We review the psychological and neural science of unconscious (C0) and conscious computations (C1 and C2) and outline how they may inspire novel machine architectures.

It’s an extremely interesting field of research
We talk about AI being a danger but I wonder if we would be a danger to thinking machines.
Would an AI be a slave or free (with restraints ?) to what it can do. Do we hide our ugly side from it or let it view humanity warts and all.

It is an interesting field of research.

What worries me right is that Robots and AI are here with us now

Robots and AI machines will be programmed with emotions.

We do not teach emotional intelligence to children at school .

Then a lot of people grow up and cannot understand their emotions well enough to be able to control them, and can “loose it” in an argument.

How can we make laws about “robots and robot emotions” when its something that we cannot understand very well?

Do we let it be become more of a mess ? or do we start doing some research into it to understand things better.

does a conscious creature go a day without some idea their desires, thoughts and actions displace some other.

I doubt it.

and it is thermodynamics (time’s arrow) that compels all the steal whatever, as it gives and takes. To make that work you probably need agreement about what won’t be seen as theft.

must have had the movie absolute power in mind when wrote the OP, not that seen it for a long time.

transition said:

does a conscious creature go a day without some idea their desires, thoughts and actions displace some other.

I doubt it.

and it is thermodynamics (time’s arrow) that compels all the steal whatever, as it gives and takes. To make that work you probably need agreement about what won’t be seen as theft.

must have had the movie absolute power in mind when wrote the OP, not that seen it for a long time.

that should read..

…that compels all to steal whatever..

taking this idea, this thought experiment into the social psychology domain

take the recent cave rescue, and consider its value as entertainment.

you might argue it was a desire to help that made it compelling, empathy in a way, empathizing with those there under pressure to help, and empathizing with those stuck in the cave. Made more compelling by appreciating the urgency, that the situation there was time-sensitive.

I doubt anyone there stuck in the cave, or the family and friends of, or the rescuers found it entertaining in any way at all.

the kids got to be famous, and the town nearby, an important thing conveyed by the media reports. You’re the audience that helped make them famous. You and the media delivery machine create fame. You’re sharing in it.

the story could have turned horrendous, and still it would have been entertainment.

there’s probably an argument that the attention helped get more resources to the rescue. Maybe it did, maybe some aspects of the pressure made the rescue more difficult.

now to looking into the comparative workings of the social mind.

if you removed all the glad it’s not me from the typical human mind it might involve a radical lobotomy. I should qualify that, and say of people perhaps that allow themselves broad scope for what is entertaining. I’m being generous. It’s worse than that, you’re as glad you’ve not been stuck in a cave and have safely watching it from the sofa as you are glad you’re not dead. It’s as true as it is perverse.

i’d say glad it’s not me is so pervasive of the workings of minds and across the species it requires some serious shared equipment to make it appear like something else. Needs be convincing too. The upside is that it wouldn’t be convincing if there wasn’t an accompanying response to make good appearances.

there are shades of dissemblance about glad it’s not me, it morphs into entertainment, and even empathy. Of those last mentioned you’d have a job to distinguish them, if consciousness performs its magic properly.

in that territory consciousness is commonly a thief.