Date: 1/04/2022 16:00:41
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1867690
Subject: Ukraine Fights Back

Time for a new thread. The invasion one is bloated and we’re now often on the counteroffensive.

>Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison has said Australia will send armoured Bushmaster vehicles to Ukraine after President Volodymyr Zelenskiy specifically asked for them during a video appeal to Australian lawmakers.

Zelenskiy addressed the Australian Parliament on Thursday and asked for the Australian-made, four-wheel-drive vehicles.

Morrison told reporters the vehicles will be flown over on Boeing C-17 Globemaster transport planes. He didn’t specify how many would be sent or when…

Zelenskiy specifically asked for Bushmaster vehicles during his address to Australian Parliament.

“You have very good armed personnel vehicles, Bushmasters, that could help Ukraine substantially, and other pieces of equipment,” Zelenskiy said.

Guardian Live

Reply Quote

Date: 1/04/2022 16:02:46
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1867691
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Putin is now ‘a man in a cage he built himself’ UK defence secretary says

Earlier, we heard remarks from US president Joe Biden who suggested Putin appears to be “self isolated” with indications that he has either fired some of his advisers or put them under house arrest.

UK defence secretary Ben Wallace has seemingly concurred with this assessment, saying Putin is “not the force he used to be” as he becomes increasingly more isolated.

Speaking with Sky News, Wallace said:

President Putin is not the force he used to be. He is now a man in a cage he built himself. He’s isolated.

His army is exhausted, he has suffered significant losses. The reputation of this great army of Russia has been trashed.

He has not only got to live with the consequences of what he is doing to Ukraine, but he has also got to live with the consequences of what he has done to his own army.”

Wallace added that he believed Russian forces appear to be regrouping and shifting their focus towards the south and east of Ukraine.

“We have seen it before. It always gets worse. It goes for more civilian attacks, more civilian areas.”

Reply Quote

Date: 1/04/2022 16:07:19
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1867693
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

White House: Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has been ‘strategic disaster’

White House director of communications Kate Bedingfield has said that the US has evidence that the war against Ukraine has been “a strategic disaster” for Russia.

During a press briefing on Thursday afternoon, Bedingfield said:

“We have seen incontrovertible evidence that this has been a strategic disaster for Russia…

We have seen this invasion has been a strategic failure for Putin and for Russia. They are working to re-define the intentional the — the initial, I should say — the initial aims of their invasion.”

Bedingfield added that Russia will face further sanctions over its invasion of the country.

“Putin himself has said these sanctions have imposed unprecedented costs on the Russian economy, and our role is to continue to strengthen Ukraine on the battlefield.”

Reply Quote

Date: 1/04/2022 16:08:39
From: Cymek
ID: 1867696
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


Putin is now ‘a man in a cage he built himself’ UK defence secretary says

Earlier, we heard remarks from US president Joe Biden who suggested Putin appears to be “self isolated” with indications that he has either fired some of his advisers or put them under house arrest.

UK defence secretary Ben Wallace has seemingly concurred with this assessment, saying Putin is “not the force he used to be” as he becomes increasingly more isolated.

Speaking with Sky News, Wallace said:

President Putin is not the force he used to be. He is now a man in a cage he built himself. He’s isolated.

His army is exhausted, he has suffered significant losses. The reputation of this great army of Russia has been trashed.

He has not only got to live with the consequences of what he is doing to Ukraine, but he has also got to live with the consequences of what he has done to his own army.”

Wallace added that he believed Russian forces appear to be regrouping and shifting their focus towards the south and east of Ukraine.

“We have seen it before. It always gets worse. It goes for more civilian attacks, more civilian areas.”

Hopefully not a retreat and use nuclear weapons and/or thermobaric weapons.

Reply Quote

Date: 1/04/2022 16:16:23
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1867701
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Cymek said:


Bubblecar said:

Putin is now ‘a man in a cage he built himself’ UK defence secretary says

Earlier, we heard remarks from US president Joe Biden who suggested Putin appears to be “self isolated” with indications that he has either fired some of his advisers or put them under house arrest.

UK defence secretary Ben Wallace has seemingly concurred with this assessment, saying Putin is “not the force he used to be” as he becomes increasingly more isolated.

Speaking with Sky News, Wallace said:

President Putin is not the force he used to be. He is now a man in a cage he built himself. He’s isolated.

His army is exhausted, he has suffered significant losses. The reputation of this great army of Russia has been trashed.

He has not only got to live with the consequences of what he is doing to Ukraine, but he has also got to live with the consequences of what he has done to his own army.”

Wallace added that he believed Russian forces appear to be regrouping and shifting their focus towards the south and east of Ukraine.

“We have seen it before. It always gets worse. It goes for more civilian attacks, more civilian areas.”

Hopefully not a retreat and use nuclear weapons and/or thermobaric weapons.

Shame the army of hackers working for Ukraine can’t neutralise Russia’s nuclear weapons command system.

Reply Quote

Date: 1/04/2022 16:18:09
From: Cymek
ID: 1867704
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


Cymek said:

Bubblecar said:

Putin is now ‘a man in a cage he built himself’ UK defence secretary says

Earlier, we heard remarks from US president Joe Biden who suggested Putin appears to be “self isolated” with indications that he has either fired some of his advisers or put them under house arrest.

UK defence secretary Ben Wallace has seemingly concurred with this assessment, saying Putin is “not the force he used to be” as he becomes increasingly more isolated.

Speaking with Sky News, Wallace said:

President Putin is not the force he used to be. He is now a man in a cage he built himself. He’s isolated.

His army is exhausted, he has suffered significant losses. The reputation of this great army of Russia has been trashed.

He has not only got to live with the consequences of what he is doing to Ukraine, but he has also got to live with the consequences of what he has done to his own army.”

Wallace added that he believed Russian forces appear to be regrouping and shifting their focus towards the south and east of Ukraine.

“We have seen it before. It always gets worse. It goes for more civilian attacks, more civilian areas.”

Hopefully not a retreat and use nuclear weapons and/or thermobaric weapons.

Shame the army of hackers working for Ukraine can’t neutralise Russia’s nuclear weapons command system.

Yes
It is a worry he could decide to do something to escalate the war

Reply Quote

Date: 1/04/2022 16:22:06
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1867705
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Aussie Bushmasters, soon heading for Ukraine. Made in Bendigo.

Reply Quote

Date: 1/04/2022 16:25:10
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1867707
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

What is Australia’s troop carrier the Bushmaster and how will they help Ukraine?

A Bushmaster Protected Mobility Vehicle is an armoured vehicle designed to carry and rapidly deploy up to 10 battle-ready troops.

The vehicles are designed for all environments and are blast resistant.

Retired Australian Army Major General Mick Ryan describes Bushmasters as a “wonderful Australian-designed and built machine.”

How many does Australia have?

Retired Australian Army Lieutenant General Peter Leahy says Australia is in high supply of the vehicles.

“We’ve got over a thousand of them, in fact a number of them are surplus to requirement in the Australian Army, they’re also used by the air force,” Lieutenant General Leahy says.

“Other countries have them in service in small numbers but frankly we have more than we need.”

What makes them so good?

Major General Ryan says one of the appeals of the Bushmaster is that they are not difficult to operate.

“It would be very simple to train Ukrainians to use and maintain them,” Major General Ryan says.

A Bushmaster can sustain itself for a period of up to three days, with a central tyre inflation system allowing them to continue to travel with punctures.

The cabin design means the Bushmaster can serve many roles.

“They’ve saved Australian lives, they would do the same for the Ukrainians.”

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-01/what-is-the-bushmaster/100958322

Reply Quote

Date: 1/04/2022 16:27:17
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1867712
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


Cymek said:

Bubblecar said:

Putin is now ‘a man in a cage he built himself’ UK defence secretary says

Earlier, we heard remarks from US president Joe Biden who suggested Putin appears to be “self isolated” with indications that he has either fired some of his advisers or put them under house arrest.

UK defence secretary Ben Wallace has seemingly concurred with this assessment, saying Putin is “not the force he used to be” as he becomes increasingly more isolated.

Speaking with Sky News, Wallace said:

President Putin is not the force he used to be. He is now a man in a cage he built himself. He’s isolated.

His army is exhausted, he has suffered significant losses. The reputation of this great army of Russia has been trashed.

He has not only got to live with the consequences of what he is doing to Ukraine, but he has also got to live with the consequences of what he has done to his own army.”

Wallace added that he believed Russian forces appear to be regrouping and shifting their focus towards the south and east of Ukraine.

“We have seen it before. It always gets worse. It goes for more civilian attacks, more civilian areas.”

Hopefully not a retreat and use nuclear weapons and/or thermobaric weapons.

Shame the army of hackers working for Ukraine can’t neutralise Russia’s nuclear weapons command system.

I’d prefer it that outsiders of dubious intent couldn’t interfere with nuke weapons systems. If the good guys can hack them so can the bad guys.

Reply Quote

Date: 1/04/2022 16:28:18
From: dv
ID: 1867714
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Russian forces on Thursday confiscated 14 tons of humanitarian aid from buses bound for Melitopol in southern Ukraine, unutterable cunts that they are. Worthwhile remembering it is always legal to refuse to carry out a warcrime.

Reply Quote

Date: 1/04/2022 16:55:31
From: Woodie
ID: 1867722
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:

These things are being put to good use around these parts as part of the flood cleanup and help.

They are having an ADF parade in Casino as a thank you event on Saturday morning.

Reply Quote

Date: 1/04/2022 16:59:14
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1867723
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:

Shame the army of hackers working for Ukraine can’t neutralise Russia’s nuclear weapons command system.

¿ have nuclear weapons in the hands of some casual hackers ?

Reply Quote

Date: 1/04/2022 17:04:58
From: buffy
ID: 1867728
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


Russian forces on Thursday confiscated 14 tons of humanitarian aid from buses bound for Melitopol in southern Ukraine, unutterable cunts that they are. Worthwhile remembering it is always legal to refuse to carry out a warcrime.

It is possible they were unfed too. Although they probably didn’t need all of the 14 tons.

Reply Quote

Date: 1/04/2022 17:36:24
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1867740
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Massive explosion of fuel tank in Russia

Russia accuses Ukraine of attacking oil depot after huge explosion


A huge fireball erupted at the storage plant shortly before 6am local time

Moscow has accused two Ukrainian military helicopters of attacking a fuel storage depot in the Russian city of Belgorod.

It is the first accusation of a Ukrainian airstrike on Russian soil since Moscow invaded its neighbour in late February.

A huge fireball erupted at the storage plant in the Freida industrial district of Belgorod shortly before 6am local time.

Footage of the alleged attack appears to show several missiles being fired from low altitude resulting in a huge blast that sends flames and smoke into the air.

The videos have not been independently verified.

Firefighters have been seen trying to tackle the blaze which is around 25 miles from the Ukrainian border.

Vyacheslav Gladkov, the governor of Belgorod region has claimed the depot was hit by a low altitude Ukrainian helicopter strike with the resulting blaze injuring two people.

‘There are casualties. Two people. They’re employees of the oil depot. They’ve been given first aid and their lives are not in danger,’ he said.

‘We are starting to resettle the residents of Pochtovaya, Makarenko and Konstantin Zaslonov streets to a safer location.’

However, Russian oil firm Rosneft, which owns the depot, said in a separate statement that no one was hurt in the fire, though it gave no information on the cause.

Ukraine’s defence ministry has not responded or commented on the incident.

The explosion in Belgorod comes amid Western claims that Russia aims to stage ‘false flag’ attacks as a justification for continuing the war in Ukraine.

Two days earlier Russia claimed Ukrainian forces had dropped a missile on a munitions depot some 12 miles from the border, also in Belgorod region.

Six missiles hit the facility in Krasny Oktyabr with four soldiers wounded, according to Russian sources.

At the time, Gladkov said authorities were waiting for the Russian defence ministry to establish its cause.

If the attacks on Russian territory are confirmed as Ukraine, it would mark a significant escalation in the war, and a change of tactics from Kyiv.

Until now, hostilities have been limited mainly to Ukrainian territory.

https://metro.co.uk/2022/04/01/russia-accuses-ukraine-of-attacking-oil-depot-after-huge-explosion-16385151/

Reply Quote

Date: 1/04/2022 18:35:28
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1867757
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


Massive explosion of fuel tank in Russia

Russia accuses Ukraine of attacking oil depot after huge explosion


A huge fireball erupted at the storage plant shortly before 6am local time

Moscow has accused two Ukrainian military helicopters of attacking a fuel storage depot in the Russian city of Belgorod.

It is the first accusation of a Ukrainian airstrike on Russian soil since Moscow invaded its neighbour in late February.

A huge fireball erupted at the storage plant in the Freida industrial district of Belgorod shortly before 6am local time.

Footage of the alleged attack appears to show several missiles being fired from low altitude resulting in a huge blast that sends flames and smoke into the air.

The videos have not been independently verified.

Firefighters have been seen trying to tackle the blaze which is around 25 miles from the Ukrainian border.

Vyacheslav Gladkov, the governor of Belgorod region has claimed the depot was hit by a low altitude Ukrainian helicopter strike with the resulting blaze injuring two people.

‘There are casualties. Two people. They’re employees of the oil depot. They’ve been given first aid and their lives are not in danger,’ he said.

‘We are starting to resettle the residents of Pochtovaya, Makarenko and Konstantin Zaslonov streets to a safer location.’

However, Russian oil firm Rosneft, which owns the depot, said in a separate statement that no one was hurt in the fire, though it gave no information on the cause.

Ukraine’s defence ministry has not responded or commented on the incident.

The explosion in Belgorod comes amid Western claims that Russia aims to stage ‘false flag’ attacks as a justification for continuing the war in Ukraine.

Two days earlier Russia claimed Ukrainian forces had dropped a missile on a munitions depot some 12 miles from the border, also in Belgorod region.

Six missiles hit the facility in Krasny Oktyabr with four soldiers wounded, according to Russian sources.

At the time, Gladkov said authorities were waiting for the Russian defence ministry to establish its cause.

If the attacks on Russian territory are confirmed as Ukraine, it would mark a significant escalation in the war, and a change of tactics from Kyiv.

Until now, hostilities have been limited mainly to Ukrainian territory.

https://metro.co.uk/2022/04/01/russia-accuses-ukraine-of-attacking-oil-depot-after-huge-explosion-16385151/

What nobody cheering them on?

Reply Quote

Date: 1/04/2022 18:40:35
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1867758
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


What nobody cheering them on?

Western intelligence has warned that Russia is planning false flag attacks on its own territory to justify escalating the war.

So I’ll wait to hear what Ukraine has to say about this incident.

Reply Quote

Date: 1/04/2022 18:43:36
From: Cymek
ID: 1867759
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


PermeateFree said:

What nobody cheering them on?

Western intelligence has warned that Russia is planning false flag attacks on its own territory to justify escalating the war.

So I’ll wait to hear what Ukraine has to say about this incident.

It’s also not particularly moral to cheer for death and destruction in real life even if its against an enemy.

Reply Quote

Date: 1/04/2022 18:43:43
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1867760
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


PermeateFree said:

What nobody cheering them on?

Western intelligence has warned that Russia is planning false flag attacks on its own territory to justify escalating the war.

So I’ll wait to hear what Ukraine has to say about this incident.

Blowing up your own fuel tanks, Putin must be a real bastard.

Reply Quote

Date: 1/04/2022 18:44:57
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1867761
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


Bubblecar said:

PermeateFree said:

What nobody cheering them on?

Western intelligence has warned that Russia is planning false flag attacks on its own territory to justify escalating the war.

So I’ll wait to hear what Ukraine has to say about this incident.

Blowing up your own fuel tanks, Putin must be a real bastard.

He has no scruples of any kind.

Scruples don’t get you far in Russian politics.

Reply Quote

Date: 1/04/2022 18:45:08
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1867762
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Cymek said:


Bubblecar said:

PermeateFree said:

What nobody cheering them on?

Western intelligence has warned that Russia is planning false flag attacks on its own territory to justify escalating the war.

So I’ll wait to hear what Ukraine has to say about this incident.

It’s also not particularly moral to cheer for death and destruction in real life even if its against an enemy.

No lives lost apparently. But that was probably planned.

Reply Quote

Date: 1/04/2022 21:40:52
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1867813
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

There has been unofficial hints by Ukrainian officials that this attack was not carried out by Ukraine forces.

This presents two possibilities:

1. The Ukraine military is indeed on the front foot and is showing Russia how things are done, while leaving the question open as to who actually did it,

or

2. This is a Russian false flag operation to allow the continuation of the shelling of the Ukrainian cities.

I really can’t see it being option 2, because Russia needs no excuse to continue their current tactics, and punching yourself in the dick while claiming your opponent has a bigger dick isn’t really going to achieve much.

Reply Quote

Date: 1/04/2022 21:44:03
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1867816
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:

punching yourself in the dick while claiming your opponent has a bigger dick isn’t really going to achieve much.

might it swell up more

Reply Quote

Date: 1/04/2022 21:45:28
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1867817
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Guess this is going to go on for a while.

https://www.newsweek.com/what-are-conscripts-russia-vladimir-putin-orders-over-100000-more-1693809

Russian President Vladimir Putin signed a decree on Thursday ordering 134,500 new conscripts into the army as part of Russia’s annual spring draft amid its war with Ukraine. Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said on Tuesday that conscripts called to serve in the military in this latest draft would be deployed to their assigned bases in late May, according to Reuters. “Most military personnel will undergo professional training in training centers for three to five months. Let me emphasize that recruits will not be sent to any hot spots,” he said in a statement published on the ministry’s website.

Reply Quote

Date: 1/04/2022 21:50:23
From: furious
ID: 1867819
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

This guy, hey? Going to a different Parliament every day asking for weapons and such. And getting them, no questions asked. Building up quite the stockpile…

Reply Quote

Date: 1/04/2022 21:56:22
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1867823
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

I just found a mention of how the US military considered a strategy for suckering Japan into an attack of Pearl Harbour. More than a year before the actual attack.

An 8 point strategy appears in the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCollum_memo

“ The McCollum memo, also known as the Eight Action Memo, was a memorandum, dated October 7, 1940 (more than a year before the Pearl Harbour attack), sent by Lieutenant Commander Arthur H. McCollum, who provided the president with intelligence reports on Japan and oversaw every intercepted and decoded Japanese military and diplomatic report destined for the White House in his capacity as director of the Office of Naval Intelligence’s Far East Asia section. It was sent to Navy Captains Dudley Knox, who agreed with the actions described within the memo, and Walter Stratton Anderson.

“ The memo outlined the general situation of several nations in World War II and recommended an eight-part course of action for the United States to take in regard to the Japanese Empire in the South Pacific, suggesting the United States provoke Japan into committing an overt act of war. The memo illustrates several people in the Office of Naval Intelligence promoted the idea of goading Japan into war: It is not believed that in the present state of political opinion the United States government is capable of declaring war against Japan without more ado. If by this plan Japan could be led to commit an overt act of war, so much the better.”

An example of American thinking. Suckering other countries into attacking first is part of the thinking of US presidential military advisers. It doesn’t matter what the president thinks.

Reply Quote

Date: 1/04/2022 22:19:06
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1867825
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

furious said:

SCIENCE said:

Bubblecar said:

Bubblecar said:

captain_spalding said:

SCIENCE said:

dv said:

Michael V said:

Ukraine ambassador tells UN Security Council ‘demilitarisation of Russia’ is underway. Mr Kyslytsya said the Russian occupiers had lost more than 17,000 military personnel, over 1,700 armoured vehicles and almost 600 tanks. He also said Russia has lost 300 artillery systems, 127 planes and 129 helicopters, almost 100 rocket launchers, 54 air defence systems and seven ships.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-30/ukraine-russia-live-war-updates-/100950004

Heh

honestly from here it would have seemed that was the plan all along

No, i think that the Russians really believed it would be a steam-roller operation, three days to the Polish border, a week at the outside. I reckon that they fell victim to believing their own publicity.

Fascists like Putin rely on a policy of feeding their public, and the world at large, with a constant stream of lies. The trouble with such disdain for the truth is that eventually, they tend to forget that they themselves do need to keep track of reality, in order to control what’s really going on. But all such tyrants seem to end up fervently believing their own lies.

Russia is losing so much equipment in Ukraine that weapons monitors can’t keep up

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-ukraine-military-equipment-losses-b2046501.html

see here’s the thing, if you’re a chaos agent and you actually don’t care all that much about Mother Russia, then fucking up a generation of people in a big country and “losing” a whole heap of weapons into the region would be pretty up there

  • Zelenskiy addressed the Australian Parliament on Thursday and asked for the Australian-made, four-wheel-drive vehicles

This guy, hey? Going to a different Parliament every day asking for weapons and such. And getting them, no questions asked. Building up quite the stockpile…

see here’s the thing, if you’re a chaos agent and you actually don’t care all that much about Cousin Ukraine, then fucking up a generation of people in a big country and “losing” a whole heap of weapons into the region would be pretty up there

Reply Quote

Date: 2/04/2022 00:21:49
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1867849
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

‘Huge’ battles being fought near Kyiv, mayor says

The mayor of Kyiv, Vitaliy Klitschko, said “huge” battles are being fought to the north and east of Ukraine’s capital, Reuters reports.

Klitschko issued a warning to residents who have fled the city:

The risk of dying (in Kyiv) is pretty high, and that’s why my advice to anyone who wants to come back is: Please, take a little bit more time.

Kyiv’s regional governor said earlier today that Russian forces were pulling back in some areas around the capital but strengthening its positions in others.

It comes after an adviser to President Zelenskiy, Oleksiy Arestovych, said Ukrainian forces are pushing back Russian troops north-east and north-west of Kyiv.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/04/2022 00:27:36
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1867851
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

What I’ve been saying for some time about these little men:

Dictators like Putin surround themselves with liars and propaganda. That leads to very bad decisions

Robert Reich

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/apr/01/vladimir-putin-ukraine-truth-deniers-bad-decisions

Reply Quote

Date: 2/04/2022 00:51:37
From: dv
ID: 1867856
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Looking as though Ukraine will win but the cost is horrific.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/04/2022 00:57:17
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1867860
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


Looking as though Ukraine will win but the cost is horrific.

Tue enough.

They have to win, I’m hoping the Western powers-that-be realise that by now.

But inevitably the cost will be horrific.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/04/2022 01:02:12
From: dv
ID: 1867865
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


dv said:

Looking as though Ukraine will win but the cost is horrific.

Tue enough.

They have to win, I’m hoping the Western powers-that-be realise that by now.

But inevitably the cost will be horrific.

I still don’t know why goods are not being delivered to Mariupol via the sea. Do the Russians have control of the sea of Azov now?

Reply Quote

Date: 2/04/2022 01:04:41
From: dv
ID: 1867867
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

London (CNN Business)Vladimir Putin’s deadline has come and gone and Russian natural gas is still flowing to Europe.

The Russian president delivered an ultimatum Thursday to “unfriendly” nations to pay for their energy in rubles starting April 1 or risk being cut off from vital supplies. Was that a bluff?

It’s too early to say, but Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said Friday that Russia would not turn off gas supplies to Europe immediately.

Putin’s high-stakes threat has sent shockwaves through Europe, which cannot keep its economy running for long without Russian energy. Moscow sent a clear signal that it could at some point reduce natural gas flows — perhaps to deter or respond to even tougher Western sanctions over the war in Ukraine.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/04/01/business/russia-gas-ruble-ultimatum-explainer/index.html

Bluff called.
He’s not in a position to do without Russia’s few remaining streams of income.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/04/2022 01:11:47
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1867871
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


Bubblecar said:

dv said:

Looking as though Ukraine will win but the cost is horrific.

Tue enough.

They have to win, I’m hoping the Western powers-that-be realise that by now.

But inevitably the cost will be horrific.

I still don’t know why goods are not being delivered to Mariupol via the sea. Do the Russians have control of the sea of Azov now?

Supposed to be Russia’s strategic aim for this target. They have control of Berdyansk.

Presumably it’s just too dangerous for anyone to use the port.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/04/2022 01:17:26
From: dv
ID: 1867873
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

The US and its allies have been weighing how the West could provide Ukraine with alternative security guarantees should it forgo its NATO membership bid as a concession to Russia to end the war, multiple sources familiar with the matter tell CNN.

The discussions, which have included the Ukrainians directly, are in very early phases because it is not clear to US, Western and Ukrainian officials that the Russian negotiations are anything more than a smokescreen.

But it is unlikely, they noted, that the US and its allies will ultimately offer Ukraine the kinds of legally binding protections it is requesting.

In peace talks with Russia in Istanbul this week, Ukrainian negotiators proposed that Ukraine might be willing to commit to neutrality when it comes to NATO. But at the same time, they want Western countries, including the US and UK, to guarantee via ratified treaties that they would protect Ukraine should Russia invade again in the future.

Such an agreement would mirror NATO’s Article V, which states that an attack on one member of the alliance is an attack on all members. A main impetus for Russia’s invasion was a desire to prevent Ukraine from joining NATO; it’s unclear whether another collective security agreement would be any more palatable to Moscow.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/04/01/politics/ukraine-security-guarantee-discussions/index.html

Reply Quote

Date: 2/04/2022 01:22:50
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1867877
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Cousin Olga and family in Lviv were frightened by the sounds of the recent strikes in and around the city.

They’ve vowed to stay, come what may.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/04/2022 01:26:56
From: dv
ID: 1867878
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


Cousin Olga and family in Lviv were frightened by the sounds of the recent strikes in and around the city.

They’ve vowed to stay, come what may.

Brave

Reply Quote

Date: 2/04/2022 01:40:01
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1867881
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Ukrainians clear Russian mines by kicking them off the road.

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarReports/comments/ttq9nw/extreme_mine_clearing_tactics_ukrainian_soldiers/

Reply Quote

Date: 2/04/2022 01:40:54
From: dv
ID: 1867882
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


Ukrainians clear Russian mines by kicking them off the road.

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarReports/comments/ttq9nw/extreme_mine_clearing_tactics_ukrainian_soldiers/

Damn

Reply Quote

Date: 2/04/2022 04:47:54
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1867893
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Ukraine recaptures town of Bucha near Kyiv, mayor says

From CNN’s Hande Atay Alam and Josh Pennington

Ukraine has recaptured the town of Bucha near the capital of Kyiv Thursday, according to Bucha’s Mayor Anatolii Fedoruk.

“Today on March 31, our town has been liberated from the Russian orcs, the Russian occupiers by our Ukrainian Armed Forces,” Fedoruk said in a video in front of Bucha’s city hall that was published on Friday.
A number of Ukrainian officials have been referring to Russian forces as “orcs” — the evil, monstrous army in J. R. R. Tolkien’s “The Lord of the Rings.”

“This day constitutes a day of joy and victory of our Armed Forces of Ukraine. And we expect such victories throughout all of Ukraine,” Fedoruk added.

CNN Live

Reply Quote

Date: 2/04/2022 04:56:05
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1867895
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

> This day constitutes a day of joy and victory of our Armed Forces of Ukraine. And we expect such victories throughout all of Ukraine.

Sputters.

Well, with in excess of 1.8 billion dollars of US weapons poured into the Ukraine recently what do you expect?

Reply Quote

Date: 2/04/2022 04:57:03
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1867896
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bump for bubblecar in chat.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/04/2022 06:26:27
From: roughbarked
ID: 1867897
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Russian President Vladimir Putin’s defence of conservative Christian values against the liberal West has earned him a slew of international supporters over the last decade.

>
So what are the Christian values involved in destroying a peaceful neighbouring country?

Reply Quote

Date: 2/04/2022 07:09:26
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1867900
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

roughbarked said:


Russian President Vladimir Putin’s defence of conservative Christian values against the liberal West has earned him a slew of international supporters over the last decade.

>
So what are the Christian values involved in destroying a peaceful neighbouring country?

If they wear two different types of fabric, then the bible says it’s all good.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/04/2022 07:11:43
From: roughbarked
ID: 1867901
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:


roughbarked said:

Russian President Vladimir Putin’s defence of conservative Christian values against the liberal West has earned him a slew of international supporters over the last decade.

>
So what are the Christian values involved in destroying a peaceful neighbouring country?

If they wear two different types of fabric, then the bible says it’s all good.

and they call it the good book?

Reply Quote

Date: 2/04/2022 07:35:21
From: roughbarked
ID: 1867902
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

mollwollfumble said:


> This day constitutes a day of joy and victory of our Armed Forces of Ukraine. And we expect such victories throughout all of Ukraine.

Sputters.

Well, with in excess of 1.8 billion dollars of US weapons poured into the Ukraine recently what do you expect?

I’m not cognizant of all the facts here. How much of this aid has been destroyed by Russian missiles before it can be used by Ukraine?

Reply Quote

Date: 2/04/2022 08:16:41
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1867907
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

roughbarked said:


Russian President Vladimir Putin’s defence of conservative Christian values against the liberal West has earned him a slew of international supporters over the last decade.

>
So what are the Christian values involved in destroying a peaceful neighbouring country?

What are the “conservative Christian values” that he has defended?

Reply Quote

Date: 2/04/2022 08:48:09
From: roughbarked
ID: 1867909
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

The Rev Dodgson said:


roughbarked said:

Russian President Vladimir Putin’s defence of conservative Christian values against the liberal West has earned him a slew of international supporters over the last decade.

>
So what are the Christian values involved in destroying a peaceful neighbouring country?

What are the “conservative Christian values” that he has defended?

That’s another good question.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-02/putin-s-supporters-in-united-states-europe/100944412

Reply Quote

Date: 2/04/2022 10:27:15
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1867921
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

The Rev Dodgson said:


roughbarked said:

Russian President Vladimir Putin’s defence of conservative Christian values against the liberal West has earned him a slew of international supporters over the last decade.

>
So what are the Christian values involved in destroying a peaceful neighbouring country?

What are the “conservative Christian values” that he has defended?

For someone who does so much for conservative Christian values, he didn’t mind serving in the Communist KGB when it was the hip thing to do.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/04/2022 10:34:33
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1867925
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

roughbarked said:

Russian President Vladimir Putin’s defence of conservative Christian values against the liberal West has earned him a slew of international supporters over the last decade.

>
So what are the Christian values involved in destroying a peaceful neighbouring country?

What are the “conservative Christian values” that he has defended?

For someone who does so much for conservative Christian values, he didn’t mind serving in the Communist KGB when it was the hip thing to do.

I’m not sure that protecting the market owners at the expense of the people using the market would have gone down that well with JC either.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/04/2022 11:30:22
From: party_pants
ID: 1867943
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

The Rev Dodgson said:


roughbarked said:

Russian President Vladimir Putin’s defence of conservative Christian values against the liberal West has earned him a slew of international supporters over the last decade.

>
So what are the Christian values involved in destroying a peaceful neighbouring country?

What are the “conservative Christian values” that he has defended?

Dunno. But this rather seem to me like an argument against “conservative Christian values” in general, rather than an argument that favours Putin.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/04/2022 12:21:07
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1867971
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


Aussie Bushmasters, soon heading for Ukraine. Made in Bendigo.


I’d suggest we send them the two front ones and keep the other two for ourselves.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/04/2022 12:27:40
From: Tamb
ID: 1867973
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Peak Warming Man said:


Bubblecar said:

Aussie Bushmasters, soon heading for Ukraine. Made in Bendigo.


I’d suggest we send them the two front ones and keep the other two for ourselves.

https://www.drive.com.au/caradvice/what-is-a-bushmaster-we-drive-the-australian-built-armoured-vehicle/
Reply Quote

Date: 2/04/2022 14:47:24
From: dv
ID: 1868040
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

After weeks of literally digging in at the Antonov Airport in Hostomel, just 18 miles (more 28 kilometers) northwest from the Ukrainian capital, Russian forces there have suddenly disappeared, new satellite images show.

On Thursday, an official with the US Department of Defense told CNN they believed that the Russian military had likely left the airport. The new satellite images, taken on Thursday from Maxar Technologies, confirm they have.

Previous satellite images showed that, around military vehicles and artillery positions, the Russians had constructed protective earthen berms. Now, just the berms remain.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/04/2022 14:49:06
From: party_pants
ID: 1868041
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


After weeks of literally digging in at the Antonov Airport in Hostomel, just 18 miles (more 28 kilometers) northwest from the Ukrainian capital, Russian forces there have suddenly disappeared, new satellite images show.

On Thursday, an official with the US Department of Defense told CNN they believed that the Russian military had likely left the airport. The new satellite images, taken on Thursday from Maxar Technologies, confirm they have.

Previous satellite images showed that, around military vehicles and artillery positions, the Russians had constructed protective earthen berms. Now, just the berms remain.

nice berm!

Reply Quote

Date: 2/04/2022 14:49:28
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1868042
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


After weeks of literally digging in at the Antonov Airport in Hostomel, just 18 miles (more 28 kilometers) northwest from the Ukrainian capital, Russian forces there have suddenly disappeared, new satellite images show.

On Thursday, an official with the US Department of Defense told CNN they believed that the Russian military had likely left the airport. The new satellite images, taken on Thursday from Maxar Technologies, confirm they have.

Previous satellite images showed that, around military vehicles and artillery positions, the Russians had constructed protective earthen berms. Now, just the berms remain.

berms, sound like Inspector Clouseau.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/04/2022 14:50:01
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1868043
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Reuters: The United States will work with allies to transfer Soviet-made tanks to Ukraine to bolster its defences in the Donbas region, the New York Times reported on Friday, citing a US official.

The transfers, requested by Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy, would begin soon, the unnamed official said, according to the Times. The official declined to say how many tanks would be sent or from which countries they would come, the paper said.

The Pentagon declined to comment to Reuters. The White House did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

The tanks would allow Ukraine to conduct long-range artillery strikes on Russian targets in the Donbas region of southeastern Ukraine bordering Russia, the official said, according to the Times.

It marks the first time in the war that the United States has helped transfer tanks, the newspaper said.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/04/2022 14:51:27
From: roughbarked
ID: 1868046
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

ChrispenEvan said:


dv said:

After weeks of literally digging in at the Antonov Airport in Hostomel, just 18 miles (more 28 kilometers) northwest from the Ukrainian capital, Russian forces there have suddenly disappeared, new satellite images show.

On Thursday, an official with the US Department of Defense told CNN they believed that the Russian military had likely left the airport. The new satellite images, taken on Thursday from Maxar Technologies, confirm they have.

Previous satellite images showed that, around military vehicles and artillery positions, the Russians had constructed protective earthen berms. Now, just the berms remain.

berms, sound like Inspector Clouseau.

It does.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/04/2022 14:54:19
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1868047
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Zelenskiy said that Russia was trying to conscript troops from Crimea as it began its annual conscription drive. But he said that being drafted to fight in Ukraine was “guaranteed death for many young guys” and warned their families: “We don’t need more dead people here. Save your children so they do not become villains. Don’t send them.”

Reply Quote

Date: 2/04/2022 20:58:21
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1868184
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

ah who knows

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is warning dangers remain even in areas of the country where Russian troops have withdrawn, accusing the invaders of laying mines in houses, equipment and even the bodies of the dead.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/04/2022 00:29:59
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1868245
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Russians think they’re hiding but, they’re not hiding.

Seems all these villages have their dedicated drones keeping track of what’s going on.

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarReports/comments/tuhry8/brand_new_video_taken_from_a_drone_showing/

Reply Quote

Date: 3/04/2022 00:45:06
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1868248
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Heavy battles’ ahead in south and east, says Ukraine

Heavy battles are coming up in Ukraine’s eastern and southern regions and for the besieged city of Mariupol in particular, the Ukrainian presidential adviser Oleksiy Arestovych has said.

Speaking on national television, Arestovych said Ukrainian troops around Kyiv had retaken more than 30 towns or villages in the region and were holding the front line against Russian forces in the east.

“Let us have no illusions – there are still heavy battles ahead for the south, for Mariupol, for the east of Ukraine,” he said.

The main points made by Arestovych were:

- Ukrainian troops have retaken over 30 settlements in Kyiv region from Russian forces
- Ukrainian troops are holding the front line in the east
- Heavy battles are coming for the east, the south and for Mariupol

Reply Quote

Date: 3/04/2022 01:12:41
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1868257
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Russians add to their long list of war crimes, with innumerable booby traps for unwary civilians:

Ukraine says it has recaptured city of Brovary but warns of Russian mines

Key city east of Kyiv has been liberated, says mayor, as Zelenskiy says Russians withdrawing ‘slowly but noticeably’

…The latest success, 12 miles east of Kyiv, came as Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, warned that Russian forces were creating “a complete disaster” by leaving mines on homes and corpses as they retreated.

Russia has continued withdrawing some of its ground forces from areas around the capital after saying earlier this week it would reduce military activity near the Ukrainian capital and the northern city of Chernihiv.

But in his regular address in the early hours of Saturday, Zelenskiy said the satellite towns around the city were being indiscriminately booby-trapped.

He said: “They are mining the whole territory. They are mining homes, mining equipment, even the bodies of people who were killed. There are a lot of trip wires, a lot of other dangers.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/02/ukraine-says-it-has-recaptured-city-of-brovary-but-warns-of-russian-mines

Reply Quote

Date: 3/04/2022 01:14:32
From: dv
ID: 1868258
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/04/02/europe/cold-calling-ukraine-russia-iron-curtain-intl-hnk-dst/index.html

(CNN)Marija Stonyte picks up her phone and anxiously dials in a number. After a couple of rings, a woman picks up.

“I’m calling to tell you a very important message. I don’t know if you know a lot about what is actually happening right now in Ukraine,” Stonyte says in the call last month, her voice trembling as her 1-year-old daughter babbles in the background.
There’s silence on the other end of the line.
“The real truth is that it is a terrible invasion.”

Reply Quote

Date: 3/04/2022 01:16:32
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1868259
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


https://edition.cnn.com/2022/04/02/europe/cold-calling-ukraine-russia-iron-curtain-intl-hnk-dst/index.html

(CNN)Marija Stonyte picks up her phone and anxiously dials in a number. After a couple of rings, a woman picks up.

“I’m calling to tell you a very important message. I don’t know if you know a lot about what is actually happening right now in Ukraine,” Stonyte says in the call last month, her voice trembling as her 1-year-old daughter babbles in the background.
There’s silence on the other end of the line.
“The real truth is that it is a terrible invasion.”

At least it’s something they can do.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/04/2022 01:23:36
From: dv
ID: 1868260
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

VZ saying they need a thousand antitank weapons a day…
If they get that, then unless they have a poor success rate, they should be able to destroy every single tank at Russia’s disposal within a month…

Reply Quote

Date: 3/04/2022 01:32:12
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1868262
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


VZ saying they need a thousand antitank weapons a day…
If they get that, then unless they have a poor success rate, they should be able to destroy every single tank at Russia’s disposal within a month…

They need some for training and destruction of Russian equipment that they don’t want to keep.

Plus, they sometimes miss.

So make it at least ten anti-tank ammo for every tank destruction.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/04/2022 02:12:14
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1868271
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

The Russian military’s one-off T-80UM2 experimental main battle tank has been knocked out during recent fighting in Ukraine, marking one of the more unusual kills attributed to the country’s defenders, who continue to disrupt the Kremlin’s invasion plans. The fact that this unique fighting vehicle was even participating in combat in Ukraine is somewhat surprising, but it would not be the first example of new or experimental Russian weapons systems being deployed in the campaign.

The team of researchers at the Oryx blog, who have been compiling photo and video evidence of materiel losses on both sides of the conflict, identified the wreckage of the T-80UM2 and stated that it was destroyed on March 17, or that its remains were uncovered on this date. The tank is rumored to have been knocked out in Sumy Oblast, in northeastern Ukraine, apparently in the vicinity of the town of Trostyanets.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/44855/russias-only-prototype-t-80um2-tank-was-destroyed-in-ukraine

Reply Quote

Date: 3/04/2022 02:10:10
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1868275
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:

so it’s a proxy war after all

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/china-cyberattack-ukraine-z9gfkbmgf

China staged a huge cyberattack on Ukraine’s military and nuclear facilities in the build-up to Russia’s invasion, according to intelligence memos obtained by The Times. More than 600 websites belonging to the defence ministry in Kyiv and other institutions suffered thousands of hacking attempts which were co-ordinated by the Chinese government, according to Ukraine’s security service, the SBU. The spy agency revealed that, in an apparent sign of complicity in the invasion, Chinese attacks started before the end of the Winter Olympics and peaked on February 23, the day before Russian troops and tanks crossed the border.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/04/2022 05:04:01
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1868280
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Now Here’s Something Fun And Exciting

https://inews.co.uk/news/russia-severs-links-with-western-space-agencies-ending-international-space-station-co-operation-1554083?ico=related_stories

Russia is severing its links with space agencies in the West over the Ukraine conflict and ending cooperation on the International Space Station (ISS), its space agency chief has said. Roscosmos boss Dmitry Rogozin said it will no longer work with Western partners including Nasa and the European Space Agency on the joint space laboratory after their nations’ refusals to lift sanctions on Russia.

Despite the tensions, a US astronaut and two Russian cosmonauts landed safely in Kazakhstan on Wednesday after leaving the space station aboard the same capsule. However, the European Space Agency said last month it was suspending cooperation with Roscosmos over the ExoMars rover mission to search for signs of life on the surface of Mars.

Nasa and the European Space Agency have not yet responded to Mr Rogozin’s comments on Saturday.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/04/2022 08:07:24
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1868289
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Valiant Australian Fossil Fuel Defenders Invoke Glorious Blaze Defence Akin To Recent War Stories

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-03/inside-eraring-power-station-coal-electricity/100953694

Reply Quote

Date: 3/04/2022 08:17:39
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1868291
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:


Valiant Australian Fossil Fuel Defenders Invoke Glorious Blaze Defence Akin To Recent War Stories

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-03/inside-eraring-power-station-coal-electricity/100953694


This Is How The climate change has Shown Young Power station workers What It Feels Like To Lose Some Of Their Privilege

Reply Quote

Date: 3/04/2022 08:33:06
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1868293
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:


Valiant Australian Fossil Fuel Defenders Invoke Glorious Blaze Defence Akin To Recent War Stories

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-03/inside-eraring-power-station-coal-electricity/100953694


‘They’ll have to drag me out kicking and screaming.’

Mmm…OK!

Reply Quote

Date: 3/04/2022 11:10:22
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1868326
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

An informative video on various Russian equipment and how it’s made & used.

Are Tanks Obsolete? The Future of Warfare

Reply Quote

Date: 3/04/2022 12:01:06
From: Ogmog
ID: 1868360
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

roughbarked said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

roughbarked said:

Russian President Vladimir Putin’s defence of conservative Christian values against the liberal West has earned him a slew of international supporters over the last decade.

>
So what are the Christian values involved in destroying a peaceful neighbouring country?

What are the “conservative Christian values” that he has defended?

That’s another good question.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-02/putin-s-supporters-in-united-states-europe/100944412

Prehaps their favourite trope about
A Mandate Banning Late-Term Abortions…?

Reply Quote

Date: 3/04/2022 12:10:10
From: Ogmog
ID: 1868366
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

…or perhaps the one concerning ‘The Sanctity of LIFE’…?

Reply Quote

Date: 3/04/2022 12:16:49
From: Ogmog
ID: 1868368
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:

There has been unofficial hints by Ukrainian officials that this attack was not carried out by Ukraine forces.

This presents two possibilities:

1. The Ukraine military is indeed on the front foot and is showing Russia how things are done, while leaving the question open as to who actually did it,

or

2. This is a Russian false flag operation to allow the continuation of the shelling of the Ukrainian cities.

I really can’t see it being option 2, because Russia needs no excuse to continue their current tactics, and punching yourself in the dick while claiming your opponent has a bigger dick isn’t really going to achieve much.

My money’s on #2

A False RED Flag Attack

Reply Quote

Date: 3/04/2022 12:19:21
From: party_pants
ID: 1868369
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

A bit grim. This bloke is predicting a mass famine within 18 months. The war in Ukraine being one of the big drivers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHRKdHaOrXs (around 8 minutes)

Not directly related to the war, but we don’t have a world geopolitics thread, so I’ll post it here.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/04/2022 12:22:10
From: party_pants
ID: 1868371
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Ogmog said:


Dark Orange said:

There has been unofficial hints by Ukrainian officials that this attack was not carried out by Ukraine forces.

This presents two possibilities:

1. The Ukraine military is indeed on the front foot and is showing Russia how things are done, while leaving the question open as to who actually did it,

or

2. This is a Russian false flag operation to allow the continuation of the shelling of the Ukrainian cities.

I really can’t see it being option 2, because Russia needs no excuse to continue their current tactics, and punching yourself in the dick while claiming your opponent has a bigger dick isn’t really going to achieve much.

My money’s on #2

A False RED Flag Attack

Option 3. It is the result of mutiny or insurrection within Russia to sabotage the war effort.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/04/2022 12:24:17
From: roughbarked
ID: 1868372
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

party_pants said:


Ogmog said:

Dark Orange said:

There has been unofficial hints by Ukrainian officials that this attack was not carried out by Ukraine forces.

This presents two possibilities:

1. The Ukraine military is indeed on the front foot and is showing Russia how things are done, while leaving the question open as to who actually did it,

or

2. This is a Russian false flag operation to allow the continuation of the shelling of the Ukrainian cities.

I really can’t see it being option 2, because Russia needs no excuse to continue their current tactics, and punching yourself in the dick while claiming your opponent has a bigger dick isn’t really going to achieve much.

My money’s on #2

A False RED Flag Attack

Option 3. It is the result of mutiny or insurrection within Russia to sabotage the war effort.

I’d pick option 3.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/04/2022 12:25:28
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1868374
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

party_pants said:


Ogmog said:

Dark Orange said:

There has been unofficial hints by Ukrainian officials that this attack was not carried out by Ukraine forces.

This presents two possibilities:

1. The Ukraine military is indeed on the front foot and is showing Russia how things are done, while leaving the question open as to who actually did it,

or

2. This is a Russian false flag operation to allow the continuation of the shelling of the Ukrainian cities.

I really can’t see it being option 2, because Russia needs no excuse to continue their current tactics, and punching yourself in the dick while claiming your opponent has a bigger dick isn’t really going to achieve much.

My money’s on #2

A False RED Flag Attack

Option 3. It is the result of mutiny or insurrection within Russia to sabotage the war effort.

Option 4. Russian helicopter crews flying drunk again, thinking they were attacking a Ukrainian facility. (Really, don’t discount this entirely.)

Reply Quote

Date: 3/04/2022 12:39:18
From: roughbarked
ID: 1868376
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


party_pants said:

Ogmog said:

My money’s on #2

A False RED Flag Attack

Option 3. It is the result of mutiny or insurrection within Russia to sabotage the war effort.

Option 4. Russian helicopter crews flying drunk again, thinking they were attacking a Ukrainian facility. (Really, don’t discount this entirely.)

Maybe full of Meth and didn’t know where they were?

Reply Quote

Date: 3/04/2022 12:46:03
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1868378
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

roughbarked said:


captain_spalding said:

party_pants said:

Option 3. It is the result of mutiny or insurrection within Russia to sabotage the war effort.

Option 4. Russian helicopter crews flying drunk again, thinking they were attacking a Ukrainian facility. (Really, don’t discount this entirely.)

Maybe full of Meth and didn’t know where they were?

Vodka, more likely.

Vodka is much more readily available, a lot cheaper, and its open use is socially acceptable.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/04/2022 13:11:19
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1868387
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

roughbarked said:


party_pants said:

Ogmog said:

My money’s on #2

A False RED Flag Attack

Option 3. It is the result of mutiny or insurrection within Russia to sabotage the war effort.

I’d pick option 3.

I still think it’s option 1.
It is a strategic target, and sends a message to Russia that they shouldn’t think they are safe just because they are on their side of the imaginary line.

And they can say it was a “Special Operation” rather than an act of war.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/04/2022 13:12:04
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1868390
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


roughbarked said:

captain_spalding said:

Option 4. Russian helicopter crews flying drunk again, thinking they were attacking a Ukrainian facility. (Really, don’t discount this entirely.)

Maybe full of Meth and didn’t know where they were?

Vodka, more likely.

Vodka is much more readily available, a lot cheaper, and its open use is socially acceptable.

oh come on you fools you all know it was probably CHINA or the USSA behind this

Reply Quote

Date: 3/04/2022 13:12:52
From: roughbarked
ID: 1868391
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:


roughbarked said:

party_pants said:

Option 3. It is the result of mutiny or insurrection within Russia to sabotage the war effort.

I’d pick option 3.

I still think it’s option 1.
It is a strategic target, and sends a message to Russia that they shouldn’t think they are safe just because they are on their side of the imaginary line.

And they can say it was a “Special Operation” rather than an act of war.

I like the idea that they could and did.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/04/2022 13:13:34
From: roughbarked
ID: 1868392
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:


captain_spalding said:

roughbarked said:

Maybe full of Meth and didn’t know where they were?

Vodka, more likely.

Vodka is much more readily available, a lot cheaper, and its open use is socially acceptable.

oh come on you fools you all know it was probably CHINA or the USSA behind this

We don’t want to start a war. ;)

Reply Quote

Date: 3/04/2022 15:31:47
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1868457
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

I just learnt today that Russia is one of the least atheist countries in the world. Only 15% of Russians are atheist. As against 80% atheists in Estonia and 75% atheists in Austria.
I thought communist countries were supposed to be atheist.

World opinions.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/04/2022 15:37:53
From: party_pants
ID: 1868458
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

mollwollfumble said:


I just learnt today that Russia is one of the least atheist countries in the world. Only 15% of Russians are atheist. As against 80% atheists in Estonia and 75% atheists in Austria.
I thought communist countries were supposed to be atheist.

World opinions.

For a lover of geography, I find it hard to accept placing NZ in the Indian Ocean.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/04/2022 15:43:15
From: dv
ID: 1868459
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

mollwollfumble said:

I thought communist countries were supposed to be atheist.

Russia isn’t a communist country

Reply Quote

Date: 3/04/2022 15:49:01
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1868460
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

For those who pity the poor Russian soldiers being unwillingly forced into battle, this is a sobering and disturbing video of the aftermath of their withdrawal from the city of Bucha.

(Not pleasant viewing)

https://twitter.com/i/status/1510372750665433089

Reply Quote

Date: 3/04/2022 16:05:58
From: sibeen
ID: 1868475
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

I just love where they put New Zealand.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/04/2022 16:10:27
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1868481
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:

For those who pity the poor Russian soldiers being unwillingly forced into battle, this is a sobering and disturbing video of the aftermath of their withdrawal from the city of Bucha.

(Not pleasant viewing)

https://twitter.com/i/status/1510372750665433089

¿so they haven’t mined everywhere, or that’s not Ukraine then?

Reply Quote

Date: 3/04/2022 18:24:57
From: dv
ID: 1868522
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

https://youtu.be/RHNPA7z7taw

Latvian Defence Minister calls for the “dePutinization of the West”.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/04/2022 18:32:34
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1868529
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

There is nothing funny about war, but the irony can still bring a smile to your face.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/04/01/vladimir-putin-running-missiles-parts-made-ukraine/

“The engines for all Russian helicopters, ships and cruise missiles and a substantial portion of fighter jet engines and ground-to-air missile and tank components are made in Ukrainian factories”

Reply Quote

Date: 3/04/2022 18:43:17
From: roughbarked
ID: 1868530
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:

There is nothing funny about war, but the irony can still bring a smile to your face.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/04/01/vladimir-putin-running-missiles-parts-made-ukraine/

“The engines for all Russian helicopters, ships and cruise missiles and a substantial portion of fighter jet engines and ground-to-air missile and tank components are made in Ukrainian factories”

So he’s biting off the hand that feeds him?

Reply Quote

Date: 3/04/2022 18:43:29
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1868531
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:

https://youtu.be/RHNPA7z7taw

Latvian Defence Minister calls for the “dePutinization of the West”.

so how are they proposing to shut down the Republican party

Reply Quote

Date: 3/04/2022 18:51:39
From: roughbarked
ID: 1868535
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:

dv said:

https://youtu.be/RHNPA7z7taw

Latvian Defence Minister calls for the “dePutinization of the West”.

so how are they proposing to shut down the Republican party

Put Trump in the clink.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/04/2022 18:51:58
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1868537
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

roughbarked said:

Dark Orange said:

There is nothing funny about war, but the irony can still bring a smile to your face.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/04/01/vladimir-putin-running-missiles-parts-made-ukraine/

“The engines for all Russian helicopters, ships and cruise missiles and a substantial portion of fighter jet engines and ground-to-air missile and tank components are made in Ukrainian factories”

So he’s biting off the hand that feeds him?

we think much the opposite, it makes sense if your supply line is wherever, that if you wanted to take something, you take wherever

the fact that they weren’t successful is a different matter

it’s all right, there’s another big and fat country that many other places get supplies from, and there’s a lot of discontent and willingness to try to rein that supplier in as well

Reply Quote

Date: 3/04/2022 19:21:52
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1868544
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Oh dear…

“If the Americans asked us to store U.S. nuclear weapons in Poland, we would be open to it,” said Jaroslaw Kaczynski, deputy prime minister and the leader of Poland’s ruling Law and Justice party.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/04/2022 20:00:19
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1868556
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:

Oh dear…

“If the Americans asked us to store U.S. nuclear weapons in Poland, we would be open to it,” said Jaroslaw Kaczynski, deputy prime minister and the leader of Poland’s ruling Law and Justice party.

see this is literally just the beginning

Reply Quote

Date: 3/04/2022 20:06:11
From: party_pants
ID: 1868559
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:

Oh dear…

“If the Americans asked us to store U.S. nuclear weapons in Poland, we would be open to it,” said Jaroslaw Kaczynski, deputy prime minister and the leader of Poland’s ruling Law and Justice party.

They are stored in Germany, and Germany have an agreement that German aircraft can carry and drop them if necessary.

So why not Poland?

Reply Quote

Date: 3/04/2022 20:08:24
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1868560
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Reply Quote

Date: 3/04/2022 21:22:18
From: transition
ID: 1868573
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:



chuckle

yeah but he could be 25 years old

Reply Quote

Date: 4/04/2022 00:54:12
From: sibeen
ID: 1868631
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

EU Commission president Ursula von der Leyen is “appalled” by reports of “unspeakable horrors” in areas where Russia has withdrawn, and said an independent investigation is urgently needed.

How can someone so high up be so damn clueless. They’re not “unspeakable horrors”; they should be screamed about at the top of every bodies lungs. They should be headlines with associated pictures. They should be talked about wherever people gather.

Unspeakable …you idiot.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/04/2022 13:07:33
From: dv
ID: 1868755
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Russia is requesting the UN Security Council meet to discuss what it calls a “provocation by Ukrainian radicals” in the town of Bucha after Kyiv accused Russian troops of killing civilians there.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-04/ukraine-russia-war-live-updates-kyiv-zelenskyy-putin-mariupol/100963200

Reply Quote

Date: 4/04/2022 13:16:08
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1868759
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


Russia is requesting the UN Security Council meet to discuss what it calls a “provocation by Ukrainian radicals” in the town of Bucha after Kyiv accused Russian troops of killing civilians there.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-04/ukraine-russia-war-live-updates-kyiv-zelenskyy-putin-mariupol/100963200

Should be comedy gold.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/04/2022 13:19:32
From: Cymek
ID: 1868762
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


dv said:

Russia is requesting the UN Security Council meet to discuss what it calls a “provocation by Ukrainian radicals” in the town of Bucha after Kyiv accused Russian troops of killing civilians there.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-04/ukraine-russia-war-live-updates-kyiv-zelenskyy-putin-mariupol/100963200

Should be comedy gold.

Were the Russian solders ordered to act the way they are or are many of them particularly nasty individuals or more likely a combination.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/04/2022 13:30:31
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1868767
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Cymek said:


captain_spalding said:

dv said:

Russia is requesting the UN Security Council meet to discuss what it calls a “provocation by Ukrainian radicals” in the town of Bucha after Kyiv accused Russian troops of killing civilians there.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-04/ukraine-russia-war-live-updates-kyiv-zelenskyy-putin-mariupol/100963200

Should be comedy gold.

Were the Russian solders ordered to act the way they are or are many of them particularly nasty individuals or more likely a combination.

clearly it was a false flag massacre

Reply Quote

Date: 4/04/2022 13:32:21
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1868768
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

> Russia is requesting the UN Security Council meet to discuss what it calls a “provocation by Ukrainian radicals” in the town of Bucha after Kyiv accused Russian troops of killing civilians there.

Yep. Here we have the US “false flag operation”.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/04/2022 13:33:24
From: dv
ID: 1868769
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

mollwollfumble said:


> Russia is requesting the UN Security Council meet to discuss what it calls a “provocation by Ukrainian radicals” in the town of Bucha after Kyiv accused Russian troops of killing civilians there.

Yep. Here we have the US “false flag operation”.

Rossbot rossbot
What ya gonna do?
What ya gonna do when they come for you?

Reply Quote

Date: 4/04/2022 13:37:41
From: Cymek
ID: 1868770
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

mollwollfumble said:


> Russia is requesting the UN Security Council meet to discuss what it calls a “provocation by Ukrainian radicals” in the town of Bucha after Kyiv accused Russian troops of killing civilians there.

Yep. Here we have the US “false flag operation”.

I don’t suppose you’d know if you were a Russian sleeper agent, you being pro Putin might be an indicator.

Lets try something, get another person to say this phrase “gosh that Italian family at the next table sure is quiet”

Reply Quote

Date: 4/04/2022 13:44:48
From: dv
ID: 1868771
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Reply Quote

Date: 4/04/2022 13:48:19
From: Cymek
ID: 1868774
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:



That’s almost true isn’t it

Reply Quote

Date: 4/04/2022 18:29:58
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1868872
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

I see that Russian foreign minister Sergey Lavrov says that ‘the operation (in Ukraine) is going to plan’.

Moscow, February 2022:

“So, here’s the plan, folks: we go into Ukraine, after we’ve told our troops any thing but the truth about where they’re going or why, we lose more soldiers there in a month than we lost in all the time we were in Afghanistan, get a shitload of our helicopters, tanks and other vehicles blasted to smithereens, discover that our forces leaders have been lying to us about their efficiency levels and that the services are rather less effective than the average street gang, have to import ice-cream vans and mini-buses from day-care centres in to the war to make up for shortages of vehicles, let our troops engage in indiscriminate shelling of civilians, looting, and wholesale murder so that we stain the honour of every Russian from this point onward, forever’.

‘Whaddaya think? Can we make this work, or what?’

Reply Quote

Date: 4/04/2022 18:48:29
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1868874
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


I see that Russian foreign minister Sergey Lavrov says that ‘the operation (in Ukraine) is going to plan’.

Moscow, February 2022:

“So, here’s the plan, folks: we go into Ukraine, after we’ve told our troops any thing but the truth about where they’re going or why, we lose more soldiers there in a month than we lost in all the time we were in Afghanistan, get a shitload of our helicopters, tanks and other vehicles blasted to smithereens, discover that our forces leaders have been lying to us about their efficiency levels and that the services are rather less effective than the average street gang, have to import ice-cream vans and mini-buses from day-care centres in to the war to make up for shortages of vehicles, let our troops engage in indiscriminate shelling of civilians, looting, and wholesale murder so that we stain the honour of every Russian from this point onward, forever’.

‘Whaddaya think? Can we make this work, or what?’

I wonder if Lavrov himself will be on the list of war criminals, since he’s already had honours rescinded for violating international law.

He’ll then find himself in the amusing situation of a foreign minister who can’t visit any foreign countries without being arrested.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/04/2022 20:21:53
From: sibeen
ID: 1868898
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-ukraine-unplugged-from-russia-and-joined-europes-power-grid-with-unprecedented-speed/

Engineers make the world go round :)

Reply Quote

Date: 4/04/2022 20:26:52
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1868902
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

sibeen said:


https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-ukraine-unplugged-from-russia-and-joined-europes-power-grid-with-unprecedented-speed/

Engineers make the world go round :)

https://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,,-186829,00.html

What force makes the earth rotate on its own axis? Could its rotation ever slow down?

engineers don’t get a mention. though some wacky theories do.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/04/2022 20:39:52
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1868907
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

ChrispenEvan said:


sibeen said:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-ukraine-unplugged-from-russia-and-joined-europes-power-grid-with-unprecedented-speed/

Engineers make the world go round :)

https://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,,-186829,00.html

What force makes the earth rotate on its own axis? Could its rotation ever slow down?

engineers don’t get a mention. though some wacky theories do.

OTOH, engineers with their damned tidal power stations are actually making the World slow down.

OTOH, engineers mining stuff from near the equator, and transporting it to places further from the equator are making it speed up.

So it could go either way.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/04/2022 23:31:57
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1868950
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Reply Quote

Date: 5/04/2022 01:28:46
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1868974
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Russian Remote Control Of Australian Armed Forces Years In Anticipation Of Whataboutist Needs

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-04/sas-soldier-east-timor-militia-new-zealand-witness-four-corners/100920254

David Fisher said every military conflict has “a dark stain”.

One New Zealander recounted how he had been told that one of the militiamen got up to try to flee, when the soldier Four Corners has called “Operator K” “‘arced’ him up”, or shot him. Four Corners has obtained 11 NZ SAS witness statements that were never heard in court, in which some say Operator K “lost it” after the battle and punched and kicked the bodies. The incident prompted an NZ SAS officer to warn his soldiers against emulating the “cowboy” approach of the Australians, who ignored his suggestion to sideline the “loose cannon” Operator K.

Reply Quote

Date: 5/04/2022 07:28:01
From: Michael V
ID: 1869000
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:



Fair, unfortunately.

Reply Quote

Date: 5/04/2022 13:18:08
From: dv
ID: 1869102
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

https://www.axios.com/lithuania-russian-gas-eu-db4fb88d-6942-47e8-8e27-448d09e3d94d.html

Lithuania becomes first EU country to cut off Russian gas

Reply Quote

Date: 5/04/2022 13:22:35
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1869104
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


https://www.axios.com/lithuania-russian-gas-eu-db4fb88d-6942-47e8-8e27-448d09e3d94d.html

Lithuania becomes first EU country to cut off Russian gas

Provocation!

Buckle up, Lithuania, yer gunna get liberated!

Reply Quote

Date: 5/04/2022 13:25:07
From: Cymek
ID: 1869106
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


dv said:

https://www.axios.com/lithuania-russian-gas-eu-db4fb88d-6942-47e8-8e27-448d09e3d94d.html

Lithuania becomes first EU country to cut off Russian gas

Provocation!

Buckle up, Lithuania, yer gunna get liberated!

The way the 2020’s are progressing by 2029 the world will be a post apocalypse nuclear wasteland populated by mutants out to kill the last humans

Reply Quote

Date: 5/04/2022 13:25:53
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1869107
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


https://www.axios.com/lithuania-russian-gas-eu-db4fb88d-6942-47e8-8e27-448d09e3d94d.html

Lithuania becomes first EU country to cut off Russian gas

Good on them.

Reply Quote

Date: 5/04/2022 13:27:57
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1869108
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


https://www.axios.com/lithuania-russian-gas-eu-db4fb88d-6942-47e8-8e27-448d09e3d94d.html

Lithuania becomes first EU country to cut off Russian gas

The Germans have made a lot of noise but is still importing Russian gas by the shed load, good God given gruntled fossil fuel.. They don’t have the port facilities to handle LNG.
Also heard and expert explaining this on the wireless the other day and he was saying part of the port facilities was heating the liquid back into gas. Surly you just need to open a valve and drop the pressure to do this, never heard of such rubbish.

Reply Quote

Date: 5/04/2022 23:47:35
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1869379
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Reply Quote

Date: 6/04/2022 00:36:56
From: dv
ID: 1869390
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SIZVN

Reply Quote

Date: 6/04/2022 00:38:40
From: sibeen
ID: 1869391
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


SIZVN

Yes, that was well done on the map.

Reply Quote

Date: 6/04/2022 00:40:51
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1869392
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


SIZVN

would you like to buy another vowel?

Reply Quote

Date: 6/04/2022 00:56:30
From: sibeen
ID: 1869393
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

sarahs mum said:


dv said:

SIZVN

would you like to buy another vowel?

Flip and reverse.

Reply Quote

Date: 6/04/2022 00:58:57
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1869394
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

sibeen said:


sarahs mum said:

dv said:

SIZVN

would you like to buy another vowel?

Flip and reverse.

ah.

Reply Quote

Date: 6/04/2022 07:26:49
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1869403
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


SIZVN

I’m really surprised at how many forumites are following my lead and quoting Pravda.

Sometimes I think I should look into the history of the Ukraine.

Starting with the year 1533. When Russia expanded into the eastern part of the Ukraine.

When I think of it, how the heck did Eastern Ukraine get given to Ukraine rather than Russia on the break-up of the Soviet Union? It doesn’t make sense.

By 1772, Russian territory included Kiev and by 1793 all of Ukraine. We’re not talking recent.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4a/Territorial_Expansion_of_Russia.svg

Probably a lot of extra history missed here.

The Crimean War. “The Crimean War was a military conflict fought from October 1853 to February 1856 in which Russia lost to an alliance of France, the Ottoman Empire, the United Kingdom and Piedmont-Sardinia. In July 1853, Russian troops occupied the Danubian Principalities (now part of Romania but then under Ottoman suzerainty). In October 1853, having obtained promises of support from France and Britain, the Ottomans declared war on Russia. Fearing an Ottoman collapse, the British and the French had their fleets enter the Black Sea on 3 January 1854.”

The Allies took the Russian territory without resistance. So in typical western fashion decided on an unnecessary and unprovoked attack on Sevastopol on the Crimean peninsula. And on Russian territory in the Baltic, Caucasus, Barents Sea, and North Pacific.

“Russia sued for peace in March 1856. France and Britain welcomed the development, owing to the conflict’s domestic popularity.”

Reply Quote

Date: 6/04/2022 07:35:10
From: roughbarked
ID: 1869405
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

mollwollfumble said:


dv said:

SIZVN

I’m really surprised at how many forumites are following my lead and quoting Pravda.

Sometimes I think I should look into the history of the Ukraine.

Starting with the year 1533. When Russia expanded into the eastern part of the Ukraine.

When I think of it, how the heck did Eastern Ukraine get given to Ukraine rather than Russia on the break-up of the Soviet Union? It doesn’t make sense.

By 1772, Russian territory included Kiev and by 1793 all of Ukraine. We’re not talking recent.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4a/Territorial_Expansion_of_Russia.svg

Probably a lot of extra history missed here.

The Crimean War. “The Crimean War was a military conflict fought from October 1853 to February 1856 in which Russia lost to an alliance of France, the Ottoman Empire, the United Kingdom and Piedmont-Sardinia. In July 1853, Russian troops occupied the Danubian Principalities (now part of Romania but then under Ottoman suzerainty). In October 1853, having obtained promises of support from France and Britain, the Ottomans declared war on Russia. Fearing an Ottoman collapse, the British and the French had their fleets enter the Black Sea on 3 January 1854.”

The Allies took the Russian territory without resistance. So in typical western fashion decided on an unnecessary and unprovoked attack on Sevastopol on the Crimean peninsula. And on Russian territory in the Baltic, Caucasus, Barents Sea, and North Pacific.

“Russia sued for peace in March 1856. France and Britain welcomed the development, owing to the conflict’s domestic popularity.”

History is in the past.

Reply Quote

Date: 6/04/2022 07:39:01
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1869406
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

roughbarked said:

mollwollfumble said:

dv said:

SIZVN

I’m really surprised at how many forumites are following my lead and quoting Pravda.

Sometimes I think I should look into the history of the Ukraine.

Starting with the year 1533. When Russia expanded into the eastern part of the Ukraine.

When I think of it, how the heck did Eastern Ukraine get given to Ukraine rather than Russia on the break-up of the Soviet Union? It doesn’t make sense.

By 1772, Russian territory included Kiev and by 1793 all of Ukraine. We’re not talking recent.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4a/Territorial_Expansion_of_Russia.svg

Probably a lot of extra history missed here.

The Crimean War. “The Crimean War was a military conflict fought from October 1853 to February 1856 in which Russia lost to an alliance of France, the Ottoman Empire, the United Kingdom and Piedmont-Sardinia. In July 1853, Russian troops occupied the Danubian Principalities (now part of Romania but then under Ottoman suzerainty). In October 1853, having obtained promises of support from France and Britain, the Ottomans declared war on Russia. Fearing an Ottoman collapse, the British and the French had their fleets enter the Black Sea on 3 January 1854.”

The Allies took the Russian territory without resistance. So in typical western fashion decided on an unnecessary and unprovoked attack on Sevastopol on the Crimean peninsula. And on Russian territory in the Baltic, Caucasus, Barents Sea, and North Pacific.

“Russia sued for peace in March 1856. France and Britain welcomed the development, owing to the conflict’s domestic popularity.”

History is in the past.

=> The Information Paradox Paradox Thread

Reply Quote

Date: 6/04/2022 07:53:47
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1869411
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Russia Allegedly Strike Welsh Paramedical Service

Reply Quote

Date: 6/04/2022 14:31:43
From: dv
ID: 1869601
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

https://youtu.be/M8xqnh7imVg

UN Security council meeting summary and paraphrasing.

Russians: It’s an unacceptable outrage that you haven’t actedbfaster on our complaints about horrific provocation by Ukrainians.

UN Gen Sec Guterres: I’m worried about wheat prices.

Zelenskyy: While Russia is on the UNSC, this body has no credibility. You’ve sat down and chatted with these butchers all through the de facto annexation of Transnistria, through the brutality in Georgia, through their violence in the Donbas and annexation of Crimea, and now they sit in this house and pontificate. You really have three options: dissolve this council, kick Russia out, or be a joke.

—-

The Presidency of the UN Sec Council rotates among the members, currently held by the British representative. During this session she repeatedly swapped hats. “Speaking now as the UK representative we call on Russia to end its brutal and illegal invasion and withdraw all forces from the whole of Ukraine. Now returning to my duties as President…”

Reply Quote

Date: 6/04/2022 14:34:06
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1869603
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

well arguably they are unifying the nations

Reply Quote

Date: 6/04/2022 14:39:27
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1869606
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Zelenskiy is right, the UN security council is worse than a waste of space.

Reply Quote

Date: 6/04/2022 14:40:06
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1869607
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Reply Quote

Date: 6/04/2022 14:42:30
From: dv
ID: 1869611
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

sarahs mum said:



In fairness it seems most of them were in the ballpark

Reply Quote

Date: 6/04/2022 14:44:28
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1869616
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

sarahs mum said:


so they mostly got it right

Reply Quote

Date: 6/04/2022 14:45:00
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1869617
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:

dv said:

sarahs mum said:


In fairness it seems most of them were in the ballpark

so they mostly got it right

and we’re super slow

Reply Quote

Date: 6/04/2022 14:45:08
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1869618
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

sarahs mum said:



I think that there may have been a degree of piss-taking there.

Reply Quote

Date: 6/04/2022 14:45:13
From: sibeen
ID: 1869619
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

sarahs mum said:



So quite a decent percentage got it right.

Reply Quote

Date: 6/04/2022 14:45:20
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1869620
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Well they more trained military personnel, and more military trainers.

They need more shoulder based launchers and more missiles for them.

Vehicle launchers and more missiles for them.

More machine guns people who know how to use them and more ammunition for them.

More tanks and armoured vehicles and ammo for the tanks and fuel etc

More radio jammers, more communication warfare.

More diplomatic and political pressure.

More social platform protesting.

More sanctions.

No fly Zones enforced.

Drones to deal with land mines….

Heaps of other stuff

Send donations, money support companies supporting Ukraine..

Reply Quote

Date: 6/04/2022 14:46:35
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1869621
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:

sarahs mum said:


so they mostly got it right

I just hope that most of them have nothing to do with the targetting of the nuclear missile force.

Reply Quote

Date: 6/04/2022 14:47:20
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1869622
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Tau.Neutrino said:


Well they more trained military personnel, and more military trainers.

They need more shoulder based launchers and more missiles for them.

Vehicle launchers and more missiles for them.

More machine guns people who know how to use them and more ammunition for them.

More tanks and armoured vehicles and ammo for the tanks and fuel etc

More radio jammers, more communication warfare.

More diplomatic and political pressure.

More social platform protesting.

More sanctions.

No fly Zones enforced.

Drones to deal with land mines….

Heaps of other stuff

Send donations, money support companies supporting Ukraine..


sung to the tune of “My Favorite Things”

Reply Quote

Date: 6/04/2022 15:01:26
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1869629
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Witty Rejoinder said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Well they more trained military personnel, and more military trainers.

They need more shoulder based launchers and more missiles for them.

Vehicle launchers and more missiles for them.

More machine guns people who know how to use them and more ammunition for them.

More tanks and armoured vehicles and ammo for the tanks and fuel etc

More radio jammers, more communication warfare.

More diplomatic and political pressure.

More social platform protesting.

More sanctions.

No fly Zones enforced.

Drones to deal with land mines….

Heaps of other stuff

Send donations, money support companies supporting Ukraine..


sung to the tune of “My Favorite Things”

Gee Witty I had no idea you were into those things

Bomb drops on buildings and many dead generals
Jet planes and soldiers, killing lots of citizens
Black AK47s and tied up Russians
These are a few of my favourite things…

Reply Quote

Date: 6/04/2022 15:04:07
From: roughbarked
ID: 1869632
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Tau.Neutrino said:


Witty Rejoinder said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Well they more trained military personnel, and more military trainers.

They need more shoulder based launchers and more missiles for them.

Vehicle launchers and more missiles for them.

More machine guns people who know how to use them and more ammunition for them.

More tanks and armoured vehicles and ammo for the tanks and fuel etc

More radio jammers, more communication warfare.

More diplomatic and political pressure.

More social platform protesting.

More sanctions.

No fly Zones enforced.

Drones to deal with land mines….

Heaps of other stuff

Send donations, money support companies supporting Ukraine..


sung to the tune of “My Favorite Things”

Gee Witty I had no idea you were into those things

Bomb drops on buildings and many dead generals
Jet planes and soldiers, killing lots of citizens
Black AK47s and tied up Russians
These are a few of my favourite things…

A mother of all bombs on pootin’s head
This all of my favourite things.

Reply Quote

Date: 6/04/2022 15:06:18
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1869635
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

roughbarked said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

sung to the tune of “My Favorite Things”

Gee Witty I had no idea you were into those things

Bomb drops on buildings and many dead generals
Jet planes and soldiers, killing lots of citizens
Black AK47s and tied up Russians
These are a few of my favourite things…

A mother of all bombs on pootin’s head
This all of my favourite things.

:)

Reply Quote

Date: 6/04/2022 16:26:31
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1869682
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Forget Putin Alina Kabaeva and come live with me, you are very beautiful and super cute, I teach you the universe and many other things.

Reply Quote

Date: 6/04/2022 19:16:30
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1869780
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

OMG.

Now Ukraine is attacking the United Nations.

Reply Quote

Date: 6/04/2022 19:25:07
From: roughbarked
ID: 1869781
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

mollwollfumble said:


OMG.

Now Ukraine is attacking the United Nations.

No. They have simply come to the same realisation that old poo tin did. That because of the way it is set up, they are ineffectual in being able to stop the old shit can from having his way with them.

Reply Quote

Date: 6/04/2022 19:28:01
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1869782
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

mollwollfumble said:


OMG.

Now Ukraine is attacking the United Nations.

Yep, they’ve got the taste for it now.
Next thing you know they’ll be rolling into Poland

Reply Quote

Date: 6/04/2022 19:33:18
From: sibeen
ID: 1869784
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Peak Warming Man said:


mollwollfumble said:

OMG.

Now Ukraine is attacking the United Nations.

Yep, they’ve got the taste for it now.
Next thing you know they’ll be rolling into Poland

For gawds sake, man; two million of them have already crossed the border. Do keep up.

Reply Quote

Date: 6/04/2022 21:03:44
From: dv
ID: 1869821
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

BERLIN — German President Frank-Walter Steinmeier Monday admitted that it was a mistake to cling to the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline project between Russia and Germany for so long.

“My holding on to Nord Stream 2 was clearly a mistake,” Steinmeier said in Berlin, according to German media. “We held on to bridges that Russia no longer believed in and that our partners warned us about.”

For years the U.S. and other allies of Germany berated Berlin over the pipeline project, arguing it would be dangerous for Ukraine and send a wrong signal to Russian President Vladimir Putin after he annexed Crimea in 2014.

https://www.politico.eu/article/german-president-admits-having-been-mistaken-on-nord-stream-2/

Reply Quote

Date: 6/04/2022 21:06:41
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1869822
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:

BERLIN — German President Frank-Walter Steinmeier Monday admitted that it was a mistake to cling to the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline project between Russia and Germany for so long.

“My holding on to Nord Stream 2 was clearly a mistake,” Steinmeier said in Berlin, according to German media. “We held on to bridges that Russia no longer believed in and that our partners warned us about.”

For years the U.S. and other allies of Germany berated Berlin over the pipeline project, arguing it would be dangerous for Ukraine and send a wrong signal to Russian President Vladimir Putin after he annexed Crimea in 2014.

https://www.politico.eu/article/german-president-admits-having-been-mistaken-on-nord-stream-2/

¿ the pro-Kremlin USSA, even them ?

Reply Quote

Date: 6/04/2022 21:14:37
From: party_pants
ID: 1869824
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


BERLIN — German President Frank-Walter Steinmeier Monday admitted that it was a mistake to cling to the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline project between Russia and Germany for so long.

“My holding on to Nord Stream 2 was clearly a mistake,” Steinmeier said in Berlin, according to German media. “We held on to bridges that Russia no longer believed in and that our partners warned us about.”

For years the U.S. and other allies of Germany berated Berlin over the pipeline project, arguing it would be dangerous for Ukraine and send a wrong signal to Russian President Vladimir Putin after he annexed Crimea in 2014.

https://www.politico.eu/article/german-president-admits-having-been-mistaken-on-nord-stream-2/

Russian gas was seen as a lesser evil than nuclear power or coal. By some political parties. Seeing as their parliament almost never has one party holding a majority and is always a coalition of some sort, these points of view hold more sway than they should.

Reply Quote

Date: 6/04/2022 23:17:28
From: dv
ID: 1869880
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Reply Quote

Date: 6/04/2022 23:21:02
From: sibeen
ID: 1869881
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:



If only wars were decided by polling.

Reply Quote

Date: 6/04/2022 23:25:48
From: dv
ID: 1869883
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

sibeen said:


dv said:


If only wars were decided by polling.

I just want to know what those 26% are smoking

Reply Quote

Date: 6/04/2022 23:30:56
From: party_pants
ID: 1869884
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


sibeen said:

dv said:


If only wars were decided by polling.

I just want to know what those 26% are smoking

It is called self-radicalisation.

Reply Quote

Date: 6/04/2022 23:31:10
From: sibeen
ID: 1869885
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


sibeen said:

dv said:


If only wars were decided by polling.

I just want to know what those 26% are smoking

It ain’t over till the fat lady sings.

Reply Quote

Date: 7/04/2022 03:14:52
From: roughbarked
ID: 1869923
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Russia has insisted its troops have committed no war crimes.

>So what was the legal reason for attacking Ukraine?

Reply Quote

Date: 7/04/2022 06:04:12
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1869925
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

roughbarked said:


Russia has insisted its troops have committed no war crimes.

>So what was the legal reason for attacking Ukraine?

Reply Quote

Date: 7/04/2022 07:56:59
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1869930
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

roughbarked said:


Russia has insisted its troops have committed no war crimes.

>So what was the legal reason for attacking Ukraine?

Can’t be a war crime if it’s not a war.

Reply Quote

Date: 7/04/2022 08:46:18
From: roughbarked
ID: 1869935
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


roughbarked said:

Russia has insisted its troops have committed no war crimes.

>So what was the legal reason for attacking Ukraine?


Wasn’t me. ;)

Reply Quote

Date: 7/04/2022 08:49:19
From: roughbarked
ID: 1869938
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:


roughbarked said:

Russia has insisted its troops have committed no war crimes.

>So what was the legal reason for attacking Ukraine?

Can’t be a war crime if it’s not a war.

Ah. It is an operation. Just doing exercises.

Reply Quote

Date: 7/04/2022 08:57:10
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1869939
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

The self-proclaimed government in Transnistria has denied troops are readying for battle, and the Moldovan government says there are no signs of a mobilisation.

While Moldova has long demanded Russia withdraw troops from the separatist region, the country’s Minister for Internal Affairs, Ana Revenco, downplayed the chances of Transnistria being used to stage an attack.

“So far the analysis points to a hypothetical threat,” she told the ABC. “I would like to talk in facts.”

Reply Quote

Date: 7/04/2022 10:44:23
From: Cymek
ID: 1869959
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

I see its claimed or fact that Ukraine has attacked Russia interests across the border.

If it’s military, government buildings or strategic supplies as the targets I can’t see the problem
Russia seems to be trying to get them condemn for this

Reply Quote

Date: 7/04/2022 11:07:22
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1869974
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Cymek said:


I see its claimed or fact that Ukraine has attacked Russia interests across the border.

If it’s military, government buildings or strategic supplies as the targets I can’t see the problem
Russia seems to be trying to get them condemn for this

My limited education in international law is some decades back now, but i really can’t remember where it says ‘we can attack you and bomb and shell the bejabbers out of your country, but you’re not allowed to touch our country’>

Reply Quote

Date: 7/04/2022 11:58:43
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1869984
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:

Cymek said:

I see its claimed or fact that Ukraine has attacked Russia interests across the border.

If it’s military, government buildings or strategic supplies as the targets I can’t see the problem
Russia seems to be trying to get them condemn for this

My limited education in international law is some decades back now, but i really can’t remember where it says ‘we can attack you and bomb and shell the bejabbers out of your country, but you’re not allowed to touch our country’>

It’s inscribed on the nuclear warhead casings…

Reply Quote

Date: 7/04/2022 14:55:12
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1870026
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

https://medium.com/@kravchenko_mm/what-should-russia-do-with-ukraine-translation-of-a-propaganda-article-by-a-russian-journalist-a3e92e3cb64

Link

Dunno if this has been posted before as I don’t usually read this thread.

Reply Quote

Date: 7/04/2022 15:09:43
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1870028
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

ChrispenEvan said:

Dunno if this has been posted before as I don’t usually read this thread.

why not

Reply Quote

Date: 7/04/2022 15:12:15
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1870030
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Dunno if this has been posted before as I don’t usually read this thread.

why not

doesn’t interest me.

Reply Quote

Date: 7/04/2022 15:41:26
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1870046
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

supposedly

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/04/06/world/ukraine-russia-war-news#russia-pows-ukraine-executed

Evan Hill

Video appears to show Ukrainian troops killing captured Russian soldiers.

A still frame from a video posted online on Monday shows Ukrainian soldiers at the scene where Russian soldiers were executed around March 30.
A still frame from a video posted online on Monday shows Ukrainian soldiers at the scene where Russian soldiers were executed around March 30.Credit…VOENACHER via Telegram

A video posted online on Monday and verified by The New York Times appears to show a group of Ukrainian soldiers killing captured Russian troops outside a village west of Kyiv.

“He’s still alive. Film these marauders. Look, he’s still alive. He’s gasping,” a man says as a Russian soldier with a jacket pulled over his head, apparently wounded, is seen still breathing. A soldier then shoots the man twice. After the man keeps moving, the soldier shoots him again, and he stops.

At least three other apparent Russian soldiers, including one with an obvious head wound who has his hands tied behind his back, can be seen dead near the victim. All are wearing camouflage, and three have white arm bands commonly worn by Russian troops. Equipment is scattered around them and there are blood stains near each man’s head.

The soldiers are lying in the road a few feet from a BMD-2, an infantry fighting vehicle used by Russian airborne units. Some appear to have had their jackets, shoes or helmets removed. Farther up the road, other destroyed vehicles can be seen.

The video was filmed on a road just north of the village of Dmytrivka, around seven miles southwest of Bucha, where the discovery of hundreds of corpses of people in civilian clothes in recent days has prompted accusations that Russian troops killed civilians as they retreated.

The killings appear to have been the result of a Ukrainian ambush of a Russian column that occurred on or around March 30, as Russian troops were withdrawing from small towns west of Kyiv that have been the scene of fierce fighting for weeks. Oz Katerji, a freelance journalist, posted videos and pictures of the destroyed column on Twitter on April 2 and wrote that soldiers told him that the Russians had been ambushed 48 hours earlier.

Ukraine’s Defense Ministry also tweeted about the destruction of the Russian convoy, calling it “precise work” by Ukrainian forces. “These are not even humans,” a Ukrainian soldier says in the video as he walks among the wrecked vehicles, adding that two Russian lieutenants had been taken prisoner.

The Ukrainian soldiers are identifiable by their flag patches and blue arm bands and repeat “glory to Ukraine” multiple times. Their unit is unclear, but in the video of the killing, one of the men refers to some of them as “Belgravia lads,” likely referring to a housing development called Belgravia located a few hundred yards from the incident.

A Ukrainian news agency that posted a video of the aftermath of the ambush on March 30 described it as the work of the “Georgian Legion,” a paramilitary unit of Georgian volunteers that formed to fight on behalf of Ukraine in 2014.

Reply Quote

Date: 7/04/2022 15:44:39
From: Cymek
ID: 1870047
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Would take strong moral conviction to not want some payback for people who are destroying your country and murdering its citizens

Reply Quote

Date: 7/04/2022 15:48:07
From: roughbarked
ID: 1870048
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Cymek said:


Would take strong moral conviction to not want some payback for people who are destroying your country and murdering its citizens

Indeed.

Reply Quote

Date: 7/04/2022 19:43:42
From: Kingy
ID: 1870118
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

The US Senate unanimously approved, by voice vote, a bill that would resurrect the Lend-Lease program for military aid to Ukraine.

Reply Quote

Date: 7/04/2022 19:45:25
From: dv
ID: 1870119
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Kingy said:


The US Senate unanimously approved, by voice vote, a bill that would resurrect the Lend-Lease program for military aid to Ukraine.

nice

Reply Quote

Date: 7/04/2022 20:24:42
From: party_pants
ID: 1870129
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Kingy said:


The US Senate unanimously approved, by voice vote, a bill that would resurrect the Lend-Lease program for military aid to Ukraine.

Sounds good.

The news out of Ukraine has left me feeling very distressed in the last few days.

Reply Quote

Date: 7/04/2022 20:26:20
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1870130
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

party_pants said:


Kingy said:

The US Senate unanimously approved, by voice vote, a bill that would resurrect the Lend-Lease program for military aid to Ukraine.

Sounds good.

The news out of Ukraine has left me feeling very distressed in the last few days.

I can only take it in small doses.

Reply Quote

Date: 7/04/2022 20:27:02
From: party_pants
ID: 1870131
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


party_pants said:

Kingy said:

The US Senate unanimously approved, by voice vote, a bill that would resurrect the Lend-Lease program for military aid to Ukraine.

Sounds good.

The news out of Ukraine has left me feeling very distressed in the last few days.

I can only take it in small doses.

Reading the headlines is bad enough.

Reply Quote

Date: 7/04/2022 21:45:16
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1870184
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

https://twitter.com/mathieuvonrohr/status/1511968324007170051

“German intelligence has intercepted radio transmissions from Russian military officers in which murders of civilians in Butscha were discussed. Some of them are said to be related to specific corpses photographed in Bucha.”

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 00:24:51
From: transition
ID: 1870212
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:

https://twitter.com/mathieuvonrohr/status/1511968324007170051

“German intelligence has intercepted radio transmissions from Russian military officers in which murders of civilians in Butscha were discussed. Some of them are said to be related to specific corpses photographed in Bucha.”

what do those guys use, open channel CB radio or something

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 00:53:16
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1870218
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

has this been posted?

https://medium.com/@kravchenko_mm/what-should-russia-do-with-ukraine-translation-of-a-propaganda-article-by-a-russian-journalist-a3e92e3cb64

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 00:56:53
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1870219
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

sarahs mum said:


has this been posted?

https://medium.com/@kravchenko_mm/what-should-russia-do-with-ukraine-translation-of-a-propaganda-article-by-a-russian-journalist-a3e92e3cb64

I think somebody did post it but I haven’t read it yet.

I’ll read it tomorrow.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 01:02:24
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1870220
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


sarahs mum said:

has this been posted?

https://medium.com/@kravchenko_mm/what-should-russia-do-with-ukraine-translation-of-a-propaganda-article-by-a-russian-journalist-a3e92e3cb64

I think somebody did post it but I haven’t read it yet.

I’ll read it tomorrow.

It’s pretty f*cked.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 01:08:51
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1870221
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

I’ll leave it until the weekend.

I’m wanting a pleasant day tomorrow.

I’m going to ring the brother in the afternoon, I have a suspicion all this awful Ukraine news is getting him stressed and down.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 01:15:09
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1870222
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


I’ll leave it until the weekend.

I’m wanting a pleasant day tomorrow.

I’m going to ring the brother in the afternoon, I have a suspicion all this awful Ukraine news is getting him stressed and down.

good idea.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 05:27:32
From: Michael V
ID: 1870223
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:

https://twitter.com/mathieuvonrohr/status/1511968324007170051

“German intelligence has intercepted radio transmissions from Russian military officers in which murders of civilians in Butscha were discussed. Some of them are said to be related to specific corpses photographed in Bucha.”

Ooh-ah. Let’s hope that the tweet is true.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 06:00:30
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1870227
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

sarahs mum said:


has this been posted?

https://medium.com/@kravchenko_mm/what-should-russia-do-with-ukraine-translation-of-a-propaganda-article-by-a-russian-journalist-a3e92e3cb64

If you substitute ‘bolshevik’/‘communist’ wherever ‘Nazi’ appear in it (and the writer uses constant repetition to insinuate the term into the reader’s thinking), then it could have been lifted directly from the ‘Voelkischer Beobachter’.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 06:53:07
From: Michael V
ID: 1870233
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

transition said:


Dark Orange said:

https://twitter.com/mathieuvonrohr/status/1511968324007170051

“German intelligence has intercepted radio transmissions from Russian military officers in which murders of civilians in Butscha were discussed. Some of them are said to be related to specific corpses photographed in Bucha.”

what do those guys use, open channel CB radio or something

I understand that they do, and use mobile phones, too; significant supplies of military communication systems were purloined and sold.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 08:35:46
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1870242
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Michael V said:


Dark Orange said:

https://twitter.com/mathieuvonrohr/status/1511968324007170051

“German intelligence has intercepted radio transmissions from Russian military officers in which murders of civilians in Butscha were discussed. Some of them are said to be related to specific corpses photographed in Bucha.”

Ooh-ah. Let’s hope that the tweet is true.

And here we were thinking those Russian mobile crematoriums were for their fallen soldiers, turns out they were mainly for cleaning up the cities.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 10:10:25
From: dv
ID: 1870272
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Sanctions On Russia Have Prompted Its Influencers To Cut Up Chanel Bags In Protest
April 7, 2022, 9:58 am
Sanctions implemented as a result of the war on Ukraine have started making life more inconvenient for people in Russia, and now some impacted are lashing out.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-61005607

Rofl

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 10:13:42
From: dv
ID: 1870280
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 10:27:26
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1870292
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


Where are the R-elephants in the room though ¿

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 10:29:39
From: Cymek
ID: 1870296
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:


dv said:


Where are the R-elephants in the room though ¿

Are their Neo Nazis in the Ukraine military ?
If so its not a good look

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 10:31:44
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1870298
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Cymek said:

SCIENCE said:

dv said:


Where are the R-elephants in the room though ¿

Are their Neo Nazis in the Ukraine military ?
If so its not a good look

they are everywhere it’s legit’ quite a problem

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 10:35:04
From: Cymek
ID: 1870300
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:

Cymek said:

SCIENCE said:

Where are the R-elephants in the room though ¿

Are their Neo Nazis in the Ukraine military ?
If so its not a good look

they are everywhere it’s legit’ quite a problem

In Ukraine or the world ?
My son said Ukraine was full of them, I tended to think of it as an excuse for the Russians to invade and not legit.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 10:39:57
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1870304
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Cymek said:


SCIENCE said:

Cymek said:

Are their Neo Nazis in the Ukraine military ?
If so its not a good look

they are everywhere it’s legit’ quite a problem

In Ukraine or the world ?
My son said Ukraine was full of them, I tended to think of it as an excuse for the Russians to invade and not legit.

The USSA for example is full of them and perhaps enough to act as their central nervous system so if the Russians were serious and actually had guts then they would be flying over there to have a play.

Though fair’s fair maybe they’re just setting up the stage first.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 10:42:48
From: Cymek
ID: 1870305
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:


Cymek said:

SCIENCE said:

they are everywhere it’s legit’ quite a problem

In Ukraine or the world ?
My son said Ukraine was full of them, I tended to think of it as an excuse for the Russians to invade and not legit.

The USSA for example is full of them and perhaps enough to act as their central nervous system so if the Russians were serious and actually had guts then they would be flying over there to have a play.

Though fair’s fair maybe they’re just setting up the stage first.

As a whole the human race certainly doesn’t learn from history and repeats or allows the same atrocities to continue to occur.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 10:42:53
From: Michael V
ID: 1870306
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:



LOLOLOLOL

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 10:43:26
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1870308
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Cymek said:


SCIENCE said:

Cymek said:

Are their Neo Nazis in the Ukraine military ?
If so its not a good look

they are everywhere it’s legit’ quite a problem

In Ukraine or the world ?
My son said Ukraine was full of them, I tended to think of it as an excuse for the Russians to invade and not legit.

Has your son been watching RT?

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 11:00:29
From: Tamb
ID: 1870316
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:


Cymek said:

SCIENCE said:

they are everywhere it’s legit’ quite a problem

In Ukraine or the world ?
My son said Ukraine was full of them, I tended to think of it as an excuse for the Russians to invade and not legit.

The USSA for example is full of them and perhaps enough to act as their central nervous system so if the Russians were serious and actually had guts then they would be flying over there to have a play.

Though fair’s fair maybe they’re just setting up the stage first.


It also depends where you draw the nazi line.
In South Africa they claimed that the Pope was a communist.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 11:26:44
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1870322
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Cymek said:


SCIENCE said:

Cymek said:

Are their Neo Nazis in the Ukraine military ?
If so its not a good look

they are everywhere it’s legit’ quite a problem

In Ukraine or the world ?
My son said Ukraine was full of them, I tended to think of it as an excuse for the Russians to invade and not legit.

The ultra-nationalist fascist regime in Russia uses the word “Nazi” to mean: “Any members of neighbouring countries who object to being conquered and absorbed by Russia.”

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 11:47:29
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1870326
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


Cymek said:

SCIENCE said:

they are everywhere it’s legit’ quite a problem

In Ukraine or the world ?
My son said Ukraine was full of them, I tended to think of it as an excuse for the Russians to invade and not legit.

The ultra-nationalist fascist regime in Russia uses the word “Nazi” to mean: “Any members of neighbouring countries who object to being conquered and absorbed by Russia.”

Any person who can be brainwashed by negative ideologies, motivated by the false promise of money and brainwashed to fall over a cliff…

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 11:58:00
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1870328
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Witty Rejoinder said:


Cymek said:

SCIENCE said:

they are everywhere it’s legit’ quite a problem

In Ukraine or the world ?
My son said Ukraine was full of them, I tended to think of it as an excuse for the Russians to invade and not legit.

Has your son been watching RT?

https://www.fairobserver.com/region/europe/medea-benjamin-nicolas-js-davies-ukraine-war-russia-ukranian-neo-nazi-fascists-azov-battalion-89292/

Link

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 12:02:29
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1870329
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

The heat needs to be turned on Russia more.

The Russian people should know what’s going on, and be told about their governments propaganda and misinformation and war crimes.

Think of the loss of so many loved people and the personal, social and financial pressure and goes along with it. The total cost of this war.

Will there be more sanctions placed on Russia until Russia compensates Ukraine for:

All families who have lost loved ones to Russian forces.
All the families and people who have lost their homes and income.
Compensation for each business and corporation for lost income, lost buildings and infrastructure, lost time, lost employees and lost resources.
Compensation to the Ukrainian government for each soldier lost and for each public building lost, each hospital lost, and for each military vehicle and plane lost and for other infrastructure lost.

What more hard line pressure could be placed on Russia?

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 12:10:18
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1870330
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


Cymek said:

SCIENCE said:

they are everywhere it’s legit’ quite a problem

In Ukraine or the world ?
My son said Ukraine was full of them, I tended to think of it as an excuse for the Russians to invade and not legit.

The ultra-nationalist fascist regime in Russia uses the word “Nazi” to mean: “Any members of neighbouring countries who object to being conquered and absorbed by Russia.”

Putin is using illegal gangs as militia for criminal purposes.

Specifically to commit war crimes and murder people, they are not regular army so should be treated as war criminals, the pathway from them leads to the mass murderer Putin.

Time to clamp down on these gangs more. Knock them out.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 12:12:29
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1870331
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

ChrispenEvan said:


Witty Rejoinder said:

Cymek said:

In Ukraine or the world ?
My son said Ukraine was full of them, I tended to think of it as an excuse for the Russians to invade and not legit.

Has your son been watching RT?

https://www.fairobserver.com/region/europe/medea-benjamin-nicolas-js-davies-ukraine-war-russia-ukranian-neo-nazi-fascists-azov-battalion-89292/

Link

As I’ve pointed out before, there are is a far right in Ukraine as there is in virtually any country.

But they are relatively small and ineffectual.

In Russia, the far right is actually in power. Putin’s regime has rightly been described as fascist by critical observers inside and outside the country for a long time now.

The idea that the imperialist, ultra-nationalist warlord of Russia is seeking to squash neighbouring nations because they’re “too right wing and nationalistic” is laughable in the extreme.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 12:15:24
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1870332
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

we probably agree with Bubblecar but note that we’ve never been to Russia or Ukraine so not necessarily our lane

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 12:18:51
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1870334
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


ChrispenEvan said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Has your son been watching RT?

https://www.fairobserver.com/region/europe/medea-benjamin-nicolas-js-davies-ukraine-war-russia-ukranian-neo-nazi-fascists-azov-battalion-89292/

Link

As I’ve pointed out before, there are is a far right in Ukraine as there is in virtually any country.

But they are relatively small and ineffectual.

In Russia, the far right is actually in power. Putin’s regime has rightly been described as fascist by critical observers inside and outside the country for a long time now.

The idea that the imperialist, ultra-nationalist warlord of Russia is seeking to squash neighbouring nations because they’re “too right wing and nationalistic” is laughable in the extreme.

Fascist billionaire and a mass murderer.

Right wing criminal and a mass murderer who owns a billion dollar yacht and billion dollar home.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 12:19:48
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1870335
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:


we probably agree with Bubblecar but note that we’ve never been to Russia or Ukraine so not necessarily our lane

somebody made a post with a question and I gave an answer that had relevant info.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 12:20:03
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1870336
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:


we probably agree with Bubblecar but note that we’ve never been to Russia or Ukraine so not necessarily our lane

Russian nuclear missiles can reach every part of Australia.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 12:23:59
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1870338
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Tau.Neutrino said:


SCIENCE said:

we probably agree with Bubblecar but note that we’ve never been to Russia or Ukraine so not necessarily our lane

Russian nuclear missiles can reach every part of Australia.

so can US ones.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 12:24:43
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1870339
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

ChrispenEvan said:


Witty Rejoinder said:

Cymek said:

In Ukraine or the world ?
My son said Ukraine was full of them, I tended to think of it as an excuse for the Russians to invade and not legit.

Has your son been watching RT?

https://www.fairobserver.com/region/europe/medea-benjamin-nicolas-js-davies-ukraine-war-russia-ukranian-neo-nazi-fascists-azov-battalion-89292/

Link

I am aware of the Azov Battalion. To suggest that their views are representative of the Ukrainian armed forces or the population at large is absurd. Also most countries have tiny minorities who identify as right-wing extremists.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 12:27:28
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1870340
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

ChrispenEvan said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

SCIENCE said:

we probably agree with Bubblecar but note that we’ve never been to Russia or Ukraine so not necessarily our lane

Russian nuclear missiles can reach every part of Australia.

so can US ones.

And the US is a fascist state that has recently invaded Canada, I see.

rolls eyes and wishes Boris would resume his “lack of interest” in this thread

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 12:27:44
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1870342
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

ChrispenEvan said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

SCIENCE said:

we probably agree with Bubblecar but note that we’ve never been to Russia or Ukraine so not necessarily our lane

Russian nuclear missiles can reach every part of Australia.

so can US ones.

Russia, China and a few others pose a bigger problem than USA.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 12:28:15
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1870343
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Witty Rejoinder said:


ChrispenEvan said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Has your son been watching RT?

https://www.fairobserver.com/region/europe/medea-benjamin-nicolas-js-davies-ukraine-war-russia-ukranian-neo-nazi-fascists-azov-battalion-89292/

Link

I am aware of the Azov Battalion. To suggest that their views are representative of the Ukrainian armed forces or the population at large is absurd. Also most countries have tiny minorities who identify as right-wing extremists.

I think the article went into the rightwing a little more than just the azov battalion.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 12:28:42
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1870344
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


ChrispenEvan said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Russian nuclear missiles can reach every part of Australia.

so can US ones.

And the US is a fascist state that has recently invaded Canada, I see.

rolls eyes and wishes Boris would resume his “lack of interest” in this thread

LOL.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 12:29:21
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1870346
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Tau.Neutrino said:


ChrispenEvan said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Russian nuclear missiles can reach every part of Australia.

so can US ones.

Russia, China and a few others pose a bigger problem than USA.

That wasn’t my point, but carry on.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 12:30:16
From: diddly-squat
ID: 1870347
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


Cymek said:

SCIENCE said:

they are everywhere it’s legit’ quite a problem

In Ukraine or the world ?
My son said Ukraine was full of them, I tended to think of it as an excuse for the Russians to invade and not legit.

The ultra-nationalist fascist regime in Russia uses the word “Nazi” to mean: “Any members of neighbouring countries who object to being conquered and absorbed by Russia.”

It’s interesting because Russia is actually well know for it right-wing nationalism

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 12:30:41
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1870348
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Why isn’t the PM calling Putin a war criminal, because the right wing arsehole dictator is one.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 12:31:43
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1870349
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

ChrispenEvan said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

ChrispenEvan said:

so can US ones.

Russia, China and a few others pose a bigger problem than USA.

That wasn’t my point, but carry on.

Yes other countries have nukes, big deal.

Time to get rid of Putin.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 12:32:41
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1870350
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

ChrispenEvan said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

ChrispenEvan said:

so can US ones.

Russia, China and a few others pose a bigger problem than USA.

That wasn’t my point, but carry on.

As you might have heard on the grapevine at some stage, the US is a close military ally of Australia.

That’s not likely to change, unless people like you and moll ever come into power in this country :)

I’ll anticipate your usual retarded response: LOL

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 12:33:20
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1870351
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Tau.Neutrino said:


ChrispenEvan said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Russia, China and a few others pose a bigger problem than USA.

That wasn’t my point, but carry on.

Yes other countries have nukes, big deal.

Time to get rid of Putin.

yes other countries do have nukes and the chances of them nuking australia are just as slim as russia doing it.

how do you propose we do that?

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 12:33:53
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1870352
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:

Cymek said:

SCIENCE said:

Where are the R-elephants in the room though ¿

Are their Neo Nazis in the Ukraine military ?
If so its not a good look

they are everywhere it’s legit’ quite a problem

https://aijac.org.au/fresh-air/russia-sends-its-pet-neo-nazis-to-kill-zelensky-while-claiming-to-want-to-denazify-ukraine/
Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 12:33:57
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1870353
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


ChrispenEvan said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Russia, China and a few others pose a bigger problem than USA.

That wasn’t my point, but carry on.

As you might have heard on the grapevine at some stage, the US is a close military ally of Australia.

That’s not likely to change, unless people like you and moll ever come into power in this country :)

I’ll anticipate your usual retarded response: LOL

you are a very shallow person.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 12:35:43
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1870355
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

ChrispenEvan said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

ChrispenEvan said:

That wasn’t my point, but carry on.

Yes other countries have nukes, big deal.

Time to get rid of Putin.

yes other countries do have nukes and the chances of them nuking australia are just as slim as russia doing it.

how do you propose we do that?

I propose we put more money and resources into the UN.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 12:37:14
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1870357
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Tau.Neutrino said:


ChrispenEvan said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Yes other countries have nukes, big deal.

Time to get rid of Putin.

yes other countries do have nukes and the chances of them nuking australia are just as slim as russia doing it.

how do you propose we do that?

I propose we put more money and resources into the UN.

and…

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 12:37:38
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1870358
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Tau.Neutrino said:


ChrispenEvan said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Yes other countries have nukes, big deal.

Time to get rid of Putin.

yes other countries do have nukes and the chances of them nuking australia are just as slim as russia doing it.

how do you propose we do that?

I propose we put more money and resources into the UN.

I also propose that we put more resources into training other countries to run their country properly.

We have quiet considerable experience in this area and also have off the shelf models to do this.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 12:38:24
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1870360
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

ChrispenEvan said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

ChrispenEvan said:

yes other countries do have nukes and the chances of them nuking australia are just as slim as russia doing it.

how do you propose we do that?

I propose we put more money and resources into the UN.

and…

And how about you come up with some ideas.

Got any?

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 12:38:49
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1870361
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

ChrispenEvan said:


Witty Rejoinder said:

ChrispenEvan said:

https://www.fairobserver.com/region/europe/medea-benjamin-nicolas-js-davies-ukraine-war-russia-ukranian-neo-nazi-fascists-azov-battalion-89292/

Link

I am aware of the Azov Battalion. To suggest that their views are representative of the Ukrainian armed forces or the population at large is absurd. Also most countries have tiny minorities who identify as right-wing extremists.

I think the article went into the rightwing a little more than just the azov battalion.

I don’t know how reliable a source that article is.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 12:39:55
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1870363
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Tau.Neutrino said:


ChrispenEvan said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

I propose we put more money and resources into the UN.

and…

And how about you come up with some ideas.

Got any?

you are the one saying we should do these things not me so it is up to you to come up with workable plans.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 12:40:47
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1870364
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Witty Rejoinder said:


ChrispenEvan said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

I am aware of the Azov Battalion. To suggest that their views are representative of the Ukrainian armed forces or the population at large is absurd. Also most countries have tiny minorities who identify as right-wing extremists.

I think the article went into the rightwing a little more than just the azov battalion.

I don’t know how reliable a source that article is.

I checked several pages for how reliable that page before posting is and it appears OK.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 12:42:06
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1870367
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Is using under trained personal to be a fighting military force listed as a war crime ?

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 12:42:16
From: Cymek
ID: 1870368
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Tau.Neutrino said:


ChrispenEvan said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Yes other countries have nukes, big deal.

Time to get rid of Putin.

yes other countries do have nukes and the chances of them nuking australia are just as slim as russia doing it.

how do you propose we do that?

I propose we put more money and resources into the UN.

The UN needs a complete overhaul and rules changed.
Security council isn’t permanent for a start and if its voting on something a member is involved in they don’t get a vote or veto

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 12:42:26
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1870369
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

ChrispenEvan said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

ChrispenEvan said:

and…

And how about you come up with some ideas.

Got any?

you are the one saying we should do these things not me so it is up to you to come up with workable plans.

So you don’t have any?

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 12:43:16
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1870370
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Tau.Neutrino said:


Is using under trained personal to be a fighting military force listed as a war crime ?

If it isn’t should it be a war crime?

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 12:43:37
From: diddly-squat
ID: 1870371
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Tau.Neutrino said:


Is using under trained personal to be a fighting military force listed as a war crime ?

no, it’s just bad practice

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 12:45:05
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1870372
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Tau.Neutrino said:


ChrispenEvan said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

And how about you come up with some ideas.

Got any?

you are the one saying we should do these things not me so it is up to you to come up with workable plans.

So you don’t have any?

no. as i have no experience in this stuff my ideas would be worthless. personally i would just nuke the lot and start over. sure the environment would suffer for a while but look at Chernobyl.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 12:45:30
From: Cymek
ID: 1870374
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Tau.Neutrino said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Is using under trained personal to be a fighting military force listed as a war crime ?

If it isn’t should it be a war crime?

Could be laziness or you want poorly trained soldiers as they are more likely to kill civilians for shits and giggles and that fits your agenda.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 12:45:49
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1870375
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Tau.Neutrino said:


ChrispenEvan said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

I propose we put more money and resources into the UN.

and…

And how about you come up with some ideas.

Got any?

Disband the UN. Then start a new one that has an emergency protocol allowing the temporary suspension of a member.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 12:45:52
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1870376
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Cymek said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

ChrispenEvan said:

yes other countries do have nukes and the chances of them nuking australia are just as slim as russia doing it.

how do you propose we do that?

I propose we put more money and resources into the UN.

The UN needs a complete overhaul and rules changed.
Security council isn’t permanent for a start and if its voting on something a member is involved in they don’t get a vote or veto

We could keep out pointing their weaknesses out to them.

Time to clean up their act more.

They are dragging their feet a bit I think.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 12:47:01
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1870377
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

ChrispenEvan said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

ChrispenEvan said:

you are the one saying we should do these things not me so it is up to you to come up with workable plans.

So you don’t have any?

no. as i have no experience in this stuff my ideas would be worthless. personally i would just nuke the lot and start over. sure the environment would suffer for a while but look at Chernobyl.

That’s still not a solution really is it.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 12:48:34
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1870378
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Tau.Neutrino said:


ChrispenEvan said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

So you don’t have any?

no. as i have no experience in this stuff my ideas would be worthless. personally i would just nuke the lot and start over. sure the environment would suffer for a while but look at Chernobyl.

That’s still not a solution really is it.

well, i did tell you i have no experience so what do you expect. at least i don’t fool myself that i have a solution.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 12:49:33
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1870379
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

ChrispenEvan said:


Witty Rejoinder said:

ChrispenEvan said:

I think the article went into the rightwing a little more than just the azov battalion.

I don’t know how reliable a source that article is.

I checked several pages for how reliable that page before posting is and it appears OK.

Well it’s not in agreeance with the wider media.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 12:49:35
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1870380
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Cymek said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Is using under trained personal to be a fighting military force listed as a war crime ?

If it isn’t should it be a war crime?

Could be laziness or you want poorly trained soldiers as they are more likely to kill civilians for shits and giggles and that fits your agenda.

Yes right wing fascists that Putin trains as gangs are more likely to kill.

Especially hit and run thugs with promised money after the hit.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 12:51:14
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1870381
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

ChrispenEvan said:

and…

And how about you come up with some ideas.

Got any?

Disband the UN. Then start a new one that has an emergency protocol allowing the temporary suspension of a member.

No, we already have one.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 12:51:39
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1870382
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Witty Rejoinder said:


ChrispenEvan said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

I don’t know how reliable a source that article is.

I checked several pages for how reliable that page before posting is and it appears OK.

Well it’s not in agreeance with the wider media.

it appears to me to be made up of verifiable facts.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 12:53:19
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1870383
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Cymek said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

ChrispenEvan said:

yes other countries do have nukes and the chances of them nuking australia are just as slim as russia doing it.

how do you propose we do that?

I propose we put more money and resources into the UN.

The UN needs a complete overhaul and rules changed.
Security council isn’t permanent for a start and if its voting on something a member is involved in they don’t get a vote or veto

The problem stems back to UN’s origins.

Largely, the UN was an idea of Franklin Roosevelt’s . Roosevelt was nobody’s fool most of the time, indeed one of the most able political operators of all time. But he did kid himself on a few things, a couple of them being that Russia was basically a decent country with rather poor leadership, that that leadership was not as bad as people like Churchill told him it was, and that he could ‘handle’ Uncle Joe Stalin.

That sort of thinking was quite prevalent among the people who actually began building the UN organisation at the end of WW2, and the Russians, in particular, did everything they could to foster those impressions.

So, when formulating things like the Security Council, the delegates were looking at the situation through some rather rose-coloured glasses.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 12:57:18
From: Cymek
ID: 1870385
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Cymek said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

I propose we put more money and resources into the UN.

The UN needs a complete overhaul and rules changed.
Security council isn’t permanent for a start and if its voting on something a member is involved in they don’t get a vote or veto

The problem stems back to UN’s origins.

Largely, the UN was an idea of Franklin Roosevelt’s . Roosevelt was nobody’s fool most of the time, indeed one of the most able political operators of all time. But he did kid himself on a few things, a couple of them being that Russia was basically a decent country with rather poor leadership, that that leadership was not as bad as people like Churchill told him it was, and that he could ‘handle’ Uncle Joe Stalin.

That sort of thinking was quite prevalent among the people who actually began building the UN organisation at the end of WW2, and the Russians, in particular, did everything they could to foster those impressions.

So, when formulating things like the Security Council, the delegates were looking at the situation through some rather rose-coloured glasses.

Based on the major contributors on the allied side wasn’t it.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 13:04:34
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1870387
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

ChrispenEvan said:


Witty Rejoinder said:

ChrispenEvan said:

I checked several pages for how reliable that page before posting is and it appears OK.

Well it’s not in agreeance with the wider media.

it appears to me to be made up of verifiable facts.

I disagree. It’s written by an apologist for Putin. In the current French presidential race a far-right extremist is polling 10%. Does that similarly reflect on the French people as Nazis?

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 13:12:47
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1870390
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Witty Rejoinder said:


ChrispenEvan said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Well it’s not in agreeance with the wider media.

it appears to me to be made up of verifiable facts.

I disagree. It’s written by an apologist for Putin. In the current French presidential race a far-right extremist is polling 10%. Does that similarly reflect on the French people as Nazis?

does anyone find that concerning at all

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 13:14:27
From: Cymek
ID: 1870391
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:


Witty Rejoinder said:

ChrispenEvan said:

it appears to me to be made up of verifiable facts.

I disagree. It’s written by an apologist for Putin. In the current French presidential race a far-right extremist is polling 10%. Does that similarly reflect on the French people as Nazis?

does anyone find that concerning at all

Which part ?

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 13:15:19
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1870392
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Cymek said:

Based on the major contributors on the allied side wasn’t it.

Yeah, but Roosevelt always had hopes the China could be moulded into a force for positive leadership in Asia (and Chiang Kai-Shek manipulated those hopes quite well for a long time), and he was only too willing to believe what Stalin told him. He thought that he had Stalin dazzled, but, really, it was a bit the other way around.

There was a lot of Roosevelt-style thinking around when the UN was getting off the ground, so having China and Russia as permanent Security Council members seemed natural and right. and, of course, it was a different China at the start, and for a longtime afterwards.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 13:18:29
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1870393
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:


Witty Rejoinder said:

ChrispenEvan said:

it appears to me to be made up of verifiable facts.

I disagree. It’s written by an apologist for Putin. In the current French presidential race a far-right extremist is polling 10%. Does that similarly reflect on the French people as Nazis?

does anyone find that concerning at all

Its concerning that a right wing war criminal is in power who has become a menace to the world. He has become a mass murderer who needs to be put on trial for his war crimes.

This criminal is still in power, he needs to be increasingly isolated so that his power is degraded to the point where the Russian Government can take him into custody.

The waiting time is concerning.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 13:27:39
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1870395
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Tau.Neutrino said:


SCIENCE said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

I disagree. It’s written by an apologist for Putin. In the current French presidential race a far-right extremist is polling 10%. Does that similarly reflect on the French people as Nazis?

does anyone find that concerning at all

Its concerning that a right wing war criminal is in power who has become a menace to the world. He has become a mass murderer who needs to be put on trial for his war crimes.

This criminal is still in power, he needs to be increasingly isolated so that his power is degraded to the point where the Russian Government can take him into custody.

The waiting time is concerning.

The waiting time is concerning because People in Ukraine are dying while people in Russia are being fooled by false information.

Time to make this type of information used is this way to be a war crime.

Send Putin to Jail.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 13:31:29
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1870397
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Tau.Neutrino said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

SCIENCE said:

does anyone find that concerning at all

Its concerning that a right wing war criminal is in power who has become a menace to the world. He has become a mass murderer who needs to be put on trial for his war crimes.

This criminal is still in power, he needs to be increasingly isolated so that his power is degraded to the point where the Russian Government can take him into custody.

The waiting time is concerning.

The waiting time is concerning because People in Ukraine are dying while people in Russia are being fooled by false information.

Time to make this type of information used is this way to be a war crime.

Send Putin to Jail.

Putin is training right wing militia and sending these as gangs one after the other into Ukraine.

Time to make that a war crime if it isn’t already.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 13:31:37
From: diddly-squat
ID: 1870398
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Tau.Neutrino said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

SCIENCE said:

does anyone find that concerning at all

Its concerning that a right wing war criminal is in power who has become a menace to the world. He has become a mass murderer who needs to be put on trial for his war crimes.

This criminal is still in power, he needs to be increasingly isolated so that his power is degraded to the point where the Russian Government can take him into custody.

The waiting time is concerning.

The waiting time is concerning because People in Ukraine are dying while people in Russia are being fooled by false information.

Time to make this type of information used is this way to be a war crime.

Send Putin to Jail.

lol

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 13:33:36
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1870400
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

diddly-squat said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Its concerning that a right wing war criminal is in power who has become a menace to the world. He has become a mass murderer who needs to be put on trial for his war crimes.

This criminal is still in power, he needs to be increasingly isolated so that his power is degraded to the point where the Russian Government can take him into custody.

The waiting time is concerning.

The waiting time is concerning because People in Ukraine are dying while people in Russia are being fooled by false information.

Time to make this type of information used is this way to be a war crime.

Send Putin to Jail.

lol

Putin isn’t funny.

War monger criminal. Mass murderer.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 13:35:15
From: diddly-squat
ID: 1870402
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Tau.Neutrino said:


diddly-squat said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

The waiting time is concerning because People in Ukraine are dying while people in Russia are being fooled by false information.

Time to make this type of information used is this way to be a war crime.

Send Putin to Jail.

lol

Putin isn’t funny.

War monger criminal. Mass murderer.

I agree, I just find your idealistic attitude cute, is all…

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 13:36:32
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1870403
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Tau.Neutrino said:


diddly-squat said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

The waiting time is concerning because People in Ukraine are dying while people in Russia are being fooled by false information.

Time to make this type of information used is this way to be a war crime.

Send Putin to Jail.

lol

Putin isn’t funny.

War monger criminal. Mass murderer.

He has committed war crimes.

They guy is an arsehole.

Kills his own people.

Kills others in another country without any mercy or care for anyone involved.

Russia needs some change.

They need to do it.

It gets too messy if more get involved.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 13:41:29
From: diddly-squat
ID: 1870408
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Tau.Neutrino said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

diddly-squat said:

lol

Putin isn’t funny.

War monger criminal. Mass murderer.

He has committed war crimes.

They guy is an arsehole.

Kills his own people.

Kills others in another country without any mercy or care for anyone involved.

Russia needs some change.

They need to do it.

It gets too messy if more get involved.

I understand

the guy is an arsehole

but all this doesn’t really matter though

because there is likely no way to ever prove

that Putin instructed people to kill civilians

and in the end

it’s unlikely even the perpetrators

of these crimes

will ever be held to justice in any formal sense

much like

what happens when MH17 was downed

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 13:44:22
From: Cymek
ID: 1870410
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

diddly-squat said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Putin isn’t funny.

War monger criminal. Mass murderer.

He has committed war crimes.

They guy is an arsehole.

Kills his own people.

Kills others in another country without any mercy or care for anyone involved.

Russia needs some change.

They need to do it.

It gets too messy if more get involved.

I understand

the guy is an arsehole

but all this doesn’t really matter though

because there is likely no way to ever prove

that Putin instructed people to kill civilians

and in the end

it’s unlikely even the perpetrators

of these crimes

will ever be held to justice in any formal sense

much like

what happens when MH17 was downed

Supposedly Russian crime syndicates run Russia, believable as the way the system runs pretty much encourages it

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 13:45:26
From: diddly-squat
ID: 1870412
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Cymek said:


diddly-squat said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

He has committed war crimes.

They guy is an arsehole.

Kills his own people.

Kills others in another country without any mercy or care for anyone involved.

Russia needs some change.

They need to do it.

It gets too messy if more get involved.

I understand

the guy is an arsehole

but all this doesn’t really matter though

because there is likely no way to ever prove

that Putin instructed people to kill civilians

and in the end

it’s unlikely even the perpetrators

of these crimes

will ever be held to justice in any formal sense

much like

what happens when MH17 was downed

Supposedly Russian crime syndicates run Russia, believable as the way the system runs pretty much encourages it

Make no mistake, the Russian govt runs Russia

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 13:46:11
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1870413
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Tau.Neutrino said:

Russia needs some change.

They need to do it.

It gets too messy if more get involved.

I bet that they don’t do anything, no matter what he does.

He strokes their egos. tells them that they’re the saviours of the world, that they’re special because they’re Russian, that all the world is against them, that the rest of the world is jealous of them and seeks only to destroy them, warm, warm fuzzies, how bright are our haloes.

Unless and until Russians see themselves differently, they won’t want to change anything.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 13:48:29
From: diddly-squat
ID: 1870416
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Russia needs some change.

They need to do it.

It gets too messy if more get involved.

I bet that they don’t do anything, no matter what he does.

He strokes their egos. tells them that they’re the saviours of the world, that they’re special because they’re Russian, that all the world is against them, that the rest of the world is jealous of them and seeks only to destroy them, warm, warm fuzzies, how bright are our haloes.

Unless and until Russians see themselves differently, they won’t want to change anything.

equally, most regular Russian people are smart enough to know that if they dissent against the govt they will be arrested and most regular Russian people know that being arrested for anti-govt political views never ends well.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 13:58:38
From: Cymek
ID: 1870417
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

diddly-squat said:


captain_spalding said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Russia needs some change.

They need to do it.

It gets too messy if more get involved.

I bet that they don’t do anything, no matter what he does.

He strokes their egos. tells them that they’re the saviours of the world, that they’re special because they’re Russian, that all the world is against them, that the rest of the world is jealous of them and seeks only to destroy them, warm, warm fuzzies, how bright are our haloes.

Unless and until Russians see themselves differently, they won’t want to change anything.

equally, most regular Russian people are smart enough to know that if they dissent against the govt they will be arrested and most regular Russian people know that being arrested for anti-govt political views never ends well.

End up in the Bureau Of Re-education and Corrections

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 14:02:40
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1870418
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Russia is suspended from the Human Rights Council.

Take that Putin.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 14:08:05
From: Cymek
ID: 1870419
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Tau.Neutrino said:


Russia is suspended from the Human Rights Council.

Take that Putin.

Putin is suspended from gallows by the people

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 14:09:56
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1870420
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

I might start profiling Putin like I have been with Trump only using media articles, referencing behavioural trails.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 14:10:45
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1870422
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Tau.Neutrino said:


Russia is suspended from the Human Rights Council.

Take that Putin.

With that on top of people in western Europe taking shorter showers, i predict a new Russian government by morning tea on Monday.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 14:15:22
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1870424
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Cymek said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Russia is suspended from the Human Rights Council.

Take that Putin.

Putin is suspended from gallows by the people

Putin is an alpha male
Putin is fascist billionaire dictating a communist country
Putin does not care about under trained, under prepared Russian soldiers he sends to their deaths.
Putin is a war criminal.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 14:18:39
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1870425
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Tau.Neutrino said:


Cymek said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Russia is suspended from the Human Rights Council.

Take that Putin.

Putin is suspended from gallows by the people

Putin is an alpha male
Putin is fascist billionaire dictating a communist country
Putin does not care about under trained, under prepared Russian soldiers he sends to their deaths.
Putin is a war criminal.

Russia is in no way still a communist country.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 14:20:22
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1870426
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Witty Rejoinder said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Cymek said:

Putin is suspended from gallows by the people

Putin is an alpha male
Putin is fascist billionaire dictating a communist country
Putin does not care about under trained, under prepared Russian soldiers he sends to their deaths.
Putin is a war criminal.

Russia is in no way still a communist country.

What are they now?

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 14:21:50
From: Cymek
ID: 1870427
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Witty Rejoinder said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Cymek said:

Putin is suspended from gallows by the people

Putin is an alpha male
Putin is fascist billionaire dictating a communist country
Putin does not care about under trained, under prepared Russian soldiers he sends to their deaths.
Putin is a war criminal.

Russia is in no way still a communist country.

Billionaires kind of tell you that don’t they

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 14:22:22
From: Cymek
ID: 1870428
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Tau.Neutrino said:


Witty Rejoinder said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Putin is an alpha male
Putin is fascist billionaire dictating a communist country
Putin does not care about under trained, under prepared Russian soldiers he sends to their deaths.
Putin is a war criminal.

Russia is in no way still a communist country.

What are they now?

Quasi fascist police state

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 14:25:09
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1870429
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Tau.Neutrino said:


Witty Rejoinder said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Putin is an alpha male
Putin is fascist billionaire dictating a communist country
Putin does not care about under trained, under prepared Russian soldiers he sends to their deaths.
Putin is a war criminal.

Russia is in no way still a communist country.

What are they now?

An authoritarian capitalist state run by the security services.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 14:25:51
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1870430
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Tau.Neutrino said:


Witty Rejoinder said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Putin is an alpha male
Putin is fascist billionaire dictating a communist country
Putin does not care about under trained, under prepared Russian soldiers he sends to their deaths.
Putin is a war criminal.

Russia is in no way still a communist country.

What are they now?

Well, they use ‘communism’ as a flag of convenience.

They get the banner out and wave it around when it suits their purposes, when they want distinguish themselves from those dreadful western countries, especially when they don’t want to do things the western way e.g. freedom to dissent. You know, same thing as as China does.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 14:26:32
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1870431
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Witty Rejoinder said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Russia is in no way still a communist country.

What are they now?

An authoritarian capitalist state run by the security services.

Always was, but the capitalist class was largely restricted to Politburo members.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 14:30:57
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1870432
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Witty Rejoinder said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

What are they now?

An authoritarian capitalist state run by the security services.

Always was, but the capitalist class was largely restricted to Politburo members.

I don’t think Stalin was selling shoes on the side.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 14:31:20
From: furious
ID: 1870433
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Witty Rejoinder said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Russia is in no way still a communist country.

What are they now?

An authoritarian capitalist state run by the security services.

You also often hear them referred to as a kleptocracy…

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 14:33:06
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1870434
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

furious said:


Witty Rejoinder said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

What are they now?

An authoritarian capitalist state run by the security services.

You also often hear them referred to as a kleptocracy…

Yeah.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 14:35:23
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1870436
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

furious said:


Witty Rejoinder said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

What are they now?

An authoritarian capitalist state run by the security services.

You also often hear them referred to as a kleptocracy…

Is Russia getting as bad as that George Orwell book 1984.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 14:35:55
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1870437
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

There was a Russian joke from Brezhnev’s time:

Brezhnev is showing his mother around, demonstrating what a success her boy is.

He sows her his enormous sumptuous office. He shows her luxurious Moscow apartment. He shows her the fleet of expensive, chauffeur-driven automobiles at his command, and his personal aircraft. He shows her his palatial dacha outside Moscow, and his hunting lodge and his fishing lodge in the farther areas.

But,, each time he shows her something,the old lady gets more and more visibly anxious. At the end, she’s almost a wreck.

‘What’s wrong, mama?’, asks Brezhnev, ‘don’t you like any of this?’

‘Oh, Leonid’, she says, ‘it’s magnificent, it truly is! But…what if the Communists come back and take it all away?!”

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 15:30:41
From: diddly-squat
ID: 1870448
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Tau.Neutrino said:


Witty Rejoinder said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Putin is an alpha male
Putin is fascist billionaire dictating a communist country
Putin does not care about under trained, under prepared Russian soldiers he sends to their deaths.
Putin is a war criminal.

Russia is in no way still a communist country.

What are they now?

an authoritarian democracy

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 15:37:20
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1870452
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

diddly-squat said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Russia is in no way still a communist country.

What are they now?

an authoritarian democracy

No serious observers regard Russia as a real democracy.

The only opposition permitted are those that Putin allows, many of whom are on his payroll.

True opposition figures are arrested, murdered or flee.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 15:39:08
From: Cymek
ID: 1870453
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


diddly-squat said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

What are they now?

an authoritarian democracy

No serious observers regard Russia as a real democracy.

The only opposition permitted are those that Putin allows, many of whom are on his payroll.

True opposition figures are arrested, murdered or flee.

SBS had a documentary on meeting Gorbachev I recorded the other night, looks interesting have to get round to watching it.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 15:40:30
From: furious
ID: 1870454
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Cymek said:


Bubblecar said:

diddly-squat said:

an authoritarian democracy

No serious observers regard Russia as a real democracy.

The only opposition permitted are those that Putin allows, many of whom are on his payroll.

True opposition figures are arrested, murdered or flee.

SBS had a documentary on meeting Gorbachev I recorded the other night, looks interesting have to get round to watching it.

Hang on, wait, you “recorded” it? How peculiar…

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 15:42:34
From: Cymek
ID: 1870456
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

furious said:


Cymek said:

Bubblecar said:

No serious observers regard Russia as a real democracy.

The only opposition permitted are those that Putin allows, many of whom are on his payroll.

True opposition figures are arrested, murdered or flee.

SBS had a documentary on meeting Gorbachev I recorded the other night, looks interesting have to get round to watching it.

Hang on, wait, you “recorded” it? How peculiar…

Why that ?

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 15:43:18
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1870458
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

so it can’t be communism unless it’s broken, and it’s only democracy if it’s a credit to the ideal, have we got that right

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 15:43:46
From: furious
ID: 1870460
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Cymek said:


furious said:

Cymek said:

SBS had a documentary on meeting Gorbachev I recorded the other night, looks interesting have to get round to watching it.

Hang on, wait, you “recorded” it? How peculiar…

Why that ?

I don’t know, just haven’t recorded anything this century. That’s what catch up tv is for…

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 15:47:18
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1870465
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Here’s the assessment from Freedom House

They rate Russia: Not Free and give them a score of 19 out of 100.

5 out of 40 for political rights, 14 out of 60 for civil liberties.

Their score for electoral democracy was 0. Full details at the page below.

https://freedomhouse.org/country/russia

Power in Russia’s authoritarian political system is concentrated in the hands of President Vladimir Putin. With loyalist security forces, a subservient judiciary, a controlled media environment, and a legislature consisting of a ruling party and pliable opposition factions, the Kremlin is able to manipulate elections and suppress genuine dissent. Rampant corruption facilitates shifting links among bureaucrats and organized crime groups.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 15:50:08
From: Cymek
ID: 1870466
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

furious said:


Cymek said:

furious said:

Hang on, wait, you “recorded” it? How peculiar…

Why that ?

I don’t know, just haven’t recorded anything this century. That’s what catch up tv is for…

True I could have done it that way as well but with it recorded I remember it exists rather than forget about it

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 15:51:27
From: Cymek
ID: 1870467
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


Here’s the assessment from Freedom House

They rate Russia: Not Free and give them a score of 19 out of 100.

5 out of 40 for political rights, 14 out of 60 for civil liberties.

Their score for electoral democracy was 0. Full details at the page below.

https://freedomhouse.org/country/russia

Power in Russia’s authoritarian political system is concentrated in the hands of President Vladimir Putin. With loyalist security forces, a subservient judiciary, a controlled media environment, and a legislature consisting of a ruling party and pliable opposition factions, the Kremlin is able to manipulate elections and suppress genuine dissent. Rampant corruption facilitates shifting links among bureaucrats and organized crime groups.

Russian tourist board

“Visit Russia we have …………>?? Beets…………??Potatoes, that’s about it really”

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 15:53:20
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1870469
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:


so it can’t be communism unless it’s broken, and it’s only democracy if it’s a credit to the ideal, have we got that right

I would have thought that a minimum requirement for a democracy was regular elections with rules that allowed genuinely independent political parties.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 15:54:15
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1870470
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

The Rev Dodgson said:


SCIENCE said:

so it can’t be communism unless it’s broken, and it’s only democracy if it’s a credit to the ideal, have we got that right

I would have thought that a minimum requirement for a democracy was regular elections with rules that allowed genuinely independent political parties.

no but democracy has to be best and if it starts to go bad that’s not democracy any more, it’s a failing of some other system

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 15:55:50
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1870471
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

SCIENCE said:

so it can’t be communism unless it’s broken, and it’s only democracy if it’s a credit to the ideal, have we got that right

I would have thought that a minimum requirement for a democracy was regular elections with rules that allowed genuinely independent political parties.

no but democracy has to be best and if it starts to go bad that’s not democracy any more, it’s a failing of some other system

Not sure what your point is.

There are lots of countries with imperfect democracies that are still called democracies.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 15:57:57
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1870472
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


Sanctions On Russia Have Prompted Its Influencers To Cut Up Chanel Bags In Protest
April 7, 2022, 9:58 am
Sanctions implemented as a result of the war on Ukraine have started making life more inconvenient for people in Russia, and now some impacted are lashing out.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-61005607

Rofl

Back to Wellies and Hessian Handbags.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 15:58:24
From: dv
ID: 1870473
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

I’ve got a lot of respect for the Freedom House ratings. Even though it’s an American institution and actually started by Republicans, it doesn’t do any favours to America’s allies, seems to be judged on objective criteria, like refused to polish the turd of post-invasion Iraq and registered the strong decline in democracy under Trump.

It’s worthwhile noting that Ukraine’s numbers are 61 “partly free”. It wasn’t a place completely devoid of problems and we can hope that things might improve in order to meet the EU’s goalposts. Like the man said, never let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 16:05:41
From: dv
ID: 1870477
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


There was a Russian joke from Brezhnev’s time:

Brezhnev is showing his mother around, demonstrating what a success her boy is.

He sows her his enormous sumptuous office. He shows her luxurious Moscow apartment. He shows her the fleet of expensive, chauffeur-driven automobiles at his command, and his personal aircraft. He shows her his palatial dacha outside Moscow, and his hunting lodge and his fishing lodge in the farther areas.

But,, each time he shows her something,the old lady gets more and more visibly anxious. At the end, she’s almost a wreck.

‘What’s wrong, mama?’, asks Brezhnev, ‘don’t you like any of this?’

‘Oh, Leonid’, she says, ‘it’s magnificent, it truly is! But…what if the Communists come back and take it all away?!”

That’s actually a well-formulated joke, well done.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 16:14:56
From: Ian
ID: 1870478
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


captain_spalding said:

There was a Russian joke from Brezhnev’s time:

Brezhnev is showing his mother around, demonstrating what a success her boy is.

He sows her his enormous sumptuous office. He shows her luxurious Moscow apartment. He shows her the fleet of expensive, chauffeur-driven automobiles at his command, and his personal aircraft. He shows her his palatial dacha outside Moscow, and his hunting lodge and his fishing lodge in the farther areas.

But,, each time he shows her something,the old lady gets more and more visibly anxious. At the end, she’s almost a wreck.

‘What’s wrong, mama?’, asks Brezhnev, ‘don’t you like any of this?’

‘Oh, Leonid’, she says, ‘it’s magnificent, it truly is! But…what if the Communists come back and take it all away?!”

That’s actually a well-formulated joke, well done.

And humorous

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 16:15:19
From: dv
ID: 1870479
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Australia is sending 20 armored vehicles to Ukraine

Australia will send 20 of its home-built Bushmaster armored personnel carriers to Ukraine, Prime Minister Scott Morrison said Friday.

The vehicles, produced by the Australian subsidiary of French company Thales, have been painted olive green with a Ukrainian flag on the side, and the words “United With Ukraine” stenciled on the vehicles.

https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-putin-news-04-07-22/h_4965b42a81359e1ee1a0f3ed326febc7

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 16:17:31
From: Ian
ID: 1870480
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


Australia is sending 20 armored vehicles to Ukraine

Australia will send 20 of its home-built Bushmaster armored personnel carriers to Ukraine, Prime Minister Scott Morrison said Friday.

The vehicles, produced by the Australian subsidiary of French company Thales, have been painted olive green with a Ukrainian flag on the side, and the words “United With Ukraine” stenciled on the vehicles.

https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-putin-news-04-07-22/h_4965b42a81359e1ee1a0f3ed326febc7

>>>Aust Politics

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 16:19:25
From: dv
ID: 1870481
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

US giving intel to Ukraine for operations in Donbas, Defense Secretary says

(CNN)Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin said publicly for the first time Thursday that the US is providing intelligence to Ukrainian forces to conduct operations in the Donbas region.

Testifying before the Senate Armed Services Committee, Austin was asked whether the US was providing intelligence to help Ukraine carry out attacks against Russian forces in the separatist-controlled Donbas region or Crimea.
“We are providing them intelligence to conduct operations in the Donbas, that’s correct,” Austin said in response to the question from Republican Sen. Tom Cotton of Arkansas.
Austin did not mention Crimea in his response. He also stated the US is not discouraging Ukraine from launching attacks against Russian forces in these areas.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/04/07/politics/us-intel-ukraine-donbas-operations/index.html

This is actually a big deal.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 16:28:22
From: furious
ID: 1870482
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


US giving intel to Ukraine for operations in Donbas, Defense Secretary says

(CNN)Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin said publicly for the first time Thursday that the US is providing intelligence to Ukrainian forces to conduct operations in the Donbas region.

Testifying before the Senate Armed Services Committee, Austin was asked whether the US was providing intelligence to help Ukraine carry out attacks against Russian forces in the separatist-controlled Donbas region or Crimea.
“We are providing them intelligence to conduct operations in the Donbas, that’s correct,” Austin said in response to the question from Republican Sen. Tom Cotton of Arkansas.
Austin did not mention Crimea in his response. He also stated the US is not discouraging Ukraine from launching attacks against Russian forces in these areas.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/04/07/politics/us-intel-ukraine-donbas-operations/index.html

This is actually a big deal.

That they stated it out loud or that they’re actually doing it?

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 17:26:31
From: dv
ID: 1870507
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

furious said:


dv said:

US giving intel to Ukraine for operations in Donbas, Defense Secretary says

(CNN)Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin said publicly for the first time Thursday that the US is providing intelligence to Ukrainian forces to conduct operations in the Donbas region.

Testifying before the Senate Armed Services Committee, Austin was asked whether the US was providing intelligence to help Ukraine carry out attacks against Russian forces in the separatist-controlled Donbas region or Crimea.
“We are providing them intelligence to conduct operations in the Donbas, that’s correct,” Austin said in response to the question from Republican Sen. Tom Cotton of Arkansas.
Austin did not mention Crimea in his response. He also stated the US is not discouraging Ukraine from launching attacks against Russian forces in these areas.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/04/07/politics/us-intel-ukraine-donbas-operations/index.html

This is actually a big deal.

That they stated it out loud or that they’re actually doing it?

I mean, both? I thought they might keep things on the west side of the previous line of contact.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 17:28:32
From: dv
ID: 1870508
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 17:31:30
From: diddly-squat
ID: 1870511
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


diddly-squat said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

What are they now?

an authoritarian democracy

No serious observers regard Russia as a real democracy.

The only opposition permitted are those that Putin allows, many of whom are on his payroll.

True opposition figures are arrested, murdered or flee.

Russia many not be very democratic, but it is a democracy in that parliament is made up of elected representatives

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 17:40:07
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1870514
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Witty Rejoinder said:


furious said:

You also often hear them referred to as a kleptocracy…

Yeah.

I even heard an am American DW interviewer saying that to a Russian reporter.

He was grilling the reporter, which I found annoying.

Look Nazi Germany was a keloptocracy, it paid for itself by stealing artworks from museums, gold from the wealthy, Raubkunst.

That’s the most recent I can think of. The Vikings were said to be kleptocrats, stealing from monasteries and other places.

Pirates were and are kleptocrats. And that includes old nations like Somalia, Malacca, and the United Arab Republic.

The Spanish in the New World were kleptocrats.

Russia isn’t a kleptocracy. They don’t steal as much as Wall Street.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 17:42:27
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1870516
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

diddly-squat said:


Bubblecar said:

diddly-squat said:

an authoritarian democracy

No serious observers regard Russia as a real democracy.

The only opposition permitted are those that Putin allows, many of whom are on his payroll.

True opposition figures are arrested, murdered or flee.

Russia many not be very democratic, but it is a democracy in that parliament is made up of elected representatives

It’s not a democracy when the system is rigged to support the president and ruling party, when the bulk of the opposition are “Kremlin-approved”, and any true opposition figures know they are putting their lives on the line.

From the Freedom House link (plenty more there, please have a read):

As with past elections, President Putin’s 2018 reelection campaign benefited from advantages including preferential media treatment, numerous abuses of incumbency, and procedural irregularities during the vote count. His most influential rival, Aleksey Navalny, was disqualified before the campaign began due to a politically motivated criminal conviction, creating what the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) called “a lack of genuine competition.” The funding sources for Putin’s campaign were also notably opaque.

….Half of Duma members are elected by nationwide proportional representation, and the other half are elected in single-member districts, with all serving five-year terms. Electoral rules are designed to benefit the ruling party, United Russia.

In the 2021 Duma elections, United Russia won 324 seats, maintaining its supermajority. The main Kremlin-approved opposition parties—the Communist Party, A Just Russia, the Liberal Democratic Party of Russia (LDPR), and the New People party—won the bulk of the remainder, totaling 118 seats. Three smaller parties and five independents garnered 8 seats. The Central Election Commission reported a voter turnout of 52 percent, up from 48 percent in 2016.

…The OSCE was unable to send an observation mission due to new government-imposed restrictions on the number of observers. The Russian election-monitoring group Golos and independent media reported numerous violations, including vote buying, pressure on voters, “clone” candidates, and ballot stuffing. Under pressure from the authorities, Apple and Google removed the Navalny-backed Smart Voting mobile application from their online stores; the app was designed to inform citizens on how to avoid splitting the opposition vote in their respective districts. Some opposition candidates were not permitted to register, including associates of Navalny’s organization. In Moscow, early results showed challengers to United Russia leading in several districts, but pro-Kremlin candidates were later declared the victors in each of these districts after delayed online-voting results were released, prompting further accusations of fraud.

….Russia’s electoral system is designed to maintain the dominance of United Russia. The authorities make frequent changes to electoral laws and the timing of elections in order to secure advantages for their preferred candidates. Opposition candidates have little chance of success in appealing these decisions, or in securing a level playing field. In 2020, Putin signed a law permitting the use of electronic voting across Russia, raising concerns about the security and secrecy of ballots in the 2021 Duma polls and other future elections. Also that year, the president signed a law allowing a three-day voting period in future elections; critics argued that the expanded timeframe increased officials’ ability to manipulate electoral outcomes.

….The multiparty system is carefully managed by the Kremlin, which tolerates only superficial competition against the ruling party. A 2012 law liberalized party registration rules, allowing the creation of hundreds of new parties. However, none posed a significant political threat to the authorities, and many seemed designed to encourage division and confusion among the opposition. The Justice Ministry has repeatedly refused to register Navalny’s political party. In June 2021, Navalny’s Anti-Corruption Foundation (FBK) was declared an extremist organization, effectively preventing anyone associated with it from running for office.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 17:45:20
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1870518
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

mollwollfumble said:


Witty Rejoinder said:

furious said:

You also often hear them referred to as a kleptocracy…

Yeah.

I even heard an am American DW interviewer saying that to a Russian reporter.

He was grilling the reporter, which I found annoying.

Look Nazi Germany was a keloptocracy, it paid for itself by stealing artworks from museums, gold from the wealthy, Raubkunst.

That’s the most recent I can think of. The Vikings were said to be kleptocrats, stealing from monasteries and other places.

Pirates were and are kleptocrats. And that includes old nations like Somalia, Malacca, and the United Arab Republic.

The Spanish in the New World were kleptocrats.

Russia isn’t a kleptocracy. They don’t steal as much as Wall Street.

Your ignorance is laughable, as usual.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 18:15:19
From: dv
ID: 1870523
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

diddly-squat said:


Bubblecar said:

diddly-squat said:

an authoritarian democracy

No serious observers regard Russia as a real democracy.

The only opposition permitted are those that Putin allows, many of whom are on his payroll.

True opposition figures are arrested, murdered or flee.

Russia many not be very democratic, but it is a democracy in that parliament is made up of elected representatives

Oh cool, like China.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 18:15:24
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1870524
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Witty Rejoinder said:


ChrispenEvan said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Well it’s not in agreeance with the wider media.

it appears to me to be made up of verifiable facts.

I disagree. It’s written by an apologist for Putin. In the current French presidential race a far-right extremist is polling 10%. Does that similarly reflect on the French people as Nazis?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medea_Benjamin

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Davies

I disagree with your assessment.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 18:25:32
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1870528
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

ChrispenEvan said:


Witty Rejoinder said:

ChrispenEvan said:

it appears to me to be made up of verifiable facts.

I disagree. It’s written by an apologist for Putin. In the current French presidential race a far-right extremist is polling 10%. Does that similarly reflect on the French people as Nazis?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medea_Benjamin

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Davies

I disagree with your assessment.

The hard Old Left (of which those people are adherents) are united with the Trumpian Right in their support for Putin’s fascist regime, and their hatred of anything Western.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 18:39:52
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1870530
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

diddly-squat said:


Bubblecar said:

diddly-squat said:

an authoritarian democracy

No serious observers regard Russia as a real democracy.

The only opposition permitted are those that Putin allows, many of whom are on his payroll.

True opposition figures are arrested, murdered or flee.

Russia many not be very democratic, but it is a democracy in that parliament is made up of elected representatives

But if the election process is sufficiently controlled, can it still be said to be democratic?

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/odr/russian-opposition-inside-or-outside-system/

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 18:41:41
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1870531
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

The Rev Dodgson said:


diddly-squat said:

Bubblecar said:

No serious observers regard Russia as a real democracy.

The only opposition permitted are those that Putin allows, many of whom are on his payroll.

True opposition figures are arrested, murdered or flee.

Russia many not be very democratic, but it is a democracy in that parliament is made up of elected representatives

But if the election process is sufficiently controlled, can it still be said to be democratic?

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/odr/russian-opposition-inside-or-outside-system/

a Mockcracy?

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 18:48:04
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1870532
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:

diddly-squat said:

Bubblecar said:

No serious observers regard Russia as a real democracy.

The only opposition permitted are those that Putin allows, many of whom are on his payroll.

True opposition figures are arrested, murdered or flee.

Russia many not be very democratic, but it is a democracy in that parliament is made up of elected representatives

Oh cool, like China.

democratic like Congo-Kinshasa, democratic, like

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 19:01:15
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1870534
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:

dv said:

diddly-squat said:

Russia many not be very democratic, but it is a democracy in that parliament is made up of elected representatives

Oh cool, like China.

democratic like Congo-Kinshasa, democratic, like

I can’t remember which comedian/satirist said it, but if a country’s name starts with ‘the people’s democratic republic’, you can be sure that the country is none of those three things.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 19:19:21
From: dv
ID: 1870535
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Meanwhile Jeremy Corbyn was warning about Putin at a time when Blair was flying to Moscow to embrace him.

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/jeremy-corbyns-2001-warning-about-valdimir-putin-resurfaces-314188/

“When the Prime Minister travels to Moscow—I imagine that he is already on his way there—and meets President Putin this evening, I hope that he will convey the condemnation of millions of people around the world of the activities of the Russian army in Chechnya and of what it is doing to ordinary people there. When images of what is happening are translated into other parts of the world, many people are horrified, just as we are horrified by what happened to the World Trade Centre and the Pentagon on 11 September.

If we are serious about the rule of law and human rights, we must be very careful to condemn abuses of human rights, whoever commits them, whoever they are committed against and however uncomfortable or inconvenient it is for us to do so. If we are not consistent, we will, understandably, receive the charge of hypocrisy.”

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 19:54:07
From: party_pants
ID: 1870550
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


SCIENCE said:

dv said:

Oh cool, like China.

democratic like Congo-Kinshasa, democratic, like

I can’t remember which comedian/satirist said it, but if a country’s name starts with ‘the people’s democratic republic’, you can be sure that the country is none of those three things.

I think there was something similar in Yes Prime Minister.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 20:26:53
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1870563
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 20:41:43
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1870574
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

sarahs mum said:


we mean it really would seem quite incongruous even to us if we were here having smashed avocado on sourdough one week and then being genocided by fake-communist national-socialists the next but hey we have no religious affiliation so what would we know

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 20:54:28
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1870580
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Have heard of some more horrible atrocities being committed in the Ukraine, and videos of Russian tanks going BOOM seem to lift the spirits.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1512034618215739397

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 20:59:31
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1870583
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:

sarahs mum said:


we mean it really would seem quite incongruous even to us if we were here having smashed avocado on sourdough one week and then being genocided by fake-communist national-socialists the next but hey we have no religious affiliation so what would we know

I’m getting old.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 21:00:48
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1870584
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:

Have heard of some more horrible atrocities being committed in the Ukraine, and videos of Russian tanks going BOOM seem to lift the spirits.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1512034618215739397

It’s spectacular, but four people died in that.

Russian soldiers, yes, but human beings nonetheless. They had mothers and fathers and sisters and brothers and maybe wives and children.

Whatever they’d done, or not done, or whether they wanted to be there or not, they died a sudden, unexpected and probably horrible death.

Maybe they deserved to die, maybe not. But they’re gone for good in that flash and bang. They won’t be going home, their families won’t see them again.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 21:22:57
From: Kingy
ID: 1870597
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Dark Orange said:

Have heard of some more horrible atrocities being committed in the Ukraine, and videos of Russian tanks going BOOM seem to lift the spirits.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1512034618215739397

It’s spectacular, but four people died in that.

Russian soldiers, yes, but human beings nonetheless. They had mothers and fathers and sisters and brothers and maybe wives and children.

Whatever they’d done, or not done, or whether they wanted to be there or not, they died a sudden, unexpected and probably horrible death.

Maybe they deserved to die, maybe not. But they’re gone for good in that flash and bang. They won’t be going home, their families won’t see them again.

Poor people get a job in the military to get a minimum wage(in order to not starve), and are commanded to kill other poor people(who are also starving), by the command of the rich people who would never have to do either. Just because the incredibly rich people in charge of them just want to be even more incredibly rich.

Those rich fuckers deserve to die.

Bring back the guillotine. It’s time to re-distribute the wealth.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 21:28:12
From: Kingy
ID: 1870600
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Kingy said:


captain_spalding said:

Dark Orange said:

Have heard of some more horrible atrocities being committed in the Ukraine, and videos of Russian tanks going BOOM seem to lift the spirits.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1512034618215739397

It’s spectacular, but four people died in that.

Russian soldiers, yes, but human beings nonetheless. They had mothers and fathers and sisters and brothers and maybe wives and children.

Whatever they’d done, or not done, or whether they wanted to be there or not, they died a sudden, unexpected and probably horrible death.

Maybe they deserved to die, maybe not. But they’re gone for good in that flash and bang. They won’t be going home, their families won’t see them again.

Poor people get a job in the military to get a minimum wage(in order to not starve), and are commanded to kill other poor people(who are also starving), by the command of the rich people who would never have to do either. Just because the incredibly rich people in charge of them just want to be even more incredibly rich.

Those rich fuckers deserve to die.

Bring back the guillotine. It’s time to re-distribute the wealth.

I may have said that out loud. My bad.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 21:29:17
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1870601
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Kingy said:


captain_spalding said:

Dark Orange said:

Have heard of some more horrible atrocities being committed in the Ukraine, and videos of Russian tanks going BOOM seem to lift the spirits.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1512034618215739397

It’s spectacular, but four people died in that.

Russian soldiers, yes, but human beings nonetheless. They had mothers and fathers and sisters and brothers and maybe wives and children.

Whatever they’d done, or not done, or whether they wanted to be there or not, they died a sudden, unexpected and probably horrible death.

Maybe they deserved to die, maybe not. But they’re gone for good in that flash and bang. They won’t be going home, their families won’t see them again.

Poor people get a job in the military to get a minimum wage(in order to not starve), and are commanded to kill other poor people(who are also starving), by the command of the rich people who would never have to do either. Just because the incredibly rich people in charge of them just want to be even more incredibly rich.

Those rich fuckers deserve to die.

Bring back the guillotine. It’s time to re-distribute the wealth.

oh how the turntables … uh … have a … um, rotation, no that’s not quite it, a rotate, revolve, ah that’s it, a

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 21:37:12
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1870604
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Dark Orange said:

Have heard of some more horrible atrocities being committed in the Ukraine, and videos of Russian tanks going BOOM seem to lift the spirits.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1512034618215739397

It’s spectacular, but four people died in that.

Russian soldiers, yes, but human beings nonetheless. They had mothers and fathers and sisters and brothers and maybe wives and children.

Whatever they’d done, or not done, or whether they wanted to be there or not, they died a sudden, unexpected and probably horrible death.

Maybe they deserved to die, maybe not. But they’re gone for good in that flash and bang. They won’t be going home, their families won’t see them again.

I agree with the sentiments but Russian tanks have a crew of 3, not 4.

And they weren’t necessarily in this vehicle at the time. Given that it’s sitting there doing nothing and is not apparently hit by a missile (and the person filming is not under any kind of cover) it may have been demolition of abandoned or damaged equipment that was not worth repairing.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 21:50:38
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1870610
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:

captain_spalding said:

Dark Orange said:

Have heard of some more horrible atrocities being committed in the Ukraine, and videos of Russian tanks going BOOM seem to lift the spirits.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1512034618215739397

It’s spectacular, but four people died in that.

Russian soldiers, yes, but human beings nonetheless. They had mothers and fathers and sisters and brothers and maybe wives and children.

Whatever they’d done, or not done, or whether they wanted to be there or not, they died a sudden, unexpected and probably horrible death.

Maybe they deserved to die, maybe not. But they’re gone for good in that flash and bang. They won’t be going home, their families won’t see them again.

I agree with the sentiments but Russian tanks have a crew of 3, not 4.

And they weren’t necessarily in this vehicle at the time. Given that it’s sitting there doing nothing and is not apparently hit by a missile (and the person filming is not under any kind of cover) it may have been demolition of abandoned or damaged equipment that was not worth repairing.

but yeah fuck Marky McG must be laughing what with anyone worried about the price of iron going down

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 22:21:39
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1870620
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:

Bubblecar said:

captain_spalding said:

It’s spectacular, but four people died in that.

Russian soldiers, yes, but human beings nonetheless. They had mothers and fathers and sisters and brothers and maybe wives and children.

Whatever they’d done, or not done, or whether they wanted to be there or not, they died a sudden, unexpected and probably horrible death.

Maybe they deserved to die, maybe not. But they’re gone for good in that flash and bang. They won’t be going home, their families won’t see them again.

I agree with the sentiments but Russian tanks have a crew of 3, not 4.

And they weren’t necessarily in this vehicle at the time. Given that it’s sitting there doing nothing and is not apparently hit by a missile (and the person filming is not under any kind of cover) it may have been demolition of abandoned or damaged equipment that was not worth repairing.

but yeah fuck Marky McG must be laughing what with anyone worried about the price of iron going down

Look closely and you can see the wire jumping in the foreground.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 22:29:12
From: furious
ID: 1870623
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


SCIENCE said:

Bubblecar said:

I agree with the sentiments but Russian tanks have a crew of 3, not 4.

And they weren’t necessarily in this vehicle at the time. Given that it’s sitting there doing nothing and is not apparently hit by a missile (and the person filming is not under any kind of cover) it may have been demolition of abandoned or damaged equipment that was not worth repairing.

but yeah fuck Marky McG must be laughing what with anyone worried about the price of iron going down

Look closely and you can see the wire jumping in the foreground.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 22:30:05
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1870624
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

furious said:


Bubblecar said:

SCIENCE said:

but yeah fuck Marky McG must be laughing what with anyone worried about the price of iron going down

Look closely and you can see the wire jumping in the foreground.


While that’s a fine meme, it’s relevance here is rather vague.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 22:32:14
From: furious
ID: 1870625
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


furious said:

Bubblecar said:

Look closely and you can see the wire jumping in the foreground.


While that’s a fine meme, it’s relevance here is rather vague.

Basically, all this back tracking, ooh I hope no one was in it. So, what if there was, they’re an invading force, screw them…

Reply Quote

Date: 8/04/2022 22:38:33
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1870629
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

furious said:


Bubblecar said:

furious said:


While that’s a fine meme, it’s relevance here is rather vague.

Basically, all this back tracking, ooh I hope no one was in it. So, what if there was, they’re an invading force, screw them…

I agree, but in this case, it was clearly a demolition of equipment.

Ukrainians didn’t think it was worth repairing but the Russians might, so blow it up and let them repair that :)

As for the tanks destroyed while the crews are in them, let’s remember they have no business rolling into a peaceful nation, intent on shooting people up on the orders of their demented dictator and his sordid regime of yes-men.

And most of the Russian tank “action” so far has consisted of shooting up residential buildings.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2022 15:11:07
From: dv
ID: 1870753
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

https://caymannewsservice.com/2022/04/cayman-freezes-us7-3-billion-of-russian-assets/

CNS): Since the Russian invasion of Ukraine in February, more than 800 asset freeze designations of individuals and entities have been enforced in the Cayman Islands, officials said in a release about the creation of a task force to coordinate the new sanctions regime.

In compliance with their obligations under the Russia (Sanctions) (Overseas Territories) Order 2020, numerous financial service providers (FSPs) have submitted over 400 compliance reporting forms confirming that assets with an estimated value of US$7.3 billion have been frozen.

The government has created a joint task force to deal with policy amendments required to implement the Russia Sanctions here. The sanctions impact multiple public sector agencies, and this cross-government team is part of Cayman’s pro-active response, officials said. The goal is to provide a central point around policy and communication.

——

All the tax havens are playing ball. I wonder what is happening behind the scenes to make this happen.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2022 15:13:51
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1870755
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


https://caymannewsservice.com/2022/04/cayman-freezes-us7-3-billion-of-russian-assets/

CNS): Since the Russian invasion of Ukraine in February, more than 800 asset freeze designations of individuals and entities have been enforced in the Cayman Islands, officials said in a release about the creation of a task force to coordinate the new sanctions regime.

In compliance with their obligations under the Russia (Sanctions) (Overseas Territories) Order 2020, numerous financial service providers (FSPs) have submitted over 400 compliance reporting forms confirming that assets with an estimated value of US$7.3 billion have been frozen.

The government has created a joint task force to deal with policy amendments required to implement the Russia Sanctions here. The sanctions impact multiple public sector agencies, and this cross-government team is part of Cayman’s pro-active response, officials said. The goal is to provide a central point around policy and communication.

——

All the tax havens are playing ball. I wonder what is happening behind the scenes to make this happen.

+1

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2022 15:21:27
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1870758
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

sarahs mum said:


dv said:

https://caymannewsservice.com/2022/04/cayman-freezes-us7-3-billion-of-russian-assets/

CNS): Since the Russian invasion of Ukraine in February, more than 800 asset freeze designations of individuals and entities have been enforced in the Cayman Islands, officials said in a release about the creation of a task force to coordinate the new sanctions regime.

In compliance with their obligations under the Russia (Sanctions) (Overseas Territories) Order 2020, numerous financial service providers (FSPs) have submitted over 400 compliance reporting forms confirming that assets with an estimated value of US$7.3 billion have been frozen.

The government has created a joint task force to deal with policy amendments required to implement the Russia Sanctions here. The sanctions impact multiple public sector agencies, and this cross-government team is part of Cayman’s pro-active response, officials said. The goal is to provide a central point around policy and communication.

——

All the tax havens are playing ball. I wonder what is happening behind the scenes to make this happen.

+1

I assume there must be some ostensible bedrock of ethical constraint required to keep such operations viable, at least amongst the many members of polite society who use them.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2022 16:55:53
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1870796
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


https://caymannewsservice.com/2022/04/cayman-freezes-us7-3-billion-of-russian-assets/

CNS): Since the Russian invasion of Ukraine in February, more than 800 asset freeze designations of individuals and entities have been enforced in the Cayman Islands, officials said in a release about the creation of a task force to coordinate the new sanctions regime.

In compliance with their obligations under the Russia (Sanctions) (Overseas Territories) Order 2020, numerous financial service providers (FSPs) have submitted over 400 compliance reporting forms confirming that assets with an estimated value of US$7.3 billion have been frozen.

The government has created a joint task force to deal with policy amendments required to implement the Russia Sanctions here. The sanctions impact multiple public sector agencies, and this cross-government team is part of Cayman’s pro-active response, officials said. The goal is to provide a central point around policy and communication.

——

All the tax havens are playing ball. I wonder what is happening behind the scenes to make this happen.

Who gets to keep the assets? If it is the financial institution holding them, then there’s your answer.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2022 16:59:10
From: dv
ID: 1870801
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

https://youtu.be/rStL7niR7gs

At some point, the cost of keeping Putin in power will become too great for those around him.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2022 17:00:18
From: roughbarked
ID: 1870803
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


https://youtu.be/rStL7niR7gs

At some point, the cost of keeping Putin in power will become too great for those around him.

How long do we have to wait? It has been over 30 years now.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2022 17:07:20
From: dv
ID: 1870805
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2022 17:10:00
From: dv
ID: 1870806
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

roughbarked said:


dv said:

https://youtu.be/rStL7niR7gs

At some point, the cost of keeping Putin in power will become too great for those around him.

How long do we have to wait? It has been over 30 years now.

Okay in fairness he’s only been in power 22 years and until like 6 weeks ago most of his inner circle were still on a pretty good wicket.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2022 17:11:33
From: roughbarked
ID: 1870807
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


roughbarked said:

dv said:

https://youtu.be/rStL7niR7gs

At some point, the cost of keeping Putin in power will become too great for those around him.

How long do we have to wait? It has been over 30 years now.

Okay in fairness he’s only been in power 22 years and until like 6 weeks ago most of his inner circle were still on a pretty good wicket.

:)

Yes but hhis evil plans were hatched 30 years ago and they were all pawns in his game.
Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2022 17:11:35
From: JudgeMental
ID: 1870808
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1981_Pushkin_Tu-104_crash

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2022 17:11:47
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1870809
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:



It’s sad but true.

Stolen toys have been snapped amongst the debris surrounding destroyed Russian vehicles. This from the regions where they were retreating after massacres of civilians.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2022 17:50:31
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1870814
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

roughbarked said:


dv said:

https://youtu.be/rStL7niR7gs

At some point, the cost of keeping Putin in power will become too great for those around him.

How long do we have to wait? It has been over 30 years now.

According to the link above, he has controlled the money well and has kept his key supporters happy. Now with economic restrictions imposed upon Russia, Putin will find it more difficult to control the money so his key supporters will become dissatisfied that might lead to his replacement once his grip on power is loosened.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2022 19:51:39
From: dv
ID: 1870874
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/03/world/europe/ukraine-crisis.html

8 years ago…

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2022 19:55:42
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1870876
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/03/world/europe/ukraine-crisis.html

8 years ago…

if only he’d bitten the bullet then, no good giving the opponent 8 years to prepare, seriously

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2022 19:58:02
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1870879
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

IL:n tiedot: Suomi valmistautuu hakemaan Nato-jäsenyyttä TP-Utvan antamalla lisäkirjauksella

Iltalehden tietojen mukaan Suomi valmistautuu hakemaan Nato-jäsenyyttä lisäkirjauksella, jonka tasavallan presidentin ja valtioneuvoston ulko- ja turvallisuuspoliittinen ministerivaliokunta (TP-Utva) voi antaa selonteon eduskuntakäsittelyn aikana.

Ulkoministeri Pekka Haavisto (vihr) vahvistaa Iltalehden tiedon, että tarvittaessa on valmius laatia toinen selonteko, jos TP-Utva esittäisi Nato-jäsenyyttä, ja antaa Nato-kannan sisältävä lisäys eduskunnalle.

https://www.iltalehti.fi/politiikka/a/865bf723-4d71-40a6-8f9d-6ceadb8ce405

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2022 20:02:50
From: dv
ID: 1870880
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:


IL:n tiedot: Suomi valmistautuu hakemaan Nato-jäsenyyttä TP-Utvan antamalla lisäkirjauksella

Iltalehden tietojen mukaan Suomi valmistautuu hakemaan Nato-jäsenyyttä lisäkirjauksella, jonka tasavallan presidentin ja valtioneuvoston ulko- ja turvallisuuspoliittinen ministerivaliokunta (TP-Utva) voi antaa selonteon eduskuntakäsittelyn aikana.

Ulkoministeri Pekka Haavisto (vihr) vahvistaa Iltalehden tiedon, että tarvittaessa on valmius laatia toinen selonteko, jos TP-Utva esittäisi Nato-jäsenyyttä, ja antaa Nato-kannan sisältävä lisäys eduskunnalle.

https://www.iltalehti.fi/politiikka/a/865bf723-4d71-40a6-8f9d-6ceadb8ce405

There are some nuts that will be harder to crack.
Apparently Austria’s constitution would need to be modified to allow Nato membership.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2022 20:04:14
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1870882
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


https://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/03/world/europe/ukraine-crisis.html

8 years ago…

Still unavailable in Queensland.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2022 20:09:11
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1870884
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2022 20:21:45
From: dv
ID: 1870888
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

IDK how much to believe this but a lot of the live tracking maps are showing the Russian forces have completely withdrawn from Northern and Central Ukraine.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2022 20:33:18
From: Ian
ID: 1870895
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:



:)

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2022 21:10:33
From: dv
ID: 1870935
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2022 21:40:56
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1870943
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


wasn’t it obvious the first time it was posted

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2022 21:42:26
From: dv
ID: 1870947
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:

dv said:


wasn’t it obvious the first time it was posted

No

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2022 21:45:01
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1870950
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:

SCIENCE said:

dv said:


wasn’t it obvious the first time it was posted

No

oh

so what were they planning to hide then

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2022 21:46:59
From: dv
ID: 1870953
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/04/08/opinions/barack-obama-russia-revisionism-cupp/index.html

Opinion: Obama’s stunning blind spot on Russia

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2022 21:57:06
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1870956
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/04/08/opinions/barack-obama-russia-revisionism-cupp/index.html

Opinion: Obama’s stunning blind spot on Russia

Romney wasn’t prescient in 2012, he was merely sentient, seeing Putin for who he clearly was and understanding the threats.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2022 22:22:30
From: dv
ID: 1870960
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:

dv said:

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/04/08/opinions/barack-obama-russia-revisionism-cupp/index.html

Opinion: Obama’s stunning blind spot on Russia

Romney wasn’t prescient in 2012, he was merely sentient, seeing Putin for who he clearly was and understanding the threats.

“Time traveller from 2006 warns 2012 Obama about Putin”

Reply Quote

Date: 10/04/2022 01:01:54
From: sibeen
ID: 1871018
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

EU to pledge 1 billion euros for Ukraine
The European Commission is pledging one billion euros to support Ukraine and countries receiving refugees fleeing the war following Russia’s invasion, Ursula von der Leyen said.

As Germany is buying 200 million euros a day of Russian gas I’m slightly underwhelmed.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/04/2022 01:23:49
From: dv
ID: 1871021
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Taken as a whole, the world can ramp up production to replace Russian gas exports in reasonably short order, but Europe would suffer a supply crunch. They don’t have plans to build more LNG terminals but you can’t pop them up in a weekend.

This is an interesting and fairly comprehensive piece. Cutting off Russian gas will pain Europe but would cripple Russia and I suppose the hope would be that the enemy would fold quickly.

https://qz.com/2152037/why-its-so-hard-to-cut-off-gas-trade-between-russia-and-europe/

Reply Quote

Date: 10/04/2022 08:23:31
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1871037
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

sibeen said:


EU to pledge 1 billion euros for Ukraine
The European Commission is pledging one billion euros to support Ukraine and countries receiving refugees fleeing the war following Russia’s invasion, Ursula von der Leyen said.

As Germany is buying 200 million euros a day of Russian gas I’m slightly underwhelmed.

Is Germany trying to stop a nuclear reaction. I wonder if Putin does have a terminal illness and does he want to a reason to push that button?

Does Germany want to keep the door open to a cease fire and end of the war sooner?

Reply Quote

Date: 10/04/2022 08:24:53
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1871038
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

monkey skipper said:

I wonder if Putin does have a terminal illness and does he want to a reason to push that button?

Indeed we have wondered.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/04/2022 10:15:34
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1871065
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

‘Kill them all, for f**k sake’: Shocking intercepted audio reveals conversation between Russian soldiers

Ukrainian officials say there is new audio from intercepted radio traffic revealing Russian soldiers killing and raping civilians. CNN’s Matthew Chance reports.

Source: CNN

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2022/04/08/audio-intercepts-russian-soldiers-chance-vpx.cnn

Reply Quote

Date: 10/04/2022 10:32:05
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1871066
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Russia’s spies are being hammered, too. On April 7th Austria, for many years a hub for Russian espionage, became the latest country to expel suspected Russian intelligence officers, bringing the total number of Russian officials expelled from America and Europe since the war began to more than 400.

https://www.economist.com/europe/2022/04/07/russian-spooks-are-being-kicked-out-of-europe-en-masse

The mass expulsions, the largest in history, are likely to have lasting effects on Vladimir Putin’s intelligence services and their ability to spy—and to subvert—in Europe.

The ejection of spooks on this scale is unprecedented. It is more than double the number booted out in 2018, when 28 Western countries expelled 153 suspected spies in response to Russia’s attempted assassination of Sergei Skripal, a former Russian intelligence officer who had spied for Britain, in Salisbury, England.

Russian intelligence presence in some European countries had grown so large that it was becoming hard for local security services to keep tabs on suspected and proven spies. Last year a German spy chief said that Russian spying stood at the same levels as during the cold war. Before the most recent expulsions, there were estimated to be almost 1,000 undeclared Russian intelligence officers in embassies and consulates in Europe.

Making this sort of thing harder is sensible, but it comes at a cost because Russia responds in kind. After the Skripal expulsions, Russia kicked out 189 Western officials. One result is that bona fide diplomats—who are invariably part of the exodus—have less opportunity to engage ordinary Russians, at a time when state propaganda is growing more unhinged. This is why foreign ministries are often less keen on expulsions than security officials. In practice, this may be less of a problem than it seems.

Maybe this will start to reverse the increasing right wing extremism flamefanning in those countries.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/04/2022 10:38:07
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1871070
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back


Reply Quote

Date: 10/04/2022 11:39:18
From: dv
ID: 1871103
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:




Not many people know that Jimmy Saville and Prince Andrew are from the Seychelles

Reply Quote

Date: 10/04/2022 11:41:42
From: JudgeMental
ID: 1871106
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


SCIENCE said:



Not many people know that Jimmy Saville and Prince Andrew are from the Seychelles

JS also came to my mind when I read that.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/04/2022 11:41:51
From: dv
ID: 1871107
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:


monkey skipper said:

I wonder if Putin does have a terminal illness and does he want to a reason to push that button?

Indeed we have wondered.

Unlike the US, Russia’s president doesn’t have unchallenged authority to launch nuclear weapons. There’s something of a process.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/04/2022 11:51:38
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1871114
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

JudgeMental said:


dv said:

SCIENCE said:



Not many people know that Jimmy Saville and Prince Andrew are from the Seychelles

JS also came to my mind when I read that.

A Canadian writer told of being in Germany when the Canadian runner Ben Johnson was stripped of his Olympic (Seoul 1988) wins for drug cheating.

A waiter saw the headline about the matter on the Canadian’s newspaper.

‘Ach’, he said in English, ‘Ben Johnson, very bad, not good for Canada’.

‘Well’, said the Canadian, ‘you know, he’s originally from Jamaica’.

The waiter looked around to see if anyone else was within hearing, and said quietly, “Ja, und Adolf Hitler: Austria”.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/04/2022 13:00:46
From: dv
ID: 1871141
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Russian President Vladimir Putin has appointed a new general to direct the war in Ukraine as his military shifts plans after a failure to take Kyiv, according to a US official and a European official.

The officials told CNN Army Gen. Alexander Dvornikov, commander of Russia’s Southern Military District, has been named theater commander of Russia’s military campaign in Ukraine

A new theater commander with extensive combat experience could bring a level of coordination to an assault now expected to focus on the Donbas region, instead of multiple fronts.

Dvornikov, 60, was the first commander of Russia’s military operations in Syria, after Putin sent troops there in September 2015 to back the government of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad. During Dvornikov’s command in Syria from September 2015 to June 2016, Russian aircraft backed the Assad regime and its allies as they laid siege to rebel-held eastern Aleppo, bombarding densely populated neighborhoods and causing major civilian casualties. The city fell to Syrian government forces in December 2016.

https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-putin-news-04-09-22/h_ff5483c56912605145a6806accf7b402

Reply Quote

Date: 10/04/2022 13:03:56
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1871143
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


Russian President Vladimir Putin has appointed a new general to direct the war in Ukraine as his military shifts plans after a failure to take Kyiv, according to a US official and a European official.

The officials told CNN Army Gen. Alexander Dvornikov, commander of Russia’s Southern Military District, has been named theater commander of Russia’s military campaign in Ukraine

A new theater commander with extensive combat experience could bring a level of coordination to an assault now expected to focus on the Donbas region, instead of multiple fronts.

Dvornikov, 60, was the first commander of Russia’s military operations in Syria, after Putin sent troops there in September 2015 to back the government of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad. During Dvornikov’s command in Syria from September 2015 to June 2016, Russian aircraft backed the Assad regime and its allies as they laid siege to rebel-held eastern Aleppo, bombarding densely populated neighborhoods and causing major civilian casualties. The city fell to Syrian government forces in December 2016.

https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-putin-news-04-09-22/h_ff5483c56912605145a6806accf7b402

I imagine that the previous commander is now a lance-corporal, peeling spuds at a weather station on Wrangel Island.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/04/2022 19:16:11
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1871275
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


dv said:

Russian President Vladimir Putin has appointed a new general to direct the war in Ukraine as his military shifts plans after a failure to take Kyiv, according to a US official and a European official.

The officials told CNN Army Gen. Alexander Dvornikov, commander of Russia’s Southern Military District, has been named theater commander of Russia’s military campaign in Ukraine

A new theater commander with extensive combat experience could bring a level of coordination to an assault now expected to focus on the Donbas region, instead of multiple fronts.

Dvornikov, 60, was the first commander of Russia’s military operations in Syria, after Putin sent troops there in September 2015 to back the government of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad. During Dvornikov’s command in Syria from September 2015 to June 2016, Russian aircraft backed the Assad regime and its allies as they laid siege to rebel-held eastern Aleppo, bombarding densely populated neighborhoods and causing major civilian casualties. The city fell to Syrian government forces in December 2016.

https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-putin-news-04-09-22/h_ff5483c56912605145a6806accf7b402

I imagine that the previous commander is now a lance-corporal, peeling spuds at a weather station on Wrangel Island.

I am not sure there actually was a previous commander in charge of the invasion.

Meanwhile…

https://www.reuters.com/world/russia-complained-turkey-over-drones-sales-ukraine-turkish-bureaucrat-2022-04-08/

“Russia has complained to Turkey over its sale of Bayraktar TB2 armed drones to Ukraine, a high level Turkish bureaucrat said on Friday, but added the sales were by a private Turkish company and not state-to-state deals.”

Reply Quote

Date: 10/04/2022 22:37:32
From: dv
ID: 1871343
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-putin-news-04-10-22/h_892b884ecacd2ed726131bca647d5627

Satellite images collected and analyzed by Maxar Technologies show an eight-mile-long military convoy moving south through the eastern Ukraine town of Velkyi Burluk on April 8.

The town sits to the east of Kharkiv, close to Ukraine’s border with Russia.

—-

Reply Quote

Date: 10/04/2022 23:29:51
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1871349
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-putin-news-04-10-22/h_892b884ecacd2ed726131bca647d5627

Satellite images collected and analyzed by Maxar Technologies show an eight-mile-long military convoy moving south through the eastern Ukraine town of Velkyi Burluk on April 8.

The town sits to the east of Kharkiv, close to Ukraine’s border with Russia.

—-

Reply Quote

Date: 11/04/2022 09:59:01
From: Michael V
ID: 1871435
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Russian forces who occupied the Chernobyl nuclear plant stole radioactive substances from research laboratories that could potentially kill them, Ukraine’s State Agency for Managing the Exclusion Zone said on Sunday.

It said the Russians entered a storage area of the Ecocentre research base and stole 133 highly radioactive substances.

“Even a small part of this activity is deadly if handled unprofessionally,” the agency said.

“They dug bare soil contaminated with radiation, collected radioactive sand in bags for fortification, breathed this dust,” Mr Gulashchenko said on Facebook on Friday after visiting the exclusion zone.

“After a month of such exposure, they have a maximum of one year of life. More precisely, not life but a slow death from diseases.

———————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-11/russians-stole-radioactive-substance-chernobyl/100981372

Reply Quote

Date: 11/04/2022 10:43:41
From: Cymek
ID: 1871447
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Michael V said:


Russian forces who occupied the Chernobyl nuclear plant stole radioactive substances from research laboratories that could potentially kill them, Ukraine’s State Agency for Managing the Exclusion Zone said on Sunday.

It said the Russians entered a storage area of the Ecocentre research base and stole 133 highly radioactive substances.

“Even a small part of this activity is deadly if handled unprofessionally,” the agency said.

“They dug bare soil contaminated with radiation, collected radioactive sand in bags for fortification, breathed this dust,” Mr Gulashchenko said on Facebook on Friday after visiting the exclusion zone.

“After a month of such exposure, they have a maximum of one year of life. More precisely, not life but a slow death from diseases.

———————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-11/russians-stole-radioactive-substance-chernobyl/100981372

Yeah nasty way to go out.
I wonder why ?
Lies from the higher ups “You’ll be fine comrade” or no information about what happened at Chernobyl so they thought it just a normal forest.
Or they were just stupid.
You’d seriously be thinking about taking yourself out rather than die from radiation sickness

Reply Quote

Date: 11/04/2022 11:01:22
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1871453
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Cymek said:

Michael V said:

Russian forces who occupied the Chernobyl nuclear plant stole radioactive substances from research laboratories that could potentially kill them, Ukraine’s State Agency for Managing the Exclusion Zone said on Sunday.

It said the Russians entered a storage area of the Ecocentre research base and stole 133 highly radioactive substances.

“Even a small part of this activity is deadly if handled unprofessionally,” the agency said.

“They dug bare soil contaminated with radiation, collected radioactive sand in bags for fortification, breathed this dust,” Mr Gulashchenko said on Facebook on Friday after visiting the exclusion zone.

“After a month of such exposure, they have a maximum of one year of life. More precisely, not life but a slow death from diseases.

———————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-11/russians-stole-radioactive-substance-chernobyl/100981372

Yeah nasty way to go out.
I wonder why ?
Lies from the higher ups “You’ll be fine comrade” or no information about what happened at Chernobyl so they thought it just a normal forest.
Or they were just stupid.
You’d seriously be thinking about taking yourself out rather than die from radiation sickness

maybe it’s a scare campaign and they actually sent in the few experts they had who knew relatively well what they were doing

Reply Quote

Date: 11/04/2022 11:04:32
From: Tamb
ID: 1871455
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:

Cymek said:

Michael V said:

Russian forces who occupied the Chernobyl nuclear plant stole radioactive substances from research laboratories that could potentially kill them, Ukraine’s State Agency for Managing the Exclusion Zone said on Sunday.

It said the Russians entered a storage area of the Ecocentre research base and stole 133 highly radioactive substances.

“Even a small part of this activity is deadly if handled unprofessionally,” the agency said.

“They dug bare soil contaminated with radiation, collected radioactive sand in bags for fortification, breathed this dust,” Mr Gulashchenko said on Facebook on Friday after visiting the exclusion zone.

“After a month of such exposure, they have a maximum of one year of life. More precisely, not life but a slow death from diseases.

———————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-11/russians-stole-radioactive-substance-chernobyl/100981372

Yeah nasty way to go out.
I wonder why ?
Lies from the higher ups “You’ll be fine comrade” or no information about what happened at Chernobyl so they thought it just a normal forest.
Or they were just stupid.
You’d seriously be thinking about taking yourself out rather than die from radiation sickness

maybe it’s a scare campaign and they actually sent in the few experts they had who knew relatively well what they were doing


They may have learned something since the reactor melted down.
Back then they were using bio-robots (humans) to clear radioactive rubble from the reactor roof.

Reply Quote

Date: 11/04/2022 11:07:09
From: Cymek
ID: 1871457
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Tamb said:


SCIENCE said:

Cymek said:

Yeah nasty way to go out.
I wonder why ?
Lies from the higher ups “You’ll be fine comrade” or no information about what happened at Chernobyl so they thought it just a normal forest.
Or they were just stupid.
You’d seriously be thinking about taking yourself out rather than die from radiation sickness

maybe it’s a scare campaign and they actually sent in the few experts they had who knew relatively well what they were doing


They may have learned something since the reactor melted down.
Back then they were using bio-robots (humans) to clear radioactive rubble from the reactor roof.

Yes

Reply Quote

Date: 11/04/2022 11:16:53
From: JudgeMental
ID: 1871462
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Michael V said:


Russian forces who occupied the Chernobyl nuclear plant stole radioactive substances from research laboratories that could potentially kill them, Ukraine’s State Agency for Managing the Exclusion Zone said on Sunday.

It said the Russians entered a storage area of the Ecocentre research base and stole 133 highly radioactive substances.

“Even a small part of this activity is deadly if handled unprofessionally,” the agency said.

“They dug bare soil contaminated with radiation, collected radioactive sand in bags for fortification, breathed this dust,” Mr Gulashchenko said on Facebook on Friday after visiting the exclusion zone.

“After a month of such exposure, they have a maximum of one year of life. More precisely, not life but a slow death from diseases.

———————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-11/russians-stole-radioactive-substance-chernobyl/100981372

I wonder if they intend to make some dirty bombs?

Reply Quote

Date: 11/04/2022 11:22:16
From: Tamb
ID: 1871464
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

JudgeMental said:


Michael V said:

Russian forces who occupied the Chernobyl nuclear plant stole radioactive substances from research laboratories that could potentially kill them, Ukraine’s State Agency for Managing the Exclusion Zone said on Sunday.

It said the Russians entered a storage area of the Ecocentre research base and stole 133 highly radioactive substances.

“Even a small part of this activity is deadly if handled unprofessionally,” the agency said.

“They dug bare soil contaminated with radiation, collected radioactive sand in bags for fortification, breathed this dust,” Mr Gulashchenko said on Facebook on Friday after visiting the exclusion zone.

“After a month of such exposure, they have a maximum of one year of life. More precisely, not life but a slow death from diseases.

———————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-11/russians-stole-radioactive-substance-chernobyl/100981372

I wonder if they intend to make some dirty bombs?


Or it was simply looting.

Reply Quote

Date: 11/04/2022 11:29:43
From: Cymek
ID: 1871468
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

JudgeMental said:


Michael V said:

Russian forces who occupied the Chernobyl nuclear plant stole radioactive substances from research laboratories that could potentially kill them, Ukraine’s State Agency for Managing the Exclusion Zone said on Sunday.

It said the Russians entered a storage area of the Ecocentre research base and stole 133 highly radioactive substances.

“Even a small part of this activity is deadly if handled unprofessionally,” the agency said.

“They dug bare soil contaminated with radiation, collected radioactive sand in bags for fortification, breathed this dust,” Mr Gulashchenko said on Facebook on Friday after visiting the exclusion zone.

“After a month of such exposure, they have a maximum of one year of life. More precisely, not life but a slow death from diseases.

———————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-11/russians-stole-radioactive-substance-chernobyl/100981372

I wonder if they intend to make some dirty bombs?

Nasty thought, or even just randomly contaminate land

Reply Quote

Date: 11/04/2022 11:32:50
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1871469
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Tamb said:

JudgeMental said:

Michael V said:

Russian forces who occupied the Chernobyl nuclear plant stole radioactive substances from research laboratories that could potentially kill them, Ukraine’s State Agency for Managing the Exclusion Zone said on Sunday.

It said the Russians entered a storage area of the Ecocentre research base and stole 133 highly radioactive substances.

“Even a small part of this activity is deadly if handled unprofessionally,” the agency said.

“They dug bare soil contaminated with radiation, collected radioactive sand in bags for fortification, breathed this dust,” Mr Gulashchenko said on Facebook on Friday after visiting the exclusion zone.

“After a month of such exposure, they have a maximum of one year of life. More precisely, not life but a slow death from diseases.

———————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-11/russians-stole-radioactive-substance-chernobyl/100981372

I wonder if they intend to make some dirty bombs?

Or it was simply looting.

forgotten radiotherapy source was stolen from an abandoned hospital site in the city. It was subsequently handled by many people, resulting in four deaths. About 112,000 people were examined for radioactive contamination and 249 of them were

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goi%C3%A2nia_accident

On September 13, 1987, the guard who was tasked with protecting the site did not show up for work. He took his family to a screening of the movie Herbie Goes Bananas. Taking advantage of the absence of the guard, Roberto dos Santos Alves and Wagner Mota Pereira illegally entered the partially demolished IGR site. They partially disassembled the teletherapy unit and placed the source assembly – which they thought might have some scrap value – in a wheelbarrow, taking it to Alves’s home. There, they began dismantling the equipment. That same evening, they both began to vomit due to radiation sickness. Nevertheless, they continued in their efforts. The following day, Pereira began to experience diarrhea and dizziness, and his left hand began to swell. He soon developed a burn on his hand in the same size and shape as the aperture – he eventually underwent partial amputation of several fingers. On September 15, Pereira visited a local clinic, where his symptoms were diagnosed as the result of something he had eaten; he was told to return home and rest. Alves, however, continued with his efforts to dismantle the equipment and eventually freed the caesium capsule from its protective rotating head. His prolonged exposure to the radioactive material led to his right forearm becoming ulcerated, requiring amputation on October 14.

On September 16, Alves succeeded in puncturing the capsule’s aperture window with a screwdriver, allowing him to see a deep blue light coming from the tiny opening he had created. He inserted the screwdriver and successfully scooped out some of the glowing substance. Thinking it was perhaps a type of gunpowder, he tried to light it, but the powder would not ignite. The exact mechanism by which the light was generated was not known at the time the IAEA report was written, though it was thought to be either ionized air glow, fluorescence, or Cherenkov radiation associated with the absorption of moisture by the source; similar blue light was observed in 1988 at Oak Ridge National Laboratory in the United States during the disencapsulation of a 137Cs source.

On September 18, Alves sold the items to a nearby scrapyard. That night, Devair Alves Ferreira, the owner of the scrapyard, noticed the blue glow from the punctured capsule. Thinking the capsule’s contents were valuable or even supernatural, he immediately brought it into his house. Over the next three days, he invited friends and family to view the strange glowing substance. On September 21, at the scrapyard, one of Ferreira’s friends (identified as “EF1” in the IAEA report) succeeded in freeing several rice-sized grains of the glowing material from the capsule using a screwdriver. Ferreira began to share some of them with various friends and family members. That same day, his wife, 37-year-old Gabriela Maria Ferreira, began to fall ill. On September 25, 1987, Devair Ferreira sold the scrap metal to a third scrapyard.

The day before the sale to the third scrapyard, on September 24, Ivo, Devair’s brother, successfully scraped some additional dust out of the source and took it to his house a short distance away. There he spread some of it on the concrete floor. His six-year-old daughter, Leide das Neves Ferreira, later ate an egg while sitting on this floor. She was also fascinated by the blue glow of the powder, applying it to her body and showing it off to her mother. Dust from the powder fell on the egg she was consuming; she eventually absorbed 1.0 GBq and received a total dose of 6.0 Gy, more than a fatal dose even with treatment. She died on October 23, 1987, of “septicemia and generalized infection” at the Marcilio Dias Navy Hospital, in Rio de Janeiro. She was buried in a common cemetery in Goiânia, in a special fiberglass coffin lined with lead to prevent the spread of radiation. Despite these measures, news of her impending burial caused a riot of more than 2,000 people in the cemetery on the day of her burial, all fearing that her corpse would poison the surrounding land. Rioters tried to prevent her burial by using stones and bricks to block the cemetery roadway. She was buried despite this interference.

Gabriela Maria Ferreira had been the first to notice that many people around her had become severely ill at the same time. On September 28, 1987 – fifteen days after the item was found – she reclaimed the materials from the rival scrapyard and transported them to a hospital. Because the remains of the source were kept in a plastic bag, the level of contamination at the hospital was low.

In the morning of September 29, a visiting medical physicist used a scintillation counter to confirm the presence of radioactivity and persuaded the authorities to take immediate action. The city, state, and national governments were all aware of the incident by the end of the day.

but get this

Afterwards, about 112,000 people were examined for radioactive contamination; 249 were found to have significant levels of radioactive material in or on their body. Of this group, 129 people had internal contamination. The majority of the internally contaminated people only suffered small doses (< 50 mSv, less than a 1 in 400 risk of getting cancer as a result). A thousand people were identified as having suffered a dose which was greater than one year of background radiation; it is thought that 97% of these people had a dose of between 10 and 200 mSv (between 1 in 2,000 and 1 in 100 risk of developing cancer as a result).

fuck what’s a low risk of a mild disease anyway, if that shit had happened in 2022 then we’d be all for throwing Cs dust in the air for a blue glow party

Reply Quote

Date: 11/04/2022 20:05:09
From: dv
ID: 1871657
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

https://youtu.be/h4WEBwsuQf0

Ukrainian National Guardsman explains the Russian World ideology

Reply Quote

Date: 11/04/2022 20:19:31
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1871661
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


https://youtu.be/h4WEBwsuQf0

Ukrainian National Guardsman explains the Russian World ideology

True enough.

“Russian superiority” is born of the same well-deserved inferiority complex that inspired the “superior race” cults of 1930s Germany and Italy etc.

Backward countries with backward political systems and failing economies deciding that they they “deserve an empire” ‘cos they’re so superior to all those more successful nations.

Reply Quote

Date: 11/04/2022 20:23:23
From: party_pants
ID: 1871667
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


dv said:

https://youtu.be/h4WEBwsuQf0

Ukrainian National Guardsman explains the Russian World ideology

True enough.

“Russian superiority” is born of the same well-deserved inferiority complex that inspired the “superior race” cults of 1930s Germany and Italy etc.

Backward countries with backward political systems and failing economies deciding that they they “deserve an empire” ‘cos they’re so superior to all those more successful nations.

Empires are inherently bad. They are justified by this type of thinking.

Reply Quote

Date: 11/04/2022 20:24:48
From: JudgeMental
ID: 1871669
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

party_pants said:


Bubblecar said:

dv said:

https://youtu.be/h4WEBwsuQf0

Ukrainian National Guardsman explains the Russian World ideology

True enough.

“Russian superiority” is born of the same well-deserved inferiority complex that inspired the “superior race” cults of 1930s Germany and Italy etc.

Backward countries with backward political systems and failing economies deciding that they they “deserve an empire” ‘cos they’re so superior to all those more successful nations.

Empires are inherently bad. They are justified by this type of thinking.

the british empire made them a lot of money at first.

Reply Quote

Date: 11/04/2022 20:32:58
From: party_pants
ID: 1871673
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

JudgeMental said:


party_pants said:

Bubblecar said:

True enough.

“Russian superiority” is born of the same well-deserved inferiority complex that inspired the “superior race” cults of 1930s Germany and Italy etc.

Backward countries with backward political systems and failing economies deciding that they they “deserve an empire” ‘cos they’re so superior to all those more successful nations.

Empires are inherently bad. They are justified by this type of thinking.

the british empire made them a lot of money at first.

the Russians or the Ukrainians?

Reply Quote

Date: 11/04/2022 20:42:17
From: JudgeMental
ID: 1871676
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

party_pants said:


JudgeMental said:

party_pants said:

Empires are inherently bad. They are justified by this type of thinking.

the british empire made them a lot of money at first.

the Russians or the Ukrainians?

the british.

Reply Quote

Date: 11/04/2022 20:48:04
From: party_pants
ID: 1871679
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

JudgeMental said:


party_pants said:

JudgeMental said:

the british empire made them a lot of money at first.

the Russians or the Ukrainians?

the british.

More than just “at first” It was the whole reason behind having an empire. Some estimates put the amount of money transferred from greater India to Britain over the ~200 year empire period at around 40 trillion in modern USD equivalent terms.

Reply Quote

Date: 11/04/2022 20:49:32
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1871680
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

JudgeMental said:


party_pants said:

JudgeMental said:

the british empire made them a lot of money at first.

the Russians or the Ukrainians?

the british.

By the 1930s the British Empire was in decline and imperialistic thinking was attracting much more criticism in the West.

The Axis powers’ stab at creating empires, and that of the Soviet Union, were late entrants by primitive nationalist dictatorships who were resentful at having “missed out” on these supposed glories.

Reply Quote

Date: 11/04/2022 20:50:32
From: JudgeMental
ID: 1871682
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

party_pants said:


JudgeMental said:

party_pants said:

the Russians or the Ukrainians?

the british.

More than just “at first” It was the whole reason behind having an empire. Some estimates put the amount of money transferred from greater India to Britain over the ~200 year empire period at around 40 trillion in modern USD equivalent terms.

sure, but i don’t believe they made a decision to have and empire at the very beginning. they took over places and it kinda snowballed from there.

Reply Quote

Date: 11/04/2022 20:53:21
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1871685
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

JudgeMental said:


party_pants said:

JudgeMental said:

the british.

More than just “at first” It was the whole reason behind having an empire. Some estimates put the amount of money transferred from greater India to Britain over the ~200 year empire period at around 40 trillion in modern USD equivalent terms.

sure, but i don’t believe they made a decision to have and empire at the very beginning. they took over places and it kinda snowballed from there.

First Poland…

Reply Quote

Date: 11/04/2022 20:55:29
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1871687
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:

JudgeMental said:

party_pants said:

More than just “at first” It was the whole reason behind having an empire. Some estimates put the amount of money transferred from greater India to Britain over the ~200 year empire period at around 40 trillion in modern USD equivalent terms.

sure, but i don’t believe they made a decision to have and empire at the very beginning. they took over places and it kinda snowballed from there.

First Poland…

well you know The Economy Must Grow and real estate is required

Reply Quote

Date: 11/04/2022 20:56:15
From: party_pants
ID: 1871688
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

JudgeMental said:


party_pants said:

JudgeMental said:

the british.

More than just “at first” It was the whole reason behind having an empire. Some estimates put the amount of money transferred from greater India to Britain over the ~200 year empire period at around 40 trillion in modern USD equivalent terms.

sure, but i don’t believe they made a decision to have and empire at the very beginning. they took over places and it kinda snowballed from there.

Eventually it got taken over exceptionalism. Some sort of racial, religious, cultural or other sense of superiority over the subject peoples. The same sort of thing that Russia exhibits over the peoples to their west and south. It still has not completely died away in Britain either. Nor in France.

Reply Quote

Date: 11/04/2022 22:11:09
From: dv
ID: 1871718
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

https://youtu.be/JPJ6Lqrxh_s
Moldovan Prime Minister discusses the challenges her country faces

Reply Quote

Date: 12/04/2022 00:00:49
From: dv
ID: 1871751
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

London (CNN Business)Russia has defaulted on its foreign debt because it offered bondholders payments in rubles, not dollars, credit ratings agency S&P has said.

Russia attempted to pay in rubles for two dollar-denominated bonds that matured on April 4, S&P said in a note on Friday. The agency said this amounted to a “selective default” because investors are unlikely to be able to convert the rubles into “dollars equivalent to the originally due amounts.”

According to S&P, a selective default is declared when an entity has defaulted on a specific obligation but not its entire debt.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/04/11/investing/russia-default-sp/index.html

Reply Quote

Date: 12/04/2022 01:22:15
From: dv
ID: 1871774
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

serious dispute has emerged between the European Union and the Hungarian government after Prime Minister Viktor Orbán said that Hungary would have no problem paying for Russian gas in rubles. The European Commission says the Hungarian government would be in breach of EU sanctions if it decided to do so. In contrast, the Orbán government claims that according to Hungary’s bilateral agreements with Russia, the currency for payments was “merely a technical detail.” Therefore, it is possible to pay for the Russian gas without violating the EU sanctions.

If Hungary makes good on its promise to pay for Russian energy in rubles, it will be breaking EU sanctions, European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen told CNN in an interview on Friday.

https://hungarytoday.hu/dispute-between-eu-and-hungary-over-payment-to-russia-in-rubles/

Reply Quote

Date: 12/04/2022 01:26:57
From: sibeen
ID: 1871777
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:

 serious dispute has emerged between the European Union and the Hungarian government after Prime Minister Viktor Orbán said that Hungary would have no problem paying for Russian gas in rubles. The European Commission says the Hungarian government would be in breach of EU sanctions if it decided to do so. In contrast, the Orbán government claims that according to Hungary’s bilateral agreements with Russia, the currency for payments was “merely a technical detail.” Therefore, it is possible to pay for the Russian gas without violating the EU sanctions.

If Hungary makes good on its promise to pay for Russian energy in rubles, it will be breaking EU sanctions, European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen told CNN in an interview on Friday.

https://hungarytoday.hu/dispute-between-eu-and-hungary-over-payment-to-russia-in-rubles/

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-04-11/hungary-to-continue-paying-euros-for-russian-gas-minister-says?utm_source=google&utm_medium=bd&cmpId=google

Reply Quote

Date: 12/04/2022 01:29:08
From: sibeen
ID: 1871778
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

sibeen said:


dv said:
 serious dispute has emerged between the European Union and the Hungarian government after Prime Minister Viktor Orbán said that Hungary would have no problem paying for Russian gas in rubles. The European Commission says the Hungarian government would be in breach of EU sanctions if it decided to do so. In contrast, the Orbán government claims that according to Hungary’s bilateral agreements with Russia, the currency for payments was “merely a technical detail.” Therefore, it is possible to pay for the Russian gas without violating the EU sanctions.

If Hungary makes good on its promise to pay for Russian energy in rubles, it will be breaking EU sanctions, European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen told CNN in an interview on Friday.

https://hungarytoday.hu/dispute-between-eu-and-hungary-over-payment-to-russia-in-rubles/

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-04-11/hungary-to-continue-paying-euros-for-russian-gas-minister-says?utm_source=google&utm_medium=bd&cmpId=google

When Germany is buying 200 million euros a day of Russian gas I do find quibbles and foibles of EU sanctions to be a tad laughable.

Reply Quote

Date: 12/04/2022 02:56:49
From: dv
ID: 1871787
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Reply Quote

Date: 12/04/2022 06:28:10
From: roughbarked
ID: 1871790
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

sibeen said:


sibeen said:

dv said:
 serious dispute has emerged between the European Union and the Hungarian government after Prime Minister Viktor Orbán said that Hungary would have no problem paying for Russian gas in rubles. The European Commission says the Hungarian government would be in breach of EU sanctions if it decided to do so. In contrast, the Orbán government claims that according to Hungary’s bilateral agreements with Russia, the currency for payments was “merely a technical detail.” Therefore, it is possible to pay for the Russian gas without violating the EU sanctions.

If Hungary makes good on its promise to pay for Russian energy in rubles, it will be breaking EU sanctions, European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen told CNN in an interview on Friday.

https://hungarytoday.hu/dispute-between-eu-and-hungary-over-payment-to-russia-in-rubles/

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-04-11/hungary-to-continue-paying-euros-for-russian-gas-minister-says?utm_source=google&utm_medium=bd&cmpId=google

When Germany is buying 200 million euros a day of Russian gas I do find quibbles and foibles of EU sanctions to be a tad laughable.

Norway pipeline back on track. https://notesfrompoland.com/2021/08/31/gas-pipeline-from-norway-to-poland-on-track-for-2022-opening/

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/norways-equinor-raise-gas-output-major-fields-2022-03-16/

Reply Quote

Date: 12/04/2022 08:33:17
From: Michael V
ID: 1871810
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:



Well done.

Reply Quote

Date: 12/04/2022 09:42:52
From: Michael V
ID: 1871825
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Banned landmines found in residential area of Kharkiv.
Hundreds of small explosive devices have been found scattered over a residential area in the north-eastern town.

Reuters is reporting that residents heard whooshing sounds in the early hours of the morning and later found hundreds of the devices in small plastic casings scattered in their yards and on nearby roads.

Head of the Demining Unit of Kharkiv State Emergency Services Lieutenant Colonel Nikolay Ovarchuk identified the devices as PTM-1 landmines which are small, timer-operated devices carrying up to 1.5kg of liquid explosive.

Landmines were banned as antipersonnel mines by the 1998 Ottawa Treaty to reduce civilian casualties.

——————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————-
Bloody!
——————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————-
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-12/ukraine-russia-war-live-updates-zelenskyy-putin-conflict/100983396

Reply Quote

Date: 12/04/2022 09:44:09
From: roughbarked
ID: 1871827
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:



agree with MV. Well done.

Reply Quote

Date: 12/04/2022 10:08:10
From: Cymek
ID: 1871832
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Michael V said:


Banned landmines found in residential area of Kharkiv.
Hundreds of small explosive devices have been found scattered over a residential area in the north-eastern town.

Reuters is reporting that residents heard whooshing sounds in the early hours of the morning and later found hundreds of the devices in small plastic casings scattered in their yards and on nearby roads.

Head of the Demining Unit of Kharkiv State Emergency Services Lieutenant Colonel Nikolay Ovarchuk identified the devices as PTM-1 landmines which are small, timer-operated devices carrying up to 1.5kg of liquid explosive.

Landmines were banned as antipersonnel mines by the 1998 Ottawa Treaty to reduce civilian casualties.

——————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————-
Bloody!
——————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————-
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-12/ukraine-russia-war-live-updates-zelenskyy-putin-conflict/100983396

They may as well hand them out to kiddies for Easter

Reply Quote

Date: 12/04/2022 21:26:25
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1872143
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

oh look

The 36th marine brigade earlier posted on Facebook warning that after 47 days of defending the city, the unit had been surrounded by the Russian army, and was facing “hand-to-hand combat”. The post – which Mr Orlov labelled a fake – promised Ukrainians its soldiers “did everything possible and impossible” to stop the Russian advance. “Today will probably be the last battle, as the ammunition is running out… it’s death for some of us and captivity for the rest,” it said. It also complained about a lack of support from other parts of the Ukrainian military, with aid promised which never came. The post said the marines have been pushed back to the Azovmash factory in the city. It is believed there is also fighting inside the Azovstal industrial zone, which is on the coast. Some experts expressed scepticism about the post, suggesting that the Facebook page could have been hacked by Russian operatives. But others are sure that it is authentic.

ah well fuck thst we’re just going to sit here in privilege and laugh at how we can shit on an opposition leader who hasn’t memorised minutiae

Reply Quote

Date: 12/04/2022 21:35:37
From: dv
ID: 1872149
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:


oh look

The 36th marine brigade earlier posted on Facebook warning that after 47 days of defending the city, the unit had been surrounded by the Russian army, and was facing “hand-to-hand combat”. The post – which Mr Orlov labelled a fake – promised Ukrainians its soldiers “did everything possible and impossible” to stop the Russian advance. “Today will probably be the last battle, as the ammunition is running out… it’s death for some of us and captivity for the rest,” it said. It also complained about a lack of support from other parts of the Ukrainian military, with aid promised which never came. The post said the marines have been pushed back to the Azovmash factory in the city. It is believed there is also fighting inside the Azovstal industrial zone, which is on the coast. Some experts expressed scepticism about the post, suggesting that the Facebook page could have been hacked by Russian operatives. But others are sure that it is authentic.

ah well fuck thst we’re just going to sit here in privilege and laugh at how we can shit on an opposition leader who hasn’t memorised minutiae

Honestly I was wondering how Mariupol had held out so long

Reply Quote

Date: 12/04/2022 23:12:22
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1872166
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

So… The disappearance of one hundred T-72 tanks from a storage facility in the Polish city of Lublin a few days ago apparently is in no way related to the increased number of Ukrainian T-72 tanks on their Eastern border region.

Reply Quote

Date: 12/04/2022 23:16:15
From: sibeen
ID: 1872167
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:

So… The disappearance of one hundred T-72 tanks from a storage facility in the Polish city of Lublin a few days ago apparently is in no way related to the increased number of Ukrainian T-72 tanks on their Eastern border region.

Complete fucking mystery.

Reply Quote

Date: 12/04/2022 23:18:01
From: dv
ID: 1872168
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:

So… The disappearance of one hundred T-72 tanks from a storage facility in the Polish city of Lublin a few days ago apparently is in no way related to the increased number of Ukrainian T-72 tanks on their Eastern border region.

Oh my god … we’ve been robbed!

Reply Quote

Date: 13/04/2022 00:03:20
From: dv
ID: 1872170
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/10/russian-teenager-nikita-uvarov-jailed-over-minecraft-plot-to-blow-up-virtual-spy-hq

A Russian teenager has been sentenced to five years in prison for allegedly planning to blow up a virtual FSB security service building in the video game Minecraft.

The ruling falls into a broader pattern under President Vladimir Putin in which young Russians are put behind bars on controversial and preemptive terrorism charges.

Reply Quote

Date: 13/04/2022 00:14:25
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1872177
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/10/russian-teenager-nikita-uvarov-jailed-over-minecraft-plot-to-blow-up-virtual-spy-hq

A Russian teenager has been sentenced to five years in prison for allegedly planning to blow up a virtual FSB security service building in the video game Minecraft.

The ruling falls into a broader pattern under President Vladimir Putin in which young Russians are put behind bars on controversial and preemptive terrorism charges.

They like feeble-minded nutcase leaders, so much stronger than the decadent West.

Reply Quote

Date: 13/04/2022 06:32:09
From: Michael V
ID: 1872213
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

sibeen said:


Dark Orange said:

So… The disappearance of one hundred T-72 tanks from a storage facility in the Polish city of Lublin a few days ago apparently is in no way related to the increased number of Ukrainian T-72 tanks on their Eastern border region.

Complete fucking mystery.

And so it should remain.

Reply Quote

Date: 13/04/2022 06:33:22
From: Michael V
ID: 1872214
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/10/russian-teenager-nikita-uvarov-jailed-over-minecraft-plot-to-blow-up-virtual-spy-hq

A Russian teenager has been sentenced to five years in prison for allegedly planning to blow up a virtual FSB security service building in the video game Minecraft.

The ruling falls into a broader pattern under President Vladimir Putin in which young Russians are put behind bars on controversial and preemptive terrorism charges.

Hey-Zeus!

Reply Quote

Date: 13/04/2022 11:38:34
From: JudgeMental
ID: 1872274
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/world/europe-news/2022/04/12/russia-ukraine-chemicals/

Link

Reply Quote

Date: 13/04/2022 18:32:43
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1872434
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Could the Siloviki Challenge Putin?
What It Would Take for a Coup by Kremlin Insiders
By Andrei Soldatov and Irina Borogan
April 11, 2022

Among the many questions surrounding Russia’s disastrous war in Ukraine, one of the most notable concerns the growing tensions between Russian President Vladimir Putin and his own security services and military. The war started with Putin holding a televised security council meeting in which he humiliated Sergei Naryshkin, the chief of the foreign intelligence service, for insufficient enthusiasm about the invasion. Two weeks later, with Russian forces facing high casualties and unexpected resistance, Putin placed two generals of Russia’s Federal Security Service (FSB) under house arrest and began an investigation into bad intelligence and the misuse of funds designated for cultivating pro-Kremlin groups in Ukraine. He also forced a deputy commander of the National Guard to resign, apparently because of a criminal investigation. In early April, one of the FSB generals who had been placed under house arrest was transferred to Lefortovo prison.

Then it was the military’s turn. For nearly two weeks in March, amid rumors that Putin was furious with the progress of the invasion, Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu, the public face of the war and generally regarded as one of Putin’s most trusted lieutenants, disappeared from view. When Shoigu finally resurfaced, first in a video clip of a security council meeting and then in person at a conference in the Ministry of Defense, he appeared somber and withdrawn. At the end of March, U.S. intelligence forces suggested that the Russian Defense Ministry has not been giving Putin a clear picture about the war, perhaps out of fear of further repercussions. And on April 9, Putin reorganized the military chain of command, appointing General Alexandr V. Dvornikov to be in charge of the operations in Ukraine.

At first glance, these developments suggest a striking change. In the years before the war, the siloviki, as Russia’s security elite are known, had been one of the main power centers of Putin’s regime. As a former KGB officer himself, Putin has long relied on the security services to enforce his policies and help him maintain his grip on power. And although the siloviki have been somewhat eclipsed by Shoigu’s Defense Ministry in recent years, never before has Putin appeared to be so at odds with both the security services and the military as he is now. Given Putin’s increasingly ruthless crackdown on these men and the growing awareness in Moscow that the war has gone badly, some observers are wondering how long they will tolerate his catastrophic mistakes.

Such questions, however, overlook the historical relationship between the security forces and the Russian state—and the particular way that Putin has built his base of power. Although the recent developments are noteworthy, they do not suggest a larger breakdown of the existing order. Even amid the current tensions, the chances that leading members of the security or military elite might make a move against Putin remain slim. It is worth considering, then, why this is so, and what might have to happen for that to change.

MILITARIZED, NOT MOBILIZED
To understand why the siloviki may be unlikely to turn against Putin, it is necessary to first understand the historic relationship between the military and the state. Historically, the Russian army has never posed much of a threat to the country’s rulers. Unlike in other heavily militarized societies, there have been very few successful or attempted military coups in Russia. The last time the Russian army launched an open rebellion was in 1825, when the Decembrists tried to dethrone Tsar Nicolas I; the revolt failed disastrously, with most of the coup leaders killed or exiled. Nor has the Russian military given rise to alternative centers of power—in the mold of Egypt’s Free Officers, for example, who toppled King Farouk in 1952. This is not for lack of trying: on several occasions since the collapse of the Soviet Union, groups of military veterans have sought to gain political power, but each time they have failed.

During the 1990s, before Putin came to power, the Russian government was weak, and the Kremlin was forced to balance between competing groups. Sometimes, this led to efforts by members of the military to gain influence or even overthrow the government. In October 1993, a group of former Soviet veterans calling themselves the Union of Officers took part in an ultraconservative revolt, but they were arrested before the rebellion got underway. Four years later, a Russian combat general named Lev Rokhlin left the army and formed his own political party called the Movement in Support of the Army, which aimed at taking over the Kremlin. It quickly gained popularity, but then in 1998, Rokhlin’s wife shot him during a family feud at their dacha. The killing gave rise to numerous conspiracy theories, but one thing became clear: Rokhlin’s movement didn’t survive his death.

There have been very few successful coups in Russian history.
In those years, the security services and sometimes the generals and officers in the military would occasionally throw their weight behind powerful regional leaders, including the mayor of Moscow, as a counterweight to the president. But Putin has systematically eliminated that kind of threat. Russia no longer has any significant opposition forces. Putin’s political opponents have either been killed off (like Boris Nemtsov, who was assassinated near the Kremlin in 2015), thrown in jail (like Alexei Navalny, who has been locked up since January 2021 and was recently given a new sentence of nine years in a maximum security penal colony), or forced into exile (like nearly all of Navalny’s lieutenants and a growing number of former insiders, such as Vladimir Milov, the former deputy minister of energy, Sergei Aleksashenko, the former deputy finance minister, and even Andrei Kozyrev, the former foreign minister of Russia).

On the few occasions that members of the military have challenged Putin, they have been easily stopped in their tracks. In 2005, for example, Vladimir Kvachkov, a retired colonel in military intelligence, tried to assassinate Anatoly Chubais, the economist who was known as the father of Russia’s controversial privatization program of the 1990s. In the early 2000s, Chubais remained close to Putin and still enjoyed his support. Kvachkov’s group detonated a roadside bomb and sprayed Chubais’s car with automatic gunfire, but the assassination attempt failed, and Kvachkov was sent to prison. When Kvachkov was released, he mounted a political comeback that went nowhere, and he was later rearrested by the FSB. His popularity was limited to aging Red Army retirees who believed that the Soviet Union had been destroyed as a result of a Jewish conspiracy. Everyone else viewed him as a tainted has-been. As a Spetsnaz officer who heard one of Kvachkov’s speeches told us at the time, “Why should we listen to him about politics if he failed to execute an ambush operation of the kind he supposedly brought to perfection in Afghanistan?”

WATCHED FROM BEHIND
In fact, quite apart from Putin’s systematic elimination of opposition forces, there is a deeper structural reason for the military’s inability to launch an effective challenge to the Kremlin. During the Soviet years, the secret police kept the army under its watchful eye. As early as 1918, less than a year after the Bolshevik Revolution, the Cheka, the precursor of the KGB, formed a unit to deal with dissent within the Red Army. This vigilance was continued under Stalin and his successors, all of whom kept a firm grip on the army: every military division had Communist Party cells planted in it, and the KGB established a large military counterintelligence force to spy on the army. And when the Soviet Union collapsed, the KGB was largely reconstituted as the FSB, with the new service occupying the same headquarters at Lubyanka and following many of the same practices.

Since coming to power, Putin has aggressively expanded these powers, giving the FSB wide latitude to monitor dissent within the military. As early as the beginning of 2000, when he was still acting president, Putin approved a new series of regulations that expanded the FSB’s involvement in military counterintelligence. The FSB was empowered to investigate, as the law put it, any “illegal armed formations, criminal groups, and individuals and public associations” that may be seeking a “violent change of the political system of the Russian Federation and the violent seizure or violent retention of power.” In 2004, the FSB’s military counterintelligence unit was elevated to the rank of a full department of the security services. Soon it became the largest division of the FSB, with numerous agents deployed in the Russian army

As a result of this mandate, FSB agents are pervasive in Russia’s military today. There are rules governing how many FSB agents must be assigned to each military unit and each military facility. According to FSB policy, for example, a small National Guard air base in Ermolino, in the region of Kaluga—a base that houses only six planes and perhaps a dozen helicopters—must be supervised by the local FSB chief, along with more than 20 recruited assets and 16 confidential contacts within the base’s personnel.

The FSB has a pervasive culture of mistrust.
In the war in Ukraine, the official role of the FSB is to make sure that Russian troops are not sabotaged or attacked from behind. FSB agents are also in charge of establishing political control over occupied territories, including cities and areas that have fallen into Russian control. But they also keep a watchful eye on the troops themselves.

With such incessant surveillance, the Russian army has never produced the kind of officers who might lead an effective revolt. But what about the FSB men themselves? As Putin’s own regime has shown, in contrast to the military, the KGB has produced one of the country’s most powerful leaders since Stalin. Arguably, then, the biggest threat to Putin might well come from the agency whose powers he has steadily bolstered over the years: the officers at Lubyanka.

PUTIN’S WILLING ENFORCERS
If anyone is expecting members of the security services to rise up against Putin, however, they would do well to consider the negligible record of effective FSB dissent. The Russian security services have always been prone to corruption, but they have not been particularly adept at building effective power bases and patronage networks of their own. Because of the way the FSB is structured, individual officers tend to be loyal to their rank and position, rather than to particular senior officers within the services; if an FSB general loses his job, he cannot rely on the continued loyalty of his former subordinates.

Members of the FSB are also acutely aware that they may be subject to Putin’s crackdowns as much as anyone else. At present, there are dozens of FSB officers who have been jailed on charges of corruption and treason (often involving alleged spying for the United States). Although the charges are sometimes real, there often appear to be other motives determining who is targeted. In most cases, those who have been charged were arrested by the FSB’s own internal security department. As a result of these practices, there has long been a pervasive culture of mistrust within the FSB: midlevel officers don’t trust the generals, and the generals don’t trust their subordinates. Older members still recall that the 1991 putsch led by Vladimir Kryuchkov, the head of the KGB, failed because the rank and file chose to stand by and wait rather than participate in his plot.

The present generation of FSB officers, men in their 30s and 40s, have no memory of any president other than Putin and have built their careers under one director, Aleksandr Bortnikov, who has led the agency since 2007. They present a striking contrast to the previous generation, active in the 1990s, when the FSB rank and file was forced to continually navigate between different political groups jockeying for power. These days, the FSB officers serve only the president by obeying orders. Their main function is to ruthlessly eliminate any potential sources of opposition or dissent, pure and simple, no questions asked. And the elevated status they enjoy in Russian society has tended to make them even more loyal to the regime.

THE LIMITS OF LOYALTY
Although Putin has long counted on the steadfast support of his military and security services, the war in Ukraine suggests that there may be limits to how far this can go. The increasingly visible tensions between him and senior members of his security elite suggest that Putin may be more paranoid than ever about possible challenges to his rule. On the other hand, such discord may also indicate that at least some members of his inner circle are displeased with the course he has set. And since Putin’s chosen way of dealing with problems—including the bad intelligence and bad military performance in Ukraine—is to blame the siloviki, they don’t feel particularly encouraged to give him an accurate picture about what is happening. They also don’t want to stick their necks out.

Lacking political experience and a broad base of support, the siloviki—both the security services and the military—are hardly capable of producing and leading a coup d’état on their own. Nor are they likely to be swayed if popular sentiment in Russia turns dramatically against Putin. But the siloviki are ruthless in protecting their own interests, and there is one way, at least, that they might lose faith: if Russia’s economic troubles reach the point that its regional governors begin to break ranks with Putin and the economic order that has sustained Putin’s security state for more than 20 years begins to collapse, then the siloviki may well conclude that the Kremlin is losing control of the country and that their own future is threatened. In that case, they could step aside and let it happen—or even provide a hand.

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/russian-federation/2022-04-11/could-siloviki-challenge-putin?

Reply Quote

Date: 13/04/2022 22:18:47
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1872493
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

The American lawyer who charged Liberia’s Charles Taylor for war crimes has said Vladimir Putin is legally and politically “done”, and has drawn up a draft indictment that could be used to prosecute the Russian president.

David Crane, who charged Taylor with war crimes and crimes against humanity for his role in the deaths of up to 70,000 people in West Africa, has detailed similar charges against the Russian leader.

In addition, Crane has included the crime of aggression, the offence with which the leaders of Nazi Germany were charged and found guilty of, during the Nuremberg Trials.

“Vladimir Putin is done, practically, politically and legally. It’s just a matter of time,” Crane, the former chief prosecutor of the Special Court for Sierra Leone, told The Independent.

“He’s going to be indicted. And he will be an indicted war criminal, which gives him legally and politically and diplomatically, no standing any more. He has no ability to move about the world. He just has no respectability any more, like we did with Taylor, we stripped him of all his power.”

He added: “In my considered opinion, he is done politically, practically and legally. And I don’t think he fully appreciates it. But I have never seen the world come together, to see something done like this.”

In the weeks since Putin invaded Ukraine, Crane, a scholar in residence at Syracuse University College of Law, has been overseeing the efforts of a so-called Ukraine Task Force, a collaboration of law students and legal scholars, who have been working with open source information specialists to document alleged war crimes.

The group, which is more than 400 strong, and involves 12 universities and human rights groups, did similar research into alleged war crimes in Syria. Russia has denied committing war crimes, and asserted, without providing evidence, that the atrocities seen in towns such as Bucha, north of Kyiv, have been staged by Ukrainians to make Moscow look bad.

Recently, Crane and his team completed a 276-page report detailing numerous potential war crimes committed since Russia invaded Ukraine six weeks ago, along with the legal framework of accountability to charge the individuals who bear the responsibility for the crimes, with the specific violations of international law.

It includes a draft indictment against Putin, 69, and also lays out the case against four other senior Russian officials – Valery Vasilyevich Gerasimov, chief of the general staff; Nikolay Vasilyevich Bogdanovsky, a member of the general staff; Igor Olegovich Kostyukov, the director of Russian Military Intelligence; and Oleg Leonidovich Salyukov, commander-in-chief of the Russian Ground Forces.

The report says the names are “not an exhaustive list, but merely an introduction to those responsible at the highest levels”.

The report says since the invasion, Ukrainian citizens have been forced to endure kidnappings, property destruction, starvation, terror, shellings, and murder at the hands of the Russian Federation.

“As is consistent with the complex and intricate history of Ukraine, Russia once again seeks to assert its dominance and control of the territory in wanton violation of international law and Ukrainian sovereignty,” it says.

“There is no clearer violation of the laws of humanity. At its most basic elements, international law and the laws of humanity establish self-determination and self-expression of a people as fundamental rights free from infringement by foreign powers.”

Ukraine president Volodymyr Zelensky has for several weeks described what is happening to his country as war crimes, and has called for a Nuremberg-style tribunal to prosecute those responsible.

“Today, as a result of Russia’s actions in our country, in Ukraine, the most terrible war crimes we’ve seen since the end of World War Two are being committed,” he said in a virtual address to the United Nations Security Council earlier this month.

“Russian troops are deliberately destroying Ukrainian cities to ashes with artillery and air strikes. They are deliberately blocking cities, creating mass starvation. They deliberately shoot columns of civilians on the road trying to escape from the hostilities.”

At the end of February, Karim Khan, a prosecutor at the International Criminal Court in The Hague, said he had opened an initial investigation into potential war crimes.

Meanwhile, the UN Human Rights Council, based in Geneva, has established a commission of inquiry.

President Biden has called Putin a war criminal and said he should he held accountable. However the US is not a member of the International Criminal Court, after US politicians repeatedly rejected joining as they feared American citizens could be tried.

Reports suggest the Biden administration is currently trying to juggle support for Ukraine, while not becoming too supportive of any prosecution at the ICC.

Charles Taylor, now aged 74, was found guilty of 11 charges at the UN-backed special court for Sierra Leone in the Hague in 2012. He was sentenced to 50 years in jail and is currently serving that sentence at HM Prison Frankland in County Durham, England.

In addition to the thousands killed, countless others were raped or tortured, and millions of people driven from their homes. The war dragged on for more than a decade, from 1991 to 2002.

Taylor, whose actions resulted in the deaths of many thousands in a conflict that spilled over two nations, was the first former head of state convicted in an international court on war crimes charges since judges in Nuremberg convicted Karl Doenitz, an admiral who led Nazi Germany for a brief period following Adolf Hitler’s suicide.

The former Serb leader Slobodan Milosevic was also charged with war crimes, but died in his cell in 2006 before a verdict was reached. He, like Taylor, denied the charges.

Crane, 71, acknowledges the 2003 invasion of Iraq was illegal and says a case could be made against both George W Bush and Tony Blair for the hundreds of thousands of people killed. Right now, he says his focus is on Russia and Ukraine.

He claims indicting Putin would be easier than indicting the African warlord, Taylor.

Crane says it took him two years to persuade diplomats and politicians that an international chief prosecutor “has the power to take down a sitting head of state, and then convince them that was the smart thing to do, and then convince them to hand him over”.

He added: “Right now, in Ukraine, we have 141 nations of the United Nations – almost 80 per cent – that have done two things: one is pass a resolution condemning the invasion, condemning the human rights violations,” he says.

“We just have the political momentum.”

What does Crane say to those who point out Taylor did not have a vast arsenal of nuclear weapons, unlike Putin?

“I have been declaring that if we use the fact he’s got his thumb on the nuclear button to stop doing this, then we have two scenarios – the end of the world politically as we know it, or the end of world physically, as we know it,” he says.

“We have over a dozen strong men around the world, that are watching like crocodiles what we do to Vladimir Putin. And if we don’t do anything with Vladimir Putin, it is going to be a very dark world.”

He says he believes China would move on Taiwan, North Korea would attack South Korea, and “a whole bunch of other people do some really, really nasty things, because they realise the world doesn’t have the stomach to face down clearly a war criminal”.

He said: “We’re at a very, very scary historic moment, over the next couple of months.

“I’m an old sea dog, I’ve been around a long time. I have never seen the world more dangerous than right now.”

Reply Quote

Date: 13/04/2022 23:40:20
From: dv
ID: 1872512
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Putin ‘purges’ 150 FSB agents in response to Russia’s botched war with Ukraine

A “Stalinist” mass purge of Russian secret intelligence is under way after more than 100 agents were removed from their jobs and the head of the department responsible for Ukraine was sent to prison

https://twitter.com/i/events/1513612319992995853?s=20

Reply Quote

Date: 13/04/2022 23:47:19
From: sibeen
ID: 1872513
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


Putin ‘purges’ 150 FSB agents in response to Russia’s botched war with Ukraine

A “Stalinist” mass purge of Russian secret intelligence is under way after more than 100 agents were removed from their jobs and the head of the department responsible for Ukraine was sent to prison

https://twitter.com/i/events/1513612319992995853?s=20

Ioseb Besarionis dze Jughashvili would be so proud.

Reply Quote

Date: 14/04/2022 00:07:41
From: Kingy
ID: 1872518
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


Putin ‘purges’ 150 FSB agents in response to Russia’s botched war with Ukraine

A “Stalinist” mass purge of Russian secret intelligence is under way after more than 100 agents were removed from their jobs and the head of the department responsible for Ukraine was sent to prison

https://twitter.com/i/events/1513612319992995853?s=20

If only they could figure out who was responsible for this giant fuck up. They could send him to the gulags to enjoy the time there in the re-education camps.

Reply Quote

Date: 14/04/2022 00:15:54
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1872523
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Kingy said:

sibeen said:

dv said:

Putin ‘purges’ 150 FSB agents in response to Russia’s botched war with Ukraine

A “Stalinist” mass purge of Russian secret intelligence is under way after more than 100 agents were removed from their jobs and the head of the department responsible for Ukraine was sent to prison

https://twitter.com/i/events/1513612319992995853?s=20

Ioseb Besarionis dze Jughashvili would be so proud.

If only they could figure out who was responsible for this giant fuck up. They could send him to the gulags to enjoy the time there in the re-education camps.

Reply Quote

Date: 14/04/2022 02:18:55
From: roughbarked
ID: 1872545
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:


Kingy said:

sibeen said:

Ioseb Besarionis dze Jughashvili would be so proud.

If only they could figure out who was responsible for this giant fuck up. They could send him to the gulags to enjoy the time there in the re-education camps.


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-14/soviet-era-drone-that-crashed-in-croatia-carried-aerial-bomb/100990520

Reply Quote

Date: 14/04/2022 09:09:48
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1872566
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Yes, Russians Know What Their Military Is Doing in Ukraine
They are finding out for themselves through unofficial news sources or from other citizens — even if they are too cautious to admit it in a police state.

Russians probably know what’s going on here.

13 April 2022, 15:30 GMT+10

The atrocities that Russian troops have committed in Ukraine raise two questions about Russians at home: Do they know their military is doing these things? And if they do, are they OK with it? The answers are almost certainly “Yes” and “They’re working on it.”

The degree of civilians’ ignorance may not matter much for Russia’s redemption, should that ever become possible. It didn’t matter in post-World War II Germany. Although Germans used to refer to the end of that war as the zero hour, nothing was nullified by Hitler’s suicide and his armies’ capitulation. When “peaceful” Germans told their allied occupiers they hadn’t known what the Nazis were up to, they were sometimes taken en masse to see the death camps. Many were, or acted, astounded and horrified. Whether or not those emotions were real, by expressing them, “innocent” Germans only provoked the allies to rub their noses in Hitler’s terrible heritage.

Yet even if Putin’s Russia is not defeated militarily, let alone occupied and forcibly de-Putinized, the question — did you know? — will be asked of Russians when they apply for visas, interview for foreign jobs or just get into casual conversations with Ukrainians or Westerners. Will they use the same defense that Germans used? Will they claim that the Putin regime had cut off their access to all information except propaganda and force-fed them the idea that the executed unarmed civilians were in fact victims of Ukraine’s false-flag atrocities?

I’m sure some will, and they’ll have some evidence to offer. Ostensibly, the Putin regime has done its best to starve Russians of truthful information. Independent news outlets have been closed outright or blocked on the internet. Those still active cannot be reached without a virtual private network. Search in Russian for Bucha, the Kyiv suburb on which Russian troops unleashed horrible violence, on the Russian search engine Yandex — and you’ll get the twisted Kremlin version of events.

But is this information blockade really effective?

In Russia in March, the four most-downloaded apps for both MacOS and Android were VPNs. One could argue that people are using these applications only to retain access to Netflix and other entertainment services that have quit the country since the war in Ukraine began. But the fifth most in-demand app was the encrypted messenger Telegram, probably the best available source of uncensored news about the war. I, for one, am using Telegram to access news from a wealth of Russian and Ukrainian sources.

According to a poll taken in March, TV is the main source of information for 50% of Russians, and 45% trust it. But then that’s just what people living under an autocratic regime tell pollsters — not necessarily what they actually think. And even if the poll data reflect reality, there is a large age gap in TV viewing: Younger people watch little TV, and more than a quarter of adult Russians don’t watch it at all, instead relying on the internet for news. They are the ones who use VPNs to access independent news sources and subscribe to unfiltered Telegram channels. They also know that Google is a better search engine than Yandex.

Even Putin’s press secretary, Dmitry Peskov, openly admits using a VPN to access the banned Western social networks: The official policy is that such use is not punishable. And indeed there have been no reprisals so far for using Facebook or Instagram, both declared “extremist” organizations. It’s extremely difficult for the secret police to track such use on a grand scale while VPNs remain legal.

And even if one assumes that a TV-only audience of older, technology-shy people really exists, it cannot be isolated from direct communication with other people whose horizons aren’t as limited. Older Russians with their unbreakable TV habit still hear about the executed Ukrainian civilians from their younger friends and relatives.

The social networks are full of stories of well-informed children calling their parents or older friends to tell them what’s going on — and running into a stubborn disbelief. But do people really trust their TV more than their own kids or other people they know personally? I seriously doubt it. I know, however, that older Russians are extremely cautious on the phone (and now also on Skype, WhatsApp, Telegram or any other means of remote communication). They will not endanger themselves by blabbing heresy — too many people suffered for it in the Soviet Union, a country that modern Russia increasingly resembles. Even in the privacy of our apartment, when I was a kid, my mother avoided criticizing the Soviet order in my presence — for fear that I’d blurt it out at school.

The surviving Soviets may not have their children’s technology smarts, but they beat them hands down in the kind of street smarts required for survival in a police state. They also have plenty of experience reading between propaganda lines. The assumption that these people, who laughed privately at the Soviet ideological fodder, have suddenly lost their ability to take state discourse with a bucketful of salt, seems less plausible to me than the idea that they’re reverting to oyster mode as their familiar environment returns.

Alexey Navalny, Putin’s arch-enemy, now held in a penal colony, definitely has no access to any sources but state TV. He recently tweeted, via an intermediary:

I’m telling you, the monstrosity of lies on federal channels is unimaginable. And, unfortunately, so is its persuasiveness for those who have no access to alternative information.

Yet Navalny’s thread lays bare the flimsiness of the ignorance defense: Persuasive as the TV lies might be, Navalny clearly isn’t falling for them; his brain rejects them. There is, of course, only one Navalny — but it would be arrogant in the extreme to assume that his visceral reactions are unique. Why would others buy the Goebbels-like Kremlin narratives after years of living in a much freer information environment than the one that exists today?

One should, of course, never underestimate people’s ability to ignore the news. Days after the Russian authorities banned Meta Inc. and its services — Facebook and Instagram — as “extremist,” and set out to block access to them, many Russian users were still posting negative reviews in app stores, complaining that Meta’s apps have stopped working. These users appear to have successfully insulated themselves from any information coming from outside their cozy bubbles — their handmade cosmetics businesses, their coaching practices, their dog- or baby-focused communities. Such isolation, however, takes effort — and even those who managed it have probably gotten the memo by now.

Ordinary Germans did know what the Nazis were up to, research has shown. Even with that era’s relatively limited media and communications, the Nazis’ crimes were impossible to miss, no matter how one might have tried. They could, however, refuse to fess up to their knowledge; they could even convince themselves of their own ignorance.

That, too, takes quite an effort, I realize as I read some fellow Russians’ social network posts or listen to Moscow acquaintances say things like “Not everything is black and white” or “We will never know the whole truth.” I have a sense that, if I press them, some might burst into tears or lash out at me in anger. The strain is ever-present, and I’m not sure whether it’s rooted in fear or an instinct for self-preservation: My own family struggles to cope with knowing that the Russian atrocities are being committed in our name, too.

It’s a burden we have to bear — probably for the rest of our lives. Those who will insist they’d been fooled by propaganda won’t be free of it. In these brutal weeks, only the openly, actively complicit are able to avoid the weight that’s bending Russians to the ground.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-04-13/yes-russians-know-what-their-military-is-doing-in-ukraine

Reply Quote

Date: 14/04/2022 09:28:48
From: Michael V
ID: 1872569
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Witty Rejoinder said:

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-04-13/yes-russians-know-what-their-military-is-doing-in-ukraine

Interesting opinion.

Reply Quote

Date: 14/04/2022 10:15:38
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1872580
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Michael V said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-04-13/yes-russians-know-what-their-military-is-doing-in-ukraine

Interesting opinion.

Here’s the flaw in their reasoning ¡

The social networks are full of stories of well-informed children calling their parents or older friends to tell them what’s going on — and running into a stubborn disbelief. But do people really trust their TV more than their own kids or other people they know personally? I seriously doubt it.

however

The surviving Soviets may not have their children’s technology smarts, but they beat them hands down in the kind of street smarts required for survival in a police state. They also have plenty of experience reading between propaganda lines. The assumption that these people, who laughed privately at the Soviet ideological fodder, have suddenly lost their ability to take state discourse with a bucketful of salt, seems less plausible to me than the idea that they’re reverting to oyster mode as their familiar environment returns.

yes but

They could, however, refuse to fess up to their knowledge; they could even convince themselves of their own ignorance. The strain is ever-present, and I’m not sure whether it’s rooted in fear or an instinct for self-preservation: My own family struggles to cope with knowing that the Russian atrocities are being committed in our name, too.

It’s easier to accede than most people think.

Reply Quote

Date: 14/04/2022 10:25:24
From: Cymek
ID: 1872586
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:


Michael V said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-04-13/yes-russians-know-what-their-military-is-doing-in-ukraine

Interesting opinion.

Here’s the flaw in their reasoning ¡

The social networks are full of stories of well-informed children calling their parents or older friends to tell them what’s going on — and running into a stubborn disbelief. But do people really trust their TV more than their own kids or other people they know personally? I seriously doubt it.

however

The surviving Soviets may not have their children’s technology smarts, but they beat them hands down in the kind of street smarts required for survival in a police state. They also have plenty of experience reading between propaganda lines. The assumption that these people, who laughed privately at the Soviet ideological fodder, have suddenly lost their ability to take state discourse with a bucketful of salt, seems less plausible to me than the idea that they’re reverting to oyster mode as their familiar environment returns.

yes but

They could, however, refuse to fess up to their knowledge; they could even convince themselves of their own ignorance. The strain is ever-present, and I’m not sure whether it’s rooted in fear or an instinct for self-preservation: My own family struggles to cope with knowing that the Russian atrocities are being committed in our name, too.

It’s easier to accede than most people think.

A police state is worse than an active war, you could win a war but in a police state you can’t trust others, can just disappear, fight back and family and friends may also pay.

Reply Quote

Date: 14/04/2022 10:33:23
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1872590
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Cymek said:


SCIENCE said:

Michael V said:

Interesting opinion.

Here’s the flaw in their reasoning ¡

The social networks are full of stories of well-informed children calling their parents or older friends to tell them what’s going on — and running into a stubborn disbelief. But do people really trust their TV more than their own kids or other people they know personally? I seriously doubt it.

however

The surviving Soviets may not have their children’s technology smarts, but they beat them hands down in the kind of street smarts required for survival in a police state. They also have plenty of experience reading between propaganda lines. The assumption that these people, who laughed privately at the Soviet ideological fodder, have suddenly lost their ability to take state discourse with a bucketful of salt, seems less plausible to me than the idea that they’re reverting to oyster mode as their familiar environment returns.

yes but

They could, however, refuse to fess up to their knowledge; they could even convince themselves of their own ignorance. The strain is ever-present, and I’m not sure whether it’s rooted in fear or an instinct for self-preservation: My own family struggles to cope with knowing that the Russian atrocities are being committed in our name, too.

It’s easier to accede than most people think.

A police state is worse than an active war, you could win a war but in a police state you can’t trust others, can just disappear, fight back and family and friends may also pay.

Speaking of win,

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-14/putin-disinformation-fake-war-ukraine-syria/100988412

oh well it’ll just be another Iraq then won’t it.

Reply Quote

Date: 14/04/2022 10:45:48
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1872593
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:

Cymek said:

SCIENCE said:

Here’s the flaw in their reasoning ¡

The social networks are full of stories of well-informed children calling their parents or older friends to tell them what’s going on — and running into a stubborn disbelief. But do people really trust their TV more than their own kids or other people they know personally? I seriously doubt it.

however

The surviving Soviets may not have their children’s technology smarts, but they beat them hands down in the kind of street smarts required for survival in a police state. They also have plenty of experience reading between propaganda lines. The assumption that these people, who laughed privately at the Soviet ideological fodder, have suddenly lost their ability to take state discourse with a bucketful of salt, seems less plausible to me than the idea that they’re reverting to oyster mode as their familiar environment returns.

yes but

They could, however, refuse to fess up to their knowledge; they could even convince themselves of their own ignorance. The strain is ever-present, and I’m not sure whether it’s rooted in fear or an instinct for self-preservation: My own family struggles to cope with knowing that the Russian atrocities are being committed in our name, too.

It’s easier to accede than most people think.

A police state is worse than an active war, you could win a war but in a police state you can’t trust others, can just disappear, fight back and family and friends may also pay.

Speaking of win,

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-14/putin-disinformation-fake-war-ukraine-syria/100988412

oh well it’ll just be another Iraq then won’t it.

sorry we meant another everything in the fucking middle eastern region

Ms Gaston says the US used private security contractors in the Afghanistan and Iraq wars at “huge, huge numbers” which “dwarf anything we’re talking about with Wagner.” “At a certain point, they would have been the second largest contingent in Iraq after US forces. If you count all the additional technical support and logistics, you could have had as many as 180,000 of them at the peak of activity,” she says. “ embraced this strategy. This was the way that they really amplified their operations in Afghanistan and Iraq at a much lower cost and much lower risk of Americans coming home in body bags.”

Ms Gaston makes clear that these groups were private security companies, rather than mercenaries, but they were still very problematic as “it’s a lot harder to have legal accountability for them.” And she says the trend towards outsourcing conflicts to privatised forces is concerning.

Reply Quote

Date: 14/04/2022 10:49:07
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1872594
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

sorry, wrong thread

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-14/checkmate-scott-morrison-facebook-comments-flood-victims/100989608

“Scott Morrison (ScoMo) $1000 is NOT much when you have NOTHING!,” read a comment on March 2, while another from March 9 asked: “You have given Ukraine millions hat about Australians????”

Reply Quote

Date: 14/04/2022 12:43:49
From: dv
ID: 1872626
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:


sorry, wrong thread

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-14/checkmate-scott-morrison-facebook-comments-flood-victims/100989608

“Scott Morrison (ScoMo) $1000 is NOT much when you have NOTHING!,” read a comment on March 2, while another from March 9 asked: “You have given Ukraine millions hat about Australians????”

That must be a fancy hat

Reply Quote

Date: 14/04/2022 12:48:01
From: Cymek
ID: 1872628
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


SCIENCE said:

sorry, wrong thread

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-14/checkmate-scott-morrison-facebook-comments-flood-victims/100989608

“Scott Morrison (ScoMo) $1000 is NOT much when you have NOTHING!,” read a comment on March 2, while another from March 9 asked: “You have given Ukraine millions hat about Australians????”

That must be a fancy hat

What about this hat

Reply Quote

Date: 14/04/2022 13:34:57
From: Cymek
ID: 1872642
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

See the Russians have lost a warship

Reply Quote

Date: 14/04/2022 13:39:01
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1872643
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Cymek said:


See the Russians have lost a warship

Was Sean Connery the captain?

Reply Quote

Date: 14/04/2022 13:46:28
From: Cymek
ID: 1872644
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Witty Rejoinder said:


Cymek said:

See the Russians have lost a warship

Was Sean Connery the captain?

Don’t think so

Reply Quote

Date: 14/04/2022 13:53:23
From: furious
ID: 1872646
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Cymek said:


Witty Rejoinder said:

Cymek said:

See the Russians have lost a warship

Was Sean Connery the captain?

Don’t think so

That was a submarine…

Reply Quote

Date: 14/04/2022 13:54:19
From: Cymek
ID: 1872648
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

furious said:


Cymek said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Was Sean Connery the captain?

Don’t think so

That was a submarine…

Red October

Reply Quote

Date: 14/04/2022 13:55:21
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1872650
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

furious said:


Cymek said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Was Sean Connery the captain?

Don’t think so

That was a submarine…

Like I’m going to waste my good material on you lot…

Reply Quote

Date: 14/04/2022 14:02:39
From: Cymek
ID: 1872651
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Witty Rejoinder said:


furious said:

Cymek said:

Don’t think so

That was a submarine…

Like I’m going to waste my good material on you lot…

This war is seemingly highlighting the vulnerabilities of modern weapons, tanks seems particularly outclassed by anti tank missiles
Obviously that is the sole purpose of the missiles but they seem very effective.
I suppose we haven’t really had a real war in many tears were both sides have similar capacity so the weapons don’t often meet equals or superiors

Reply Quote

Date: 14/04/2022 14:08:33
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1872652
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Cymek said:


Witty Rejoinder said:

furious said:

That was a submarine…

Like I’m going to waste my good material on you lot…

This war is seemingly highlighting the vulnerabilities of modern weapons, tanks seems particularly outclassed by anti tank missiles
Obviously that is the sole purpose of the missiles but they seem very effective.
I suppose we haven’t really had a real war in many tears were both sides have similar capacity so the weapons don’t often meet equals or superiors

I said ‘material’ not ‘materiel’!

boom tish

Reply Quote

Date: 14/04/2022 14:09:09
From: Cymek
ID: 1872653
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Wikipedia edit

Moskva (Russian: Москва — “Moscow”, formerly Slava (Russian: Слава, lit. ‘Glory’)) is was a guided missile cruiser of the Russian Navy. She was the lead ship of the Project 1164 Atlant class and was named after the city of Moscow. It is was the flagship of the Russian Black Sea Fleet.

Reply Quote

Date: 14/04/2022 15:55:05
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1872674
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Cymek said:


Wikipedia edit

Moskva (Russian: Москва — “Moscow”, formerly Slava (Russian: Слава, lit. ‘Glory’)) is was a guided missile cruiser of the Russian Navy. She was the lead ship of the Project 1164 Atlant class and was named after the city of Moscow. It is was the flagship of the Russian Black Sea Fleet.

It was the the ship which accommodated Mikhail Gorbachev at the 1989 Malta summit meeting, where he spoke with President George Bush Sr..

Reply Quote

Date: 14/04/2022 17:57:58
From: JudgeMental
ID: 1872700
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

I heard Russia was celebrating mayday earlier this year?

Reply Quote

Date: 14/04/2022 18:42:29
From: dv
ID: 1872707
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Russian warship ‘seriously damaged’ in ammunition explosion: state media

—-

Technically correct

Reply Quote

Date: 14/04/2022 18:45:16
From: JudgeMental
ID: 1872708
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


Russian warship ‘seriously damaged’ in ammunition explosion: state media

—-

Technically correct

Yes.

Reply Quote

Date: 14/04/2022 18:47:27
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1872709
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

JudgeMental said:


dv said:

Russian warship ‘seriously damaged’ in ammunition explosion: state media

—-

Technically correct

Yes.

Yes.

Ukrainian ammunition first, Russian ammunition afterwards.

Reply Quote

Date: 14/04/2022 18:47:59
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1872710
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Things are never so bad that there isn’t something to laugh at.

https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/a0ZnA7d_460svav1.mp4

Reply Quote

Date: 14/04/2022 18:54:16
From: Kingy
ID: 1872712
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Witty Rejoinder said:


Cymek said:

See the Russians have lost a warship

Was Sean Connery the captain?

He is now.

Reply Quote

Date: 14/04/2022 18:57:40
From: buffy
ID: 1872713
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


Russian warship ‘seriously damaged’ in ammunition explosion: state media

—-

Technically correct

So it’s got sea on the inside as well as the outside now.

Reply Quote

Date: 14/04/2022 18:57:42
From: Kingy
ID: 1872714
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Witty Rejoinder said:


furious said:

Cymek said:

Don’t think so

That was a submarine…

Like I’m going to waste my good material on you lot…

Hey, I got it!

Also, this was the ship that got told to “Go Fuck Yourself!”.

Ironic.

Reply Quote

Date: 14/04/2022 20:44:50
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1872733
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Kingy said:


Witty Rejoinder said:

furious said:

That was a submarine…

Like I’m going to waste my good material on you lot…

Hey, I got it!

Also, this was the ship that got told to “Go Fuck Yourself!”.

Ironic.

Reply Quote

Date: 14/04/2022 21:19:06
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1872736
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Slovakia in talks over possible transfer of MiG jets to Ukraine

https://www.politico.eu/article/slovakia-mig-jets-to-ukraine-prime-minister-eduard-heger-bratislava/?

Reply Quote

Date: 15/04/2022 00:54:46
From: dv
ID: 1872774
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Biden administration expands intel sharing with Ukraine on Donbas and Crimea, officials say

From CNN’s Katie Bo Lillis

US President Joe Biden’s administration is expanding its intelligence sharing with Ukraine to allow more information on Russian activities in eastern Ukraine and Crimea to be shared, as the US believes that Russia is shifting its strategy to concentrate on the south and the east, according to US officials and another source familiar with the matter.

New guidelines, put in place over the past several weeks, have loosened rules for intelligence sharing, specifically in regions that were under Russian control prior to the 2022 invasion. 

—-

Reply Quote

Date: 15/04/2022 06:15:58
From: dv
ID: 1872792
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


https://youtu.be/h4WEBwsuQf0

Ukrainian National Guardsman explains the Russian World ideology

https://youtu.be/1sPKSMeonxg

Same dude examines a shot down Russian drone

Reply Quote

Date: 15/04/2022 06:52:25
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1872799
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1514694135004999689

​​​​​​​“Russia’s defense ministry admits the Moskva cruiser, the flagship of its Black Sea fleet, has sunk.”

Reply Quote

Date: 15/04/2022 06:54:19
From: roughbarked
ID: 1872800
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:

https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1514694135004999689

​​​​​​​“Russia’s defense ministry admits the Moskva cruiser, the flagship of its Black Sea fleet, has sunk.”

Things are going really well in the special intervention of Mr Poo-Tin’s.

Reply Quote

Date: 15/04/2022 07:37:14
From: roughbarked
ID: 1872804
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-15/what-do-we-know-about-russia-s-oligarchs/100946390

Reply Quote

Date: 15/04/2022 08:58:27
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1872810
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Reply Quote

Date: 15/04/2022 19:41:17
From: Kingy
ID: 1873016
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Reply Quote

Date: 15/04/2022 20:03:38
From: party_pants
ID: 1873017
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Kingy said:



heh

Reply Quote

Date: 15/04/2022 22:43:42
From: Kingy
ID: 1873084
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Just reading about Russian military fails in the Putin/Ukraine war, and it’s a looong list.

Lol’d at russian troops stealing earbuds and iphones etc with a “Find your device” feature. Ukraine military just lobs shells at that location.

Blowing up a tank of nitric acid, only to have the wind waft fumes over your own troops. Russian commanders using easily trackable Ukranian cellphone sims.

Destroying 4G towers in Ukraine during initial phase of invasion. Not being able to use encrypted comms because their equipment requires 4G

Eating poison pie from old lady.

Live reporting a supply ship approaching a dock to unload weapons. Gets blowed up.

Having a babushka take out one of your drones with a jar of pickles.

Repeatedly land helicopters at Kherson airport, only to have them destroyed by Ukrainian artillery. 15 TIMES!

Showing invasion plans on live TV

Taking the lift in a building controlled by the Ukrainians

Losing a fight with a door.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/04/2022 00:35:24
From: dv
ID: 1873125
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Russia this week formally protested the US’ ongoing shipment of weapons to Ukraine, sending a diplomatic note to the State Department warning of “unpredictable consequences” should the support continue, according to two US officials and another source familiar with the document.

The note, known as a demarche, was sent earlier this week as the US was preparing to announce that it would be sending an additional $800 million military aid package to Ukraine. The Washington Post first reported on the document.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/04/15/politics/russia-us-diplomatic-note/index.html

Reply Quote

Date: 16/04/2022 00:42:53
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1873129
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


Russia this week formally protested the US’ ongoing shipment of weapons to Ukraine, sending a diplomatic note to the State Department warning of “unpredictable consequences” should the support continue, according to two US officials and another source familiar with the document.

The note, known as a demarche, was sent earlier this week as the US was preparing to announce that it would be sending an additional $800 million military aid package to Ukraine. The Washington Post first reported on the document.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/04/15/politics/russia-us-diplomatic-note/index.html

Worthy of a middle finger reply from the USA.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/04/2022 00:50:25
From: sibeen
ID: 1873133
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


dv said:

Russia this week formally protested the US’ ongoing shipment of weapons to Ukraine, sending a diplomatic note to the State Department warning of “unpredictable consequences” should the support continue, according to two US officials and another source familiar with the document.

The note, known as a demarche, was sent earlier this week as the US was preparing to announce that it would be sending an additional $800 million military aid package to Ukraine. The Washington Post first reported on the document.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/04/15/politics/russia-us-diplomatic-note/index.html

Worthy of a middle finger reply from the USA.

$800 million – pfft, chickenfeed. The Germans are sending about double that per week.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/04/2022 06:09:30
From: dv
ID: 1873148
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Reply Quote

Date: 16/04/2022 06:14:11
From: roughbarked
ID: 1873149
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:



Ship gone. :)

Reply Quote

Date: 16/04/2022 06:14:37
From: Michael V
ID: 1873151
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:



:)

Reply Quote

Date: 16/04/2022 07:01:53
From: buffy
ID: 1873155
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Kingy said:


Just reading about Russian military fails in the Putin/Ukraine war, and it’s a looong list.

Lol’d at russian troops stealing earbuds and iphones etc with a “Find your device” feature. Ukraine military just lobs shells at that location.

Blowing up a tank of nitric acid, only to have the wind waft fumes over your own troops. Russian commanders using easily trackable Ukranian cellphone sims.

Destroying 4G towers in Ukraine during initial phase of invasion. Not being able to use encrypted comms because their equipment requires 4G

Eating poison pie from old lady.

Live reporting a supply ship approaching a dock to unload weapons. Gets blowed up.

Having a babushka take out one of your drones with a jar of pickles.

Repeatedly land helicopters at Kherson airport, only to have them destroyed by Ukrainian artillery. 15 TIMES!

Showing invasion plans on live TV

Taking the lift in a building controlled by the Ukrainians

Losing a fight with a door.


Most of those things relate to not being properly tech savvy. And I thought I was a luddite.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/04/2022 07:21:01
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1873158
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Just reading that the Ukrainians claim they hit the ship with two Neptune anti-ship missiles.

And the Russians claim the commander of the ship died in the attack, but no word on any of the 500 crewmembers. But considering the 900 civilian executions performed around Kyiv and the shelling of refugee busses, it is hard to feel sympathy.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/04/2022 08:07:16
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1873159
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

buffy said:

Most of those things relate to not being properly tech savvy. And I thought I was a luddite.

It could also suggest a good degree of sloppiness and laziness in Russian training and military exercises.

Poor education in signals security, keeping electromagnetic radiations to a minimum, not using ‘found’ electronics.

No ‘what if…?’ thinking applied, so no appreciation of the potential consequences using e.g. unencrypted civilian-technology devices as part of your equipment.

Assuming ideal conditions in your exercises, just ticking off the boxes so you can report a ‘successful exercise’ and get back to selling the tank parts on the black market.

Sibeen would probably have more to say about such things.

I wonder if the Ukrainians have begun booby-trapping ‘desirable’ items like i-Phones and washing machines and microwave ovens that the Russians are likely to grab for?

Reply Quote

Date: 16/04/2022 16:20:23
From: Michael V
ID: 1873302
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Mariupol council says Russian troops removing bodies, prohibiting burials.

Mariupol City Council said Friday that local residents report Russian troops are digging up bodies previously buried in residential courtyards and not allowing any new burials “of people killed by them”.

“A watchman has been assigned to each courtyard and is not allowing Mariupol residents to lay to rest dead relatives or friends. Why the exhumation is being carried out and where the bodies will be taken is unknown,” according to a statement on the messaging app Telegram.

The claim could not be independently verified.”

———————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————-
Nothing to see here, folks.
———————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————-
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-16/ukraine-russia-live-war-updates-zelenskyy-putin/100994990

Reply Quote

Date: 16/04/2022 17:04:06
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1873313
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Michael V said:


Mariupol council says Russian troops removing bodies, prohibiting burials.

Mariupol City Council said Friday that local residents report Russian troops are digging up bodies previously buried in residential courtyards and not allowing any new burials “of people killed by them”.

“A watchman has been assigned to each courtyard and is not allowing Mariupol residents to lay to rest dead relatives or friends. Why the exhumation is being carried out and where the bodies will be taken is unknown,” according to a statement on the messaging app Telegram.

The claim could not be independently verified.”

———————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————-
Nothing to see here, folks.
———————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————-
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-16/ukraine-russia-live-war-updates-zelenskyy-putin/100994990

Bodies removed. No bodies, no atrocities.

‘No, we didn’t murder any civilians. The Ukrainians are just hiding them, and saying that we killed them. They’ll turn up soon, safe and sound, you’ll see.’

Reply Quote

Date: 16/04/2022 17:30:08
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1873316
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Troubling use of technology in the fog of war:

Ukraine is scanning faces of dead Russians, then contacting the mothers
Ukrainian officials say the use of facial recognition software could help end the brutal war. But some experts call it ‘classic psychological warfare’ that sets a gruesome precedent.

By Drew Harwell
Yesterday at 5:00 a.m. EDT

A Ukrainian serviceman takes a photo of a dead Russian soldier after Ukrainian forces overran a Russian position outside Kyiv on March 31. (Vadim Ghirda/AP)

Ukrainian officials have run more than 8,600 facial recognition searches on dead or captured Russian soldiers in the 50 days since Moscow’s invasion began, using the scans to identify bodies and contact hundreds of their families in what may be one of the most gruesome applications of the technology to date.

Are you on Telegram? Subscribe to our channel for the latest updates on Russia’s war in Ukraine.
The country’s IT Army, a volunteer force of hackers and activists that takes its direction from the Ukrainian government, says it has used those identifications to inform the families of the deaths of 582 Russians, including by sending them photos of the abandoned corpses.

The Ukrainians champion the use of face-scanning software from the U.S. tech firm Clearview AI as a brutal but effective way to stir up dissent inside Russia, discourage other fighters and hasten an end to a devastating war.

But some military and technology analysts worry that the strategy could backfire, inflaming anger over a shock campaign directed at mothers who may be thousands of miles from the drivers of the Kremlin’s war machine.

The West’s solidarity with Ukraine makes it tempting to support such a radical act designed to capitalize on family grief, said Stephanie Hare, a surveillance researcher in London. But contacting soldiers’ parents, she said, is “classic psychological warfare” and could set a dangerous new standard for future conflicts.

“If it were Russian soldiers doing this with Ukrainian mothers, we might say, ‘Oh, my God, that’s barbaric,’ ” she said. “And is it actually working? Or is it making them say: ‘Look at these lawless, cruel Ukrainians, doing this to our boys?’ ”

As Russia’s war in Ukraine founders, ominous rhetoric gains ground

Clearview AI’s chief executive, Hoan Ton-That, told The Washington Post that more than 340 officials across five Ukrainian government agencies now can use its tool to run facial recognition searches whenever they want, free of charge.

Clearview employees now hold weekly, sometimes daily, training calls over Zoom with new police and military officials looking to gain access. Ton-That recounted several “‘oh, wow’ moments” as the Ukrainians witnessed how much data — including family photos, social media posts and relationship details — they could gather from a single cadaver scan.

Some of them are using Clearview’s mobile app to scan faces while on the battlefield, he said. Others have logged in for training while stationed at a checkpoint or out on patrol, the night sky visible behind their faces.

“They’re so enthusiastic,” Ton-That said. “Their energy is really high. They say they’re going to win, every call.”

The company, Ton-That said, first offered its services last month to Ukraine’s Ministry of Defense after he saw Russian propaganda claiming that soldiers captured there were actors or frauds.

The system had primarily been used by police officers and federal investigators in the United States to see whether a photo of a suspect or witness matched any others in their database of 20 billion images taken from social media and the public Internet.

But about 10 percent of the database has come from Russia’s biggest social network, VKontakte, known as VK, making it a potentially useful tool for battlefield scans, Ton-That said.

Russia’s war dead belie its slogan that no one is left behind

Clearview shared with The Post emails from three Ukrainian agencies — the National Police, the Defense Ministry and a third agency that asked the company to remain confidential — confirming the software was in use. Officials at those agencies and the IT Army declined to comment further or did not respond to requests for comment. Clearview declined to identify two other Ukrainian agencies it said were currently using its software.

In emails that Clearview shared with The Post, a representative of the Defense Ministry said it had tested Clearview by scanning photos of dead soldiers’ faces and were “pleasantly surprised” when the tool returned links to the Russians’ VK and Instagram accounts.

With the military’s encouragement, other agencies tested the technology, too, Ton-That said. A National Police official said in emails shared with The Post that the agency scanned the face of an unidentified body found in Kharkiv with its head caved in and was pointed to the VK profile of a 32-year-old man who had been photographed with supporters of the Kharkiv People’s Republic, a separatist group.

Ukrainian agencies, Ton-That said, have used the app to confirm the identities of people at military checkpoints and to check whether a Ukrainian is a possible Russian infiltrator or saboteur. He argued that the system could deter Russian soldiers from committing war crimes, for fear of being identified, and said the Ukrainians are considering using the tool to verify the identities of Ukrainian refugees and their hosts as they flee for safety.

But officials’ strategy of informing families of their loved ones’ demise has raised concerns that it could anger the same Russians they had hoped to persuade. One national security expert said other Ukrainian actions — holding news conferences with captured Russian soldiers and posting to social media photos and videos showing prisoners of war — have been seen inside Russia not as a welcomed exposure to the truth but as a humiliation by the enemy.

The gory online campaign Ukraine hopes will sow anti-Putin dissent may violate the Geneva Convention

A video that the IT Army posted to Telegram this month showed snippets of what the group characterized as conversations with Russian soldiers’ relatives. In one chat, someone who was sent photos of a Russian soldier’s bloodied face responded, “It’s photoshop!!! THIS CAN’T BE.” The sender wrote back, according to the footage: “This is what happens when you send people to war.”

In another conversation, a stranger sent a message to a Russian mother saying her son was dead, alongside a photo showing a man’s body in the dirt — face grimacing and mouth agape. The recipient responded with disbelief, saying it wasn’t him, before the sender passed along another photo showing a gloved hand holding the man’s military documents.

“Why are you doing this?” the recipient wrote back. “Do you want me to die? I already don’t live. You must be enjoying this.”

The stranger responded that young men were already dying, by the thousands. This is “the only way to stop all this madness,” the sender wrote. “How many more people must die?”

The Post could not independently verify the conversations, and attempts to reach the mother were unsuccessful. But other elements of the same video show Clearview’s facial recognition search interface alongside names of Russian soldiers. In one clip, the search of one corpse’s face reveals the VK profile of a man photographed standing on a beach. The man’s profile, which remains online, shows he followed online groups devoted to the Russian army as well as fitness, fishing and barbecue.

4,000 letters and four hours of sleep: Ukrainian leader wages digital war

Beyond scanning corpses, Ukraine also is using facial recognition to identify Russian soldiers caught on camera looting Ukrainian homes and storefronts, an official with Ukraine’s Digital Transformation Ministry told The Post.

Mykhailo Fedorov, the head of that ministry, this month shared on Twitter and Instagram the name, hometown and personal photo of a man he said was recorded shipping hundreds of pounds of looted clothes from a Belarus post office to his home in eastern Russia. “Our technology will find all of them,” he wrote.

An official at the agency who spoke on the condition of anonymity told Clearview that it has used the system to identify people who had been detained in the country and check their social media for anything suspicious, including their “range of contacts.” More than 1,000 such searches were run within the first few weeks, the official said in an email that Clearview shared with The Post.

Some analysts said Ukraine could use the advanced technology to draw a contrast with Russia’s more rudimentary military equipment or to pursue humanitarian uses in a conflict marred by horrific Russian attacks.

But facial recognition search results are imperfect, and some experts worry that a misidentification could lead to the wrong person being told their child had died — or in the frenzy of war, could mean the difference between life or death. Privacy International, a digital-rights group, has called on Clearview to end its work in Ukraine, saying “the potential consequences would be too atrocious to be tolerated — such as mistaking civilians for soldiers.” (Ton-That has said Clearview’s search tool is accurate, including in cases of severe “facial damage.”)

Facial recognition firm Clearview AI tells investors it’s seeking massive expansion beyond law enforcement

The U.S. military used biometric scanners to collect the fingerprints, eye scans and face photos of people during the Afghanistan war, believing it could help confirm allies and identify threats. But during the troops’ rapid withdrawal last year, some of the devices were abandoned, raising fears that the sensitive data could be misused. (Clearview’s online system, Ton-That said, allows the company to quickly sever access if an account falls into the wrong hands.)

Clearview has stirred international controversy for years because of the way it gathered photos for its database, harvesting massive amounts from social media companies and other Internet sites without owners’ consent. The company has faced government investigations, ongoing lawsuits and demands from countries to delete their citizens’ data. Members of Congress have proposed blocking federal money from going to Clearview on the basis that its images have been illegitimately obtained.

In an investor presentation first revealed in February by The Post, the company said it wanted to raise $50 million to expand its offerings to private-industry clients and boost its data-collection powers so that “almost everyone in the world will be identifiable.”

Ukraine’s aggressive use of Clearview searches have pushed the private company onto the front lines of a diplomatically fraught conflict — one that even the U.S. government has engaged cautiously in, for fear of triggering a global war. Hare, the researcher, said the company appeared eager to use its Ukraine work as a way to advertise itself to government clients around the world and “cash in on tragedy.”

Ton-That said the company’s sole ambition is to help defend a besieged country. But he also acknowledged the war has helped provide a “good example for other parts of the U.S. government to see how these use cases work.”

“This is a new war,” he said. And the Ukrainians are “very creative with what they’ve been able to do.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/04/15/ukraine-facial-recognition-warfare/?

Reply Quote

Date: 16/04/2022 17:39:51
From: Michael V
ID: 1873319
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Michael V said:

Mariupol council says Russian troops removing bodies, prohibiting burials.

Mariupol City Council said Friday that local residents report Russian troops are digging up bodies previously buried in residential courtyards and not allowing any new burials “of people killed by them”.

“A watchman has been assigned to each courtyard and is not allowing Mariupol residents to lay to rest dead relatives or friends. Why the exhumation is being carried out and where the bodies will be taken is unknown,” according to a statement on the messaging app Telegram.

The claim could not be independently verified.”

———————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————-
Nothing to see here, folks.
———————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————-
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-16/ukraine-russia-live-war-updates-zelenskyy-putin/100994990

Bodies removed. No bodies, no atrocities.

‘No, we didn’t murder any civilians. The Ukrainians are just hiding them, and saying that we killed them. They’ll turn up soon, safe and sound, you’ll see.’

Pretty much.

Meanwhile: “What’s that unusual smell coming out of those funny buildings on wheels?”

Reply Quote

Date: 16/04/2022 17:45:22
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1873320
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Ukraine is scanning faces of dead Russians, then contacting the mothers
Ukrainian officials say the use of facial recognition software could help end the brutal war. But some experts call it ‘classic psychological warfare’ that sets a gruesome precedent.

I’m getting old.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/04/2022 17:48:32
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1873322
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Witty Rejoinder said:


Troubling use of technology in the fog of war:

Ukraine is scanning faces of dead Russians, then contacting the mothers
Ukrainian officials say the use of facial recognition software could help end the brutal war. But some experts call it ‘classic psychological warfare’ that sets a gruesome precedent.

By Drew Harwell
Yesterday at 5:00 a.m. EDT

A Ukrainian serviceman takes a photo of a dead Russian soldier after Ukrainian forces overran a Russian position outside Kyiv on March 31. (Vadim Ghirda/AP)

Ukrainian officials have run more than 8,600 facial recognition searches on dead or captured Russian soldiers in the 50 days since Moscow’s invasion began, using the scans to identify bodies and contact hundreds of their families in what may be one of the most gruesome applications of the technology to date.

Are you on Telegram? Subscribe to our channel for the latest updates on Russia’s war in Ukraine.
The country’s IT Army, a volunteer force of hackers and activists that takes its direction from the Ukrainian government, says it has used those identifications to inform the families of the deaths of 582 Russians, including by sending them photos of the abandoned corpses.

The Ukrainians champion the use of face-scanning software from the U.S. tech firm Clearview AI as a brutal but effective way to stir up dissent inside Russia, discourage other fighters and hasten an end to a devastating war.

But some military and technology analysts worry that the strategy could backfire, inflaming anger over a shock campaign directed at mothers who may be thousands of miles from the drivers of the Kremlin’s war machine.

The West’s solidarity with Ukraine makes it tempting to support such a radical act designed to capitalize on family grief, said Stephanie Hare, a surveillance researcher in London. But contacting soldiers’ parents, she said, is “classic psychological warfare” and could set a dangerous new standard for future conflicts.

“If it were Russian soldiers doing this with Ukrainian mothers, we might say, ‘Oh, my God, that’s barbaric,’ ” she said. “And is it actually working? Or is it making them say: ‘Look at these lawless, cruel Ukrainians, doing this to our boys?’ ”

As Russia’s war in Ukraine founders, ominous rhetoric gains ground

Clearview AI’s chief executive, Hoan Ton-That, told The Washington Post that more than 340 officials across five Ukrainian government agencies now can use its tool to run facial recognition searches whenever they want, free of charge.

Clearview employees now hold weekly, sometimes daily, training calls over Zoom with new police and military officials looking to gain access. Ton-That recounted several “‘oh, wow’ moments” as the Ukrainians witnessed how much data — including family photos, social media posts and relationship details — they could gather from a single cadaver scan.

Some of them are using Clearview’s mobile app to scan faces while on the battlefield, he said. Others have logged in for training while stationed at a checkpoint or out on patrol, the night sky visible behind their faces.

“They’re so enthusiastic,” Ton-That said. “Their energy is really high. They say they’re going to win, every call.”

The company, Ton-That said, first offered its services last month to Ukraine’s Ministry of Defense after he saw Russian propaganda claiming that soldiers captured there were actors or frauds.

The system had primarily been used by police officers and federal investigators in the United States to see whether a photo of a suspect or witness matched any others in their database of 20 billion images taken from social media and the public Internet.

But about 10 percent of the database has come from Russia’s biggest social network, VKontakte, known as VK, making it a potentially useful tool for battlefield scans, Ton-That said.

Russia’s war dead belie its slogan that no one is left behind

Clearview shared with The Post emails from three Ukrainian agencies — the National Police, the Defense Ministry and a third agency that asked the company to remain confidential — confirming the software was in use. Officials at those agencies and the IT Army declined to comment further or did not respond to requests for comment. Clearview declined to identify two other Ukrainian agencies it said were currently using its software.

In emails that Clearview shared with The Post, a representative of the Defense Ministry said it had tested Clearview by scanning photos of dead soldiers’ faces and were “pleasantly surprised” when the tool returned links to the Russians’ VK and Instagram accounts.

With the military’s encouragement, other agencies tested the technology, too, Ton-That said. A National Police official said in emails shared with The Post that the agency scanned the face of an unidentified body found in Kharkiv with its head caved in and was pointed to the VK profile of a 32-year-old man who had been photographed with supporters of the Kharkiv People’s Republic, a separatist group.

Ukrainian agencies, Ton-That said, have used the app to confirm the identities of people at military checkpoints and to check whether a Ukrainian is a possible Russian infiltrator or saboteur. He argued that the system could deter Russian soldiers from committing war crimes, for fear of being identified, and said the Ukrainians are considering using the tool to verify the identities of Ukrainian refugees and their hosts as they flee for safety.

But officials’ strategy of informing families of their loved ones’ demise has raised concerns that it could anger the same Russians they had hoped to persuade. One national security expert said other Ukrainian actions — holding news conferences with captured Russian soldiers and posting to social media photos and videos showing prisoners of war — have been seen inside Russia not as a welcomed exposure to the truth but as a humiliation by the enemy.

The gory online campaign Ukraine hopes will sow anti-Putin dissent may violate the Geneva Convention

A video that the IT Army posted to Telegram this month showed snippets of what the group characterized as conversations with Russian soldiers’ relatives. In one chat, someone who was sent photos of a Russian soldier’s bloodied face responded, “It’s photoshop!!! THIS CAN’T BE.” The sender wrote back, according to the footage: “This is what happens when you send people to war.”

In another conversation, a stranger sent a message to a Russian mother saying her son was dead, alongside a photo showing a man’s body in the dirt — face grimacing and mouth agape. The recipient responded with disbelief, saying it wasn’t him, before the sender passed along another photo showing a gloved hand holding the man’s military documents.

“Why are you doing this?” the recipient wrote back. “Do you want me to die? I already don’t live. You must be enjoying this.”

The stranger responded that young men were already dying, by the thousands. This is “the only way to stop all this madness,” the sender wrote. “How many more people must die?”

The Post could not independently verify the conversations, and attempts to reach the mother were unsuccessful. But other elements of the same video show Clearview’s facial recognition search interface alongside names of Russian soldiers. In one clip, the search of one corpse’s face reveals the VK profile of a man photographed standing on a beach. The man’s profile, which remains online, shows he followed online groups devoted to the Russian army as well as fitness, fishing and barbecue.

4,000 letters and four hours of sleep: Ukrainian leader wages digital war

Beyond scanning corpses, Ukraine also is using facial recognition to identify Russian soldiers caught on camera looting Ukrainian homes and storefronts, an official with Ukraine’s Digital Transformation Ministry told The Post.

Mykhailo Fedorov, the head of that ministry, this month shared on Twitter and Instagram the name, hometown and personal photo of a man he said was recorded shipping hundreds of pounds of looted clothes from a Belarus post office to his home in eastern Russia. “Our technology will find all of them,” he wrote.

An official at the agency who spoke on the condition of anonymity told Clearview that it has used the system to identify people who had been detained in the country and check their social media for anything suspicious, including their “range of contacts.” More than 1,000 such searches were run within the first few weeks, the official said in an email that Clearview shared with The Post.

Some analysts said Ukraine could use the advanced technology to draw a contrast with Russia’s more rudimentary military equipment or to pursue humanitarian uses in a conflict marred by horrific Russian attacks.

But facial recognition search results are imperfect, and some experts worry that a misidentification could lead to the wrong person being told their child had died — or in the frenzy of war, could mean the difference between life or death. Privacy International, a digital-rights group, has called on Clearview to end its work in Ukraine, saying “the potential consequences would be too atrocious to be tolerated — such as mistaking civilians for soldiers.” (Ton-That has said Clearview’s search tool is accurate, including in cases of severe “facial damage.”)

Facial recognition firm Clearview AI tells investors it’s seeking massive expansion beyond law enforcement

The U.S. military used biometric scanners to collect the fingerprints, eye scans and face photos of people during the Afghanistan war, believing it could help confirm allies and identify threats. But during the troops’ rapid withdrawal last year, some of the devices were abandoned, raising fears that the sensitive data could be misused. (Clearview’s online system, Ton-That said, allows the company to quickly sever access if an account falls into the wrong hands.)

Clearview has stirred international controversy for years because of the way it gathered photos for its database, harvesting massive amounts from social media companies and other Internet sites without owners’ consent. The company has faced government investigations, ongoing lawsuits and demands from countries to delete their citizens’ data. Members of Congress have proposed blocking federal money from going to Clearview on the basis that its images have been illegitimately obtained.

In an investor presentation first revealed in February by The Post, the company said it wanted to raise $50 million to expand its offerings to private-industry clients and boost its data-collection powers so that “almost everyone in the world will be identifiable.”

Ukraine’s aggressive use of Clearview searches have pushed the private company onto the front lines of a diplomatically fraught conflict — one that even the U.S. government has engaged cautiously in, for fear of triggering a global war. Hare, the researcher, said the company appeared eager to use its Ukraine work as a way to advertise itself to government clients around the world and “cash in on tragedy.”

Ton-That said the company’s sole ambition is to help defend a besieged country. But he also acknowledged the war has helped provide a “good example for other parts of the U.S. government to see how these use cases work.”

“This is a new war,” he said. And the Ukrainians are “very creative with what they’ve been able to do.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/04/15/ukraine-facial-recognition-warfare/?

“Oh look Igor, those nice Ukrainians have sent us a photo of our son who they shot, and look he has lost an arm too. They are so thoughtful and despite our loss, I shall always think well of them.”

Reply Quote

Date: 16/04/2022 17:55:52
From: JudgeMental
ID: 1873324
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbsC5zDVyfU

Link

Let’s talk about a BBC analysis of Russian personnel….

13:12

Reply Quote

Date: 16/04/2022 18:10:31
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1873328
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Michael V said:

Mariupol council says Russian troops removing bodies, prohibiting burials.

Mariupol City Council said Friday that local residents report Russian troops are digging up bodies previously buried in residential courtyards and not allowing any new burials “of people killed by them”.

“A watchman has been assigned to each courtyard and is not allowing Mariupol residents to lay to rest dead relatives or friends. Why the exhumation is being carried out and where the bodies will be taken is unknown,” according to a statement on the messaging app Telegram.

The claim could not be independently verified.”

———————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————-
Nothing to see here, folks.
———————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————-
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-16/ukraine-russia-live-war-updates-zelenskyy-putin/100994990

Bodies removed. No bodies, no atrocities.

‘No, we didn’t murder any civilians. The Ukrainians are just hiding them, and saying that we killed them. They’ll turn up soon, safe and sound, you’ll see.’

There are 900 civilian bodies with bullet holes in Kyiv, that should be enough.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/04/2022 21:37:52
From: Kingy
ID: 1873405
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Reply Quote

Date: 17/04/2022 18:18:39
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1873724
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

FSB arrests the commander of the Black Sea fleet vice admiral Igor Ossipov”

I suppose he is to blame for the explosion and bad weather.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/04/2022 11:24:57
From: Kingy
ID: 1873908
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Russia’s mighty flagship Moskva, shortly before embarking on her latest mission to secure the Black Sea bed from Ukrainian nazis.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/04/2022 11:46:59
From: dv
ID: 1873920
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Reply Quote

Date: 18/04/2022 11:49:54
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1873922
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:



hehe

Reply Quote

Date: 18/04/2022 12:00:33
From: Michael V
ID: 1873930
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:



:)

Reply Quote

Date: 18/04/2022 12:10:29
From: Tamb
ID: 1873935
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Kingy said:


Russia’s mighty flagship Moskva, shortly before embarking on her latest mission to secure the Black Sea bed from Ukrainian nazis.



Their aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov isn’t much better.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/04/2022 12:17:09
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1873939
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Kingy said:


Russia’s mighty flagship Moskva, shortly before embarking on her latest mission to secure the Black Sea bed from Ukrainian nazis.


Involuntary artificial reef.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/04/2022 12:23:53
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1873941
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Kingy said:


Russia’s mighty flagship Moskva, shortly before embarking on her latest mission to secure the Black Sea bed from Ukrainian nazis.


Feel the burn!

Reply Quote

Date: 18/04/2022 12:55:01
From: Kingy
ID: 1873964
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Russia24 TV has gone off-air, and is just broadcasting a test pattern.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/04/2022 16:10:02
From: dv
ID: 1874001
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

https://www.jpost.com/international/article-704436

Noam Chomsky: Ukraine should settle with Russia by giving up Crimea and the Donbas

Reply Quote

Date: 18/04/2022 16:13:00
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1874002
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


https://www.jpost.com/international/article-704436

Noam Chomsky: Ukraine should settle with Russia by giving up Crimea and the Donbas

Why not?

Acceding to a dictator’s territorial demands worked like a charm back in the late 1930s.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/04/2022 16:13:34
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1874003
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


https://www.jpost.com/international/article-704436

Noam Chomsky: Ukraine should settle with Russia by giving up Crimea and the Donbas

Bubblecar: Chomsky should sod off and stop embarrassing himself.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/04/2022 16:14:52
From: Tamb
ID: 1874004
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


dv said:

https://www.jpost.com/international/article-704436

Noam Chomsky: Ukraine should settle with Russia by giving up Crimea and the Donbas

Why not?

Acceding to a dictator’s territorial demands worked like a charm back in the late 1930s.


Right:

Reply Quote

Date: 18/04/2022 16:27:28
From: dv
ID: 1874005
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Reply Quote

Date: 18/04/2022 16:34:33
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1874006
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

The Ukraine should be allowed to continue their demilitarisation of Russia for as long as they see fit.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/04/2022 16:56:07
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1874010
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Tamb said:


captain_spalding said:

dv said:

https://www.jpost.com/international/article-704436

Noam Chomsky: Ukraine should settle with Russia by giving up Crimea and the Donbas

Why not?

Acceding to a dictator’s territorial demands worked like a charm back in the late 1930s.


Right:

to be fair he’s into linguistics and back then it was the same

Reply Quote

Date: 18/04/2022 16:59:59
From: sibeen
ID: 1874012
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


https://www.jpost.com/international/article-704436

Noam Chomsky: Ukraine should settle with Russia by giving up Crimea and the Donbas

He’s a cunning linguist.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/04/2022 17:15:29
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1874015
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Ukraine totally stopped reporting Covid cases, deaths, vaccination, testing and everything else on 25/2/2022.

Zero information from the Ukraine government since then.

Bad Ukraine.

A dozen or so other countries still report Covid data despite having ongoing wars within the country.

How is the Ukraine suppressing all this information?

Reply Quote

Date: 18/04/2022 17:17:23
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1874018
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

mollwollfumble said:


Ukraine totally stopped reporting Covid cases, deaths, vaccination, testing and everything else on 25/2/2022.

Zero information from the Ukraine government since then.

Bad Ukraine.

A dozen or so other countries still report Covid data despite having ongoing wars within the country.

How is the Ukraine suppressing all this information?

perhaps they have something else going on.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/04/2022 17:19:46
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1874019
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

mollwollfumble said:


Ukraine totally stopped reporting Covid cases, deaths, vaccination, testing and everything else on 25/2/2022.

Zero information from the Ukraine government since then.

Bad Ukraine.

A dozen or so other countries still report Covid data despite having ongoing wars within the country.

How is the Ukraine suppressing all this information?

You should be asking how Putin is suppressing the reality of 1 million excess deaths since you seem to think Russia are a paragon of statistical virtue.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/04/2022 17:19:52
From: dv
ID: 1874020
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

sarahs mum said:


mollwollfumble said:

Ukraine totally stopped reporting Covid cases, deaths, vaccination, testing and everything else on 25/2/2022.

Zero information from the Ukraine government since then.

Bad Ukraine.

A dozen or so other countries still report Covid data despite having ongoing wars within the country.

How is the Ukraine suppressing all this information?

perhaps they have something else going on.

Sure, I mean they have a World Cup qualifier coming up

Reply Quote

Date: 18/04/2022 17:30:33
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1874024
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

mollwollfumble said:


Ukraine totally stopped reporting Covid cases, deaths, vaccination, testing and everything else on 25/2/2022.

Zero information from the Ukraine government since then.

Bad Ukraine.

A dozen or so other countries still report Covid data despite having ongoing wars within the country.

How is the Ukraine suppressing all this information?

I think that they may be getting help from the Russian army with that.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/04/2022 17:31:21
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1874025
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

No wonder Russia went rogue after this guy retired as NATO commander:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_M._Breedlove

Reply Quote

Date: 18/04/2022 17:37:10
From: dv
ID: 1874026
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Witty Rejoinder said:


No wonder Russia went rogue after this guy retired as NATO commander:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_M._Breedlove


He is regularly quoted in western media. In July 2013, he told the BBC about his views on the longevity of the Afghan war. In April 2014, he spoke with CNN regarding the Russian troop buildup on the Ukrainian border.

In March 2015 he spoke on Ukrainian 1+1 channel on which he said that Russia has militarized Crimea. In May 2015, he told the Atlantic Council that freedom is being challenged by “a revanchist Russia embarked on a reaching revision of what once were shared hopes for a stable and mutually beneficial partnership.” In February 2016, during his testimony before the House Armed Services Committee, he said that “the U.S. military must rebuild in Europe to face a more aggressive Russia, which has chosen to be an adversary and poses a long-term existential threat to the United States”.
Supreme Allied Commander Europe General Philip M. Breedlove with commander of Central Command General Lloyd Austin during strategic dialogue meeting at the National War College, May 8, 2014.

Breedlove received the Golden Plate Award of the American Academy of Achievement presented by Awards Council member General Joseph W. Ralston, USAF, in 2014.

Breedlove is on the board of directors at the Atlantic Council, as well as being an advisory board member of Spirit of America, a 501©(3) organization that supports the safety and success of Americans serving abroad and the local people and partners they seek to help. Breedlove is also on the board of advisors of the Center for a New American Security (CNAS), a think tank funded by the likes of Northrop Grumman, Neal Blue of General Atomics, Lockheed Martin, and the U.S. government, among other governments and corporations.

Speaking with a panel on the topic of the Ukraine border crisis at the Atlantic Council in 2018, the subject outlined a range of measures which should be considered to counter Russian aggression such as financial targeting of certain Russian oligarchs, professionalization of military units, | long-range precision fires, and shore-based cruise missiles.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/04/2022 17:41:39
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1874027
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

>>long-range precision fires

Straight out of Harry Potter.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/04/2022 17:47:44
From: fsm
ID: 1874029
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Reply Quote

Date: 18/04/2022 18:06:16
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1874031
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

fsm said:


LOL

Reply Quote

Date: 18/04/2022 20:21:06
From: dv
ID: 1874077
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Zelensky stubbornly refuses to bow to Chompsky’s demands

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/04/17/politics/zelensky-russia-war-tapper-interview-cnntv/index.html

Reply Quote

Date: 18/04/2022 20:24:48
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1874080
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


Zelensky stubbornly refuses to bow to Chompsky’s demands

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/04/17/politics/zelensky-russia-war-tapper-interview-cnntv/index.html

While the Ukraine is putting up some spiffing resistance I fear we may have underestimated Russia’s resolve to preserve in this endeavour and eventually win through with weight of numbers.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/04/2022 20:29:30
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1874082
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Peak Warming Man said:


dv said:

Zelensky stubbornly refuses to bow to Chompsky’s demands

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/04/17/politics/zelensky-russia-war-tapper-interview-cnntv/index.html

While the Ukraine is putting up some spiffing resistance I fear we may have underestimated Russia’s resolve to preserve in this endeavour and eventually win through with weight of numbers.

Two points:

a) It’s not “the Ukraine”, it’s just Ukraine. Ukrainians find the expression “the Ukraine” offensive because it implies that Ukraine is just a region, not a nation.

b) I think you’ll find there can be no “win” for Russia in this war. No matter how much damage they do, they’ll be facing continual Ukraine resistance, amply supplied by the world’s richest nations, while Russia’s own economy continues to collapse.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/04/2022 20:45:47
From: party_pants
ID: 1874084
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Peak Warming Man said:


dv said:

Zelensky stubbornly refuses to bow to Chompsky’s demands

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/04/17/politics/zelensky-russia-war-tapper-interview-cnntv/index.html

While the Ukraine is putting up some spiffing resistance I fear we may have underestimated Russia’s resolve to preserve in this endeavour and eventually win through with weight of numbers.

Russia can’t afford it.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/04/2022 20:47:34
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1874086
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

party_pants said:


Peak Warming Man said:

dv said:

Zelensky stubbornly refuses to bow to Chompsky’s demands

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/04/17/politics/zelensky-russia-war-tapper-interview-cnntv/index.html

While the Ukraine is putting up some spiffing resistance I fear we may have underestimated Russia’s resolve to preserve in this endeavour and eventually win through with weight of numbers.

Russia can’t afford it.

Aha we knew it this is just some racist western plan to bankrupt CHINA ¡

Reply Quote

Date: 18/04/2022 20:52:46
From: dv
ID: 1874087
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Peak Warming Man said:


dv said:

Zelensky stubbornly refuses to bow to Chompsky’s demands

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/04/17/politics/zelensky-russia-war-tapper-interview-cnntv/index.html

While the Ukraine is putting up some spiffing resistance I fear we may have underestimated Russia’s resolve to preserve in this endeavour and eventually win through with weight of numbers.

I’m not any kind of expert in any of this, but it seems to me that the name of the game is to put so much pressure on Russia that eventually they just can’t continue. Their sources of income are disappearing, they can’t import what they need to sustain manufacturing, there’s dissent in the armed forces already, Putin’s allies can’t access their funds or even their overseas homes any more. He has 250000 actual army soldiers left alive, partly conscripts, partly long term professionals, not even sure why they are doing this: Ukraine has potentially ten million volunteers who know exactly what they are fighting for and it is just a matter of NATO keeping them well-armed and providing them with intel. It’s hard to imagine Putin just accepting a loss so it might be that there’s no end to this unless one way or another Putin leaves office. What are the odds of that? I’ve no idea. But I do think this is still a live game.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/04/2022 21:21:21
From: Kingy
ID: 1874093
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


Peak Warming Man said:

dv said:

Zelensky stubbornly refuses to bow to Chompsky’s demands

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/04/17/politics/zelensky-russia-war-tapper-interview-cnntv/index.html

While the Ukraine is putting up some spiffing resistance I fear we may have underestimated Russia’s resolve to preserve in this endeavour and eventually win through with weight of numbers.

I’m not any kind of expert in any of this, but it seems to me that the name of the game is to put so much pressure on Russia that eventually they just can’t continue. Their sources of income are disappearing, they can’t import what they need to sustain manufacturing, there’s dissent in the armed forces already, Putin’s allies can’t access their funds or even their overseas homes any more. He has 250000 actual army soldiers left alive, partly conscripts, partly long term professionals, not even sure why they are doing this: Ukraine has potentially ten million volunteers who know exactly what they are fighting for and it is just a matter of NATO keeping them well-armed and providing them with intel. It’s hard to imagine Putin just accepting a loss so it might be that there’s no end to this unless one way or another Putin leaves office. What are the odds of that? I’ve no idea. But I do think this is still a live game.

Assuming that it’s a live game, what do you reckon is the end game?

My guesses are:

1) Oligarchs losing megabucks and “et too brute” (Assassination of Putin).
2) Russia losing the war and Ukraine taking over some of their land.
3) Pootin using nukes, and things going bad.
4) NATO stepping in and giving pootin a slap down.
5) Ukraine losing and giving up land for peace.

I’m open for other options.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/04/2022 21:22:38
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1874095
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


Peak Warming Man said:

dv said:

Zelensky stubbornly refuses to bow to Chompsky’s demands

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/04/17/politics/zelensky-russia-war-tapper-interview-cnntv/index.html

While the Ukraine is putting up some spiffing resistance I fear we may have underestimated Russia’s resolve to preserve in this endeavour and eventually win through with weight of numbers.

I’m not any kind of expert in any of this, but it seems to me that the name of the game is to put so much pressure on Russia that eventually they just can’t continue. Their sources of income are disappearing, they can’t import what they need to sustain manufacturing, there’s dissent in the armed forces already, Putin’s allies can’t access their funds or even their overseas homes any more. He has 250000 actual army soldiers left alive, partly conscripts, partly long term professionals, not even sure why they are doing this: Ukraine has potentially ten million volunteers who know exactly what they are fighting for and it is just a matter of NATO keeping them well-armed and providing them with intel. It’s hard to imagine Putin just accepting a loss so it might be that there’s no end to this unless one way or another Putin leaves office. What are the odds of that? I’ve no idea. But I do think this is still a live game.

Russia is earning around a billion dollars a day from the sale of oil and gas. To stop this will take some time possibly running into years, so Russia will be able to afford the war for quite a while. Whether shortages at home will affect it much, well it didn’t for the UK during WWII, it only strengthened their resolve. Putin must win to save his own neck, so is not going to give in of his own accord. So yes this war has some time to run unless big things happen to force the situation.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/04/2022 21:24:54
From: sibeen
ID: 1874097
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


dv said:

Peak Warming Man said:

While the Ukraine is putting up some spiffing resistance I fear we may have underestimated Russia’s resolve to preserve in this endeavour and eventually win through with weight of numbers.

I’m not any kind of expert in any of this, but it seems to me that the name of the game is to put so much pressure on Russia that eventually they just can’t continue. Their sources of income are disappearing, they can’t import what they need to sustain manufacturing, there’s dissent in the armed forces already, Putin’s allies can’t access their funds or even their overseas homes any more. He has 250000 actual army soldiers left alive, partly conscripts, partly long term professionals, not even sure why they are doing this: Ukraine has potentially ten million volunteers who know exactly what they are fighting for and it is just a matter of NATO keeping them well-armed and providing them with intel. It’s hard to imagine Putin just accepting a loss so it might be that there’s no end to this unless one way or another Putin leaves office. What are the odds of that? I’ve no idea. But I do think this is still a live game.

Russia is earning around a billion dollars a day from the sale of oil and gas. To stop this will take some time possibly running into years, so Russia will be able to afford the war for quite a while. Whether shortages at home will affect it much, well it didn’t for the UK during WWII, it only strengthened their resolve. Putin must win to save his own neck, so is not going to give in of his own accord. So yes this war has some time to run unless big things happen to force the situation.

India has stepped into the breach and are buying the oil and coal that has been embargoed by other countries. Russia is giving them a big fat discount on the going rates.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/04/2022 21:32:04
From: dv
ID: 1874100
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:

To stop this will take some time possibly running into years

Quite possibly.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/04/2022 21:32:18
From: party_pants
ID: 1874101
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

sibeen said:


PermeateFree said:

dv said:

I’m not any kind of expert in any of this, but it seems to me that the name of the game is to put so much pressure on Russia that eventually they just can’t continue. Their sources of income are disappearing, they can’t import what they need to sustain manufacturing, there’s dissent in the armed forces already, Putin’s allies can’t access their funds or even their overseas homes any more. He has 250000 actual army soldiers left alive, partly conscripts, partly long term professionals, not even sure why they are doing this: Ukraine has potentially ten million volunteers who know exactly what they are fighting for and it is just a matter of NATO keeping them well-armed and providing them with intel. It’s hard to imagine Putin just accepting a loss so it might be that there’s no end to this unless one way or another Putin leaves office. What are the odds of that? I’ve no idea. But I do think this is still a live game.

Russia is earning around a billion dollars a day from the sale of oil and gas. To stop this will take some time possibly running into years, so Russia will be able to afford the war for quite a while. Whether shortages at home will affect it much, well it didn’t for the UK during WWII, it only strengthened their resolve. Putin must win to save his own neck, so is not going to give in of his own accord. So yes this war has some time to run unless big things happen to force the situation.

India has stepped into the breach and are buying the oil and coal that has been embargoed by other countries. Russia is giving them a big fat discount on the going rates.

They will have trouble shipping it out in any great quantity to any non-European country not connected by pipeline. To get to India, Russian oil needs to travel through quite a few bottlenecks: the Bosphorus – Dardenelles, then the Aegean, then the Suez, the the Red Sea, and then the Arabian Sea. Wouldn’t be putting a whole lot of hope on that passage being permanently open. There is no feasible oil pipeline route from Russia to India without going via Pakistan.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/04/2022 22:30:34
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1874122
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Hold on.

So OWID has no data on Covid from Ukraine after mid February 2022. Flat zero, zip, zilch.

But Worldometer does have Covid data from Ukraine, up to 14th April 2022.

Annoying to me because Worldometer data can’t be downloaded into Excel.

I can see that that means that I can get a much better calculation of the current number of active cases in Ukraine, by manually copying down one point at a time from Worldometer.

By the way, another case where Worldometer works and OWID fails is the Channel Islands. OWID has no Covid cases for them, but Worldometer does.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/04/2022 22:31:55
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1874124
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Yep looks like ukraine has it all sewn up

Im sure it will be fine

Reply Quote

Date: 18/04/2022 22:47:02
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1874126
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

mollwollfumble said:


Hold on.

So OWID has no data on Covid from Ukraine after mid February 2022. Flat zero, zip, zilch.

But Worldometer does have Covid data from Ukraine, up to 14th April 2022.

Annoying to me because Worldometer data can’t be downloaded into Excel.

I can see that that means that I can get a much better calculation of the current number of active cases in Ukraine, by manually copying down one point at a time from Worldometer.

By the way, another case where Worldometer works and OWID fails is the Channel Islands. OWID has no Covid cases for them, but Worldometer does.

If you right click on a Worldometer graph and select View page source, and scroll down, you will find long lines of comma separated numbers for daily deaths etc, which you could copy and paste into Excel, or perhaps better, paste into a text file and import that into Excel.

There should be a way to get it into separate cells without too much work.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/04/2022 23:37:47
From: sibeen
ID: 1874133
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Fucking gold!

Reply Quote

Date: 18/04/2022 23:42:57
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1874135
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

sibeen said:


Fucking gold!

Heh.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/04/2022 05:20:23
From: Michael V
ID: 1874168
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

mollwollfumble said:


Ukraine totally stopped reporting Covid cases, deaths, vaccination, testing and everything else on 25/2/2022.

Zero information from the Ukraine government since then.

Bad Ukraine.

A dozen or so other countries still report Covid data despite having ongoing wars within the country.

How is the Ukraine suppressing all this information?

They might be a tad busy.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/04/2022 05:23:33
From: Michael V
ID: 1874169
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


Witty Rejoinder said:

No wonder Russia went rogue after this guy retired as NATO commander:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_M._Breedlove


He is regularly quoted in western media. In July 2013, he told the BBC about his views on the longevity of the Afghan war. In April 2014, he spoke with CNN regarding the Russian troop buildup on the Ukrainian border.

In March 2015 he spoke on Ukrainian 1+1 channel on which he said that Russia has militarized Crimea. In May 2015, he told the Atlantic Council that freedom is being challenged by “a revanchist Russia embarked on a reaching revision of what once were shared hopes for a stable and mutually beneficial partnership.” In February 2016, during his testimony before the House Armed Services Committee, he said that “the U.S. military must rebuild in Europe to face a more aggressive Russia, which has chosen to be an adversary and poses a long-term existential threat to the United States”.
Supreme Allied Commander Europe General Philip M. Breedlove with commander of Central Command General Lloyd Austin during strategic dialogue meeting at the National War College, May 8, 2014.

Breedlove received the Golden Plate Award of the American Academy of Achievement presented by Awards Council member General Joseph W. Ralston, USAF, in 2014.

Breedlove is on the board of directors at the Atlantic Council, as well as being an advisory board member of Spirit of America, a 501©(3) organization that supports the safety and success of Americans serving abroad and the local people and partners they seek to help. Breedlove is also on the board of advisors of the Center for a New American Security (CNAS), a think tank funded by the likes of Northrop Grumman, Neal Blue of General Atomics, Lockheed Martin, and the U.S. government, among other governments and corporations.

Speaking with a panel on the topic of the Ukraine border crisis at the Atlantic Council in 2018, the subject outlined a range of measures which should be considered to counter Russian aggression such as financial targeting of certain Russian oligarchs, professionalization of military units, | long-range precision fires, and shore-based cruise missiles.


Hmmmm.

Interesting.

Witty may well have a point.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/04/2022 06:03:29
From: Michael V
ID: 1874170
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


Peak Warming Man said:

dv said:

Zelensky stubbornly refuses to bow to Chompsky’s demands

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/04/17/politics/zelensky-russia-war-tapper-interview-cnntv/index.html

While the Ukraine is putting up some spiffing resistance I fear we may have underestimated Russia’s resolve to preserve in this endeavour and eventually win through with weight of numbers.

I’m not any kind of expert in any of this, but it seems to me that the name of the game is to put so much pressure on Russia that eventually they just can’t continue. Their sources of income are disappearing, they can’t import what they need to sustain manufacturing, there’s dissent in the armed forces already, Putin’s allies can’t access their funds or even their overseas homes any more. He has 250000 actual army soldiers left alive, partly conscripts, partly long term professionals, not even sure why they are doing this: Ukraine has potentially ten million volunteers who know exactly what they are fighting for and it is just a matter of NATO keeping them well-armed and providing them with intel. It’s hard to imagine Putin just accepting a loss so it might be that there’s no end to this unless one way or another Putin leaves office. What are the odds of that? I’ve no idea. But I do think this is still a live game.

As Putin runs out of options, instead of backing down, he might well throw nukes. This concerns me very much.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/04/2022 06:12:41
From: Michael V
ID: 1874172
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

sibeen said:


Fucking gold!

:)

Reply Quote

Date: 19/04/2022 06:54:47
From: roughbarked
ID: 1874183
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Michael V said:


mollwollfumble said:

Ukraine totally stopped reporting Covid cases, deaths, vaccination, testing and everything else on 25/2/2022.

Zero information from the Ukraine government since then.

Bad Ukraine.

A dozen or so other countries still report Covid data despite having ongoing wars within the country.

How is the Ukraine suppressing all this information?

They might be a tad busy.

The hospitals are all bombed out.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/04/2022 10:39:22
From: dv
ID: 1874244
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

https://euroweeklynews.com/2022/04/18/google-maps-removes-blurring-of-russias-military-installations/

Heh

Reply Quote

Date: 19/04/2022 12:52:35
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1874275
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Michael V said:


sibeen said:

Fucking gold!

:)

I have ordered some, will see if they get here.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/04/2022 14:32:56
From: dv
ID: 1874286
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

20000 foreigners have joined the International Legion of Territorial Defense of Ukraine. Among them is Malcolm Nance, US veteran and defence expert now 61 years old.

https://youtu.be/7Dmy16fInUE

Reply Quote

Date: 19/04/2022 14:45:32
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1874289
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


20000 foreigners have joined the International Legion of Territorial Defense of Ukraine. Among them is Malcolm Nance, US veteran and defence expert now 61 years old.

https://youtu.be/7Dmy16fInUE

captions say ‘Police say incest gators’ instead of investigators.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/04/2022 14:51:33
From: dv
ID: 1874290
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

sarahs mum said:


dv said:

20000 foreigners have joined the International Legion of Territorial Defense of Ukraine. Among them is Malcolm Nance, US veteran and defence expert now 61 years old.

https://youtu.be/7Dmy16fInUE

captions say ‘Police say incest gators’ instead of investigators.

Florida story

Reply Quote

Date: 19/04/2022 14:52:01
From: Cymek
ID: 1874291
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

I was reading the USA has supplied Ukraine with about 1/3 of its anti tank missiles and it will take over three years to replace them, they make about 350 or so a year

Reply Quote

Date: 19/04/2022 14:55:02
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1874292
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

isn’t it wonderful that we can have wars to harden a whole new generation of violent extremists on all sides to contribute to human development well into the next few decades

Reply Quote

Date: 19/04/2022 14:56:48
From: dv
ID: 1874294
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Cymek said:


I was reading the USA has supplied Ukraine with about 1/3 of its anti tank missiles and it will take over three years to replace them, they make about 350 or so a year

They only make 350 a year because they only need to, normally, as they only use a few in training. They can manufacture about 7000 a year.

https://www.csis.org/analysis/will-united-states-run-out-javelins-russia-runs-out-tanks

Reply Quote

Date: 19/04/2022 15:06:21
From: Cymek
ID: 1874295
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:


isn’t it wonderful that we can have wars to harden a whole new generation of violent extremists on all sides to contribute to human development well into the next few decades

Seems to be like that doesn’t it
Need to fight a war that disables weapons and soldiers in a non lethal permanent manner.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/04/2022 15:07:04
From: Cymek
ID: 1874296
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


Cymek said:

I was reading the USA has supplied Ukraine with about 1/3 of its anti tank missiles and it will take over three years to replace them, they make about 350 or so a year

They only make 350 a year because they only need to, normally, as they only use a few in training. They can manufacture about 7000 a year.

https://www.csis.org/analysis/will-united-states-run-out-javelins-russia-runs-out-tanks

Ok
What I read didn’t mention that

Reply Quote

Date: 19/04/2022 15:18:00
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1874298
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


Cymek said:

I was reading the USA has supplied Ukraine with about 1/3 of its anti tank missiles and it will take over three years to replace them, they make about 350 or so a year

They only make 350 a year because they only need to, normally, as they only use a few in training. They can manufacture about 7000 a year.

https://www.csis.org/analysis/will-united-states-run-out-javelins-russia-runs-out-tanks

In Italy in WW2, there was a German gun defending a narrow road along a steep hillside. Frontal attack was the only option.

Tank after tank was sent forward against the gun, only to be knocked out by well-aimed shots.

Eventually, however, the Germans waved the white flag, and surrendered.

“Why did you surrender?”, a British officer asked his Germa counterpart. “You could have held us off forever.”

The German shrugged and said “we ran out of shells before you ran out of tanks”.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/04/2022 17:30:41
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1874317
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

This could be the game changer for Ukraine, the Switchblade 600, a new weapon manufactured by America that is a precision flying bomb capable of taking out heavy armor vehicles like tanks and with the very low cost of around $6,000 each. This means the US could make thousands to supply Ukraine and with a range of 80 km they could not only drive Russia from Ukraine, but from territory captured 8 years ago. Currently there is little to no defense against this new age weapon.

100 of these weapons have been supplied to Ukraine to test under combat conditions and to report back with the results, then the Americans will go into large scale manufacture to provide a weapon that could drive Russia from Ukraine soil.

There was a much smaller weapon called the Switchblade 300 that was used in Afghanistan to take out more standard motor vehicles, being only 5 kg in weight it was carried by soldiers for precision air attacks, which were easy to use and did not need air-support.

https://www.avinc.com/images/uploads/product_docs/Switchblade_600_Datasheet_07192021.pdf

Reply Quote

Date: 19/04/2022 17:35:58
From: Michael V
ID: 1874320
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


This could be the game changer for Ukraine, the Switchblade 600, a new weapon manufactured by America that is a precision flying bomb capable of taking out heavy armor vehicles like tanks and with the very low cost of around $6,000 each. This means the US could make thousands to supply Ukraine and with a range of 80 km they could not only drive Russia from Ukraine, but from territory captured 8 years ago. Currently there is little to no defense against this new age weapon.

100 of these weapons have been supplied to Ukraine to test under combat conditions and to report back with the results, then the Americans will go into large scale manufacture to provide a weapon that could drive Russia from Ukraine soil.

There was a much smaller weapon called the Switchblade 300 that was used in Afghanistan to take out more standard motor vehicles, being only 5 kg in weight it was carried by soldiers for precision air attacks, which were easy to use and did not need air-support.

https://www.avinc.com/images/uploads/product_docs/Switchblade_600_Datasheet_07192021.pdf

Thumbs up!

Lets hope this works out well.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/04/2022 17:39:53
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1874322
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


This could be the game changer for Ukraine, the Switchblade 600, a new weapon manufactured by America that is a precision flying bomb capable of taking out heavy armor vehicles like tanks and with the very low cost of around $6,000 each. This means the US could make thousands to supply Ukraine and with a range of 80 km they could not only drive Russia from Ukraine, but from territory captured 8 years ago. Currently there is little to no defense against this new age weapon.

100 of these weapons have been supplied to Ukraine to test under combat conditions and to report back with the results, then the Americans will go into large scale manufacture to provide a weapon that could drive Russia from Ukraine soil.

There was a much smaller weapon called the Switchblade 300 that was used in Afghanistan to take out more standard motor vehicles, being only 5 kg in weight it was carried by soldiers for precision air attacks, which were easy to use and did not need air-support.

https://www.avinc.com/images/uploads/product_docs/Switchblade_600_Datasheet_07192021.pdf

We find the neighbours dogs annoying, I might get a couple of these just to show we’re serious.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/04/2022 17:40:58
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1874323
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Michael V said:


PermeateFree said:

This could be the game changer for Ukraine, the Switchblade 600, a new weapon manufactured by America that is a precision flying bomb capable of taking out heavy armor vehicles like tanks and with the very low cost of around $6,000 each. This means the US could make thousands to supply Ukraine and with a range of 80 km they could not only drive Russia from Ukraine, but from territory captured 8 years ago. Currently there is little to no defense against this new age weapon.

100 of these weapons have been supplied to Ukraine to test under combat conditions and to report back with the results, then the Americans will go into large scale manufacture to provide a weapon that could drive Russia from Ukraine soil.

There was a much smaller weapon called the Switchblade 300 that was used in Afghanistan to take out more standard motor vehicles, being only 5 kg in weight it was carried by soldiers for precision air attacks, which were easy to use and did not need air-support.

https://www.avinc.com/images/uploads/product_docs/Switchblade_600_Datasheet_07192021.pdf

Thumbs up!

Lets hope this works out well.

More detail on this video. The Switchblade weapons are covered in the last quarter of the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fqqsai4kypU&ab_channel=JakeBroe

Reply Quote

Date: 19/04/2022 17:41:52
From: Cymek
ID: 1874325
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Is it hypocritical for all the aid and support given to Ukraine when most conflicts people don’t overly care about.
Is it a white people dying thing
I’m assuming this war is full on compared to most other conflicts, deliberate targeting of cities and civilians as standard policy it seems.
Also the worry if nothing is done Russia moves elsewhere.
Its not like non Western nations tend to get involved in conflicts they aren’t directly involved in either.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/04/2022 17:42:31
From: Cymek
ID: 1874326
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Spiny Norman said:


PermeateFree said:

This could be the game changer for Ukraine, the Switchblade 600, a new weapon manufactured by America that is a precision flying bomb capable of taking out heavy armor vehicles like tanks and with the very low cost of around $6,000 each. This means the US could make thousands to supply Ukraine and with a range of 80 km they could not only drive Russia from Ukraine, but from territory captured 8 years ago. Currently there is little to no defense against this new age weapon.

100 of these weapons have been supplied to Ukraine to test under combat conditions and to report back with the results, then the Americans will go into large scale manufacture to provide a weapon that could drive Russia from Ukraine soil.

There was a much smaller weapon called the Switchblade 300 that was used in Afghanistan to take out more standard motor vehicles, being only 5 kg in weight it was carried by soldiers for precision air attacks, which were easy to use and did not need air-support.

https://www.avinc.com/images/uploads/product_docs/Switchblade_600_Datasheet_07192021.pdf

We find the neighbours dogs annoying, I might get a couple of these just to show we’re serious.

Adequate response

Reply Quote

Date: 19/04/2022 17:45:32
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1874328
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Cymek said:


Spiny Norman said:

PermeateFree said:

This could be the game changer for Ukraine, the Switchblade 600, a new weapon manufactured by America that is a precision flying bomb capable of taking out heavy armor vehicles like tanks and with the very low cost of around $6,000 each. This means the US could make thousands to supply Ukraine and with a range of 80 km they could not only drive Russia from Ukraine, but from territory captured 8 years ago. Currently there is little to no defense against this new age weapon.

100 of these weapons have been supplied to Ukraine to test under combat conditions and to report back with the results, then the Americans will go into large scale manufacture to provide a weapon that could drive Russia from Ukraine soil.

There was a much smaller weapon called the Switchblade 300 that was used in Afghanistan to take out more standard motor vehicles, being only 5 kg in weight it was carried by soldiers for precision air attacks, which were easy to use and did not need air-support.

https://www.avinc.com/images/uploads/product_docs/Switchblade_600_Datasheet_07192021.pdf

We find the neighbours dogs annoying, I might get a couple of these just to show we’re serious.

Adequate response

“I got this cruise missile to stop them neighbour kids playin’ ZZ Top so damn loud.”

Reply Quote

Date: 19/04/2022 17:50:30
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1874330
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Cymek said:


Is it hypocritical for all the aid and support given to Ukraine when most conflicts people don’t overly care about.
Is it a white people dying thing
I’m assuming this war is full on compared to most other conflicts, deliberate targeting of cities and civilians as standard policy it seems.
Also the worry if nothing is done Russia moves elsewhere.
Its not like non Western nations tend to get involved in conflicts they aren’t directly involved in either.

Putin is a psychological bulling dictator trying to destroy and take over a neighboring country that did not threaten or harm him. Hitler did much the same and look where that ended. Yes the Ukraine war is a good place for the west to test Russian arms and to see their limitations. Such people like Putin and his cronies must be stopped for the greater good.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/04/2022 18:06:00
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1874332
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


Cymek said:

Is it hypocritical for all the aid and support given to Ukraine when most conflicts people don’t overly care about.
Is it a white people dying thing
I’m assuming this war is full on compared to most other conflicts, deliberate targeting of cities and civilians as standard policy it seems.
Also the worry if nothing is done Russia moves elsewhere.
Its not like non Western nations tend to get involved in conflicts they aren’t directly involved in either.

Putin is a psychological bulling dictator trying to destroy and take over a neighboring country that did not threaten or harm him. Hitler did much the same and look where that ended. Yes the Ukraine war is a good place for the west to test Russian arms and to see their limitations. Such people like Putin and his cronies must be stopped for the greater good.

bulling = bullying

Reply Quote

Date: 19/04/2022 19:09:25
From: dv
ID: 1874376
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Cymek said:


Is it hypocritical for all the aid and support given to Ukraine when most conflicts people don’t overly care about.
Is it a white people dying thing
I’m assuming this war is full on compared to most other conflicts, deliberate targeting of cities and civilians as standard policy it seems.
Also the worry if nothing is done Russia moves elsewhere.
Its not like non Western nations tend to get involved in conflicts they aren’t directly involved in either.

No doubt ethnicity is part of it but part of the motivation is also about concern about the expansion of a dangerous autocracy. In any case, the support is intrinsically a good thing.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/04/2022 19:14:56
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1874379
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


Cymek said:

Is it hypocritical for all the aid and support given to Ukraine when most conflicts people don’t overly care about.
Is it a white people dying thing
I’m assuming this war is full on compared to most other conflicts, deliberate targeting of cities and civilians as standard policy it seems.
Also the worry if nothing is done Russia moves elsewhere.
Its not like non Western nations tend to get involved in conflicts they aren’t directly involved in either.

No doubt ethnicity is part of it but part of the motivation is also about concern about the expansion of a dangerous autocracy. In any case, the support is intrinsically a good thing.

Also most conflict these days are civil wars between various factions and civil wars are a lot less easy to intervene in when half the population are technically the enemy.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/04/2022 19:17:07
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1874381
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Witty Rejoinder said:


dv said:

Cymek said:

Is it hypocritical for all the aid and support given to Ukraine when most conflicts people don’t overly care about.
Is it a white people dying thing
I’m assuming this war is full on compared to most other conflicts, deliberate targeting of cities and civilians as standard policy it seems.
Also the worry if nothing is done Russia moves elsewhere.
Its not like non Western nations tend to get involved in conflicts they aren’t directly involved in either.

No doubt ethnicity is part of it but part of the motivation is also about concern about the expansion of a dangerous autocracy. In any case, the support is intrinsically a good thing.

Also most conflict these days are civil wars between various factions and civil wars are a lot less easy to intervene in when half the population are technically the enemy.

Hmm Cymek has probably left work for the day. I’ll commit it to the aether instead.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/04/2022 19:32:40
From: party_pants
ID: 1874388
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


Cymek said:

Is it hypocritical for all the aid and support given to Ukraine when most conflicts people don’t overly care about.
Is it a white people dying thing
I’m assuming this war is full on compared to most other conflicts, deliberate targeting of cities and civilians as standard policy it seems.
Also the worry if nothing is done Russia moves elsewhere.
Its not like non Western nations tend to get involved in conflicts they aren’t directly involved in either.

No doubt ethnicity is part of it but part of the motivation is also about concern about the expansion of a dangerous autocracy. In any case, the support is intrinsically a good thing.

Russia is an existential threat to the rest of Europe. So of course they are more worried about it than any other conflict in Asia or Africa.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/04/2022 14:26:52
From: dv
ID: 1874610
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220419-un-to-debate-move-to-limit-veto-power-of-security-council-permanent-members

United Nations (United States) (AFP) – Liechtenstein is to convene the UN General Assembly on Tuesday to debate a draft resolution — backed by Washington — requiring the five permanent members of the Security Council to justify their use of the veto.

An old idea aimed at making Security Council permanent members cut back use of their veto powers, it has been revived by Russia’s recent invasion of Ukraine.

Moscow’s veto power has allowed it to paralyze action in the Security Council, which is supposed to intervene in such conflicts as guarantor of global peace, as defined by the Charter of the United Nations.

The Liechtenstein proposal, co-sponsored by some 50 countries including the United States but, significantly, none of the other four permanent members of the Security Council — Russia, China, France and Britain — should be the subject of an upcoming vote, according to diplomats.

The Security Council also has 10 non-permanent members, who do not have the right of veto.

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220419-un-to-debate-move-to-limit-veto-power-of-security-council-permanent-members

Reply Quote

Date: 20/04/2022 14:28:19
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1874612
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220419-un-to-debate-move-to-limit-veto-power-of-security-council-permanent-members

United Nations (United States) (AFP) – Liechtenstein is to convene the UN General Assembly on Tuesday to debate a draft resolution — backed by Washington — requiring the five permanent members of the Security Council to justify their use of the veto.

An old idea aimed at making Security Council permanent members cut back use of their veto powers, it has been revived by Russia’s recent invasion of Ukraine.

Moscow’s veto power has allowed it to paralyze action in the Security Council, which is supposed to intervene in such conflicts as guarantor of global peace, as defined by the Charter of the United Nations.

The Liechtenstein proposal, co-sponsored by some 50 countries including the United States but, significantly, none of the other four permanent members of the Security Council — Russia, China, France and Britain — should be the subject of an upcoming vote, according to diplomats.

The Security Council also has 10 non-permanent members, who do not have the right of veto.

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220419-un-to-debate-move-to-limit-veto-power-of-security-council-permanent-members

can changes to veto power be vetoed

Reply Quote

Date: 20/04/2022 14:35:44
From: dv
ID: 1874616
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

I’m a bit surprised that the UK and France opposed this measure since they never use their veto powers these days. Their last vetoes were in relation to Panama in the 1980s.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/04/2022 14:56:08
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1874621
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Might as well put this here:

Ukrainian coat of arms in the sister’s shop window, in solidarity with the people.

This is a wooden one that was carved and painted by our Dad in the 1990s.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/04/2022 14:59:32
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1874622
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

We’re fortunate to live in a country where symbols of alignment like this can be displayed without too much fear of retaliation.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/04/2022 15:00:21
From: Cymek
ID: 1874623
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


We’re fortunate to live in a country where symbols of alignment like this can be displayed without too much fear of retaliation.

Yeah some real holes around that people live in

Reply Quote

Date: 20/04/2022 15:03:04
From: Cymek
ID: 1874624
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Cymek said:


captain_spalding said:

We’re fortunate to live in a country where symbols of alignment like this can be displayed without too much fear of retaliation.

Yeah some real holes around that people live in

By that I meant, poor, lacking infrastructure, healthcare, etc and contend with repressive corrupt government and violence/war

Reply Quote

Date: 20/04/2022 15:05:53
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1874625
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Cymek said:


Cymek said:

captain_spalding said:

We’re fortunate to live in a country where symbols of alignment like this can be displayed without too much fear of retaliation.

Yeah some real holes around that people live in

By that I meant, poor, lacking infrastructure, healthcare, etc and contend with repressive corrupt government and violence/war

And with governments that, consciously or unconsciously, nurture divisions (some of them ancient and absurd) in their populations to serve as distractions from those same governments’ corruption and incompetence.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/04/2022 15:07:35
From: dv
ID: 1874626
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


Might as well put this here:

Ukrainian coat of arms in the sister’s shop window, in solidarity with the people.

This is a wooden one that was carved and painted by our Dad in the 1990s.


Well that’s nice

Reply Quote

Date: 20/04/2022 15:07:58
From: Cymek
ID: 1874627
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Cymek said:

Cymek said:

Yeah some real holes around that people live in

By that I meant, poor, lacking infrastructure, healthcare, etc and contend with repressive corrupt government and violence/war

And with governments that, consciously or unconsciously, nurture divisions (some of them ancient and absurd) in their populations to serve as distractions from those same governments’ corruption and incompetence.

Indeed, nothing much changes if people hold onto old hatreds

Reply Quote

Date: 20/04/2022 15:08:53
From: Cymek
ID: 1874628
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


Might as well put this here:

Ukrainian coat of arms in the sister’s shop window, in solidarity with the people.

This is a wooden one that was carved and painted by our Dad in the 1990s.


Unique Bono prints what are they, something to do with U2

Reply Quote

Date: 20/04/2022 15:10:39
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1874629
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Cymek said:


Bubblecar said:

Might as well put this here:

Ukrainian coat of arms in the sister’s shop window, in solidarity with the people.

This is a wooden one that was carved and painted by our Dad in the 1990s.


Unique Bono prints what are they, something to do with U2

Unique Hand Prints

That sign continues on the other side of the doors.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/04/2022 15:17:10
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1874630
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


Cymek said:

Bubblecar said:

Might as well put this here:

Ukrainian coat of arms in the sister’s shop window, in solidarity with the people.

This is a wooden one that was carved and painted by our Dad in the 1990s.


Unique Bono prints what are they, something to do with U2

Unique Hand Prints

That sign continues on the other side of the doors.

If you are not sure about the full hand prints, can you start off with just a finger print?

Reply Quote

Date: 20/04/2022 15:19:10
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1874631
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

The Rev Dodgson said:


Bubblecar said:

Cymek said:

Unique Bono prints what are they, something to do with U2

Unique Hand Prints

That sign continues on the other side of the doors.

If you are not sure about the full hand prints, can you start off with just a finger print?

Heh.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/04/2022 15:19:15
From: JudgeMental
ID: 1874632
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


We’re fortunate to live in a country where symbols of alignment like this can be displayed without too much fear of retaliation.

Just wait until you put a swastika flag up. boy to people get antsy.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/04/2022 15:25:47
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1874634
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

JudgeMental said:


captain_spalding said:

We’re fortunate to live in a country where symbols of alignment like this can be displayed without too much fear of retaliation.

Just wait until you put a swastika flag up. boy to people get antsy.

There are some alignments and sympathies that are very widely held to be,,,unsavoury.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/04/2022 16:06:16
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1874642
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


We’re fortunate to live in a country where symbols of alignment like this can be displayed without too much fear of retaliation.

Are you talking about Car’s sister’s Ukraine Shield or guide-dog lady?

Reply Quote

Date: 20/04/2022 16:59:03
From: dv
ID: 1874680
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

A Russian man using social media to educate people about the war in Ukraine said his mother disowned him for not supporting the invasion

 “Don’t send anything, I’ll just send it back. I don’t communicate with Russophobes and traitors to the Motherland. I sincerely wish that you give up your Russian passport and leave this country in any direction.”

https://olxpraca.com/a-russian-who-uses-social-media-to-inform-people-about-the-war-in-ukraine-said-his-mother-disowned-him-for-not-supporting-the-invasion/

It’s hard to imagine any circumstances in which I’d cut myself off from my kids willingly. It’s easier for me to believe she’s sending this because she has to, but maybe I’m kidding myself.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/04/2022 03:01:05
From: roughbarked
ID: 1874898
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Not since the aftermath of World War II had Wimbledon banned players from certain nations. Now players from Russia and Belarus join those from Japan and Germany in the 1940s in being banned.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/04/2022 03:21:58
From: roughbarked
ID: 1874899
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back


Amazing that Ukraine is srill operating a postal service.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/04/2022 06:11:36
From: Michael V
ID: 1874901
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

roughbarked said:



Amazing that Ukraine is still operating a postal service.

And that they have issued a new stamp entitled “Russian warship, go fuck yourself”. It shows the Mockba off Snake Island, and a Ukrainian soldier flipping the bird at the boat.

What have you ordered?

Reply Quote

Date: 21/04/2022 06:13:31
From: roughbarked
ID: 1874903
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Michael V said:


roughbarked said:


Amazing that Ukraine is still operating a postal service.

And that they have issued a new stamp entitled “Russian warship, go fuck yourself”. It shows the Mockba off Snake Island, and a Ukrainian soldier flipping the bird at the boat.

What have you ordered?

A watch.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/04/2022 06:15:51
From: roughbarked
ID: 1874905
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

roughbarked said:


Michael V said:

roughbarked said:


Amazing that Ukraine is still operating a postal service.

And that they have issued a new stamp entitled “Russian warship, go fuck yourself”. It shows the Mockba off Snake Island, and a Ukrainian soldier flipping the bird at the boat.

What have you ordered?

A watch.

I could make use of a Petzval lens. They are made in Ukraine.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/04/2022 06:18:48
From: Michael V
ID: 1874907
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

roughbarked said:


Michael V said:

roughbarked said:


Amazing that Ukraine is still operating a postal service.

And that they have issued a new stamp entitled “Russian warship, go fuck yourself”. It shows the Mockba off Snake Island, and a Ukrainian soldier flipping the bird at the boat.

What have you ordered?

A watch.

Why?

Reply Quote

Date: 21/04/2022 06:34:02
From: roughbarked
ID: 1874909
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Michael V said:


roughbarked said:

Michael V said:

And that they have issued a new stamp entitled “Russian warship, go fuck yourself”. It shows the Mockba off Snake Island, and a Ukrainian soldier flipping the bird at the boat.

What have you ordered?

A watch.

Why?

Parts.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/04/2022 08:43:35
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1874925
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

West sends Ukraine heavy weapons amid fighting in Donbas
By Amy Cheng and Claire Parker
Yesterday at 4:20 a.m. EDT|Updated today at 4:46 p.m. EDT

Western nations say they are dispatching more heavy weaponry and even aircraft to Ukraine as part of an effort to strengthen the country’s military as Russia steps up its attacks in the east.

The Pentagon said Wednesday that the Ukrainian air force has at least 20 more fighter jets available to them after an influx of parts in the last few weeks made repairs possible.

Ukraine has “been given whole helicopters, including helicopters from the United States,” a senior U.S. defense official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity under terms set by the Pentagon.

Last week, President Biden approved an $800 million aid package for Ukraine, dramatically expanding the scope of weapons Washington has sent to Kyiv. The package included 155 mm howitzers — a serious upgrade in long-range artillery to match Russian systems — 40,000 artillery rounds and 11 Soviet-designed Mi-17 helicopters.

The country’s stiff resistance to the Russian invasion so far — as well as Moscow’s pivot to the Donbas region in the east — has changed the calculus in Western countries that were initially reluctant to supply weaponry on which Ukrainian forces had not been trained, experts say.

“The war has changed because now the Russians have prioritized the Donbas area, and that’s a whole different level of fighting, a whole different type of fighting,” Pentagon press secretary John Kirby said Tuesday.

Analysts say that the battles in Donbas — an energy-rich region on Russia’s border — will probably be larger in scale than those that took place around the capital, Kyiv. Other Western nations have also promised more advanced weapons for Ukraine as the war has evolved.

German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock said Wednesday that her government has delivered antitank weapons and Stinger antiaircraft missiles to Kyiv, as well as “other things that we didn’t talk about in public so that the deliveries could be carried out quickly and securely.”

Britain this month also pledged a defense support package worth some $130 million that includes more antitank missiles, air defense systems and nonlethal equipment. Norway announced Wednesday that it had donated 100 Mistral short-range air defense missiles on top of the light anti-armor weapons it provided late last month.

“There’s a realization that could go on for a lot longer,” Amael Kotlarski, a senior analyst at open-source defense intelligence agency Janes. “If it goes on for longer, then potentially that gives other countries more room to maneuver when it comes to shipping more complex weapons systems and getting Ukraine trained on them.”

The Pentagon sent four more flights carrying weapons for Ukraine, including howitzers, and has launched training in a different country in the region for Ukrainian forces on how to use them, a senior U.S. defense official said Wednesday. The cannons are meant to counter Russian artillery.

Western leaders have insisted that they are sending equipment that is readily usable. But while some of the weapons and materiel are advanced, much of it also remains less sophisticated than the weapons in Russia’s arsenal.

Most of the weapons donated by the West “would not give the Ukrainian military the technological edge of the Russian military, but they will allow it to make up, at least temporarily, for the shortage of military supplies,” said Alexey Muraviev, a national security expert at Australia’s Curtin University.

Norway, for example, is phasing out the Mistrals from service, “but it is still a modern and effective weapon that will be of great benefit to Ukraine,” Norwegian Defense Minister Bjorn Arild Gram said in a statement.

“It’s a good way of sending aid that isn’t critical to your own defense needs,” Kotlarski said.

But Ukraine will probably require arms deliveries well into the future if it is to keep Russia at bay. And Western nations, especially in Europe, will need to balance between aiding Ukraine and maintaining their own defenses.

“There’s a question of how sustainable this is from a Western point of view, in the sense of how deep countries are willing to dig into their stocks and potentially compromise their own defense capabilities,” Kotlarski said.

The pool of munitions “isn’t huge” in Europe, he added, and it could take years to replenish existing stockpiles.

The Pentagon is discussing with American defense contractors whether steps may need to be taken to ensure sufficient production of the types of weapons the United States has sent to Ukraine.

“We certainly don’t want to get to a point where there is a readiness concern or where all of a sudden have a production issue that we weren’t tracking,” the senior defense official said.

According to Kotlarski, “The continuation of delivery of munitions, especially antitank weapons short-range air defense, is basically what’s keeping Ukraine in the fight.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/04/20/ukraine-russia-fighter-jets-weapons-war/?

Reply Quote

Date: 21/04/2022 09:47:50
From: dv
ID: 1874931
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-21/russia-and-japan-at-odds-over-ukraine-and-islands/100999154

Putin’s war in Ukraine opened a 76-year-old wound for Japan. This time, it isn’t willing to appease Russia

For most of World War II, Japan and the Soviet Union were not adversaries, signing a neutrality agreement in 1941.

But in August 1945, the Soviet Union saw an opportunity to attack a crippled and near-defeated Japan.

Moscow violated the neutrality pact and attacked Japanese positions, taking territory even after Tokyo announced its intention to surrender.

Four islands were seized and never returned: Etorofu, Kunashiri, Habomai and Shikotan.

“We were forced out,” Mr Yamamoto said.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/04/2022 09:51:03
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1874934
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-21/russia-and-japan-at-odds-over-ukraine-and-islands/100999154

Putin’s war in Ukraine opened a 76-year-old wound for Japan. This time, it isn’t willing to appease Russia

For most of World War II, Japan and the Soviet Union were not adversaries, signing a neutrality agreement in 1941.

But in August 1945, the Soviet Union saw an opportunity to attack a crippled and near-defeated Japan.

Moscow violated the neutrality pact and attacked Japanese positions, taking territory even after Tokyo announced its intention to surrender.

Four islands were seized and never returned: Etorofu, Kunashiri, Habomai and Shikotan.

“We were forced out,” Mr Yamamoto said.

Remember What People Have Been Saying About Dirty ASIAN Countries Threatening Disputed Pacific Islands

Reply Quote

Date: 21/04/2022 10:10:02
From: Cymek
ID: 1874947
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:

dv said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-21/russia-and-japan-at-odds-over-ukraine-and-islands/100999154

Putin’s war in Ukraine opened a 76-year-old wound for Japan. This time, it isn’t willing to appease Russia

For most of World War II, Japan and the Soviet Union were not adversaries, signing a neutrality agreement in 1941.

But in August 1945, the Soviet Union saw an opportunity to attack a crippled and near-defeated Japan.

Moscow violated the neutrality pact and attacked Japanese positions, taking territory even after Tokyo announced its intention to surrender.

Four islands were seized and never returned: Etorofu, Kunashiri, Habomai and Shikotan.

“We were forced out,” Mr Yamamoto said.

Remember What People Have Been Saying About Dirty ASIAN Countries Threatening Disputed Pacific Islands

China isn’t really doing anything most other nations haven’t done before, its just late to the party.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/04/2022 10:13:35
From: dv
ID: 1874952
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Wimbledon has banned players from Russia and Belarus.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/04/2022 11:31:15
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1874988
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Michael V said:


roughbarked said:


Amazing that Ukraine is still operating a postal service.

And that they have issued a new stamp entitled “Russian warship, go fuck yourself”. It shows the Mockba off Snake Island, and a Ukrainian soldier flipping the bird at the boat.

What have you ordered?

I have ordered a bunch of stamps, but my order is still being processed a week later. It took Al.ost a week to order in the first place with their internet the way it is, so I am happy to wait.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/04/2022 22:53:41
From: dv
ID: 1875360
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

CNN)Finance ministers from multiple nations walked out of a closed-door G20 session in Washington on Wednesday when the Russian delegate began his prepared remarks, a show of protest against Moscow for its invasion of Ukraine.

US Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen participated in the walkout, as did European and other Western officials who were participating in the meeting.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/04/20/politics/janet-yellen-g20-finance-ministerial-protest/index.html

Reply Quote

Date: 22/04/2022 01:57:07
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1875411
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

The questions regarding the status of the crew of the Moskva seem to have been answered:

“All the commanding officers were rescued and the conscript boys remained on the ship.” Russian families begin to grapple with the toll of the sinking of Cruiser Moskva. Meduza says 37 crew are confirmed dead, the number of missing is unknown.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/04/2022 06:11:01
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1875427
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Fighting has intensified in the Donbas region
Ukraine may find it harder to hold Russian forces back there

Apr 23rd 2022

“It can now be stated that Russian troops have begun the battle for Donbas,” pronounced Volodymyr Zelensky, Ukraine’s president, late on April 18th. More than three weeks have now passed since Vladimir Putin, Russia’s president, abandoned his assault on Kyiv and retreated from northern Ukraine. Now Mr Putin is throwing a large portion of his weary army at eastern Ukraine in the hope of salvaging something from his war. The coming weeks are likely to see the bloodiest battles since Russia first invaded the Donbas region in 2014.

The clashes that intensified on April 18th are “preludes to larger offensive operations”, according to American defence officials. They are probably a mixture of Russian reconnaissance, to establish the strength of Ukrainian defences, and shelling, to soften them up in advance of ground attacks that will follow. Oleksiy Danilov, the head of Ukraine’s security council, says that Russian attacks occurred “along almost the entire front line” in Donetsk, Luhansk and Kharkiv provinces, spanning around 400km in all.

Russia is beginning this offensive with a depleted army. American officials say that it retains only 75% of the combat power, across ground and air forces, that it had at the start of the war. Russia originally amassed 120 or so battalion tactical groups (btgs), formations of around 700 soldiers. Dozens of these are no longer battle-worthy after suffering heavy losses of men and equipment. The Pentagon reckons that there are 78 btgs in Ukraine presently; Ukrainian officials put the figure at 87. But a dozen or so are tied up battling pockets of resistance in Mariupol, a port city in the south-east. The remainder constitute a relatively modest force to throw against Ukraine’s most experienced and now well-equipped troops.

Notably, instead of amassing a large force and then striking, Russia has chosen to initiate the battle for Donbas even while it is still scraping together extra troops and equipment. Some American and European officials think that this curious decision may be guided by an arbitrary constraint: Mr Putin’s reported desire to see results by May 9th, Victory Day, on which Russia marks the end of the second world war in Europe. But this piecemeal and hasty commitment of forces seems sure to reduce their effectiveness.

A great deal depends on how quickly and ably General Alexander Dvornikov, the recently appointed commander of Russian operations in Ukraine, can move and concentrate his forces to overwhelm Ukrainian defenders in crucial areas. Russia is attacking south-east of Izyum, a strategic transport hub where it has around 25,000 troops and support staff, trying to head towards Slovyansk and Kramatorsk, so far without significant success. A senior Ukrainian officer told The Economist that Russian forces were still largely probing these positions, rather than launching a full-scale offensive. A big push will probably follow in the coming days.

Elsewhere along the front lines, there have been reports of some modest Russian gains. Ruslan Leviev of the Conflict Intelligence Team, an open-source investigative outlet, says that it has verified advances in Popasna, a small town in Luhansk province that has been on the front line since 2014. Russia now controls the city council building, he notes.

Ukrainian troops look vulnerable in a salient around Severodonetsk, a city about 80km from Luhansk, which is now under pressure from three sides. Russian forces have taken Kreminna, a small town to its north-west. Battles were also raging in Zaporizhia province, an industrial region immediately to the west of Donbas and to the north of Crimea.

Ukraine, not content with merely absorbing these blows, seems to have pre-emptively mounted counter-attacks. On April 17th Oleksiy Arestovych, an adviser to Mr Zelensky, described “an interesting movement around Izyum which should make any Russian attack difficult”, calling it “manoeuvring, active defence”. That appears to refer to Ukraine’s recapture of several villages south-east of Kharkiv.

A Ukrainian counter-attack could threaten the highway between Kharkiv and Izyum, potentially cutting Russia’s supply lines. “If Ukraine can obtain some level of firepower control over the roads, it would disrupt the operation and tie down significant Russian forces,” says Mykola Bielieskov of the National Institute for Strategic Studies, a Ukrainian think-tank.

The battle for Donbas may look very different from the first phase of the war, when Russian units were unprepared, poorly led and bogged down in suburban and urban warfare. The terrain in Donbas is more open, better suited to tanks and trickier for anti-tank teams, who need cover—although the mud created by heavy rains in recent days will present tanks with a different challenge. The armoured clashes that result may be some of the largest since the Arab-Israeli war of 1973, in which thousands of tanks were destroyed.

The most important factor will be Russia’s ability to fix the many problems that doomed its offensive on Kyiv: inadequate manpower, poor command and control, woeful tactics, shaky logistics and weak air power. Russia’s air force is stronger in Donbas than in the north, and it has been ramping up sorties in recent days. But it remains “terrified of flying over Ukrainian-held positions”, according to Western officials, because of the continued threat of surface-to-air missiles.

That will influence the intelligence contest, too. Ukraine, which is being fed lots of Western intelligence, says it has already downed a large number of Russia’s Orlan-10 reconnaissance drones in Donbas. The hostility of ordinary Ukrainians to the Russian invasion rules out most human reconnaissance missions. “It’s not army versus army in any normal sense,” says Mr Bielieskov. “It’s the Ukrainian nation against a military, and one with plenty of question marks.”

https://www.economist.com/europe/russia-begins-a-new-phase-of-its-war-in-ukraine/21808840?

Reply Quote

Date: 22/04/2022 09:05:04
From: roughbarked
ID: 1875447
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

https://www.ukrposhta.ua/en/news/57619-ukrposhta-issued-one-million-postage-stamps-russian-warship-fk-you

Reply Quote

Date: 22/04/2022 11:17:28
From: JudgeMental
ID: 1875513
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sPKSMeonxg

Link

“Unboxing” of Russian “Orlan”

funny and interesting.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/04/2022 12:48:27
From: dv
ID: 1875540
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Brazilian president puts records of Moscow trip under seal for five years

https://brazilian.report/liveblog/2022/04/20/five-year-bolsonaro-russia-trip/

Reply Quote

Date: 22/04/2022 12:51:54
From: Michael V
ID: 1875541
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


Brazilian president puts records of Moscow trip under seal for five years

https://brazilian.report/liveblog/2022/04/20/five-year-bolsonaro-russia-trip/

Nothing to see here…

Reply Quote

Date: 22/04/2022 12:59:56
From: Cymek
ID: 1875542
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Michael V said:


dv said:

Brazilian president puts records of Moscow trip under seal for five years

https://brazilian.report/liveblog/2022/04/20/five-year-bolsonaro-russia-trip/

Nothing to see here…

“Nenhum ditador Putin não conseguiu de mim nossa famosa cera de virilha brasileira”

Reply Quote

Date: 22/04/2022 13:13:28
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1875543
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


Brazilian president puts records of Moscow trip under seal for five years

They’ll be a bit wet and fishy smelling after five years under a seal.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/04/2022 18:59:04
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1875666
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

FWIW.

Azov Battalion – History & Symbols.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGdUtUefjCA

Reply Quote

Date: 22/04/2022 19:13:09
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1875678
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Spiny Norman said:


FWIW.

Azov Battalion – History & Symbols.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGdUtUefjCA

shudder.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/04/2022 19:18:19
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1875683
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

mollwollfumble said:

Spiny Norman said:

FWIW.

Azov Battalion – History & Symbols.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGdUtUefjCA

shudder.

so the idea is the Russian National Socialists stage a fight with the Ukrainian National Socialists and then whoever pretends to win, the National Socialists actually do win, we like this

Reply Quote

Date: 22/04/2022 22:02:19
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1875722
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Apparently the Russians have given up trying to defeat the last Ukrainian outposts in Mariupol after suffering huge losses, and have moved much of the remaining troops north to support the Donbas offensive.

Arestovych explained why Russians refused to go on storming Mariupol’s Azovstal plant

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SLH6qBMf4Q

Reply Quote

Date: 22/04/2022 22:04:27
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1875724
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:

Apparently the Russians have given up trying to defeat the last Ukrainian outposts in Mariupol after suffering huge losses, and have moved much of the remaining troops north to support the Donbas offensive.

Arestovych explained why Russians refused to go on storming Mariupol’s Azovstal plant

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SLH6qBMf4Q

you do have to wonder why they went to all that trouble to stage the diversions they did just to try to hold Donbas when they could have saved all that hardware slash money slash reputation

Reply Quote

Date: 22/04/2022 22:17:31
From: dv
ID: 1875733
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Russia has revealed that the goal of its invasion of Ukraine is to take “full control” over southern Ukraine as well as the eastern Donbas region.

The announcement by a top military official marks the first time Russia admitted it was fighting to establish a land corridor through Ukrainian territory connecting Russia to Crimea, the peninsula it annexed in 2014.

“Since the beginning of the second phase of the special operation, which began literally two days ago, one of the tasks of the Russian army is to establish full control over Donbas and southern Ukraine. This will provide a land corridor to Crimea,” Maj. Gen. Rustam Minnekaev, the acting commander of Russia’s Central Military District, said according to TASS, a Russian state news agency.

Minnekaev, speaking at the annual general meeting of the Union of Defense Industry Enterprises of the Sverdlovsk region, was quoted by TASS as saying the aim was to create a land corridor between Ukraine’s eastern Donbas region and Crimea.

He added that control over Ukraine’s south would give Russian forces access to Transnistria, a separatist statelet in Moldova, where a contingent of Russian forces has been stationed since the early 1990s.

Russian forces at present have only partial control of southern Ukraine, with the Ukrainian government still in control of the key cities of Mykolaiv and Odesa and some Ukrainian forces holding out in a steel plant in the encircled port of Mariupol.

Russia in recent weeks withdrew its forces in northern Ukraine after a failure to take Kyiv, with Russian military officials claiming that their strategic goals had shifted to taking all of the eastern Donbas region.

Asked by reporters Friday to elaborate on what territories were meant by southern Ukraine, Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov declined to comment and referred questions to the Ministry of Defense.

Ukrainian authorities have warned in recent days that Russian forces occupying the southern Ukrainian city of Kherson were planning to stage a sham referendum declaring a so-called “Kherson People’s Republic” in the coming days, mirroring the Russian-backed creation of separatist republics in Donbas in 2014 that set the stage for Russia’s invasion on February 24.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/04/2022 22:21:17
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1875735
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


Russia has revealed that the goal of its invasion of Ukraine is to take “full control” over southern Ukraine as well as the eastern Donbas region.

The announcement by a top military official marks the first time Russia admitted it was fighting to establish a land corridor through Ukrainian territory connecting Russia to Crimea, the peninsula it annexed in 2014.

“Since the beginning of the second phase of the special operation, which began literally two days ago, one of the tasks of the Russian army is to establish full control over Donbas and southern Ukraine. This will provide a land corridor to Crimea,” Maj. Gen. Rustam Minnekaev, the acting commander of Russia’s Central Military District, said according to TASS, a Russian state news agency.

Minnekaev, speaking at the annual general meeting of the Union of Defense Industry Enterprises of the Sverdlovsk region, was quoted by TASS as saying the aim was to create a land corridor between Ukraine’s eastern Donbas region and Crimea.

He added that control over Ukraine’s south would give Russian forces access to Transnistria, a separatist statelet in Moldova, where a contingent of Russian forces has been stationed since the early 1990s.

Russian forces at present have only partial control of southern Ukraine, with the Ukrainian government still in control of the key cities of Mykolaiv and Odesa and some Ukrainian forces holding out in a steel plant in the encircled port of Mariupol.

Russia in recent weeks withdrew its forces in northern Ukraine after a failure to take Kyiv, with Russian military officials claiming that their strategic goals had shifted to taking all of the eastern Donbas region.

Asked by reporters Friday to elaborate on what territories were meant by southern Ukraine, Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov declined to comment and referred questions to the Ministry of Defense.

Ukrainian authorities have warned in recent days that Russian forces occupying the southern Ukrainian city of Kherson were planning to stage a sham referendum declaring a so-called “Kherson People’s Republic” in the coming days, mirroring the Russian-backed creation of separatist republics in Donbas in 2014 that set the stage for Russia’s invasion on February 24.

Putin is confident that the rest of the world realises a referendum staged by an invading fascist army upholds all the necessary principles of freedom, democracy and due respect for human rights.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/04/2022 22:24:08
From: sibeen
ID: 1875737
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

It’s fairly fucking surreal in parts of Melbourne. Suburbs and streets that were named after a war that was fought a 170 years ago suddenly becoming the talk of the town. Elder sprog’s boyfriend lives in the suburb of Balaclava.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/04/2022 22:35:25
From: party_pants
ID: 1875744
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


Russia has revealed that the goal of its invasion of Ukraine is to take “full control” over southern Ukraine as well as the eastern Donbas region.

The announcement by a top military official marks the first time Russia admitted it was fighting to establish a land corridor through Ukrainian territory connecting Russia to Crimea, the peninsula it annexed in 2014.

“Since the beginning of the second phase of the special operation, which began literally two days ago, one of the tasks of the Russian army is to establish full control over Donbas and southern Ukraine. This will provide a land corridor to Crimea,” Maj. Gen. Rustam Minnekaev, the acting commander of Russia’s Central Military District, said according to TASS, a Russian state news agency.

Minnekaev, speaking at the annual general meeting of the Union of Defense Industry Enterprises of the Sverdlovsk region, was quoted by TASS as saying the aim was to create a land corridor between Ukraine’s eastern Donbas region and Crimea.

He added that control over Ukraine’s south would give Russian forces access to Transnistria, a separatist statelet in Moldova, where a contingent of Russian forces has been stationed since the early 1990s.

Russian forces at present have only partial control of southern Ukraine, with the Ukrainian government still in control of the key cities of Mykolaiv and Odesa and some Ukrainian forces holding out in a steel plant in the encircled port of Mariupol.

Russia in recent weeks withdrew its forces in northern Ukraine after a failure to take Kyiv, with Russian military officials claiming that their strategic goals had shifted to taking all of the eastern Donbas region.

Asked by reporters Friday to elaborate on what territories were meant by southern Ukraine, Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov declined to comment and referred questions to the Ministry of Defense.

Ukrainian authorities have warned in recent days that Russian forces occupying the southern Ukrainian city of Kherson were planning to stage a sham referendum declaring a so-called “Kherson People’s Republic” in the coming days, mirroring the Russian-backed creation of separatist republics in Donbas in 2014 that set the stage for Russia’s invasion on February 24.

The aim should still be to destroy Russia with the sanctions.

If they don’t consider themselves to be part of the modern generic European civilisation they should be excluded and made to suffer for their isolation. Fuck them and the old rusty odd-gauge locomotive they rode in on.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/04/2022 22:40:03
From: dv
ID: 1875751
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

I’m a little surprised they were quite open on their aim to extend the “land bridge” to Transnistria, directly bringing another country into the conflict.

It’s really hard to get a sense of how things are going. The appear to have captured key towns in Luhansk but seem to be basically fought to a standstill in Mariupol. The Ukrainians have received a lot of antitank weapons in the last few weeks but I don’t know whether those have made it to the front yet.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/04/2022 22:59:12
From: diddly-squat
ID: 1875764
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

I think once both sides dig in it’s going to move towards a stalemate pretty quickly and there won’t be too much either side will be able to do, to either reclaim or take more ground.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/04/2022 23:02:03
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1875767
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


I’m a little surprised they were quite open on their aim to extend the “land bridge” to Transnistria, directly bringing another country into the conflict.

It’s really hard to get a sense of how things are going. The appear to have captured key towns in Luhansk but seem to be basically fought to a standstill in Mariupol. The Ukrainians have received a lot of antitank weapons in the last few weeks but I don’t know whether those have made it to the front yet.

I’m supposing they have enough forces to achieve these stated objectives, with many losses.

But what the point of it all will then be is anyone’s guess, having to defend that territory from indefinitely ongoing counter raids, while none of the rest of the world that matters will recognise these thefts of Ukrainian territory, and the sanctions continue and likely harden with more evidence of atrocities.

Do the Russians have it in them to discard their disgusting dictator and his minions? Doesn’t seem like it. Surprisingly pathetic people, with some exceptions.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/04/2022 23:05:53
From: dv
ID: 1875768
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

diddly-squat said:


I think once both sides dig in it’s going to move towards a stalemate pretty quickly and there won’t be too much either side will be able to do, to either reclaim or take more ground.

I suppose all I can hope is that Russia will eventually run out of money and ammo and the West won’t let that happen to Ukraine.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/04/2022 23:06:19
From: diddly-squat
ID: 1875769
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


dv said:

I’m a little surprised they were quite open on their aim to extend the “land bridge” to Transnistria, directly bringing another country into the conflict.

It’s really hard to get a sense of how things are going. The appear to have captured key towns in Luhansk but seem to be basically fought to a standstill in Mariupol. The Ukrainians have received a lot of antitank weapons in the last few weeks but I don’t know whether those have made it to the front yet.

I’m supposing they have enough forces to achieve these stated objectives, with many losses.

But what the point of it all will then be is anyone’s guess, having to defend that territory from indefinitely ongoing counter raids, while none of the rest of the world that matters will recognise these thefts of Ukrainian territory, and the sanctions continue and likely harden with more evidence of atrocities.

Do the Russians have it in them to discard their disgusting dictator and his minions? Doesn’t seem like it. Surprisingly pathetic people, with some exceptions.

Russia having control of the entire south would effectively make Ukraine a land locked nation and cut off key trade routes.. seem like it’s as much a case of sour grapes as anything else

Reply Quote

Date: 22/04/2022 23:09:05
From: dv
ID: 1875770
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Reply Quote

Date: 22/04/2022 23:11:05
From: dv
ID: 1875771
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

diddly-squat said:


Bubblecar said:

dv said:

I’m a little surprised they were quite open on their aim to extend the “land bridge” to Transnistria, directly bringing another country into the conflict.

It’s really hard to get a sense of how things are going. The appear to have captured key towns in Luhansk but seem to be basically fought to a standstill in Mariupol. The Ukrainians have received a lot of antitank weapons in the last few weeks but I don’t know whether those have made it to the front yet.

I’m supposing they have enough forces to achieve these stated objectives, with many losses.

But what the point of it all will then be is anyone’s guess, having to defend that territory from indefinitely ongoing counter raids, while none of the rest of the world that matters will recognise these thefts of Ukrainian territory, and the sanctions continue and likely harden with more evidence of atrocities.

Do the Russians have it in them to discard their disgusting dictator and his minions? Doesn’t seem like it. Surprisingly pathetic people, with some exceptions.

Russia having control of the entire south would effectively make Ukraine a land locked nation and cut off key trade routes.. seem like it’s as much a case of sour grapes as anything else

Russia will finally have all these trade routes and no one to trade with… cue Twilight Zone outro voiceover.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/04/2022 23:11:36
From: diddly-squat
ID: 1875772
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


diddly-squat said:

I think once both sides dig in it’s going to move towards a stalemate pretty quickly and there won’t be too much either side will be able to do, to either reclaim or take more ground.

I suppose all I can hope is that Russia will eventually run out of money and ammo and the West won’t let that happen to Ukraine.

I don’t think that will happen – insomuch as I don’t think Russia will run out of money or ammo.. regime change currently seems to be the best hope for Ukraine.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/04/2022 23:25:20
From: Kingy
ID: 1875778
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

diddly-squat said:


I think once both sides dig in it’s going to move towards a stalemate pretty quickly and there won’t be too much either side will be able to do, to either reclaim or take more ground.

The switchblade drones are likely to move the frontlines closer to mother russia.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/04/2022 23:30:54
From: diddly-squat
ID: 1875781
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Kingy said:


diddly-squat said:

I think once both sides dig in it’s going to move towards a stalemate pretty quickly and there won’t be too much either side will be able to do, to either reclaim or take more ground.

The switchblade drones are likely to move the frontlines closer to mother russia.

it’s going to be actual trench warfare … the drones will help with armour but taking back land is going be really difficult for Ukraine

Reply Quote

Date: 22/04/2022 23:30:56
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1875782
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

“In a now deleted VK post, the pro-Kremlin media outlet Readovka claims that Russia’s Defense Ministry stated at a “closed briefing” that it’s lost 13,414 soldiers in Ukraine plus another 7,000 who are missing. 116 sailors killed aboard the Moskva, with 100+ still missing.”

This lines up pretty closely to the Ukrainian tally of 21,200

Reply Quote

Date: 22/04/2022 23:32:14
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1875783
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

diddly-squat said:


Bubblecar said:

dv said:

I’m a little surprised they were quite open on their aim to extend the “land bridge” to Transnistria, directly bringing another country into the conflict.

It’s really hard to get a sense of how things are going. The appear to have captured key towns in Luhansk but seem to be basically fought to a standstill in Mariupol. The Ukrainians have received a lot of antitank weapons in the last few weeks but I don’t know whether those have made it to the front yet.

I’m supposing they have enough forces to achieve these stated objectives, with many losses.

But what the point of it all will then be is anyone’s guess, having to defend that territory from indefinitely ongoing counter raids, while none of the rest of the world that matters will recognise these thefts of Ukrainian territory, and the sanctions continue and likely harden with more evidence of atrocities.

Do the Russians have it in them to discard their disgusting dictator and his minions? Doesn’t seem like it. Surprisingly pathetic people, with some exceptions.

Russia having control of the entire south would effectively make Ukraine a land locked nation and cut off key trade routes.. seem like it’s as much a case of sour grapes as anything else

That certainly appears to be the goal.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/04/2022 23:32:15
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1875784
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

diddly-squat said:


Bubblecar said:

dv said:

I’m a little surprised they were quite open on their aim to extend the “land bridge” to Transnistria, directly bringing another country into the conflict.

It’s really hard to get a sense of how things are going. The appear to have captured key towns in Luhansk but seem to be basically fought to a standstill in Mariupol. The Ukrainians have received a lot of antitank weapons in the last few weeks but I don’t know whether those have made it to the front yet.

I’m supposing they have enough forces to achieve these stated objectives, with many losses.

But what the point of it all will then be is anyone’s guess, having to defend that territory from indefinitely ongoing counter raids, while none of the rest of the world that matters will recognise these thefts of Ukrainian territory, and the sanctions continue and likely harden with more evidence of atrocities.

Do the Russians have it in them to discard their disgusting dictator and his minions? Doesn’t seem like it. Surprisingly pathetic people, with some exceptions.

Russia having control of the entire south would effectively make Ukraine a land locked nation and cut off key trade routes.. seem like it’s as much a case of sour grapes as anything else

That certainly appears to be the goal.

Reply Quote

Date: 23/04/2022 00:18:05
From: dv
ID: 1875792
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:

“In a now deleted VK post, the pro-Kremlin media outlet Readovka claims that Russia’s Defense Ministry stated at a “closed briefing” that it’s lost 13,414 soldiers in Ukraine plus another 7,000 who are missing. 116 sailors killed aboard the Moskva, with 100+ still missing.”

This lines up pretty closely to the Ukrainian tally of 21,200

It’s more than the Russians lost during the ten years of the Soviet-Afghan war.

Reply Quote

Date: 23/04/2022 03:08:14
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1875821
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Besides the long-range Switchblade 600 non-return flying bomb/drone with long range capabilities (what is now needed in the flat open country), America has just released to the Ukrainians a new drone system especially designed for them. Apparently it can take out tanks and personal, and was made to suit the combat conditions of the east and southern parts of Ukraine. The manufacturers are usually engaged designing weapons for the special operations services, so are used to designing highly effective weapons. The Ukrainians are also getting long range heavy artillery pieces (Howitzers) designed to be quickly towed away to avoid retaliatory shelling. So not all going Russia’s way.

Reply Quote

Date: 23/04/2022 09:40:50
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1875851
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Russians just broke the Tank Turret Tossing world record with an amazing lob into a 5th story apartment block in Mariupol.

https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1517245843811749892

Reply Quote

Date: 23/04/2022 15:18:37
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1876033
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

“Ukrainian presidential advisor Aleksey Arestovich reported that Ukraine’s defense forces destroyed the Russian command post in the Kherson region, in which there were about 50 military officers.”

It seems that the Kherson region is the epicentre of Ukraine’s demiliterisation of Russia.

All jokes aside though, this would be a pretty major loss to Russia if true.

Reply Quote

Date: 23/04/2022 21:48:46
From: dv
ID: 1876252
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

https://youtu.be/IpIWswLYAbA
“Who’s winning?”

Reply Quote

Date: 23/04/2022 22:41:08
From: dv
ID: 1876276
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

TIL Donbas is a portmanteau of Donets Basin

Reply Quote

Date: 23/04/2022 22:59:04
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1876277
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:

TIL Donbas is a portmanteau of Donets Basin

so Luhansk are second rate parts of it

Reply Quote

Date: 23/04/2022 23:04:18
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1876279
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Fond the perfect soundtrack to the Russian invasion of Ukraine:

https://soundcloud.com/cheetahrock63/yakety-sax-minor-key

Reply Quote

Date: 24/04/2022 00:04:21
From: dv
ID: 1876284
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

https://www.unilad.co.uk/news/two-russian-oligarchs-and-their-families-found-dead-one-day-apart-20220422

Reply Quote

Date: 24/04/2022 02:35:14
From: dv
ID: 1876314
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

“Swedish opinion in favour of Nato is increasing because they believe it will be done together with Finland and (people) are then more positive to a Swedish membership,” Novus chief executive Torbjorn Sjostrom said in a statement.

If Finland were to join the alliance, 64 percent of Swedes questioned said they were in favour of joining.

Swedish Foreign Minister Ann Linde said Thursday she wanted to speed up the completion of parliament’s security policy analysis that is meant to guide MP’s discussions.

https://www.thelocal.se/20220422/majority-of-swedes-now-in-favour-of-joining-nato-poll/

Reply Quote

Date: 24/04/2022 07:32:15
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1876331
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


“Swedish opinion in favour of Nato is increasing because they believe it will be done together with Finland and (people) are then more positive to a Swedish membership,” Novus chief executive Torbjorn Sjostrom said in a statement.

If Finland were to join the alliance, 64 percent of Swedes questioned said they were in favour of joining.

Swedish Foreign Minister Ann Linde said Thursday she wanted to speed up the completion of parliament’s security policy analysis that is meant to guide MP’s discussions.

https://www.thelocal.se/20220422/majority-of-swedes-now-in-favour-of-joining-nato-poll/

Now wait for Russia to start staking claims to territory in Finland.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/04/2022 07:48:21
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1876334
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:

“Ukrainian presidential advisor Aleksey Arestovich reported that Ukraine’s defense forces destroyed the Russian command post in the Kherson region, in which there were about 50 military officers.”

It seems that the Kherson region is the epicentre of Ukraine’s demiliterisation of Russia.

All jokes aside though, this would be a pretty major loss to Russia if true.

Reports that two Russian generals were killed and a third injured in the Kherson command post attack. That brings the total number of Russian generals killed to nine. All in two months.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/04/2022 09:01:54
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1876351
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:


Dark Orange said:

“Ukrainian presidential advisor Aleksey Arestovich reported that Ukraine’s defense forces destroyed the Russian command post in the Kherson region, in which there were about 50 military officers.”

It seems that the Kherson region is the epicentre of Ukraine’s demiliterisation of Russia.

All jokes aside though, this would be a pretty major loss to Russia if true.

Reports that two Russian generals were killed and a third injured in the Kherson command post attack. That brings the total number of Russian generals killed to nine. All in two months.

The traditional Thursday night toast among officers in RN/RAN/RNZN wardrooms, dating back to the 17th or 18th century, is ‘to bloody war and quick promotion’.

It seems that the Russians are making it come true.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/04/2022 13:52:47
From: roughbarked
ID: 1876414
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

There’s one way to stop Pootin

Stephen Fry.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/04/2022 15:32:37
From: roughbarked
ID: 1876451
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Europe’s big lie about Ukraine ~ Stephen Fry

Reply Quote

Date: 24/04/2022 16:31:46
From: dv
ID: 1876464
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

roughbarked said:


There’s one way to stop Pootin

Stephen Fry.

I do love Fry but I think he’s way too pessimistic about the prospects of victory.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/04/2022 17:02:41
From: dv
ID: 1876470
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

https://youtu.be/gyk12Wf_TeQ

How the UK rolled out the red carpet for dirty Russian money

Reply Quote

Date: 24/04/2022 17:44:11
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1876480
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


roughbarked said:

There’s one way to stop Pootin

Stephen Fry.

I do love Fry but I think he’s way too pessimistic about the prospects of victory.

As long as Putin controls the (dis)information in Russia, and as long as the money keeps rolling in, he can continue to prosecute the war. Stephen is right about that.

What would hurt the Russian fighting ability is the loss of key people.

Things like the reported losses of senior officers in the strike on Russian headquarters. This disrupts command temporarily, and can lead to changes in strategy as replacement commanders move in. And some of those commanders may not yet possess the skills and experience to do the job right.

The loss of experienced and/or skilled troops is possibly a big disruptor, too. Russia is not going to run out of tanks any time soon. They have literally thousands of them in reserve. Sure, a lot may be old T-64s, T62s, and even T-55s, but they can be made ready.

What’s not so easily or quickly replaced are properly trained and co-ordinated tank crews. You can just stick four soldiers in a tank, and say ‘you’re now a crew’, but no-one (including the four soldiers) will be under any illusions that they’ll achieve much, or live long.

The same goes for helicopter and fighter pilots, specialised infantry, technical operators, etc. etc.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/04/2022 17:46:20
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1876481
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


roughbarked said:

There’s one way to stop Pootin

Stephen Fry.

I do love Fry but I think he’s way too pessimistic about the prospects of victory.

If I was more together I would be prepping. As it is i’ll just curl up despondently in the corner.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/04/2022 17:50:42
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1876482
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


dv said:

roughbarked said:

There’s one way to stop Pootin

Stephen Fry.

I do love Fry but I think he’s way too pessimistic about the prospects of victory.

As long as Putin controls the (dis)information in Russia, and as long as the money keeps rolling in, he can continue to prosecute the war. Stephen is right about that.

What would hurt the Russian fighting ability is the loss of key people.

Things like the reported losses of senior officers in the strike on Russian headquarters. This disrupts command temporarily, and can lead to changes in strategy as replacement commanders move in. And some of those commanders may not yet possess the skills and experience to do the job right.

The loss of experienced and/or skilled troops is possibly a big disruptor, too. Russia is not going to run out of tanks any time soon. They have literally thousands of them in reserve. Sure, a lot may be old T-64s, T62s, and even T-55s, but they can be made ready.

What’s not so easily or quickly replaced are properly trained and co-ordinated tank crews. You can just stick four soldiers in a tank, and say ‘you’re now a crew’, but no-one (including the four soldiers) will be under any illusions that they’ll achieve much, or live long.

The same goes for helicopter and fighter pilots, specialised infantry, technical operators, etc. etc.

Any crew in a Russian tank would unlikely be volunteers.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/04/2022 17:53:48
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1876485
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:

Any crew in a Russian tank would unlikely be volunteers.

You don’t get a choice about a lot of things in any military service.

The question is, once you’ve been put in a job, will you at least be taught how to do it properly?

Knowing what to do, and what not to do, can be a matter of your life or your death. And it takes time to learn those things.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/04/2022 18:02:30
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1876488
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


PermeateFree said:

Any crew in a Russian tank would unlikely be volunteers.

You don’t get a choice about a lot of things in any military service.

The question is, once you’ve been put in a job, will you at least be taught how to do it properly?

Knowing what to do, and what not to do, can be a matter of your life or your death. And it takes time to learn those things.

With modern weapons, tanks now seem to be obsolete, or at least until they improve their defenses. Same thing might be the case with warships competing with new satellite and missile technology. Not sure if a military career is as attractive to young men and women as it once was.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/04/2022 18:07:31
From: Kingy
ID: 1876490
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:

Not sure if a military career is as attractive to young men and women as it once was.

It never was. Young men in a shitty home situation get given a spiel about how they can go adventuring around the world with shiny big toys, get medals and be paid for it. They’ll choose the greener grass. No mention of hard slog, slow and painful/instant death. Especially no mention of pootin leaving their bodies to rot after use.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/04/2022 18:31:06
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1876493
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Kingy said:


PermeateFree said:
Not sure if a military career is as attractive to young men and women as it once was.

It never was. Young men in a shitty home situation get given a spiel about how they can go adventuring around the world with shiny big toys, get medals and be paid for it. They’ll choose the greener grass. No mention of hard slog, slow and painful/instant death. Especially no mention of pootin leaving their bodies to rot after use.

We’re not all as dumb as that.

In my day, it was The Bet, the Big Gamble.

You get the pay, the travel, the training, and you do get to play with the toys.

You do have to put up with a certain amount of bullshit, but that’s no different to civilian life.

All the while, you hope that our elected leaders aren’t so stupid as to get into a shooting war.

Pretty much all of us knew that we were taking that chance.

Mostly you got away with it.

After 11 Sep 2001…meh…

Reply Quote

Date: 25/04/2022 00:22:03
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1876755
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

“The Russian Defense Ministry reported that since the start of a full-scale invasion, 951,000 Ukrainians had been forcibly deported to Russia from occupied Ukrainian territories. This number includes 174,689 children.”

:(

Reply Quote

Date: 25/04/2022 00:24:05
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1876757
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:

“The Russian Defense Ministry reported that since the start of a full-scale invasion, 951,000 Ukrainians had been forcibly deported to Russia from occupied Ukrainian territories. This number includes 174,689 children.”

:(

They’re really wanting the whole world against them for generations, it seems.

Reply Quote

Date: 25/04/2022 00:28:42
From: party_pants
ID: 1876759
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:

“The Russian Defense Ministry reported that since the start of a full-scale invasion, 951,000 Ukrainians had been forcibly deported to Russia from occupied Ukrainian territories. This number includes 174,689 children.”

:(

Russia must be destroyed. There is no other way now.

Destroyed, collapsed, broken apart into smaller chunks.

Reply Quote

Date: 25/04/2022 00:42:09
From: furious
ID: 1876762
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

party_pants said:


Dark Orange said:

“The Russian Defense Ministry reported that since the start of a full-scale invasion, 951,000 Ukrainians had been forcibly deported to Russia from occupied Ukrainian territories. This number includes 174,689 children.”

:(

Russia must be destroyed. There is no other way now.

Destroyed, collapsed, broken apart into smaller chunks.

True, but, how do you achieve that without full scale nuclear war?

Reply Quote

Date: 25/04/2022 00:44:40
From: transition
ID: 1876763
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:

“The Russian Defense Ministry reported that since the start of a full-scale invasion, 951,000 Ukrainians had been forcibly deported to Russia from occupied Ukrainian territories. This number includes 174,689 children.”

:(

i’d need see that from a reliable source in russia, and then I might consider further about what forcibly deported means, where those words came from

Reply Quote

Date: 25/04/2022 00:46:23
From: furious
ID: 1876764
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

transition said:


Dark Orange said:

“The Russian Defense Ministry reported that since the start of a full-scale invasion, 951,000 Ukrainians had been forcibly deported to Russia from occupied Ukrainian territories. This number includes 174,689 children.”

:(

i’d need see that from a reliable source in russia, and then I might consider further about what forcibly deported means, where those words came from

Yeah, good luck with that…

Reply Quote

Date: 25/04/2022 00:53:39
From: transition
ID: 1876765
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

furious said:


transition said:

Dark Orange said:

“The Russian Defense Ministry reported that since the start of a full-scale invasion, 951,000 Ukrainians had been forcibly deported to Russia from occupied Ukrainian territories. This number includes 174,689 children.”

:(

i’d need see that from a reliable source in russia, and then I might consider further about what forcibly deported means, where those words came from

  • i’d need see that from a reliable source in russia

Yeah, good luck with that…

it does say russian defense ministry reported

the source should be available on the internet i’d guess, if it were so

Reply Quote

Date: 25/04/2022 01:03:06
From: dv
ID: 1876766
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

transition said:


furious said:

transition said:

i’d need see that from a reliable source in russia, and then I might consider further about what forcibly deported means, where those words came from

  • i’d need see that from a reliable source in russia

Yeah, good luck with that…

it does say russian defense ministry reported

the source should be available on the internet i’d guess, if it were so

What would I know, but this seems an absurd claim. They are struggling to move thousands of troops in and out.

Reply Quote

Date: 25/04/2022 01:05:36
From: transition
ID: 1876767
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


transition said:

furious said:

  • i’d need see that from a reliable source in russia

Yeah, good luck with that…

it does say russian defense ministry reported

the source should be available on the internet i’d guess, if it were so

What would I know, but this seems an absurd claim. They are struggling to move thousands of troops in and out.

I mean it is possible, but my initial impression is that the russian defense ministry, if such a thing by that name exists, doubtful would say something like that using those words

Reply Quote

Date: 25/04/2022 08:04:27
From: Michael V
ID: 1876788
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


transition said:

furious said:

  • i’d need see that from a reliable source in russia

Yeah, good luck with that…

it does say russian defense ministry reported

the source should be available on the internet i’d guess, if it were so

What would I know, but this seems an absurd claim. They are struggling to move thousands of troops in and out.

The headline was published April 24 here:

https://kyivindependent.com/uncategorized/police-269-people-killed-by-russian-military-in-irpin/

They give, as their reference:

https://www.interfax.ru/russia/837576

I haven’t been able to access that site.

Reply Quote

Date: 25/04/2022 08:19:24
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1876789
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

furious said:


party_pants said:

Dark Orange said:

“The Russian Defense Ministry reported that since the start of a full-scale invasion, 951,000 Ukrainians had been forcibly deported to Russia from occupied Ukrainian territories. This number includes 174,689 children.”

:(

Russia must be destroyed. There is no other way now.

Destroyed, collapsed, broken apart into smaller chunks.

True, but, how do you achieve that without full scale nuclear war?

Continue with the current demiliterisation?

Reply Quote

Date: 25/04/2022 09:43:40
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1876822
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/04/23/ukraine-belarus-railway-saboteurs-russia/

during World War II, when Belarusians opposed to the Nazi occupation blew up railway lines and train stations to disrupt German supply lines. The Rail War, as it is known, is venerated as a moment of triumph for Belarus, taught in schools as the most successful of the tactics deployed by resistance fighters that eased the way for Soviet troops to drive the Germans out.

This second Rail War has taken a more benign form than its predecessor. The partisans were keen not to inflict casualties, Ravavoi said. So they focused their attacks on damaging equipment to stop the railways from functioning.

Three main groups have been involved, representing railway workers, security force defectors and cyber specialists, said Lt. Col Alexander Azarov, a former security official living in Warsaw who heads the security force group called Bypol.

Railway employees sympathetic to the partisans have leaked details of Russian movements and the locations of key railway infrastructure to a group called the Community of Railway Workers, which shares them on Telegram channels. Supporters on the ground link up to carry out the attacks, but there is no formal chain of command, Azarov said.

“Our movement is not centralized,” he said. “It’s not like there’s a leader of the resistance. It’s horizontal, with dozens of groups working on the ground.”

Starting on Feb. 26, two days after the invasion began, a succession of five sabotage attacks against signaling cabinets brought train traffic to an almost complete halt, said Sergey Voitekhovich, a former railway employee now based in Poland who is a leader in the Community of Railway Workers.

By Feb. 28, satellite photographs began to appear of the 40-mile convoy of Russian trucks and tanks ostensibly headed from Belarus toward Kyiv. Within a week, the convoy had completely stalled as vehicles ran out of fuel or broke down.

Reply Quote

Date: 25/04/2022 13:38:22
From: Kingy
ID: 1876930
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Two separate large fires in oil depot/refineries about 50km inside Russia.

Twitter video link

Twitter video link 2

Reply Quote

Date: 25/04/2022 13:48:14
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1876938
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Kingy said:


Two separate large fires in oil depot/refineries about 50km inside Russia.

Twitter video link

Twitter video link 2

Them crazy Ukrainians are up to their shenanigans again.

Reply Quote

Date: 25/04/2022 13:52:05
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1876940
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:


Kingy said:

Two separate large fires in oil depot/refineries about 50km inside Russia.

Twitter video link

Twitter video link 2

Them crazy Ukrainians are up to their shenanigans again.

“See?”, says Russia, “just because we invaded their country, blasted shit out of their cities, looted everything in site, murdered thousands of civilians, and deported thousands more, these Ukrainians seem to think that they have a right to attack property inside Russia! How can we be expected to reason with people like that?!”

Reply Quote

Date: 26/04/2022 00:42:04
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1877128
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Half hour report from Ukraine’s UATV.

I’ll watch it all later but the gist so far is that Ukraine is still confident of victory, given the right assistance.

Weekly progress: what is the Ukraine’s Army short of to win?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCf1QOu-l0c&t=86s

Reply Quote

Date: 26/04/2022 04:37:28
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1877136
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

The USA to send another frikkin’ 0.7 billion dollars of weapons to Ukraine.

Is somebody adding this up?

Reply Quote

Date: 26/04/2022 06:05:00
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1877140
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

mollwollfumble said:


The USA to send another frikkin’ 0.7 billion dollars of weapons to Ukraine.

Is somebody adding this up?

Was anyone adding it up when the US supplied Australia with planes and tanks in WW2? Probably.

Were we glad to get those things? Yes.

Did we need them? Definitely.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/04/2022 07:56:14
From: Michael V
ID: 1877153
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


mollwollfumble said:

The USA to send another frikkin’ 0.7 billion dollars of weapons to Ukraine.

Is somebody adding this up?

Was anyone adding it up when the US supplied Australia with planes and tanks in WW2? Probably.

Were we glad to get those things? Yes.

Did we need them? Definitely.

They sure were adding it up. Lend-lease. It made the US a motza.

The US set up a similar deal with Ukraine in the early part of Russia’s invasion.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/04/2022 10:22:24
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1877208
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

ABC News:

“Russia’s Foreign Minister says NATO support of Ukraine amounts to a proxy war
By Michael Doyle
Russia says NATO is “in essence engaged in war with Russia” as it continues to support Ukraine with weaponry.”

Well, derrr…

Reply Quote

Date: 26/04/2022 10:24:38
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1877209
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Michael V said:


captain_spalding said:

mollwollfumble said:

The USA to send another frikkin’ 0.7 billion dollars of weapons to Ukraine.

Is somebody adding this up?

Was anyone adding it up when the US supplied Australia with planes and tanks in WW2? Probably.

Were we glad to get those things? Yes.

Did we need them? Definitely.

They sure were adding it up. Lend-lease. It made the US a motza.

The US set up a similar deal with Ukraine in the early part of Russia’s invasion.

The US never got back more than a small fraction of the value of support and supply that it provided in WW2.

Certainly not a penny from the largest recipient, the Soviet Union.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/04/2022 10:30:24
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1877210
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Michael V said:

captain_spalding said:

Was anyone adding it up when the US supplied Australia with planes and tanks in WW2? Probably.

Were we glad to get those things? Yes.

Did we need them? Definitely.

They sure were adding it up. Lend-lease. It made the US a motza.

The US set up a similar deal with Ukraine in the early part of Russia’s invasion.

The US never got back more than a small fraction of the value of support and supply that it provided in WW2.

Certainly not a penny from the largest recipient, the Soviet Union.

Britain did get back some of the support they gave to the Soviets, they recovered some of the gold that was on a ship sunk on the northern convoy route a while ago if memory serves me.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/04/2022 10:31:56
From: Cymek
ID: 1877211
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


ABC News:

“Russia’s Foreign Minister says NATO support of Ukraine amounts to a proxy war
By Michael Doyle
Russia says NATO is “in essence engaged in war with Russia” as it continues to support Ukraine with weaponry.”

Well, derrr…

Cold War II – Electric Boogaloo

Reply Quote

Date: 26/04/2022 10:34:10
From: Michael V
ID: 1877212
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Michael V said:

captain_spalding said:

Was anyone adding it up when the US supplied Australia with planes and tanks in WW2? Probably.

Were we glad to get those things? Yes.

Did we need them? Definitely.

They sure were adding it up. Lend-lease. It made the US a motza.

The US set up a similar deal with Ukraine in the early part of Russia’s invasion.

The US never got back more than a small fraction of the value of support and supply that it provided in WW2.

Certainly not a penny from the largest recipient, the Soviet Union.

Huh!

I was under the impression that the US made lots from the scheme.

But I haven’t studied it.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/04/2022 10:37:58
From: Cymek
ID: 1877213
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Michael V said:


captain_spalding said:

Michael V said:

They sure were adding it up. Lend-lease. It made the US a motza.

The US set up a similar deal with Ukraine in the early part of Russia’s invasion.

The US never got back more than a small fraction of the value of support and supply that it provided in WW2.

Certainly not a penny from the largest recipient, the Soviet Union.

Huh!

I was under the impression that the US made lots from the scheme.

But I haven’t studied it.

The good will and comradeship the Soviet Union and the USA had was far more valuable than money

Reply Quote

Date: 26/04/2022 10:39:47
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1877214
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Cymek said:


captain_spalding said:

ABC News:

“Russia’s Foreign Minister says NATO support of Ukraine amounts to a proxy war
By Michael Doyle
Russia says NATO is “in essence engaged in war with Russia” as it continues to support Ukraine with weaponry.”

Well, derrr…

Cold War II – Electric Boogaloo

So what should USA be doing?

Reply Quote

Date: 26/04/2022 10:41:55
From: Cymek
ID: 1877215
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

The Rev Dodgson said:


Cymek said:

captain_spalding said:

ABC News:

“Russia’s Foreign Minister says NATO support of Ukraine amounts to a proxy war
By Michael Doyle
Russia says NATO is “in essence engaged in war with Russia” as it continues to support Ukraine with weaponry.”

Well, derrr…

Cold War II – Electric Boogaloo

So what should USA be doing?

Exactly what they are, the risk of WW3 is probably quite high if they get further involved

Reply Quote

Date: 26/04/2022 10:53:47
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1877217
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Cymek said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

Cymek said:

Cold War II – Electric Boogaloo

So what should USA be doing?

Exactly what they are, the risk of WW3 is probably quite high if they get further involved

That seems reasonable to me, but the video seemed to be suggesting that their part in the conflict was evil and should be different in some way.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/04/2022 18:57:01
From: Ian
ID: 1877322
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Reply Quote

Date: 26/04/2022 19:01:19
From: Boris
ID: 1877326
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eG1v2c33I4M

Link

Rescuing animals.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/04/2022 19:16:25
From: Kingy
ID: 1877332
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Ian said:



I’m kinda hoping that there is a better plan somewhere. The top middle/right are my preferred options out of those, but far too close to the bottom middle for my liking.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/04/2022 21:14:48
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1877365
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Boris said:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eG1v2c33I4M

Link

Rescuing animals.

Rescuing people

https://twitter.com/clarissaward/status/1518711322397057024

Reply Quote

Date: 26/04/2022 21:20:15
From: Boris
ID: 1877366
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:


Boris said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eG1v2c33I4M

Link

Rescuing animals.

Rescuing people

https://twitter.com/clarissaward/status/1518711322397057024

meh, that’s common though.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/04/2022 00:36:49
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1877411
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Kyiv has begun dismantling the statue known as the “Friendship of Peoples” monument which was installed in the 1980s to celebrate the unity of the Ukrainian and Russian people under the auspices of the Soviet Union.

The mayor of Kyiv, Vitali Klitschko, has posted on Facebook to say:

“Friends! The dismantling has started today and we plan to finish it in the evening. Russia “marked” its attitude to Ukraine with a barbaric desire to destroy our state and peaceful Ukrainians. We are dismantling 8 meters of metal of the so-called “friendship of two peoples”. And what is symbolic – when they tried to lift the sculpture with a crane, the head of a Russian worker fell off. Let’s rename the arch – old symbols take on a new meaning! And we will highlight it with the colours of the Ukrainian flag.”

Guardian Live

Reply Quote

Date: 27/04/2022 07:36:10
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1877428
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Ukraine complains to DJI that their drones leak operator’s location information. DJI responds by halting sales to Ukraine and Russia, as using their products for war goes against their usage policy.

https://www.dji.com/newsroom/news/dji-statement-on-sales-compliance-efforts

Reply Quote

Date: 27/04/2022 07:48:41
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1877429
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:

Ukraine complains to DJI that their drones leak operator’s location information. DJI responds by halting sales to Ukraine and Russia, as using their products for war goes against their usage policy.

https://www.dji.com/newsroom/news/dji-statement-on-sales-compliance-efforts

This makes me wonder if there isn’t a possibility of disguising operator location by using small and expendable relay stations between operator and drone. Or by some other means.

Also about the detection methods used. Do they, as some methods do, rely on detecting the intermediate frequency of the operator’s set? I’m a bit out of touch with such things, but i believe that, several years back at least, Plessey was working on producing radios that didn’t employ an IF, which would negate that sort of detection.

This is the kind of thing that would interest an erstwhile employer of mine, and they’d set someone on to finding out about it.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/04/2022 07:57:35
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1877430
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Dark Orange said:

Ukraine complains to DJI that their drones leak operator’s location information. DJI responds by halting sales to Ukraine and Russia, as using their products for war goes against their usage policy.

https://www.dji.com/newsroom/news/dji-statement-on-sales-compliance-efforts

This makes me wonder if there isn’t a possibility of disguising operator location by using small and expendable relay stations between operator and drone. Or by some other means.

Also about the detection methods used. Do they, as some methods do, rely on detecting the intermediate frequency of the operator’s set? I’m a bit out of touch with such things, but i believe that, several years back at least, Plessey was working on producing radios that didn’t employ an IF, which would negate that sort of detection.

This is the kind of thing that would interest an erstwhile employer of mine, and they’d set someone on to finding out about it.

There is provision for the drone to return “home” to the operator rather than a fixed geographic location, I would assume the hand set is constantly updating it’s location to the drone when this is enabled. (It may even do this when it is not enabled, who knows)

All you’d need to do is decode the data stream to the drone and you have the operator’s GPS location.

If that’s the case, all the operator needs to do is to get some GPS spoofing software for their phone to tell the drone they are slightly different location which should not affect the operation of the drone and at worst case, make the drone “return” to a location where it can be retrieved later.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/04/2022 08:03:53
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1877431
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Dark Orange said:

Ukraine complains to DJI that their drones leak operator’s location information. DJI responds by halting sales to Ukraine and Russia, as using their products for war goes against their usage policy.

https://www.dji.com/newsroom/news/dji-statement-on-sales-compliance-efforts

This makes me wonder if there isn’t a possibility of disguising operator location by using small and expendable relay stations between operator and drone. Or by some other means.

Also about the detection methods used. Do they, as some methods do, rely on detecting the intermediate frequency of the operator’s set? I’m a bit out of touch with such things, but i believe that, several years back at least, Plessey was working on producing radios that didn’t employ an IF, which would negate that sort of detection.

This is the kind of thing that would interest an erstwhile employer of mine, and they’d set someone on to finding out about it.

I don’t know about the DJI radio gear but the regular RC transmitter/receiver normally does frequency hopping at a rapid rate, to reduce the chances of interference. The old analogue gear had fixed frequencies, so when at a flying club before you turned your transmitter on you had to go to the radio shack and take the clothes peg that equated to your transmitter’s frequency. If the peg was gone, then someone else was flying so you couldn’t.
The modern digital gear is vastly better in that respect.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/04/2022 08:24:14
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1877433
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Interesting remarks from both DO ad SN.

As far as the frequency-hopping goes, i think that may tie in with the IF detection that i mentioned, as, while the transmitted signal may change frequency,the IF remains constant, n’est ce pas?

Reply Quote

Date: 27/04/2022 08:34:44
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1877437
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Interesting remarks from both DO ad SN.

As far as the frequency-hopping goes, i think that may tie in with the IF detection that i mentioned, as, while the transmitted signal may change frequency,the IF remains constant, n’est ce pas?

While “Spread Spectrum” is the basis of the majority (if not all) encrypted radio systems out there, its use in consumer and industrial hardware is less to do with security and more to do with Bill’s use of allowing multiple channels in a limited frequency band and would be simple to crack with the right gear and the datasheets of the hardware.

As far as the IF detection of the handset goes, anything is possible. However, that would be a problem with all consumer electronics in the field and not just DJI.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/04/2022 09:09:51
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1877444
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:

As far as the IF detection of the handset goes, anything is possible. However, that would be a problem with all consumer electronics in the field and not just DJI.

Oh, yeah, i can dig that.

AFAICR, Plessey was looking into producing frequency-hopping radios for field comms, without the risk of detection of the IF, just to make locating them harder. IF detection is a worry because the IF is detectable even when the radio isn’t transmitting.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/04/2022 09:19:24
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1877445
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Morning punters and correctors.
Overcast and rainy in the Pearl of the South Specific.
Nothing else to report.
Over.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/04/2022 09:41:07
From: sibeen
ID: 1877450
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Dark Orange said:

As far as the IF detection of the handset goes, anything is possible. However, that would be a problem with all consumer electronics in the field and not just DJI.

Oh, yeah, i can dig that.

AFAICR, Plessey was looking into producing frequency-hopping radios for field comms, without the risk of detection of the IF, just to make locating them harder. IF detection is a worry because the IF is detectable even when the radio isn’t transmitting.

That was probably project Raven that you are talking about.

I was with 72EW when they were trialling that. We were given one day notice that we were going to do a field trial with the new VHF jammer and the engineers who came to do the trial were a bunch of condescending dickheads. We did a trial on the Friday and then had the weekend off. I was absolutely steaming about the way we’d been treated. The jammer we were using was a 2 kW VHF transmitter and it had a test feature that wasn’t really documented and certainly wasn’t there to be used for jamming as it went wide band instead of selected frequencies.

Come Monday morning the wankers from Plessey turn up and I’m there with my landrover, stacked out with a range of spectrum analysers, radios, antennas etc. I was able to detect the range that the Raven radio were using, tell the jammer operators to select a frequency at the centre of that band and whenever I saw the Ravens talking radioed the jammer operators and told them to hit a button I’d hooked up.

I was not a popular camper with Plessey. The people at 72EW were very pleased with me :)

Note, you would never have tried this in a combat situation – the jammer was basically screaming “here I am, come lay a barrage upon me”.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/04/2022 09:49:06
From: sibeen
ID: 1877451
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

The jammer we were using. Had to tow a trailer carrying a 15 kVA generator as well. Not exactly man portable.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/04/2022 10:08:24
From: Michael V
ID: 1877456
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

sibeen said:


The jammer we were using. Had to tow a trailer carrying a 15 kVA generator as well. Not exactly man portable.


15kVA.

Heck.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/04/2022 10:11:41
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1877457
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

sibeen said:


captain_spalding said:

Dark Orange said:

As far as the IF detection of the handset goes, anything is possible. However, that would be a problem with all consumer electronics in the field and not just DJI.

Oh, yeah, i can dig that.

AFAICR, Plessey was looking into producing frequency-hopping radios for field comms, without the risk of detection of the IF, just to make locating them harder. IF detection is a worry because the IF is detectable even when the radio isn’t transmitting.

That was probably project Raven that you are talking about.

I was with 72EW when they were trialling that. We were given one day notice that we were going to do a field trial with the new VHF jammer and the engineers who came to do the trial were a bunch of condescending dickheads. We did a trial on the Friday and then had the weekend off. I was absolutely steaming about the way we’d been treated. The jammer we were using was a 2 kW VHF transmitter and it had a test feature that wasn’t really documented and certainly wasn’t there to be used for jamming as it went wide band instead of selected frequencies.

Come Monday morning the wankers from Plessey turn up and I’m there with my landrover, stacked out with a range of spectrum analysers, radios, antennas etc. I was able to detect the range that the Raven radio were using, tell the jammer operators to select a frequency at the centre of that band and whenever I saw the Ravens talking radioed the jammer operators and told them to hit a button I’d hooked up.

I was not a popular camper with Plessey. The people at 72EW were very pleased with me :)

Note, you would never have tried this in a combat situation – the jammer was basically screaming “here I am, come lay a barrage upon me”.

‘Project Raven’ rings a bell.

Never did hear a lot about it after the initial flash of publicity.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/04/2022 14:00:03
From: transition
ID: 1877502
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Dark Orange said:

As far as the IF detection of the handset goes, anything is possible. However, that would be a problem with all consumer electronics in the field and not just DJI.

Oh, yeah, i can dig that.

AFAICR, Plessey was looking into producing frequency-hopping radios for field comms, without the risk of detection of the IF, just to make locating them harder. IF detection is a worry because the IF is detectable even when the radio isn’t transmitting.

I expect these days the big guys can generate a footprint of ideal noise from satellited (or terrestrially even) to bury both satellite and terrestrial spread spectrum communications (making location very difficult to narrow down), I mean spread spectrum can operate into the noise anyway, below the noise floor

you could even hide mil comms in mobile phone transmissions, towers and phones, in that spectrum

there would be ways also of hiding signal correspondence with distractional techniques, making analysis difficult

Reply Quote

Date: 27/04/2022 14:17:34
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1877504
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

“Ukrainian Operational Command South reported on April 26 that its forces struck at Russian positions on Snake Island, hitting the command post and destroying a Strela-10 anti-aircraft missile system.”

Reply Quote

Date: 28/04/2022 01:08:02
From: sibeen
ID: 1877595
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Berlin’s outdoor swimming pools will be two degrees chillier this summer than in previous years, in what the state operator says is its contribution towards reducing German reliance on Russian gas.

Water at the German capital’s 16 gas-heated Sommerbäder or lidos, which start to open this week, will be kept below the weather-dependent standard temperature throughout the summer season.

“We have made this decision because we wanted to make a contribution to the reduction of gas imports”, said a spokesperson for Berliner Bäder-Betriebe, Europe’s largest communal pool operator.

CLAP CLAP CLAP

Germany doing all it can to fight back against evil.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/04/2022 13:50:01
From: dv
ID: 1877739
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Russia has cut off gas to Bulgaria and Poland, with the reason given that they refuse to pay in rubels. Germany has also refused to pay in rubels so perhaps the fact that Russia is starting with less powerful nations is an attempt to drive a wedge between the alliance. Hopefully alternative arrangements can be made quickly.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/04/2022 15:44:40
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1877801
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

The sheer scale of laughable lies being told in Russia is quite breathtaking:

Oh my God, comrade! How Russians use church as KGB dealership

It’s not a secret that KGB agents were working as priests when churches became legalised in USSR.
It’s not a secret that they still do the same with the FSB.
Welcome to the Russian Orthodox Church. It’s surely presented in your country too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olacZBA4ptc

Reply Quote

Date: 1/05/2022 21:18:42
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1878721
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

see it looks like everyone wins

Russia get their corridor and free disposal of obsolete technology, we get to laugh at stupid Russians throwing away their military and failing to hold the north, Ukraine get to imagine they beat back the bastards, NATO get some extra members, Donbas get to dream they’re independent, what’s not to enjoy¿

Reply Quote

Date: 1/05/2022 21:33:32
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1878723
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:


see it looks like everyone wins

Russia get their corridor and free disposal of obsolete technology, we get to laugh at stupid Russians throwing away their military and failing to hold the north, Ukraine get to imagine they beat back the bastards, NATO get some extra members, Donbas get to dream they’re independent, what’s not to enjoy¿

With all the advanced weaponry being supplied to Ukraine by many nations, plus the dedicated defense of the Ukrainians, it is far from being assured that Russia will be able to take control of any part of Ukraine. Russia has many problems with their soldiers morale, leadership and effective weapons, many of which they are losing quickly and cannot be replaced easily, if at all.

The war in Ukraine is becoming more like a conflict between NATO and Russia with the Ukrainians being a courageous and highly effective delivery system.

Reply Quote

Date: 1/05/2022 22:46:01
From: transition
ID: 1878733
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


SCIENCE said:

see it looks like everyone wins

Russia get their corridor and free disposal of obsolete technology, we get to laugh at stupid Russians throwing away their military and failing to hold the north, Ukraine get to imagine they beat back the bastards, NATO get some extra members, Donbas get to dream they’re independent, what’s not to enjoy¿

With all the advanced weaponry being supplied to Ukraine by many nations, plus the dedicated defense of the Ukrainians, it is far from being assured that Russia will be able to take control of any part of Ukraine. Russia has many problems with their soldiers morale, leadership and effective weapons, many of which they are losing quickly and cannot be replaced easily, if at all.

The war in Ukraine is becoming more like a conflict between NATO and Russia with the Ukrainians being a courageous and highly effective delivery system.

depends what is meant by control

i’d expect the russians would be happy to just flatten the country, exorcising the hostile western influence on their border(as they may see it), along with an evident invitation to NATO to come a little closer, and a further invitation to swap mushroom clouds with the US

that’s my naive read of the situation, and I know not much to be honest

Reply Quote

Date: 1/05/2022 23:34:34
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1878737
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

There are reports that Russia’s Chief of the General Staff (The big boss of the military) got a little too close to the action. It would be a pretty big deal if the Ukrainians have managed to take him out.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 00:06:56
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1878741
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:

There are reports that Russia’s Chief of the General Staff (The big boss of the military) got a little too close to the action. It would be a pretty big deal if the Ukrainians have managed to take him out.

They have already taken out 14 or more military top brass since the start of the war, so anything is possible.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 00:46:24
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1878743
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


Dark Orange said:

There are reports that Russia’s Chief of the General Staff (The big boss of the military) got a little too close to the action. It would be a pretty big deal if the Ukrainians have managed to take him out.

They have already taken out 14 or more military top brass since the start of the war, so anything is possible.

Putin is apparently suffering from cancer and will require surgery shortly. Being the driving force behind the Ukraine invasion, it will be interesting to see what happens when he is removed for a period of time.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 00:55:30
From: AussieDJ
ID: 1878744
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:

Putin is apparently suffering from cancer and will require surgery shortly.

Where have you seen that?

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 01:41:04
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1878748
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

AussieDJ said:


PermeateFree said:

Putin is apparently suffering from cancer and will require surgery shortly.

Where have you seen that?

UTube, there have been numerous suggestions by many commentators that Putin was sick over the past few days. The above was released within the last few hours.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 01:44:14
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1878749
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


AussieDJ said:

PermeateFree said:

Putin is apparently suffering from cancer and will require surgery shortly.

Where have you seen that?

UTube, there have been numerous suggestions by many commentators that Putin was sick over the past few days. The above was released within the last few hours.

VLADIMIR Putin has cancer – as well as symptoms of Parkinson’s Disease – and had emergency surgery in February, it was claimed today. Political analyst Valery Solovei – whose earlier claims about the Russian strongman’s failing health were denied – also said Putin plans to announce his Kremlin exit early in the New Year.

https://www.the-sun.com/news/1832396/putin-cancer-parkinsons-emergency-surgery/

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 02:17:19
From: AussieDJ
ID: 1878750
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


PermeateFree said:

AussieDJ said:

Where have you seen that?

UTube, there have been numerous suggestions by many commentators that Putin was sick over the past few days. The above was released within the last few hours.

VLADIMIR Putin has cancer – as well as symptoms of Parkinson’s Disease – and had emergency surgery in February, it was claimed today. Political analyst Valery Solovei – whose earlier claims about the Russian strongman’s failing health were denied – also said Putin plans to announce his Kremlin exit early in the New Year.

https://www.the-sun.com/news/1832396/putin-cancer-parkinsons-emergency-surgery/


Interesting. Thanks.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 02:18:01
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1878752
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


PermeateFree said:

AussieDJ said:

Where have you seen that?

UTube, there have been numerous suggestions by many commentators that Putin was sick over the past few days. The above was released within the last few hours.

VLADIMIR Putin has cancer – as well as symptoms of Parkinson’s Disease – and had emergency surgery in February, it was claimed today. Political analyst Valery Solovei – whose earlier claims about the Russian strongman’s failing health were denied – also said Putin plans to announce his Kremlin exit early in the New Year.

https://www.the-sun.com/news/1832396/putin-cancer-parkinsons-emergency-surgery/

On checking Valery Solovei, he is regarded by many in Russia as a conspiracy theorist and has claimed Putin was seriously ill before. However many news outlets are now taking up the story, so we shall see what eventuates.

>>Valery Solovei (born 19 August 1960) is a Russian political scientist, historian, and former head of the Public Relations Department at the Moscow State Institute of International Relations (MGIMO). He resigned from the MGIMO on June 19, 2019 after being requested by the University administration. Wiki.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 02:58:17
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1878753
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Putin’s chief of staff Valery Gerasimov is ‘wounded by shrapnel after being sent to Ukraine by Russian president to secure victory’, reports claim – as ANOTHER mystery explosion rocks Russian city

Valery Gerasimov, Russian army’s chief of staff, was flown out of Izyum near Kharkiv with shrapnel wounds
The top military commander had been sent to the region to take personal control of push to grab territory
The Kharkiv region has been at the centre of intense fighting since Russia’s invasion in February
But conflict in the region has intensified even further in recent weeks amid Russia’s assault in eastern Ukraine
Kharviv is also where Russia’s ninth general, Andrei Simonov, 55, was killed in a Ukrainian attack yesterday

Putin had sent Gerasimov to the region to take personal control of his push to grab territory in eastern Ukraine, after the Russian army abandoned its plans to take Kyiv at the end of March in favour of a concentrated assault on the Donbas region of Donetsk and Luhansk.

An unofficial Russian source reported that Gerasimov sustained ‘a shrapnel wound in the upper third of the right leg without a bone fracture.

‘The shard was removed – there is no danger to life,’ he said.

But Gerasimov’s injury was severe enough to have him flown away from the frontlines and back to Russia to undergo further treatment, marking another embarrassing defeat for Putin’s forces.

The chief of staff’s injury came just one day after Russian Major General Andrei Simonov, 55, was killed in Kharkiv, according to an adviser to Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky.

He is Russia’s ninth general to have been killed since the start of the invasion.

Ukrainian interior ministry adviser Anton Gerashchenko said the attack on Izyum was ‘the very place where…Gerasimov, who personally came to lead the attack on Slavyansk, was located’.

A ‘large number’ of senior officers were killed in the attack which wounded Gerasimov, Gerashchenko said.

Pro-Ukrainian Telegram channel Vertikal also alleged Gerasimov had been ‘wounded near Izyum’, citing unspecified sources.

‘Our source reports that his legs and hips are damaged,’ Vertikal said.

It suggested that three of Gerasimov’s entourage had been killed before he was evacuated.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10772727/Putins-military-commander-Valery-Gerasimov-wounded-forced-evacuate-war-zone.html

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 03:22:37
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1878754
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Putin JUST REVEALED: “Russia’s Economy Has Collapsed!”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PZgGWVskW0

Does not look good for Russia.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 09:14:59
From: Ian
ID: 1878790
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

AussieDJ said:


PermeateFree said:

PermeateFree said:

UTube, there have been numerous suggestions by many commentators that Putin was sick over the past few days. The above was released within the last few hours.

VLADIMIR Putin has cancer – as well as symptoms of Parkinson’s Disease – and had emergency surgery in February, it was claimed today. Political analyst Valery Solovei – whose earlier claims about the Russian strongman’s failing health were denied – also said Putin plans to announce his Kremlin exit early in the New Year.

https://www.the-sun.com/news/1832396/putin-cancer-parkinsons-emergency-surgery/


Interesting. Thanks.

Yes. I was thinking there was a high probability he has syphilis.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 09:18:58
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1878793
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Ian said:


AussieDJ said:

PermeateFree said:

VLADIMIR Putin has cancer – as well as symptoms of Parkinson’s Disease – and had emergency surgery in February, it was claimed today. Political analyst Valery Solovei – whose earlier claims about the Russian strongman’s failing health were denied – also said Putin plans to announce his Kremlin exit early in the New Year.

https://www.the-sun.com/news/1832396/putin-cancer-parkinsons-emergency-surgery/


Interesting. Thanks.

Yes. I was thinking there was a high probability he has syphilis.

Got an address I can send a Get well fucked card to?

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 09:20:20
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1878794
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Ian said:


AussieDJ said:

PermeateFree said:

VLADIMIR Putin has cancer – as well as symptoms of Parkinson’s Disease – and had emergency surgery in February, it was claimed today. Political analyst Valery Solovei – whose earlier claims about the Russian strongman’s failing health were denied – also said Putin plans to announce his Kremlin exit early in the New Year.

https://www.the-sun.com/news/1832396/putin-cancer-parkinsons-emergency-surgery/


Interesting. Thanks.

Yes. I was thinking there was a high probability he has syphilis.

Dunno about any of that, but he does seem to want to avoid any casual contacts/nearness with almost everyone.

His recent meeting with the UN Secretary-General featured the now-familiar long table, with Putin at one end, and the visitor at the other.

When he visited Vladimir Zhirinovsky’s casket in a Moscow cathedral, everyone, including the honour guard, was removed from the immediate vicinity.

If he’s not sick, he might be worried about getting sick.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 14:01:45
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1878879
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Ian said:


AussieDJ said:

PermeateFree said:

VLADIMIR Putin has cancer – as well as symptoms of Parkinson’s Disease – and had emergency surgery in February, it was claimed today. Political analyst Valery Solovei – whose earlier claims about the Russian strongman’s failing health were denied – also said Putin plans to announce his Kremlin exit early in the New Year.

https://www.the-sun.com/news/1832396/putin-cancer-parkinsons-emergency-surgery/


Interesting. Thanks.

Yes. I was thinking there was a high probability he has syphilis.

As nobody seems to be interested in this war, I will not post on it further.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 14:12:59
From: Cymek
ID: 1878880
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


Ian said:

AussieDJ said:

Interesting. Thanks.

Yes. I was thinking there was a high probability he has syphilis.

As nobody seems to be interested in this war, I will not post on it further.

With Ukraine so damaged I wonder if they will ever recover assuming the war ends with them retaining most territory.
Destroy decades or centuries of building in months

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 14:21:41
From: dv
ID: 1878882
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Cymek said:


PermeateFree said:

Ian said:

Yes. I was thinking there was a high probability he has syphilis.

As nobody seems to be interested in this war, I will not post on it further.

With Ukraine so damaged I wonder if they will ever recover assuming the war ends with them retaining most territory.
Destroy decades or centuries of building in months

Ah well Germany bounced back.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 14:22:35
From: Cymek
ID: 1878883
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

As nobody seems to be interested in this war, I will not post on it further.

With Ukraine so damaged I wonder if they will ever recover assuming the war ends with them retaining most territory.
Destroy decades or centuries of building in months

Ah well Germany bounced back.

Eventually yes, but didn’t they get a lot of help rebuilding

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 14:31:03
From: dv
ID: 1878884
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Cymek said:


dv said:

Cymek said:

With Ukraine so damaged I wonder if they will ever recover assuming the war ends with them retaining most territory.
Destroy decades or centuries of building in months

Ah well Germany bounced back.

Eventually yes, but didn’t they get a lot of help rebuilding

Yes, and the West is already drawing up a post conflict aid program. If Ukraine wins this thing and moves closer to the EU and Nato, it will be in the West’s interest to see she does well, much as was the case with South Korea.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 14:43:21
From: Woodie
ID: 1878887
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


Cymek said:

dv said:

Ah well Germany bounced back.

Eventually yes, but didn’t they get a lot of help rebuilding

Yes, and the West is already drawing up a post conflict aid program. If Ukraine wins this thing and moves closer to the EU and Nato, it will be in the West’s interest to see she does well, much as was the case with South Korea.

………. and Allepo. Don’t forget Allepo.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 14:51:02
From: dv
ID: 1878888
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Woodie said:


dv said:

Cymek said:

Eventually yes, but didn’t they get a lot of help rebuilding

Yes, and the West is already drawing up a post conflict aid program. If Ukraine wins this thing and moves closer to the EU and Nato, it will be in the West’s interest to see she does well, much as was the case with South Korea.

………. and Allepo. Don’t forget Allepo.

We lost that one. That’s like North Korea… it’s in the West’s interests that they suffer in their jocks.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 16:01:38
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1878899
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:

As nobody seems to be interested in this war, I will not post on it further.

I think that it’s not that people aren’t ‘interested’.

It’s just that the surprise of the initial stages of the conflict is over. The first thrusts of invasion have been stopped, and in some cases turned back.

Now it’s the steady slogging, and the waiting to see what the Russians try next, where the next countermoves have to be made.

And Ukraine is in a transitional period. They’ve been using Russian/Soviet types of weapons until now, but they’re also training on how to use the Western/NATO types of weapons that are being provided. They’ve been marshalling the majority of their armoured and mechanised forces and they’re not going to push them into the fight in large numbers unless they can see that it’s needed and will do significant good.

The Russians are dithering a bit, too, concentrating on Mariupol, and working out themselves what to do after that. They may have a plan, and they’ve been organising for it.

Act III hasn’t begun yet.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 16:13:57
From: dv
ID: 1878900
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:

As nobody seems to be interested in this war

What an odd thing to say. It remains one of the hottest topics on the forum.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 16:29:19
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1878904
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Cymek said:


dv said:

Cymek said:

With Ukraine so damaged I wonder if they will ever recover assuming the war ends with them retaining most territory.
Destroy decades or centuries of building in months

Ah well Germany bounced back.

Eventually yes, but didn’t they get a lot of help rebuilding

As will Ukraine.
Russia, however may never recover.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 16:39:01
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1878905
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


PermeateFree said:

As nobody seems to be interested in this war, I will not post on it further.

I think that it’s not that people aren’t ‘interested’.

It’s just that the surprise of the initial stages of the conflict is over. The first thrusts of invasion have been stopped, and in some cases turned back.

Now it’s the steady slogging, and the waiting to see what the Russians try next, where the next countermoves have to be made.

And Ukraine is in a transitional period. They’ve been using Russian/Soviet types of weapons until now, but they’re also training on how to use the Western/NATO types of weapons that are being provided. They’ve been marshalling the majority of their armoured and mechanised forces and they’re not going to push them into the fight in large numbers unless they can see that it’s needed and will do significant good.

The Russians are dithering a bit, too, concentrating on Mariupol, and working out themselves what to do after that. They may have a plan, and they’ve been organising for it.

Act III hasn’t begun yet.

I don’t think you are quite correct there as much is currently going and future activities are being activated now. The observable seesaw I find very interesting as David battles with Goliath and it is always good to see the bully brought down. You don’t watch a football match to only see the beginning and the end, as much can happen in the middle to determine events. Trends are currently developing in Ukraine and are only countered my momentous effort.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 16:46:08
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1878906
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:

PermeateFree said:

As nobody seems to be interested in this war

What an odd thing to say. It remains one of the hottest topics on the forum.

It is only when you try to find the previous thread and the number of pages you must pass through to find it, do you realise how little has recently been said about the matter. Attention to topic here is very much like the press and the general public (very fleeting).

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 16:52:13
From: dv
ID: 1878908
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

This thread alone got 700 posts just in the last month, and it is not the only thread on the topic.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 16:52:53
From: sibeen
ID: 1878909
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


dv said:

PermeateFree said:

As nobody seems to be interested in this war

What an odd thing to say. It remains one of the hottest topics on the forum.

It is only when you try to find the previous thread and the number of pages you must pass through to find it, do you realise how little has recently been said about the matter. Attention to topic here is very much like the press and the general public (very fleeting).

That makes absolutely no sense.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 16:56:06
From: dv
ID: 1878910
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


This thread alone got 700 posts just in the last month, and it is not the only thread on the topic.

And why is everything about you? “Since people are only posting 700 times a month on this topic, I’ll post no more! Exeunt!” Jesus.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 17:02:02
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1878911
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


This thread alone got 700 posts just in the last month, and it is not the only thread on the topic.

But had not been used for some time and had been swamped by largely trivia posts.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 17:03:03
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1878912
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

sibeen said:


PermeateFree said:

dv said:

What an odd thing to say. It remains one of the hottest topics on the forum.

It is only when you try to find the previous thread and the number of pages you must pass through to find it, do you realise how little has recently been said about the matter. Attention to topic here is very much like the press and the general public (very fleeting).

That makes absolutely no sense.

Just like anything electrical that you haven’t thought of first.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 17:05:17
From: sibeen
ID: 1878914
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


sibeen said:

PermeateFree said:

It is only when you try to find the previous thread and the number of pages you must pass through to find it, do you realise how little has recently been said about the matter. Attention to topic here is very much like the press and the general public (very fleeting).

That makes absolutely no sense.

Just like anything electrical that you haven’t thought of first.

That didn’t make any sense either, you’re on a roll.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 17:06:53
From: Boris
ID: 1878916
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

sibeen said:


PermeateFree said:

sibeen said:

That makes absolutely no sense.

Just like anything electrical that you haven’t thought of first.

That didn’t make any sense either, you’re on a roll.

it’s, apparently, the long way to the shops.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 17:07:23
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1878917
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


dv said:

This thread alone got 700 posts just in the last month, and it is not the only thread on the topic.

And why is everything about you? “Since people are only posting 700 times a month on this topic, I’ll post no more! Exeunt!” Jesus.

Because after I posted several reports there were only three gratuitous posts in return, that indicates to me that there is little interest in the topic. Sorry I don’t post more trivia for you to salivate over.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 17:08:55
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1878918
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

sibeen said:


PermeateFree said:

sibeen said:

That makes absolutely no sense.

Just like anything electrical that you haven’t thought of first.

That didn’t make any sense either, you’re on a roll.

Words from the HF sage (or so he thinks).

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 17:19:10
From: Michael V
ID: 1878923
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

BBC: Russian troops kidnap, mutilate Ukrainian lab assistant.

The 31-year-old lab assistant at a Kyiv city hospital was reportedly taken 600 kilometers northeast of Kyiv to a detention center in Kursk, Russia where he was repeatedly beaten up. The man also suffered a frostbite and had his toes amputated. Ukrainian ombudsman Lyudmyla Denisova confirmed on May 1 that Ukrainians who have returned from Russian captivity reported poor treatment and had signs of physical abuse.

——————————————————————

CNN: Nearly $5 million worth of farming equipment stolen by Russian troops from Melitopol.

According to a Ukrainian businessman from the city interviewed by the CNN, Russian forces have shipped numerous farming vehicles to Russia’s republic of Chechnya, however the equipment has been remotely disabled, rendering it unusable. The equipment now appears to be languishing at a farm near Grozny.

——————————————————————

UN: Russian blockade prevents export of 4.5 million tons of Ukrainian wheat.

As a result of Russia’s blockade of Ukrainian ports, sea routes cannot be accessed to export Ukrainian grains. Western countries have repeatedly warned of a possible food crisis and famine in a number of countries due to Russia’s war against Ukraine.

——————————————————————

https://kyivindependent.com/news-archive/

(current)

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 17:21:54
From: Cymek
ID: 1878928
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Michael V said:

BBC: Russian troops kidnap, mutilate Ukrainian lab assistant.

The 31-year-old lab assistant at a Kyiv city hospital was reportedly taken 600 kilometers northeast of Kyiv to a detention center in Kursk, Russia where he was repeatedly beaten up. The man also suffered a frostbite and had his toes amputated. Ukrainian ombudsman Lyudmyla Denisova confirmed on May 1 that Ukrainians who have returned from Russian captivity reported poor treatment and had signs of physical abuse.

——————————————————————

CNN: Nearly $5 million worth of farming equipment stolen by Russian troops from Melitopol.

According to a Ukrainian businessman from the city interviewed by the CNN, Russian forces have shipped numerous farming vehicles to Russia’s republic of Chechnya, however the equipment has been remotely disabled, rendering it unusable. The equipment now appears to be languishing at a farm near Grozny.

——————————————————————

UN: Russian blockade prevents export of 4.5 million tons of Ukrainian wheat.

As a result of Russia’s blockade of Ukrainian ports, sea routes cannot be accessed to export Ukrainian grains. Western countries have repeatedly warned of a possible food crisis and famine in a number of countries due to Russia’s war against Ukraine.

——————————————————————

https://kyivindependent.com/news-archive/

(current)

Seems many Russia soldiers are just criminals and sadists masquerading as soldiers

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 17:22:45
From: dv
ID: 1878930
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Before Perm’s complaint, the previous post in this thread was at 9:20am. There’d already been several posts today.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 17:26:37
From: Michael V
ID: 1878932
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


Before Perm’s complaint, the previous post in this thread was at 9:20am. There’d already been several posts today.

!

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 17:31:18
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1878936
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

we mean we don’t always agree with dv slash mv but damn the evidence is pretty clear that of recent long threads, election and war and SARACAIDS-MISC are the ones that are up there

or même chat but to be fair we aren’t counting those

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 17:38:33
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1878941
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


Before Perm’s complaint, the previous post in this thread was at 9:20am. There’d already been several posts today.

Yes and the recommencement of this thread was because of me saying I could not find it and then I started the “Ukraine vs Russian conflict” thread, which is no longer being used. The Ukraine/Russian War had not been discussed for some time before I brought it up again.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 17:39:43
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1878944
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Michael V said:


dv said:

Before Perm’s complaint, the previous post in this thread was at 9:20am. There’d already been several posts today.

!

Thank you for not checking your facts.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 17:44:11
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1878948
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


Michael V said:

dv said:

Before Perm’s complaint, the previous post in this thread was at 9:20am. There’d already been several posts today.

!

Thank you for not checking your facts.

From: PermeateFree
ID: 1878641
Subject: Ukraine vs Russian conflict.
Could not find the last thread, but new one due as things are beginning to look very interesting.

Russian troops are fighting with their Chechen comrades.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNWKFfFtHPc&ab_channel=Trendingnews

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 17:46:50
From: dv
ID: 1878951
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:


we mean we don’t always agree with dv slash mv but damn the evidence is pretty clear that of recent long threads, election and war and SARACAIDS-MISC are the ones that are up there

or même chat but to be fair we aren’t counting those

For obv reasons, it’s hard to get information on exactly how much progress is being made. Apparently Kherson is back in play.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 17:49:49
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1878957
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


SCIENCE said:

we mean we don’t always agree with dv slash mv but damn the evidence is pretty clear that of recent long threads, election and war and SARACAIDS-MISC are the ones that are up there

or même chat but to be fair we aren’t counting those

For obv reasons, it’s hard to get information on exactly how much progress is being made. Apparently Kherson is back in play.

Shame, not much trivia involved with the Ukraine/Russian war. Never mind dv you have the stage most other times.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 17:51:39
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1878959
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


SCIENCE said:

we mean we don’t always agree with dv slash mv but damn the evidence is pretty clear that of recent long threads, election and war and SARACAIDS-MISC are the ones that are up there

or même chat but to be fair we aren’t counting those

For obv reasons, it’s hard to get information on exactly how much progress is being made. Apparently Kherson is back in play.

Ukraine still needs more air assets. They’re probably getting excellent targetting info from the American RC-135s that buzz around the periphery, and from American satellites, but aren’t able to take full advantage of it.

Those Russian supply and reinforcement columns are an A2G pilot’s dream.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 17:51:52
From: Cymek
ID: 1878960
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


dv said:

SCIENCE said:

we mean we don’t always agree with dv slash mv but damn the evidence is pretty clear that of recent long threads, election and war and SARACAIDS-MISC are the ones that are up there

or même chat but to be fair we aren’t counting those

For obv reasons, it’s hard to get information on exactly how much progress is being made. Apparently Kherson is back in play.

Shame, not much trivia involved with the Ukraine/Russian war. Never mind dv you have the stage most other times.

Its depressing news the Ukraine war and we are far removed from it, imagine living through it.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 17:52:46
From: Cymek
ID: 1878963
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


dv said:

SCIENCE said:

we mean we don’t always agree with dv slash mv but damn the evidence is pretty clear that of recent long threads, election and war and SARACAIDS-MISC are the ones that are up there

or même chat but to be fair we aren’t counting those

For obv reasons, it’s hard to get information on exactly how much progress is being made. Apparently Kherson is back in play.

Ukraine still needs more air assets. They’re probably getting excellent targetting info from the American RC-135s that buzz around the periphery, and from American satellites, but aren’t able to take full advantage of it.

Those Russian supply and reinforcement columns are an A2G pilot’s dream.

Can imagine they’d go boom with a few well placed missiles launched from jets

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 17:53:49
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1878964
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Cymek said:


captain_spalding said:

dv said:

For obv reasons, it’s hard to get information on exactly how much progress is being made. Apparently Kherson is back in play.

Ukraine still needs more air assets. They’re probably getting excellent targetting info from the American RC-135s that buzz around the periphery, and from American satellites, but aren’t able to take full advantage of it.

Those Russian supply and reinforcement columns are an A2G pilot’s dream.

Can imagine they’d go boom with a few well placed missiles launched from jets

Even just ‘ploughing the field’ with the 20mm would be a good day’s work.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 17:57:18
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1878970
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


PermeateFree said:

Michael V said:

!

Thank you for not checking your facts.

From: PermeateFree
ID: 1878641
Subject: Ukraine vs Russian conflict.
Could not find the last thread, but new one due as things are beginning to look very interesting.

Russian troops are fighting with their Chechen comrades.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNWKFfFtHPc&ab_channel=Trendingnews

well we don’t know like it’s a bit much to say that something can’t be found if the search wasn’t particularly extensive

then again it seems the common thing to do here is to ask people where that thread was and almost always get a correct response so make of the absence of that what you will

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 18:03:27
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1878973
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:


PermeateFree said:

PermeateFree said:

Thank you for not checking your facts.

From: PermeateFree
ID: 1878641
Subject: Ukraine vs Russian conflict.
Could not find the last thread, but new one due as things are beginning to look very interesting.

Russian troops are fighting with their Chechen comrades.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNWKFfFtHPc&ab_channel=Trendingnews

well we don’t know like it’s a bit much to say that something can’t be found if the search wasn’t particularly extensive

then again it seems the common thing to do here is to ask people where that thread was and almost always get a correct response so make of the absence of that what you will

What do you think I did here, start a new thread just to get my name on it? After checking a considerable number of pages I decided to give it away. Sorry I didn’t ask anyone to find it for me, but I did not think it was of interest anymore and so I started a new one. Haven’t you done the same re Covid?

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 18:06:17
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1878974
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:

What do you think I did here, start a new thread just to get my name on it? After checking a considerable number of pages I decided to give it away. Sorry I didn’t ask anyone to find it for me, but I did not think it was of interest anymore and so I started a new one. Haven’t you done the same re Covid?

You boys wanna take this outside?

We got a war to discuss in here?

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 18:11:54
From: Ian
ID: 1878976
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


SCIENCE said:

PermeateFree said:

From: PermeateFree
ID: 1878641
Subject: Ukraine vs Russian conflict.
Could not find the last thread, but new one due as things are beginning to look very interesting.

Russian troops are fighting with their Chechen comrades.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNWKFfFtHPc&ab_channel=Trendingnews

well we don’t know like it’s a bit much to say that something can’t be found if the search wasn’t particularly extensive

then again it seems the common thing to do here is to ask people where that thread was and almost always get a correct response so make of the absence of that what you will

What do you think I did here, start a new thread just to get my name on it? After checking a considerable number of pages I decided to give it away. Sorry I didn’t ask anyone to find it for me, but I did not think it was of interest anymore and so I started a new one. Haven’t you done the same re Covid?

Yes, you have a point.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 18:20:56
From: dv
ID: 1878978
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


PermeateFree said:

What do you think I did here, start a new thread just to get my name on it? After checking a considerable number of pages I decided to give it away. Sorry I didn’t ask anyone to find it for me, but I did not think it was of interest anymore and so I started a new one. Haven’t you done the same re Covid?

You boys wanna take this outside?

We got a war to discuss in here?

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 18:24:46
From: Ian
ID: 1878981
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Ian said:


PermeateFree said:

SCIENCE said:

well we don’t know like it’s a bit much to say that something can’t be found if the search wasn’t particularly extensive

then again it seems the common thing to do here is to ask people where that thread was and almost always get a correct response so make of the absence of that what you will

What do you think I did here, start a new thread just to get my name on it? After checking a considerable number of pages I decided to give it away. Sorry I didn’t ask anyone to find it for me, but I did not think it was of interest anymore and so I started a new one. Haven’t you done the same re Covid?

Yes, you have a point.

OTOH Putin’s war is covered extensively in MSM every day. It’s really needn’t be discussed here at all.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 18:26:01
From: dv
ID: 1878983
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Ian said:


Ian said:

PermeateFree said:

What do you think I did here, start a new thread just to get my name on it? After checking a considerable number of pages I decided to give it away. Sorry I didn’t ask anyone to find it for me, but I did not think it was of interest anymore and so I started a new one. Haven’t you done the same re Covid?

Yes, you have a point.

OTOH Putin’s war is covered extensively in MSM every day. It’s really needn’t be discussed here at all.

Yet it is. It remains one of the top four topics here day in day out.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 18:33:41
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1878988
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


Ian said:

Ian said:

Yes, you have a point.

OTOH Putin’s war is covered extensively in MSM every day. It’s really needn’t be discussed here at all.

Yet it is. It remains one of the top four topics here day in day out.

There has been little to no serious discussion about the Ukraine/Russian war here for quite some time. I spend 2-3 hours daily checking the outcomes and I don’t recall getting any leads from here to follow up.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 18:38:41
From: Michael V
ID: 1878990
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


dv said:

Ian said:

OTOH Putin’s war is covered extensively in MSM every day. It’s really needn’t be discussed here at all.

Yet it is. It remains one of the top four topics here day in day out.

There has been little to no serious discussion about the Ukraine/Russian war here for quite some time. I spend 2-3 hours daily checking the outcomes and I don’t recall getting any leads from here to follow up.

Here’s one.

https://kyivindependent.com/news-archive/

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 18:46:09
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1878992
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


dv said:

Ian said:

OTOH Putin’s war is covered extensively in MSM every day. It’s really needn’t be discussed here at all.

Yet it is. It remains one of the top four topics here day in day out.

There has been little to no serious discussion about the Ukraine/Russian war here for quite some time. I spend 2-3 hours daily checking the outcomes and I don’t recall getting any leads from here to follow up.

People care, it is a balancing act and, a decision that weighs heavily on the world leaders in how to tread there would be no doubt about that.

The threat of nuclear war is very real right now. The best way to help Ukraine is to provide options for those fleeing and feed through armory to help bolster their defense, they are digging in because it literally is life of death.

There is a global responsibility too and that is to find the way to end this war without massacring nations of people in surrounding regions because of a knee jerk reaction.

I do not envy the world leaders right now, in finding the solution of how to balance realising people are dying and will die against showing restraint to save many more lives.

Where is that line drawn and why? It is a true tragedy any way you spin it.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 18:49:25
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1878993
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:

captain_spalding said:

Ian said:

PermeateFree said:

SCIENCE said:

well we don’t know like it’s a bit much to say that something can’t be found if the search wasn’t particularly extensive

then again it seems the common thing to do here is to ask people where that thread was and almost always get a correct response so make of the absence of that what you will

What do you think I did here, start a new thread just to get my name on it? After checking a considerable number of pages I decided to give it away. Sorry I didn’t ask anyone to find it for me, but I did not think it was of interest anymore and so I started a new one. Haven’t you done the same re Covid?

Yes, you have a point.

You boys wanna take this outside?

We got a war to discuss in here?


But the thing is, we actually agree with PermeateFree: with COVID-19, we haven’t

So yes, we haven’t.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 19:28:40
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1879004
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

monkey skipper said:


PermeateFree said:

dv said:

Yet it is. It remains one of the top four topics here day in day out.

There has been little to no serious discussion about the Ukraine/Russian war here for quite some time. I spend 2-3 hours daily checking the outcomes and I don’t recall getting any leads from here to follow up.

People care, it is a balancing act and, a decision that weighs heavily on the world leaders in how to tread there would be no doubt about that.

The threat of nuclear war is very real right now. The best way to help Ukraine is to provide options for those fleeing and feed through armory to help bolster their defense, they are digging in because it literally is life of death.

There is a global responsibility too and that is to find the way to end this war without massacring nations of people in surrounding regions because of a knee jerk reaction.

I do not envy the world leaders right now, in finding the solution of how to balance realising people are dying and will die against showing restraint to save many more lives.

Where is that line drawn and why? It is a true tragedy any way you spin it.

I said >>As nobody seems to be interested in this war, I will not post on it further.<< From that quote and the basis of all the crap aimed in my direction. The word is interested, NOT care or anything else.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 19:29:19
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1879005
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bayraktar TB2 drones have destroyed two more Russian Raptor patrol boats. They now only have one of these boats left in the Black Sea.

Big! Bayraktar TB2 drone hit 2 Russian Raptor class patrol boats, reportedly near Snake Island

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ycGNm9vXVU

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 19:33:14
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1879006
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Michael V said:


PermeateFree said:

dv said:

Yet it is. It remains one of the top four topics here day in day out.

There has been little to no serious discussion about the Ukraine/Russian war here for quite some time. I spend 2-3 hours daily checking the outcomes and I don’t recall getting any leads from here to follow up.

Here’s one.

https://kyivindependent.com/news-archive/

Where was that hidden, in chat and lost under the avalanche of minor world problems and major forum ones.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 19:36:26
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1879007
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


monkey skipper said:

PermeateFree said:

There has been little to no serious discussion about the Ukraine/Russian war here for quite some time. I spend 2-3 hours daily checking the outcomes and I don’t recall getting any leads from here to follow up.

People care, it is a balancing act and, a decision that weighs heavily on the world leaders in how to tread there would be no doubt about that.

The threat of nuclear war is very real right now. The best way to help Ukraine is to provide options for those fleeing and feed through armory to help bolster their defense, they are digging in because it literally is life of death.

There is a global responsibility too and that is to find the way to end this war without massacring nations of people in surrounding regions because of a knee jerk reaction.

I do not envy the world leaders right now, in finding the solution of how to balance realising people are dying and will die against showing restraint to save many more lives.

Where is that line drawn and why? It is a true tragedy any way you spin it.

I said >>As nobody seems to be interested in this war, I will not post on it further.<< From that quote and the basis of all the crap aimed in my direction. The word is interested, NOT care or anything else.

Sure

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 19:37:50
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1879008
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

monkey skipper said:


PermeateFree said:

monkey skipper said:

People care, it is a balancing act and, a decision that weighs heavily on the world leaders in how to tread there would be no doubt about that.

The threat of nuclear war is very real right now. The best way to help Ukraine is to provide options for those fleeing and feed through armory to help bolster their defense, they are digging in because it literally is life of death.

There is a global responsibility too and that is to find the way to end this war without massacring nations of people in surrounding regions because of a knee jerk reaction.

I do not envy the world leaders right now, in finding the solution of how to balance realising people are dying and will die against showing restraint to save many more lives.

Where is that line drawn and why? It is a true tragedy any way you spin it.

I said >>As nobody seems to be interested in this war, I will not post on it further.<< From that quote and the basis of all the crap aimed in my direction. The word is interested, NOT care or anything else.

Sure

What do you mean by that?

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 19:40:12
From: Boris
ID: 1879011
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


Michael V said:

PermeateFree said:

There has been little to no serious discussion about the Ukraine/Russian war here for quite some time. I spend 2-3 hours daily checking the outcomes and I don’t recall getting any leads from here to follow up.

Here’s one.

https://kyivindependent.com/news-archive/

Where was that hidden, in chat and lost under the avalanche of minor world problems and major forum ones.

I would imagine it is a first time mention. You didn’t recall getting any leads from here so I think MV provided you with one.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 19:43:09
From: dv
ID: 1879015
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

You did say you weren’t going to post on it any further. Another election promise broken.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 19:46:44
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1879019
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Not being experts, we’re not providing in-depth analysis here, just passing comments and news bites.

I, for one, can only take the Ukraine war coverage in small doses. It’s too harrowing and depressing, particularly as I have family connections.

But Ukraine is holding out and the Russian invasion, which always looked frankly insane, is now looking increasingly doomed.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 19:55:08
From: party_pants
ID: 1879020
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

I have been following the military developments and the technical details. I find the human details a bit too disturbing to read. I find myself thinking about it the whole day otherwise, and it affects my mood.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 19:57:52
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1879021
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


You did say you weren’t going to post on it any further. Another election promise broken.

Don’t think I have mentioned the war, only fending off the self-righteous.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 20:01:23
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1879022
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


dv said:

You did say you weren’t going to post on it any further. Another election promise broken.

Don’t think I have mentioned the war, only fending off the self-righteous.

Wasn’t your passive-aggressive complaint of forum disinterest the very definition of self-righteousness?

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 20:05:42
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1879024
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Witty Rejoinder said:


PermeateFree said:

dv said:

You did say you weren’t going to post on it any further. Another election promise broken.

Don’t think I have mentioned the war, only fending off the self-righteous.

Wasn’t your passive-aggressive complaint of forum disinterest the very definition of self-righteousness?

You are obviously reading a great deal into my short comment, so you would know more than me, but I must admit I do get a little pissed off by inane remarks of serious subjects, but you should all know that by now.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 20:09:18
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1879025
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


Witty Rejoinder said:

PermeateFree said:

Don’t think I have mentioned the war, only fending off the self-righteous.

Wasn’t your passive-aggressive complaint of forum disinterest the very definition of self-righteousness?

You are obviously reading a great deal into my short comment, so you would know more than me, but I must admit I do get a little pissed off by inane remarks of serious subjects, but you should all know that by now.

Perhaps the best way to gracefully leave a thread is to just leave it.
The end.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 20:10:52
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1879026
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Spiny Norman said:


PermeateFree said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Wasn’t your passive-aggressive complaint of forum disinterest the very definition of self-righteousness?

You are obviously reading a great deal into my short comment, so you would know more than me, but I must admit I do get a little pissed off by inane remarks of serious subjects, but you should all know that by now.

Perhaps the best way to gracefully leave a thread is to just leave it.
The end.

No, it is always fun to kick an aggressive ant’s nest.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 20:18:57
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1879031
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:

monkey skipper said:

PermeateFree said:

I said >>As nobody seems to be interested in this war, I will not post on it further.<< From that quote and the basis of all the crap aimed in my direction. The word is interested, NOT care or anything else.

Sure

What do you mean by that?

well what we mean is, whether people present as interested or not, is a different thing to whether they seem interested to PermeateFree or not

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 20:21:54
From: dv
ID: 1879032
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


Spiny Norman said:

PermeateFree said:

You are obviously reading a great deal into my short comment, so you would know more than me, but I must admit I do get a little pissed off by inane remarks of serious subjects, but you should all know that by now.

Perhaps the best way to gracefully leave a thread is to just leave it.
The end.

No, it is always fun to kick an aggressive ant’s nest.

Interesting (takes notes)

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 20:24:15
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1879033
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:

Spiny Norman said:

PermeateFree said:

You are obviously reading a great deal into my short comment, so you would know more than me, but I must admit I do get a little pissed off by inane remarks of serious subjects, but you should all know that by now.

Perhaps the best way to gracefully leave a thread is to just leave it.
The end.

No, it is always fun to kick an aggressive ant’s nest.

so this is the famous PermeateFree who so valiantly defends the rights of big sexy mammals to have their own unadulterated natural Earth but when it comes to some poor native arthropods just trying to defend their territory from continual assaults

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 20:29:12
From: transition
ID: 1879038
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


Spiny Norman said:

PermeateFree said:

You are obviously reading a great deal into my short comment, so you would know more than me, but I must admit I do get a little pissed off by inane remarks of serious subjects, but you should all know that by now.

Perhaps the best way to gracefully leave a thread is to just leave it.
The end.

No, it is always fun to kick an aggressive ant’s nest.

probably assume people do think about the subject a bit more then is evident in here, and read more than is evident, and imagine more, working imagination you know, just not looking for intense engagement on the subject, not wanting to start another war, not looking to do too much damage to the home in their own heads, more just like to keep it to mundane housekeeping

of course everyone has days where they feel a bit washed out maybe, the wallpaper might be peeling off, the cat’s meowing, those sort of serious troubles a good sleep won’t fix

and thank God for hobbies

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 20:44:40
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1879047
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:


PermeateFree said:

monkey skipper said:

Sure

What do you mean by that?

well what we mean is, whether people present as interested or not, is a different thing to whether they seem interested to PermeateFree or not

You ought to reflect Science, because you are not much better liked here than me and the ones who offer the odd pleasantry just what to use you. Personally I would rather be disliked by all than to be manipulated like you, at least I know where I stand.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 20:45:57
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1879048
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:

PermeateFree said:

Spiny Norman said:

Perhaps the best way to gracefully leave a thread is to just leave it.
The end.

No, it is always fun to kick an aggressive ant’s nest.

so this is the famous PermeateFree who so valiantly defends the rights of big sexy mammals to have their own unadulterated natural Earth but when it comes to some poor native arthropods just trying to defend their territory from continual assaults

Must admit you do remind me of them.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 20:49:03
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1879049
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

transition said:


PermeateFree said:

Spiny Norman said:

Perhaps the best way to gracefully leave a thread is to just leave it.
The end.

No, it is always fun to kick an aggressive ant’s nest.

probably assume people do think about the subject a bit more then is evident in here, and read more than is evident, and imagine more, working imagination you know, just not looking for intense engagement on the subject, not wanting to start another war, not looking to do too much damage to the home in their own heads, more just like to keep it to mundane housekeeping

of course everyone has days where they feel a bit washed out maybe, the wallpaper might be peeling off, the cat’s meowing, those sort of serious troubles a good sleep won’t fix

and thank God for hobbies

Just what do you expect from a bunch of obese armchair experts?

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 20:51:22
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1879051
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


transition said:

PermeateFree said:

No, it is always fun to kick an aggressive ant’s nest.

probably assume people do think about the subject a bit more then is evident in here, and read more than is evident, and imagine more, working imagination you know, just not looking for intense engagement on the subject, not wanting to start another war, not looking to do too much damage to the home in their own heads, more just like to keep it to mundane housekeeping

of course everyone has days where they feel a bit washed out maybe, the wallpaper might be peeling off, the cat’s meowing, those sort of serious troubles a good sleep won’t fix

and thank God for hobbies

Just what do you expect from a bunch of obese armchair experts?

Could you please stop spamming this thread with your hurt ego shit?

Thank you.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 21:00:32
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1879056
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


PermeateFree said:

transition said:

probably assume people do think about the subject a bit more then is evident in here, and read more than is evident, and imagine more, working imagination you know, just not looking for intense engagement on the subject, not wanting to start another war, not looking to do too much damage to the home in their own heads, more just like to keep it to mundane housekeeping

of course everyone has days where they feel a bit washed out maybe, the wallpaper might be peeling off, the cat’s meowing, those sort of serious troubles a good sleep won’t fix

and thank God for hobbies

Just what do you expect from a bunch of obese armchair experts?

Could you please stop spamming this thread with your hurt ego shit?

Thank you.

I’m not hurt, just having fun amongst the big fish in the little pond. Anyway don’t think you should talk with the way you express yourself when someone disagrees with your rather aged opinions.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 21:06:05
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1879060
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

50 % of French nuclear powerstations being shut down for maintenance

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 21:07:15
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1879061
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Locomotive transformer stations being knocked out – heading towards zero trains on network

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 21:08:34
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1879063
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Gas / oil contracts coming to end September ish.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 21:08:47
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1879064
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Winter is coming

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 21:10:00
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1879065
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Europe needs to win the war before the winter comes.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 21:11:37
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1879067
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

wookiemeister said:


Winter is coming

Summer in Europe.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 21:13:16
From: dv
ID: 1879068
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

wookiemeister said:


Locomotive transformer stations being knocked out – heading towards zero trains on network

What?

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 21:13:41
From: dv
ID: 1879069
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

wookiemeister said:


Winter is coming

Europe is in the northern hemisphere

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 21:15:12
From: party_pants
ID: 1879070
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

wookiemeister said:


Winter is coming

No. Summer is coming in the NH.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 21:15:51
From: party_pants
ID: 1879071
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

stands down

.. as you were

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 21:16:48
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1879072
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

party_pants said:


stands down

.. as you were

Wookie is clearly jet-lagged.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 21:20:10
From: Boris
ID: 1879074
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


wookiemeister said:

Winter is coming

Europe is in the northern hemisphere

I think that saying was being said for the figurative intent rather than littoral.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 21:48:57
From: sibeen
ID: 1879079
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Boris said:


dv said:

wookiemeister said:

Winter is coming

Europe is in the northern hemisphere

I think that saying was being said for the figurative intent rather than littoral.

Shore.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 21:52:45
From: Boris
ID: 1879080
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

sibeen said:


Boris said:

dv said:

Europe is in the northern hemisphere

I think that saying was being said for the figurative intent rather than littoral.

Shore.

you can bank on it.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 22:10:07
From: dv
ID: 1879081
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Germany to support Russian oil embargo: sources

EU leaders are expected to present the proposed embargo later this week. Supporting the measure would be Germany’s second turnaround in as many weeks with regards to Ukraine.

The European Union is planning a new raft of sanctions against Russia, Brussels insiders told reporters on Sunday. These new penalties are likely to include a bloc-wide embargo of Russian oil.

https://m.dw.com/en/germany-to-support-russian-oil-embargo-sources/a-61650237

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 22:13:26
From: party_pants
ID: 1879082
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


Germany to support Russian oil embargo: sources

EU leaders are expected to present the proposed embargo later this week. Supporting the measure would be Germany’s second turnaround in as many weeks with regards to Ukraine.

The European Union is planning a new raft of sanctions against Russia, Brussels insiders told reporters on Sunday. These new penalties are likely to include a bloc-wide embargo of Russian oil.

https://m.dw.com/en/germany-to-support-russian-oil-embargo-sources/a-61650237

They’ll need to start building LNG terminals along to coast very soon. And LNG ships too.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 22:16:45
From: sibeen
ID: 1879083
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

party_pants said:


dv said:

Germany to support Russian oil embargo: sources

EU leaders are expected to present the proposed embargo later this week. Supporting the measure would be Germany’s second turnaround in as many weeks with regards to Ukraine.

The European Union is planning a new raft of sanctions against Russia, Brussels insiders told reporters on Sunday. These new penalties are likely to include a bloc-wide embargo of Russian oil.

https://m.dw.com/en/germany-to-support-russian-oil-embargo-sources/a-61650237

They’ll need to start building LNG terminals along to coast very soon. And LNG ships too.

Coal is where it’s at.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/05/2022 23:11:00
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1879085
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

I made it about half way through, but here is an interesting interview with a Russian POW and his father.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjhfQrtuJ-A&ab_channel=RussiagoawayfromUkraine

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2022 00:07:32
From: dv
ID: 1879089
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said over the weekend that Nazi dictator Adolf Hitler had “Jewish blood,” prompting a furious response from Israel on Monday.

Lavrov made the comments on Italian television on Sunday, repeating Russia’s claim that its invasion of Ukraine is to “de-Nazify” the country.

He shrugged off the fact that Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelensky is Jewish.


“He puts forward an argument: what kind of Nazism can they have if he is a Jew. I may be wrong, but Hitler also had Jewish blood. It means absolutely nothing. The wise Jewish people say that the most ardent anti-Semites are usually Jews,” Lavrov said.

Israel’s Foreign Ministry summoned the Russian Ambassador to Israel on Monday over Lavrov’s remarks.

https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-05-02-22/h_47108b656f24699854d3046e87800c15

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2022 01:06:21
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1879099
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


SCIENCE said:

PermeateFree said:

No, it is always fun to kick an aggressive ant’s nest.

so this is the famous PermeateFree who so valiantly defends the rights of big sexy mammals to have their own unadulterated natural Earth but when it comes to some poor native arthropods just trying to defend their territory from continual assaults

Must admit you do remind me of them.

so you agree

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2022 01:07:04
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1879100
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:

SCIENCE said:

PermeateFree said:

What do you mean by that?

well what we mean is, whether people present as interested or not, is a different thing to whether they seem interested to PermeateFree or not

You ought to reflect Science, because you are not much better liked here than me and the ones who offer the odd pleasantry just what to use you. Personally I would rather be disliked by all than to be manipulated like you, at least I know where I stand.

surprisingly enough if you actually read anything we’ve contributed you’d recognise that we’re merely here to inform so you keep trying

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2022 01:48:43
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1879107
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:

PermeateFree said:

SCIENCE said:

well what we mean is, whether people present as interested or not, is a different thing to whether they seem interested to PermeateFree or not

You ought to reflect Science, because you are not much better liked here than me and the ones who offer the odd pleasantry just what to use you. Personally I would rather be disliked by all than to be manipulated like you, at least I know where I stand.

surprisingly enough if you actually read anything we’ve contributed you’d recognise that we’re merely here to inform so you keep trying

Sorry, I have no idea what that means, would you please translate.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2022 01:50:53
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1879108
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:


PermeateFree said:

SCIENCE said:

so this is the famous PermeateFree who so valiantly defends the rights of big sexy mammals to have their own unadulterated natural Earth but when it comes to some poor native arthropods just trying to defend their territory from continual assaults

Must admit you do remind me of them.

so you agree

Ah the immortal words of your minder.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2022 02:34:17
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1879111
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


SCIENCE said:

PermeateFree said:

You ought to reflect Science, because you are not much better liked here than me and the ones who offer the odd pleasantry just what to use you. Personally I would rather be disliked by all than to be manipulated like you, at least I know where I stand.

surprisingly enough if you actually read anything we’ve contributed you’d recognise that we’re merely here to inform so you keep trying

Sorry, I have no idea what that means, would you please translate.

yes

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2022 02:34:42
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1879112
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:

SCIENCE said:

PermeateFree said:

Must admit you do remind me of them.

so you agree

Ah the immortal words of your minder.

did you ever use a magnifying glass

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2022 02:44:02
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1879114
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:

PermeateFree said:

SCIENCE said:

so you agree

Ah the immortal words of your minder.

did you ever use a magnifying glass

You need to get out more.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2022 02:49:21
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1879115
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:

SCIENCE said:

PermeateFree said:

Ah the immortal words of your minder.

did you ever use a magnifying glass

You need to get out more.

ah you mean yes with sunlight

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2022 07:11:27
From: Michael V
ID: 1879134
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


Michael V said:

PermeateFree said:

There has been little to no serious discussion about the Ukraine/Russian war here for quite some time. I spend 2-3 hours daily checking the outcomes and I don’t recall getting any leads from here to follow up.

Here’s one.

https://kyivindependent.com/news-archive/

Where was that hidden, in chat and lost under the avalanche of minor world problems and major forum ones.

I’ve used it in this thread to inform.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2022 07:13:57
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1879135
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Commander-in-Chief of the Ukraine Army: “Bayraktar TB2 sent two russian patrol boats to f..k themselves at dawn today. Snakes at Snake Island now have new amusements facilities.”

Video here: https://twitter.com/i/status/1521021192718757893

Them Bayraktar drones are certainly effective tools.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2022 07:17:17
From: Michael V
ID: 1879137
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Boris said:


PermeateFree said:

Michael V said:

Here’s one.

https://kyivindependent.com/news-archive/

Where was that hidden, in chat and lost under the avalanche of minor world problems and major forum ones.

I would imagine it is a first time mention. You didn’t recall getting any leads from here so I think MV provided you with one.

No, it wasn’t.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2022 07:17:36
From: Michael V
ID: 1879138
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


You did say you weren’t going to post on it any further. Another election promise broken.

LOL

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2022 08:31:41
From: Michael V
ID: 1879152
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

“Internet resumes in Kherson, rerouted to Russian control

Twenty-four hours after internet service was disconnected to Ukraine’s Black Sea port of Kherson, which Russian troops seized in early March, it has resumed but is now under Kremlin control, network analysts say.

“Someone must have activated a line from Crimea to Kherson,” said Doug Madory, director of internet analysis for Kentik Inc.

He called the development “eerily similar” to what occurred after Russia annexed Crimea in 2014.

The London-based internet monitor Netblocks also reported the Kherson region’s traffic had been rerouted as of Sunday evening through Russia’s state-controlled Rostelecom after a day-long outage.

On Sunday, Ukrainian officials said internet and cellular communications were cut in a large area of the Kherson region and part of the Zaporizhzhia region and blamed Russia. They attributed the outages to breakages in fibre optic backbone cables and a power outage.

The Ukrainian State Service of Special Communication said the Kremlin had falsely claimed Ukraine’s government had ordered a shutdown.

In a statement, it called the outage “another enemy attempt to leave Ukrainians without access to the true information” and suggested Moscow was preparing to try to cement political control by introducing the Russian ruble as currency and staging a “possible fake referendum”.”

—————————————————————————————————————————————————————
Not a good thing.
—————————————————————————————————————————————————————

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-05-03/ukraine-russia-war-updates-putin-zelenskyy-mariupol-kyiv/101031972

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2022 08:35:36
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1879153
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Michael V said:


“Internet resumes in Kherson, rerouted to Russian control

Twenty-four hours after internet service was disconnected to Ukraine’s Black Sea port of Kherson, which Russian troops seized in early March, it has resumed but is now under Kremlin control, network analysts say.

“Someone must have activated a line from Crimea to Kherson,” said Doug Madory, director of internet analysis for Kentik Inc.

He called the development “eerily similar” to what occurred after Russia annexed Crimea in 2014.

The London-based internet monitor Netblocks also reported the Kherson region’s traffic had been rerouted as of Sunday evening through Russia’s state-controlled Rostelecom after a day-long outage.

On Sunday, Ukrainian officials said internet and cellular communications were cut in a large area of the Kherson region and part of the Zaporizhzhia region and blamed Russia. They attributed the outages to breakages in fibre optic backbone cables and a power outage.

The Ukrainian State Service of Special Communication said the Kremlin had falsely claimed Ukraine’s government had ordered a shutdown.

In a statement, it called the outage “another enemy attempt to leave Ukrainians without access to the true information” and suggested Moscow was preparing to try to cement political control by introducing the Russian ruble as currency and staging a “possible fake referendum”.”

—————————————————————————————————————————————————————
Not a good thing.
—————————————————————————————————————————————————————

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-05-03/ukraine-russia-war-updates-putin-zelenskyy-mariupol-kyiv/101031972

Their PO web site has been down for a couple of weeks now.

http://pm.ukrposhta.ua/

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2022 10:46:46
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1879180
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Speculation that Russia will formally declare war on Ukraine in the next week. What benefits does that give them, and why have they not done so earlier?

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2022 10:54:52
From: Michael V
ID: 1879181
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:

Speculation that Russia will formally declare war on Ukraine in the next week. What benefits does that give them, and why have they not done so earlier?

I have no idea.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2022 10:57:05
From: Tamb
ID: 1879183
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Michael V said:


Dark Orange said:

Speculation that Russia will formally declare war on Ukraine in the next week. What benefits does that give them, and why have they not done so earlier?

I have no idea.


Possibly it might mean that anyone who does not actively support them is an enemy not a civilian,

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2022 11:01:41
From: diddly-squat
ID: 1879186
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:

Speculation that Russia will formally declare war on Ukraine in the next week. What benefits does that give them, and why have they not done so earlier?

I think it allows them different powers around things like conscription and probably also allows them to divert funding

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2022 11:03:23
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1879187
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:

Speculation that Russia will formally declare war on Ukraine in the next week. What benefits does that give them, and why have they not done so earlier?

BECAUSE THEY’VE BEEN KILLING RUSSIAN SOLDIERS.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2022 11:04:17
From: Woodie
ID: 1879188
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

diddly-squat said:


Dark Orange said:

Speculation that Russia will formally declare war on Ukraine in the next week. What benefits does that give them, and why have they not done so earlier?

I think it allows them different powers around things like conscription and probably also allows them to divert funding

Russia has rules about this stuff?

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2022 11:04:38
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1879189
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Tamb said:


Michael V said:

Dark Orange said:

Speculation that Russia will formally declare war on Ukraine in the next week. What benefits does that give them, and why have they not done so earlier?

I have no idea.


Possibly it might mean that anyone who does not actively support them is an enemy not a civilian,

My international law learning is decades old, and i speak from memory of that, but…

…a declaration of war brings in a situation where the laws of war apply, whereas without that the laws of international human rights take precedence. This is balanced somewhat because declaring war invokes the provisions of the Geneva Convention, and the treatment of prisoners and non-combatants has to be then in accord with the Convention.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2022 11:05:45
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1879190
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

diddly-squat said:


Dark Orange said:

Speculation that Russia will formally declare war on Ukraine in the next week. What benefits does that give them, and why have they not done so earlier?

I think it allows them different powers around things like conscription and probably also allows them to divert funding

The effects vary from country to country, depending on what war powers are allocated to what parts of the government.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2022 11:05:54
From: diddly-squat
ID: 1879191
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Woodie said:


diddly-squat said:

Dark Orange said:

Speculation that Russia will formally declare war on Ukraine in the next week. What benefits does that give them, and why have they not done so earlier?

I think it allows them different powers around things like conscription and probably also allows them to divert funding

Russia has rules about this stuff?

undoubtedly

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2022 11:12:01
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1879192
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

One problem for Putin with declaring war would be that it automatically accords Ukraine recognition as a separate state against which war can be legitimately conducted, a status he’s been keen to deny it up until now. He’d have to contradict himself there, and make a nonsense of his claims that it’s really part of Russia.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2022 11:16:24
From: diddly-squat
ID: 1879193
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


One problem for Putin with declaring war would be that it automatically accords Ukraine recognition as a separate state against which war can be legitimately conducted, a status he’s been keen to deny it up until now. He’d have to contradict himself there, and make a nonsense of his claims that it’s really part of Russia.

that’s a really interesting point.. but that said, I’m not sure Putin really gives a shit about international laws or even commonly held norms

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2022 11:17:56
From: dv
ID: 1879194
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back


Russia has a more convoluted procedure or launching nuclear weapons than the USA. Conditions need to be met and approved. In the US the President had absolute discretion and can literally decide to launch on a whim and have the missiles deployed within about ten minutes with no legal way to stop it from happening.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2022 11:20:20
From: Woodie
ID: 1879195
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

diddly-squat said:


captain_spalding said:

One problem for Putin with declaring war would be that it automatically accords Ukraine recognition as a separate state against which war can be legitimately conducted, a status he’s been keen to deny it up until now. He’d have to contradict himself there, and make a nonsense of his claims that it’s really part of Russia.

that’s a really interesting point.. but that said, I’m not sure Putin really gives a shit about international laws or even commonly held norms

Ditto.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2022 11:25:38
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1879197
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

diddly-squat said:


captain_spalding said:

One problem for Putin with declaring war would be that it automatically accords Ukraine recognition as a separate state against which war can be legitimately conducted, a status he’s been keen to deny it up until now. He’d have to contradict himself there, and make a nonsense of his claims that it’s really part of Russia.

that’s a really interesting point.. but that said, I’m not sure Putin really gives a shit about international laws or even commonly held norms

That may well be the case, but if he cares so little for such formalities, he has no need to declare war, he could just deploy and employ whatever forces or weapons he chooses without such fol-de-rol.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2022 11:43:26
From: dv
ID: 1879200
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Chomsky praises Trump as the one Western Statesman pushing for an accommodation with Russia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YeRX6ZYXH0&t=312s

EduKitchen interview with Chomsky

5:47

Fortunately one statesman in the United States and

5:53

Europe who has laid out a person of a high political figure who
has made a very sensible statement about how you can solve the crisis namely

6:07

by facilitating negotiations instead of undermining them and moving towards establishing some kind of accommodation in Europe, maybe a long in which there are no military alliances which is mutual accommodation

6:28

he didn’t say it but it’s something like George HW Bush, the first Bush not the second, proposed in the early 90s when after the collapse of the Soviet Union proposed what they called a Partnership for Peace which would be open for Europeans generally Eurasians as well

6:55

it wouldn’t eliminate nato but he would live up to the promise that Nato would not expand to the east, firm promise to Gorbachev came to that, allow Nato there but kind of de-emphasize it so other countries could join including

7:12

Russia for that matter join the Partnership for Peace, Tajikistan joined for example, not Nato, and moved towards a world a Europe, Eurasia with no military alliances, actually the goal had similar vision as Macron in his initiatives trying to contact Putin

7:37

suggested something similar. So going back to the one western statesman, he didn’t mention all of this, but he suggested something similar move towards negotiations and diplomacy instead of escalating the war, try to see if he can bring about an accommodation, which would be roughly along these lines and his name is Donald J Trump.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2022 11:47:43
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1879202
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

>>maybe a long in which there are

Ah the elusive mystical long.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2022 11:48:38
From: diddly-squat
ID: 1879203
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


diddly-squat said:

captain_spalding said:

One problem for Putin with declaring war would be that it automatically accords Ukraine recognition as a separate state against which war can be legitimately conducted, a status he’s been keen to deny it up until now. He’d have to contradict himself there, and make a nonsense of his claims that it’s really part of Russia.

that’s a really interesting point.. but that said, I’m not sure Putin really gives a shit about international laws or even commonly held norms

That may well be the case, but if he cares so little for such formalities, he has no need to declare war, he could just deploy and employ whatever forces or weapons he chooses without such fol-de-rol.

sure, but like I said.. I think there are probably constitutional impediments for his own government that declaring war will push aside…

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2022 11:55:12
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1879206
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


One problem for Putin with declaring war would be that it automatically accords Ukraine recognition as a separate state against which war can be legitimately conducted, a status he’s been keen to deny it up until now. He’d have to contradict himself there, and make a nonsense of his claims that it’s really part of Russia.

Ah… makes sense.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2022 11:57:04
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1879208
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

diddly-squat said:


captain_spalding said:

diddly-squat said:

that’s a really interesting point.. but that said, I’m not sure Putin really gives a shit about international laws or even commonly held norms

That may well be the case, but if he cares so little for such formalities, he has no need to declare war, he could just deploy and employ whatever forces or weapons he chooses without such fol-de-rol.

sure, but like I said.. I think there are probably constitutional impediments for his own government that declaring war will push aside…

Again, that’s a distinct possibility. An advantage of a declaration is that it does activate whatever wartime powers are permitted under you constitution, giving ‘legitimacy’ to actions you might otherwise to be circumspect about.

That’s supposing that Putin gives more of a damn for Russian laws than he does international laws and conventions, and that he genuinely fears that there could be consequences for him if the doesn’t follow the Russian rules. Is he that worried about giving people a ‘legal’ basis for a coup against him?

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2022 12:07:00
From: diddly-squat
ID: 1879210
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


diddly-squat said:

captain_spalding said:

That may well be the case, but if he cares so little for such formalities, he has no need to declare war, he could just deploy and employ whatever forces or weapons he chooses without such fol-de-rol.

sure, but like I said.. I think there are probably constitutional impediments for his own government that declaring war will push aside…

Again, that’s a distinct possibility. An advantage of a declaration is that it does activate whatever wartime powers are permitted under you constitution, giving ‘legitimacy’ to actions you might otherwise to be circumspect about.

That’s supposing that Putin gives more of a damn for Russian laws than he does international laws and conventions, and that he genuinely fears that there could be consequences for him if the doesn’t follow the Russian rules. Is he that worried about giving people a ‘legal’ basis for a coup against him?

I don’t think he’s scared of Russian (law) repercussions, I just think that if he does declare war, it will becaue it will enable him to, like you said, easily activate wartime powers that are not otherwise available to him without (probably) the formal approval of parliament. He probably doesn’t want the headache of having to legislate changes to constitutional law.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2022 12:11:08
From: diddly-squat
ID: 1879212
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

diddly-squat said:


captain_spalding said:

diddly-squat said:

sure, but like I said.. I think there are probably constitutional impediments for his own government that declaring war will push aside…

Again, that’s a distinct possibility. An advantage of a declaration is that it does activate whatever wartime powers are permitted under you constitution, giving ‘legitimacy’ to actions you might otherwise to be circumspect about.

That’s supposing that Putin gives more of a damn for Russian laws than he does international laws and conventions, and that he genuinely fears that there could be consequences for him if the doesn’t follow the Russian rules. Is he that worried about giving people a ‘legal’ basis for a coup against him?

I don’t think he’s scared of Russian (law) repercussions, I just think that if he does declare war, it will becaue it will enable him to, like you said, easily activate wartime powers that are not otherwise available to him without (probably) the formal approval of parliament. He probably doesn’t want the headache of having to legislate changes to constitutional law.

further to this.. while he doesn’t have to follow international laws/norms, he can’t just undermine his legitimacy as president. We saw this recently when he had changes made to the laws around the roles and responsibilities (as well as term limits) of President and Prime Minister.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2022 12:16:28
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1879214
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

diddly-squat said:


diddly-squat said:

captain_spalding said:

Again, that’s a distinct possibility. An advantage of a declaration is that it does activate whatever wartime powers are permitted under you constitution, giving ‘legitimacy’ to actions you might otherwise to be circumspect about.

That’s supposing that Putin gives more of a damn for Russian laws than he does international laws and conventions, and that he genuinely fears that there could be consequences for him if the doesn’t follow the Russian rules. Is he that worried about giving people a ‘legal’ basis for a coup against him?

I don’t think he’s scared of Russian (law) repercussions, I just think that if he does declare war, it will becaue it will enable him to, like you said, easily activate wartime powers that are not otherwise available to him without (probably) the formal approval of parliament. He probably doesn’t want the headache of having to legislate changes to constitutional law.

further to this.. while he doesn’t have to follow international laws/norms, he can’t just undermine his legitimacy as president. We saw this recently when he had changes made to the laws around the roles and responsibilities (as well as term limits) of President and Prime Minister.

He did that to stop Russia from lapsing into democracy, an old ancient form of governance that many intellectuals say is not fit for modernity.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2022 12:20:21
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1879215
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Peak Warming Man said:

He did that to stop Russia from lapsing into democracy, an old ancient form of governance that many intellectuals say is not fit for modernity.

And, despite whatever constitutional barriers or parliamentary opposition there might have been, he wound up with pretty much all of the changes he wanted.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2022 12:27:18
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1879220
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Peak Warming Man said:

He did that to stop Russia from lapsing into democracy, an old ancient form of governance that many intellectuals say is not fit for modernity.

And, despite whatever constitutional barriers or parliamentary opposition there might have been, he wound up with pretty much all of the changes he wanted.

What sort of authoritarian would Putin be if he staged an election/referendum where the result wasn’t known in advance?

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2022 12:33:26
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1879222
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Another interesting interview with a Russian POW. I’m not a fan of the interviewer’s style of using the poor sod as bait to give him an opportunity to lay the boot into the emotional relative, but the stories from the POWs are very interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHQFi7BMZEo&ab_channel=RussiagoawayfromUkraine

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2022 15:03:24
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1879250
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

It’s the little things:

https://twitter.com/TrentTelenko/status/1521182849000423426

tl;dnr

It looks like the Russians are running out of tyres for their front line equipment.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2022 15:21:52
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1879260
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:

It’s the little things:

https://twitter.com/TrentTelenko/status/1521182849000423426

tl;dnr

It looks like the Russians are running out of tyres for their front line equipment.

Perceptions of what’s ‘vital equipment’ can vary.

Viet Cong and their sympathisers would steal wiper blades from American trucks in the monsoon season.

For a Vetnamese truck, especially a VC/NVA transport, with a long and tenuous supply line, this could render a truck undrivable in the torrential rains.

But, the Americans could replace the blades just like that.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2022 15:58:01
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1879280
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Dark Orange said:

It’s the little things:

https://twitter.com/TrentTelenko/status/1521182849000423426

tl;dnr

It looks like the Russians are running out of tyres for their front line equipment.

Perceptions of what’s ‘vital equipment’ can vary.

Viet Cong and their sympathisers would steal wiper blades from American trucks in the monsoon season.

For a Vetnamese truck, especially a VC/NVA transport, with a long and tenuous supply line, this could render a truck undrivable in the torrential rains.

But, the Americans could replace the blades just like that.

Cheap Chinese tires have been blamed for a Russian convoy of armoured vehicles being unable to reach Kyiv.

Yesterday, the Ministry of Defence issued an update revealing that a convoy of Russian tanks advancing on the capital of Ukraine remained 30km from the centre of the city having made little progress over the previous three days because of “Ukranian resistance, mechanical breakdown and congestion.”

Karl Muth, an academic based at the University of Chicago and a self-described tire expert, took to Twitter to set out a theory blaming cheap Chinese tires for the slow advance of Russian vehicles.

“Those aren’t Soviet-era heavy truck radials,” Muth said, commenting on a photo of a Russian army vehicle with ripped tires.

Instead Muth believes the trucks use “Chinese military tires, and I believe specifically the Yellow Sea YS20.”

“This is a tire I first encountered in Somalia and Sudan. it’s a bad Chinese copy of the excellent Michelin XZL military tire design,” he continued.

Former pentagon staff member Trent Telenko also got stuck into the debate and said “poor Russian army truck maintenance practices” has created a risk of equipment failure.

“When you leave military truck tires in one place for months on end. The side walls get rotted/brittle such that using low tire pressure setting for any appreciable distance will cause the tires to fail catastrophically via rips,” Telenko said.

Bit of a tire expert here. Those aren’t Soviet-era heavy truck radials. Chinese military tires, and I believe specifically the Yellow Sea YS20. This is a tire I first encountered in Somalia and Sudan; it’s a bad Chinese copy of the excellent Michelin XZL military tire design. 🇫🇷

— Karl T. Muth 🌐✈️📊 (@KarlMuth) March 3, 2022
“There is a huge operational level implication in this,” Telenko continued, pointing out that the equipment is too fragile to cope with muddy terrain forcing the Russian convoy to stick to raised paths.

https://www.cityam.com/cheap-chinese-tires-blamed-as-russian-convoy-unable-to-reach-kyiv/

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2022 16:16:41
From: Michael V
ID: 1879285
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:

It’s the little things:

https://twitter.com/TrentTelenko/status/1521182849000423426

tl;dnr

It looks like the Russians are running out of tyres for their front line equipment.

Oh good.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2022 16:19:15
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1879286
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Opinion How Russia’s grim demographics could thwart Putin’s global ambitions
By Nicholas Eberstadt
April 29, 2022 at 8:00 a.m. EDT

The Russian army’s strangely stumble-footed invasion of Ukraine is only the latest reminder of the pervasive and long-standing “human resource” woes that frustrate Vladimir Putin’s aspirations for superpower status. Russian military tactics and field performance may improve, but the greater demographic constraints on Putin’s ambitions are unforgiving. In the coming years, those constraints will brutally ratchet down the Kremlin’s options.

With vast territory and abundant mineral reserves, Russia since the days of the czars has banked upon parlaying natural wealth into geopolitical power. The strategy of becoming an “energy superpower” was always a dubious one, but especially so today. Putin is flailing against the history of modern economic development. The wealth of modern nations is overwhelmingly generated by human beings and their capabilities. Natural resources (land, energy and all the rest) have accounted for a shrinking share of global output for the past two centuries, with no end in sight.

Thus, for all its vaunted oil and gas riches, Russia’s export earnings last year were actually lower than Belgium’s. Like other Western democracies, Belgium manages to augment and unlock the economic value residing in human beings. Putin’s petro-kleptocracy is woefully inept on both counts.

When Putin does pay attention to demography, he obsesses over headcounts — for him, “capitas” are more important than “per capitas.” He fixates on raising birthrates and seizing neighboring territory instead of enhancing the capabilities and productivity of his entire population.

Russia is depopulating — even after Putin’s annexation of Crimea in 2014, its total numbers are lower today than when the Soviet Union collapsed. Russia’s working-age population and its pool of prospective 18-year-old conscripts are also falling. Shrinking societies can prosper, as Germany and Japan have shown. Kremlin policies all but preclude that path for Russia.

It is not that Russia lacks talented, enterprising, impressive people, as anyone who has spent time there knows. Nor does it suffer a shortage of formal education. According to one major global assessment, mean years of schooling for Russia’s working-age (15-64) population were comparable in 2015 to levels in Denmark, France and Sweden, and well above those in Austria and New Zealand. The problem is that Russia has somehow managed to create a high-education, low-human-capital society. The syndrome was evident under the Soviets, but it is even more acute under Putin’s malign rule.

Consider the sweeping dimensions of Russia’s developmental fail:

In 2019, according to the World Health Organization, overall Russian life expectancy at age 15 (male and female combined) was lower than in Sudan or Bhutan — places designated by the United Nations as “least developed countries.”
Urbanization increases human productivity, bringing development gains all around the world, but somehow Russia’s ratio of city dwellers to the general population has stagnated for decades. In shrinking societies such as Germany and Japan, by contrast, both urban population and urbanization ratios have risen.

Despite Russia’s large and formidable cadre of highly educated working-age men and women, commercially valuable “knowledge production” appears to be marginal today. According to the U.N. World Intellectual Property Organization, Russia accounted for less than one-half of 1 percent of international patent applications in 2019. And Russia’s “patent yield” — international patent applications divided by working-age population with higher education — was far below South Africa’s.

Russia’s record of creating value out of its human resources is miserable. It has the world’s ninth-largest population, but its exports of commercial services — marketed knowledge and skills, such as banking or insurance — ranked 26th in 2019, behind both Thailand and Turkey. Since the invasion of Ukraine, some of Russia’s best talent has been voting with its feet, heading abroad any way it can.
National wealth is indispensable to state power and human well-being, but the Russian system produces remarkably little private wealth. According to Credit Suisse, total private wealth in Russia in 2020 amounted to $3 trillion: one-ninth of Japan’s, one-sixth of Germany’s, and scarcely more than Sweden’s (a country with a population 14 times smaller).

Meanwhile, much of the rest of the world beyond Russia’s borders is speeding ahead with improvements in health, education, innovation and wealth. Russia’s dire basic demographic problems are relatively well-known — its declining prospective global shares of total population, working-age manpower, etc. But the demography of Russia’s squandered human potential darkens its prospects further still.

Putin’s recognition of this dismal reality may have stoked his appetite for ever-greater risk-taking in Georgia, Crimea and now Ukraine. His nuclear saber-rattling is the tactic of a leader playing a weakening hand. An open and liberal Russia could still prosper, but it cannot become a normal country under the rule of a petro-kleptocracy.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/04/29/russian-demographics-thwart-putin-ambitions/?

Reply Quote

Date: 5/05/2022 23:36:51
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1880086
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

I think the tide has turned. The Russians are running out of resources, and the Ukrainians are getting stronger. Almost all of the 90 x M777 howitzers promised by the US are on the ground and in use. And according to the videos I have seen, they are being used extremely effectively.

In addition, Germany are finally sending 7 x Panzerhaubitze 2000 armoured howitzers.

It will be an interesting week.

Reply Quote

Date: 5/05/2022 23:39:40
From: furious
ID: 1880088
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:

I think the tide has turned. The Russians are running out of resources, and the Ukrainians are getting stronger. Almost all of the 90 x M777 howitzers promised by the US are on the ground and in use. And according to the videos I have seen, they are being used extremely effectively.

In addition, Germany are finally sending 7 x Panzerhaubitze 2000 armoured howitzers.

It will be an interesting week.

Get ready for the tactical nukes…

Reply Quote

Date: 6/05/2022 07:47:32
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1880141
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

A lengthy read, but interesting and revealing:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/05/putin-war-propaganda-russian-support/629714/

Reply Quote

Date: 6/05/2022 08:21:39
From: roughbarked
ID: 1880147
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

furious said:


Dark Orange said:

I think the tide has turned. The Russians are running out of resources, and the Ukrainians are getting stronger. Almost all of the 90 x M777 howitzers promised by the US are on the ground and in use. And according to the videos I have seen, they are being used extremely effectively.

In addition, Germany are finally sending 7 x Panzerhaubitze 2000 armoured howitzers.

It will be an interesting week.

Get ready for the tactical nukes…

Former US Army Vice Chief of Staff General Jack Keane says he doesn’t think the chances of Russia using strategic nuclear weapons are very high.

“Even though they’ve been communicating something like that on state television,” he told Sky News host Andrew Bolt.

“It’s pretty outrageous, I’ve never seen anything quite like it – in my mind – since we’ve had these nuclear weapons, to have a country actually threaten the use of them like that and do it on state television.

“The United States, Britain and France – we have a significant strategic nuclear deterrence that would certainly force Russia to think twice about ever using weapons like that.”

Reply Quote

Date: 7/05/2022 07:25:24
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1880442
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

The Ukrainians claim to have hit the Admiral Makarov (An Admiral Grigorovich-class frigate) with one of their Neptune missiles while it was stationed off Snake Island and that it is currently on fire.

That would be pretty embarrassing for the Russians if true, considering the ship was only commissioned in December 2017.

Reply Quote

Date: 7/05/2022 07:29:19
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1880445
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:

The Ukrainians claim to have hit the Admiral Makarov (An Admiral Grigorovich-class frigate) with one of their Neptune missiles while it was stationed off Snake Island and that it is currently on fire.

That would be pretty embarrassing for the Russians if true, considering the ship was only commissioned in December 2017.

New ships are only as good as their equipment, weapons, and the people who serve in them make them.

Even if it was commissioned this year, ‘newness’ is no guarantee of survivability.

Reply Quote

Date: 7/05/2022 07:35:28
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1880447
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Dark Orange said:

The Ukrainians claim to have hit the Admiral Makarov (An Admiral Grigorovich-class frigate) with one of their Neptune missiles while it was stationed off Snake Island and that it is currently on fire.

That would be pretty embarrassing for the Russians if true, considering the ship was only commissioned in December 2017.

New ships are only as good as their equipment, weapons, and the people who serve in them make them.

Even if it was commissioned this year, ‘newness’ is no guarantee of survivability.

But newness suggests that rather than being a clapped out rust bucket, it has a good captain and crew and the latest toys to play with so is less likely to be taken out of play by a country without a navy.

Reply Quote

Date: 7/05/2022 08:39:48
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1880469
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:


captain_spalding said:

Dark Orange said:

The Ukrainians claim to have hit the Admiral Makarov (An Admiral Grigorovich-class frigate) with one of their Neptune missiles while it was stationed off Snake Island and that it is currently on fire.

That would be pretty embarrassing for the Russians if true, considering the ship was only commissioned in December 2017.

New ships are only as good as their equipment, weapons, and the people who serve in them make them.

Even if it was commissioned this year, ‘newness’ is no guarantee of survivability.

But newness suggests that rather than being a clapped out rust bucket, it has a good captain and crew and the latest toys to play with so is less likely to be taken out of play by a country without a navy.

Yes, i get what you mean.

But, war is a frightfully random business.

So much depends on being in the right/wrong place at the right/wrong time, and whether or not you were/weren’t doing the right thing at that time.

Reply Quote

Date: 7/05/2022 13:18:03
From: dv
ID: 1880581
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

The blue areas represent recaptured territory near Kharkiv

Reply Quote

Date: 8/05/2022 09:28:19
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1880837
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Russians have released a photo of an Admiral Grigorovich-class frigate at Sevastopolwith the numbers painted over and are claiming it is the Admiral Makarov. Not particularly convincing.

Meanwhile, Ukraine’s air force is still active, as this drone footage shows.

https://twitter.com/OAlexanderDK/status/1522871975185874944

Reply Quote

Date: 8/05/2022 09:44:15
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1880845
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:

Russians have released a photo of an Admiral Grigorovich-class frigate at Sevastopolwith the numbers painted over and are claiming it is the Admiral Makarov. Not particularly convincing.

Meanwhile, Ukraine’s air force is still active, as this drone footage shows.

https://twitter.com/OAlexanderDK/status/1522871975185874944

I can’t see any drone footage on that page.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/05/2022 09:56:38
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1880853
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:

Russians have released a photo of an Admiral Grigorovich-class frigate at Sevastopolwith the numbers painted over and are claiming it is the Admiral Makarov. Not particularly convincing.

Meanwhile, Ukraine’s air force is still active, as this drone footage shows.

https://twitter.com/OAlexanderDK/status/1522871975185874944

You can never be sure with the Russians.

The Soviet/Russian navy were/are infamous for changing the ‘pennant numbers’ (what you see on the hulls) of their warships, as a confusion tactic.

Not showing any numbers is a bit more dodgy than usual, though.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/05/2022 10:01:06
From: party_pants
ID: 1880856
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Dark Orange said:

Russians have released a photo of an Admiral Grigorovich-class frigate at Sevastopolwith the numbers painted over and are claiming it is the Admiral Makarov. Not particularly convincing.

Meanwhile, Ukraine’s air force is still active, as this drone footage shows.

https://twitter.com/OAlexanderDK/status/1522871975185874944

You can never be sure with the Russians.

The Soviet/Russian navy were/are infamous for changing the ‘pennant numbers’ (what you see on the hulls) of their warships, as a confusion tactic.

Not showing any numbers is a bit more dodgy than usual, though.

those sneaky Russians

Reply Quote

Date: 8/05/2022 10:24:48
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1880880
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

“Ukraine-Russia war live: Odesa hit by six missile strikes as Ukrainian forces continue their advance towards Kharkiv”

I didn’t know that Kharkiv had fallen.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/05/2022 14:57:57
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1881017
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


Dark Orange said:

Russians have released a photo of an Admiral Grigorovich-class frigate at Sevastopolwith the numbers painted over and are claiming it is the Admiral Makarov. Not particularly convincing.

Meanwhile, Ukraine’s air force is still active, as this drone footage shows.

https://twitter.com/OAlexanderDK/status/1522871975185874944

I can’t see any drone footage on that page.

oops…

https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1523027490230444035

Reply Quote

Date: 8/05/2022 15:00:11
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1881021
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:


Bubblecar said:

Dark Orange said:

Russians have released a photo of an Admiral Grigorovich-class frigate at Sevastopolwith the numbers painted over and are claiming it is the Admiral Makarov. Not particularly convincing.

Meanwhile, Ukraine’s air force is still active, as this drone footage shows.

https://twitter.com/OAlexanderDK/status/1522871975185874944

I can’t see any drone footage on that page.

oops…

https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1523027490230444035

Well done those jets.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/05/2022 15:04:50
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1881023
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


Dark Orange said:

Bubblecar said:

I can’t see any drone footage on that page.

oops…

https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1523027490230444035

Well done those jets.

Looked like big secondary explosions at both strike sites. They must have hit what they were after.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/05/2022 15:08:55
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1881025
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Bubblecar said:

Dark Orange said:

oops…

https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1523027490230444035

Well done those jets.

Looked like big secondary explosions at both strike sites. They must have hit what they were after.

It shows just how much of a role both intelligence gathering (The US are passing on lots of info) and air superiority (The US have none) play in modern warfare.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/05/2022 15:10:45
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1881027
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Bubblecar said:

Dark Orange said:

oops…

https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1523027490230444035

Well done those jets.

Looked like big secondary explosions at both strike sites. They must have hit what they were after.

Nicely done by the two planes. They each dumped some chaff & flares very shortly after weapons release, that’s good defence.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/05/2022 15:38:43
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1881037
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Spiny Norman said:


captain_spalding said:

Bubblecar said:

Well done those jets.

Looked like big secondary explosions at both strike sites. They must have hit what they were after.

Nicely done by the two planes. They each dumped some chaff & flares very shortly after weapons release, that’s good defence.

Looking at that footage, that main explosion was happening before the planes appeared in frame, where each plane launched a single missile causing the next two explosions. So that looks like either these were a second and third plane, or they were coming back for a second pass.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/05/2022 15:46:04
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1881042
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Looks like there was no air defence.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/05/2022 15:50:22
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1881047
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Spiny Norman said:

Nicely done by the two planes. They each dumped some chaff & flares very shortly after weapons release, that’s good defence.

They were economical with the IR flares. Popped one or two where i’d have thought six, eight, or ten a good idea.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/05/2022 15:51:29
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1881050
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:


…or they were coming back for a second pass.

Big, big rule in A2G: don’t go back for another go.

Lots of people have died that way.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/05/2022 15:57:59
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1881051
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

The only media reports I’ve heard about Snake Is. is when the defenders were asked to surrender they told the Russians to fuck off.
Never heard it at fallen to the Russians.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/05/2022 16:07:12
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1881053
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

…and here is footage of a drone allegedly destroying a landing ship resupplying Snake Island:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10792327/Drone-destroys-Russian-landing-ship-supplying-anti-aircraft-missiles-troops-Snake-Island.html

Note the lack of urgency involved in the unloading process suggesting they had no idea a drone was loitering.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/05/2022 16:07:47
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1881054
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Peak Warming Man said:


Looks like there was no air defence.

Indeed. None at all.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/05/2022 16:09:29
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1881055
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Dark Orange said:

…or they were coming back for a second pass.

Big, big rule in A2G: don’t go back for another go.

Lots of people have died that way.

So the initial explosion – a previous plane, a drone strike, or the Ukrainians knew there was no functional AA system on theisland?

Reply Quote

Date: 8/05/2022 16:13:59
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1881056
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Peak Warming Man said:


The only media reports I’ve heard about Snake Is. is when the defenders were asked to surrender they told the Russians to fuck off.
Never heard it at fallen to the Russians.

They took the island and the surviving Ukrainian troops were taken prisoner and exchanged at a later date. The actual soldier who passed that message on to the Russian warship received a shiny medal and the Ukrainians released a postage stamp about it. Three days after the stamp release, the Ukrainians again sent the message by sinking the Russian warship involved.

During this time, I ordered a bunch of the stamps but the Russian postal service web site has gone offline.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/05/2022 16:16:35
From: Bogsnorkler
ID: 1881057
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:


captain_spalding said:

Dark Orange said:

…or they were coming back for a second pass.

Big, big rule in A2G: don’t go back for another go.

Lots of people have died that way.

So the initial explosion – a previous plane, a drone strike, or the Ukrainians knew there was no functional AA system on theisland?

the landing barge vid also showed a building targeted by a drone so it was that most likely smoking.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/05/2022 16:25:47
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1881058
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Recently arrived heavy artillery that is very accurate are pushing the Russians back in the mid eastern region of Ukraine.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/05/2022 16:26:09
From: sibeen
ID: 1881059
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:


Peak Warming Man said:

The only media reports I’ve heard about Snake Is. is when the defenders were asked to surrender they told the Russians to fuck off.
Never heard it at fallen to the Russians.

They took the island and the surviving Ukrainian troops were taken prisoner and exchanged at a later date. The actual soldier who passed that message on to the Russian warship received a shiny medal and the Ukrainians released a postage stamp about it. Three days after the stamp release, the Ukrainians again sent the message by sinking the Russian warship involved.

During this time, I ordered a bunch of the stamps but the Russian postal service web site has gone offline.

The Russian postal service?

Reply Quote

Date: 8/05/2022 16:31:25
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1881060
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

sibeen said:


Dark Orange said:

Peak Warming Man said:

The only media reports I’ve heard about Snake Is. is when the defenders were asked to surrender they told the Russians to fuck off.
Never heard it at fallen to the Russians.

They took the island and the surviving Ukrainian troops were taken prisoner and exchanged at a later date. The actual soldier who passed that message on to the Russian warship received a shiny medal and the Ukrainians released a postage stamp about it. Three days after the stamp release, the Ukrainians again sent the message by sinking the Russian warship involved.

During this time, I ordered a bunch of the stamps but the Ukrain postal service web site has gone offline.

The Russian postal service?

oops…

Reply Quote

Date: 8/05/2022 18:40:46
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1881102
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


Recently arrived heavy artillery that is very accurate are pushing the Russians back in the mid eastern region of Ukraine.

The conflict is moving to a new stage.

Ukrainian troops who have been in Poland and elsewhere, becoming familiar with the weapons that NATO can provide are beginning to be deployed.

The Russians are about to find out what it really feels like to be on the receiving end.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/05/2022 22:32:57
From: dv
ID: 1881176
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-61343815

Dozens feared dead after Russian bomb hits school

Ukrainian Emergency Services have posted video of the ruins of the school in Bilohorivka, in eastern Ukraine, which was hit by a Russian bomb on Saturday.

It took firefighters three hours to extinguish the blaze, according to the local governor, writing on Telegram.

Up to 60 people are feared dead under the rubble. Thirty people have been rescued so far, with seven injured and two confirmed dead.

It comes amid reports of renewed fighting in eastern Ukraine on Sunday morning.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/05/2022 03:56:39
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1881208
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


PermeateFree said:

Recently arrived heavy artillery that is very accurate are pushing the Russians back in the mid eastern region of Ukraine.

The conflict is moving to a new stage.

Ukrainian troops who have been in Poland and elsewhere, becoming familiar with the weapons that NATO can provide are beginning to be deployed.

The Russians are about to find out what it really feels like to be on the receiving end.

Yeah, after a couple of weeks of only depressing news coming out of the region, I think this next couple of weeks will be interesting. The Ukrainians are tooled up and motivated, and I have no doubt we will see a lot more mangled and smoking Russian hardware.

However, we also have an unhinged Russian leader backed into a corner. When Russia has no more of that hardware to send and the Ukraine/Russia border is lined with 2 million dead Russian reservists, what then?

I heard an interesting comment from a youtube pundit earlier today – “If US intelligence can allow a small army to go toe to toe with the second largest army in the world and come out on top, imagine what that intelligence plus the US military could do”.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/05/2022 05:59:01
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1881210
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

I heard an interesting comment from a youtube pundit earlier today – “If US intelligence can allow a small army to go toe to toe with the second largest army in the world and come out on top, imagine what that intelligence plus the US military could do”.

Perhaps he means ‘a US military that knew what it was fighting for, and that it was something worthwhile’.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/05/2022 20:20:05
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1881489
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

On a Victory Day without victory, Putin faces choice over all-out war
A general mobilization of soldiers could give Russia new momentum, but the risks would be enormous
By Robyn Dixon and Liz Sly
May 7, 2022 at 9:01 a.m. EDT

RIGA, Latvia — Ahead of Russia’s most patriotic and somber holiday, Victory Day on Monday, there is no victory in the war against Ukraine but plenty of rumors that President Vladimir Putin will order a general mobilization of soldiers to secure one.

Are you on Telegram? Subscribe to our channel for the latest updates on Russia’s war in Ukraine.
Analysts see mobilization as Russia’s best hope to turn the tide and defeat Ukraine, by reinforcing demoralized forces and plowing them back into the war. But the risks — admitting that the military campaign so far has been a failure and igniting domestic opposition — may be too great.

Several top Russian officials have sought to quash the rumors. “No, no. I can tell you this on and off air,” said Vyacheslav Volodin, speaker of the Russian parliament, in comments Thursday to Russian radio.

A day earlier, two shadowy figures in the Siberian oil city Nizhnevartovsk made clear what they thought of conscription. One, wearing a gray hoodie and camouflage pants, hurled seven Molotov cocktails into a local military recruiting center while the other recorded the incident — one of six recent arson attacks on Russian recruiting offices. Several of the attacks led to the arrests of young Russian men.

Russia’s 10-week-old military campaign was not supposed to come to this.

On the day of the invasion, a jubilant Margarita Simonyan, editor in chief of state-owned RT, wisecracked that the Russian campaign was just “a standard parade rehearsal” for Victory Day. “It’s just that this year they decided to hold the parade in Kiev,” she tweeted, using the Russian spelling of Ukraine’s capital, Kyiv.

But Russia’s efforts to fuse Victory Day — its celebration of the Soviet victory over the Nazis in World War II — with a victory in its war against what Moscow calls “Nazis” in Ukraine fell flat with the failure to capture Kyiv. The occupation of the strategic Ukrainian port of Mariupol marks a rare Russian success, but the city’s bombed-out ruins make for a unpalatable backdrop for a parade. Sergei Kiriyenko, head of the Russian presidential administration, ruled out an official Victory Day parade there Thursday.

Over the years, Putin has used the holiday to legitimize his increasingly authoritarian rule, exploiting the myth of Russia as a nation that never invaded anyone, fights only in self-defense and single-handedly saved the world from Nazis in World War II, at a staggering cost of 27 million Russian war dead.

“Putin is going to use this day to justify his war against Ukraine and to underline, as he believes, the historical mission of Russia to fight fascism. He has to legitimize his war, and he’s trying to present it to the world and to Russians as some kind of fight for historical justice,” said Tatiana Stanovaya, Paris-based head of R.Politik political consultancy, in an interview.

“The strategic problem that Russia is facing today is that Russian society has not been prepared for protracted and costly war. It wanted a fast, decisive victory, and Putin can’t give it to Russians,” she said.

In Zelensky’s blue-collar hometown, praise for the president’s ‘steel’

If Putin were to declare all-out war and mobilize recruits, it would take at least six months to train them, Stanovaya said. That would also be a recognition that the “special military operation,” as Moscow calls the invasion, has been a failure, and “Putin can’t admit that,” she said. “There are no signs that the Kremlin is ready to shift from a special military operation to a war.”

So far, the Russia has relied primarily on soldiers who have voluntarily signed contracts to serve in the military. Russian officials have previously pledged that conscripts would not be sent into battle, although some have.

Speaking to U.S.-funded Current Time TV, Russian military analyst Ruslan Leviev, of the independent open-source analytical group CIT, said that partial mobilization could help Russia take control of eastern Ukraine, where much of the fighting is now concentrated.

Igor Girkin, a former Russian intelligence officer who led a separatist militia in the Donetsk area of eastern Ukraine in the 2014 uprising, has repeatedly warned that without a general mobilization, Russia faces a drawn-out war with high casualties and possible defeat.

“In our case mobilization is necessary in order to win in the war that we got into up to our ears,” he said in comments last month on Russian social media VKontakte, adding that Russia’s future depended on it.

But Dmitri Alperovitch, head of Washington-based Silverado Policy Accelerator, a think tank, said in an interview that a mobilization would be unpopular and risky. “If you have a general mobilization, everyone in Russia is going to know someone or have a husband, son, nephew or a relative going into the fight,” he said.

If Putin calls a general mobilization, “Russia will have a very long war,” said Phillips O’Brien, professor of strategic studies at Scotland’s University of St. Andrews, in an interview. “First the Russians will have to train trainers to train all those people.”

This year, Putin faces a more delicate and difficult task than on previous Victory Days. While Russian media have largely ignored Russia’s battlefield losses, they have been substantial. Russia has lost significant numbers of tanks, armored vehicles, aircraft and warships, most notably the Moskva, the flagship of its Black Sea fleet destroyed with the help of U.S. intelligence. Between 7,000 to 15,000 Russian servicemen have been killed, according to a NATO estimate.

Russia’s reputation as a leading military power has been badly tarnished, and the country faces debilitating economic isolation that will likely last for years.

In Kharkiv, a 24-hour shift with paramedics amid Russian shelling

This year’s Victory Day parade will be smaller and humbler than in years past, with less equipment on parade and no friendly heads of states invited, not even Belarus President Alexander Lukashenko, who criticized Thursday the way the war has dragged on.

But for many Russians, like a 79-year-old Muscovite named Valentina, the sacrifices and successes still loom large — and underpin support for the war in Ukraine.

“Victory Day is our sacred holiday. I always cry on that day,” Valentina said, sitting on a Moscow park bench with two friends Friday. She declined to give her surname. “I was little. My uncle was killed. It was terrible. So many people died, and so many cities were destroyed, but our country, the U.S.S.R., won that war, and we celebrate the heroes on May 9th.”

She then repeated the anti-Ukraine propaganda that Putin and the Russian media have been promoting, alleging that Ukrainians had been harassing and killing Russian speakers for many years. “Our president did the right thing when he sent troops there. We are peaceful people, but something had to be done,” she said.

Analyst Stanislav Belkovsky, speaking to online outlet We Can Explain associated with exiled tycoon Mikhail Khodorkovsky, predicted that Putin would use the holiday to vow never to leave eastern Ukraine and would give the name “Novorossiya,” or New Russia, to a slice of Ukrainian territory along the Sea of Azov.

Stanovaya said she expected Putin to emphasize his grievances over Western support for Ukraine and could ramp up efforts to intimidate the West, for instance, with more test launches of nuclear-capable missiles.

As the war effort has faltered, commentators on Russian television have complained that Russia is fighting with a hand tied behind its back to avoid civilian casualties — contrary to the evidence — and have claimed that Western assistance, including arms and intelligence, is drawing out the fight.

They’re focused on “the idea the that Russia is a victim of unjust and hostile actions of the West,” Stanovaya said. “It means that Putin doesn’t really need to present Russians with some gains. It’s sufficient for him just to continue talking about Russia’s historical mission to fight fascism.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/05/07/russia-ukraine-victory-day-mobilization/?

Reply Quote

Date: 10/05/2022 12:48:05
From: diddly-squat
ID: 1881676
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

some fascinating interviews here

https://www.youtube.com/c/1420channel/featured

Reply Quote

Date: 12/05/2022 17:44:51
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1882427
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

ABC News:

‘Finland’s leaders back application to join NATO ‘without delay’
Finland is virtually certain to seek NATO membership, with neighbouring Sweden expected to decide on joining the military alliance in the coming days. ‘

Would you like to be the one in Moscow who breaks the news to the dictator?

“Hey, Mr. P, you know how you weren’t keen on having a big border with NATO? And how that was part of the deal with invading Ukraine? Well…er…uh…don’t look now, but…”

Reply Quote

Date: 12/05/2022 17:46:13
From: Cymek
ID: 1882429
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


ABC News:

‘Finland’s leaders back application to join NATO ‘without delay’
Finland is virtually certain to seek NATO membership, with neighbouring Sweden expected to decide on joining the military alliance in the coming days. ‘

Would you like to be the one in Moscow who breaks the news to the dictator?

“Hey, Mr. P, you know how you weren’t keen on having a big border with NATO? And how that was part of the deal with invading Ukraine? Well…er…uh…don’t look now, but…”

Self fulfilling wasn’t it

Reply Quote

Date: 12/05/2022 17:47:18
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1882431
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

An interesting read by a US general comparing the Ukraine and Russian armies:

https://www.thebulwark.com/i-commanded-u-s-army-europe-heres-what-i-saw-in-the-russian-and-ukrainian-armies/

Reply Quote

Date: 12/05/2022 17:47:43
From: Michael V
ID: 1882434
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


ABC News:

‘Finland’s leaders back application to join NATO ‘without delay’
Finland is virtually certain to seek NATO membership, with neighbouring Sweden expected to decide on joining the military alliance in the coming days. ‘

Would you like to be the one in Moscow who breaks the news to the dictator?

“Hey, Mr. P, you know how you weren’t keen on having a big border with NATO? And how that was part of the deal with invading Ukraine? Well…er…uh…don’t look now, but…”

Off with his head!

Reply Quote

Date: 12/05/2022 18:17:07
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1882451
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Michael V said:


captain_spalding said:

ABC News:

‘Finland’s leaders back application to join NATO ‘without delay’
Finland is virtually certain to seek NATO membership, with neighbouring Sweden expected to decide on joining the military alliance in the coming days. ‘

Would you like to be the one in Moscow who breaks the news to the dictator?

“Hey, Mr. P, you know how you weren’t keen on having a big border with NATO? And how that was part of the deal with invading Ukraine? Well…er…uh…don’t look now, but…”

Off with his head!

The UK and Sweden have also signed a “mutual security assurances” pact whereby they will provide aid to each other when required.

Reply Quote

Date: 12/05/2022 18:35:38
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1882455
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:

The UK and Sweden have also signed a “mutual security assurances” pact whereby they will provide aid to each other when required.

I hope that someone is able to say to Vlad something like “well, that was a stroke of f***ing genius. You scared Sweden and Finland into joining NATO, and now they’ll be running military exercises all along the f***ing border from the Barents Sea almost to St. Petersburg. You’re a real f***ing military and foreign policy whiz-kid, Vlad, thanks a f***ing lot, putz.’.

Reply Quote

Date: 12/05/2022 18:37:42
From: party_pants
ID: 1882456
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Dark Orange said:

The UK and Sweden have also signed a “mutual security assurances” pact whereby they will provide aid to each other when required.

I hope that someone is able to say to Vlad something like “well, that was a stroke of f***ing genius. You scared Sweden and Finland into joining NATO, and now they’ll be running military exercises all along the f***ing border from the Barents Sea almost to St. Petersburg. You’re a real f***ing military and foreign policy whiz-kid, Vlad, thanks a f***ing lot, putz.’.

… and the Baltic is pretty much now a NATO lake.

Reply Quote

Date: 12/05/2022 19:00:46
From: Michael V
ID: 1882458
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:


Michael V said:

captain_spalding said:

ABC News:

‘Finland’s leaders back application to join NATO ‘without delay’
Finland is virtually certain to seek NATO membership, with neighbouring Sweden expected to decide on joining the military alliance in the coming days. ‘

Would you like to be the one in Moscow who breaks the news to the dictator?

“Hey, Mr. P, you know how you weren’t keen on having a big border with NATO? And how that was part of the deal with invading Ukraine? Well…er…uh…don’t look now, but…”

Off with his head!

The UK and Sweden have also signed a “mutual security assurances” pact whereby they will provide aid to each other when required.

This is a good thing.

Reply Quote

Date: 12/05/2022 19:02:57
From: Michael V
ID: 1882459
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Dark Orange said:

The UK and Sweden have also signed a “mutual security assurances” pact whereby they will provide aid to each other when required.

I hope that someone is able to say to Vlad something like “well, that was a stroke of f***ing genius. You scared Sweden and Finland into joining NATO, and now they’ll be running military exercises all along the f***ing border from the Barents Sea almost to St. Petersburg. You’re a real f***ing military and foreign policy whiz-kid, Vlad, thanks a f***ing lot, putz.’.

Lift lid on Kremlin.

Looks around carefully.

Nup, nobody. Nobody.

Puts lid carefully back on Kremlin.

Reply Quote

Date: 12/05/2022 19:41:29
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1882467
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Michael V said:


captain_spalding said:

Dark Orange said:

The UK and Sweden have also signed a “mutual security assurances” pact whereby they will provide aid to each other when required.

I hope that someone is able to say to Vlad something like “well, that was a stroke of f***ing genius. You scared Sweden and Finland into joining NATO, and now they’ll be running military exercises all along the f***ing border from the Barents Sea almost to St. Petersburg. You’re a real f***ing military and foreign policy whiz-kid, Vlad, thanks a f***ing lot, putz.’.

Lift lid on Kremlin.

Looks around carefully.

Nup, nobody. Nobody.

Puts lid carefully back on Kremlin.

Maybe when he’s chained to the wall of the Lubyanka basement…

Reply Quote

Date: 13/05/2022 08:17:36
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1882580
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Russia wins gold in the Tank Turret Toss competition with a vertical throw of 250 feet

https://youtu.be/QiybJ8UuHXA

Reply Quote

Date: 13/05/2022 08:25:50
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1882582
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:


Russia wins gold in the Tank Turret Toss competition with a vertical throw of 250 feet

https://youtu.be/QiybJ8UuHXA

You’re watching the deaths of at least four people there.

Four more in the service of Putin’s ego.

Reply Quote

Date: 13/05/2022 08:44:22
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1882583
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Dark Orange said:

Russia wins gold in the Tank Turret Toss competition with a vertical throw of 250 feet

https://youtu.be/QiybJ8UuHXA

You’re watching the deaths of at least four people there.

Four more in the service of Putin’s ego.

Meh. It is a spectacular end to a piece of machinery that has played a role in the deaths of tens of thousands of civilians who just wanted to be left alone.

It may not have even had Russian soldiers in it, but the images of executed civilians in the streets has made me not care even if there were.

Reply Quote

Date: 13/05/2022 09:33:43
From: Michael V
ID: 1882586
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-05-13/russia-warns-it-will-take-steps-if-finland-joins-nato/101062934

Reply Quote

Date: 13/05/2022 09:53:01
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1882588
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:


Russia wins gold in the Tank Turret Toss competition with a vertical throw of 250 feet

https://youtu.be/QiybJ8UuHXA

Probably hit by a Javelin or nlaw missile.

Reply Quote

Date: 13/05/2022 10:00:31
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1882595
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Michael V said:


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-05-13/russia-warns-it-will-take-steps-if-finland-joins-nato/101062934

https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/u4kc5z/finnish_tractors_amassing_on_the_russian_border/

“Finnish tractors amassing on the russian border as a response to the russian threats and movements”

Reply Quote

Date: 13/05/2022 10:04:21
From: Bogsnorkler
ID: 1882598
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Putin dies and goes to hell, but after a while, he is given a day off for good behavior.
So he goes to Moscow, enters a bar, orders a drink, and asks the bartender:
-Is Crimea ours?
-Yes, it is.
-And the Donbas?
-Also ours.
-And Kyiv?
-We got that too.
Satisfied, Putin drinks, and asks:
-Thanks, how much do I owe you?
-5 euros.

Reply Quote

Date: 13/05/2022 10:12:12
From: Cymek
ID: 1882601
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

I was excited to pick up a new toaster and vacuum cleaner after work, lame

Reply Quote

Date: 13/05/2022 10:12:21
From: Michael V
ID: 1882602
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:


Michael V said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-05-13/russia-warns-it-will-take-steps-if-finland-joins-nato/101062934

https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/u4kc5z/finnish_tractors_amassing_on_the_russian_border/

“Finnish tractors amassing on the russian border as a response to the russian threats and movements”

:)

Reply Quote

Date: 13/05/2022 10:14:08
From: Michael V
ID: 1882604
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bogsnorkler said:


Putin dies and goes to hell, but after a while, he is given a day off for good behavior.
So he goes to Moscow, enters a bar, orders a drink, and asks the bartender:
-Is Crimea ours?
-Yes, it is.
-And the Donbas?
-Also ours.
-And Kyiv?
-We got that too.
Satisfied, Putin drinks, and asks:
-Thanks, how much do I owe you?
-5 euros.

LOL

Reply Quote

Date: 13/05/2022 10:36:12
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1882619
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

A map showing the location of Russian phone SIMs in Ukraine.

Reply Quote

Date: 13/05/2022 11:03:50
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1882627
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:


A map showing the location of Russian phone SIMs in Ukraine.


“I can’t live without my phone.”

And you may not live much longer with it.

Reply Quote

Date: 13/05/2022 11:21:09
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1882633
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Dark Orange said:

A map showing the location of Russian phone SIMs in Ukraine.


“I can’t live without my phone.”

And you may not live much longer with it.

so everyone’s already agreed that Luhansk, Mariupol, etc are not part of Ukraine as you can see

Reply Quote

Date: 13/05/2022 11:52:38
From: dv
ID: 1882644
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:


A map showing the location of Russian phone SIMs in Ukraine.


I’m surprised by the gap in the east

Reply Quote

Date: 13/05/2022 11:59:02
From: Cymek
ID: 1882647
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


Dark Orange said:

A map showing the location of Russian phone SIMs in Ukraine.


I’m surprised by the gap in the east

Too cheap to buy roaming data maybe

Reply Quote

Date: 13/05/2022 18:23:03
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1882862
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Putin ‘suspends’ top commander after generals ‘sacked or arrested’ in purge


General Valery Gerasimov, centre, has reportedly been suspended alongside several other officials

Vladimir Putin has suspended his top commander as he looks for people to blame for Russia’s failure in Ukraine, it is believed.

One of President Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s inner circle veterans on military intelligence, Oleksiy Arestovych, claimed General Valery Gerasimov is one of several officers to be sacked.

This came out on Wednesday night, when Mr Arestovych spoke with the anti-Kremlin Russian lawyer Mark Feygin.

Mr Arestovych said: ‘According to preliminary information, Gerasimov has been de-facto suspended.

‘They are deciding whether to give him time to fix things, or not.’

The military man did stress his information was ‘preliminary’.

It comes after General Gerasimov was seemingly nowhere to be seen on Victory Day on May 9 – the anniversary commemorating Russia’s defeat of the Nazis in 1945.

Putin spends countless resources on displaying Russia’s military might.

Reply Quote

Date: 13/05/2022 18:26:28
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1882864
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


Putin ‘suspends’ top commander after generals ‘sacked or arrested’ in purge


General Valery Gerasimov, centre, has reportedly been suspended alongside several other officials

Vladimir Putin has suspended his top commander as he looks for people to blame for Russia’s failure in Ukraine, it is believed.

One of President Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s inner circle veterans on military intelligence, Oleksiy Arestovych, claimed General Valery Gerasimov is one of several officers to be sacked.

This came out on Wednesday night, when Mr Arestovych spoke with the anti-Kremlin Russian lawyer Mark Feygin.

Mr Arestovych said: ‘According to preliminary information, Gerasimov has been de-facto suspended.

‘They are deciding whether to give him time to fix things, or not.’

The military man did stress his information was ‘preliminary’.

It comes after General Gerasimov was seemingly nowhere to be seen on Victory Day on May 9 – the anniversary commemorating Russia’s defeat of the Nazis in 1945.

Putin spends countless resources on displaying Russia’s military might.


General Valery Gerasimov, left, was nowhere to be seen on Victory Day


The commander of the Russian Black Sea Fleet Igor Osipov has been arrested, according to the interior ministry in Kyiv


Vladislav Ersho was Russia’s 6th army commander before he was sacked

There is usually a large, machinery and personnel heavy military parade in Moscow’s Red Square on Victory Day.

Thermonuclear missiles, fighter jets forming ‘Z’ formations and tanks were everywhere.

It would make sense for Putin’s top military commander to be there but he was not pictured alongside the other generals.

Indeed, multiple others have been ‘sacked or arrested’, including admiral Igor Osipov – the commander of Russia’s Black Sea fleet.

Others who are believed to have been fired include Vladislav Ersho, Russia’s 6th army commander; lieutenant general Sergei Kisel, commander of the 1st tank army; and Arkady Marzoev, the commander of the 22nd army.

Vice admiral Sergei Pinchuk, deputy commander of the Black Sea fleet, is also reportedly under investigation.

Meanwhile, several oligarchs linked closely with the Kremlin have died under suspicious circumstances.

Most recently, billionaire Alexander Subbotin, 43, died of cardiac arrest after ‘going to shamans for toad venom to cure a hangover’.

Reply Quote

Date: 13/05/2022 18:28:21
From: party_pants
ID: 1882865
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

>>> Putin spends countless resources on displaying Russia’s military might. <<<

I’m sure a half-decent auditor could count it.

Reply Quote

Date: 13/05/2022 18:29:23
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1882866
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


PermeateFree said:

Putin ‘suspends’ top commander after generals ‘sacked or arrested’ in purge


General Valery Gerasimov, centre, has reportedly been suspended alongside several other officials

Vladimir Putin has suspended his top commander as he looks for people to blame for Russia’s failure in Ukraine, it is believed.

One of President Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s inner circle veterans on military intelligence, Oleksiy Arestovych, claimed General Valery Gerasimov is one of several officers to be sacked.

This came out on Wednesday night, when Mr Arestovych spoke with the anti-Kremlin Russian lawyer Mark Feygin.

Mr Arestovych said: ‘According to preliminary information, Gerasimov has been de-facto suspended.

‘They are deciding whether to give him time to fix things, or not.’

The military man did stress his information was ‘preliminary’.

It comes after General Gerasimov was seemingly nowhere to be seen on Victory Day on May 9 – the anniversary commemorating Russia’s defeat of the Nazis in 1945.

Putin spends countless resources on displaying Russia’s military might.


General Valery Gerasimov, left, was nowhere to be seen on Victory Day


The commander of the Russian Black Sea Fleet Igor Osipov has been arrested, according to the interior ministry in Kyiv


Vladislav Ersho was Russia’s 6th army commander before he was sacked

There is usually a large, machinery and personnel heavy military parade in Moscow’s Red Square on Victory Day.

Thermonuclear missiles, fighter jets forming ‘Z’ formations and tanks were everywhere.

It would make sense for Putin’s top military commander to be there but he was not pictured alongside the other generals.

Indeed, multiple others have been ‘sacked or arrested’, including admiral Igor Osipov – the commander of Russia’s Black Sea fleet.

Others who are believed to have been fired include Vladislav Ersho, Russia’s 6th army commander; lieutenant general Sergei Kisel, commander of the 1st tank army; and Arkady Marzoev, the commander of the 22nd army.

Vice admiral Sergei Pinchuk, deputy commander of the Black Sea fleet, is also reportedly under investigation.

Meanwhile, several oligarchs linked closely with the Kremlin have died under suspicious circumstances.

Most recently, billionaire Alexander Subbotin, 43, died of cardiac arrest after ‘going to shamans for toad venom to cure a hangover’.


Lieutenant general Sergei Kisel, commander of the 1st tank army, has also been fired


Vice admiral Sergei Pinchuk, deputy commander of the Black Sea fleet, is reportedly under investigation


Arkady Marzoev was the commander of the 22nd army before he was fired

Former Kremlin official Vladislav Avayev, 51, died in what appeared to be a murder-suicide killing his wife and 13-year-old daughter.

Just a few days later, multimillionaire Sergey Protosenya, 55, was found hanged in Spain.

Separately, four billionaires and two executives connected to the state-owned gas and oil giant Gazprom have also died since the war started.

These deaths, along with two other recorded suicides, have been suspected as possible assassinations in the West.

https://metro.co.uk/2022/05/13/putin-suspends-top-commander-after-generals-sacked-or-arrested-16635410/

Reply Quote

Date: 13/05/2022 18:30:31
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1882867
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Y’know, if Vlad gets keen on pulling this kind of bullshit, one of these generals might decide to take ‘pre-emptive action’.

Those blokes have access to weapons, and to people who know how to use them.

Vlad’s been keeping people at longer than arm’s distance for a while now.

People may be getting keen to keep Vlad at a distance these days. You don’t want to become ‘collateral damage’, do you?

Reply Quote

Date: 13/05/2022 18:31:56
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1882868
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

party_pants said:


>>> Putin spends countless resources on displaying Russia’s military might. <<<

I’m sure a half-decent auditor could count it.

A cast of thousands and weaponry in the billions.

Reply Quote

Date: 13/05/2022 18:32:13
From: Cymek
ID: 1882869
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Y’know, if Vlad gets keen on pulling this kind of bullshit, one of these generals might decide to take ‘pre-emptive action’.

Those blokes have access to weapons, and to people who know how to use them.

Vlad’s been keeping people at longer than arm’s distance for a while now.

People may be getting keen to keep Vlad at a distance these days. You don’t want to become ‘collateral damage’, do you?

Wonder how well the Kremlin is defended ?

Reply Quote

Date: 13/05/2022 18:33:04
From: Cymek
ID: 1882870
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


party_pants said:

>>> Putin spends countless resources on displaying Russia’s military might. <<<

I’m sure a half-decent auditor could count it.

A cast of thousands and weaponry in the billions.

He should just buy those pills the porn sites advertise, cheaper than compensating with massive weaponary

Reply Quote

Date: 13/05/2022 18:34:36
From: party_pants
ID: 1882871
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Y’know, if Vlad gets keen on pulling this kind of bullshit, one of these generals might decide to take ‘pre-emptive action’.

Those blokes have access to weapons, and to people who know how to use them.

Vlad’s been keeping people at longer than arm’s distance for a while now.

People may be getting keen to keep Vlad at a distance these days. You don’t want to become ‘collateral damage’, do you?

Is it worth hoping that the armed forces depose Putin, or is it better to go with agitation/propaganda to get the various regions to breakaway and declare their independence? Would replacing Putin with someone else just bring about a more extreme problem some years down the track when he’s had time to rebuild?

Reply Quote

Date: 13/05/2022 18:38:13
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1882873
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Y’know, if Vlad gets keen on pulling this kind of bullshit, one of these generals might decide to take ‘pre-emptive action’.

Those blokes have access to weapons, and to people who know how to use them.

Vlad’s been keeping people at longer than arm’s distance for a while now.

People may be getting keen to keep Vlad at a distance these days. You don’t want to become ‘collateral damage’, do you?

Unfortunately Putin is well protected by the National Guard, under the command of the creature depicted below, which is basically a Putin clone.

The Rosgvardiya numbers around 340,000 troops and is loyal and accountable only to the president himself, independent of the armed forces.

Reply Quote

Date: 13/05/2022 18:39:23
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1882874
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Y’know, if Vlad gets keen on pulling this kind of bullshit, one of these generals might decide to take ‘pre-emptive action’.

Those blokes have access to weapons, and to people who know how to use them.

Vlad’s been keeping people at longer than arm’s distance for a while now.

People may be getting keen to keep Vlad at a distance these days. You don’t want to become ‘collateral damage’, do you?

I have no doubt that Putin knows a hell of a lot of people would be very happy if he was not in power any more – one way or another – and so anyone anywhere near him would be very thoroughly checked for weapons.
Though, as you know, there’s many things you can use as a weapon if need be.

Reply Quote

Date: 13/05/2022 18:44:11
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1882875
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


captain_spalding said:

Y’know, if Vlad gets keen on pulling this kind of bullshit, one of these generals might decide to take ‘pre-emptive action’.

Those blokes have access to weapons, and to people who know how to use them.

Vlad’s been keeping people at longer than arm’s distance for a while now.

People may be getting keen to keep Vlad at a distance these days. You don’t want to become ‘collateral damage’, do you?

Unfortunately Putin is well protected by the National Guard, under the command of the creature depicted below, which is basically a Putin clone.

The Rosgvardiya numbers around 340,000 troops and is loyal and accountable only to the president himself, independent of the armed forces.

In my day, with ‘my’ rifle and all things going exceptionally cruisey, i could hit a Fig. 11 target at 900 yards. Aiming a metre above it, and about 600mm to the left for wind, after a few preliminary shots, yes, but i could do it once in a long while.

And i was an amateur at it.

There has to be someone in all of Russia who can do the job with a high degree of surety.

Reply Quote

Date: 13/05/2022 18:46:19
From: Cymek
ID: 1882876
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Bubblecar said:

captain_spalding said:

Y’know, if Vlad gets keen on pulling this kind of bullshit, one of these generals might decide to take ‘pre-emptive action’.

Those blokes have access to weapons, and to people who know how to use them.

Vlad’s been keeping people at longer than arm’s distance for a while now.

People may be getting keen to keep Vlad at a distance these days. You don’t want to become ‘collateral damage’, do you?

Unfortunately Putin is well protected by the National Guard, under the command of the creature depicted below, which is basically a Putin clone.

The Rosgvardiya numbers around 340,000 troops and is loyal and accountable only to the president himself, independent of the armed forces.

In my day, with ‘my’ rifle and all things going exceptionally cruisey, i could hit a Fig. 11 target at 900 yards. Aiming a metre above it, and about 600mm to the left for wind, after a few preliminary shots, yes, but i could do it once in a long while.

And i was an amateur at it.

There has to be someone in all of Russia who can do the job with a high degree of surety.

Could use a rocket launcher to make sure

Reply Quote

Date: 13/05/2022 19:03:40
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1882878
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Russia has experienced heavy losses of some of its top military personnel since it waged war with Ukraine on February 24. On Wednesday, Ukrainian officials said that its army had reportedly killed its 15th Russian commander since the beginning of the conflict.

Colonel Alexei Sharov, who commanded the 810th Guards Separate Order of Zhukov Brigade in the Russian Marines, was reportedly shot dead in the southern port city of Mariupol, where tens of thousands of people remain trapped amid a siege.

Sharov was the fifth colonel to be killed in the war and he joins five generals as well several other top-ranked Russian military officials, including captains and majors.

Many of the deaths have not been officially confirmed by Russia’s ministry of defense, but have been confirmed by Ukraine’s ministry of defense and other media sources in Russia and Ukraine.

Newsweek has contacted the Russian ministry of defense to confirm all 15 names.

Here is the list of Russia’s top military brass that have reportedly been killed during the conflict.


Russian Colonel Alexei Sharov was reportedly killed by Ukrainian forces, the Ukrainian defence ministry has said. Reports have suggested that Russia has lost as many as 15 generals during its invasion of Ukraine.

Sharov’s death was revealed in a Telegram post by Odessa military administration spokesman Sergey Bratchuk and reported by Ukrainian news outlets including Ukrinform. Ukrainian army officer Anatoliy Stefan also tweeted the news of the death.

Major General Vitaly Gerasimov
Ukraine’s ministry of defense said that Gerasimov was killed outside Kharkiv on March 7. He was a one-star rank Russian Ground Forces major general.

Major General Andrei Kolesnikov
Kolesnikov, another one-star rank serviceman commanding the 29th Combined Arms Army, was killed in Ukrainian territory on March 11, Ukraine’s military and media reported.

Major General Andrey Sukhovetsky
Sukhovetsky was the commanding general of Russia’s 7th Airborne Division and deputy commander of the 41st Combined Arms Army. He was the first reported high-ranking loss for Russia’s military – he was said to be killed by sniper fire.

Major General Oleg Mityaev

Oleg Mityaev, commander of Russia’s 150th motorized rifle division, was allegedly killed in fighting in Mariupol.

Mityaev was the fourth Russian military general killed in Ukraine.

Ukrainian Interior Ministry adviser Anton Gerashchenko announced the death on Telegram on March 16, sharing a photo of a person he said was the officer.

Mityaev, 46, was in command of the 150th motorized rifle division, which he had led since 2020. Before the Ukraine war, the division was deployed in the Rostov region, at the Ukrainian border.

He had previously fought in Syria and in 2016 had been appointed as commander of a Russian military base in Tajikistan.

Lieutenant General Andrei Mordvichev
The high-ranking Russian general reportedly died when Ukrainian forces hit an airfield in Chornobayivka, near Kherson airport, the general staff of Ukraine’s army claimed in a social media post.

Lietenant Colonel Dmitry Safronov
Safronov, commander of the Russian Armed Forces’ 61st Separate Marine Brigade, was killed in the battle of Chuhuiv, a city in Kharkiv Oblast.

Lieutenant Colonel Denis Glebov
Glebov, who was Deputy Commander of the 11th Separate Airborne Assault, was killed during the liberation of Chuhuiv, according to Ukrainian officials. TASS, the Russian news agency said he had been ordered the Order of Courage after his death.

Guard Colonel Konstantin Zizevsky
Mikhail Vedernikov, the governor of the Pskov region in Russia’s northwest, reported on Instagram that Zizevsky, a Guards Colonel, was killed during fighting in the eastern regions of Donetsk and Luhansk.

Guard Lieutenant Colonel Yuri Agarkov
Vedernikov confirmed the guard lieutenant colonel’s death in the same Instagram post. He died alongside fellow paratrooper Zizevky. Russian media reported that he commanded a motorised rifle regiment.

Colonel Andrei Zakharov
The commander of the 6th Tank Regiment of the 90th Tank Division, was killed near Kyiv, according to Ukraine’s defense ministry.

Colonel Sergei Porokhnya
Porokhnya, the commander of the 12th separate guards engineering brigade, died while deploying a bridge, according to media reports and Ukraine’s armed forces via Facebook.

Colonel Sergei Sukharev

Colonel Sergei Sukharev, of the 331st Guards Parachute Assault Regiment from Kostroma, was killed in battle along with four other members of the regiment, Russian state-run television and and radio company GTRK Kostroma reported.

The commander of the 331st Guards Parachute Assault Regiment from Kostroma was killed in battle with four other members of the regiment, Russian state-run television and radio company GTRK Kostroma reported.

Sukharev, who had commanded the paratroop regiment since 2021, was killed in battle alongside Captain Alexei Nikitin, Senior Sergeant Sergei Lebedev, Sergeant Alexander Limonov and Corporal Yuri Degtyarev, according to the news outlet.

General Magomed Tushaev
Tushaev, a leading Chechen special forces warlord, was killed near Hostomel.

He commanded the 141th motorised national guard brigade, and has been accused of leading several homophobic purges in Chechnya.

Guards Colonel Vladimir Zhoga
His death was reported on Telegram by Denis Pushilin, the head of the Russian-backed Donetsk People’s Republic. Pushilin said the Ukraine-born Commander of the Sparta Separate Reconnaissance Battalion, a neo-Nazi Kremlin-backed separatist force based in Donetsk, had been killed while evacuating civilians.

https://www.newsweek.com/full-list-every-russian-commander-killed-fighting-ukraine-war-1691064

Reply Quote

Date: 13/05/2022 23:29:26
From: roughbarked
ID: 1882941
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Bubblecar said:

captain_spalding said:

Y’know, if Vlad gets keen on pulling this kind of bullshit, one of these generals might decide to take ‘pre-emptive action’.

Those blokes have access to weapons, and to people who know how to use them.

Vlad’s been keeping people at longer than arm’s distance for a while now.

People may be getting keen to keep Vlad at a distance these days. You don’t want to become ‘collateral damage’, do you?

Unfortunately Putin is well protected by the National Guard, under the command of the creature depicted below, which is basically a Putin clone.

The Rosgvardiya numbers around 340,000 troops and is loyal and accountable only to the president himself, independent of the armed forces.

In my day, with ‘my’ rifle and all things going exceptionally cruisey, i could hit a Fig. 11 target at 900 yards. Aiming a metre above it, and about 600mm to the left for wind, after a few preliminary shots, yes, but i could do it once in a long while.

And i was an amateur at it.

There has to be someone in all of Russia who can do the job with a high degree of surety.

Send Jack Reacher in.

Reply Quote

Date: 13/05/2022 23:51:03
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1882947
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Bubblecar said:

Unfortunately Putin is well protected by the National Guard, under the command of the creature depicted below, which is basically a Putin clone.

The Rosgvardiya numbers around 340,000 troops and is loyal and accountable only to the president himself, independent of the armed forces.

In my day, with ‘my’ rifle and all things going exceptionally cruisey, i could hit a Fig. 11 target at 900 yards. Aiming a metre above it, and about 600mm to the left for wind, after a few preliminary shots, yes, but i could do it once in a long while.

And i was an amateur at it.

There has to be someone in all of Russia who can do the job with a high degree of surety.

They are all on the front lines.

Reply Quote

Date: 14/05/2022 04:30:39
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1882987
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

New Lines magazine reports it has obtained an audio recording of an oligarch close to the Kremlin who describes the Russian president as “very ill with blood cancer”, although the type of blood cancer was not specified. It says a “top-secret memo” was sent out by the headquarters of the FSB, Russia’s domestic security agency, to all its regional directors.

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-news-war-russia-putin-ill-live-nuclear-latest-updates-12541713?postid=3883647#liveblog-body

Christo Grozev, the head of investigations at Bellingcat, a well-respected forensic research website, said: “The memo instructed the regional chiefs not to trust rumours about the president’s terminal condition. “The directors were further instructed to dispel any rumors to this effect that may spread within the local FSB units. According to a source at one of the regional units who saw the memo, this unprecedented instruction had the opposite effect, with most FSB officers suddenly coming to believe that Putin indeed suffers from a serious medical condition.”

Reply Quote

Date: 14/05/2022 08:58:37
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1883027
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/12/first-russian-soldier-to-go-on-trial-in-ukraine-for-war-crimes

…Shysimarin shot dead the unarmed man, who was on a bicycle and talking on his phone, after being ordered “to kill a civilian so he would not report them to Ukrainian defenders”, according to prosecutors.

Reply Quote

Date: 14/05/2022 09:02:00
From: Tamb
ID: 1883029
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/12/first-russian-soldier-to-go-on-trial-in-ukraine-for-war-crimes

…Shysimarin shot dead the unarmed man, who was on a bicycle and talking on his phone, after being ordered “to kill a civilian so he would not report them to Ukrainian defenders”, according to prosecutors.


Finland’s probable joining NATO will .IMO. be a very good thing.

Reply Quote

Date: 14/05/2022 09:02:51
From: roughbarked
ID: 1883031
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/12/first-russian-soldier-to-go-on-trial-in-ukraine-for-war-crimes

…Shysimarin shot dead the unarmed man, who was on a bicycle and talking on his phone, after being ordered “to kill a civilian so he would not report them to Ukrainian defenders”, according to prosecutors.

Still no excuse. As if the Ukranians didn’t know where the Russians were.

Reply Quote

Date: 14/05/2022 09:11:46
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1883036
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/12/first-russian-soldier-to-go-on-trial-in-ukraine-for-war-crimes

…Shysimarin shot dead the unarmed man, who was on a bicycle and talking on his phone, after being ordered “to kill a civilian so he would not report them to Ukrainian defenders”, according to prosecutors.

You never really know what you might do until you’re in the middle of a situation.

I really doubt that the Russian army teaches its recruits anything about what constitutes a lawful command, which they should obey, and what 2their responsibilities are under international law and the rules of war.

Any good military at least gives a bare-bones education on such things. You won’t know all of the in and outs afterward, but you’ll know the most basic aspects.

But, imagine you’re a recruit, and in training, and you have good officers and NCOs who teach you what you need to know, including the aforementioned basics.

And then one day you’re in a war zone. You’re far from home, frightened, you’ve seen a lot of people hurt and killed, you feel very, very vulnerable, and you’re so very tired and you’re stressed out to the max. You could die at any moment.

And then your officer says ‘shoot him!’ and points to a bloke in civilian clothes.

Now, you know that ain’t right. Not lawful. You could, and probably should, say ‘no, sir!’.

But,this is a good officer, knows his stuff, seems to give a damn about you. He wouldn’t give that order without a good reason, would he?

Would he?

What do you do?

Reply Quote

Date: 14/05/2022 09:15:13
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1883037
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

I’m sure the Ukrainians have done their share of summary executions too.

Reply Quote

Date: 14/05/2022 09:16:09
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1883038
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Peak Warming Man said:


I’m sure the Ukrainians have done their share of summary executions too.

There’s bloody few saints on a battlefield.

Reply Quote

Date: 14/05/2022 09:17:10
From: roughbarked
ID: 1883039
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Peak Warming Man said:


I’m sure the Ukrainians have done their share of summary executions too.

At least 15 carefully targeted commanders eh?

Reply Quote

Date: 14/05/2022 09:17:43
From: roughbarked
ID: 1883040
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Peak Warming Man said:

I’m sure the Ukrainians have done their share of summary executions too.

There’s bloody few saints on a battlefield.

However, Ukraine isn’t invadiing nor targetting civilians.

Reply Quote

Date: 14/05/2022 09:19:32
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1883041
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

roughbarked said:


captain_spalding said:

Peak Warming Man said:

I’m sure the Ukrainians have done their share of summary executions too.

There’s bloody few saints on a battlefield.

However, Ukraine isn’t invadiing nor targetting civilians.

If they believe civilians are working for the Russians they might go up against the wall.

Reply Quote

Date: 14/05/2022 09:23:32
From: roughbarked
ID: 1883042
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Peak Warming Man said:


roughbarked said:

captain_spalding said:

There’s bloody few saints on a battlefield.

However, Ukraine isn’t invadiing nor targetting civilians.

If they believe civilians are working for the Russians they might go up against the wall.

From what I’ve seen, they are captured and interrogated.

Reply Quote

Date: 14/05/2022 09:25:33
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1883043
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

roughbarked said:

From what I’ve seen, they are captured and interrogated.

‘…first.’

(You left that off). :)

Reply Quote

Date: 14/05/2022 09:31:00
From: roughbarked
ID: 1883044
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


roughbarked said:

From what I’ve seen, they are captured and interrogated.

‘…first.’

(You left that off). :)

;)

Reply Quote

Date: 14/05/2022 09:34:20
From: Tamb
ID: 1883045
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

roughbarked said:


captain_spalding said:

roughbarked said:

From what I’ve seen, they are captured and interrogated.

‘…first.’

(You left that off). :)

;)

The Ukranians have the high moral ground. They won’t sacrifice that for a bit of revenge.

Reply Quote

Date: 14/05/2022 09:34:42
From: roughbarked
ID: 1883046
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Tamb said:


roughbarked said:

captain_spalding said:

‘…first.’

(You left that off). :)

;)

The Ukranians have the high moral ground. They won’t sacrifice that for a bit of revenge.

True.

Reply Quote

Date: 14/05/2022 09:38:27
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1883048
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Tamb said:


roughbarked said:

captain_spalding said:

‘…first.’

(You left that off). :)

;)

The Ukranians have the high moral ground. They won’t sacrifice that for a bit of revenge.

In general, no. I’m sure that the policy that’s promulgated emphasises that.

But, as i say, wars are not fought by saints. On both sides, there’ll be things done in the heat of the moment that won’t ever be spoken about. Maybe a lot more on on side than the other, but certainly both.

Reply Quote

Date: 14/05/2022 09:47:35
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1883049
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

roughbarked said:


captain_spalding said:

Peak Warming Man said:

I’m sure the Ukrainians have done their share of summary executions too.

There’s bloody few saints on a battlefield.

However, Ukraine isn’t invadiing nor targetting civilians.

I would go as far as saying that the Ukrainians are actively attempting to minimise civilian losses when they target ammunition dumps and fuel storage facilities in Russia.

Reply Quote

Date: 14/05/2022 09:51:21
From: roughbarked
ID: 1883053
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:


roughbarked said:

captain_spalding said:

There’s bloody few saints on a battlefield.

However, Ukraine isn’t invadiing nor targetting civilians.

I would go as far as saying that the Ukrainians are actively attempting to minimise civilian losses when they target ammunition dumps and fuel storage facilities in Russia.

Yes.

Reply Quote

Date: 14/05/2022 09:53:13
From: Bogsnorkler
ID: 1883056
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:


roughbarked said:

captain_spalding said:

There’s bloody few saints on a battlefield.

However, Ukraine isn’t invadiing nor targetting civilians.

I would go as far as saying that the Ukrainians are actively attempting to minimise civilian losses when they target ammunition dumps and fuel storage facilities in Russia.

PWM whole argument strategy is #whataboutism.

Reply Quote

Date: 14/05/2022 17:18:29
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1883198
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Investigation: How is the Ukraine war redefining future conflict? – BBC Newsnight

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTQ5ZGHV9Zs

Reply Quote

Date: 14/05/2022 21:35:41
From: dv
ID: 1883307
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

https://youtu.be/sOUKc7KgJiU

Turkey threatens to veto Sweden and Finland’s accession to NATO

Reply Quote

Date: 14/05/2022 21:42:55
From: dv
ID: 1883313
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/14/ukraine-has-won-the-battle-of-kharkiv-analysts-say-as-kyiv-warns-of-long-phase-of-war

Ukraine has won the battle of Kharkiv, analysts say, as Kyiv warns of ‘long phase of war’

US-based thinktank claims Russian troops are being pushed back eastwards from Ukraine’s second city, and aiming to use mercenaries

Reply Quote

Date: 15/05/2022 17:04:04
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1883629
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Russian troops kill on purpose their Lieutenant General in Ukraine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOSnq3QPU-I&ab_channel=JupiterNews

Reply Quote

Date: 15/05/2022 17:11:15
From: roughbarked
ID: 1883631
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


Russian troops kill on purpose their Lieutenant General in Ukraine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOSnq3QPU-I&ab_channel=JupiterNews

Well, one tank driver did it, if the report is factual.

Reply Quote

Date: 15/05/2022 17:39:27
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1883642
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

roughbarked said:


PermeateFree said:

Russian troops kill on purpose their Lieutenant General in Ukraine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOSnq3QPU-I&ab_channel=JupiterNews

Well, one tank driver did it, if the report is factual.

Only takes one to carry out the desire of the many.

Reply Quote

Date: 15/05/2022 17:48:19
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1883647
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


roughbarked said:

PermeateFree said:

Russian troops kill on purpose their Lieutenant General in Ukraine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOSnq3QPU-I&ab_channel=JupiterNews

Well, one tank driver did it, if the report is factual.

Only takes one to carry out the desire of the many.

Yes Russian moral is very low, with soldiers refusing to take orders, some shooting themselves in a leg to get taken out of the front line. Russian troops have had fire fights with the Chechen fighters who were shooting soldiers who deserted their positions. Most Russian soldiers do not want to be there, due to their high casualty rate.

Reply Quote

Date: 15/05/2022 18:07:11
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1883652
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:

Yes Russian moral is very low, with soldiers refusing to take orders, some shooting themselves in a leg to get taken out of the front line. Russian troops have had fire fights with the Chechen fighters who were shooting soldiers who deserted their positions. Most Russian soldiers do not want to be there, due to their high casualty rate.

Believe me, once they’ve heard the ‘angry mutant junkie hornet’ buzz of bullets going past, everyone wants to be somewhere else. Anywhere else.

Reply Quote

Date: 15/05/2022 18:25:22
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1883657
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


PermeateFree said:

Yes Russian moral is very low, with soldiers refusing to take orders, some shooting themselves in a leg to get taken out of the front line. Russian troops have had fire fights with the Chechen fighters who were shooting soldiers who deserted their positions. Most Russian soldiers do not want to be there, due to their high casualty rate.

Believe me, once they’ve heard the ‘angry mutant junkie hornet’ buzz of bullets going past, everyone wants to be somewhere else. Anywhere else.

More information regarding Russian troop low moral and what Putin has now done about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdtxfglF2oY&ab_channel=Sinyor

Reply Quote

Date: 15/05/2022 18:39:25
From: transition
ID: 1883660
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


captain_spalding said:

PermeateFree said:

Yes Russian moral is very low, with soldiers refusing to take orders, some shooting themselves in a leg to get taken out of the front line. Russian troops have had fire fights with the Chechen fighters who were shooting soldiers who deserted their positions. Most Russian soldiers do not want to be there, due to their high casualty rate.

Believe me, once they’ve heard the ‘angry mutant junkie hornet’ buzz of bullets going past, everyone wants to be somewhere else. Anywhere else.

More information regarding Russian troop low moral and what Putin has now done about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdtxfglF2oY&ab_channel=Sinyor

also the sort of things that makes very effective propaganda, hell I got so depressed and thought about shooting myself in the leg after reading about it

Reply Quote

Date: 15/05/2022 18:49:01
From: transition
ID: 1883665
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

noodles done licks lips plenty pepper in that

burp

slurps coffee alright, I make good coffee

Reply Quote

Date: 15/05/2022 18:49:34
From: transition
ID: 1883666
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

‘pologies

Reply Quote

Date: 15/05/2022 18:50:01
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1883668
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

transition said:


PermeateFree said:

captain_spalding said:

Believe me, once they’ve heard the ‘angry mutant junkie hornet’ buzz of bullets going past, everyone wants to be somewhere else. Anywhere else.

More information regarding Russian troop low moral and what Putin has now done about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdtxfglF2oY&ab_channel=Sinyor

also the sort of things that makes very effective propaganda, hell I got so depressed and thought about shooting myself in the leg after reading about it

This type of self harm is common to most wars, especially on the losing side and reflects morale.

Reply Quote

Date: 15/05/2022 18:50:24
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1883669
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

transition said:


‘pologies

s’alright

Fog of war and all that.

Reply Quote

Date: 15/05/2022 18:51:32
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1883672
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


transition said:

PermeateFree said:

More information regarding Russian troop low moral and what Putin has now done about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdtxfglF2oY&ab_channel=Sinyor

also the sort of things that makes very effective propaganda, hell I got so depressed and thought about shooting myself in the leg after reading about it

This type of self harm is common to most wars, especially on the losing side and reflects morale.

Also reflects a desire to not have your brains blown out the back of your head.

Reply Quote

Date: 15/05/2022 19:17:38
From: roughbarked
ID: 1883680
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


PermeateFree said:

transition said:

also the sort of things that makes very effective propaganda, hell I got so depressed and thought about shooting myself in the leg after reading about it

This type of self harm is common to most wars, especially on the losing side and reflects morale.

Also reflects a desire to not have your brains blown out the back of your head.

Yes well that could be a mitigating factor.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 15:40:16
From: Cymek
ID: 1884041
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

A catastrophe in many ways

Monastery in Ukraine’s Odesa treats cats injured and abandoned amid war against Russia

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-05-16/cat-hospital-refuge-ukraine-odesa/101070494

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 16:34:56
From: dv
ID: 1884080
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

https://youtu.be/dKBvBA-4gFo

UK Defence Intelligence estimates that Russia has lost one third of its ground forces.

Ukraine has regained control of Kharkhiv and surrounding area and pushed Russian troops back to the border.

Much of Russia’s forces are caught between two fronts preventing their progress towards the western Donbas.

No signing progress is being made in the SW where Russia is attempting to build a path to Transnistria.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 16:42:05
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1884081
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


https://youtu.be/dKBvBA-4gFo

UK Defence Intelligence estimates that Russia has lost one third of its ground forces.

Ukraine has regained control of Kharkhiv and surrounding area and pushed Russian troops back to the border.

Much of Russia’s forces are caught between two fronts preventing their progress towards the western Donbas.

No signing progress is being made in the SW where Russia is attempting to build a path to Transnistria.

Ukraine deployment or total ground forces?

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 16:42:35
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1884082
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


https://youtu.be/dKBvBA-4gFo

UK Defence Intelligence estimates that Russia has lost one third of its ground forces.

Ukraine has regained control of Kharkhiv and surrounding area and pushed Russian troops back to the border.

Much of Russia’s forces are caught between two fronts preventing their progress towards the western Donbas.

No signing progress is being made in the SW where Russia is attempting to build a path to Transnistria.

Apparently Ukraine now has 1 million troops against Russia’s 800,000. They know the country, have high morale and are getting supplied with modern weapons from the west, whilst Russia has low morale and are running down their weapons. So is Russia going to win this war? Personally I doubt it.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 16:52:44
From: Cymek
ID: 1884083
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


dv said:

https://youtu.be/dKBvBA-4gFo

UK Defence Intelligence estimates that Russia has lost one third of its ground forces.

Ukraine has regained control of Kharkhiv and surrounding area and pushed Russian troops back to the border.

Much of Russia’s forces are caught between two fronts preventing their progress towards the western Donbas.

No signing progress is being made in the SW where Russia is attempting to build a path to Transnistria.

Apparently Ukraine now has 1 million troops against Russia’s 800,000. They know the country, have high morale and are getting supplied with modern weapons from the west, whilst Russia has low morale and are running down their weapons. So is Russia going to win this war? Personally I doubt it.

Is that 800,000 in Ukraine or in total ?
I thought they had armies in Ukraine totalling 200,000 give or take

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 16:53:23
From: transition
ID: 1884084
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


dv said:

https://youtu.be/dKBvBA-4gFo

UK Defence Intelligence estimates that Russia has lost one third of its ground forces.

Ukraine has regained control of Kharkhiv and surrounding area and pushed Russian troops back to the border.

Much of Russia’s forces are caught between two fronts preventing their progress towards the western Donbas.

No signing progress is being made in the SW where Russia is attempting to build a path to Transnistria.

Apparently Ukraine now has 1 million troops against Russia’s 800,000. They know the country, have high morale and are getting supplied with modern weapons from the west, whilst Russia has low morale and are running down their weapons. So is Russia going to win this war? Personally I doubt it.

i’d expect the exorcism is just getting started, just warming up

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 16:55:00
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1884086
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


dv said:

https://youtu.be/dKBvBA-4gFo

UK Defence Intelligence estimates that Russia has lost one third of its ground forces.

Ukraine has regained control of Kharkhiv and surrounding area and pushed Russian troops back to the border.

Much of Russia’s forces are caught between two fronts preventing their progress towards the western Donbas.

No signing progress is being made in the SW where Russia is attempting to build a path to Transnistria.

Apparently Ukraine now has 1 million troops against Russia’s 800,000. They know the country, have high morale and are getting supplied with modern weapons from the west, whilst Russia has low morale and are running down their weapons. So is Russia going to win this war? Personally I doubt it.

A leader with narcissistic sociopath traits,with little empathy for the well being of others, a leader who failed to train his soldiers properly, failed to upgrade defense systems, failed to upgrade defense communications, failed to see the west properly, failed to see the response, failed in a lot of other areas.

I thought KGB operators were supposed to be good observers.

His observation to get into politics was acute, but then as time went on his observation failed him.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 16:56:24
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1884087
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

transition said:


PermeateFree said:

dv said:

https://youtu.be/dKBvBA-4gFo

UK Defence Intelligence estimates that Russia has lost one third of its ground forces.

Ukraine has regained control of Kharkhiv and surrounding area and pushed Russian troops back to the border.

Much of Russia’s forces are caught between two fronts preventing their progress towards the western Donbas.

No signing progress is being made in the SW where Russia is attempting to build a path to Transnistria.

Apparently Ukraine now has 1 million troops against Russia’s 800,000. They know the country, have high morale and are getting supplied with modern weapons from the west, whilst Russia has low morale and are running down their weapons. So is Russia going to win this war? Personally I doubt it.

i’d expect the exorcism is just getting started, just warming up

Russia needs more mobile crematoriums.

and they will need a huge one for Putin.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 16:58:53
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1884088
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Cymek said:


PermeateFree said:

dv said:

https://youtu.be/dKBvBA-4gFo

UK Defence Intelligence estimates that Russia has lost one third of its ground forces.

Ukraine has regained control of Kharkhiv and surrounding area and pushed Russian troops back to the border.

Much of Russia’s forces are caught between two fronts preventing their progress towards the western Donbas.

No signing progress is being made in the SW where Russia is attempting to build a path to Transnistria.

Apparently Ukraine now has 1 million troops against Russia’s 800,000. They know the country, have high morale and are getting supplied with modern weapons from the west, whilst Russia has low morale and are running down their weapons. So is Russia going to win this war? Personally I doubt it.

Is that 800,000 in Ukraine or in total ?
I thought they had armies in Ukraine totalling 200,000 give or take

Troops in Ukraine.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 16:59:16
From: transition
ID: 1884089
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Tau.Neutrino said:


transition said:

PermeateFree said:

Apparently Ukraine now has 1 million troops against Russia’s 800,000. They know the country, have high morale and are getting supplied with modern weapons from the west, whilst Russia has low morale and are running down their weapons. So is Russia going to win this war? Personally I doubt it.

i’d expect the exorcism is just getting started, just warming up

Russia needs more mobile crematoriums.

and they will need a huge one for Putin.

I wouldn’t get too excited, it’s not going to get any prettier, there won’t be any winners

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 17:00:01
From: Cymek
ID: 1884091
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Tau.Neutrino said:


PermeateFree said:

dv said:

https://youtu.be/dKBvBA-4gFo

UK Defence Intelligence estimates that Russia has lost one third of its ground forces.

Ukraine has regained control of Kharkhiv and surrounding area and pushed Russian troops back to the border.

Much of Russia’s forces are caught between two fronts preventing their progress towards the western Donbas.

No signing progress is being made in the SW where Russia is attempting to build a path to Transnistria.

Apparently Ukraine now has 1 million troops against Russia’s 800,000. They know the country, have high morale and are getting supplied with modern weapons from the west, whilst Russia has low morale and are running down their weapons. So is Russia going to win this war? Personally I doubt it.

A leader with narcissistic sociopath traits,with little empathy for the well being of others, a leader who failed to train his soldiers properly, failed to upgrade defense systems, failed to upgrade defense communications, failed to see the west properly, failed to see the response, failed in a lot of other areas.

I thought KGB operators were supposed to be good observers.

His observation to get into politics was acute, but then as time went on his observation failed him.

Speaking of the KGB, SBS had a documentary on Chernobyl the other week or so.
Reports taken from the KGB files are a large part of it.
Mentioned they reported back to authorities on the danger of a meltdown and were ignored as it was Soviet culture to pretend everything is OK as otherwise you may disappear

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 17:01:51
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1884092
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

transition said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

transition said:

i’d expect the exorcism is just getting started, just warming up

Russia needs more mobile crematoriums.

and they will need a huge one for Putin.

I wouldn’t get too excited, it’s not going to get any prettier, there won’t be any winners

Humanity never wins in any war.

And it seems its always people fighting other peoples wars.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 17:05:04
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1884093
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

You see a lot of burnt out Russian mobile crematoriums.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 17:05:46
From: Cymek
ID: 1884094
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Tau.Neutrino said:


transition said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Russia needs more mobile crematoriums.

and they will need a huge one for Putin.

I wouldn’t get too excited, it’s not going to get any prettier, there won’t be any winners

Humanity never wins in any war.

And it seems its always people fighting other peoples wars.

Set up systems so the down trodden get a better deal if they join the military, they fight and die for usually no good reason and when they return many are broken and ignored.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 17:05:48
From: Cymek
ID: 1884095
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Tau.Neutrino said:


transition said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Russia needs more mobile crematoriums.

and they will need a huge one for Putin.

I wouldn’t get too excited, it’s not going to get any prettier, there won’t be any winners

Humanity never wins in any war.

And it seems its always people fighting other peoples wars.

Set up systems so the down trodden get a better deal if they join the military, they fight and die for usually no good reason and when they return many are broken and ignored.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 17:06:53
From: Cymek
ID: 1884096
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Tau.Neutrino said:


You see a lot of burnt out Russian mobile crematoriums.

Yeah you’d be thinking I’m sweet in this tank, safe as one can be in a war and in reality probably higher chance of dying than a ground troop.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 17:07:58
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1884098
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Cymek said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

transition said:

I wouldn’t get too excited, it’s not going to get any prettier, there won’t be any winners

Humanity never wins in any war.

And it seems its always people fighting other peoples wars.

Set up systems so the down trodden get a better deal if they join the military, they fight and die for usually no good reason and when they return many are broken and ignored.

Yes, and they will have post traumatic stress disorder for the rest of their lives and their government will ignore them.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 17:14:04
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1884101
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Cymek said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

You see a lot of burnt out Russian mobile crematoriums.

Yeah you’d be thinking I’m sweet in this tank, safe as one can be in a war and in reality probably higher chance of dying than a ground troop.

They end up in column jams.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 17:21:32
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1884107
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

For Ukraine to drive Russia out of their country who invaded without any provocation, I would call it a win for them. Russia is a big fat bully boy who thought they were tougher than they are. Ukraine is just defending itself from this bully which in the circumstances it has no other option than to fight and hopefully put it back in its box.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 17:22:59
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1884109
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


For Ukraine to drive Russia out of their country who invaded without any provocation, I would call it a win for them. Russia is a big fat bully boy who thought they were tougher than they are. Ukraine is just defending itself from this bully which in the circumstances it has no other option than to fight and hopefully put it back in its box.

A slap in the face for Putin.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 17:24:09
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1884111
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Tau.Neutrino said:


PermeateFree said:

For Ukraine to drive Russia out of their country who invaded without any provocation, I would call it a win for them. Russia is a big fat bully boy who thought they were tougher than they are. Ukraine is just defending itself from this bully which in the circumstances it has no other option than to fight and hopefully put it back in its box.

A slap in the face for Putin.

His girlfriend should disclaim him and find someone else.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 17:26:16
From: Cymek
ID: 1884112
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


For Ukraine to drive Russia out of their country who invaded without any provocation, I would call it a win for them. Russia is a big fat bully boy who thought they were tougher than they are. Ukraine is just defending itself from this bully which in the circumstances it has no other option than to fight and hopefully put it back in its box.

Better to fight than give in and become what I imagine is a second class citizen in a police state.
Once you surrender you’s likely have no chance at resistance

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 17:26:54
From: Cymek
ID: 1884113
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Tau.Neutrino said:


PermeateFree said:

For Ukraine to drive Russia out of their country who invaded without any provocation, I would call it a win for them. Russia is a big fat bully boy who thought they were tougher than they are. Ukraine is just defending itself from this bully which in the circumstances it has no other option than to fight and hopefully put it back in its box.

A slap in the face for Putin.

Turkey or otherwise

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 17:28:25
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1884114
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Cymek said:


PermeateFree said:

For Ukraine to drive Russia out of their country who invaded without any provocation, I would call it a win for them. Russia is a big fat bully boy who thought they were tougher than they are. Ukraine is just defending itself from this bully which in the circumstances it has no other option than to fight and hopefully put it back in its box.

Better to fight than give in and become what I imagine is a second class citizen in a police state.
Once you surrender you’s likely have no chance at resistance

I would hate being a borg relic programmed with outdated political propaganda.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 17:31:47
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1884115
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Tau.Neutrino said:


Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

For Ukraine to drive Russia out of their country who invaded without any provocation, I would call it a win for them. Russia is a big fat bully boy who thought they were tougher than they are. Ukraine is just defending itself from this bully which in the circumstances it has no other option than to fight and hopefully put it back in its box.

Better to fight than give in and become what I imagine is a second class citizen in a police state.
Once you surrender you’s likely have no chance at resistance

I would hate being a borg relic programmed with outdated political propaganda.

I think Russia has committed crimes against humanity by behaving towards other countries and the Russian population the way they do.

No regard for the world.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 20:05:00
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1884157
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Growing evidence of a military disaster on the Donets pierces a pro-Russian bubble.

May 15, 2022, 11:01 a.m.

The destruction wreaked on a Russian battalion as it tried to cross a river in northeastern Ukraine last week is emerging as among the deadliest engagements of the war, with estimates based on publicly available evidence now suggesting that well over 400 Russian soldiers were killed or wounded.

And as the scale of what happened comes into sharper focus, the disaster appears to be breaking through the Kremlin’s tightly controlled information bubble.

Perhaps most striking, the Russian battlefield failure is resonating with a stable of pro-Russian war bloggers — some of whom are embedded with troops on the front line — who have reliably posted to the social network Telegram with claims of Russian success and Ukrainian cowardice.

“The commentary by these widely read milbloggers may fuel burgeoning doubts in Russia about Russia’s prospects in this war and the competence of Russia’s military leaders,” the Institute for the Study of War, a Washington-based research body, wrote over the weekend.

On May 11, the Russian command reportedly sent about 550 troops of the 74th Motorized Rifle Brigade of the 41st Combined Arms Army to cross the Donets River at Bilohorivka, in the eastern Luhansk region, in a bid to encircle Ukrainian forces near Rubizhne.

Satellite images reveal that Ukrainian artillery destroyed several Russian pontoon bridges and laid waste to a tight concentration of Russian troops and equipment around the river.

The Institute for the Study of War, citing analyses based on the publicly available imagery, indicated that there could have been as many as 485 Russian soldiers killed or wounded and more than 80 pieces of equipment destroyed.

As the news of the losses at the river crossing in Bilohorivka started to spread, some Russian bloggers did not appear to hold back in their criticism of what they said was incompetent leadership.

“I’ve been keeping quiet for a long time,” Yuri Podolyaka, a war blogger with 2.1 million followers on Telegram, said in a video posted on Friday, saying that he had avoided criticizing the Russian military until now.

“The last straw that overwhelmed my patience was the events around Bilohorivka, where due to stupidity — I emphasize, because of the stupidity of the Russian command — at least one battalion tactical group was burned, possibly two.”

Mr. Podolyaka ridiculed the Kremlin line that the war is going “according to plan.” He told his viewers in a five-minute video that, in fact, the Russian Army was short of functional unmanned drones, night-vision equipment and other kit “that is catastrophically lacking on the front.”

“Yes, I understand that it’s impossible for there to be no problems in war,” he said. “But when the same problems go on for three months, and nothing seems to be changing, then I personally and in fact millions of citizens of the Russian Federation start to have questions for these leaders of the military operation.”

Another popular blogger, who goes by Starshe Eddy on Telegram, wrote that the fact that commanders left so much of their force exposed amounted to “not idiocy, but direct sabotage.”

On the ground. Russia has “lost momentum” in its campaign to seize Ukraine’s eastern Donbas region, Britain’s Defense Ministry said in a report. The agency said that Moscow “has now likely suffered losses of one-third of the ground combat forces it committed in February.”

And a third, Vladlen Tatarski, posted that Russia’s eastern offensive was moving slowly not just because of a lack of surveillance drones but also “these generals” and their tactics.

“Until we get the last name of the military genius who laid down a B.T.G. by the river and he answers for it publicly, we won’t have had any military reforms,” Mr. Tatarski wrote.

Western military analysts have also pored over the imagery and say the attempted crossing demonstrated a stunning lack of tactical sense.

They have speculated that Russian commanders, desperate to make progress, rushed the operation. Some also suggested that it was a reflection of disorder in the Russian ranks.

If the estimates that hundreds of soldiers were killed or injured prove accurate, it would be one of the deadliest known engagements of the war.

There were more than 500 sailors aboard the Russian Black Sea flagship Moskva when it was struck by a Ukrainian missile in April. The Kremlin at first insisted that all the sailors were rescued, later saying one was killed. But even as the families of missing sailors have publicly demanded answers, the Kremlin has largely kept up an official silence on the fate of the crew, part of a larger campaign to suppress bad news.

Anton Troianovski is the Moscow bureau chief for The New York Times. He was previously Moscow bureau chief of The Washington Post and spent nine years with The Wall Street Journal in Berlin and New York. @antontroian

Marc Santora is the International News Editor based in London, focusing on breaking news events. He was previously the Bureau Chief for East and Central Europe based in Warsaw. He has also reported extensively from Iraq and Africa.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/15/world/europe/pro-russian-war-bloggers-kremlin.html?

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 20:24:39
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1884162
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

The G7 countries have confiscated over 100 billion euros from Russia that will be handed to Ukraine to rebuild their country.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 20:29:53
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1884167
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


https://youtu.be/dKBvBA-4gFo

UK Defence Intelligence estimates that Russia has lost one third of its ground forces.

Ukraine has regained control of Kharkhiv and surrounding area and pushed Russian troops back to the border.

Much of Russia’s forces are caught between two fronts preventing their progress towards the western Donbas.

No signing progress is being made in the SW where Russia is attempting to build a path to Transnistria.

Note that that is in reference to their ground forces in Ukraine, not their full army.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 20:41:17
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1884172
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Witty Rejoinder said:


Growing evidence of a military disaster on the Donets pierces a pro-Russian bubble.

May 15, 2022, 11:01 a.m.

The destruction wreaked on a Russian battalion as it tried to cross a river in northeastern Ukraine last week is emerging as among the deadliest engagements of the war, with estimates based on publicly available evidence now suggesting that well over 400 Russian soldiers were killed or wounded.

And as the scale of what happened comes into sharper focus, the disaster appears to be breaking through the Kremlin’s tightly controlled information bubble.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/15/world/europe/pro-russian-war-bloggers-kremlin.html?

Putin was going full Hitler right from the start – ordering his generals to carry out sweeping strategic and tactical advances with neither sufficient preparation nor knowledge of what resistance they would encounter, and failing to learn from the blunders as they unfold.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 20:48:57
From: dv
ID: 1884177
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Tau.Neutrino said:


You see a lot of burnt out Russian mobile crematoriums.

How ironic

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 20:51:34
From: dv
ID: 1884179
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


For Ukraine to drive Russia out of their country who invaded without any provocation, I would call it a win for them. Russia is a big fat bully boy who thought they were tougher than they are. Ukraine is just defending itself from this bully which in the circumstances it has no other option than to fight and hopefully put it back in its box.

If they can reinforce sovereignty over the Donbas that’d be good.

I suppose Crimea is a lost cause by now.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 20:54:03
From: transition
ID: 1884180
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


For Ukraine to drive Russia out of their country who invaded without any provocation, I would call it a win for them. Russia is a big fat bully boy who thought they were tougher than they are. Ukraine is just defending itself from this bully which in the circumstances it has no other option than to fight and hopefully put it back in its box.

was it entirely without provocation, really

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 20:54:45
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1884181
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

transition said:


PermeateFree said:

For Ukraine to drive Russia out of their country who invaded without any provocation, I would call it a win for them. Russia is a big fat bully boy who thought they were tougher than they are. Ukraine is just defending itself from this bully which in the circumstances it has no other option than to fight and hopefully put it back in its box.

was it entirely without provocation, really

Um, yes.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 20:55:58
From: transition
ID: 1884182
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


transition said:

PermeateFree said:

For Ukraine to drive Russia out of their country who invaded without any provocation, I would call it a win for them. Russia is a big fat bully boy who thought they were tougher than they are. Ukraine is just defending itself from this bully which in the circumstances it has no other option than to fight and hopefully put it back in its box.

was it entirely without provocation, really

Um, yes.

you know that absolutely to be the case

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 20:55:59
From: party_pants
ID: 1884183
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

transition said:


PermeateFree said:

For Ukraine to drive Russia out of their country who invaded without any provocation, I would call it a win for them. Russia is a big fat bully boy who thought they were tougher than they are. Ukraine is just defending itself from this bully which in the circumstances it has no other option than to fight and hopefully put it back in its box.

was it entirely without provocation, really

Yes.

But then you could argue that provocation is in the eye of the beholder.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 20:56:15
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1884184
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


transition said:

PermeateFree said:

For Ukraine to drive Russia out of their country who invaded without any provocation, I would call it a win for them. Russia is a big fat bully boy who thought they were tougher than they are. Ukraine is just defending itself from this bully which in the circumstances it has no other option than to fight and hopefully put it back in its box.

was it entirely without provocation, really

Um, yes.

…unless you call Ukraine defending itself during 8 years of Russian incursions a “provocation”.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 20:56:31
From: sibeen
ID: 1884185
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


transition said:

PermeateFree said:

For Ukraine to drive Russia out of their country who invaded without any provocation, I would call it a win for them. Russia is a big fat bully boy who thought they were tougher than they are. Ukraine is just defending itself from this bully which in the circumstances it has no other option than to fight and hopefully put it back in its box.

was it entirely without provocation, really

Um, yes.

Hold on, Ukraine was threatening to become a full on democracy with human rights and all the shit that entails. It was quite severe provocation.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 21:00:06
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1884189
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

sibeen said:


Bubblecar said:

transition said:

was it entirely without provocation, really

Um, yes.

Hold on, Ukraine was threatening to become a full on democracy with human rights and all the shit that entails. It was quite severe provocation.

That’s true, and of course they were even wanting to provide their people with a decent standard of living by joining the EU.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 21:01:08
From: sibeen
ID: 1884190
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


sibeen said:

Bubblecar said:

Um, yes.

Hold on, Ukraine was threatening to become a full on democracy with human rights and all the shit that entails. It was quite severe provocation.

That’s true, and of course they were even wanting to provide their people with a decent standard of living by joining the EU.

The cunts. Putin had no other option.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 21:04:09
From: dv
ID: 1884191
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


The G7 countries have confiscated over 100 billion euros from Russia that will be handed to Ukraine to rebuild their country.

Noice

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 21:04:34
From: dv
ID: 1884192
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:


dv said:

https://youtu.be/dKBvBA-4gFo

UK Defence Intelligence estimates that Russia has lost one third of its ground forces.

Ukraine has regained control of Kharkhiv and surrounding area and pushed Russian troops back to the border.

Much of Russia’s forces are caught between two fronts preventing their progress towards the western Donbas.

No signing progress is being made in the SW where Russia is attempting to build a path to Transnistria.

Note that that is in reference to their ground forces in Ukraine, not their full army.

Yes

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 21:25:02
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1884207
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


PermeateFree said:

For Ukraine to drive Russia out of their country who invaded without any provocation, I would call it a win for them. Russia is a big fat bully boy who thought they were tougher than they are. Ukraine is just defending itself from this bully which in the circumstances it has no other option than to fight and hopefully put it back in its box.

If they can reinforce sovereignty over the Donbas that’d be good.

I suppose Crimea is a lost cause by now.

I don’t think so, they are getting a heap of super advanced weaponry from various countries that far out perform what Russia has. The new Howitzers can fire up to 40 miles, whereas the Russians can only do around 18, so on artillery alone they are out gunned. Some of this equipment is in Ukrainian hands now and Russia is currently either bogged down or in retreat, but there is much more weaponry to come that will really give Russia a big headache. The top Russian brass must know theirs is a lost cause.

And they don’t have a huge army in reserve, unless they declare war on Ukraine, when they can call up very large numbers, but most of these are untrained in modern weapon use. Russia is fast moving into a checkmate position.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 21:50:16
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1884215
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Ой у лузі червона калина

(Oh, the Red Viburnum in the Meadow, a Ukrainian song banned by the Russians)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUFOqfZNI6E

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 21:52:34
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1884216
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


The G7 countries have confiscated over 100 billion euros from Russia that will be handed to Ukraine to rebuild their country.

Take that Putin.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 21:53:03
From: dv
ID: 1884217
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


Ой у лузі червона калина

(Oh, the Red Viburnum in the Meadow, a Ukrainian song banned by the Russians)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUFOqfZNI6E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saEpkcVi1d4
Pink Floyd – Hey Hey Rise Up (feat. Andriy Khlyvnyuk of Boombox)

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 21:54:51
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1884218
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


Witty Rejoinder said:

Growing evidence of a military disaster on the Donets pierces a pro-Russian bubble.

May 15, 2022, 11:01 a.m.

The destruction wreaked on a Russian battalion as it tried to cross a river in northeastern Ukraine last week is emerging as among the deadliest engagements of the war, with estimates based on publicly available evidence now suggesting that well over 400 Russian soldiers were killed or wounded.

And as the scale of what happened comes into sharper focus, the disaster appears to be breaking through the Kremlin’s tightly controlled information bubble.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/15/world/europe/pro-russian-war-bloggers-kremlin.html?

Putin was going full Hitler right from the start – ordering his generals to carry out sweeping strategic and tactical advances with neither sufficient preparation nor knowledge of what resistance they would encounter, and failing to learn from the blunders as they unfold.

One wonders what is going on in his mind?

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 21:59:27
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1884219
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


Bubblecar said:

Ой у лузі червона калина

(Oh, the Red Viburnum in the Meadow, a Ukrainian song banned by the Russians)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUFOqfZNI6E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saEpkcVi1d4
Pink Floyd – Hey Hey Rise Up (feat. Andriy Khlyvnyuk of Boombox)

Ta lads.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 22:11:59
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1884220
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


dv said:

Bubblecar said:

Ой у лузі червона калина

(Oh, the Red Viburnum in the Meadow, a Ukrainian song banned by the Russians)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUFOqfZNI6E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saEpkcVi1d4
Pink Floyd – Hey Hey Rise Up (feat. Andriy Khlyvnyuk of Boombox)

Ta lads.

…Ukraine’s jury points in Eurovision went to UK :)

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 22:31:45
From: Arts
ID: 1884221
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

today I learned about the history of the current president of Ukraine. it was quite a wild ride

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 22:43:40
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1884222
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Arts said:


today I learned about the history of the current president of Ukraine. it was quite a wild ride

He’s an improbable hero and a convincing one, at the same time.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 22:49:10
From: Arts
ID: 1884223
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


Arts said:

today I learned about the history of the current president of Ukraine. it was quite a wild ride

He’s an improbable hero and a convincing one, at the same time.

I would say accidental hero, however, the people spoke and they get what they get.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 22:58:04
From: sibeen
ID: 1884224
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Arts said:


Bubblecar said:

Arts said:

today I learned about the history of the current president of Ukraine. it was quite a wild ride

He’s an improbable hero and a convincing one, at the same time.

I would say accidental hero, however, the people spoke and they get what they get.

I doubt many here would agree with that if Scotty gets up on Saturday.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 23:00:28
From: party_pants
ID: 1884225
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Arts said:


Bubblecar said:

Arts said:

today I learned about the history of the current president of Ukraine. it was quite a wild ride

He’s an improbable hero and a convincing one, at the same time.

I would say accidental hero, however, the people spoke and they get what they get.

Maybe he had it planned all along. He must have known that day would come.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 23:07:04
From: Arts
ID: 1884226
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

party_pants said:


Arts said:

Bubblecar said:

He’s an improbable hero and a convincing one, at the same time.

I would say accidental hero, however, the people spoke and they get what they get.

Maybe he had it planned all along. He must have known that day would come.

nah..

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 23:10:29
From: party_pants
ID: 1884227
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Arts said:


party_pants said:

Arts said:

I would say accidental hero, however, the people spoke and they get what they get.

Maybe he had it planned all along. He must have known that day would come.

nah..

It would be high on the list for any new Ukraine PM or President – what to do about Russia.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 23:17:13
From: Woodie
ID: 1884229
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Arts said:


today I learned about the history of the current president of Ukraine. it was quite a wild ride

There was that SBS doco a few weeks ago about him from his childhood. Quite informative. It’s probably still on SBS On Demand somewhere

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 23:23:37
From: Woodie
ID: 1884230
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Woodie said:


Arts said:

today I learned about the history of the current president of Ukraine. it was quite a wild ride

There was that SBS doco a few weeks ago about him from his childhood. Quite informative. It’s probably still on SBS On Demand somewhere

https://www.sbs.com.au/ondemand/video/2023040579635/zelenskyy-the-story 56 mins

and this shorter one.

https://www.sbs.com.au/ondemand/video/2011861571877/zelenskyy-the-man-who-took-on-putin 25 mins

Reply Quote

Date: 16/05/2022 23:48:54
From: dv
ID: 1884231
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

sibeen said:


Arts said:

Bubblecar said:

He’s an improbable hero and a convincing one, at the same time.

I would say accidental hero, however, the people spoke and they get what they get.

I doubt many here would agree with that if Scotty gets up on Saturday.

I mean it’s literally true though.

Reply Quote

Date: 17/05/2022 01:18:23
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1884249
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Arts said:


today I learned about the history of the current president of Ukraine. it was quite a wild ride

The first episode of his TV show is on youtube, it is a bit different, but watchable.

Reply Quote

Date: 17/05/2022 01:27:26
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1884251
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-may-14

Russian forces made significant tactical mistakes during the attempted large-scale crossing of the Siverskyi Donets River from Kreminna. The Russian command reportedly sent 550 servicemen of the 74th Motorized Rifle Brigade of the 41st Combined Arms Army to cross the Siverskyi Donets River in order to encircle Ukrainian forces near Rubizhne from the northwest. Ukrainian artillery destroyed the Russian pontoon bridges and tightly-concentrated Russian troops and equipment around them on May 11, which reportedly resulted in 485 casualties and damages to over 80 pieces of equipment. The 74th Motorized Rifle Brigade had previously attempted a river crossing (over the Desna River in Chernihiv Oblast on March 8) without suffering such setbacks. The unit’s command and staff may have failed to recognize the dangers that Ukraine’s improving artillery capabilities posed two months later, or may simply have been incompetent or unable to control their troops.

I am guessing the 74th Motorized Rifle Brigade of the 41st Combined Arms Army is pretty much out of the game.

Reply Quote

Date: 17/05/2022 01:39:15
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1884253
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Reply Quote

Date: 17/05/2022 02:04:13
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1884254
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:



“Speaking at today’s CSTO summit, Putin said that NATO membership alone for Finland and Sweden poses no threat to Russia, but Moscow will respond in kind to any buildup of military infrastructure in these nations. Russia’s response will depend on the buildup.”

Reply Quote

Date: 17/05/2022 02:17:45
From: diddly-squat
ID: 1884259
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:


https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-may-14

Russian forces made significant tactical mistakes during the attempted large-scale crossing of the Siverskyi Donets River from Kreminna. The Russian command reportedly sent 550 servicemen of the 74th Motorized Rifle Brigade of the 41st Combined Arms Army to cross the Siverskyi Donets River in order to encircle Ukrainian forces near Rubizhne from the northwest. Ukrainian artillery destroyed the Russian pontoon bridges and tightly-concentrated Russian troops and equipment around them on May 11, which reportedly resulted in 485 casualties and damages to over 80 pieces of equipment. The 74th Motorized Rifle Brigade had previously attempted a river crossing (over the Desna River in Chernihiv Oblast on March 8) without suffering such setbacks. The unit’s command and staff may have failed to recognize the dangers that Ukraine’s improving artillery capabilities posed two months later, or may simply have been incompetent or unable to control their troops.

I am guessing the 74th Motorized Rifle Brigade of the 41st Combined Arms Army is pretty much out of the game.

I thins graphic about this the other day…

Reply Quote

Date: 17/05/2022 02:21:32
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1884260
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

diddly-squat said:


Dark Orange said:

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-may-14

Russian forces made significant tactical mistakes during the attempted large-scale crossing of the Siverskyi Donets River from Kreminna. The Russian command reportedly sent 550 servicemen of the 74th Motorized Rifle Brigade of the 41st Combined Arms Army to cross the Siverskyi Donets River in order to encircle Ukrainian forces near Rubizhne from the northwest. Ukrainian artillery destroyed the Russian pontoon bridges and tightly-concentrated Russian troops and equipment around them on May 11, which reportedly resulted in 485 casualties and damages to over 80 pieces of equipment. The 74th Motorized Rifle Brigade had previously attempted a river crossing (over the Desna River in Chernihiv Oblast on March 8) without suffering such setbacks. The unit’s command and staff may have failed to recognize the dangers that Ukraine’s improving artillery capabilities posed two months later, or may simply have been incompetent or unable to control their troops.

I am guessing the 74th Motorized Rifle Brigade of the 41st Combined Arms Army is pretty much out of the game.

I thins graphic about this the other day…

That’s pretty smart way to do it.

Reply Quote

Date: 17/05/2022 02:26:21
From: diddly-squat
ID: 1884261
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:


diddly-squat said:

Dark Orange said:

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-may-14

Russian forces made significant tactical mistakes during the attempted large-scale crossing of the Siverskyi Donets River from Kreminna. The Russian command reportedly sent 550 servicemen of the 74th Motorized Rifle Brigade of the 41st Combined Arms Army to cross the Siverskyi Donets River in order to encircle Ukrainian forces near Rubizhne from the northwest. Ukrainian artillery destroyed the Russian pontoon bridges and tightly-concentrated Russian troops and equipment around them on May 11, which reportedly resulted in 485 casualties and damages to over 80 pieces of equipment. The 74th Motorized Rifle Brigade had previously attempted a river crossing (over the Desna River in Chernihiv Oblast on March 8) without suffering such setbacks. The unit’s command and staff may have failed to recognize the dangers that Ukraine’s improving artillery capabilities posed two months later, or may simply have been incompetent or unable to control their troops.

I am guessing the 74th Motorized Rifle Brigade of the 41st Combined Arms Army is pretty much out of the game.

I thins graphic about this the other day…

That’s pretty smart way to do it.

step one: turn the map around and think “what would I do if I were the enemy”

Reply Quote

Date: 17/05/2022 04:12:08
From: Ian
ID: 1884265
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Woodie said:


Woodie said:

Arts said:

today I learned about the history of the current president of Ukraine. it was quite a wild ride

There was that SBS doco a few weeks ago about him from his childhood. Quite informative. It’s probably still on SBS On Demand somewhere

https://www.sbs.com.au/ondemand/video/2023040579635/zelenskyy-the-story 56 mins

and this shorter one.

https://www.sbs.com.au/ondemand/video/2011861571877/zelenskyy-the-man-who-took-on-putin 25 mins

The greatest comedian/head of state since… Dubya?

Reply Quote

Date: 17/05/2022 09:02:17
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1884278
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:


diddly-squat said:

I thins graphic about this the other day…

That’s pretty smart way to do it.

Textbook example.

Reply Quote

Date: 17/05/2022 09:06:13
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1884282
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Dark Orange said:

diddly-squat said:

I thins graphic about this the other day…

That’s pretty smart way to do it.

Textbook example.

textbook smarts ¿

Reply Quote

Date: 17/05/2022 14:19:11
From: dv
ID: 1884399
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-05-17/artist-scone-cwa-make-giant-sunflower-quilt-for-ukraine/101069996

Giant sunflower quilt destined for bombed buildings, muddy graveyards of Ukraine

Like the famous artist Christo, who wrapped some of the world’s most iconic landmarks in silk, an Australian artist wants to wrap the bombed buildings and muddy graveyards of Ukraine in fabric.

But not just any fabric. It will be a quilt of sunflower patches.

“It’s like a giant hug for Ukraine, especially for the children,” artist Janno McLaughlin said as she sat in her WWII army depot home in Scone, in the NSW Hunter Valley.

——

jesus fucking christ

Reply Quote

Date: 17/05/2022 14:25:31
From: buffy
ID: 1884402
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-05-17/artist-scone-cwa-make-giant-sunflower-quilt-for-ukraine/101069996

Giant sunflower quilt destined for bombed buildings, muddy graveyards of Ukraine

Like the famous artist Christo, who wrapped some of the world’s most iconic landmarks in silk, an Australian artist wants to wrap the bombed buildings and muddy graveyards of Ukraine in fabric.

But not just any fabric. It will be a quilt of sunflower patches.

“It’s like a giant hug for Ukraine, especially for the children,” artist Janno McLaughlin said as she sat in her WWII army depot home in Scone, in the NSW Hunter Valley.

——

jesus fucking christ

I didn’t get past the headline. My first thought was sunflower seeds around the bombed areas might be a nice thing until they can put it all back together. But then I realized it was something else and stopped bothering.

Reply Quote

Date: 17/05/2022 14:55:55
From: dv
ID: 1884412
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

It appears that the bad guys have won the battle for Mariupol

Reply Quote

Date: 17/05/2022 15:02:34
From: dv
ID: 1884415
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

By the side of a remote road in the northern Chernihiv region of Ukraine, Mykola shows the unmarked grave in which he and his two brothers were buried three-and-a-half weeks after the war began, in land seized by Russian forces. All three had been shot; he was the only one to survive.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/05/16/europe/ukrainian-tortured-russian-soldiers-intl/index.html

Reply Quote

Date: 17/05/2022 15:14:46
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1884420
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

buffy said:


dv said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-05-17/artist-scone-cwa-make-giant-sunflower-quilt-for-ukraine/101069996

Giant sunflower quilt destined for bombed buildings, muddy graveyards of Ukraine

Like the famous artist Christo, who wrapped some of the world’s most iconic landmarks in silk, an Australian artist wants to wrap the bombed buildings and muddy graveyards of Ukraine in fabric.

But not just any fabric. It will be a quilt of sunflower patches.

“It’s like a giant hug for Ukraine, especially for the children,” artist Janno McLaughlin said as she sat in her WWII army depot home in Scone, in the NSW Hunter Valley.

——

jesus fucking christ

I didn’t get past the headline. My first thought was sunflower seeds around the bombed areas might be a nice thing until they can put it all back together. But then I realized it was something else and stopped bothering.

Could whoever would be sponsoring this gargantuan wank not just take the money that they’d be spending on it, and give to an appropriate relief organisation?

Reply Quote

Date: 17/05/2022 15:15:56
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1884421
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


It appears that the bad guys have won the battle for Mariupol

They shouldn’t plan to be there long-term.

Reply Quote

Date: 17/05/2022 15:19:10
From: sibeen
ID: 1884423
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


dv said:

It appears that the bad guys have won the battle for Mariupol

They shouldn’t plan to be there long-term.

They know they can dig in for a while.

Reply Quote

Date: 17/05/2022 15:22:54
From: dv
ID: 1884425
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


buffy said:

dv said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-05-17/artist-scone-cwa-make-giant-sunflower-quilt-for-ukraine/101069996

Giant sunflower quilt destined for bombed buildings, muddy graveyards of Ukraine

Like the famous artist Christo, who wrapped some of the world’s most iconic landmarks in silk, an Australian artist wants to wrap the bombed buildings and muddy graveyards of Ukraine in fabric.

But not just any fabric. It will be a quilt of sunflower patches.

“It’s like a giant hug for Ukraine, especially for the children,” artist Janno McLaughlin said as she sat in her WWII army depot home in Scone, in the NSW Hunter Valley.

——

jesus fucking christ

I didn’t get past the headline. My first thought was sunflower seeds around the bombed areas might be a nice thing until they can put it all back together. But then I realized it was something else and stopped bothering.

Could whoever would be sponsoring this gargantuan wank not just take the money that they’d be spending on it, and give to an appropriate relief organisation?

Grotesque narcissism

Anton Marvelton : I go to places where the children have neither food nor clean water and I give them magic.

Reporter in Cambodia : Do you also give them food and clean water?

Anton Marvelton : Well, no, I’m a magician – I bring magic.

Reply Quote

Date: 17/05/2022 15:25:10
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1884426
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


It appears that the bad guys have won the battle for Mariupol

The Ukrainians did what they set out to do, which was to keep a large proportion of Russian resources tied up. I cannot even imagine what 80 odd days of that does to a person.

Reply Quote

Date: 17/05/2022 15:27:31
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1884427
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

sibeen said:


captain_spalding said:

dv said:

It appears that the bad guys have won the battle for Mariupol

They shouldn’t plan to be there long-term.

They know they can dig in for a while.

I suggest that they dig to a depth of about two metres.

I mean, some of them will be staying there long-term.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/05/2022 18:53:19
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1884775
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Two Russian aircraft.

Ukrainians got them both.

https://imgur.com/gallery/GnRVa64

Reply Quote

Date: 18/05/2022 18:56:09
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1884777
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Looked pretty real, didn’t it?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10827315/Retired-four-star-general-shares-video-game-footage-claims-Russian-war.html

Yeah, i know it’s the D-a-a-a-i-i-i-l-y M-a-a-a-a-i-l, but…

Reply Quote

Date: 18/05/2022 20:47:03
From: transition
ID: 1884869
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Looked pretty real, didn’t it?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10827315/Retired-four-star-general-shares-video-game-footage-claims-Russian-war.html

Yeah, i know it’s the D-a-a-a-i-i-i-l-y M-a-a-a-a-i-l, but…

https://youtu.be/GANsRIiiXjA?t=14

Reply Quote

Date: 18/05/2022 23:13:56
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1884888
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Young spy commits high treason for $10, may spend the rest of his life in prison.

‘He’s ours’: Ukraine secret police catch a suspected spy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2rEc4MPp-4

Reply Quote

Date: 19/05/2022 15:41:30
From: dv
ID: 1885050
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

https://youtu.be/AkcTN9E33eI

EU announces 300 billion Euro plan to “Repower Europe”, in order decarbonise the economy and reduce reliance on Russian fossil fuels.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 09:45:04
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1885290
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Russia seems to be having middle-management issues.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 11:45:12
From: transition
ID: 1885312
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:


Russia seems to be having middle-management issues.

some nameless text that is, attributable to nobody

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 12:02:29
From: Michael V
ID: 1885317
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

transition said:


Dark Orange said:

Russia seems to be having middle-management issues.

some nameless text that is, attributable to nobody

Top left corner: British Defence Intelligence. They do a daily public update on the Ukraine invasion.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 12:14:59
From: transition
ID: 1885321
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Michael V said:


transition said:

Dark Orange said:

Russia seems to be having middle-management issues.

some nameless text that is, attributable to nobody

Top left corner: British Defence Intelligence. They do a daily public update on the Ukraine invasion.

has nobody’s name on it, and reads like propaganda

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 12:22:51
From: Michael V
ID: 1885324
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

transition said:


Michael V said:

transition said:

some nameless text that is, attributable to nobody

Top left corner: British Defence Intelligence. They do a daily public update on the Ukraine invasion.

has nobody’s name on it, and reads like propaganda

It’s propaganda alright. I don’t think British Defence Intelligence is going to publicly announce all they think they know.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 12:24:57
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1885325
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

transition said:


Michael V said:

transition said:

some nameless text that is, attributable to nobody

Top left corner: British Defence Intelligence. They do a daily public update on the Ukraine invasion.

has nobody’s name on it, and reads like propaganda

Why would it have anyone’s name on it?

Seems you’re keen to find reasons to back the aggressors in this invasion.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 12:26:08
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1885326
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Michael V said:


transition said:

Michael V said:

Top left corner: British Defence Intelligence. They do a daily public update on the Ukraine invasion.

has nobody’s name on it, and reads like propaganda

It’s propaganda alright. I don’t think British Defence Intelligence is going to publicly announce all they think they know.

It’s not “propaganda”, it’s an assessment of what’s going on in this particular conflict, which is part of the intelligence service’s duties.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 12:27:48
From: Michael V
ID: 1885327
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Michael V said:


transition said:

Michael V said:

Top left corner: British Defence Intelligence. They do a daily public update on the Ukraine invasion.

has nobody’s name on it, and reads like propaganda

It’s propaganda alright. I don’t think British Defence Intelligence is going to publicly announce all they think they know.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_Intelligence

Note their logo.

Defence Intelligence do their stuff daily on twitter. The ABC was re-publishing their tweets daily, but they’ve slowed down their Ukraine reporting.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 12:34:05
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1885328
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

And their assessment of the Russian command problems is realistically typical of situations in which the military are under the command of a dictator who has surrounded himself with yes-men.

He’ll issue impossible or impractical orders, they’ll say: “Yes Sir!” then delegate the orders to officers who also know they’re not achievable, with every stage of command then seeking someone or something else to blame when the operation fails.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 12:35:53
From: transition
ID: 1885329
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


Michael V said:

transition said:

has nobody’s name on it, and reads like propaganda

It’s propaganda alright. I don’t think British Defence Intelligence is going to publicly announce all they think they know.

It’s not “propaganda”, it’s an assessment of what’s going on in this particular conflict, which is part of the intelligence service’s duties.

good luck with that unreality, I guess you’re similarly convinced by your own internal press agent without much contradiction

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 12:36:57
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1885331
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

transition said:


Bubblecar said:

Michael V said:

It’s propaganda alright. I don’t think British Defence Intelligence is going to publicly announce all they think they know.

It’s not “propaganda”, it’s an assessment of what’s going on in this particular conflict, which is part of the intelligence service’s duties.

good luck with that unreality, I guess you’re similarly convinced by your own internal press agent without much contradiction

You’re an ignorant fool at times, let it be said.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 12:41:18
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1885333
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


transition said:

Bubblecar said:

It’s not “propaganda”, it’s an assessment of what’s going on in this particular conflict, which is part of the intelligence service’s duties.

good luck with that unreality, I guess you’re similarly convinced by your own internal press agent without much contradiction

You’re an ignorant fool at times, let it be said.

…and a moral coward, unwilling to identify evil when it’s staring you in the face, because that would upset your cool “contrarian” pose.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 12:42:24
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1885334
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

transition said:


Bubblecar said:

Michael V said:

It’s propaganda alright. I don’t think British Defence Intelligence is going to publicly announce all they think they know.

It’s not “propaganda”, it’s an assessment of what’s going on in this particular conflict, which is part of the intelligence service’s duties.

good luck with that unreality, I guess you’re similarly convinced by your own internal press agent without much contradiction

What exactly are you disagreeing with?

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 12:43:33
From: transition
ID: 1885335
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


transition said:

Bubblecar said:

It’s not “propaganda”, it’s an assessment of what’s going on in this particular conflict, which is part of the intelligence service’s duties.

good luck with that unreality, I guess you’re similarly convinced by your own internal press agent without much contradiction

You’re an ignorant fool at times, let it be said.

there are worse things

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 12:46:06
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1885336
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Witty Rejoinder said:


transition said:

Bubblecar said:

It’s not “propaganda”, it’s an assessment of what’s going on in this particular conflict, which is part of the intelligence service’s duties.

good luck with that unreality, I guess you’re similarly convinced by your own internal press agent without much contradiction

What exactly are you disagreeing with?

He’s backing Putin and his disgusting fascist regime, purely because the rest of us are not.

But he’ll find a way to deny that and portray ignorant and cowardly fence-sitting as the “wise” option :)

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 12:46:56
From: transition
ID: 1885338
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


Witty Rejoinder said:

transition said:

good luck with that unreality, I guess you’re similarly convinced by your own internal press agent without much contradiction

What exactly are you disagreeing with?

He’s backing Putin and his disgusting fascist regime, purely because the rest of us are not.

But he’ll find a way to deny that and portray ignorant and cowardly fence-sitting as the “wise” option :)

nice try, you got anything else

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 12:48:14
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1885339
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

transition said:


Bubblecar said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

What exactly are you disagreeing with?

He’s backing Putin and his disgusting fascist regime, purely because the rest of us are not.

But he’ll find a way to deny that and portray ignorant and cowardly fence-sitting as the “wise” option :)

nice try, you got anything else

I’ll waste no further time on your efforts in this thread.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 12:51:25
From: transition
ID: 1885340
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


transition said:

Bubblecar said:

He’s backing Putin and his disgusting fascist regime, purely because the rest of us are not.

But he’ll find a way to deny that and portray ignorant and cowardly fence-sitting as the “wise” option :)

nice try, you got anything else

I’ll waste no further time on your efforts in this thread.

of course

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 12:53:27
From: Michael V
ID: 1885341
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Michael V said:


Michael V said:

transition said:

has nobody’s name on it, and reads like propaganda

It’s propaganda alright. I don’t think British Defence Intelligence is going to publicly announce all they think they know.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_Intelligence

Note their logo.

Defence Intelligence do their stuff daily on twitter. The ABC was re-publishing their tweets daily, but they’ve slowed down their Ukraine reporting.

Took a while, but here’s the tweet.

https://twitter.com/DefenceHQ/status/1527163546781483008

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 12:55:52
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1885343
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


And their assessment of the Russian command problems is realistically typical of situations in which the military are under the command of a dictator who has surrounded himself with yes-men.

He’ll issue impossible or impractical orders, they’ll say: “Yes Sir!” then delegate the orders to officers who also know they’re not achievable, with every stage of command then seeking someone or something else to blame when the operation fails.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 12:57:41
From: Michael V
ID: 1885346
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


Bubblecar said:

And their assessment of the Russian command problems is realistically typical of situations in which the military are under the command of a dictator who has surrounded himself with yes-men.

He’ll issue impossible or impractical orders, they’ll say: “Yes Sir!” then delegate the orders to officers who also know they’re not achievable, with every stage of command then seeking someone or something else to blame when the operation fails.


LOLOLOLOL

Brilliant!

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 13:06:51
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1885350
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

A little while back, i was was reading ‘The Romanovs’.

https://www.booktopia.com.au/the-romanovs-simon-sebag-montefiore/book/9781474600873.html

Apart from the fact that, outside of his genuine love for his family, Tsar Nicholas II was a monumental dickhead, there’s quite few parallels between the screw-up in Ukraine and the way that WW1 went for Russia.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 16:21:34
From: Michael V
ID: 1885374
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-05-20/captive-medics-bodycam-shows-firsthand-horror-of-mariupol/101085894

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-05-20/russian-soldier-asks-for-forgiveness-in-ukraine-war-crimes-trial/101083538

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 16:28:42
From: Michael V
ID: 1885377
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Hopefully this means these soldiers are treated reasonably. Well, not summarily executed, or executed after “trials”, anyway.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-05-20/fighters-who-defended-mariupol-steel-mill-registered-as-pows/101085800

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 17:20:03
From: transition
ID: 1885387
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Witty Rejoinder said:


transition said:

Bubblecar said:

It’s not “propaganda”, it’s an assessment of what’s going on in this particular conflict, which is part of the intelligence service’s duties.

good luck with that unreality, I guess you’re similarly convinced by your own internal press agent without much contradiction

What exactly are you disagreeing with?

wasn’t disagreeing, but had noticed a staggeringly large volume of commentary and speculation about failures, low morale, and declining morale, it occurred to me the commentary and speculation was intended to negatively impact morale of the foe

don’t mind me, i’m peculiar when it comes to distinguishing between what something apparently says and the intention of what is said, what it lends to

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 17:31:00
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1885388
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

transition said:


Witty Rejoinder said:

transition said:

good luck with that unreality, I guess you’re similarly convinced by your own internal press agent without much contradiction

What exactly are you disagreeing with?

wasn’t disagreeing, but had noticed a staggeringly large volume of commentary and speculation about failures, low morale, and declining morale, it occurred to me the commentary and speculation was intended to negatively impact morale of the foe

don’t mind me, i’m peculiar when it comes to distinguishing between what something apparently says and the intention of what is said, what it lends to

Have you been following the events in Ukraine with the war?

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 17:34:19
From: transition
ID: 1885390
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


transition said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

What exactly are you disagreeing with?

wasn’t disagreeing, but had noticed a staggeringly large volume of commentary and speculation about failures, low morale, and declining morale, it occurred to me the commentary and speculation was intended to negatively impact morale of the foe

don’t mind me, i’m peculiar when it comes to distinguishing between what something apparently says and the intention of what is said, what it lends to

Have you been following the events in Ukraine with the war?

depends what you mean by following

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 17:38:56
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1885391
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

transition said:


PermeateFree said:

transition said:

wasn’t disagreeing, but had noticed a staggeringly large volume of commentary and speculation about failures, low morale, and declining morale, it occurred to me the commentary and speculation was intended to negatively impact morale of the foe

don’t mind me, i’m peculiar when it comes to distinguishing between what something apparently says and the intention of what is said, what it lends to

Have you been following the events in Ukraine with the war?

depends what you mean by following

Well I didn’t mean walking behind a tank.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 17:45:56
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1885396
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

transition said:


Witty Rejoinder said:

transition said:

good luck with that unreality, I guess you’re similarly convinced by your own internal press agent without much contradiction

What exactly are you disagreeing with?

wasn’t disagreeing, but had noticed a staggeringly large volume of commentary and speculation about failures, low morale, and declining morale, it occurred to me the commentary and speculation was intended to negatively impact morale of the foe

don’t mind me, i’m peculiar when it comes to distinguishing between what something apparently says and the intention of what is said, what it lends to

So you think Russian soldiers (hardly any of whom can read English) will be looking up British Defence Intelligence reports on the internet, to tell them how they’re feeling?

And you’d noticed a “staggeringly large commentary” about failures but hadn’t noticed any actual failures?

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 17:50:10
From: transition
ID: 1885398
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


transition said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

What exactly are you disagreeing with?

wasn’t disagreeing, but had noticed a staggeringly large volume of commentary and speculation about failures, low morale, and declining morale, it occurred to me the commentary and speculation was intended to negatively impact morale of the foe

don’t mind me, i’m peculiar when it comes to distinguishing between what something apparently says and the intention of what is said, what it lends to

So you think Russian soldiers (hardly any of whom can read English) will be looking up British Defence Intelligence reports on the internet, to tell them how they’re feeling?

And you’d noticed a “staggeringly large commentary” about failures but hadn’t noticed any actual failures?

you’re back, master car, so soon, imagine my surprise

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 17:52:49
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1885405
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

transition said:


Bubblecar said:

transition said:

wasn’t disagreeing, but had noticed a staggeringly large volume of commentary and speculation about failures, low morale, and declining morale, it occurred to me the commentary and speculation was intended to negatively impact morale of the foe

don’t mind me, i’m peculiar when it comes to distinguishing between what something apparently says and the intention of what is said, what it lends to

So you think Russian soldiers (hardly any of whom can read English) will be looking up British Defence Intelligence reports on the internet, to tell them how they’re feeling?

And you’d noticed a “staggeringly large commentary” about failures but hadn’t noticed any actual failures?

you’re back, master car, so soon, imagine my surprise

I have family ties with Ukraine, this hideous violence inflicted on the people for no sane reason is necessarily of importance to me.

For it’s just a fucking laugh.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 17:53:18
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1885406
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


transition said:

Bubblecar said:

So you think Russian soldiers (hardly any of whom can read English) will be looking up British Defence Intelligence reports on the internet, to tell them how they’re feeling?

And you’d noticed a “staggeringly large commentary” about failures but hadn’t noticed any actual failures?

you’re back, master car, so soon, imagine my surprise

I have family ties with Ukraine, this hideous violence inflicted on the people for no sane reason is necessarily of importance to me.

For it’s just a fucking laugh.

= for you it’s just a fucking laugh.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 17:54:58
From: transition
ID: 1885408
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


transition said:

Bubblecar said:

So you think Russian soldiers (hardly any of whom can read English) will be looking up British Defence Intelligence reports on the internet, to tell them how they’re feeling?

And you’d noticed a “staggeringly large commentary” about failures but hadn’t noticed any actual failures?

you’re back, master car, so soon, imagine my surprise

I have family ties with Ukraine, this hideous violence inflicted on the people for no sane reason is necessarily of importance to me.

For it’s just a fucking laugh.

I find no joy in it at all, none

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 17:55:41
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1885409
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

transition said:


Bubblecar said:

transition said:

you’re back, master car, so soon, imagine my surprise

I have family ties with Ukraine, this hideous violence inflicted on the people for no sane reason is necessarily of importance to me.

For it’s just a fucking laugh.

I find no joy in it at all, none

Just another opportunity for pointless posing.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 17:57:54
From: transition
ID: 1885412
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


transition said:

Bubblecar said:

I have family ties with Ukraine, this hideous violence inflicted on the people for no sane reason is necessarily of importance to me.

For it’s just a fucking laugh.

I find no joy in it at all, none

Just another opportunity for pointless posing.

if want see it that way, that’s your business

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 18:00:11
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1885417
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

transition said:


Bubblecar said:

transition said:

I find no joy in it at all, none

Just another opportunity for pointless posing.

if want see it that way, that’s your business

You could try keeping out of a thread that’s here for people who really care about the issue.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 18:01:38
From: transition
ID: 1885418
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


transition said:

Bubblecar said:

Just another opportunity for pointless posing.

if want see it that way, that’s your business

You could try keeping out of a thread that’s here for people who really care about the issue.

mostly I do, saves getting all territorial you know

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 18:52:08
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1885449
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

transition said:


Bubblecar said:

transition said:

if want see it that way, that’s your business

You could try keeping out of a thread that’s here for people who really care about the issue.

mostly I do, saves getting all territorial you know

wait is everyone mollwollfumble now

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 18:58:55
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1885455
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:


transition said:

Bubblecar said:

You could try keeping out of a thread that’s here for people who really care about the issue.

mostly I do, saves getting all territorial you know

wait is everyone mollwollfumble now

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 19:02:05
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1885460
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:


transition said:

Bubblecar said:

You could try keeping out of a thread that’s here for people who really care about the issue.

mostly I do, saves getting all territorial you know

wait is everyone mollwollfumble now

I’m merely pointing out that some people are understandably haunted by this war, and find it more than irritating when jokers peep in and claim that Western media and governments are just feeding us dodgy propaganda.

Transition and moll of course have access to much more reliable information on which to base their judgments.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 19:06:33
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1885461
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:

SCIENCE said:

transition said:

mostly I do, saves getting all territorial you know

wait is everyone mollwollfumble now

I’m merely pointing out that some people are understandably haunted by this war, and find it more than irritating when jokers peep in and claim that Western media and governments are just feeding us dodgy propaganda.

Transition and moll of course have access to much more reliable information on which to base their judgments.

sorry we were referring to an earlier faux pas where mollwollfumble acted like another well known interlocutor and couldn’t find the thread simply by not looking but didn’t seem upset about it nevertheless but hey

while we agree the weight of evidence seems to be that ru are doing bad things in ua, we’re confident there’s plenty of propaganda and lying in the opposite direction, not making it a good thing in any way but just real

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 19:08:05
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1885462
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Anyway enough conflict for me for one day.

Apologies to transition if I was too harsh, but sometimes a mild growl is justified.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 19:08:24
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1885464
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


SCIENCE said:

transition said:

mostly I do, saves getting all territorial you know

wait is everyone mollwollfumble now

I’m merely pointing out that some people are understandably haunted by this war, and find it more than irritating when jokers peep in and claim that Western media and governments are just feeding us dodgy propaganda.

Transition and moll of course have access to much more reliable information on which to base their judgments.

Pravda.

It’s right there in the name.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 20:11:44
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1885533
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:

Bubblecar said:

SCIENCE said:

wait is everyone mollwollfumble now

I’m merely pointing out that some people are understandably haunted by this war, and find it more than irritating when jokers peep in and claim that Western media and governments are just feeding us dodgy propaganda.

Transition and moll of course have access to much more reliable information on which to base their judgments.

sorry we were referring to an earlier faux pas where mollwollfumble acted like another well known interlocutor and couldn’t find the thread simply by not looking but didn’t seem upset about it nevertheless but hey

while we agree the weight of evidence seems to be that ru are doing bad things in ua, we’re confident there’s plenty of propaganda and lying in the opposite direction, not making it a good thing in any way but just real

OK smarty, I gather that I am the other person who could not find the Ukraine thread. Well just for the record, nobody had posted in that thread for three days, which amounts to anywhere between 30 to 60 pages to hunt through to find the topic, something I was not prepared to waste my time doing.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 20:14:54
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1885536
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:

OK smarty, I gather that I am the other person who could not find the Ukraine thread. Well just for the record, nobody had posted in that thread for three days, which amounts to anywhere between 30 to 60 pages to hunt through to find the topic, something I was not prepared to waste my time doing.

It would be awfully convenient if the forum had some sort of search capacity for locating a thread etc.

But, we’re very lucky to have a forum at all.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 20:18:58
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1885539
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


PermeateFree said:

OK smarty, I gather that I am the other person who could not find the Ukraine thread. Well just for the record, nobody had posted in that thread for three days, which amounts to anywhere between 30 to 60 pages to hunt through to find the topic, something I was not prepared to waste my time doing.

It would be awfully convenient if the forum had some sort of search capacity for locating a thread etc.

But, we’re very lucky to have a forum at all.

Well it was not me doing the complaining. but apparently I broke some taboo that others do often without comment.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 20:20:34
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1885541
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:

Well it was not me doing the complaining. but apparently I broke some taboo that others do often without comment.

Life is not often fair, my son. We need to rise above these petty injustices.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 20:23:16
From: furious
ID: 1885543
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


PermeateFree said:

OK smarty, I gather that I am the other person who could not find the Ukraine thread. Well just for the record, nobody had posted in that thread for three days, which amounts to anywhere between 30 to 60 pages to hunt through to find the topic, something I was not prepared to waste my time doing.

It would be awfully convenient if the forum had some sort of search capacity for locating a thread etc.

But, we’re very lucky to have a forum at all.

Search away…

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 20:23:47
From: roughbarked
ID: 1885545
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


captain_spalding said:

PermeateFree said:

OK smarty, I gather that I am the other person who could not find the Ukraine thread. Well just for the record, nobody had posted in that thread for three days, which amounts to anywhere between 30 to 60 pages to hunt through to find the topic, something I was not prepared to waste my time doing.

It would be awfully convenient if the forum had some sort of search capacity for locating a thread etc.

But, we’re very lucky to have a forum at all.

Well it was not me doing the complaining. but apparently I broke some taboo that others do often without comment.

It is quite simple really.

If you are in a thread that you have found on say the Ukraine special operation, then you go to by topic and select the thread by right click and bookmark the thread. As an alternative to having to scroll all the way through the thread each time to get to the bottom, before you click on it when you see someone has made a comment in view by time oon the left of the window. Use the right click on that link to bookmark the latest comment. Do it regularly and we won’t have to listen to you whinging about not being able to find it..

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 20:24:08
From: furious
ID: 1885546
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Yeah, nah…

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 20:24:42
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1885547
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

furious said:


captain_spalding said:

PermeateFree said:

OK smarty, I gather that I am the other person who could not find the Ukraine thread. Well just for the record, nobody had posted in that thread for three days, which amounts to anywhere between 30 to 60 pages to hunt through to find the topic, something I was not prepared to waste my time doing.

It would be awfully convenient if the forum had some sort of search capacity for locating a thread etc.

But, we’re very lucky to have a forum at all.

Search away…

Great Caesar’s ghost!

What is this i see before me!

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 20:26:07
From: furious
ID: 1885549
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


furious said:

captain_spalding said:

It would be awfully convenient if the forum had some sort of search capacity for locating a thread etc.

But, we’re very lucky to have a forum at all.

Search away…

Great Caesar’s ghost!

What is this i see before me!

Thanks to the honourable dv…

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 20:27:19
From: roughbarked
ID: 1885551
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

furious said:


captain_spalding said:

furious said:

Search away…

Great Caesar’s ghost!

What is this i see before me!

Thanks to the honourable dv…

I gave my thanks a while ago but if you want them again, I’m happy to oblige.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 20:58:49
From: dv
ID: 1885560
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

furious said:


captain_spalding said:

furious said:

Search away…

Great Caesar’s ghost!

What is this i see before me!

Thanks to the honourable dv…

I’ve decided I’m going to update it once a month and put it near the start of the monthly chat thread so that people have an easy way of locating it.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 21:02:02
From: roughbarked
ID: 1885562
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


furious said:

captain_spalding said:

Great Caesar’s ghost!

What is this i see before me!

Thanks to the honourable dv…

I’ve decided I’m going to update it once a month and put it near the start of the monthly chat thread so that people have an easy way of locating it.

Yeah, like a catchup.

I for example generally use a bookmark like this, which is simply a post by me. https://tokyo3.org/forums/holiday/?main=https%3A//tokyo3.org/forums/holiday/posts/1799587/

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 21:17:46
From: dv
ID: 1885567
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:

OK smarty, I gather that I am the other person who could not find the Ukraine thread. Well just for the record, nobody had posted in that thread for three days, which amounts to anywhere between 30 to 60 pages to hunt through to find the topic, something I was not prepared to waste my time doing.

That isn’t true. As I pointed out at the time, there were several in that thread already in the day that you made your complaint, some of them only three hours before your post.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 21:19:59
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1885569
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


PermeateFree said:

OK smarty, I gather that I am the other person who could not find the Ukraine thread. Well just for the record, nobody had posted in that thread for three days, which amounts to anywhere between 30 to 60 pages to hunt through to find the topic, something I was not prepared to waste my time doing.

That isn’t true. As I pointed out at the time, there were several in that thread already in the day that you made your complaint, some of them only three hours before your post.

YOU ARE WRONG! Go and check, because I did.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 21:20:10
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1885571
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:

PermeateFree said:

OK smarty, I gather that I am the other person who could not find the Ukraine thread. Well just for the record, nobody had posted in that thread for three days, which amounts to anywhere between 30 to 60 pages to hunt through to find the topic, something I was not prepared to waste my time doing.

That isn’t true. As I pointed out at the time, there were several in that thread already in the day that you made your complaint, some of them only three hours before your post.

well all right we generally agree with dv on many matters but really there’s no need to stir, seems for the most part everyone’s been polite and civil and decent today so let’s all keep it friendly c’m‘on

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 21:21:11
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1885572
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

PermeateFree said:

OK smarty, I gather that I am the other person who could not find the Ukraine thread. Well just for the record, nobody had posted in that thread for three days, which amounts to anywhere between 30 to 60 pages to hunt through to find the topic, something I was not prepared to waste my time doing.

That isn’t true. As I pointed out at the time, there were several in that thread already in the day that you made your complaint, some of them only three hours before your post.

YOU ARE WRONG! Go and check, because I did.

It’s fine, everyone’s made their points, we’re happy to move on.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 21:21:32
From: furious
ID: 1885574
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


dv said:

PermeateFree said:

OK smarty, I gather that I am the other person who could not find the Ukraine thread. Well just for the record, nobody had posted in that thread for three days, which amounts to anywhere between 30 to 60 pages to hunt through to find the topic, something I was not prepared to waste my time doing.

That isn’t true. As I pointed out at the time, there were several in that thread already in the day that you made your complaint, some of them only three hours before your post.

YOU ARE WRONG! Go and check, because I did.

“something I was not prepared to waste my time doing.”

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 21:22:30
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1885576
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

That isn’t true. As I pointed out at the time, there were several in that thread already in the day that you made your complaint, some of them only three hours before your post.

YOU ARE WRONG! Go and check, because I did.

It’s fine, everyone’s made their points, we’re happy to move on.

Well it was you who brought it up in the first place.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 21:24:02
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1885577
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

furious said:


PermeateFree said:

dv said:

That isn’t true. As I pointed out at the time, there were several in that thread already in the day that you made your complaint, some of them only three hours before your post.

YOU ARE WRONG! Go and check, because I did.

“something I was not prepared to waste my time doing.”

furious, I don’t know you except you seem to be an annoying self-opinionated type of person.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 21:26:52
From: furious
ID: 1885580
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


furious said:

PermeateFree said:

YOU ARE WRONG! Go and check, because I did.

“something I was not prepared to waste my time doing.”

furious, I don’t know you except you seem to be an annoying self-opinionated type of person.

Just presented what you previously said, wasn’t my opinion, it was yours…

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 21:27:22
From: dv
ID: 1885581
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


dv said:

PermeateFree said:

OK smarty, I gather that I am the other person who could not find the Ukraine thread. Well just for the record, nobody had posted in that thread for three days, which amounts to anywhere between 30 to 60 pages to hunt through to find the topic, something I was not prepared to waste my time doing.

That isn’t true. As I pointed out at the time, there were several in that thread already in the day that you made your complaint, some of them only three hours before your post.

YOU ARE WRONG! Go and check, because I did.

Fucking hell, dude. lol

Why do you do this to yourself? It is all still there for anyone to check, including you.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 21:29:14
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1885582
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


PermeateFree said:

dv said:

That isn’t true. As I pointed out at the time, there were several in that thread already in the day that you made your complaint, some of them only three hours before your post.

YOU ARE WRONG! Go and check, because I did.

Fucking hell, dude. lol

Why do you do this to yourself? It is all still there for anyone to check, including you.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 21:32:32
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1885586
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


PermeateFree said:

dv said:

That isn’t true. As I pointed out at the time, there were several in that thread already in the day that you made your complaint, some of them only three hours before your post.

YOU ARE WRONG! Go and check, because I did.

Fucking hell, dude. lol

Why do you do this to yourself? It is all still there for anyone to check, including you.

I think PF is referring to the lack of comments in the original thread meaning it was so far back that he created the new thread. As to whether it was as long as three days this is all discoverable.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 21:34:04
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1885589
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


PermeateFree said:

dv said:

That isn’t true. As I pointed out at the time, there were several in that thread already in the day that you made your complaint, some of them only three hours before your post.

YOU ARE WRONG! Go and check, because I did.

Fucking hell, dude. lol

Why do you do this to yourself? It is all still there for anyone to check, including you.

Why don’t you fucking well listen and learn. I had started a separate thread on the Ukraine/Russian war and was posting in that, after which someone found the old thread (to which you refer) and I switched to it. GO AND CHECK, it is still there for anyone to check, including you!

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 21:40:07
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1885595
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

so who is playing the role of Ukraine in this little friendly banter

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 21:40:58
From: dv
ID: 1885598
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:


so who is playing the role of Ukraine in this little friendly banter

I’m Cisnistria

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 21:42:54
From: dv
ID: 1885600
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Well there’s nothing much wrong with starting a fresh thread periodically anyway just to keep the load size down so fair enough.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 21:51:05
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1885604
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


Well there’s nothing much wrong with starting a fresh thread periodically anyway just to keep the load size down so fair enough.

Well most seemed to think what I did was wrong, unless of course they made the same mistake as yourself and not considered my new topic on the Ukraine/Russian war, which had they read would have explained all.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 22:14:22
From: roughbarked
ID: 1885617
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


Well there’s nothing much wrong with starting a fresh thread periodically anyway just to keep the load size down so fair enough.

Agree but I simply pick a new book mark closest to recent posts once a week if the thread extends too much.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 22:15:37
From: roughbarked
ID: 1885618
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


dv said:

Well there’s nothing much wrong with starting a fresh thread periodically anyway just to keep the load size down so fair enough.

Well most seemed to think what I did was wrong, unless of course they made the same mistake as yourself and not considered my new topic on the Ukraine/Russian war, which had they read would have explained all.

We could have read it except you wasted your time whinging in this one. Which apparently you couldn’t find buut are still here whining. What happened to your thread then?

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 22:18:03
From: dv
ID: 1885621
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Some people here don’t like to use bookmarks, no doubt for religious reasons.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 22:20:08
From: furious
ID: 1885623
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


Some people here don’t like to use bookmarks, no doubt for religious reasons.

Hard to fold the corner of the page online…

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 22:22:53
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1885624
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

I mentioned this on the wrong thread. So will repeat it here.

America has won this war by annexing two new countries into the American Empire – Sweden and Finland.

In the next world war they won’t even be given the chance to be independent. Soon Sweden and Finland will have to send troops into the middle east, south America and Asia to support American troops as they f**k with other countries.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 22:24:47
From: roughbarked
ID: 1885626
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


Some people here don’t like to use bookmarks, no doubt for religious reasons.

Too farken hard.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 22:29:29
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1885629
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

mollwollfumble said:


I mentioned this on the wrong thread. So will repeat it here.

America has won this war by annexing two new countries into the American Empire – Sweden and Finland.

In the next world war they won’t even be given the chance to be independent. Soon Sweden and Finland will have to send troops into the middle east, south America and Asia to support American troops as they f**k with other countries.

FMD you’re a moron.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 22:31:05
From: sibeen
ID: 1885631
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Witty Rejoinder said:


mollwollfumble said:

I mentioned this on the wrong thread. So will repeat it here.

America has won this war by annexing two new countries into the American Empire – Sweden and Finland.

In the next world war they won’t even be given the chance to be independent. Soon Sweden and Finland will have to send troops into the middle east, south America and Asia to support American troops as they f**k with other countries.

FMD you’re a moron.

I think you really should put a comma after FMD.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 22:33:56
From: roughbarked
ID: 1885634
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

mollwollfumble said:


I mentioned this on the wrong thread. So will repeat it here.

America has won this war by annexing two new countries into the American Empire – Sweden and Finland.

In the next world war they won’t even be given the chance to be independent. Soon Sweden and Finland will have to send troops into the middle east, south America and Asia to support American troops as they f**k with other countries.

It was not America’s war to win.

This isn’t fluid dynamics. It is despot tripping off his head and killing people, his own people.
Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 22:34:51
From: roughbarked
ID: 1885637
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

sibeen said:


Witty Rejoinder said:

mollwollfumble said:

I mentioned this on the wrong thread. So will repeat it here.

America has won this war by annexing two new countries into the American Empire – Sweden and Finland.

In the next world war they won’t even be given the chance to be independent. Soon Sweden and Finland will have to send troops into the middle east, south America and Asia to support American troops as they f**k with other countries.

FMD you’re a moron.

I think you really should put a comma after FMD.

pedant.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 22:36:19
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1885641
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

mollwollfumble said:


I mentioned this on the wrong thread. So will repeat it here.

America has won this war by annexing two new countries into the American Empire – Sweden and Finland.

In the next world war they won’t even be given the chance to be independent. Soon Sweden and Finland will have to send troops into the middle east, south America and Asia to support American troops as they f**k with other countries.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 22:40:06
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1885644
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

roughbarked said:


PermeateFree said:

dv said:

Well there’s nothing much wrong with starting a fresh thread periodically anyway just to keep the load size down so fair enough.

Well most seemed to think what I did was wrong, unless of course they made the same mistake as yourself and not considered my new topic on the Ukraine/Russian war, which had they read would have explained all.

We could have read it except you wasted your time whinging in this one. Which apparently you couldn’t find buut are still here whining. What happened to your thread then?

You don’t even know what you are talking about, blame people who were innocently accused of something they never did. Why don’t you stop talking rubbish as is your want to do.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 22:41:46
From: roughbarked
ID: 1885646
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


roughbarked said:

PermeateFree said:

Well most seemed to think what I did was wrong, unless of course they made the same mistake as yourself and not considered my new topic on the Ukraine/Russian war, which had they read would have explained all.

We could have read it except you wasted your time whinging in this one. Which apparently you couldn’t find buut are still here whining. What happened to your thread then?

You don’t even know what you are talking about, blame people who were innocently accused of something they never did. Why don’t you stop talking rubbish as is your want to do.

I think you will find that it is yourself making up these arguments about nothing. Use the tools at hand.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 22:51:40
From: party_pants
ID: 1885647
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

mollwollfumble said:


I mentioned this on the wrong thread. So will repeat it here.

America has won this war by annexing two new countries into the American Empire – Sweden and Finland.

In the next world war they won’t even be given the chance to be independent. Soon Sweden and Finland will have to send troops into the middle east, south America and Asia to support American troops as they f**k with other countries.

Sweden and Finland are asking for membership. So: Volenti non fit injuria and all that.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 22:51:49
From: roughbarked
ID: 1885648
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

roughbarked said:


PermeateFree said:

roughbarked said:

We could have read it except you wasted your time whinging in this one. Which apparently you couldn’t find buut are still here whining. What happened to your thread then?

You don’t even know what you are talking about, blame people who were innocently accused of something they never did. Why don’t you stop talking rubbish as is your want to do.

I think you will find that it is yourself making up these arguments about nothing. Use the tools at hand.

• “15588 Ukraine vs Russia “: https://tokyo3.org/forums/holiday/topics/15588 31/01/2022 20:37:21 Witty Rejoinder
15760 Ukraine Fights Back 1/04/2022 16:00:41 Bubblecar
15638 Russia Invades Ukraine 23/02/2022 00:44:18 Bubblecar
15715 Only a madman would start a nuclear war 19/03/2022 16:26:53 PermeateFree

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 22:52:47
From: roughbarked
ID: 1885649
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

roughbarked said:


roughbarked said:

PermeateFree said:

You don’t even know what you are talking about, blame people who were innocently accused of something they never did. Why don’t you stop talking rubbish as is your want to do.

I think you will find that it is yourself making up these arguments about nothing. Use the tools at hand.

15588 Ukraine vs Russia 31/01/2022 20:37:21 Witty Rejoinder
15760 Ukraine Fights Back 1/04/2022 16:00:41 Bubblecar
15638 Russia Invades Ukraine 23/02/2022 00:44:18 Bubblecar
15715 Only a madman would start a nuclear war 19/03/2022 16:26:53 PermeateFree

Fixeded?

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 23:34:45
From: dv
ID: 1885670
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


dv said:

Well there’s nothing much wrong with starting a fresh thread periodically anyway just to keep the load size down so fair enough.

Well most seemed to think what I did was wrong, unless of course they made the same mistake as yourself and not considered my new topic on the Ukraine/Russian war, which had they read would have explained all.

Well they shouldn’t have had a go at you for that. People start new threads on existing topics all the time here.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 23:36:49
From: roughbarked
ID: 1885671
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

dv said:


PermeateFree said:

dv said:

Well there’s nothing much wrong with starting a fresh thread periodically anyway just to keep the load size down so fair enough.

Well most seemed to think what I did was wrong, unless of course they made the same mistake as yourself and not considered my new topic on the Ukraine/Russian war, which had they read would have explained all.

Well they shouldn’t have had a go at you for that. People start new threads on existing topics all the time here.

I never thought starting a new thread was wrong. I was only commenting on coming into another thread and making noise for no particular reason.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 23:48:15
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1885678
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

roughbarked said:


roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

I think you will find that it is yourself making up these arguments about nothing. Use the tools at hand.

15588 Ukraine vs Russia 31/01/2022 20:37:21 Witty Rejoinder
15760 Ukraine Fights Back 1/04/2022 16:00:41 Bubblecar
15638 Russia Invades Ukraine 23/02/2022 00:44:18 Bubblecar
15715 Only a madman would start a nuclear war 19/03/2022 16:26:53 PermeateFree

Fixeded?

They are not the threads I started and are in question. For your information dv’s list of topics ends in April, my thread started just after so it is not on his current list, but should be at the start of his revised list. So stop trying to be clever because you are not. If you are really interested in finding out the truth instead of making it up to suit yourself, scroll back about 20 or so pages, but don’t worry, we will come back tomorrow when you have the answer.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 23:51:02
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1885680
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

15588 Ukraine vs Russia 31/01/2022 20:37:21 Witty Rejoinder
15760 Ukraine Fights Back 1/04/2022 16:00:41 Bubblecar
15638 Russia Invades Ukraine 23/02/2022 00:44:18 Bubblecar
15715 Only a madman would start a nuclear war 19/03/2022 16:26:53 PermeateFree

Fixeded?

They are not the threads I started and are in question. For your information dv’s list of topics ends in April, my thread started just after so it is not on his current list, but should be at the start of his revised list. So stop trying to be clever because you are not. If you are really interested in finding out the truth instead of making it up to suit yourself, scroll back about 20 or so pages, but don’t worry, we will come back tomorrow when you have the answer.

“pages” should read days.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/05/2022 23:57:24
From: roughbarked
ID: 1885684
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

15588 Ukraine vs Russia 31/01/2022 20:37:21 Witty Rejoinder
15760 Ukraine Fights Back 1/04/2022 16:00:41 Bubblecar
15638 Russia Invades Ukraine 23/02/2022 00:44:18 Bubblecar
15715 Only a madman would start a nuclear war 19/03/2022 16:26:53 PermeateFree

Fixeded?

They are not the threads I started and are in question. For your information dv’s list of topics ends in April, my thread started just after so it is not on his current list, but should be at the start of his revised list. So stop trying to be clever because you are not. If you are really interested in finding out the truth instead of making it up to suit yourself, scroll back about 20 or so pages, but don’t worry, we will come back tomorrow when you have the answer.

Yes and it wasn’t twenty pages. https://tokyo3.org/forums/holiday/topics/15833/

As I said. Much ado about nothing.

Why not carry the argument on in this thread above?

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 00:29:15
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1885698
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

roughbarked said:


PermeateFree said:

roughbarked said:

Fixeded?

They are not the threads I started and are in question. For your information dv’s list of topics ends in April, my thread started just after so it is not on his current list, but should be at the start of his revised list. So stop trying to be clever because you are not. If you are really interested in finding out the truth instead of making it up to suit yourself, scroll back about 20 or so pages, but don’t worry, we will come back tomorrow when you have the answer.

Yes and it wasn’t twenty pages. https://tokyo3.org/forums/holiday/topics/15833/

As I said. Much ado about nothing.

Why not carry the argument on in this thread above?

I know it is a total waste of time trying to get you to understand anything without getting a ridiculously stupid response, as the above goes to prove. However you have successfully found my thread and the one in question. You will note the first date of posting, namely 1/05/2022 16:06:28, which is after dv’s gigantic list (so not recorded on it) and is a day before the first post after the three day break in the old thread

as posted by dv, which goes to prove everything I have said is correct and most of what you and others have said is incorrect. Now I hope closes the matter.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 00:31:56
From: roughbarked
ID: 1885700
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


roughbarked said:

PermeateFree said:

They are not the threads I started and are in question. For your information dv’s list of topics ends in April, my thread started just after so it is not on his current list, but should be at the start of his revised list. So stop trying to be clever because you are not. If you are really interested in finding out the truth instead of making it up to suit yourself, scroll back about 20 or so pages, but don’t worry, we will come back tomorrow when you have the answer.

Yes and it wasn’t twenty pages. https://tokyo3.org/forums/holiday/topics/15833/

As I said. Much ado about nothing.

Why not carry the argument on in this thread above?

I know it is a total waste of time trying to get you to understand anything without getting a ridiculously stupid response, as the above goes to prove. However you have successfully found my thread and the one in question. You will note the first date of posting, namely 1/05/2022 16:06:28, which is after dv’s gigantic list (so not recorded on it) and is a day before the first post after the three day break in the old thread

as posted by dv, which goes to prove everything I have said is correct and most of what you and others have said is incorrect. Now I hope closes the matter.

Yes and people responded in the said thread but you didn’t. However you have been banging on about it in this thread ever since.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 00:32:35
From: roughbarked
ID: 1885701
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

roughbarked said:


PermeateFree said:

roughbarked said:

Yes and it wasn’t twenty pages. https://tokyo3.org/forums/holiday/topics/15833/

As I said. Much ado about nothing.

Why not carry the argument on in this thread above?

I know it is a total waste of time trying to get you to understand anything without getting a ridiculously stupid response, as the above goes to prove. However you have successfully found my thread and the one in question. You will note the first date of posting, namely 1/05/2022 16:06:28, which is after dv’s gigantic list (so not recorded on it) and is a day before the first post after the three day break in the old thread

as posted by dv, which goes to prove everything I have said is correct and most of what you and others have said is incorrect. Now I hope closes the matter.

Yes and people responded in the said thread but you didn’t. However you have been banging on about it in this thread ever since.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 00:34:29
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1885705
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

roughbarked said:


PermeateFree said:

roughbarked said:

Yes and it wasn’t twenty pages. https://tokyo3.org/forums/holiday/topics/15833/

As I said. Much ado about nothing.

Why not carry the argument on in this thread above?

I know it is a total waste of time trying to get you to understand anything without getting a ridiculously stupid response, as the above goes to prove. However you have successfully found my thread and the one in question. You will note the first date of posting, namely 1/05/2022 16:06:28, which is after dv’s gigantic list (so not recorded on it) and is a day before the first post after the three day break in the old thread

as posted by dv, which goes to prove everything I have said is correct and most of what you and others have said is incorrect. Now I hope closes the matter.

Yes and people responded in the said thread but you didn’t. However you have been banging on about it in this thread ever since.

I knew it was a waste of time trying to discussing anything with you, so would you please do me a favour and kindly fuck off.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 00:36:36
From: roughbarked
ID: 1885706
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


roughbarked said:

PermeateFree said:

I know it is a total waste of time trying to get you to understand anything without getting a ridiculously stupid response, as the above goes to prove. However you have successfully found my thread and the one in question. You will note the first date of posting, namely 1/05/2022 16:06:28, which is after dv’s gigantic list (so not recorded on it) and is a day before the first post after the three day break in the old thread

as posted by dv, which goes to prove everything I have said is correct and most of what you and others have said is incorrect. Now I hope closes the matter.

Yes and people responded in the said thread but you didn’t. However you have been banging on about it in this thread ever since.

I knew it was a waste of time trying to discussing anything with you, so would you please do me a favour and kindly fuck off.

I’d be happy to discuss the issue with you but it appears to be a non-event that you keep banging on about. If you could actually elucidate upon what the proble is, maybe soome of the forum could possibly discuss it with you.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 00:38:46
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1885707
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

roughbarked said:


PermeateFree said:

roughbarked said:

Yes and people responded in the said thread but you didn’t. However you have been banging on about it in this thread ever since.

I knew it was a waste of time trying to discussing anything with you, so would you please do me a favour and kindly fuck off.

I’d be happy to discuss the issue with you but it appears to be a non-event that you keep banging on about. If you could actually elucidate upon what the proble is, maybe soome of the forum could possibly discuss it with you.

I DO NOT KEEP BANNING ON ABOUT YOU FUCKWIT, I am only trying to give an explanation to others who are bringing it up.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 00:39:18
From: sibeen
ID: 1885708
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


roughbarked said:

PermeateFree said:

I know it is a total waste of time trying to get you to understand anything without getting a ridiculously stupid response, as the above goes to prove. However you have successfully found my thread and the one in question. You will note the first date of posting, namely 1/05/2022 16:06:28, which is after dv’s gigantic list (so not recorded on it) and is a day before the first post after the three day break in the old thread

as posted by dv, which goes to prove everything I have said is correct and most of what you and others have said is incorrect. Now I hope closes the matter.

Yes and people responded in the said thread but you didn’t. However you have been banging on about it in this thread ever since.

I knew it was a waste of time trying to discussing anything with you, so would you please do me a favour and kindly fuck off.

Well…that was quite rude.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 00:46:26
From: roughbarked
ID: 1885709
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

sibeen said:


PermeateFree said:

roughbarked said:

Yes and people responded in the said thread but you didn’t. However you have been banging on about it in this thread ever since.

I knew it was a waste of time trying to discussing anything with you, so would you please do me a favour and kindly fuck off.

Well…that was quite rude.

I’m OK with people shouting at me. I just don’t get what the problem is. We are supposed to be talking about someone else’s war (special operation). Which is very serious and affecting us all. I don’t care which thread we talk about it in.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 00:48:14
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1885710
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

sibeen said:


PermeateFree said:

roughbarked said:

Yes and people responded in the said thread but you didn’t. However you have been banging on about it in this thread ever since.

I knew it was a waste of time trying to discussing anything with you, so would you please do me a favour and kindly fuck off.

Well…that was quite rude.

Yes a common response to this person from others in the forum. I would be only too happy for him not to post me on any subject, but I know that will not happen so I just get bloody annoyed per usual. And you too can be very rude, but of course that does not count.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 05:38:50
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1885715
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

we mean these pretty embarrassments are all a lot of nothing and never a war was started because of anything like it

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 05:50:18
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1885716
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:

You will note the first date of posting, namely 1/05/2022 16:06:28, which is after dv’s gigantic list (so not recorded on it) and is a day before the first post after

so you agree that “dv’s gigantic list” already existed so there was an easy way to find a thread, which any arsehole could have used if they hadn’t wanted to force their own thread into the mix

and you also agree that your days have a length of time equal to the interval between 1/05/2022 16:06:28 and 1/05/2022 21:18:42 so you are fully fucking off the planet

good

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 06:59:30
From: roughbarked
ID: 1885721
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:


we mean these pretty embarrassments are all a lot of nothing and never a war was started because of anything like it

Something like that.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 09:16:59
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1885736
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

roughbarked said:


SCIENCE said:

we mean these pretty embarrassments are all a lot of nothing and never a war was started because of anything like it

Something like that.

And then instead of realising you had fucked up, you keep pushing in the hope that the other side will eventually just give up.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 09:19:47
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1885738
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:


roughbarked said:

SCIENCE said:

we mean these pretty embarrassments are all a lot of nothing and never a war was started because of anything like it

Something like that.

And then instead of realising you had fucked up, you keep pushing in the hope that the other side will eventually just give up.

but Putin P……….. and Zel… Z… whatever, everyone else use the same alphabet

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 09:22:52
From: roughbarked
ID: 1885739
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:


roughbarked said:

SCIENCE said:

we mean these pretty embarrassments are all a lot of nothing and never a war was started because of anything like it

Something like that.

And then instead of realising you had fucked up, you keep pushing in the hope that the other side will eventually just give up.


Me ? It is PF who seems to have an issue.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 09:37:35
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1885752
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

I was listening to a podcast about drug abuse by the Nazis during WW2, right up to the Big A himself in Berlin, who was on an incredibly varied regime of hormones, vitamins, caffeine injections, amphetamines, opioids, you name it he was getting some of it. In fact, a lot of it.

A ‘pharmaceutical’ product called ‘Pervitin’ was absolutely integral to the prosecution of the blitzkrieg, and was freely available to members of the Wehrmacht, and hardly less so to the civilian population. It was methamphetamine, nothing less. Mostly as pills, but also in chocolate bars.

You want to march pretty much non-stop for three days, and then take part in a battle right away? Pervitin.

You want to pull four, five, maybe six shifts in row at the factory? Pervitin.

Continued meth use is just the thing to put you in a frame of mind to do terrible things without hesitation, the kinds of things which attract the names ‘atrocities’ and ‘war crimes’.

Which leads me to wonder just what the Russian army might be using to help keep its troops slugging away in Ukraine, and willing to e.g. tie up civilians so that they’re helpless, torture them, and then kill them.

(For more on the WW2 thing see the book ‘Blitzed: Drugs in Nazi Germany ‘ by Norman Ohler. I’ve read it. Ohler isn’t professional historian or pharma bloke, but it’s a wild read.)

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/29429893-blitzed

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 09:39:46
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1885755
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

roughbarked said:


Dark Orange said:

roughbarked said:

Something like that.

And then instead of realising you had fucked up, you keep pushing in the hope that the other side will eventually just give up.


Me ? It is PF who seems to have an issue.

No, not you.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 09:45:23
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1885761
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

“I was listening to a podcast about drug abuse by the Nazis during WW2, right up to the Big A himself in Berlin, who was on an incredibly varied regime of hormones, vitamins, caffeine injections, amphetamines, opioids, you name it he was getting some of it. In fact, a lot of it.”

Which matches what a neighbour was saying who lived in Austria during that time in history, in that there was a short lived good change in living standards and then a sharp decline in human tragedies and insaneness as Hitler slowly and surely went mad!

Initially people in that part of the world liked the changes in access to food , jobs etc as most people were starving in Europe and certainly in Germany and Austria and surrounding nations prior to his rise to a leader. To suddenly have food , job and financial opportunity after living through such scarceness of resources was a reprieve and then it all started to turn ugly and awful in every way.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 09:52:18
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1885767
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

monkey skipper said:

Which matches what a neighbour was saying who lived in Austria during that time in history, in that there was a short lived good change in living standards and then a sharp decline in human tragedies and insaneness as Hitler slowly and surely went mad!

When you learn about what Der Fuhrer was getting shot up with on pretty much a daily routine, you realise that the cumulative effects on his mental processes must have been huge.

Maybe he was mad. Maybe his brain was just so fried, especially after 1940-41, that he couldn’t have made a sensible decision in any case. Maybe both.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 09:58:41
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1885772
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


monkey skipper said:

Which matches what a neighbour was saying who lived in Austria during that time in history, in that there was a short lived good change in living standards and then a sharp decline in human tragedies and insaneness as Hitler slowly and surely went mad!

When you learn about what Der Fuhrer was getting shot up with on pretty much a daily routine, you realise that the cumulative effects on his mental processes must have been huge.

Maybe he was mad. Maybe his brain was just so fried, especially after 1940-41, that he couldn’t have made a sensible decision in any case. Maybe both.

My father’s opinion was that he just wanted to get into to power initially and did a deal with the socialists to get the numbers to get into power , part of the deal to get the numbers was to fracture the financial control during that period , which put the focus on some of the Jewish persons in the financial systems and/or holding wealth to be become prime targets. Which implies he started his dealings connecting with a political group with an an already established under current of disharmony in a nation facing internal issues around the distribution of wealth and well before the war started.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 10:01:28
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1885775
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

monkey skipper said:

My father’s opinion was that he just wanted to get into to power initially and did a deal with the socialists to get the numbers to get into power , part of the deal to get the numbers was to fracture the financial control during that period , which put the focus on some of the Jewish persons in the financial systems and/or holding wealth to be become prime targets. Which implies he started his dealings connecting with a political group with an an already established under current of disharmony in a nation facing internal issues around the distribution of wealth and well before the war started.

It took William L. Shirer a good couple of chapters to achieve a similar description of Hitler’s rise to control of and change of direction for the NSDAP in the 1918-1923 period.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 10:03:48
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1885777
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

monkey skipper said:


captain_spalding said:

monkey skipper said:

Which matches what a neighbour was saying who lived in Austria during that time in history, in that there was a short lived good change in living standards and then a sharp decline in human tragedies and insaneness as Hitler slowly and surely went mad!

When you learn about what Der Fuhrer was getting shot up with on pretty much a daily routine, you realise that the cumulative effects on his mental processes must have been huge.

Maybe he was mad. Maybe his brain was just so fried, especially after 1940-41, that he couldn’t have made a sensible decision in any case. Maybe both.

My father’s opinion was that he just wanted to get into to power initially and did a deal with the socialists to get the numbers to get into power , part of the deal to get the numbers was to fracture the financial control during that period , which put the focus on some of the Jewish persons in the financial systems and/or holding wealth to be become prime targets. Which implies he started his dealings connecting with a political group with an an already established under current of disharmony in a nation facing internal issues around the distribution of wealth and well before the war started.

Hitler was talking about invading the east to make German “Lebensraum” long before he came into power.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 10:06:05
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1885779
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:

Hitler was talking about invading the east to make German “Lebensraum” long before he came into power.

Yeah, it’s not like he was a nice bloke before he got the job and then went bananas.

He was a hate-filled delusional fruitcake for a very long time before that.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 10:06:21
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1885781
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


monkey skipper said:

captain_spalding said:

When you learn about what Der Fuhrer was getting shot up with on pretty much a daily routine, you realise that the cumulative effects on his mental processes must have been huge.

Maybe he was mad. Maybe his brain was just so fried, especially after 1940-41, that he couldn’t have made a sensible decision in any case. Maybe both.

My father’s opinion was that he just wanted to get into to power initially and did a deal with the socialists to get the numbers to get into power , part of the deal to get the numbers was to fracture the financial control during that period , which put the focus on some of the Jewish persons in the financial systems and/or holding wealth to be become prime targets. Which implies he started his dealings connecting with a political group with an an already established under current of disharmony in a nation facing internal issues around the distribution of wealth and well before the war started.

Hitler was talking about invading the east to make German “Lebensraum” long before he came into power.

I like those open plan houses with the big living room.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 10:08:07
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1885785
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


monkey skipper said:

captain_spalding said:

When you learn about what Der Fuhrer was getting shot up with on pretty much a daily routine, you realise that the cumulative effects on his mental processes must have been huge.

Maybe he was mad. Maybe his brain was just so fried, especially after 1940-41, that he couldn’t have made a sensible decision in any case. Maybe both.

My father’s opinion was that he just wanted to get into to power initially and did a deal with the socialists to get the numbers to get into power , part of the deal to get the numbers was to fracture the financial control during that period , which put the focus on some of the Jewish persons in the financial systems and/or holding wealth to be become prime targets. Which implies he started his dealings connecting with a political group with an an already established under current of disharmony in a nation facing internal issues around the distribution of wealth and well before the war started.

Hitler was talking about invading the east to make German “Lebensraum” long before he came into power.

To get into to power though , you do need the numbers and it makes sense he was sureing up alliances as he climbed the ladder.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 10:09:04
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1885786
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Peak Warming Man said:


Bubblecar said:

Hitler was talking about invading the east to make German “Lebensraum” long before he came into power.

I like those open plan houses with the big living room.
[/quote

Do you think that maybe he just wanted Scotty Cam and the crew from ‘The Block’ to come in and restyle his lounge room, but his memos got misinterpreted by his staff?

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 10:09:25
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1885787
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Bubblecar said:

Hitler was talking about invading the east to make German “Lebensraum” long before he came into power.

Yeah, it’s not like he was a nice bloke before he got the job and then went bananas.

He was a hate-filled delusional fruitcake for a very long time before that.

The people living there would say there was a shift into ravings as he went mad and there was a difference as time went along.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 10:10:23
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1885788
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

monkey skipper said:

To get into to power though , you do need the numbers and it makes sense he was sureing up alliances as he climbed the ladder.

Knocking a few down now and then, too, e,g, Ernst Röhm.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 10:11:18
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1885790
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


monkey skipper said:

To get into to power though , you do need the numbers and it makes sense he was sureing up alliances as he climbed the ladder.

Knocking a few down now and then, too, e,g, Ernst Röhm.

He was all about himself it seems

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 10:13:58
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1885791
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

monkey skipper said:

He was all about himself it seems

Funny how people like that get to be Fuhrer.

Or US President 2017-2021.

Or Australian PM 2018 – a bit later today, hopefully.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 10:14:54
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1885792
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

monkey skipper said:


Bubblecar said:

monkey skipper said:

My father’s opinion was that he just wanted to get into to power initially and did a deal with the socialists to get the numbers to get into power , part of the deal to get the numbers was to fracture the financial control during that period , which put the focus on some of the Jewish persons in the financial systems and/or holding wealth to be become prime targets. Which implies he started his dealings connecting with a political group with an an already established under current of disharmony in a nation facing internal issues around the distribution of wealth and well before the war started.

Hitler was talking about invading the east to make German “Lebensraum” long before he came into power.

To get into to power though , you do need the numbers and it makes sense he was sureing up alliances as he climbed the ladder.

Relevant:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rStL7niR7gs&ab_channel=CGPGrey

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 10:43:26
From: roughbarked
ID: 1885814
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


I was listening to a podcast about drug abuse by the Nazis during WW2, right up to the Big A himself in Berlin, who was on an incredibly varied regime of hormones, vitamins, caffeine injections, amphetamines, opioids, you name it he was getting some of it. In fact, a lot of it.

A ‘pharmaceutical’ product called ‘Pervitin’ was absolutely integral to the prosecution of the blitzkrieg, and was freely available to members of the Wehrmacht, and hardly less so to the civilian population. It was methamphetamine, nothing less. Mostly as pills, but also in chocolate bars.

You want to march pretty much non-stop for three days, and then take part in a battle right away? Pervitin.

You want to pull four, five, maybe six shifts in row at the factory? Pervitin.

Continued meth use is just the thing to put you in a frame of mind to do terrible things without hesitation, the kinds of things which attract the names ‘atrocities’ and ‘war crimes’.

Which leads me to wonder just what the Russian army might be using to help keep its troops slugging away in Ukraine, and willing to e.g. tie up civilians so that they’re helpless, torture them, and then kill them.

(For more on the WW2 thing see the book ‘Blitzed: Drugs in Nazi Germany ‘ by Norman Ohler. I’ve read it. Ohler isn’t professional historian or pharma bloke, but it’s a wild read.)

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/29429893-blitzed

The Americans also used a lot of it but they didn’t make up a name for it.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 10:48:05
From: roughbarked
ID: 1885823
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


monkey skipper said:

captain_spalding said:

When you learn about what Der Fuhrer was getting shot up with on pretty much a daily routine, you realise that the cumulative effects on his mental processes must have been huge.

Maybe he was mad. Maybe his brain was just so fried, especially after 1940-41, that he couldn’t have made a sensible decision in any case. Maybe both.

My father’s opinion was that he just wanted to get into to power initially and did a deal with the socialists to get the numbers to get into power , part of the deal to get the numbers was to fracture the financial control during that period , which put the focus on some of the Jewish persons in the financial systems and/or holding wealth to be become prime targets. Which implies he started his dealings connecting with a political group with an an already established under current of disharmony in a nation facing internal issues around the distribution of wealth and well before the war started.

Hitler was talking about invading the east to make German “Lebensraum” long before he came into power.

This is true. Hitler, like Putin wanted what he considered to be German territory back in the fatherland.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 10:48:29
From: roughbarked
ID: 1885824
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Bubblecar said:

Hitler was talking about invading the east to make German “Lebensraum” long before he came into power.

Yeah, it’s not like he was a nice bloke before he got the job and then went bananas.

He was a hate-filled delusional fruitcake for a very long time before that.

Probably much of his life.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 10:53:35
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1885826
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

roughbarked said:


captain_spalding said:

I was listening to a podcast about drug abuse by the Nazis during WW2, right up to the Big A himself in Berlin, who was on an incredibly varied regime of hormones, vitamins, caffeine injections, amphetamines, opioids, you name it he was getting some of it. In fact, a lot of it.

A ‘pharmaceutical’ product called ‘Pervitin’ was absolutely integral to the prosecution of the blitzkrieg, and was freely available to members of the Wehrmacht, and hardly less so to the civilian population. It was methamphetamine, nothing less. Mostly as pills, but also in chocolate bars.

You want to march pretty much non-stop for three days, and then take part in a battle right away? Pervitin.

You want to pull four, five, maybe six shifts in row at the factory? Pervitin.

Continued meth use is just the thing to put you in a frame of mind to do terrible things without hesitation, the kinds of things which attract the names ‘atrocities’ and ‘war crimes’.

Which leads me to wonder just what the Russian army might be using to help keep its troops slugging away in Ukraine, and willing to e.g. tie up civilians so that they’re helpless, torture them, and then kill them.

(For more on the WW2 thing see the book ‘Blitzed: Drugs in Nazi Germany ‘ by Norman Ohler. I’ve read it. Ohler isn’t professional historian or pharma bloke, but it’s a wild read.)

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/29429893-blitzed

The Americans also used a lot of it but they didn’t make up a name for it.

They used a lot of dextroamphetamine, which is stronger than benzedrine. I can testify to that. Really gives you the range.

They called them, generically, ‘pep pills’.

They Germans also made a lot of use of steroids, which gave rise to a whole lot of ‘roid rage. Another thing that reduced your inhibitions towards atrocities/war crimes.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 11:54:51
From: transition
ID: 1885874
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


I was listening to a podcast about drug abuse by the Nazis during WW2, right up to the Big A himself in Berlin, who was on an incredibly varied regime of hormones, vitamins, caffeine injections, amphetamines, opioids, you name it he was getting some of it. In fact, a lot of it.

A ‘pharmaceutical’ product called ‘Pervitin’ was absolutely integral to the prosecution of the blitzkrieg, and was freely available to members of the Wehrmacht, and hardly less so to the civilian population. It was methamphetamine, nothing less. Mostly as pills, but also in chocolate bars.

You want to march pretty much non-stop for three days, and then take part in a battle right away? Pervitin.

You want to pull four, five, maybe six shifts in row at the factory? Pervitin.

Continued meth use is just the thing to put you in a frame of mind to do terrible things without hesitation, the kinds of things which attract the names ‘atrocities’ and ‘war crimes’.

Which leads me to wonder just what the Russian army might be using to help keep its troops slugging away in Ukraine, and willing to e.g. tie up civilians so that they’re helpless, torture them, and then kill them.

(For more on the WW2 thing see the book ‘Blitzed: Drugs in Nazi Germany ‘ by Norman Ohler. I’ve read it. Ohler isn’t professional historian or pharma bloke, but it’s a wild read.)

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/29429893-blitzed

chemical enhancements well-penetrated civilian culture since then, if you invert your fascist notions to include something unrecognizable that evolved, even Gods like Elvis, it goes back a way, the cultural evolution cough, the progress cough

don’t mind my bad cough there, could be covid, perhaps mixed with flu and monkeypox, perhaps I caught the trifecta courtesy the globalists, the joy of course is that no matter where I land on the planet the social and economic landscape looks the same, even the vices are the same

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 13:00:33
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1885908
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Russia’s smart weapons may won’t be so smart any more:

https://www.pcmag.com/news/russia-picks-a-slow-chinese-x86-cpu-to-replace-intelamd-chips

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 13:04:44
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1885909
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Russia’s smart weapons may won’t be so smart any more:

https://www.pcmag.com/news/russia-picks-a-slow-chinese-x86-cpu-to-replace-intelamd-chips

As long as the target obliges by not moving, they’re in with half a chance.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 13:10:14
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1885912
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Spiny Norman said:


captain_spalding said:

Russia’s smart weapons may won’t be so smart any more:

https://www.pcmag.com/news/russia-picks-a-slow-chinese-x86-cpu-to-replace-intelamd-chips

As long as the target obliges by not moving, they’re in with half a chance.

Russian convoy jams are vogue right now.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 13:11:30
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1885913
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Also, we may now know why the Russians have been filching washing machines and such like:

https://www.pcmag.com/news/russia-is-using-chips-from-dishwashers-to-fix-its-tanks

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 13:12:41
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1885914
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Also, we may now know why the Russians have been filching washing machines and such like:

https://www.pcmag.com/news/russia-is-using-chips-from-dishwashers-to-fix-its-tanks

Seems unlikely.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 13:18:14
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1885916
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Spiny Norman said:


captain_spalding said:

Also, we may now know why the Russians have been filching washing machines and such like:

https://www.pcmag.com/news/russia-is-using-chips-from-dishwashers-to-fix-its-tanks

Seems unlikely.

Agreed. Simple looting is the more likely explanation for what the Russians in Ukraine are doing.

Which is not to say that, back in Russia, the repair facilities aren’t raiding the inventory of Harvey Normanski for bits and parts.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 13:25:33
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1885919
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Spiny Norman said:


captain_spalding said:

Also, we may now know why the Russians have been filching washing machines and such like:

https://www.pcmag.com/news/russia-is-using-chips-from-dishwashers-to-fix-its-tanks

Seems unlikely.

Considering the total number of all destroyed Russian tanks in Ukraine right now this could be very likely be part of the problem.

The Russians are having problems with their tanks.

They can blame dishwashers.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 13:26:10
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1885920
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

The Ukrainian Army Has More Tanks Now Than When The War Began—Because It Keeps Capturing Them From Russia
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2022/03/24/the-ukrainian-army-has-captured-enough-russian-tanks-to-make-good-all-its-own-losses-and-then-some/?sh=65fa68e7922c

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 13:28:14
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1885922
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Spiny Norman said:

captain_spalding said:

Also, we may now know why the Russians have been filching washing machines and such like:

https://www.pcmag.com/news/russia-is-using-chips-from-dishwashers-to-fix-its-tanks

Seems unlikely.

Agreed. Simple looting is the more likely explanation for what the Russians in Ukraine are doing.

Which is not to say that, back in Russia, the repair facilities aren’t raiding the inventory of Harvey Normanski for bits and parts.

Yeah.
I imagine a washing machine doesn’t have a great deal of any high-tech chips in it as they are a very simple device. The smarter ones will weigh the washing load (load cell of some sort) and a very basic controller chip that I cannot imagine would be of use in anything military. Maybe some of the old reliable 555 timer chips, but they are common in a fair few older machines.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 13:29:04
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1885924
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Tau.Neutrino said:


The Ukrainian Army Has More Tanks Now Than When The War Began—Because It Keeps Capturing Them From Russia
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2022/03/24/the-ukrainian-army-has-captured-enough-russian-tanks-to-make-good-all-its-own-losses-and-then-some/?sh=65fa68e7922c

If this continues at this rate they will soon have more tanks than Russia.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 13:29:20
From: party_pants
ID: 1885925
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Tau.Neutrino said:


The Ukrainian Army Has More Tanks Now Than When The War Began—Because It Keeps Capturing Them From Russia
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2022/03/24/the-ukrainian-army-has-captured-enough-russian-tanks-to-make-good-all-its-own-losses-and-then-some/?sh=65fa68e7922c

They’re not very good. The term “death-trap” springs to mind and is probably not too harsh an assessment.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 13:30:11
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1885926
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Tau.Neutrino said:

The Russians are having problems with their tanks.

They can blame dishwashers.

‘Tank 634, why are you falling behind the assault formation?’

‘Sir, the tank is stuck on the ‘extra rinse’ cycle!’

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 13:31:14
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1885928
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Tau.Neutrino said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

The Ukrainian Army Has More Tanks Now Than When The War Began—Because It Keeps Capturing Them From Russia
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2022/03/24/the-ukrainian-army-has-captured-enough-russian-tanks-to-make-good-all-its-own-losses-and-then-some/?sh=65fa68e7922c

If this continues at this rate they will soon have more tanks than Russia.

It would be more economical for both sides if the tanks were simply delivered straight to the Ukrainian depots from the Russian factory.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 13:33:03
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1885930
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

party_pants said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

The Ukrainian Army Has More Tanks Now Than When The War Began—Because It Keeps Capturing Them From Russia
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2022/03/24/the-ukrainian-army-has-captured-enough-russian-tanks-to-make-good-all-its-own-losses-and-then-some/?sh=65fa68e7922c

They’re not very good. The term “death-trap” springs to mind and is probably not too harsh an assessment.

Yeah, if you were a Russian tank commander you would want a remote controlled one.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 13:34:09
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1885931
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

The Ukrainian Army Has More Tanks Now Than When The War Began—Because It Keeps Capturing Them From Russia
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2022/03/24/the-ukrainian-army-has-captured-enough-russian-tanks-to-make-good-all-its-own-losses-and-then-some/?sh=65fa68e7922c

If this continues at this rate they will soon have more tanks than Russia.

It would be more economical for both sides if the tanks were simply delivered straight to the Ukrainian depots from the Russian factory.

They wont get bogged down in swamps either.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 13:36:02
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1885932
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

The Ukrainian Army Has More Tanks Now Than When The War Began—Because It Keeps Capturing Them From Russia
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2022/03/24/the-ukrainian-army-has-captured-enough-russian-tanks-to-make-good-all-its-own-losses-and-then-some/?sh=65fa68e7922c

If this continues at this rate they will soon have more tanks than Russia.

It would be more economical for both sides if the tanks were simply delivered straight to the Ukrainian depots from the Russian factory.

Ukraine’s ambassador tells U.N. the ‘demilitarization of Russia is well under way’

https://theweek.com/russo-ukrainian-war/1011932/ukraines-ambassador-tells-un-the-demilitarization-of-russia-is-well

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 13:39:13
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1885933
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Tau.Neutrino said:


The Ukrainian Army Has More Tanks Now Than When The War Began—Because It Keeps Capturing Them From Russia
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2022/03/24/the-ukrainian-army-has-captured-enough-russian-tanks-to-make-good-all-its-own-losses-and-then-some/?sh=65fa68e7922c

Note that the article is 2 months old.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 13:40:24
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1885934
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:


captain_spalding said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

If this continues at this rate they will soon have more tanks than Russia.

It would be more economical for both sides if the tanks were simply delivered straight to the Ukrainian depots from the Russian factory.

Ukraine’s ambassador tells U.N. the ‘demilitarization of Russia is well under way’

https://theweek.com/russo-ukrainian-war/1011932/ukraines-ambassador-tells-un-the-demilitarization-of-russia-is-well

And with Russians stealing their own tank parts demilitarization could happen sooner.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 13:42:00
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1885935
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Tau.Neutrino said:


party_pants said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

The Ukrainian Army Has More Tanks Now Than When The War Began—Because It Keeps Capturing Them From Russia
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2022/03/24/the-ukrainian-army-has-captured-enough-russian-tanks-to-make-good-all-its-own-losses-and-then-some/?sh=65fa68e7922c

They’re not very good. The term “death-trap” springs to mind and is probably not too harsh an assessment.

Yeah, if you were a Russian tank commander you would want a remote controlled one.

T-72s were built to be smaller, lower-profile targets. This meant that a whole lot of good things, like protection and venting for the magazines, had to be left out.

By comparison with modern Western tanks, they are a lot smaller and lower, but they’re also tinderboxes by comparison. What might bounce off a Western tank, or maybe knock out some systems, will light up a T-72 just like that.

However, this fits in with long-established Soviet/Russian military philosophy which is that they need not be very ‘good’, as long as there’s an awful lot of them.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 13:54:35
From: party_pants
ID: 1885936
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

party_pants said:

They’re not very good. The term “death-trap” springs to mind and is probably not too harsh an assessment.

Yeah, if you were a Russian tank commander you would want a remote controlled one.

T-72s were built to be smaller, lower-profile targets. This meant that a whole lot of good things, like protection and venting for the magazines, had to be left out.

By comparison with modern Western tanks, they are a lot smaller and lower, but they’re also tinderboxes by comparison. What might bounce off a Western tank, or maybe knock out some systems, will light up a T-72 just like that.

However, this fits in with long-established Soviet/Russian military philosophy which is that they need not be very ‘good’, as long as there’s an awful lot of them.

It’s the ammunition storage. The Soviet tanks dispensed with one crew member, the loader, and substituted a mechanised auto-loading system instead. This got them smaller and lower profile. But at the cost of having the ammunition deep inside the turret underneath the commander and gunner. Any penetration of the turret armour is likely to set off the ammunition on the carousel.

Low profile and smaller isn’t much of an advantage these days, with sophisticated targeting computers and smart/guided missiles they are just as likely to be hit. Bigger seems to be better.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 13:56:42
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1885937
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


However, this fits in with long-established Soviet/Russian military philosophy which is that they need not be very ‘good’, as long as there’s an awful lot of them.

That philosophy has worked well for millennia – But with the latest gear small numbers really can take on much larger numbers and beat them.
For example the F-35 can designate something like 60 airborne targets, and through a datalink fire missiles that are hanging off the wings of plain old F-15’s & the like to shoot all 60 down. The F-15’s don’t need to be using their radar at all, it’s all done in the F-35.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 14:03:08
From: Tamb
ID: 1885939
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

party_pants said:

They’re not very good. The term “death-trap” springs to mind and is probably not too harsh an assessment.

Yeah, if you were a Russian tank commander you would want a remote controlled one.

T-72s were built to be smaller, lower-profile targets. This meant that a whole lot of good things, like protection and venting for the magazines, had to be left out.

By comparison with modern Western tanks, they are a lot smaller and lower, but they’re also tinderboxes by comparison. What might bounce off a Western tank, or maybe knock out some systems, will light up a T-72 just like that.

However, this fits in with long-established Soviet/Russian military philosophy which is that they need not be very ‘good’, as long as there’s an awful lot of them.


Reminds me of the WWII German slang name for British tanks. “Tommy cookers”

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 14:04:48
From: Bogsnorkler
ID: 1885941
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

The Russians are having problems with their tanks.

They can blame dishwashers.

‘Tank 634, why are you falling behind the assault formation?’

‘Sir, the tank is stuck on the ‘extra rinse’ cycle!’

starts playing the ride of the valkyries. oh, rinse cycle…

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 14:06:12
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1885943
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Tamb said:


captain_spalding said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Yeah, if you were a Russian tank commander you would want a remote controlled one.

T-72s were built to be smaller, lower-profile targets. This meant that a whole lot of good things, like protection and venting for the magazines, had to be left out.

By comparison with modern Western tanks, they are a lot smaller and lower, but they’re also tinderboxes by comparison. What might bounce off a Western tank, or maybe knock out some systems, will light up a T-72 just like that.

However, this fits in with long-established Soviet/Russian military philosophy which is that they need not be very ‘good’, as long as there’s an awful lot of them.


Reminds me of the WWII German slang name for British tanks. “Tommy cookers”

The US Sherman tanks were called a Ronson.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 14:07:06
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1885945
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:


PermeateFree said:

You will note the first date of posting, namely 1/05/2022 16:06:28, which is after dv’s gigantic list (so not recorded on it) and is a day before the first post after

so you agree that “dv’s gigantic list” already existed so there was an easy way to find a thread, which any arsehole could have used if they hadn’t wanted to force their own thread into the mix

and you also agree that your days have a length of time equal to the interval between 1/05/2022 16:06:28 and 1/05/2022 21:18:42 so you are fully fucking off the planet

good

Science, you claim to be a science teacher, yet you make assumptions regardless of facts and then present dates that bear no relation to the truth. I would think you would be incapable of teaching the principles of science at primary school level.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 14:07:47
From: Tamb
ID: 1885946
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Peak Warming Man said:


Tamb said:

captain_spalding said:

T-72s were built to be smaller, lower-profile targets. This meant that a whole lot of good things, like protection and venting for the magazines, had to be left out.

By comparison with modern Western tanks, they are a lot smaller and lower, but they’re also tinderboxes by comparison. What might bounce off a Western tank, or maybe knock out some systems, will light up a T-72 just like that.

However, this fits in with long-established Soviet/Russian military philosophy which is that they need not be very ‘good’, as long as there’s an awful lot of them.


Reminds me of the WWII German slang name for British tanks. “Tommy cookers”

The US Sherman tanks were called a Ronson.


Prolly related to the Bunsen.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 14:11:18
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1885948
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Peak Warming Man said:


Tamb said:

captain_spalding said:

T-72s were built to be smaller, lower-profile targets. This meant that a whole lot of good things, like protection and venting for the magazines, had to be left out.

By comparison with modern Western tanks, they are a lot smaller and lower, but they’re also tinderboxes by comparison. What might bounce off a Western tank, or maybe knock out some systems, will light up a T-72 just like that.

However, this fits in with long-established Soviet/Russian military philosophy which is that they need not be very ‘good’, as long as there’s an awful lot of them.


Reminds me of the WWII German slang name for British tanks. “Tommy cookers”

The US Sherman tanks were called a Ronson.

The German Panthers were just as bad, and would often catch fire without being hit while traversing uneven ground, just due to petrol sloshing over their engines.

The British captured one and tried to put it through various tests, but had to abandon the task when it kept self-igniting.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 14:11:41
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1885949
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

roughbarked said:


Dark Orange said:

roughbarked said:

Something like that.

And then instead of realising you had fucked up, you keep pushing in the hope that the other side will eventually just give up.


Me ? It is PF who seems to have an issue.

rolls eyes and mutters under breath.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 14:16:48
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1885950
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:


roughbarked said:

Dark Orange said:

And then instead of realising you had fucked up, you keep pushing in the hope that the other side will eventually just give up.


Me ? It is PF who seems to have an issue.

No, not you.

It was not me that fucked up DO, just those who cannot see the facts and are obviously like you.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 14:21:33
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1885953
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Spiny Norman said:


captain_spalding said:

However, this fits in with long-established Soviet/Russian military philosophy which is that they need not be very ‘good’, as long as there’s an awful lot of them.

That philosophy has worked well for millennia – But with the latest gear small numbers really can take on much larger numbers and beat them.
For example the F-35 can designate something like 60 airborne targets, and through a datalink fire missiles that are hanging off the wings of plain old F-15’s & the like to shoot all 60 down. The F-15’s don’t need to be using their radar at all, it’s all done in the F-35.

The Ukes have developed a similar ground based system called GIS Arta.

https://veteranweb.asn.au/news/uber-style-tech-helped-wipe-out-almost-entire-russian-battalion/

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 14:25:49
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1885956
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:


Spiny Norman said:

captain_spalding said:

However, this fits in with long-established Soviet/Russian military philosophy which is that they need not be very ‘good’, as long as there’s an awful lot of them.

That philosophy has worked well for millennia – But with the latest gear small numbers really can take on much larger numbers and beat them.
For example the F-35 can designate something like 60 airborne targets, and through a datalink fire missiles that are hanging off the wings of plain old F-15’s & the like to shoot all 60 down. The F-15’s don’t need to be using their radar at all, it’s all done in the F-35.

The Ukes have developed a similar ground based system called GIS Arta.

https://veteranweb.asn.au/news/uber-style-tech-helped-wipe-out-almost-entire-russian-battalion/

That is pretty darn cool.
(If you’re not on the receiving end)

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 14:37:44
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1885958
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:

SCIENCE said:

PermeateFree said:

You will note the first date of posting, namely 1/05/2022 16:06:28, which is after dv’s gigantic list (so not recorded on it) and is a day before the first post after

so you agree that “dv’s gigantic list” already existed so there was an easy way to find a thread, which any arsehole could have used if they hadn’t wanted to force their own thread into the mix

and you also agree that your days have a length of time equal to the interval between 1/05/2022 16:06:28 and 1/05/2022 21:18:42 so you are fully fucking off the planet

good

Science, you claim to be a science teacher, yet you make assumptions regardless of facts and then present dates that bear no relation to the truth. I would think you would be incapable of teaching the principles of science at primary school level.

you’re right, we presented dates that you mentioned, so we leave it to the source to vouch for their truth value

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 14:37:46
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1885959
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:

SCIENCE said:

PermeateFree said:

You will note the first date of posting, namely 1/05/2022 16:06:28, which is after dv’s gigantic list (so not recorded on it) and is a day before the first post after

so you agree that “dv’s gigantic list” already existed so there was an easy way to find a thread, which any arsehole could have used if they hadn’t wanted to force their own thread into the mix

and you also agree that your days have a length of time equal to the interval between 1/05/2022 16:06:28 and 1/05/2022 21:18:42 so you are fully fucking off the planet

good

Science, you claim to be a science teacher, yet you make assumptions regardless of facts and then present dates that bear no relation to the truth. I would think you would be incapable of teaching the principles of science at primary school level.

you’re right, we presented dates that you mentioned, so we leave it to the source to vouch for their truth value

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 14:43:13
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1885961
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:

PermeateFree said:

SCIENCE said:

so you agree that “dv’s gigantic list” already existed so there was an easy way to find a thread, which any arsehole could have used if they hadn’t wanted to force their own thread into the mix

and you also agree that your days have a length of time equal to the interval between 1/05/2022 16:06:28 and 1/05/2022 21:18:42 so you are fully fucking off the planet

good

Science, you claim to be a science teacher, yet you make assumptions regardless of facts and then present dates that bear no relation to the truth. I would think you would be incapable of teaching the principles of science at primary school level.

you’re right, we presented dates that you mentioned, so we leave it to the source to vouch for their truth value

Well I posted a copy of what dv produced i.e. the actual posts in question, on which the first post clearly states the 2/5/22. So don’t you feel a little foolish with no wriggle room?

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 14:43:47
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1885962
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

https://hindustannewshub.com/russia-ukraine-news/zelensky-told-about-pilots-who-delivered-food-and-water-to-azovstal/

President Volodymyr Zelenskyi spoke about Ukrainian pilots who risked their lives to deliver food and water to the Azovstal plant in Mariupol and pick up the wounded.

This was reported by RBC-Ukraine with reference to the words of Volodymyr Zelensky on the national telethon.

“A very large number of our pilots died, unfortunately. Absolutely heroic people who knew that it was difficult to fly to Azovstal and bring them medicine, food, water, pick up the bodies of the wounded, it is almost impossible. All this happened. No one could officially comment. “, – said Zelensky.

The President said that there were no air corridors to the Azovstal plant due to the strong Russian air defense.

“Helicopter pilots for many weeks, knowing that 90% do not return… Imagine what these people did. They flew there to give them food, water, weapons and take away the wounded. We lost many pilots. They are absolutely heroic,” Zelensky said.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 14:44:28
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1885963
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:

PermeateFree said:

SCIENCE said:

so you agree that “dv’s gigantic list” already existed so there was an easy way to find a thread, which any arsehole could have used if they hadn’t wanted to force their own thread into the mix

and you also agree that your days have a length of time equal to the interval between 1/05/2022 16:06:28 and 1/05/2022 21:18:42 so you are fully fucking off the planet

good

Science, you claim to be a science teacher, yet you make assumptions regardless of facts and then present dates that bear no relation to the truth. I would think you would be incapable of teaching the principles of science at primary school level.

you’re right, we presented dates that you mentioned, so we leave it to the source to vouch for their truth value

Please see my last post for explanation, unless you want to dig your hole deeper.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 14:47:00
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1885964
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


SCIENCE said:

PermeateFree said:

Science, you claim to be a science teacher, yet you make assumptions regardless of facts and then present dates that bear no relation to the truth. I would think you would be incapable of teaching the principles of science at primary school level.

you’re right, we presented dates that you mentioned, so we leave it to the source to vouch for their truth value

Please see my last post for explanation, unless you want to dig your hole deeper.

ENOUGH CRAP, PLEASE RESPECT THE THREAD TOPIC

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 14:51:03
From: Ian
ID: 1885966
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


PermeateFree said:

SCIENCE said:

you’re right, we presented dates that you mentioned, so we leave it to the source to vouch for their truth value

Please see my last post for explanation, unless you want to dig your hole deeper.

ENOUGH CRAP, PLEASE RESPECT THE THREAD TOPIC

Probly time for a new thread anyway :)
Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 14:53:13
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1885967
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Bubblecar said:


PermeateFree said:

SCIENCE said:

you’re right, we presented dates that you mentioned, so we leave it to the source to vouch for their truth value

Please see my last post for explanation, unless you want to dig your hole deeper.

ENOUGH CRAP, PLEASE RESPECT THE THREAD TOPIC

Well sorry for trying to correct the lies and distortions aimed in my direction. Perhaps you should direct your ire at the people making them, then there would be no need for me to protect myself.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 15:19:41
From: roughbarked
ID: 1885977
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


Dark Orange said:

roughbarked said:

Me ? It is PF who seems to have an issue.

No, not you.

It was not me that fucked up DO, just those who cannot see the facts and are obviously like you.

What facts ?That there is a war happening in Ukraine? or something else?

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 16:28:07
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1886013
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


SCIENCE said:

PermeateFree said:

Science, you claim to be a science teacher, yet you make assumptions regardless of facts and then present dates that bear no relation to the truth. I would think you would be incapable of teaching the principles of science at primary school level.

you’re right, we presented dates that you mentioned, so we leave it to the source to vouch for their truth value

Well I posted a copy of what dv produced i.e. the actual posts in question, on which the first post clearly states the 2/5/22. So don’t you feel a little foolish with no wriggle room?

good so you stand by your claim that there were no posts between 1/05/2022 16:06:28 and 2/5/22, meaning you can believe what you want to believe

but yes we apologise for foolishly double posting may the gods have mercy on us for refreshing the server

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 16:38:25
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1886019
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:


PermeateFree said:

SCIENCE said:

you’re right, we presented dates that you mentioned, so we leave it to the source to vouch for their truth value

Well I posted a copy of what dv produced i.e. the actual posts in question, on which the first post clearly states the 2/5/22. So don’t you feel a little foolish with no wriggle room?

good so you stand by your claim that there were no posts between 1/05/2022 16:06:28 and 2/5/22, meaning you can believe what you want to believe

but yes we apologise for foolishly double posting may the gods have mercy on us for refreshing the server

You are such a stupid person, for gods sake go away.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 16:41:27
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1886020
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:

SCIENCE said:

PermeateFree said:

Well I posted a copy of what dv produced i.e. the actual posts in question, on which the first post clearly states the 2/5/22. So don’t you feel a little foolish with no wriggle room?

good so you stand by your claim that there were no posts between 1/05/2022 16:06:28 and 2/5/22, meaning you can believe what you want to believe

but yes we apologise for foolishly double posting may the gods have mercy on us for refreshing the server

You are such a stupid person, for gods sake go away.

we also apologise for our inability to come up with witty attacks against the others we converse with, as opposed to being able to challenge their claims on the evidential merit of those claims

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 16:47:18
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1886023
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:


PermeateFree said:

SCIENCE said:

good so you stand by your claim that there were no posts between 1/05/2022 16:06:28 and 2/5/22, meaning you can believe what you want to believe

but yes we apologise for foolishly double posting may the gods have mercy on us for refreshing the server

You are such a stupid person, for gods sake go away.

we also apologise for our inability to come up with witty attacks against the others we converse with, as opposed to being able to challenge their claims on the evidential merit of those claims

Besides being stupid, what else is the matter with you, are you crazy too? I have absolutely no interest in discussing anything with you because you lack a logical mindset. There is just no way of getting through to you, as I am met only by stupid statements that bear little relationship to the facts. Now please go a lie on you mat and BE QUIET!

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 16:59:13
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1886031
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:

SCIENCE said:

PermeateFree said:

You are such a stupid person, for gods sake go away.

we also apologise for our inability to come up with witty attacks against the others we converse with, as opposed to being able to challenge their claims on the evidential merit of those claims

Besides being stupid, what else is the matter with you, are you crazy too? I have absolutely no interest in discussing anything with you because you lack a logical mindset. There is just no way of getting through to you, as I am met only by stupid statements that bear little relationship to the facts. Now please go a lie on you mat and BE QUIET!

we apologise again for our inability to come up with witty attacks against the others we converse with, as opposed to being able to challenge their claims on the evidential merit of those claims

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 17:19:23
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1886057
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

ABC News:

‘Russia confirms it has stopped gas exports to Finland
Gazprom demands European countries pay for Russian gas supplies in roubles because of sanctions imposed over Moscow’s invasion of Ukraine, but Finland refuses to do so.’

Russia will hurt itself here, too.

Apart from losing the revenue from Finland, it means that there’s no chance at all, in the short term, of Finland buying roubles to pay for the gas, which will further devalue the rouble.

Longer term, Russia is hoping that Finland will buckle under, and agree to buy roubles to pay for the gas, to help stabilise the value of the rouble.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 17:25:11
From: roughbarked
ID: 1886063
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


ABC News:

‘Russia confirms it has stopped gas exports to Finland
Gazprom demands European countries pay for Russian gas supplies in roubles because of sanctions imposed over Moscow’s invasion of Ukraine, but Finland refuses to do so.’

Russia will hurt itself here, too.

Apart from losing the revenue from Finland, it means that there’s no chance at all, in the short term, of Finland buying roubles to pay for the gas, which will further devalue the rouble.

Longer term, Russia is hoping that Finland will buckle under, and agree to buy roubles to pay for the gas, to help stabilise the value of the rouble.

Didn’t Finland say that this is not in the original contract? This is why they refuse to break the contract to pay in roubles?

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 17:35:46
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1886070
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

SCIENCE said:

PermeateFree said:

SCIENCE said:

we also apologise for our inability to come up with witty attacks against the others we converse with, as opposed to being able to challenge their claims on the evidential merit of those claims

Besides being stupid, what else is the matter with you, are you crazy too? I have absolutely no interest in discussing anything with you because you lack a logical mindset. There is just no way of getting through to you, as I am met only by stupid statements that bear little relationship to the facts. Now please go a lie on you mat and BE QUIET!

we apologise again for our inability to come up with witty attacks against the others we converse with, as opposed to being able to challenge their claims on the evidential merit of those claims

LOL you don’t give regardless of how wrong you are. I have answered and explained everything in recent posts, but you seem to lack the ability to understand. I can only say, go back and try again.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 17:37:35
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1886072
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:


SCIENCE said:

PermeateFree said:

Besides being stupid, what else is the matter with you, are you crazy too? I have absolutely no interest in discussing anything with you because you lack a logical mindset. There is just no way of getting through to you, as I am met only by stupid statements that bear little relationship to the facts. Now please go a lie on you mat and BE QUIET!

we apologise again for our inability to come up with witty attacks against the others we converse with, as opposed to being able to challenge their claims on the evidential merit of those claims

LOL you don’t give regardless of how wrong you are. I have answered and explained everything in recent posts, but you seem to lack the ability to understand. I can only say, go back and try again.

Can we possibly start a ‘Ukraine bitchfight’ thread for this?

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 17:40:27
From: Ian
ID: 1886074
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


PermeateFree said:

SCIENCE said:

we apologise again for our inability to come up with witty attacks against the others we converse with, as opposed to being able to challenge their claims on the evidential merit of those claims

LOL you don’t give regardless of how wrong you are. I have answered and explained everything in recent posts, but you seem to lack the ability to understand. I can only say, go back and try again.

Can we possibly start a ‘Ukraine bitchfight’ thread for this?

Meh.. It’s the forum way

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 17:44:52
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1886077
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Ian said:


captain_spalding said:

PermeateFree said:

LOL you don’t give regardless of how wrong you are. I have answered and explained everything in recent posts, but you seem to lack the ability to understand. I can only say, go back and try again.

Can we possibly start a ‘Ukraine bitchfight’ thread for this?

Meh.. It’s the forum way

slips into Japanese samurai movie mode

Yes. I am sorry. I had forgotten the code of my caste. Please forgive me.

bows from kneeling position

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 17:53:18
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1886085
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


PermeateFree said:

SCIENCE said:

we apologise again for our inability to come up with witty attacks against the others we converse with, as opposed to being able to challenge their claims on the evidential merit of those claims

LOL you don’t give regardless of how wrong you are. I have answered and explained everything in recent posts, but you seem to lack the ability to understand. I can only say, go back and try again.

Can we possibly start a ‘Ukraine bitchfight’ thread for this?

I’m sorry but I am only responding, I am not the initiator.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/05/2022 19:16:29
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1886133
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

PermeateFree said:

Ian said:

captain_spalding said:

PermeateFree said:

LOL you don’t give regardless of how wrong you are. I have answered and explained everything in recent posts, but you seem to lack the ability to understand. I can only say, go back and try again.

Can we possibly start a ‘Ukraine bitchfight’ thread for this?

Meh.. It’s the forum way

I’m sorry but I am only responding, I am not the initiator.

wait is that from the same person who started the thread

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Date: 18/07/2022 18:05:21
From: Michael V
ID: 1910350
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

https://kyivindependent.com/national/zelensky-fires-prosecutor-general-security-service-chief

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Date: 18/07/2022 18:23:57
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1910352
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Michael V said:


https://kyivindependent.com/national/zelensky-fires-prosecutor-general-security-service-chief

Collaborators.

In the past, the the term ‘fire’ has had worse connotations for those who co-operated with the enemy.

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Date: 18/07/2022 19:14:34
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1910359
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Michael V said:

https://kyivindependent.com/national/zelensky-fires-prosecutor-general-security-service-chief

Collaborators.

In the past, the the term ‘fire’ has had worse connotations for those who co-operated with the enemy.


Surely we could find some forgiveness in our hearts and take them all as refugees and transfer them somewhere where they can do no harm – like our submarine programme ?

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Date: 18/07/2022 19:51:03
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1910369
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

I Once Supported Putin. Now I Know the Truth.
Anastasiia Carrier believed Russian propaganda — until she moved to America and became a journalist.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/07/15/i-once-supported-putin-now-i-know-the-truth-00031740?

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Date: 18/07/2022 20:09:07
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1910375
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Witty Rejoinder said:


I Once Supported Putin. Now I Know the Truth.
Anastasiia Carrier believed Russian propaganda — until she moved to America and became a journalist.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/07/15/i-once-supported-putin-now-i-know-the-truth-00031740?

Jeebers, when you have to go to America to discover truth…

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Date: 18/07/2022 20:14:51
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1910378
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Witty Rejoinder said:

I Once Supported Putin. Now I Know the Truth.
Anastasiia Carrier believed Russian propaganda — until she moved to America and became a journalist.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/07/15/i-once-supported-putin-now-i-know-the-truth-00031740?

Jeebers, when you have to go to America to discover truth…

LOL

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Date: 18/07/2022 20:46:13
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1910393
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Peak Warming Man said:


captain_spalding said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

I Once Supported Putin. Now I Know the Truth.
Anastasiia Carrier believed Russian propaganda — until she moved to America and became a journalist.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/07/15/i-once-supported-putin-now-i-know-the-truth-00031740?

Jeebers, when you have to go to America to discover truth…

LOL

discover truth and lots of love ah wegedit

Reply Quote

Date: 18/07/2022 20:58:44
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1910403
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Witty Rejoinder said:


I Once Supported Putin. Now I Know the Truth.
Anastasiia Carrier believed Russian propaganda — until she moved to America and became a journalist.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/07/15/i-once-supported-putin-now-i-know-the-truth-00031740?


TWA flight 800

Reply Quote

Date: 19/07/2022 13:47:58
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1910615
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Russia fights back against Russia:

Russia Accidentally Shoots Down Their Own $36M Su-34 Bomber, Ukraine Claims

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-shoots-su-34-bomber-luhansk-ukraine-claims-1725524

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Date: 19/07/2022 14:14:32
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1910623
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Russia fights back against Russia:

Russia Accidentally Shoots Down Their Own $36M Su-34 Bomber, Ukraine Claims

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-shoots-su-34-bomber-luhansk-ukraine-claims-1725524

Ukraine did similar a month ago.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/07/2022 14:19:29
From: sibeen
ID: 1910625
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Dark Orange said:


captain_spalding said:

Russia fights back against Russia:

Russia Accidentally Shoots Down Their Own $36M Su-34 Bomber, Ukraine Claims

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-shoots-su-34-bomber-luhansk-ukraine-claims-1725524

Ukraine did similar a month ago.

I didn’t think that the Ukraine had any Su-34 Bombers.





































I’ll get me coat.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/07/2022 14:26:48
From: Michael V
ID: 1910627
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Russia fights back against Russia:

Russia Accidentally Shoots Down Their Own $36M Su-34 Bomber, Ukraine Claims

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-shoots-su-34-bomber-luhansk-ukraine-claims-1725524

Excellent news. This needs to be continued.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/07/2022 14:35:41
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1910628
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Russia fights back against Russia:

Russia Accidentally Shoots Down Their Own $36M Su-34 Bomber, Ukraine Claims

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-shoots-su-34-bomber-luhansk-ukraine-claims-1725524

Amusingly, the aircraft that they label an Su-34 is actually an Su-57.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/07/2022 14:37:50
From: Woodie
ID: 1910629
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Spiny Norman said:

Amusingly, the aircraft that they label an Su-34 is actually an Su-57.

Well there ya have it. Any wonder they shot it down if it had the wrong label on it.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/07/2022 14:57:35
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1910632
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

Woodie said:


Spiny Norman said:

Amusingly, the aircraft that they label an Su-34 is actually an Su-57.

Well there ya have it. Any wonder they shot it down if it had the wrong label on it.

They probably thought it was a Malaysian Airlines flight.

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Date: 19/07/2022 15:52:54
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1910646
Subject: re: Ukraine Fights Back

captain_spalding said:


Woodie said:

Spiny Norman said:

Amusingly, the aircraft that they label an Su-34 is actually an Su-57.

Well there ya have it. Any wonder they shot it down if it had the wrong label on it.

They probably thought it was a Malaysian Airlines flight.

They didn’t read the label.

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